From Rugajon at aol.com Wed May 3 09:08:20 2000 From: Rugajon at aol.com (Rugajon at aol.com) Date: Wed May 3 09:08:20 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] add me to the English list Message-ID: <68.32510f6.26417eba@aol.com> From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Wed May 3 14:30:28 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Wed May 3 14:30:28 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <20000503183016.86479.qmail@hotmail.com> George, Thanks for your message. But, keep this mind: though I do believe there is a lot of senseless crime and violence in Kosovo, not ALL of the violence is undeserved. I saw known war criminals walking the streets a few days after the NATO bombings ending. For those who have done wrong, I can not condemn whatever form of justice is doled out. We all know how little the international community will ever do about them. Jennifer From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Wed May 3 14:43:12 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Wed May 3 14:43:12 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <20000503184302.32624.qmail@hotmail.com> George, Have you ever been to Kosovo? How much time did you spend there? Be careful about talking about "ignorant immigrants." I can almost guarantee that someone probably thought that about your ancestors at some point. If anyone has the right to complain about immigrants, which I don't think anyone does, it would be me. My family was in the US since before it was the US. They fought in the revolutionary war, and won the civil war. 99% of Americans descend from immigrants. We should remember this more often. Have you ever been in a war? Have you ever lived in a third world country? Have you ever slept in a refugee camp? I have. The vast majority of immigrants don't sit in their nice little apartments and think "Gee. I think I'll go to America and get on welfare so I never have to work." For most, it's a question of survival. They don't want to leave their homes, but they have no choice. Never forget what refugees have done for the US. Einstein, Kissinger, . . . Beside, US citizens are good enough at being parasites of the system. If we wanted everyone to be like Americans, we should have anticipated it. Jennifer From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Wed May 3 14:55:57 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Wed May 3 14:55:57 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Ousting Milosevic References: <20000503184302.32624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20000503185550.80543.qmail@hotmail.com> George, Two potential problems with ousting Milosevic. 1. If you want to bring about a truly democratic society, you have to vote him out. It is questionable whether this would happen. Even in a fair election. Though he does not have total support in Serbia, he does have more support than any other single candidate. Even if the West doesn't like him, if they want democracy, they will have to respect the will of the Serbian voters. 2. Even if you do oust Milosevic, who is there to replace him? No matter how much the world hates Milosevic, there is no ideal "democratic" candidate by Western standards. Yugoslavia can never become truly democratic unless the processes are free from interference. Both inside AND out. Jennifer From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Wed May 3 15:02:20 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Wed May 3 15:02:20 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance References: <20000503184302.32624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20000503190209.11463.qmail@hotmail.com> Can anyone suggest an Albanian teacher in Shkup? From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Wed May 3 15:33:44 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Wed May 3 15:33:44 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Ousting Milosevic Message-ID: <015201bfb546$982409a0$26aaf880@xyz.uic.edu> >Yugoslavia can never become truly democratic unless the processes are free >from interference. Both inside AND out. I think that most of the western democracies were created just that way: outside (American) interference, (in fact a foreign occupation); Americans occupied Western Europe after WW2 (particularly nazi Germany) and today we have a rich, democratic, and powerful Germany and European Union -- thanks to outside interference at the beginning; We all agree that allowing for "free-from-interference" processes, or allowing Russians to do what they wished in Europe after WW2 would be a great mistake. My suggestion is that allowing for "free-from-interference" processes, or allowing Russians to do what they wish with Serbia these days is a mistake as well. From burimh at hotmail.com Wed May 3 18:10:35 2000 From: burimh at hotmail.com (Burim Hana) Date: Wed May 3 18:10:35 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance Message-ID: <20000503221024.94335.qmail@hotmail.com> Can you be a bit more precise? What is he/she needed for, how long...? burim >From: "Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis" >Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com >To: >Subject: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance >Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:58:39 +0200 > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > >Can anyone suggest an Albanian teacher in Shkup? > > >_______________________________________________________ >Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Wed May 3 19:19:07 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Wed May 3 19:19:07 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance References: <20000503221024.94335.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <20000503231854.52019.qmail@hotmail.com> I need lessons starting on a very basic level, preferably three or four times a week. I need spoken and written Albanian. I prefer colloquial Albanian for speaking. At this point, I'm looking at about eight months, minus about one month for holidays. I know some of the very basics, but my goal is working knowledge before the end of the year. Hope that helps a bit. Jennifer From GLor103235 at aol.com Thu May 4 09:04:05 2000 From: GLor103235 at aol.com (GLor103235 at aol.com) Date: Thu May 4 09:04:05 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Re: [Prishtina-E] Message-ID: <92.45d003f.2642cf21@aol.com> unsuscribe please From h-rengier at gmx.de Thu May 4 09:46:34 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Thu May 4 09:46:34 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] unsubscribe please References: <92.45d003f.2642cf21@aol.com> Message-ID: <28822.957447991@www4.gmx.net> Unsubscribe me from the discussion please -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From h-rengier at gmx.de Thu May 4 10:05:46 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Thu May 4 10:05:46 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Ousting Milosevic References: <20000503185550.80543.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <7532.957449142@www4.gmx.net> The problem is certainly not Melosevic and how to remove or eliminate him from power, but the whole Serbian nation who should admitt the the injustice they imposed on the Kosovo Albanians as well as the Bosnians. This kind of arguements how to remove the Devil from power, is quite pathetic, for the main question lies in the Serbs themself who still do not feel guilty about the hanious crime they have committed against humanity. The leader of the Serb nation mignt go someday, but what will remain the racist attitude of the Serb within the Serb nation. Nevertheless, as I mingled with the Albanians, I noticed the same extreme which can leed us to nothing but a visious circle. I believe it is about high time all parties speak themself out and leave the epedemic named nationalism and over exaggerating patriotism behind in oder to come to a peaceful remedy. Hany Zein -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From shhima at yahoo.com Thu May 4 12:16:22 2000 From: shhima at yahoo.com (Shemsi Hima) Date: Thu May 4 12:16:22 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance Message-ID: <20000504161606.29728.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com> --- Burim Hana wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Can you be a bit more precise? What is he/she needed > for, how long...? > burim > What would an Akbanian treacher be needed for, Burim? lessons in egyptology - not! hihihihihihi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From burimh at hotmail.com Thu May 4 14:35:45 2000 From: burimh at hotmail.com (Burim Hana) Date: Thu May 4 14:35:45 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance Message-ID: <20000504183538.36734.qmail@hotmail.com> Shemsi, probably for Akbanian, which the newest branch of egyptology... >From: Shemsi Hima >Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com >To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com >Subject: Re: [Prishtina-E] Request for assistance >Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:16:06 -0700 (PDT) > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > >--- Burim Hana wrote: > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > Can you be a bit more precise? What is he/she needed > > for, how long...? > > burim > > >What would an Akbanian treacher be needed for, Burim? >lessons in egyptology - not! >hihihihihihi > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________________ >Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From juniku at hotmail.com Fri May 5 00:10:53 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Fri May 5 00:10:53 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Greece is second on US list for terrorism Message-ID: <20000505041045.69138.qmail@hotmail.com> >From: "Nikoll A Mirakaj" >To: "a" , "t" >Subject: [alb-information] Greece is second on US list for terrorism >Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:41:49 -0700 > >THE TIMES (London) >May 4 2000 > >Greece is second on US list for >terrorism > >FROM JAMES PRINGLE IN ATHENS > >GREECE reacted angrily yesterday to a report that >ranked it second to Colombia for anti-American terrorist >attacks in 1999. > >The US State department report names the November 17 >group, which has been active for 25 years but has never >had a member arrested. In 1975 it assassinated the top >CIA official in Greece, Robert Welch, and since then has >killed 22 people and injured 70. The dead include four >American officials and one British, along with Greek >industrialists. > >Last year a rocket-propelled grenade exploded in the >German embassy in Athens, in the next room to the >ambassador. The attack, a week after a similar one on the >Dutch ambassador, came at the start of Nato's bombing >of Yugoslavia over Kosovo. A majority of Greeks identify >with the Serbs, with whom they share the Orthodox >religion. > >The US State Department spends more on diplomatic >security in Athens, the capital of a Nato ally, than >anywhere else in the world. Western diplomats speak of a >"culture of impunity" in Athens. > >The State Department report, Patterns of Global >Terrorism, blames the problem on the "absence of strong >public government leadership and initiatives to improve >police capabilities". > >It is believed that November 17 has close links with a >left-wing sector of the ruling Panhellic Socialist >Movement, Pasok. Old hardline leftists feel that attacks >against "capitalist targets" are justified, in spite of Greece's >ever-closer integration into Western Europe. > >Yesterday a leading newspaper, Kathimerini, said the US >report was "openly aggressive and unreal". "A >demonstrator launching a Molotov cocktail is legally >responsible for his actions, but he is not a terrorist," it said. >Kathimerini noted that Greece had a problem with the >authorities' failure to break up November 17, "but this is >far from justifying Washington accusing the present and >previous government of inertia, tardiness and reluctance to >fight terrorism". >Poll - Was NATO"s intervention worthed? >Go to http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Kosovo/ and vote "YES"! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From iliriana at usa.net Fri May 5 09:36:30 2000 From: iliriana at usa.net (Iliriana Mushkolaj) Date: Fri May 5 09:36:30 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] FWD: Presentation of Prime Minister of Albania at Harvard University on May 8th [Virus checked] Message-ID: <20000505133627.21986.qmail@nw178.netaddress.usa.net> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "ALBANIA 2001" Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:09:07 -0400 This message is being sent by Mark Kosmo of Albania 2001, on behalf of Dritan Prifti from the Harvard Kennedy School in order to reach as many people as possible in the Boston area. We appreciate your help in getting the word out (both within and outside the Albanian Community) on this event since we would like a strong showing of the Albanian community in the Boston/Cambridge/Worcester area. It is the first time EVER that an Albanian Prime Minister has spoken at Harvard, and, I believe possibly the first time ever at any major US university. So, it is an opportunity to make a good impression in a prestigious and important setting. Regardless of your opinions for Albanian politics, we hope that Albanian-Americans born in the USA, and new emigres from Albania, Kosova, and other parts of the Balkans will come to the presentation at Harvard on May 8th. The room holds 700 people, so please pass the word along to your relatives and friends (including non-Albanian ones who might be interested) since we want to fill the room as much as possible. I am sure that some of us (in fine Albanian fashion) will also informally go out for a coffee or drink to socialize after the presentation, too, for those of you who need an extra incentive to come!!! An announcement is also attached in Microsoft Word, so that it can be printed and posted if you wish to do this in certain locations in church, school, work, or wherever. Thank You, Mark Kosmo Albanian Prime Minister, Mr. Ilir Meta, and Albanian Socialist Party Chairman, Mr. Fatos Nano, have been invited to speak at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University on political and economic developments in Albania and the Balkans. The event will be hosted at the Kennedy School of Government, ARCO FORUM, Littauer Building, 79 JFK Street, Cambridge, MA 02138. The date of the event is Monday May 8, 2000 and the time will be 6PM. Attendance is free and open to the public. I would encourage all of you to attend the event. It will offer an opportunity for questions and answers, as well as an informal exchange of ideas. This visit is another effort on the part of the government of Albania to make Albania known to the international community, make the regional issues better understood by the community, and gather further support for regional stability, peace, and reconstruction. Opinions will be offered on the future status of Kosovo, plans for national reconciliation, stability pact for the Balkans, etc. I hope you will all be able to attend and support the goal of making Albania and its issues more known to the area. I am attaching a flier which you can post (where you feel it is appropriate) for others to note the event, and would also appreciate it if you could forward this e-mail. Thank you very much DRITAN PRIFTI -- ALBANIA 2001...................................................................ALBANIA 2001 Suite #417.....................................................................Rruga Asim Vokshi 160 Commonwealth Avenue........................................................Pallati #141 Boston, MA 02116...............................................................Tirana, Albania Telephone: 781-843-1056.......................................................Telephone: 355-42-40842 Telephone: 617-262-6665.......................................................Telephone: 355-42-39748 Fax: 617-262-2340.............................................................Fax: 355-42-39748 E-Mail: alb2001 at beld.net......................................................E-Mail: alb2001 at icc.al.eu.org ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From george33030 at yahoo.com Fri May 5 09:36:39 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Fri May 5 09:36:39 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000504234226.25549.qmail@web4505.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Jennifer, Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan seems to be irritated because even though I'm better at reading Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am at somewhat understanding what some Albanians say when I hear them talking, but am not yet good in speaking their language), at the moment, I have no choice but to convey my thoughts in English. However, I strongly suspect that his threats to expell me from the Albanian-language forum has more to do with my saying things he and some of his followers or fellow Albanians don't want to understand, than the fact that I don't write my e-mail in Albanian. So be it! --George __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From etrit at alb-net.com Fri May 5 09:42:01 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Fri May 5 09:42:01 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer In-Reply-To: <20000504234226.25549.qmail@web4505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi George, Dardan's message was of a purely technical nature, i.e. we created an additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since many people requested it. Thus please feel free to express your thoughts in English in this list. As long as there is no obscene language used, anything is accepted (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). Later, Etrit Prishtina-e Listowner. On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Dear Jennifer, > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan seems to > be irritated because even though I'm better at reading > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am at > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say when I > hear them talking, but am not yet good in speaking > their language), at the moment, I have no choice but > to convey my thoughts in English. > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to expell > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to do > with my saying things he and some of his followers or > fellow Albanians don't want to understand, than the > fact that I don't write my e-mail in Albanian. > So be it! > --George > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > From dardan at prishtina.com Fri May 5 15:32:37 2000 From: dardan at prishtina.com (Dardan Blaku) Date: Fri May 5 15:32:37 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] FWD: Return of refugees Message-ID: <200005051537.AA11862444@prishtina.com> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 21:21:01 +0200 Plans for return of Serb refugees are making. I think, that Albanian side should take advantage of this to promote the return of Albanian refugees in northern Mitrovica. A great mistake would be done if Albanian will agree with that plans without negotiating a similar concession from the Serbian side. The international community ask from the Albanian side to prove its declared commitment to multiethnic Kosova by making return of Serbs possible. Of course, Serbs also have right for return, but multiethnicity is possible only if both sides support it. Serbs are speaking in favour of multiethnic Kosova and Albanian side should put the Serbs into the position, where this declared commitment could be tested. And Serbs will demonstrate such their commitment by allowing Albanians to return in to northern Mitrovica. Of course, it's clear that Serbs are against multiethnic Kosova (multiethnic Kosova means for them Kosova emptied from Albanians) and that they don't consent to return of Albanians. But in this case, the international community will see that Serbs follow the idea of Serbian and not multiethnic Kosova. The responsibility for non-return of refugees will then fall on them. Serbs announce that they are going to organise large demonstration to point out to the world on Serb question in Kosova. Albanians have not to allow that Serbs will get the image of victims in Kosova. The world must know that there are still Albanians in Kosova, whom are denied return to their homes by Serbs. I suggest that Albanians also hold their demonstrations for return to northern Mitrovica before the bridge on Ibar. Albanian side must insist that returns of Albanians and Serbs take place at the same time. Albanians in northern Mitrovica had left their homes before Serbs did so. Serbs are displaced from the NATO arrival, whereas Albanians left their homes during the bombing and before that. For this reason, Albanians should return before the Serbs, or at least simultaneously with them. It's unacceptable, that Albanians who first became refugees, would return to their homes last. Serbs represent themselves as adherents of multiethnic Kosova, trying to get legitimacy in the international community to retake Kosova. By undermining the process of two-way return, it would be clear that such their commitment is false. The international community would know, that they want Serbian Kosova without Albanians. In this way, they would forfeit the legitimacy for retake Kosova. In this way, the international community will be more willing to accept an independent Kosova. Serbs in co-operation with some circles in the international community are preparing so called pilot projects for return of return of Serbs in villages in western Kosova (Istok, Klina and Peja municipalities). Albanians should demand that the return of Serbs in one village is combined with the return of Albanians in one street or quarter in northern Mitrovica. Serbs are seeking to KFOR protection. Albanians have the same right to demand KFOR protection for Albanians returnees in northern Mitrovica. Serbs propose to KFOR to close the area where Serbs will return forming so called "Serbian security area". Albanians should for their part demand similar extension of so called "confidence zone" from Ibar northward as Albanians will be returning. Serbs will certainly assert that the return of Albanians to northern Mitrovica is unworkable, since their flats and houses are already occupied by Serbian refugees from other parts of Kosova. On the other hands they will state that the return of Serbs will not require such move, since their houses and villages are burnt and unpopulated. Albanians should offer to Serbs to burn flats they usurped in northern Mitrovica before leave it. It's a matter of fact that Albanians by burning Serb houses not appropriating them, made return of Serbs possible. On the other hand, Serbs have left Albanian homes intact in order to usurp them and to prevent return of Albanians. The return of Albanians in northern Mitrovica will require also the return of Serbs, who are occupying Albanian homes, to their former homes in other parts of Kosova. In any case, Albanians should make the return of those Serbs possible by vacating their homes if they are currently occupied. However, Serbs occupying Albanian flats in northern Mitrovica certainly won't don't to return in their original homes (experiences from Shows show that Serbs don't leave occupied houses even if their former habitations are freed up). Serbian leadership in northern Mitrovica also don't insist on their return. Only those Serbs who left Kosova are to return. It's obvious that Serbs don't insist on their return for humanitarian reasons (the return of people to their homes), but for re-colonisation of Kosova. Some statements of their leaders confirm this. Vladan Batic told on 4.4 on Radio Free Europe that he had said international representatives the return of Serbs is necessary in order to Serbian sovereignty and territorial integrity could be re-established. Oliver Ivanovic told Serb refugees in Kraljevo: "Serbia will be present in Kosova so much as the number of Serbs will be living there."(Danas, 21.4.). The conditioning of Serbian return to Kosova by return of Albanians in northern Mitrovica would put pressure on international community to finally start to solve the problem of Mitrovica's division. What the international community is doing in Mitrovica in fact consolidates the division in town. The international community intends to break the division by investing in economy. This will further strengthen an unacceptable status-quo in town. European Union as administrator of Mostar in Bosnia was investing large sums of money in town's economy and infrastructure. The result is that the town today is more divided than it was six ago, when EU administration began. The development namely discourages people to move out of occupied homes. The reasons for divisions of Mitrovica aren't economic (unemployment, low wages, etc. ) but the political ones, as a result of ethnic cleansing. The division of Mitrovica will be finished when demographic situation as it was before the war, will be re-established. This won't be possible without use of force or at least the treat of it. Eventual failure of Serbian return to Kosova will deteriorate the position of those Serbs, who are included in UNMIK's institutions in Kosova. The representatives of this circle (Artemije, father Sava, Trajkovic) are announcing that they will retire from politics and break contacts with international community, should the process of Serbian return will not start. Albanians should be aware who are their enemies in the Serb side. This isn't Milosevic and his men, but Serbian opposition with its adherents in Kosova (Serbian National Council-SNC). It's not true that Artemije and his circle represent moderate Serbs, as they are denoted by the international community. They are favourites of the international community, since it opposes the independent Kosova and wants to return Kosova under Belgrade's rule after the fall of Milosevic. These "moderates" are insisting categorically that Kosova must remain part of Serbia, even at the price of exterminating of Albanians (father Sava said in Danas newspaper in 8.1. that Kosova is Serbian holy land, which must be defended by the army; he denoted NATO intervention as a criminal aggression). Their expressions of regret for Serbian crimes aren't sincere, but only a propaganda for the international community and trick for naive Albanians. Nobody of these "moderates" haven't condemned Serb crimes and ethnic cleansing when these things were happening, but only after NATO arrival in Kosova. In memorandum delivered to delegation of U.N.Security Council by Rada Trajkovic and father Sava in behalf of SNC stands that 200.000 Albanians from Albania and Macedonia came to Kosova since arrival of KFOR. This lie is nothing else than appeal for expulsion of 200.000 Albanians in Kosova. For the Albanians these Serbs are dangerous, since they enjoy international reputation. These Serbs aren't "moderate" (it would be as such if they would be willing to respect the decision of Kosova population on Kosova's status), but only more wise that Milosevic's followers. They have found out, that Serb's cause in Kosova will be easier defended by co-operation with the international community, instead by confrontation with it. Father Sava said (Monitor, 14.4.) that they enter IAC, because Kosova will inevitably become independent if Serbs will obstruct political process in Kosova. If return of Serbs will ensue, the position of these "moderates" within Serb community will straighten and they get besides international also internal legitimacy. It is in the Albanian interest, that Serbs in Kosova stay out of Kosova political process, therefore Albanians must do everything to marginalise those Serbs who cooperate with the international community. The failure of two-way return would show, that coexistence between Albanians and Serbs isn't possible, strengthening the support to idea of independent Kosova. If it will turn out, that hatred between Albanians and Serbs is untractable, they will become silent those who are dreaming about common life in democratic, post-Milosevic Yugoslavia. Reintegration of Kosova in Yugoslavia in such circumstances would mean all-out slaughter, which the international community could not afford it. The international community should recognise that Albanians and Serbs will be able to live in peace if they separates. The return of Serbs would also diminish available funds for Kosova's reconstruction. Zoran Djindjic said on Voice of America, that American emissary James Dobbins told him, that each Serb family who returns to Kosova will receive 10.000 US$ for reconstruction of its house. There's no justice, if Serbs will be financed so abundantly, while so many Albanians are living without proper shelter. For these reasons, I think that one-way return of Serbs to Kosova would be a great Albanian mistake. Albanians have no less right to return to northern Mitrovica than Serbs in other parts of Kosova. The international community couldn't oppose two-way return, or back only return of Serbs. I think it would be wise if Albanians as a gesture of goodwill offer, that two Serbs can return for one Albanian in northern Mitrovica. In this way all Albanians could return to northern Mitrovica. In turn, Serbs would definitely lose control over northern Mitrovica by getting nothing important for return, since they would return only in isolated enclaves. Serbian project of return of their refugees have been designed as a trap for Albanians. Serbs expect Albanian opposition of their return. Then they will say that Albanians oppose multiethnic Kosova, striving for only Albanian Kosova. Thus, Serbs will get image of victims and Albanians will be labelled as "bad guys". But if Albanians insist on a two-way return, Serbs will be caught in their own trap. Serbs will be "bad guys" who opposed multiethnic Kosova (it's necessary for multiethnicity that all people could return, not only only people from one ethnicity) and on the other hand Serbs will be those who obstruct solution of Mitrovica problem. In this way, military option for return of Albanians in northern Mitrovica will become legitimate. How the Albanians side should act? It's necessary to pre-empt Serbian plans on time. Serbs are saying that return will be not announced in advance. For this reason Albanians should be vigilant. A good method was applied last year in Orahovac. Albanians should seal off the roads leading to villages intended for Serb return. The removal of barricades should be conditioned by Serbian removal of barricades on bridges in Mitrovica. If KFOR tolerate Serbian "bridge keepers" who prevent the return of Albanians, then it will have to tolerate also Albanian guards, who prevent one-way return of Serbs. It's necessary for Albanians to remain persistent. Serbs in northern Mitrovica with always overcame the impotent peacekeepers with aggressive behaviour (they were not only prevented the return of Albanians even expelled remaining; usurp hospital; they deny access to schools and faculties; they pushed out Americans and Germans who were searching for weapons; peacekeepers daren't to remove the "bridge-keepers", although they promised to do so, etc.). If Albanians agree to one-way Serbian return without quid pro quo, they will demonstrate their weakness against the Serbs and the international community. In this way, they will signal the international community, that they are easy and indulgent partner to dealt with. The conditioning of Serbian return is most efficient leverage to achieve re-unification of Mitrovica. It's time for the Albanians to show, that they know to fight for their interests no less resolutely than Serbs. PS I advise Albanian side to regularly follow Serb media (all their newspapers have their own homepages), because it's necessary to be well acquainted with Serbian plans, so that it could response adequately. From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Fri May 5 17:32:03 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Fri May 5 17:32:03 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] FWD: Return of refugees In-Reply-To: <200005051537.AA11862444@prishtina.com> Message-ID: The plans of Serbia are to separate Kosova -- rather, since it is already split in two -- to take their piece away and be done with it. (Meanwhile, kill some more Albanians whenever possible;) I think that the writer of the previous message made some very good points, which I will dare to summarize: 1. Former Serb Kosova residents who are nowadays refugees in Serbia have become cannon fodder for the Milosevic regime and his backers. However, this is not the problem of the Albanians, it is rather a problems of Serbs themselves. 2. Mitrovica has kept the Kosova war unfinished. Immediately after the withdrawal of the Serb army, ordinary Serbs from other parts of Kosova were guided to Mitrovica, where they were armed and organized. Serbs proceeded to expell ALL Albanians and occupy their flats; This was part of plans to partition Kosova. The partition was the backup plan for Milosevic, if not the main goal of the war; France, US, and NATO allowed or were accomplices in the partition. International mediators must be asked to repeat the assurances that Kosova will not be left partitioned. 3. The return of any Serbs has to be conditioned with the cessation of violence against Albanians, and with the immediate return of Albanians to their former homes in northern Mitrovica. 3. Only those Serbs who have previously been residents of Kosova should -- indeed they must be helped to return, and they must return to their previous homes, not in property belonging to the others or to the government; There is no room for colonizers and for Serb refugees from other Serb conflicts. 3. Suspected war criminals among returning serbs must be arrested on the spot and they must be sent to the Hague. I agree that serb clergy, opposition, SNC, and so on, are not in fact more democratic than the serb government, at least as far as their attitude towards Albanians is concerned. The serb "opposition" dislikes Milosevic not because of what Milosevic did, but because of what he was unable to do; Again, the Serb opposition is in fact not at all different from Milosevic as far as their attitude towards Albanians is concerned. From george33030 at yahoo.com Fri May 5 18:13:48 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Fri May 5 18:13:48 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000505221340.24272.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Etrit Bardhi, Thanks for your response. I have no problem with the ban on obscene language, rules, etc. And feel more comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since my Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a long way to go. However, as far as Dardan is concerned, I really doubt that his moves are "of a purely technical nature" (-as you put it). I'm still not too sure about his motives since he is STILL sending messages in ENGLISH on the ALBANIAN-SPEAKING forum. (Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as I say and not as I do"?) Where is the honesty in this?? It still seems his threats to kick me out of the Albanian-speaking forum is because I'm expressing things he and his followers would rather not listen to. Had I been able to express the same viewpoints in Albanian, I suspect he would STILL try to find an excuse to silence an American point of view. But that's OK, its HIS loss, not mine. I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the responses I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most everyone I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It has had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans now think About Albanians. Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our congress. But don't worry, the same thing has happened with the Serbs who are just as racist as their Albanian counterparts. It makes us all the more eager to have our American soldiers return home since BOTH sides are committing violence against one another and each side tries to convince us that THEY are right and that the OTHER side is wrong. It's a sad situation all around. --George --- Etrit Bardhi wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Hi George, > > Dardan's message was of a purely technical nature, > i.e. we created an > additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since many > people requested > it. Thus please feel free to express your thoughts > in English in this > list. As long as there is no obscene language used, > anything is accepted > (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). > > Later, > > Etrit > Prishtina-e Listowner. > > On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > Dear Jennifer, > > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan > seems to > > be irritated because even though I'm better at > reading > > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am at > > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say > when I > > hear them talking, but am not yet good in speaking > > their language), at the moment, I have no choice > but > > to convey my thoughts in English. > > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to > expell > > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to do > > with my saying things he and some of his followers > or > > fellow Albanians don't want to understand, than > the > > fact that I don't write my e-mail in Albanian. > > So be it! > > --George > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with > Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > > > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From dardan at prishtina.com Fri May 5 20:23:32 2000 From: dardan at prishtina.com (Dardan Blaku) Date: Fri May 5 20:23:32 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <200005052028.AA24248700@prishtina.com> George, Apparently you just have way too much time to devote to these discussions. I know you will take even more time to reply to this e-mail, and as usual come up with new conclusions that absolutely no one from the prishtina-l(e) members that I know cares about. It was explained to you in the beginning. The Prishtina-e list has been created due to the fact that most of the members in prishtina-l are residing in Europe (Kosova, Albania, and other western European countries where English is not the official language), and it's harder for them to read the English posts. After we received numerous complaints, we decided to create this list. I do not have the power to control your personal e-mails or prishtina-e(in case you think we have some type of monopoly running in here). You can knock yourself out by continuing your discussions here or using private e-mail. As far as your ... >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as I >say and not as I do"?) ... statement I wrote messages in English thinking that you did not understand the rules that were written in Albanian. However, since you apparently understand Albanian, you ignored the rules anyway. Then you wrote... >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the responses >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most everyone >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It has >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans now >think About Albanians. >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our >congress. Dude, are you sure you live in America? The above statement just showed that you are only pretending to be an American... why the hell would KFOR or the congress care about these e-mails? What a Good Samaritan you pretend to be man... Does the US government have any rewards for people like you? Do you think that KFOR and the Congress would depend on losers like yourself to make the decisions? How pathetic... KFOR in Kosova (dealing with Albanians on a daily basis) will wait for George Garza's e-mails when they make their decisions about Albanians... Dude, I ask you as a fellow co-listmember to read your e-mails twice before you send them to make sure the members will read them to the end and not roll down on the floor laughing; or you will make them ban you from this list as well. Peace, D ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: George Garza Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:13:40 -0700 (PDT) > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > >Dear Etrit Bardhi, >Thanks for your response. I have no problem with the >ban on obscene language, rules, etc. And feel more >comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since my >Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a >long way to go. >However, as far as Dardan is concerned, I really doubt >that his moves are "of a purely technical nature" (-as >you put it). I'm still not too sure about his motives >since he is STILL sending messages in ENGLISH on the >ALBANIAN-SPEAKING forum. >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as I >say and not as I do"?) >Where is the honesty in this?? >It still seems his threats to kick me out of the >Albanian-speaking forum is because I'm expressing >things he and his followers would rather not listen >to. >Had I been able to express the same viewpoints in >Albanian, I suspect he would STILL try to find an >excuse to silence an American point of view. >But that's OK, its HIS loss, not mine. >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the responses >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most everyone >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It has >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans now >think About Albanians. >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our >congress. >But don't worry, the same thing has happened with the >Serbs who are just as racist as their Albanian >counterparts. >It makes us all the more eager to have our American >soldiers return home since BOTH sides are committing >violence against one another and each side tries to >convince us that THEY are right and that the OTHER >side is wrong. >It's a sad situation all around. >--George > >--- Etrit Bardhi wrote: >> --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- >> Archives: >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e >> >> Hi George, >> >> Dardan's message was of a purely technical nature, >> i.e. we created an >> additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since many >> people requested >> it. Thus please feel free to express your thoughts >> in English in this >> list. As long as there is no obscene language used, >> anything is accepted >> (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). >> >> Later, >> >> Etrit >> Prishtina-e Listowner. >> >> On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: >> >> > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- >> > Archives: >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e >> > >> > Dear Jennifer, >> > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan >> seems to >> > be irritated because even though I'm better at >> reading >> > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am at >> > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say >> when I >> > hear them talking, but am not yet good in speaking >> > their language), at the moment, I have no choice >> but >> > to convey my thoughts in English. >> > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to >> expell >> > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to do >> > with my saying things he and some of his followers >> or >> > fellow Albanians don't want to understand, than >> the >> > fact that I don't write my e-mail in Albanian. >> > So be it! >> > --George >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Send instant messages & get email alerts with >> Yahoo! Messenger. >> > http://im.yahoo.com/ >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________________ >> > Prishtina-E discussion forum: >> Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >> > >> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________________ >> Prishtina-E discussion forum: >> Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________________ >Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Fri May 5 20:25:41 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Fri May 5 20:25:41 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer In-Reply-To: <20000505221340.24272.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: George, you can do blah-blah all day here, at prishtina-e (the "e" at the end stands for "english"); prishtina-l is for albanian language; ever since you decided to intrude, (obviously with the good intention to make us smarter) albanian posters have disappeared; it is very much your fault; you have to understand that many albanians live in non-english speaking countries, and they do not know english; prishtina-e was created for english speakers as far as I can recall; do as all a service and try to understand what's going on before giving wings to your fantasy; thanks ____albi_______________________________________________________________ http://icarus.cc.uic.edu/~aqeli1 On Fri, 5 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Dear Etrit Bardhi, > Thanks for your response. I have no problem with the > ban on obscene language, rules, etc. And feel more > comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since my > Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a > long way to go. > However, as far as Dardan is concerned, I really doubt > that his moves are "of a purely technical nature" (-as > you put it). I'm still not too sure about his motives > since he is STILL sending messages in ENGLISH on the > ALBANIAN-SPEAKING forum. > (Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as I > say and not as I do"?) > Where is the honesty in this?? > It still seems his threats to kick me out of the > Albanian-speaking forum is because I'm expressing > things he and his followers would rather not listen > to. > Had I been able to express the same viewpoints in > Albanian, I suspect he would STILL try to find an > excuse to silence an American point of view. > But that's OK, its HIS loss, not mine. > I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the responses > I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most everyone > I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It has > had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans now > think About Albanians. > Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > congress. > But don't worry, the same thing has happened with the > Serbs who are just as racist as their Albanian > counterparts. > It makes us all the more eager to have our American > soldiers return home since BOTH sides are committing > violence against one another and each side tries to > convince us that THEY are right and that the OTHER > side is wrong. > It's a sad situation all around. > --George > > --- Etrit Bardhi wrote: > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > Hi George, > > > > Dardan's message was of a purely technical nature, > > i.e. we created an > > additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since many > > people requested > > it. Thus please feel free to express your thoughts > > in English in this > > list. As long as there is no obscene language used, > > anything is accepted > > (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). > > > > Later, > > > > Etrit > > Prishtina-e Listowner. > > > > On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > > > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > > > Dear Jennifer, > > > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan > > seems to > > > be irritated because even though I'm better at > > reading > > > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am at > > > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say > > when I > > > hear them talking, but am not yet good in speaking > > > their language), at the moment, I have no choice > > but > > > to convey my thoughts in English. > > > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to > > expell > > > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to do > > > with my saying things he and some of his followers > > or > > > fellow Albanians don't want to understand, than > > the > > > fact that I don't write my e-mail in Albanian. > > > So be it! > > > --George > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with > > Yahoo! Messenger. > > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > > > > > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > From puka at usa.net Fri May 5 23:40:26 2000 From: puka at usa.net (G.S) Date: Fri May 5 23:40:26 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Jeton Ademaj = George ?! Message-ID: <20000506034022.25507.qmail@nwcst284.netaddress.usa.net> > And feel more comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since my >Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a long way to go. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that you are Jeton Ademaj. The evidence is undisputable. He was a firebrand preacher of liberalism like you, and he said the exact same words in one of his posts what you just said above. As soon as you started coming on, he dissapeared, apart from one message that he (you) posted, talking to each other about the evil G.S. racist. Why did you sink so low man ? Jeton Ademaj just dident cut it for you so you decided to come in as an American thinking that we would get down on all fours for you ? And what American understands Albanian ? >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our >congress. KFOR forces and members of congress have nothing better to do than read our posts, and as you imply, probably even change US foreign policy on Kosova based on our letters. Frankly speaking even me with college finished for this semester, do not find enough time to read all the postings (there are a lot and some are pretty long). Yes I'm sure KFOR soldiers maning the Mitrovica bridge are sitting right now and reading our posts, once they read mine they will leave Kosova and its all because of "racist" G.S. Hahahaha. How old are you man ? I'm seriously asking you, since I think Dardan/Etrit should put a minimum age limit on this place, something like 15 (it would be impossible to check,, but just as a disclaimer), since we cant have kids in here wasting our time. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From puka at usa.net Fri May 5 23:55:27 2000 From: puka at usa.net (G.S) Date: Fri May 5 23:55:27 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Mendimin tem ne kthimin e serbve Message-ID: <20000506035526.16937.qmail@nwcst315.netaddress.usa.net> keto kthimet e serbve qe i kan ne plan NATO/SHBA etj, edhe nese e marrim parasysh sitauten ma te mire qe mundet me egzistu, qe dmthn mos mi ndjek kerkush mi mbyt, qysh kan me jetu atje ekonomikisht ? Ne Kosove nuk eshte gjuha serbe gjuhe zyrtar, shumica serbve nuk din shqip, qysh kan me punu ata atje ? Si kan me nxerr pare ? Kush ju blen prodhimin e tyre ? Kush hin neper dyqane tyre ? Nuk mundet me pas jete ekonomike nje minoritet nese jan te bojkotum nga shumica. Si kan me bo pazar nese nuk i flet askush serbisht ? Shumica serbve nuk do te kthehen per kete arsyje, sepse edhe nese e kan sigurine e tyre te garantuar, jeta ekonomike e tyre eshte pa shpres komplet. Une nuk kam frike nga keto kthime sepse keto jan propagande per perendimin, per shembul 3000 kthehen ket vit (me reporterat e CNN'it tu i fotografu) e 15,000 tjere e leshojin Kosoven,, edhe qata 3000 qe vine sifjet ikin vitin tjeter. Per kete pune na vetem mundemi me perfitu nga keto kthimet sepse do te na tregon neve qe jemi per shtet mutli-etnike, edhe une jam, po jam per shtet mutli-etnike ne kushtet e shumices. Serbet nuk munden me qendru ne kete aspekt (minoritet i thjeshte me qene ne Kosove). ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From burimh at hotmail.com Sat May 6 07:59:22 2000 From: burimh at hotmail.com (Burim Hana) Date: Sat May 6 07:59:22 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Mendimin tem ne kthimin e serbve Message-ID: <20000506115915.86462.qmail@hotmail.com> Si burrat ke fole n'te dy emailat e mramte... Per t'paramramtin n'lidhje me George-in osht indispjutebell qi George osht shiptar(tash e ndrova teorine e meparshme qi osht shka). Natyrisht ai s'ka faj qi ka qef me u bo Amerikan, sikur qi s'ka faj qi o le shiptar(pahiri)... Perndryshe emaili n'lidhje me kthimin e shkive: Shkije s'jone kthy n'kosove kur e kane pase pushtetin vete e le mo qitash ... keep it real, keep it short... ejvalla >From: "G.S" >Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com >To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com >Subject: [Prishtina-E] Mendimin tem ne kthimin e serbve >Date: 5 May 00 23:55:26 EDT > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > >keto kthimet e serbve qe i kan ne plan NATO/SHBA etj, edhe nese e marrim >parasysh sitauten ma te mire qe mundet me egzistu, qe dmthn mos mi ndjek >kerkush mi mbyt, qysh kan me jetu atje ekonomikisht ? Ne Kosove nuk eshte >gjuha serbe gjuhe zyrtar, shumica serbve nuk din shqip, qysh kan me punu >ata >atje ? Si kan me nxerr pare ? Kush ju blen prodhimin e tyre ? Kush hin >neper >dyqane tyre ? Nuk mundet me pas jete ekonomike nje minoritet nese jan te >bojkotum nga shumica. Si kan me bo pazar nese nuk i flet askush serbisht ? >Shumica serbve nuk do te kthehen per kete arsyje, sepse edhe nese e kan >sigurine e tyre te garantuar, jeta ekonomike e tyre eshte pa shpres >komplet. > >Une nuk kam frike nga keto kthime sepse keto jan propagande per perendimin, >per shembul 3000 kthehen ket vit (me reporterat e CNN'it tu i fotografu) e >15,000 tjere e leshojin Kosoven,, edhe qata 3000 qe vine sifjet ikin vitin >tjeter. Per kete pune na vetem mundemi me perfitu nga keto kthimet sepse do >te >na tregon neve qe jemi per shtet mutli-etnike, edhe une jam, po jam per >shtet >mutli-etnike ne kushtet e shumices. Serbet nuk munden me qendru ne kete >aspekt >(minoritet i thjeshte me qene ne Kosove). > >____________________________________________________________________ >Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > >_______________________________________________________ >Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From avukpalaj at hotmail.com Sat May 6 12:47:52 2000 From: avukpalaj at hotmail.com (Ardian Vukpalaj) Date: Sat May 6 12:47:52 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] QYFTE... Message-ID: <20000506164745.16423.qmail@hotmail.com> Ma qyfte se jeni tu shkru...une nuk e di...pasha kater kalemat ju nuk jeni normal...per nje vajze..naive e cila e ka te drejten e vet te zgjedhe cka don ne jete, ju jeni tu e diskutu thua se cka dreqi ndodhi. Paj kush ka moter ...ishalla e provon pastaj ...do te flet ne menyre tjeter...e kush nuk ka moter...e provofte me gru te tij... Perzemersisht...Ardiani.. p.s. Kush eshte pak a shume gjak nxehte apo ma mire te themi primitiv...fale e ka bileten per ARABI...nga agjencia LEZETRANS... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From george33030 at yahoo.com Sat May 6 14:21:58 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Sat May 6 14:21:58 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000506182151.18164.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Dardan, Are you implying that one can be banned from this English-speaking list for simply stating our American point of view which does not comply with the lopsided way of thinking you and your followers appear to project? Where is the logic in this? Apperantly, you are not really open to other points of view other than your own. If that's the case, it makes BOTH of your forums nothing but a farce and a place where ONLY Kosovar Albanians and their cohorts can expound their unchallenged views. You are no different than the Serbians who think I', pro-Albanian because I point out to them their truths about what they've done to the Albanians. NONE of you seem to acknowledge the fact that there ARE OTHER very VALID points of view other then what SERBIANS and ALBANIANS seem to have. But (AGAIN!) what can one expect from those who are from a backward third-world country where most people there have known nothing more than violence against one another, hate and counter hate, vengeance and counter vengeance since who knows when. It seems that the ONLY time these individuals were kept in check was when Tito kept them in line. Now, they know not what else to do except prey upon one another while innocent men, women and children die or are driven from their homes. What a legacy for the rest of the world to see. You bring shame upon yourselves (Serbians and Albanians alike!) The last laugh will certainly be on you and your followers. Do yourselves a favor: Talk to ANY American you run into in Kosovo and ask him or her how most of us Americans feel about: 1) Bringing our troops back home. 2) The slaughter and displacement of BOTH Albanian and Serbian Kosovars.. 3) Milosevic and his "Ethnic Cleansing" policies against Bosnia's Moslems and against Albanian Kosovars 4) What the Hague Tribunal should do about the war crimes committed by Serbians against Albanians, Moslems, and others, as well as the war crimes committed by some Albanians against Serbians AND Moslems, Turks and others. 5) If Kosova should become an independent country, remain a UN protectorate, remain a part of what's left of the former Yugoslavia. 6) The Albanian racial intolerance elicited by the fact that a Black man married an Albanian woman. OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS. Its time to wake up, DUDE! You and your followers should be seeking solutions for peace and stability in your area and learn to get along with EVERYONE in your country (Moslem, Gypsy, Albanian and Serb alike! What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in Kosova foe EVERYONE concerned?? --George --- Dardan Blaku wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > George, > > Apparently you just have way too much time to devote > to these discussions. I know you will take even > more time to reply to this e-mail, and as usual come > up with new conclusions that absolutely no one from > the prishtina-l(e) members that I know cares about. > > It was explained to you in the beginning. The > Prishtina-e list has been created due to the fact > that most of the members in prishtina-l are residing > in Europe (Kosova, Albania, and other western > European countries where English is not the official > language), and it's harder for them to read the > English posts. After we received numerous > complaints, we decided to create this list. > > I do not have the power to control your personal > e-mails or prishtina-e(in case you think we have > some type of monopoly running in here). You can > knock yourself out by continuing your discussions > here or using private e-mail. > > > As far as your > .... > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as > I > >say and not as I do"?) > .... > statement > > I wrote messages in English thinking that you did > not understand the rules that were written in > Albanian. However, since you apparently understand > Albanian, you ignored the rules anyway. > > Then you wrote... > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > responses > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > everyone > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > has > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > now > >think About Albanians. > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > >congress. > > Dude, are you sure you live in America? The above > statement just showed that you are only pretending > to be an American... why the hell would KFOR or the > congress care about these e-mails? What a Good > Samaritan you pretend to be man... Does the US > government have any rewards for people like you? Do > you think that KFOR and the Congress would depend on > losers like yourself to make the decisions? How > pathetic... > > KFOR in Kosova (dealing with Albanians on a daily > basis) will wait for George Garza's e-mails when > they make their decisions about Albanians... > > Dude, I ask you as a fellow co-listmember to read > your e-mails twice before you send them to make sure > the members will read them to the end and not roll > down on the floor laughing; or you will make them > ban you from this list as well. > > > > Peace, > D > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > ---------------------------------- > From: George Garza > Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:13:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > >Dear Etrit Bardhi, > >Thanks for your response. I have no problem with > the > >ban on obscene language, rules, etc. And feel more > >comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since > my > >Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a > >long way to go. > >However, as far as Dardan is concerned, I really > doubt > >that his moves are "of a purely technical nature" > (-as > >you put it). I'm still not too sure about his > motives > >since he is STILL sending messages in ENGLISH on > the > >ALBANIAN-SPEAKING forum. > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as > I > >say and not as I do"?) > >Where is the honesty in this?? > >It still seems his threats to kick me out of the > >Albanian-speaking forum is because I'm expressing > >things he and his followers would rather not listen > >to. > >Had I been able to express the same viewpoints in > >Albanian, I suspect he would STILL try to find an > >excuse to silence an American point of view. > >But that's OK, its HIS loss, not mine. > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > responses > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > everyone > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > has > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > now > >think About Albanians. > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > >congress. > >But don't worry, the same thing has happened with > the > >Serbs who are just as racist as their Albanian > >counterparts. > >It makes us all the more eager to have our American > >soldiers return home since BOTH sides are > committing > >violence against one another and each side tries to > >convince us that THEY are right and that the OTHER > >side is wrong. > >It's a sad situation all around. > >--George > > > >--- Etrit Bardhi wrote: > >> --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > >> Archives: > >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > >> > >> Hi George, > >> > >> Dardan's message was of a purely technical > nature, > >> i.e. we created an > >> additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since > many > >> people requested > >> it. Thus please feel free to express your > thoughts > >> in English in this > >> list. As long as there is no obscene language > used, > >> anything is accepted > >> (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). > >> > >> Later, > >> > >> Etrit > >> Prishtina-e Listowner. > >> > >> On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > >> > >> > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum > --- > >> > Archives: > >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > >> > > >> > Dear Jennifer, > >> > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan > >> seems to > >> > be irritated because even though I'm better at > >> reading > >> > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am > at > >> > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say > >> when I > >> > hear them talking, but am not yet good in > speaking > >> > their language), at the moment, I have no > choice > >> but > >> > to convey my thoughts in English. > >> > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to > >> expell > >> > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to > do > >> > with my saying things he and some of his > followers > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From dgashi at ic.sunysb.edu Sun May 7 00:53:13 2000 From: dgashi at ic.sunysb.edu (Diar Gashi) Date: Sun May 7 00:53:13 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer In-Reply-To: <20000506182151.18164.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: George, while you think you are being a good advisor on opinion of integrating multi-ethnicities, which is an acceptable opinion, you are being very insulting and provocative on "backward third world country" and similar understatements. Better choose your words carefully. You are raising tension on us Albanian readers. In my opinion I think you should be banned from this list. Sincerely, Diar Gashi On Sat, 6 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Dardan, > Are you implying that one can be banned from this > English-speaking list for simply stating our American > point of view which does not comply with the lopsided > way of thinking you and your followers appear to > project? > Where is the logic in this? Apperantly, you are not > really open to other points of view other than your > own. If that's the case, it makes BOTH of your forums > nothing but a farce and a place where ONLY Kosovar > Albanians and their cohorts can expound their > unchallenged views. You are no different than the > Serbians who think I', pro-Albanian because I point > out to them their truths about what they've done to > the Albanians. NONE of you seem to acknowledge the > fact that there ARE OTHER very VALID points of view > other then what SERBIANS and ALBANIANS seem to have. > But (AGAIN!) what can one expect from those who are > from a backward third-world country where most people > there have known nothing more than violence against > one another, hate and counter hate, vengeance and > counter vengeance since who knows when. > It seems that the ONLY time these individuals were > kept in check was when Tito kept them in line. Now, > they know not what else to do except prey upon one > another while innocent men, women and children die or > are driven from their homes. > What a legacy for the rest of the world to see. You > bring shame upon yourselves (Serbians and Albanians > alike!) > The last laugh will certainly be on you and your > followers. Do yourselves a favor: > Talk to ANY American you run into in Kosovo and ask > him or her how most of us Americans feel about: > 1) Bringing our troops back home. > 2) The slaughter and displacement of BOTH Albanian and > Serbian Kosovars.. > 3) Milosevic and his "Ethnic Cleansing" policies > against Bosnia's Moslems and against Albanian Kosovars > 4) What the Hague Tribunal should do about the war > crimes committed by Serbians against Albanians, > Moslems, and others, as well as the war crimes > committed by some Albanians against Serbians AND > Moslems, Turks and others. > 5) If Kosova should become an independent country, > remain a UN protectorate, remain a part of what's left > of the former Yugoslavia. > 6) The Albanian racial intolerance elicited by the > fact that a Black man married an Albanian woman. > > OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS. Its time to wake up, DUDE! > You and your followers should be seeking solutions for > peace and stability in your area and learn to get > along with EVERYONE in your country (Moslem, Gypsy, > Albanian and Serb alike! > What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in Kosova > foe EVERYONE concerned?? > --George > > --- Dardan Blaku wrote: > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > George, > > > > Apparently you just have way too much time to devote > > to these discussions. I know you will take even > > more time to reply to this e-mail, and as usual come > > up with new conclusions that absolutely no one from > > the prishtina-l(e) members that I know cares about. > > > > It was explained to you in the beginning. The > > Prishtina-e list has been created due to the fact > > that most of the members in prishtina-l are residing > > in Europe (Kosova, Albania, and other western > > European countries where English is not the official > > language), and it's harder for them to read the > > English posts. After we received numerous > > complaints, we decided to create this list. > > > > I do not have the power to control your personal > > e-mails or prishtina-e(in case you think we have > > some type of monopoly running in here). You can > > knock yourself out by continuing your discussions > > here or using private e-mail. > > > > > > As far as your > > .... > > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as > > I > > >say and not as I do"?) > > .... > > statement > > > > I wrote messages in English thinking that you did > > not understand the rules that were written in > > Albanian. However, since you apparently understand > > Albanian, you ignored the rules anyway. > > > > Then you wrote... > > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > > responses > > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > > everyone > > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > > has > > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > > now > > >think About Albanians. > > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > > >congress. > > > > Dude, are you sure you live in America? The above > > statement just showed that you are only pretending > > to be an American... why the hell would KFOR or the > > congress care about these e-mails? What a Good > > Samaritan you pretend to be man... Does the US > > government have any rewards for people like you? Do > > you think that KFOR and the Congress would depend on > > losers like yourself to make the decisions? How > > pathetic... > > > > KFOR in Kosova (dealing with Albanians on a daily > > basis) will wait for George Garza's e-mails when > > they make their decisions about Albanians... > > > > Dude, I ask you as a fellow co-listmember to read > > your e-mails twice before you send them to make sure > > the members will read them to the end and not roll > > down on the floor laughing; or you will make them > > ban you from this list as well. > > > > > > > > Peace, > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > > ---------------------------------- > > From: George Garza > > Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > > Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:13:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > > >Dear Etrit Bardhi, > > >Thanks for your response. I have no problem with > > the > > >ban on obscene language, rules, etc. And feel more > > >comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since > > my > > >Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a > > >long way to go. > > >However, as far as Dardan is concerned, I really > > doubt > > >that his moves are "of a purely technical nature" > > (-as > > >you put it). I'm still not too sure about his > > motives > > >since he is STILL sending messages in ENGLISH on > > the > > >ALBANIAN-SPEAKING forum. > > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as > > I > > >say and not as I do"?) > > >Where is the honesty in this?? > > >It still seems his threats to kick me out of the > > >Albanian-speaking forum is because I'm expressing > > >things he and his followers would rather not listen > > >to. > > >Had I been able to express the same viewpoints in > > >Albanian, I suspect he would STILL try to find an > > >excuse to silence an American point of view. > > >But that's OK, its HIS loss, not mine. > > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > > responses > > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > > everyone > > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > > has > > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > > now > > >think About Albanians. > > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > > >congress. > > >But don't worry, the same thing has happened with > > the > > >Serbs who are just as racist as their Albanian > > >counterparts. > > >It makes us all the more eager to have our American > > >soldiers return home since BOTH sides are > > committing > > >violence against one another and each side tries to > > >convince us that THEY are right and that the OTHER > > >side is wrong. > > >It's a sad situation all around. > > >--George > > > > > >--- Etrit Bardhi wrote: > > >> --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > >> Archives: > > >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > >> > > >> Hi George, > > >> > > >> Dardan's message was of a purely technical > > nature, > > >> i.e. we created an > > >> additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since > > many > > >> people requested > > >> it. Thus please feel free to express your > > thoughts > > >> in English in this > > >> list. As long as there is no obscene language > > used, > > >> anything is accepted > > >> (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). > > >> > > >> Later, > > >> > > >> Etrit > > >> Prishtina-e Listowner. > > >> > > >> On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > > >> > > >> > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum > > --- > > >> > Archives: > > >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > >> > > > >> > Dear Jennifer, > > >> > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan > > >> seems to > > >> > be irritated because even though I'm better at > > >> reading > > >> > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am > > at > > >> > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say > > >> when I > > >> > hear them talking, but am not yet good in > > speaking > > >> > their language), at the moment, I have no > > choice > > >> but > > >> > to convey my thoughts in English. > > >> > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to > > >> expell > > >> > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to > > do > > >> > with my saying things he and some of his > > followers > > > === message truncated === > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e > From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Sun May 7 03:38:44 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Sun May 7 03:38:44 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <000d01bfb807$60c70200$edaaf880@xyz.uic.edu> > What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in Kosova > foe EVERYONE concerned?? Free and fair elections! Let the people elect their own government! DEMOCRACY!!!! (Is this too much to ask?) From george33030 at yahoo.com Sun May 7 22:15:17 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Sun May 7 22:15:17 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000508021510.21640.qmail@web4502.mail.yahoo.com> ALbi Qeli, Good response. I like it. However, what about the Serbian Kosovars, the Turkish Kosovars and the Gypsies? Shouldn't they have a voice also? You will probably say that these minorities in Kosova were invited by the Albanian and international leaders to join in the governing of Kosova. However, this reminds me of the Albanian denial to vote within the Serbian election system because Albanians were always under the threat of Milosevic's racist government. The Serbian Kosovars probably feel the same way now as the Albanian Kosovars did then. My question is: How can you truly have a democratic government if one side or the other feels persecuted or threatened all the time as has constantly been so in the Balkans? --George --- Albi Qeli wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in > Kosova > > foe EVERYONE concerned?? > > > Free and fair elections! Let the people elect their > own government! > > DEMOCRACY!!!! > > (Is this too much to ask?) > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rdavis at utica.gannett.com Mon May 8 07:25:44 2000 From: rdavis at utica.gannett.com (Davis, Russ (Utica)) Date: Mon May 8 07:25:44 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000508110702.134234674E@smtpgate.gannett.com> "It is better to be thought a fool than open one's mouth (or keyboard) and prove it." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- REPLY FROM: Davis, Russ (Utica) Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note From: George Garza To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com Subject: Re: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Date: 2000-05-06 14:21 Priority: 3 Message ID: C4FEE57A7A23D4119F4F00A0C9EA57B4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e Dardan, Are you implying that one can be banned from this English-speaking list for simply stating our American point of view which does not comply with the lopsided way of thinking you and your followers appear to project? Where is the logic in this? Apperantly, you are not really open to other points of view other than your own. If that's the case, it makes BOTH of your forums nothing but a farce and a place where ONLY Kosovar Albanians and their cohorts can expound their unchallenged views. You are no different than the Serbians who think I', pro-Albanian because I point out to them their truths about what they've done to the Albanians. NONE of you seem to acknowledge the fact that there ARE OTHER very VALID points of view other then what SERBIANS and ALBANIANS seem to have. But (AGAIN!) what can one expect from those who are from a backward third-world country where most people there have known nothing more than violence against one another, hate and counter hate, vengeance and counter vengeance since who knows when. It seems that the ONLY time these individuals were kept in check was when Tito kept them in line. Now, they know not what else to do except prey upon one another while innocent men, women and children die or are driven from their homes. What a legacy for the rest of the world to see. You bring shame upon yourselves (Serbians and Albanians alike!) The last laugh will certainly be on you and your followers. Do yourselves a favor: Talk to ANY American you run into in Kosovo and ask him or her how most of us Americans feel about: 1) Bringing our troops back home. 2) The slaughter and displacement of BOTH Albanian and Serbian Kosovars.. 3) Milosevic and his "Ethnic Cleansing" policies against Bosnia's Moslems and against Albanian Kosovars 4) What the Hague Tribunal should do about the war crimes committed by Serbians against Albanians, Moslems, and others, as well as the war crimes committed by some Albanians against Serbians AND Moslems, Turks and others. 5) If Kosova should become an independent country, remain a UN protectorate, remain a part of what's left of the former Yugoslavia. 6) The Albanian racial intolerance elicited by the fact that a Black man married an Albanian woman. OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS. Its time to wake up, DUDE! You and your followers should be seeking solutions for peace and stability in your area and learn to get along with EVERYONE in your country (Moslem, Gypsy, Albanian and Serb alike! What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in Kosova foe EVERYONE concerned?? --George --- Dardan Blaku wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > George, > > Apparently you just have way too much time to devote > to these discussions. I know you will take even > more time to reply to this e-mail, and as usual come > up with new conclusions that absolutely no one from > the prishtina-l(e) members that I know cares about. > > It was explained to you in the beginning. The > Prishtina-e list has been created due to the fact > that most of the members in prishtina-l are residing > in Europe (Kosova, Albania, and other western > European countries where English is not the official > language), and it's harder for them to read the > English posts. After we received numerous > complaints, we decided to create this list. > > I do not have the power to control your personal > e-mails or prishtina-e(in case you think we have > some type of monopoly running in here). You can > knock yourself out by continuing your discussions > here or using private e-mail. > > > As far as your > .... > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as > I > >say and not as I do"?) > .... > statement > > I wrote messages in English thinking that you did > not understand the rules that were written in > Albanian. However, since you apparently understand > Albanian, you ignored the rules anyway. > > Then you wrote... > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > responses > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > everyone > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > has > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > now > >think About Albanians. > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > >congress. > > Dude, are you sure you live in America? The above > statement just showed that you are only pretending > to be an American... why the hell would KFOR or the > congress care about these e-mails? What a Good > Samaritan you pretend to be man... Does the US > government have any rewards for people like you? Do > you think that KFOR and the Congress would depend on > losers like yourself to make the decisions? How > pathetic... > > KFOR in Kosova (dealing with Albanians on a daily > basis) will wait for George Garza's e-mails when > they make their decisions about Albanians... > > Dude, I ask you as a fellow co-listmember to read > your e-mails twice before you send them to make sure > the members will read them to the end and not roll > down on the floor laughing; or you will make them > ban you from this list as well. > > > > Peace, > D > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > ---------------------------------- > From: George Garza > Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:13:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > >Dear Etrit Bardhi, > >Thanks for your response. I have no problem with > the > >ban on obscene language, rules, etc. And feel more > >comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since > my > >Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a > >long way to go. > >However, as far as Dardan is concerned, I really > doubt > >that his moves are "of a purely technical nature" > (-as > >you put it). I'm still not too sure about his > motives > >since he is STILL sending messages in ENGLISH on > the > >ALBANIAN-SPEAKING forum. > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do as > I > >say and not as I do"?) > >Where is the honesty in this?? > >It still seems his threats to kick me out of the > >Albanian-speaking forum is because I'm expressing > >things he and his followers would rather not listen > >to. > >Had I been able to express the same viewpoints in > >Albanian, I suspect he would STILL try to find an > >excuse to silence an American point of view. > >But that's OK, its HIS loss, not mine. > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > responses > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > everyone > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > has > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > now > >think About Albanians. > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > >congress. > >But don't worry, the same thing has happened with > the > >Serbs who are just as racist as their Albanian > >counterparts. > >It makes us all the more eager to have our American > >soldiers return home since BOTH sides are > committing > >violence against one another and each side tries to > >convince us that THEY are right and that the OTHER > >side is wrong. > >It's a sad situation all around. > >--George > > > >--- Etrit Bardhi wrote: > >> --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > >> Archives: > >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > >> > >> Hi George, > >> > >> Dardan's message was of a purely technical > nature, > >> i.e. we created an > >> additional list (this one, Prishtina-e) since > many > >> people requested > >> it. Thus please feel free to express your > thoughts > >> in English in this > >> list. As long as there is no obscene language > used, > >> anything is accepted > >> (that has to do with Prishtina, of course). > >> > >> Later, > >> > >> Etrit > >> Prishtina-e Listowner. > >> > >> On Thu, 4 May 2000, George Garza wrote: > >> > >> > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum > --- > >> > Archives: > >> www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > >> > > >> > Dear Jennifer, > >> > Ok. I did as you requested. Apparently Dardan > >> seems to > >> > be irritated because even though I'm better at > >> reading > >> > Albanian than I am at writing it (just as I am > at > >> > somewhat understanding what some Albanians say > >> when I > >> > hear them talking, but am not yet good in > speaking > >> > their language), at the moment, I have no > choice > >> but > >> > to convey my thoughts in English. > >> > However, I strongly suspect that his threats to > >> expell > >> > me from the Albanian-language forum has more to > do > >> > with my saying things he and some of his > followers > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________ Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e From h-rengier at gmx.de Mon May 8 09:08:22 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Mon May 8 09:08:22 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Explanation References: Message-ID: <19659.957791272@www9.gmx.net> Dear Diar Gashi, George is getting to emotional in putting his views in those squalid manners by using the term Third world in his arrogance as a man of a superior race and culture who likes to give some kids a lesson. Typical attitude of those who claim to be of a civilised culture in conveying their message to world by seing themself playing the role of David in the world while ignoring the fact that their house is made out glas, historically speaking. Nevertheless, he should not be band from the list for merely expressing his viewpoint, for everyman has the right to speak loud and clear until his voice is equally heard like those of the main stream. But to you George I have a message which you should give a second thought in using the term third world, then the term is given by colonial master who divided the world in those racial methods even without asking the rest of the world permissin whether they agree to the dorogatory world imposed. Hany Rengier -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From jeton at hotmail.com Mon May 8 11:20:07 2000 From: jeton at hotmail.com (jeton ademaj) Date: Mon May 8 11:20:07 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Jeton Ademaj = George ?! Message-ID: <20000508151908.60986.qmail@hotmail.com> aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, G.S. what do you do? are u an activist of any kind besides e-mail? i actually told dardan to remove me from the -l and -e lists cuz the -e wuz boring, and i'd written some long rebukes of u and albi on the -l list, but dardan returned them to me. i didn't feel like reading your garbage if i couldn't respond to it online (in the limited time i have) but, i can always throw you a bone upside your head anyday: > > > And feel more comfortable conveying my thoughts in English since my > >Albanian reading, writing and speaking still have a long way to go. > >I've pretty much come to the conclusion that you are Jeton Ademaj. The >evidence is undisputable. He was a firebrand preacher of liberalism like >you, >and he said the exact same words in one of his posts what you just said >above. >As soon as you started coming on, he dissapeared, apart from one message >that >he (you) posted, talking to each other about the evil G.S. racist. Why did >you >sink so low man ? Jeton Ademaj just dident cut it for you so you decided to >come in as an American thinking that we would get down on all fours for you >? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, g-thang! i've decided u must be very handsome (please be), because if it turns out that yer ugly, then the image of u on all fours would traumatize every lifeform on earth! mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, yer so fixated! do u think of anything other than gangsta-niggahs and yerself on all fours? >And what American understands Albanian ? > > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of our > >congress. > >KFOR forces and members of congress have nothing better to do than read our >posts, and as you imply, probably even change US foreign policy on Kosova >based on our letters. Frankly speaking even me with college finished for >this >semester, do not find enough time to read all the postings (there are a lot >and some are pretty long). Yes I'm sure KFOR soldiers maning the Mitrovica >bridge are sitting right now and reading our posts, once they read mine >they >will leave Kosova and its all because of "racist" G.S. Hahahaha. don't call me george, i rebuked his jingoism many times as well, but dardan blocked them all (p.s. to dardie: i know, i know, 'it's the rules...') as well. > >How old are you man ? I'm seriously asking you, since I think Dardan/Etrit >should put a minimum age limit on this place, something like 15 (it would >be >impossible to check,, but just as a disclaimer), since we cant have kids in >here wasting our time. > g-thang, Jeton Ademaj was born almost 28 years ago. i think i'll re-name you "4tadafloor", but first i should ask how old U are! btw, dard and etrit know how old i am, but u should reveal more about yourself. > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ >Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > >_______________________________________________________ >Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From jeton at hotmail.com Mon May 8 11:34:36 2000 From: jeton at hotmail.com (jeton ademaj) Date: Mon May 8 11:34:36 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Fwd: Prishtina-L request rejected Message-ID: <20000508153428.49198.qmail@hotmail.com> everyone, here is my first response to be rejected from -l. for yer peeping pleasure here at -e. (the rest are lost 4ever....) >has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the >following reason for rejecting your request: > > This list is for discussion in Albanian language only. >For English language, please direct your posts to >prishtina-e at alb-net.com. > >Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator >at: > > prishtina-l-admin at alb-net.com > >Your original message follows: >Received: from hotmail.com (f29.law6.hotmail.com [216.32.241.29]) > by alb-net.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e44Fbo914284 > for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:37:50 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (qmail 29822 invoked by uid 0); 4 May 2000 15:37:43 -0000 >Message-ID: <20000504153743.29821.qmail at hotmail.com> >Received: from 149.123.30.132 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; > Thu, 04 May 2000 08:37:43 PDT >X-Originating-IP: [149.123.30.132] >From: "jeton ademaj" >To: prishtina-l at alb-net.com >Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: [Re: [Re: [Re: [Prishtina-l] Vajza shqiptare e >martume ne > nigger.]]]]] >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:37:43 EDT >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > >hi everybody! (-hi dr. nick!) > >well well well, where to begin with my limited response time... > > > > Jeton, > > > I apologize for being "comically racist". I had no intention of being > >funny, > > > however I am pleased to learn that I posses that talent as well. As >far > >as > > > me being a racist, I have no idea as to where did my writing imply >that > > > because, first, I am not one and second my argument ,opposing > > > inter-ethnic(racial)marriages in Kosova, was not based on race but on >my > > > opinion that the Albanian society in KOSOVA has not achieved the level > >of > > > development that would benefit from inter-ethnic(racial) marriages. I > > > emphasized KOSOVA because this does not apply to the Albanian > >communities > > > outside of Kosova. > > > And, Jeton, when one asks for insight, one must be willing to provide > >it, > >actually, ramis, the point of asking for insight is getting it, not giving >it. however, i think u glibly dismiss the insights i did offer: >u r a racist (get comfy, look at the company yer ('you are'; 'you're') >in! why don't u argue with g-thang and Albi(anidiot) about when THE >'PROPER' >TIME FOR 'RACE-MIXING' IN KOSOVA WILL ACTUALLY BEGIN, SINCE U THINK IT CAN >HAPPEN 'EVENTUALLY'?) > > > > although I still don't understand what kind of insight would I be able > >to > > > provide you with, since I have not been in Kosova in the last 8 years. > > > That's why I call my writings opinions. > >fair enuff, at least YER honest (as opposed to YER co-defendents) > >now, Albi(asillysillybigotfortherestofmyignorantlife) > > >Since Jeton does not know the difference between "your" and "you're", it > >is very likely that he went to a really bad high school; this makes > >opinions coming from him highly suscpect of being less valued than the >ink > >he spent to write them :) > >actually, i went to stuyvesant h.s., the best the SHBA has to offer. i >suggest that we all extend to each other the courtesy of not picking at >each >other's grammar or spelling, given that e-mail is a semi-realtime medium >where shorthand and/or errors due to rapid typing are rampant. > >for ecks-ample, it appears u were trying to say "this makes his opinions >highly suspect, not even worth the effort of typing them". > >but what u actually wrote was semantically incoherent, yet discernable due >to my indulgence. > >btw, unless one is pointing out an error that results in a comical or >ironic >effect, the act of picking at another's writing is usually a sign of >desperate reaching; do u feel 'intellectual' yet? > > >Jeton, > > > >Racial/color diversity per se has no value; it is completely unnecessary, > >nothing good comes from it; after establishing this, it remains to be >said > >that purity of race has no intrinsic value either; Then why prefer one > >over the other? I will pose another question, the answer to which answers > >both: Why introduce diversity a-la americana when nothing good comes from > >it, it is not necessary to do so, and it ends up creating problems? > >we should define our terms, because some in this forum refer to 'race' as >tribal genetic lineage (like jen), while others (like g-thang and u, >Albireachingforaninsultanywayican) refer to 'race' in the manner i >elaborated on previously (as 3 separate types of humans >(white/black/yellow)) > >and yer (your) reasoning is circular, because the 'problem' of race-mixing >u >refer to is that people like u hate it and cause the resultant problems; >ergo, u should GET OVER YER SILLY NARCISSISTIC HATRED! > > >We should not try particularly hard to import people who look unlike > >anybody else we have seen and then make them Albanians. We do not need > >affirmative actions, admission quotas and the such; And there is nothing > >wrong with the mother or the father who is happy when her/his child looks > >alike her/him. > >listen to u! u won't even talk about 'blacks/browns' without making >reference to particularly American forms of racism: 'affirmative >action/hip-hop/harlem/yadayadayada...' >but please, posture some more... > > >Then, since we do not have the problems that made Americans invent racial > >diversity, we do not have to worry about solving them. > >Q E D! >(heheheheheHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!) >:) =) ;) etc. > >_____ > > > >As far as that girl whose shortsightedness started all this discussion, > >she never intended to stay and live in her homeland. (The probablility > >that the previous assertion is true is 0.999) Albanians did not kick her, > >oops, sorry, i forgot to add that another reason for picking at someone >else's writing is when that writing is genuinely confused. what d'ya mean, >'previous assertion'? didja mean to write 'the preceding assertion' (which >would have been a stylistic reach, but grammatically correct)? >or are u referring to another, unreferenced assertion? > > >she wanted to leave, and that's why she married a foreigner who was >sooner > >or later going to leave. > > >btw, albianeasynametomesswith, will u pick at other's grammar? > >jeton > >p.s. to jen, thanks for mentioning sexual orientation again, cuz besides a >stupid, albanian lang. ref. to "hermafrodite", none of the bigots seem to >wanna touch that 3rd rail again... > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From jeton at hotmail.com Mon May 8 11:56:50 2000 From: jeton at hotmail.com (jeton ademaj) Date: Mon May 8 11:56:50 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <20000508155626.59816.qmail@hotmail.com> oh, and i forgot which bigot said it, but to whomever wrote (in reference to Kosovar wives abanoned by their husbands after being victimized by serbs): "i know it's a problem, but it's too difficult to talk about it" q.) HOW AND WHY IS IT THAT TALKING ABOUT SEXUAL VICTIMIZATION IS GOOD FOR THE VICTIMS OF IT AND THEIR FAMILIES, EXCEPT WHEN THEY OR THEIR FAMILIES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT 'SOCIETY' THINKS? a.) BECAUSE FOOLISH SENTIMENTS LIKE THIS ARE EXPRESSED BY IDIOTS MORE CONCERNED ABOUT AN ABSTRACT IDEAL OF INVINCIBLE MACHISMO THAN THEY ARE ABOUT THE LIVING OF HAPPY FUNCTIONAL LIVES, SO WHEN THAT INSECURE ABSTRACTION OF MACHISMO IS THREATENED, THESE IDIOTS CAN IMPLICITLY OR EXPLICITLY ENCOURAGE THOSE IDIOTS TO SHUN OR ABANDON LOVED ONES WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED! Yes, there are certain aspects of Albanian culture that i'll be happy to watch wither in the sunlight! jeton ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Mon May 8 13:09:58 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Mon May 8 13:09:58 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <000d01bfb8a7$8913f920$e1aaf880@xyz.uic.edu> >My question is: How can you truly have a democratic >government if one side or the other feels persecuted >or threatened all the time as has constantly been so >in the Balkans? I think you have to start somewhere, and holding free elections is the best start possible if what you want is democracy and tolerance. Kosova's autonomy was taken away overnight, Kosova's parliament was dissolved, and kosovars were told to go and vote for Serbia's parliament. Kosovars reacted by proclaiming independence, and that's where the democratic process has to start: the will of Kosova's majority must be recognized. In Quebec, some people want separation from Canada, some don't. They held a REFERENDUM for independence, people voted, and it didn't pass. They held the referendum, because that is the only way to decided such a thing in a democratic way. From abetare1 at yahoo.com Mon May 8 13:53:43 2000 From: abetare1 at yahoo.com (Abetare Latifaj) Date: Mon May 8 13:53:43 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] UNSUB PRISHTINA-E Message-ID: <20000508175336.19926.qmail@web4502.mail.yahoo.com> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From george33030 at yahoo.com Mon May 8 20:35:20 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Mon May 8 20:35:20 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000509003513.29246.qmail@web4505.mail.yahoo.com> Qeli, There seems to be SOME validity to your comments here. However, we here in the U.S. believe that if a referendum (as you recommend) were held and if Albanian Kosovars were to have their way, a reverse-type of "ethnic cleansing" would emerge and the minorities in Kosova (Turks, Moslems, Gypsies, Serbs, and NOW: Blacks) would face the kind of discrimination and persecution that Albanians have suffered under the Serbs as they are already suffering NOW since Kosova's fate has yet to be determined. Don't tell me that Kosova's Albanians are capable of organizing themselves as a truly democratic society after having been used to a communist way of life. If you recall, prior to the Rambouillet Accords, the Albanian Kosovars had political tensions and divisions among themselves. Now that NATO is in Kosova, members of the LDK are being threatened, attacked and even murdered by the Albanian extremists who are opposed to them just because they have a difference of opinion. Everyone knows that this is what provides the kindling for another full-blown civil war among Kosovar Albanians. Also consider the dangers now being posed by the KLA-style forces in Macedonia. More than likely, Kosova's fate would be no different than Albania's after the fall of communism. If you'll recall, there were riots and chaos in Albania. AND as you are (as you claim) the SAME nation, what else can we Americans expect from your people, given your history? AND, this brings up ANOTHER question: How can it be said that if ANY given election or referendum (as you mention) were held anytime soon, that it could truly be considered a "fair and democratic process" when not ALL of the displaced Serbian, Albanian, etc. Kosovars have yet to return to their homes, not to mention ALL of the dead Kosovars (Serbian, Albanian, Moslem, etc.)and other victims? The dead cannot vote. Where is the justice in this? I'm sorry, but you cannot place Kosova in the same level as Canada, a country far more advanced and developed than your underdeveloped third world region. The Canadians and the people of Quebec have not been engaging in ethnic strife where "ethnic cleansing" vengeance and counter vengeance is all done in the name of nationalism as has been the history of the Balkans. --George --- Albi Qeli wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > >My question is: How can you truly have a democratic > >government if one side or the other feels > persecuted > >or threatened all the time as has constantly been > so > >in the Balkans? > > > I think you have to start somewhere, and holding > free elections is the best > start possible if what you want is democracy and > tolerance. > > Kosova's autonomy was taken away overnight, Kosova's > parliament was > dissolved, and kosovars were told to go and vote for > Serbia's parliament. > Kosovars reacted by proclaiming independence, and > that's where the > democratic process has to start: the will of > Kosova's majority must be > recognized. > > In Quebec, some people want separation from Canada, > some don't. They held a > REFERENDUM for independence, people voted, and it > didn't pass. They held the > referendum, because that is the only way to decided > such a thing in a > democratic way. > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From george33030 at yahoo.com Mon May 8 20:39:02 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Mon May 8 20:39:02 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Davis Russ Message-ID: <20000509003855.29614.qmail@web4505.mail.yahoo.com> Davis Russ, Apparently, you just did. You've said NOTHING! So, what's your point, (BUBBA!). --George --- "Davis, Russ (Utica)" wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > "It is better to be thought a fool than open one's > mouth (or keyboard) and > prove it." > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > REPLY FROM: Davis, Russ (Utica) > Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) > IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note > From: George Garza > To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > Subject: Re: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer > Date: 2000-05-06 14:21 > Priority: 3 > Message ID: C4FEE57A7A23D4119F4F00A0C9EA57B4 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Dardan, > Are you implying that one can be banned from this > English-speaking list for simply stating our > American > point of view which does not comply with the > lopsided > way of thinking you and your followers appear to > project? > Where is the logic in this? Apperantly, you are not > really open to other points of view other than your > own. If that's the case, it makes BOTH of your > forums > nothing but a farce and a place where ONLY Kosovar > Albanians and their cohorts can expound their > unchallenged views. You are no different than the > Serbians who think I', pro-Albanian because I point > out to them their truths about what they've done to > the Albanians. NONE of you seem to acknowledge the > fact that there ARE OTHER very VALID points of view > other then what SERBIANS and ALBANIANS seem to have. > But (AGAIN!) what can one expect from those who are > from a backward third-world country where most > people > there have known nothing more than violence against > one another, hate and counter hate, vengeance and > counter vengeance since who knows when. > It seems that the ONLY time these individuals were > kept in check was when Tito kept them in line. Now, > they know not what else to do except prey upon one > another while innocent men, women and children die > or > are driven from their homes. > What a legacy for the rest of the world to see. You > bring shame upon yourselves (Serbians and Albanians > alike!) > The last laugh will certainly be on you and your > followers. Do yourselves a favor: > Talk to ANY American you run into in Kosovo and ask > him or her how most of us Americans feel about: > 1) Bringing our troops back home. > 2) The slaughter and displacement of BOTH Albanian > and > Serbian Kosovars.. > 3) Milosevic and his "Ethnic Cleansing" policies > against Bosnia's Moslems and against Albanian > Kosovars > 4) What the Hague Tribunal should do about the war > crimes committed by Serbians against Albanians, > Moslems, and others, as well as the war crimes > committed by some Albanians against Serbians AND > Moslems, Turks and others. > 5) If Kosova should become an independent country, > remain a UN protectorate, remain a part of what's > left > of the former Yugoslavia. > 6) The Albanian racial intolerance elicited by the > fact that a Black man married an Albanian woman. > > OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS. Its time to wake up, DUDE! > You and your followers should be seeking solutions > for > peace and stability in your area and learn to get > along with EVERYONE in your country (Moslem, Gypsy, > Albanian and Serb alike! > What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in > Kosova > foe EVERYONE concerned?? > --George > > --- Dardan Blaku wrote: > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > George, > > > > Apparently you just have way too much time to > devote > > to these discussions. I know you will take even > > more time to reply to this e-mail, and as usual > come > > up with new conclusions that absolutely no one > from > > the prishtina-l(e) members that I know cares > about. > > > > It was explained to you in the beginning. The > > Prishtina-e list has been created due to the fact > > that most of the members in prishtina-l are > residing > > in Europe (Kosova, Albania, and other western > > European countries where English is not the > official > > language), and it's harder for them to read the > > English posts. After we received numerous > > complaints, we decided to create this list. > > > > I do not have the power to control your personal > > e-mails or prishtina-e(in case you think we have > > some type of monopoly running in here). You can > > knock yourself out by continuing your discussions > > here or using private e-mail. > > > > > > As far as your > > .... > > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do > as > > I > > >say and not as I do"?) > > .... > > statement > > > > I wrote messages in English thinking that you did > > not understand the rules that were written in > > Albanian. However, since you apparently understand > > Albanian, you ignored the rules anyway. > > > > Then you wrote... > > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > > responses > > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > > everyone > > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > > has > > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > > now > > >think About Albanians. > > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of > our > > >congress. > > > > Dude, are you sure you live in America? The above > > statement just showed that you are only pretending > > to be an American... why the hell would KFOR or > the > > congress care about these e-mails? What a Good > > Samaritan you pretend to be man... Does the US > > government have any rewards for people like you? > Do > > you think that KFOR and the Congress would depend > on > > losers like yourself to make the decisions? How > > pathetic... > > > > KFOR in Kosova (dealing with Albanians on a daily > > basis) will wait for George Garza's e-mails when > > they make their decisions about Albanians... > > > > Dude, I ask you as a fellow co-listmember to read > > your e-mails twice before you send them to make > sure > > the members will read them to the end and not roll > > down on the floor laughing; or you will make them > > ban you from this list as well. > > > > > > > > Peace, > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > > ---------------------------------- > > From: George Garza > > Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > > Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:13:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From george33030 at yahoo.com Mon May 8 20:45:01 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Mon May 8 20:45:01 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Explanation Message-ID: <20000509004454.723.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Rengier (Whatever), Please beg borrow or steal an unabridged Webster's Dictionary of American English, and look up the term: Third World. Perhaps you will cease to feel insulted when you discover that I'm merely identifying those countries that are currently UNDERdeveloped. It has NOTHING to do with "arrogance" as you say. (No brag, just FACT!) --George --- h-rengier at gmx.de wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Dear Diar Gashi, > > George is getting to emotional in putting his views > in those squalid > manners by using the term Third world in his > arrogance as a man of a superior > race and culture who likes to give some kids a > lesson. Typical attitude of > those who claim to be of a civilised culture in > conveying their message to world > by seing themself playing the role of David in the > world while ignoring the > fact that their house is made out glas, historically > speaking. > Nevertheless, he should not be band from the list > for merely expressing his viewpoint, > for everyman has the right to speak loud and clear > until his voice is equally > heard like those of the main stream. > > But to you George I have a message which you should > give a second thought > in using the term third world, then the term is > given by colonial master who > divided the world in those racial methods even > without asking the rest of > the world permissin whether they agree to the > dorogatory world imposed. > > Hany Rengier > > > -- > Sent through Global Message Exchange - > http://www.gmx.net > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Mon May 8 21:06:46 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Mon May 8 21:06:46 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <000701bfb962$f09b33e0$edacf880@xyz.uic.edu> George, Your spaghetti-like convoluted reasoning is no reasoning at all. There is only one way to democracy, and that is free elections. Then, if you want to care about the minorities, you have to care about the majority first. Do you want Albanians to cooperate and forget their dead? Don't ever tell them that you want to bring back the same serb butchers to rule them. Period. As for your statement: "Kosova is not like Canada" -- that was precisely my point -- only like this "Serbia is not Canada". Try sending English speaking troops in Quebec to harass people during elections (unthinkable, isn't it?), and see what will happen. Try repleacing all French speaking officials and police with English speaking ones. See -- maybe Quebec will end up worse than anything you have seen so far. The reason why Albanian nation is in a sorry state has a lot to do with the partition of Kosova and other Albanian lands. Think of drawing an international border in places such as Berlin. Ironically, it was in Berlin, (back in 1878 if my memory serves me well,) where Brittons and Russians and Germans gathered and came up with the conclusion that "the Albanian nation does not even exist". They gave Albanian inhabited lands to other balkan states. The poorest of Albanian-inhabited lands were left for the new Albanian state. The north of today's Albania used to trade with kosovar cities of Prizren and so on. The imposition of an international border converted the north of Albania in a desert. Similarly, in south, Janina (Yanina) used to be the biggest economic center for Albanians. Anyway, let's not get into history and why this and why that. The solution to Kosova's problems -- the start rather -- is clear: elections. Maybe serbs will not return in the next two months but that is mainly because they are not ready -- they do not even regret what they did to Albanians. With time, they will wake up and smell the coffee. Who knows, they may want to return. From etrit at alb-net.com Tue May 9 01:17:05 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Tue May 9 01:17:05 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] University of Pristina (fwd) Message-ID: please reply directly. etrit. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:14:04 +0100 From: u03sv Dear Webmaster I have read the Free Albin Kurti website with very great interest. This is largely because in the summer of 1999 I visited Kosova and met the student leaders from the university of Pristina. My name is Simon Varwell, and I am a student at the University of Aberdeen, in north-east Scotland. Last summer our university students' representative council sent a lorry of aid to the University of Pristina, which was I believe the first aid the university had received after the bombings of the spring. Myself and three others from the university handed over the aid, consisting of educational materials, computers, and furniture, and had a number of meetings with the leaders of the union. We were very warmly welcomed by the students there, and we promised to keep in touch. However, for that to happen depended on the students union having access to post or e-mail, and we have since heard nothing. I do not know if you are able to help me, but on finding your website I think now there is a possibility of me making contact with the student leaders there. I would greatly like to continue contact with the students union in Pristina, because I feel that if there is more that my university could do for the University of Pristina in the future, then that would be a good thing - especially with regard to the campaign for Albin Kurti. If there is anything you could do to help me find out whether they are contactable, I would be very grateful for your help. I greatly look forward to hearing from you Kind greetings from Scotland Simon Varwell From etrit at alb-net.com Tue May 9 01:24:44 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Tue May 9 01:24:44 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] From Spain (fwd) Message-ID: we should do more for albin kurti, does anyone have any new information on him? etrit. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:24:58 +0200 From: paz ahora My name is Julio Rodriguez and I am the president of the Spanish NGO "Paz Ahora/ Paqe Tani". I met Albin Kurti in August 1998 when a team of our organisation was in Prishtin? in a mission searching about the situation of the human rights in your country. I suppose that to send him a message of support is almost impossible, but in Spain we will appreciate if you can send our words to him. The last dates of April and the first of May of this year (I mean last week), other activist of Paz Ahora and me were in Prishtin? and Mitrovica to supervise the disload of a convoy with humanitarian aid sending for our organisation to this last city and we had the opportunity to interview the people who participate in the hunger strike for the release of the political prisoners. Mr Gorani, the leader of the Trade Unions, was so polite to introduce us to the strikers. We have linked our main web page to yours and to the main page of the petition page for the release of the political prisoners, including in our page banners of both pages. We suggest an interchange of banners or links between our to pages (if you think this is interesting for you) Any case you may watch our solidarity work clicking in : http://www.nodo50.org/pazahora and send us your opinion, which will be very interesting for us. Julio Rodriguez President of Paz Ahora / Paqe Tani/Peace Now/ Mir Sada/ Pace Ora / Pau Ara. From rdavis at utica.gannett.com Tue May 9 07:23:53 2000 From: rdavis at utica.gannett.com (Davis, Russ (Utica)) Date: Tue May 9 07:23:53 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Davis Russ Message-ID: <20000509110503.10C2C3121F@smtpgate.gannett.com> George's phony attitude reminds me of the reactions of a Klansman surprised he is not the majority of the NAACP. How shocking Albanians should support something Albanian! Gasp! And sadly, George is wrong that Americans oppose Albanians. Americans can't figure out anything that doesn't at the bottom of everything make money and settle things quickly so everyone can go watch TV. Hence our policies around the world. We love the downtrodden but only when they are in danger of extinction. But the thing with folks like George is that arguments and hair- splitting waste so much time, that the real problem - getting elections in gear and moving Kosova forward - are obscured by a rhetorical cloud of smoke. Americans understand the problem is not with the everyday people, but with dithering organizations that cannot get the job done. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- REPLY FROM: Davis, Russ (Utica) Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note From: George Garza To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com Subject: Re: [Prishtina-E] Davis Russ Date: 2000-05-08 20:38 Priority: 3 Message ID: 697728AE3125D4118B9300A0C9EA57D7 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e Davis Russ, Apparently, you just did. You've said NOTHING! So, what's your point, (BUBBA!). --George --- "Davis, Russ (Utica)" wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > "It is better to be thought a fool than open one's > mouth (or keyboard) and > prove it." > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > REPLY FROM: Davis, Russ (Utica) > Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) > IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note > From: George Garza > To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > Subject: Re: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer > Date: 2000-05-06 14:21 > Priority: 3 > Message ID: C4FEE57A7A23D4119F4F00A0C9EA57B4 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Dardan, > Are you implying that one can be banned from this > English-speaking list for simply stating our > American > point of view which does not comply with the > lopsided > way of thinking you and your followers appear to > project? > Where is the logic in this? Apperantly, you are not > really open to other points of view other than your > own. If that's the case, it makes BOTH of your > forums > nothing but a farce and a place where ONLY Kosovar > Albanians and their cohorts can expound their > unchallenged views. You are no different than the > Serbians who think I', pro-Albanian because I point > out to them their truths about what they've done to > the Albanians. NONE of you seem to acknowledge the > fact that there ARE OTHER very VALID points of view > other then what SERBIANS and ALBANIANS seem to have. > But (AGAIN!) what can one expect from those who are > from a backward third-world country where most > people > there have known nothing more than violence against > one another, hate and counter hate, vengeance and > counter vengeance since who knows when. > It seems that the ONLY time these individuals were > kept in check was when Tito kept them in line. Now, > they know not what else to do except prey upon one > another while innocent men, women and children die > or > are driven from their homes. > What a legacy for the rest of the world to see. You > bring shame upon yourselves (Serbians and Albanians > alike!) > The last laugh will certainly be on you and your > followers. Do yourselves a favor: > Talk to ANY American you run into in Kosovo and ask > him or her how most of us Americans feel about: > 1) Bringing our troops back home. > 2) The slaughter and displacement of BOTH Albanian > and > Serbian Kosovars.. > 3) Milosevic and his "Ethnic Cleansing" policies > against Bosnia's Moslems and against Albanian > Kosovars > 4) What the Hague Tribunal should do about the war > crimes committed by Serbians against Albanians, > Moslems, and others, as well as the war crimes > committed by some Albanians against Serbians AND > Moslems, Turks and others. > 5) If Kosova should become an independent country, > remain a UN protectorate, remain a part of what's > left > of the former Yugoslavia. > 6) The Albanian racial intolerance elicited by the > fact that a Black man married an Albanian woman. > > OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS. Its time to wake up, DUDE! > You and your followers should be seeking solutions > for > peace and stability in your area and learn to get > along with EVERYONE in your country (Moslem, Gypsy, > Albanian and Serb alike! > What is YOUR real suggestion for a solution in > Kosova > foe EVERYONE concerned?? > --George > > --- Dardan Blaku wrote: > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > > > George, > > > > Apparently you just have way too much time to > devote > > to these discussions. I know you will take even > > more time to reply to this e-mail, and as usual > come > > up with new conclusions that absolutely no one > from > > the prishtina-l(e) members that I know cares > about. > > > > It was explained to you in the beginning. The > > Prishtina-e list has been created due to the fact > > that most of the members in prishtina-l are > residing > > in Europe (Kosova, Albania, and other western > > European countries where English is not the > official > > language), and it's harder for them to read the > > English posts. After we received numerous > > complaints, we decided to create this list. > > > > I do not have the power to control your personal > > e-mails or prishtina-e(in case you think we have > > some type of monopoly running in here). You can > > knock yourself out by continuing your discussions > > here or using private e-mail. > > > > > > As far as your > > .... > > >(Does he live by the dictatorial policy of: "Do > as > > I > > >say and not as I do"?) > > .... > > statement > > > > I wrote messages in English thinking that you did > > not understand the rules that were written in > > Albanian. However, since you apparently understand > > Albanian, you ignored the rules anyway. > > > > Then you wrote... > > >I've printed the texts of my e-mail and the > > responses > > >I've gotten from Dardan and the others. Most > > everyone > > >I've shown them to is surprised and out-raged. It > > has > > >had an impact on what some of my fellow Americans > > now > > >think About Albanians. > > >Some of this stuff is being forwarded to our KFOR > > >forces in Kosova, as well as to some members of > our > > >congress. > > > > Dude, are you sure you live in America? The above > > statement just showed that you are only pretending > > to be an American... why the hell would KFOR or > the > > congress care about these e-mails? What a Good > > Samaritan you pretend to be man... Does the US > > government have any rewards for people like you? > Do > > you think that KFOR and the Congress would depend > on > > losers like yourself to make the decisions? How > > pathetic... > > > > KFOR in Kosova (dealing with Albanians on a daily > > basis) will wait for George Garza's e-mails when > > they make their decisions about Albanians... > > > > Dude, I ask you as a fellow co-listmember to read > > your e-mails twice before you send them to make > sure > > the members will read them to the end and not roll > > down on the floor laughing; or you will make them > > ban you from this list as well. > > > > > > > > Peace, > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > > ---------------------------------- > > From: George Garza > > Reply-To: prishtina-e at alb-net.com > > Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:13:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > > > Archives: > > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________________ Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e From kosova at jps.net Tue May 9 21:36:41 2000 From: kosova at jps.net (kosova at jps.net) Date: Tue May 9 21:36:41 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Political Prisoners - Time To ACT! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Etrit and other list members, Albin Kurti and the rest of the illegally detained prisoners of war, being inhumanely treated within serb jails, undoubtedly need our help. Stating that "We should do more" is an understatement. The prisoners ask, "What is taking so long? The war is over, why haven't you gotten us out yet!?" Obviously, it is not as easy as it appears, if it were, the issue of the political prisoners would not have been omitted from the peace agreements at the last moment to ensure the termination of the bombing campaign. We have set up a website: The Association of Political Prisoners, Kosova (www.khao.org/appkosova.htm) for the prisoners which includes an online petition along with a weekly newsletter, Alb-Net has created for us. There is also a Free Albin Kurti Website (www.FreeAlbinKurti.com) -- however our voices are still minimal. From several past messages, I see that there are voices out there, however many are not putting it where it can make an immediate difference in saving lives. And that is a shame. So far, over 800 prisoners have been reportedly released. However, there is an estimated figure of over 7,000 Albanians that are believed to be imprisoned. Names such as the praised, Ukshin Hoti, have not even shown up on the serb's roster -- what does that tell you? And how can we honestly sit back an accept a 12-year ruling for pediatrician Flora Brovina and a 15-year sentence for Albin Kurti, when knowingly they are innocent, but there was NO EVIDENCE even presented at the trial!! We didn't even stand publicly to express our disapproval! We should do more and we Must do more. I encourage those who are interested in helping, to contact myself or Alice Mead as soon as possible. Albin Kurti alone is being so brave during such a frightening and threatening time of his life. Open an Email and Write. RELEASE THE KOSOVAR POLITICAL PRISONERS FROM SERBIA NOW! Sincerely, Naida Dukaj -----Original Message----- From: prishtina-e-admin at alb-net.com [mailto:prishtina-e-admin at alb-net.com]On Behalf Of Etrit Bardhi Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 10:25 PM To: Albanian List Cc: prishtina-e at alb-net.com Subject: [Prishtina-E] From Spain (fwd) --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e we should do more for albin kurti, does anyone have any new information on him? etrit. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:24:58 +0200 From: paz ahora My name is Julio Rodriguez and I am the president of the Spanish NGO "Paz Ahora/ Paqe Tani". I met Albin Kurti in August 1998 when a team of our organisation was in Prishtin? in a mission searching about the situation of the human rights in your country. I suppose that to send him a message of support is almost impossible, but in Spain we will appreciate if you can send our words to him. The last dates of April and the first of May of this year (I mean last week), other activist of Paz Ahora and me were in Prishtin? and Mitrovica to supervise the disload of a convoy with humanitarian aid sending for our organisation to this last city and we had the opportunity to interview the people who participate in the hunger strike for the release of the political prisoners. Mr Gorani, the leader of the Trade Unions, was so polite to introduce us to the strikers. We have linked our main web page to yours and to the main page of the petition page for the release of the political prisoners, including in our page banners of both pages. We suggest an interchange of banners or links between our to pages (if you think this is interesting for you) Any case you may watch our solidarity work clicking in : http://www.nodo50.org/pazahora and send us your opinion, which will be very interesting for us. Julio Rodriguez President of Paz Ahora / Paqe Tani/Peace Now/ Mir Sada/ Pace Ora / Pau Ara. _______________________________________________________ Prishtina-E discussion forum: Prishtina-E at alb-net.com http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e From etrit at alb-net.com Tue May 9 23:31:06 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Tue May 9 23:31:06 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] CSM Article Message-ID: Christian Science Monitor says among other things regarding the return of serbs to kosova: The American plan dates to February, when the leader of the Serb Orthodox Church in Kosovo, Bishop Artemije, discussed Serb returns with Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in Washington. After that meeting, a State Department official who is also a Serb Orthodox priest visited Kosovo. He ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ made a dozen trips through the province and looked at scores of Serb villages. --- A State Dept. official who is a Serb Orthodox priest? Does anyone know his name? Read the full article at: http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/05/09/fp7s1-csm.shtml From puka at usa.net Wed May 10 00:43:17 2000 From: puka at usa.net (G.S) Date: Wed May 10 00:43:17 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Putin bad news for Serbia Message-ID: <20000510044315.16309.qmail@nwcst287.netaddress.usa.net> Putin's Victory is Bad News for Belgrade There are signs the Kremlin is distancing itself from Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic who has, once again, backed the wrong horse. By Daniel Sunter in Belgrade (BCR No. 134, 20-Apr-00) A shift in Russian policy towards Serbia is becoming increasingly apparent since Vladimir Putin took over the helm at the Kremlin last month. Even in the run-up to the presidential elections, observers in Belgrade and Moscow noticed that Putin never once mentioned the Balkans or Serbia during his campaign. Goran Svilanovic, president of the Civic Alliance of Serbia (GSS), commented, "Shortly before the start of the election, the Russian embassy distributed Putin's electoral manifesto to all the political parties in Serbia. It was quite clear from this document that Moscow has no intention of abandoning its policy of co-operation with the West. Putin's victory is bad news for the Belgrade regime." The Milosevic regime, on the other hand, invited the ultra-nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky for an official visit to Belgrade on the eve of the March 26 election. According to all the polls, Zhirinovsky -- who openly styled himself as a would-be dictator -- had no chance of winning the presidential race. The Serbian opposition criticised Belgrade's decision to invite Zhirinovsky, stressing that Serbia should woo parties and leaders who represent mainstream Russian politics and not extremists or communists. The Russian daily newspaper Kommersant wrote at the beginning of April that Moscow had taken a conscious decision to distance itself from the "hated" Yugoslav president. Russia, according to Kommersant, "has no wish to support the regime in Belgrade". According to a well-informed source close to the highest echelons of the Yugoslav Army, Russia has also broken off its military and technical agreement with Serbia. Aimed at restructuring and modernising the Yugoslav forces, the agreement was signed by Marshal Igor Sergeev, the Russian defense minister, and his Yugoslav counterpart, Pavle Bulatovic. Although the source refused to comment further about the details of the agreement, he stressed that Russia had unilaterally put the project on ice. He added, "The signal is crystal-clear. Putin's administration is sending out a clear message to the political and military leaders in Belgrade." The move was also prompted by new controls on the Russian defence ministry which mean that it can no longer act as a separate entity. In future, it will be obliged to co-ordinate its activities with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. A gas supply agreement between Russia and Serbia has also run into troubled waters. The Russian company Gasprom has decreased supplies threefold without informing Belgrade. The latest developments have taken Belgrade officials by surprise. An anonymous official from the Oil Industry of Serbia (NIS) told Belgrade media, "I don't know why this has happened, we have not been informed by Russia. There have been no problems up until now." The change in mood is all the more surprising because Russia is currently supplying gas to Serbia on credit, despite existing debts totalling more than $300 million. Shortly after the gas crisis, Russian foreign minister Igor Ivanov met with the Yugoslav ambassador in Moscow, Borislav Milosevic, the brother of President Slobodan Milosevic. He called upon the Yugoslav Federation to show greater flexibility towards the international community in solving the Kosovo problem. Ivanov added that Russia supports UN proposals to give Kosovo greater autonomy within the federation and that Belgrade should play a leading role in the process of stabilising the Balkan region. Sources in Moscow claim that, during the Contact Group summit at the beginning of April, Russia expressed solidarity with Western states over Serbian attempts to destabilise Montenegro. Russia took the side of the Montenegrin president, Milo Djukanovic. Moscow roundly condemned the Serbian blockade of Montenegro, commenting that Belgrade's policies had served to aggravate an already complicated situation. A Serbian government spokesman told IWPR, "Igor Ivanov's behaviour at the meeting with Bora Milosevic, compounded by problems with the gas supply and Russia's support of Montenegro have come as a real shock to Belgrade. Draskovic's invitation to Moscow was an even bigger surprise." Vuk Draskovic, leader of the Serbian Renewal Movement, SPO, opposition party, was the first Serbian politician to visit the Russian Federation following Putin's election victory on March 26. A SPO spokesman said Draskovic met with officials from the Russian foreign ministry to discuss early elections in Serbia, Kosovo and Montenegro as well as the lifting of sanctions against the Yugoslav Federation. Draskovic later said that he had gained Russian support for plans to hold early elections at all levels. Ivanov stressed that Russia stands firmly behind the democratisation of Serbia and opposes any policies of terror and repression. Belgrade was quick to react to Moscow's diplomatic manoeuvrings. Milutin Stojkovic, defence committee president and a senior member of the ruling Socialist Party of Serbia, SPS, accused the Russian foreign minister of pandering to the United States government. "If Ivanov's diplomacy represents nothing more than attempts to appease America, then Russian interests," Stojkovic told a Russian Duma delegation in Belgrade. Some of Milosevic's more reckless ventures may have cost him Russian support. In the past, his policy towards Russia has been littered with misjudgments. During the attempted coup against Mikhail Gorbachev in 1991, Belgrade voiced open support for the rebels who wanted to rebuild the Soviet Empire. Then Milosevic decided to throw his weight behind Zhirinovsky, hoping that a nationalist regime in Russia would guarantee Serbia a nuclear arsenal of her own. At the time, the Serbian media buzzed with rumours of a secret weapon which Zhirinovsky had allegedly presented to the government. After Zhirinovsky, Belgrade championed the Communist leader Gennady Zyuganov, who showed every sign of posing a real challenge to Boris Yeltsin in the 1996 presidential elections. But there may be more pragmatic motives behind the shift in Russian foreign policy towards Serbia. Putin may be attempting to show the West that his relationship with Serbia is based on sound economic judgments rather than emotional and ethnic ties. The Milosevic regime would therefore be forced to turn to the Far East and China in search of new allies. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From h-rengier at gmx.de Wed May 10 09:35:06 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Wed May 10 09:35:06 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Seeking pen pal Message-ID: <21728.957965629@www1.gmx.net> I am seeking for a long time some pen pal friends who could give some hint in my effords of learning the Albanian language. Should feel like corresponding with me in that regard, please do not hesitate to keep in touch,for I shall be grateful to pick up some expressions needed in our everyday language. I also would like to draw your attention to the fact that I have some slight knowledge of this marvellous language too, like the greetings and so on and so forth. Herewith I would like to leave you my web site; for I shall be honoured to say to you mire erthet. http://www.geocities.com/hany_20/ Looking forward to hearing from you. Tjeter Hany -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From george33030 at yahoo.com Wed May 10 23:46:49 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Wed May 10 23:46:49 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Message to Jennifer Message-ID: <20000511034641.15875.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Albi Qeli: As is well known among those who are IN THE KNOW about the Balkans, and are capable of seeing beyond the myopic way of thinking typical of the nationalist Albanians, Serbians and other extremists, there's NOTHING convoluted about my reasoning. I think you are wrong in claiming Serbians are butchers when (at least not all of them) have been engaged in the Balkan carnage, by the same token: not ALL of the Albanians are Angels either. The fact is that BOTH sides have innocent blood on their hands. Let's get real! (Serbs have more innocent blood on their hands given their history in Kosovo, Bosnia and Croatia.) NOBODY can claim to be completely innocent from the bloodshed of innocent men, women and children. Let's get it straight. If the Serbians who slaughtered innocent Albanians return to Kosovo, they can be captured and put to trial. If they remain in Serbia, they will NEVER be brought to justice and nothing will be done unless Milosevic is toppled and a truly democratic government in installed in Serbia. By the same token, those Albanians who have also committed war crimes must ALSO be put to trial. Justice MUST BE EQUAL under the law. No one gets a free lunch! As for your "borders" argument, it holds no logic. Just look at Prussia. Prussia was once the seat of Germanic power and might and a great power to be reckoned with. Prussia has now disappeared off the map and has been swallowed by Poland. By the same token, parts of the old Polish territories are now part of Russia and Germany. You don't see slaughter, violence, ethnic cleansing etc. being practiced in the name of nationalism as we've seen it occuring in the Balkans. If Kosova were to become independent, the Serbs would use this as an excuse to claim the so-called "Serbian Territories", by the same token, Macedonian Albanians would then claim territories inhabited by Albanians in Macedonia. Bulgaria would move attempt to claim her interests in eastern Macedonia. Greece would then use all this as an excuse to claim her interests in southern Macedonia. Then Turkey would move against the Greeks. Thus, as we Americans look at this situation as a powderkeg waiting for a small match to ignite the Balkans into a major conflict. This conflict would eventually engulf our country and many others into a third world war. Quite frankly, (as I've said it over and OVER again!): we're SICK and TIRED of the constant Balkan instability. In order to avoid all of this mess, it would be better for Kosova to (officially)remain a part of what is left of Yugoslavia, but at the same time she could be granted a high level of autonomous self-government (that will not persecute or discriminate against its Serbian, Gypsy, Turkish and Moslem populations) while it prepares itself for intergration into the European Union, which (as you may know), practically has no borders. In this way, most everybody can be happy because once the Balkans become a viable part of the European Union, Kosova and its sister Balkan regions will enjoy all of the benefits of such. In a world of a "Balkans Without Borders", everyone of these small nations will be a part of something much greater than they, and will together cast aside old hatreds and rivalries as their citizens travel throughout the Balkans without passports in much the same the Europeans (who at one time were bitter enemies among themselves) can now travel unencumbered throughout Europe. Sorry, but YOUR response to my Canadian analogy is: WRONG AGAIN! To begin with: (unlike Serbia), Canada, the U.S., England, or ANY other English-speaking nation would NEVER send English-speaking troops to harrass or threaten the French-speaking Canadians of Quebec. By the same token (unlike the KLA and other Albanian extremists), the French-speaking Canadians in Quebec would never harrass, attack or kill the English-speaking Canadians in Quebec. If Quebec were to become inedependent (and perhaps one day IT WILL), other countries would not be sucked into a major conflict since there would not be a war to begin with (the Canadians are much more civilized than YOU KNOW WHO!). AND, about your missinformed statement pertaining to "Serbs are not ready to return to kosova: WRONG AGAIN! The Kosovar Serbians ARE ready to return to their homes and properties in Kosova, but are afraid to do so because of the constant threat inflicted by the Kosovar Albanian extremists, especially those currently occupying the Serbian homes and properties in Kosova. And as for your silly "wake up and smell the coffee" comment: I've been WIDE AWAKE and have been smelling the coffee for a VERY long time. However, it's the stench of the mass graves, decaying bodies and the cries of the innocent Albanians, Serbians, Moslems and Turks which makes this too much of a bitter cup of coffee. A cup that one cannot drink of it ANY longer. --George --- Albi Qeli wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > George, > > Your spaghetti-like convoluted reasoning is no > reasoning at all. > > There is only one way to democracy, and that is free > elections. > > Then, if you want to care about the minorities, you > have to care about the > majority first. Do you want Albanians to cooperate > and forget their dead? > Don't ever tell them that you want to bring back the > same serb butchers to > rule them. Period. > > As for your statement: "Kosova is not like Canada" > -- that was precisely my > point -- only like this "Serbia is not Canada". > > Try sending English speaking troops in Quebec to > harass people during > elections (unthinkable, isn't it?), and see what > will happen. Try repleacing > all French speaking officials and police with > English speaking ones. See -- > maybe Quebec will end up worse than anything you > have seen so far. > > The reason why Albanian nation is in a sorry state > has a lot to do with the > partition of Kosova and other Albanian lands. Think > of drawing an > international border in places such as Berlin. > Ironically, it was in Berlin, > (back in 1878 if my memory serves me well,) where > Brittons and Russians and > Germans gathered and came up with the conclusion > that "the Albanian nation > does not even exist". They gave Albanian inhabited > lands to other balkan > states. The poorest of Albanian-inhabited lands were > left for the new > Albanian state. The north of today's Albania used to > trade with kosovar > cities of Prizren and so on. The imposition of an > international border > converted the north of Albania in a desert. > Similarly, in south, Janina > (Yanina) used to be the biggest economic center for > Albanians. > > Anyway, let's not get into history and why this and > why that. > > The solution to Kosova's problems -- the start > rather -- is clear: > elections. > > Maybe serbs will not return in the next two months > but that is mainly > because they are not ready -- they do not even > regret what they did to > Albanians. With time, they will wake up and smell > the coffee. Who knows, > they may want to return. > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Thu May 11 04:41:21 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Thu May 11 04:41:21 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To George References: <20000511034641.15875.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20000511084114.73426.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi George. I was actually trying to stay out of this discussion, but I can't help myself anymore. First, what makes you a person who is "in the know" about the Balkans. I'm not criticizing (yet), but I would like to know your credentials. Second, I do have to agree with your point about innocent blood on the hands of many groups. I would like to add what I consider to be innocent blood on innocent hands. For this point, I must exclude Kosovo Albanians, the KLA, etc., as I have never heard even a rumor about Albanians doing such things to there own people. During the wars created by the breakup of Yugoslavia, a significant number of soldiers forced to serve in the military. While I do not agree with drafting soldiers, I understand a countries need to do so. However, it is not these types of soldiers I am referring to. I will give you an example. A young man and his wife are living with their two small children in Croatia. This man is of mixed blood (Serb/Croat), and his wife is a Serb. He had been raised to believe he was a "Yugoslav," and wanted nothing to do with war. Living in Croatia became difficult during the war, and his wife was afraid for the children. The family fled to Yugoslavia. Within 48 hours of their arrival in Yugoslavia, a group of men came in, pointed a gun to his head, and threatened to kill his family if he did not go to the army the next day. He was no only forced to serve, but sent to the front in Croatia, where casualties were high, and he may have been forced to fight against friends or family. This is what I mean about innocent blood on innocent hands. Though the number is relatively small, some have blood on their hands that belongs on the hands of others. To the borders argument: What about pre-Prussia? The Lithuanian Duchy once contained parts of what is now Belarus. But, Prussia is bit different. There is not a "Prussian" ethnic group. It was always a conglomeration. Poland is a better bet in the argument. There is a big difference between that situation, and the situation of the former Yugoslavia. The borders of Poland, and even the territory that was once Prussia, were the result of war. Former Yugoslavia was an invention of the west which eliminated borders, instead of creating them. If Yugoslavia had been created in a similar manner to north-eastern Europe, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, etc. would have remained independent nations, and there would have been much less bloodshed in the Balkans. (I won't say there would have been none, because it would not have solved the question of Kosovo.) Keep in mind that Montenegro has as much right to leave Yugoslavia as anyone else, and maybe more. Montenegro had a long history as an independent nation. As far as reclaiming interests, I would adjust the list. Hungary claiming Vojvodina, Macedonia claiming northern Greece (not the other way around), Austria claiming northern Italy (Sued-Tirol)? The governments wouldn't like it, but I bet a significant portion of the populations in these areas would go for it! Please don't talk about "we Americans." Not everyone agrees with your reasoning. As a US citizen who has lived in Europe for years, most of it in the Balkans, I find that my opinion often differs greatly from yours. Besides, calling ourselves "Americans" is a bit ego-centric. Brazilians, Mexicans, Canadians, Colombians, etc. are all "Americans." (It is two continents, after all.) Keep in mind, the US wasn't always an island of peace. We've had our share of wars, including a very bloody civil war. We just tend to forget with the passage of time. Do you think the people of the Balkans aren't tired of instability? The vast majority of the people did not create the situation of the last decade. They are just forced to live with it, and try to survive. In addition, violent conflicts are hard to avoid with the world indirectly supporting them. Weapons have to come from somewhere. Besides, the NATO bombings were good for the US economy. The EU was a major competitor. War in Europe devalued European currencies. The status of Kosovo is not a simple question. Kosovo had self government before. It was taken away. If it was given autonomy within Yugoslavia again, what guarantees are there that the circle would not repeat? None. So how can anyone reinstate a status quo that may just cost thousands more lives, and lead to an even bloodier war? I think there should also be some waiting games on discussions on the status of Kosovo. Whether Montenegro remains in Yugoslavia is a big factor. With the exception of Slovenia, no part of former Yugoslavia is going to make it into the EU in the next 10 years. Many EU countries are far too xenophobic, and afraid of "easterners" taking jobs from their citizens. The current decline of the Euro doesn't help, either. EU countries are still fighting over contributions and subsidies to current members. They don't want to let in anyone else they have to pay for. George, you should try living in the EU for a while. Your arguments about free travel, etc. sound good, but are not so great in practice. Especially to live and work in a member state other than your own. A look at motivations for returning Serbs. Yes some are genuinely ready to go back. Unfortunately, some of the first to return will not be. A significant number of the Serbs that are to be re-patriated are the Krajina Serb refugees. They were forcibly settled in Kosovo when they fled Krajina. They have no choice. If the government wants to send them there, they have to go. They have no where else to go, and no means of survival. The same for many other Serbs. They are not welcome in Serbia. They have no where to go, and no means of survival unless they return. For most, it is not a burning desire to return to their homes, it is simply that they have no other means of survival. I can understand the fear that you talk about. But it goes both directions. Albanians in Kosovo lived in nothing but fear for the past decade. Innocent people were senselessly victimized and brutalized. Many people have grown up with nothing but fear and hatred. You can't expect people to forget about this overnight, and start getting along. Like everything, it takes time. I think it will only be the younger generation, those who are now too young to really remember the past, who will truely be able to live "normal" lives. Jennifer From fbowdrey at hotmail.com Thu May 11 12:25:16 2000 From: fbowdrey at hotmail.com (fiona bowdrey) Date: Thu May 11 12:25:16 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <20000511122505.66425.qmail@hotmail.com> hi Etrit, I am new to all this, but I like this site! I am very much a Kosovar Albanian supporter and I am always looking for ways to help. I live in London, UK, and have a few Albanian friends. I am trying to learn the language, so if you have any useful tips? Do you know if there are any internet sites in Lipjan? or near by? I have to say that I can find no sympathy at all for Serbs in Kosova at the moment,having just watched a documentry about missing Albanians and the things that have happened to them. This along with the stories from my friends about members of their families makes them worse than anything I can think of! Not just the "military" but the people that one day are friends and the next are torturing and killing women and children. Before I even new any Albanians, I also have Croatian friends who have also suffered somthing similar at the hands of the Serbs. By the way can anyone tell me what "mire nashnash", means, that might not be quite right but it was somthing similar! from Fiona, ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Thu May 11 13:01:01 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Thu May 11 13:01:01 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <000e01bfbb7a$8a68ee40$80acf880@xyz.uic.edu> >I live in London, UK, and have a few Albanian friends. I am trying to learn >the language, so if you have any useful tips? not quite the Lipjan dialect ;) but this is better than nothing: http://www.argjiro.net/fjalor (there are a couple of links to Albanian language sites in the above page); From etrit at alb-net.com Thu May 11 17:24:15 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Thu May 11 17:24:15 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Albanian Dictionary In-Reply-To: <000e01bfbb7a$8a68ee40$80acf880@xyz.uic.edu> Message-ID: The page/dictionary that Albi mentioned is actually very nice. It also has a link to another useful site: Learn Albanian by Qezar Kurti: http://pages.prodigy.net/qezark/ckalbworld.html On Thu, 11 May 2000, Albi Qeli wrote: > http://www.argjiro.net/fjalor From BShehu7580 at aol.com Fri May 12 01:34:28 2000 From: BShehu7580 at aol.com (BShehu7580 at aol.com) Date: Fri May 12 01:34:28 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] The Kosovo Cover-Up Message-ID: <5b.5b6875a.264cf1d7@aol.com> The Kosovo Cover-Up Kosovo Commander: General Wesley Clark, NATO's outgoing Supreme Allied Commander (Michael J.N. Bowles) NATO said it won a great victory, but the war did very little damage to Serb forces. By not conceding this, the Pentagon may mislead future presidents about the limits of U.S. power. A NEWSWEEK exclusive It was acclaimed as the most successful air campaign ever. "A turning point in the history of warfare," wrote the noted military historian John Keegan, proof positive that "a war can be won by airpower alone." At a press conference last June, after Serbian strongman Slobodan Milosevic agreed to pull his Army from Kosovo at the end of a 78-day aerial bombardment that had not cost the life of a single NATO soldier or airman, Defense Secretary William Cohen declared, "We severely crippled the [Serb] military forces in Kosovo by destroying more than 50 percent of the artillery and one third of the armored vehicles." Displaying colorful charts, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Henry Shelton claimed that NATO's air forces had killed "around 120 tanks," "about 220 armored personnel carriers" and "up to 450 artillery and mortar pieces."... .............................................................................. ............................................ Read the full story at :newsweek.com/nw-srv/printed/us/na/a19546-2000may7.htm From juniku at hotmail.com Fri May 12 03:39:09 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Fri May 12 03:39:09 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] WorldNews.com article: "Serb Reporter Handed Over to Court" Message-ID: <200005120738.IAA20396@mail.livenews.com> This email was sent from http://worldnews.com/ WorldNews.com is your gateway to stories from the World's Best online news services. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Associated Press (Thu 11 May 2000) Serb Reporter Handed Over to Court NIS, Yugoslavia (AP) -- A Serb reporter who was detained by police for writing about alleged atrocities committed by the Yugoslav army in Kosovo was handed over to a military court Thursday and could face espionage charges. Miroslav Filipovic, a reporter for Belgrade's independent Danas daily, was arrested Monday at his home in the central Serbian town of Kraljevo. On Thursday, he was transferred to the military court in the southern Serbian city of Nis, about 120 miles south of Belgrade. "Mr. Filipovic has been brought to us and he is in detention ... under suspicion that he committed the criminal act of espionage," said Col. Vukadin Milojevic, who heads the court. A decision on whether to charge Filipovic was due by Saturday. Last month, Filipovic wrote about an alleged secret Yugoslav army intelligence report on soldiers' atrocities against Kosovo Albanians during NATO's 78-day intervention to stop a government crackdown in the Serbian province. He wrote that the report included testimony from a Yugoslav army commander admitting he watched in horror as a soldier decapitated a three-year-old ethnic Albanian boy in front of his family. Another described how tanks in his unit indiscriminately shelled a Kosovo Albanian village before paramilitary police moved in and massacred the survivors. Police inspectors searched Filipovic's apartment before arresting him, confiscating documents and articles. Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic's regime has been cracking down on independent media, banning and fining newspapers critical of his policies. Scores of independent reporters and opposition activists were detained Monday and Tuesday, when the government launched a major sweep to block a planned opposition rally in Pozarevac, Milosevic's hometown. In a further sign of the government's crackdown, a Pozarevac judge was removed from office and the local state prosecutor offered his resignation Thursday, after both officials had attended the opposition rally, the private Beta news agency reported. Meanwhile, opposition parties announced another anti-government rally in the Yugoslav capital and more protests throughout Serbia, including Pozarevac. Opposition leaders said the protest in Belgrade, scheduled for Monday, was "a matter of honor." Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From h-rengier at gmx.de Fri May 12 07:11:05 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Fri May 12 07:11:05 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Albanian Dictionary References: Message-ID: <7038.958129863@www11.gmx.net> I dashur Etrit Bardhi, Falemnederit shume for sending me the Albanian Dictionary web site as well as the www.page.prodigy.net/gezark/ckalbworld/htm. I feel like a dream has finally come true, minde you the dictionary needs some improvement, for it was lacking many important vocabularies that we need in our everyday life, nevertheless, it is a good start to which I am entirely grateful. Tungjatjeta vlav im Hany Mekkawi Rengier -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From besnik at alb-net.com Fri May 12 12:09:54 2000 From: besnik at alb-net.com (Besnik Pula) Date: Fri May 12 12:09:54 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Fwd: Alert! Vote in Senate to remove US Troops! Message-ID: Dear friends, it is important that you contact your senator to tell them to vote against the proposed bill. Please note that you can find contact information for your state's senators by going to http://politics.yahoo.com and entering your ZIP code. Thanks, Besnik --- begin forwarded text From: IZherka at aol.com Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:43:10 EDT Subject: Alert! Vote in Senate to remove US Troops! To: NAACDC at aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear Friend: The Senate has begun debate on a measure that would force the withdrawal of American troops from Kosova by July 2001. A vote on the measure will probably take place sometime next week. A similar measure was offered and defeated in the House in March. Below is a letter we sent to the Senate on this issue. As you know, American withdrawal from Kosova would be a DISASTER. WE MUST DEFEAT THIS MEASURE. I urge you to write and call Senators to express your views. Below is a list of Senators that represent large Albanian-American Communities. You can reach their offices by calling (202) 225-3121 and asking for the particular office. Once you get the office, ask for the foreign affairs legislative assistant and express your views to that person. Thanks. Ilir Zherka Spencer Abraham (R-MI) Barbara Boxer (D-CA) John Breaux (D-LA) Chris Dodd (D-CT) Richard Durbin (D-IL) -- Voted for the Amendment in Committee Russ Feingold (D-WI) Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) -- Voted for the Amendment in Committee Peter Fitzgerald (D-IL) Bob Graham (D-FL) Ted Kennedy (D-MA) John Kerry (D-MA) Herbert Kohl (D-WI) -- Voted for the Amendment in Committee Mary Landrieu (D-LA) Frank Launtenberg (D-NJ) -- Voted against the Amendment in Committee Carl Levin (D-MI) Joe Lieberman (D-CT) Mitch McConnell (R-KY) -- Voted for the Amendment in Committee Daniel Patrick Moynihan(D-NY) Chuch Schumer (D-NY) Bob Torricelli (D-NJ) ______________________________________________________________________ TWO-THIRDS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE WE SHOULD KEEP OUR TROOPS IN KOSOVA May 12, 2000 Dear Senator: There are some in the Congress who believe that we should set a deadline for withdrawal of our troops in Kosova. That position, however, is at odds with the overwhelming majority of the American people. Furthermore, we are certain that Kosova and the region would quickly descend into chaos and perhaps war if we were to withdraw our troops. A national poll conducted in March by Penn, Schoen and Berland, showed that two-thirds of the American people believe the U.S. military should stay in Kosova to help the transition to democracy, protect the people, and finish the job we began. A summary of the poll is on the other side of this page. The American people understand that without U.S. military leadership in Kosova, things would be much worse. In fact, our European allies strongly resisted intervention in Kosova, even while the Serbs were committing genocide there. Without U.S. leadership, Kosova today would be a wasteland, depopulated of its indigenous people, and the Balkans would certainly still be at war. The Albanians place enormous trust in the United States. Without our military presence, they would quickly loose faith in the peacekeeping mission. Moreover, by establishing a date certain for withdrawal of U.S. troops, Serbs will be encouraged to block all progress in Kosova until we leave and in the meantime make our presence there unbearable. It is probably no accident that immediately after the Committee vote on the Byrd-Warner amendment, hundreds of Serbs in two separate instances attacked and harassed American troops in Kosova. We should listen to the American people: lets keep our military in Kosova until we help complete the transition to democracy, ensure security for its people, and finish the job we began. Sincerely, Ilir Zherka Executive Director _____________________ KOSOVA STATUS POLL* March 20, 2000 Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates Among the poll's findings: ? 51 percent say they supported the NATO bombing campaign last year. ? 53 percent say they support the current status quo in Kosova, with the province under the control of NATO and the United Nations. ? 66 percent of Americans say they believe the U.S. military should stay in Kosova to help the transition to democracy, protect the people, and finish the job we began. ? 79 percent of Americans support the creation of an independent Kosova with a democratically elected government. ? 64 percent choose a democratic independent Kosova over a Kosova with some measure of autonomy within Serbia. Only 21 percent support restoring Serb control over Kosova. ? If three options are offered - an independent democratic Kosova, creating a Kosova with some measure of autonomy within Serbia, or maintaining the status quo under the UN and NATO indefinitely - there is still a majority supporting independence. ? 89 percent of Americans want any new independent Kosova to guarantee political, civil and religious freedoms for Serbs and other minorities. *Penn, Schoen conducted a total of 804 telephone interviews between March 16 and 19, 2000. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.46%. The poll was commissioned by the National Albanian American Council, in conjunction with the Dibrane Association of America, the Pan-Albanian Federation of America ("Vatra"), and the Democratic League of Kosova for Northern America and Canada. For a complete version of the poll, please call at (202) 416-1627. --- end forwarded text From etrit at alb-net.com Fri May 12 17:03:49 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Fri May 12 17:03:49 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Meet a friend (fwd) Message-ID: please reply directly if you have any info. etrit. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:11:28 +0200 From: Angel Encinas To: support at alb-net.com Subject: Meet a friend Assalamu alaikum, dear brothers! Please, help me know the adress of Ms. Afrodita Mustafa in Pristina (Kosova). She was refugee in Spain during the last war and now see lives in Pristina. Thank you very much in advance. Ma salama. From juniku at hotmail.com Sat May 13 04:12:22 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Sat May 13 04:12:22 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] JANUSZ BUGAJSKI & DANIEL N. NELSON: The final cut Message-ID: <20000513081214.21117.qmail@hotmail.com> > >JANUSZ BUGAJSKI & DANIEL N. NELSON: The final cut > > >Copyright ? 2000 Nando Media >Copyright ? 2000 Christian Science Monitor Service > > > > >From Time to Time: Nando's in-depth look at the 20th century > > > >Christian Science Monitor > >WASHINGTON and GARMISCH-PARTENKIRCHEN, Germany (May 11, 2000 8:13 p.m. EDT >http://www.nandotimes.com) - The Balkan endgame draws near, and it should. > >After a disastrous decade, much of the Yugoslavia of Versailles and Josip >Broz Tito is a charred ruin. Only Slovenia escaped the military destruction >and/or economic trauma of warfare, genocide, refugees, and occupation. >Croatia suffered grievously from war damage and the psyche of nationalism >from which the country is only now emerging. Macedonia, spared armed >conflict, has nevertheless been forced to grapple with an immense flood of >refugees in 1999, and the discomfiting status as a NATO dependency. > >It isn't over. Kosovo's nonstate status, occupied but not governed, >separated but not sovereign, cannot continue. Kosovar Albanians cannot live >within a state led from Belgrade. Period. Multiethnicity has been killed, >literally and figuratively. > >Independence for Kosovo is now essential, even if it is not optimal. No >other outcome will "work," although the notion of anything "working" >overstates the potential for self-governance. Kosovo will not be ruled the >way we'd like, and Pristina-directed policies will not be those we want. >Still, an endless occupation qua protectorate offers nothing but cost and >danger. > >More important is the future of Serbia and its rump Yugoslavia. In Serbia, >there are no credible signs a democratic transition, precipitated by >opposition electoral success la Croatia, can be anticipated. Despite large >protest rallies, Serbia possesses no united mass support for ousting the >ruling clique. In fact, Milosevic consistently comes first in public >opinion >polls, and opposition politicians are widely perceived as corrupt, >incompetent, or national traitors. Though two-thirds of the public >apparentl >y would vote for one of the opposition parties, many of these people still >view Milosevic as a hero protecting the victimized nation against foreign >threats. > >There is no Croatian-model transition in Serbia's future. Indeed, evidence >mounts that Serbia is more likely to undergo violent turmoil than peaceful >transformation. The circle of violence and vendetta is accelerating in >Serbia. The "war at the top" in Belgrade literally is a struggle for >survival among a small clique of war criminals and profiteers. They'd >evidently murder their most loyal allies to remain in power, keep stolen >riches, and stay out of The Hague. > >Later this year, renewed conflict leading to warfare is at least possible, >if not probable, in Montenegro, Kosovo, and in Serbia itself. Serb >preparations for violent intervention against Montenegro's President Milo >Djukanovic are clear and present. The buildup of paramilitary forces >alongside the Yugoslav Second Army inside Montenegro is evident - the >former >being a force loyal to Milosevic and more reliable for a violent showdown >with Montenegro's special police forces. > >Kosovo is far from quiet. Serbs claim their troops will be back when the >U.N. mandate expires in the summer, and continue to try to partition the >region, slicing off the valuable Kosovska Mitrovica area; at the same time, >Albanians seek the annexation of Southwest Serbia. Both sides seek to >provoke and escalate. It will be a hot summer. > >Within Serbia itself, the opposition has launched fresh campaigns and has >already assembled one massive protest rally in Belgrade last month. >Milosevic has countered with a campaign to eliminate independent media, >regroup military forces, and call up reservists. He and the >socialist/nationalist coalition seem to be preparing for local and federal >elections and for military action in southwestern Serbia or Montenegro. >Social protests, provocations, and armed conflicts within Serbia and rump >Yugoslavia are a good bet. > >NATO and the United States will be unable to stand aside. After dropping >bombs and deploying tens of thousands of alliance troops to occupy and >pacify Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo, staying out of Montenegro will be >impossible. But we'd be foolish to expect Serbia's internal conflicts to >remain internal. Refugee floods and, perhaps, civil war would affect and >spill into surrounding countries. > >Before this scenario begins, let's recognize that Balkan stability and >Yugoslavia's existence are in direct contradiction. Containment, neglect, >or >wishful thinking are not viable solutions. > >The dismemberment of Milosevic's rump Yugoslavia is an eventuality on which >we can depend. Timing is uncertain, but it won't be long. Three more viable >states - independent Montenegro and Kosovo, plus a democratized Serbia - >may >be the most stable outcome. > >The democratization of Serbia isn't assured, won't be quiet, and might be >one of the most costly transitions of the post-communist era. > >Still, NATO and Washington had best come to grips with an uncomfortable >truth - the path to long-term peace and prosperity in a troubled region >such >as the Balkans may lie directly through a period of intense instability. > >Attempting to produce stability when conditions for long-term security are >absent is a guarantee of failure. In Southeastern Europe, the "cause" of >instability isn't just Milosevic, but what the Serbian dictator represents. > >To end Balkan instability requires far more than bombing from 15,000 feet >and peace-enforcement. It may, ultimately, require military force to ensure >the dismemberment of Yugoslav remnants. To turn our backs on that >likelihood >would be historically blind and politically naive. We ought not repeat >those >kind of Balkan mistakes yet again. > >Janusz Bugajski is director of East European programs at the Center for >Strategic and International Studies. Daniel N. Nelson is professor at the >George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies. Views expressed >here are the authors' and do not represent their institutions. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From george33030 at yahoo.com Sun May 14 20:14:03 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Sun May 14 20:14:03 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <20000515001356.3876.qmail@web4502.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Fiona, Though my comprehension of the Albanian language is still somewhat limited, I do believe that the phrases: "mire" means GOOD and "nasht" means something like: NEVERMIND (as in: Don't worry about it). When you hear: "nasht, nasht" (the word: "nasht" is being repeated twice. --George " --- fiona bowdrey wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > hi Etrit, > > I am new to all this, but I like this site! > > I am very much a Kosovar Albanian supporter and I am > always looking for ways > to help. > > I live in London, UK, and have a few Albanian > friends. I am trying to learn > the language, so if you have any useful tips? > > Do you know if there are any internet sites in > Lipjan? or near by? > > I have to say that I can find no sympathy at all for > Serbs in Kosova at the > moment,having just watched a documentry about > missing Albanians and the > things that have happened to them. This along with > the stories from my > friends about members of their families makes them > worse than anything I can > think of! Not just the "military" but the people > that one day are friends > and the next are torturing and killing women and > children. > > Before I even new any Albanians, I also have > Croatian friends who have also > suffered somthing similar at the hands of the Serbs. > > By the way can anyone tell me what "mire nashnash", > means, that might not be > quite right but it was somthing similar! > > from Fiona, > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From george33030 at yahoo.com Sun May 14 22:08:45 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Sun May 14 22:08:45 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To George Message-ID: <20000515020838.29747.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Jennifer, Sorry it's taken me a while to return to my PC. I've been out of town, but now I'm back. How can you be so blind as to say that SOME members of the KLA haven't engaged in the slaughter of innocent Serbians and OTHER Kosovars? Your argument that "Albanians aren't killing each other" doesn't hold water. Some ex-KLA leaders ARE at this time are being murdered by Albanians themselves (for example:Commander Drini). As far as your argument pertaining to "innocent blood on the hands of innocent people": I was not referring to THOSE types of cases in my previous message. As far as your argument about: "The former Yugoslavia was an invention of the West": You ARE VERY WRONG. Prior to WWI, and during the 19th Century, a rebirth of nationalism occurred among the Balkan Slavs. From the rebirth of all these nationalist movements emerged the Croat "Ilirian Movement", which became the most famous of all the nationalist movements of the time. The manifest of the Ilirian Movement called for the unification of the Southern Slavic territories as well as the liberation of these territories from the imperialist powers (The Ottoman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire). As for your Montenegro Argument: Remember that Petar Petrovic Njegos, the most famous historical figure in Montenegran history, was also a strong proponent of such a unification. Under Titi, Montenegro's people have a history of being the most proud Yugoslavs. As for your argument of "Hungary claiming Vojvodina": WRONG AGAIN. Less then 20 percent of Vojvodina's population is Hungarian and more than 60 percent is Serbian. You have to remember that there are OTHER ethnic groups also living in Vojvodina (Croats, Rumanians, Slovaks, Czecks, Rusins, Gypsies) making it the most diverse territory in the former Yugoslavia. It's ridiculous to imagine that Macedonia would mobilize against Greece as you have erroneously implied. You've probably assumed this due to the problems involving Greece's refusal to officially recognize The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia due to the region choosing to name itself the Republic of Macedonia. (In the United Nations, this country is known as: The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and NOT as: The Republic of Macedonia) At the time, Greece's argument was that this name implied the territories which are part of northern Greece (An area that IS NOT part a of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). Greece has never had good relations with Macedonia and throughout history, Serbia and Greece have used Macedonia as a bargaining chip between themselves. Who was claiming what during the negotiations (proposed by Milosevic) between Serbia and Greece pertaining to a confederation between them during the early 1990s when these two nations were considering that Macedonia would have to join the proposed confederation? Therefore, your assumption that the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia would mobilize its forces against Greece does NOT HOLD WATER. When I talk about "We Americans", I do so as a citizen born and raised in the United States of America, as opposed to some of the people I have dialogued with at this site who are mainly of European/Balkan origins. Of course your opinion will differ greatly from mine due to the fact that (as you say) you've "living in the Balkans and in the EU for a long time. See what happens when you stay away from home for so long?: You are bound to loose sight of what Mainstream America (The U.S.) says and thinks. As for your argument: "The American Continents, etc. You and I know BOTH know that (as does the rest of the world) when anyone commonly refers to "Americans" in NATIONAL terms, they are referring to WE, the people of the United States. I recognize the fact that everyone living from Canada to the southern tip of Tierra Del Fuego IS an American (North American, Central American and South American) when it comes to describing people in CONTINENTAL terms. Therefore, THIS argument of yours is mute and irrelevant. I agree with your argument about "the people of the Balkans are tired of all the fighting.However, they will get even MORE tired if they don't stop their hostilities NOW, and not at some later or unforeseen date when even MORE innocent men, women and children are slaughtered. You might argue that the great powers have to do more. But the fact is that if these people don't have the political will to get out of their endless circle of carnage NOW, nobody can help them. As for your "Weapons." argument: Keep in mind that the weapons used by BOTH the Serbian AND KLA forces in the Kosovar ground war, ONLY a small percentage came from the Western Countries, most of the weapons used were produced in the Balkan region (The AK-47 is NOT a western-designed rifle. So who profited from the sale of these weapons? (No other than the Balkan war profiters: Serbs, Albanians from Albania, Croats, etc.) As for your argument pertaining to the "Kosovar self government": During the communist era, Albanians who held power in Kosova were often discriminating against other ethnic groups such as the Serbs, Moslems, Turks and Gypsies. Of course, you may say that everyone was "equal under the laws", however, those laws were not being enforced but those in power and favoritism was rendered to the Kosovar Albanians, but not the other Kosovars. I'm aware of the fact that Serbia was still controlling the police and army, but the institutions such as universities, industries, work places, etc. were controlled by Kosovar Albanians who freely discriminated against the other ethnic groups. This discrimination was used by Milosevic to take away Kosova's autonomy and the Serbs also took advantage of this situation and used this Kosovar Albanian discrimination as a pretext and exaggerated the situation even further in order to justify their Serbian repression of Kosova. The bottom line is: Unless ALL of the Balkans END their historic inter-ethnic hostilities NOW, not LATER and are eventually integrated into the EU, there will NEVER be peace in that region and our American forces will not come home as we desire in this country. Perhaps, the only way for peace to come to the Balkans is: Through major economic investments by our country, the EU and other developed countries (such as Japan). This basic method worked for Japan and Germany after WW-II. -So! There you have it, my dear! --George --- Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > Hi George. > > I was actually trying to stay out of this > discussion, but I can't help > myself anymore. > > First, what makes you a person who is "in the know" > about the Balkans. I'm > not criticizing (yet), but I would like to know your > credentials. > > Second, I do have to agree with your point about > innocent blood on the hands > of many groups. I would like to add what I consider > to be innocent blood on > innocent hands. For this point, I must exclude > Kosovo Albanians, the KLA, > etc., as I have never heard even a rumor about > Albanians doing such things > to there own people. > > During the wars created by the breakup of > Yugoslavia, a significant number > of soldiers forced to serve in the military. While I > do not agree with > drafting soldiers, I understand a countries need to > do so. However, it is > not these types of soldiers I am referring to. I > will give you an example. A > young man and his wife are living with their two > small children in Croatia. > This man is of mixed blood (Serb/Croat), and his > wife is a Serb. He had been > raised to believe he was a "Yugoslav," and wanted > nothing to do with war. > Living in Croatia became difficult during the war, > and his wife was afraid > for the children. The family fled to Yugoslavia. > Within 48 hours of their > arrival in Yugoslavia, a group of men came in, > pointed a gun to his head, > and threatened to kill his family if he did not go > to the army the next day. > He was no only forced to serve, but sent to the > front in Croatia, where > casualties were high, and he may have been forced to > fight against friends > or family. This is what I mean about innocent blood > on innocent hands. > Though the number is relatively small, some have > blood on their hands that > belongs on the hands of others. > > To the borders argument: > What about pre-Prussia? The Lithuanian Duchy once > contained parts of what is > now Belarus. But, Prussia is bit different. There is > not a "Prussian" ethnic > group. It was always a conglomeration. Poland is a > better bet in the > argument. > There is a big difference between that situation, > and the situation of the > former Yugoslavia. The borders of Poland, and even > the territory that was > once Prussia, were the result of war. Former > Yugoslavia was an invention of > the west which eliminated borders, instead of > creating them. If Yugoslavia > had been created in a similar manner to > north-eastern Europe, Croatia, > Serbia, Montenegro, etc. would have remained > independent nations, and there > would have been much less bloodshed in the Balkans. > (I won't say there would > have been none, because it would not have solved the > question of Kosovo.) > > Keep in mind that Montenegro has as much right to > leave Yugoslavia as anyone > else, and maybe more. Montenegro had a long history > as an independent > nation. > > As far as reclaiming interests, I would adjust the > list. Hungary claiming > Vojvodina, Macedonia claiming northern Greece (not > the other way around), > Austria claiming northern Italy (Sued-Tirol)? The > governments wouldn't like > it, but I bet a significant portion of the > populations in these areas would > go for it! > > Please don't talk about "we Americans." Not everyone > agrees with your > reasoning. As a US citizen who has lived in Europe > for years, most of it in > the Balkans, I find that my opinion often differs > greatly from yours. > Besides, calling ourselves "Americans" is a bit > ego-centric. Brazilians, > Mexicans, Canadians, Colombians, etc. are all > "Americans." (It is two > continents, after all.) > > Keep in mind, the US wasn't always an island of > peace. We've had our share > of wars, including a very bloody civil war. We just > tend to forget with the > passage of time. Do you think the people of the > Balkans aren't tired of > instability? The vast majority of the people did not > create the situation of > the last decade. They are just forced to live with > it, and try to survive. > In addition, violent conflicts are hard to avoid > with the world indirectly > supporting them. Weapons have to come from > somewhere. Besides, the NATO > bombings were good for the US economy. The EU was a > major competitor. War in > Europe devalued European currencies. > > The status of Kosovo is not a simple question. > Kosovo had self government > before. It was taken away. If it was given autonomy > within Yugoslavia again, > what guarantees are there that the circle would not > repeat? None. So how can > anyone reinstate a status quo that may just cost > thousands more lives, and > lead to an even bloodier war? I think there should > also be some waiting > games on discussions on the status of Kosovo. > Whether Montenegro remains in > Yugoslavia is a big factor. > > With the exception of Slovenia, no part of former > Yugoslavia is going to > make it into the EU in the next 10 years. Many EU > countries are far too > xenophobic, and afraid of "easterners" taking jobs > from their citizens. The > current decline of the Euro doesn't help, either. EU > countries are still > fighting over contributions and subsidies to current > members. They don't > want to let in anyone else they have to pay for. > > George, you should try living in the EU for a while. > Your arguments about > free travel, etc. sound good, but are not so great > in practice. Especially > to live and work in a member state other than your > own. > > A look at motivations for returning Serbs. Yes some > are genuinely ready to > go back. Unfortunately, some of the first to return > will not be. A > significant number of the Serbs that are to be > re-patriated are the Krajina > Serb refugees. They were forcibly settled in Kosovo > when they fled Krajina. > They have no choice. If the government wants to send > them there, they have > to go. They have no where else to go, and no means > of survival. The same for > many other Serbs. They are not welcome in Serbia. > They have no where to go, > and no means of survival unless they return. For > most, it is not a burning > desire to return to their homes, it is simply that > they have no other means > of survival. > > I can understand the fear that you talk about. But > it goes both directions. > Albanians in Kosovo lived in nothing but fear for > the past decade. Innocent > people were senselessly victimized and brutalized. > Many people have grown up > with nothing but fear and hatred. You can't expect > people to forget about > this overnight, and start getting along. Like > everything, it takes time. I > think it will only be the younger generation, those > who are now too young to > really remember the past, who will truely be able to > live "normal" lives. > > Jennifer > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Sun May 14 22:39:07 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Sun May 14 22:39:07 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <005601bfbe26$cdf3b9c0$d0aaf880@xyz.uic.edu> Milosevic and his government have proclaimed the serb students' organization OTPOR a terrorist organization. The same government has been calling Albanians "terrorists" for a long while now. In the end, what goes around come around. Serbs will suffer on their backs everything that they caused all other non-serb yugoslavs to suffer. They elected Milosevic to kick Albanians' asses. Now they are in a mess. Milosevic is kicking their serb asses. Tough luck. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_748000/748381.stm From juniku at hotmail.com Mon May 15 15:36:29 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Mon May 15 15:36:29 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] WorldNews.com article: "Clinton Facing Showdown on Kosovo" Message-ID: <200005151935.UAA05359@mail.livenews.com> This email was sent from http://worldnews.com/ WorldNews.com is your gateway to stories from the World's Best online news services. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Associated Press (Mon 15 May 2000) Clinton Facing Showdown on Kosovo WASHINGTON (AP) -- This week could be a decisive one for President Clinton's policy of keeping U.S. troops in Kosovo, with showdowns likely in the Senate and House that could ultimately force withdrawal of the peacekeepers next year. In the Senate, there will be a tangle over bipartisan language in a routine military construction spending bill requiring the Americans' removal from the breakaway Yugoslav province beginning July 1, 2001, unless Congress votes to keep them there. And there will be a renewed effort by a group of Democrats and Republicans in the House to require the troops' withdrawal unless Clinton certifies that Europeans are delivering promised aid for rebuilding the violence-shattered Balkan enclave. The deadline would be next April 1. Administration officials oppose both provisions, even though final decisions would not have to be made until after the next president takes office. But in the face of widespread congressional skepticism about U.S. efforts in Kosovo, White House prospects for stopping some form of restrictions on American forces there are unclear. The administration's best hope may be rallying enough votes -- more than one-third the members voting in either chamber -- to signal that a Clinton veto would be sustained. That ultimately could lead to watered-down language, either before or after an actual veto. "There's going to be a strong debate on it," said Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Va., a co-author of the Senate language. "Anytime you have that much interest in a debate, you have to wait and see" about the outcome. Congressional opposition to the 5,900 U.S. troops in the NATO-led, 37,000-strong Kosovo peacekeeping force is a confluence of several factors. Some like Warner want the Europeans to pick up more of the responsibility and cost of the aftermath of NATO's 78-day air war against the forces of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. Others like cosponsoring Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., believe that for constitutional reasons, Congress should not let a president unilaterally dispatch U.S. troops abroad. Still others think the venture in Kosovo was ill-advised from the start and could become an open-ended risk of American lives in a region known for its intractable and violent ethnic disputes. But some members of both parties are supporting Clinton. They argue that setting a withdrawal date would be a foreign policy failure that would only encourage Milosevic to postpone further provocations until the Americans have left. "Passage would send a very misguided signal to all parties in the area that they can't count on our staying power," Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., a leading GOP voice on foreign affairs, said in an interview. Others opposing the withdrawal language include Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., the one-time GOP presidential hopeful; Carl Levin, D-Mich., top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee; and Joseph Biden, D-Del., senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee. Underlining the administration's difficult path ahead, the Byrd-Warner language was approved last week by the Senate Appropriations Committee by a one-sided 23-3. Only three liberal Democrats opposed the provision, which would also require Clinton to develop a plan for having the Europeans supply all ground combat-troop peacekeepers by July 1, 2001. In hopes of creating momentum against it, Democrats supporting Clinton say Defense Secretary William Cohen; Gen. Henry Shelton, chairman of the joint Chiefs of Staff, and other top officials may journey to the Capitol on Tuesday to meet with senators. That is the earliest day votes on the issue may occur. Already, senators supporting Clinton are circulating a letter by Gen. Wesley Clark, the former top NATO commander in Europe, saying an American withdrawal "could give Mr. Milosevic the victory he could not achieve on the battlefield." In March, the House voted 219-200 to kill a provision by Reps. John Kasich, R-Ohio, Barney Frank, D-Mass., and others that would have required a U.S. departure from Kosovo beginning this June 1 unless Clinton certified that Europeans are delivering on promised hundreds of millions of dollars. They will try again this week, aides say, with changes designed to attract additional votes. The deadline date will be pushed back to next April 1, and Clinton would be allowed to temporarily waive the deadline by postponing it by up to 180 days. Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From george33030 at yahoo.com Mon May 15 22:55:14 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Mon May 15 22:55:14 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] WorldNews.com article: "Clinton Facing Showdown on Kosovo" Message-ID: <20000516025507.13244.qmail@web4502.mail.yahoo.com> G.S., Did you read this??? NOW, who's having the last laugh? Remember: George Bush WILL be our next president and we Republicans WILL RULE! --George! --- Uk Lushi wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > This email was sent from http://worldnews.com/ > WorldNews.com is your gateway to stories from the > World's Best online news services. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Associated Press (Mon 15 May 2000) > Clinton Facing Showdown on Kosovo > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- This week could be a decisive one > for President > Clinton's policy of keeping U.S. troops in Kosovo, > with showdowns > likely in the Senate and House that could ultimately > force withdrawal > of the peacekeepers next year. > > In the Senate, there will be a tangle over > bipartisan language in a > routine military construction spending bill > requiring the Americans' > removal from the breakaway Yugoslav province > beginning July 1, 2001, > unless Congress votes to keep them there. > > And there will be a renewed effort by a group of > Democrats and > Republicans in the House to require the troops' > withdrawal unless > Clinton certifies that Europeans are delivering > promised aid for > rebuilding the violence-shattered Balkan enclave. > The deadline would be > next April 1. > > Administration officials oppose both provisions, > even though final > decisions would not have to be made until after the > next president > takes office. But in the face of widespread > congressional skepticism > about U.S. efforts in Kosovo, White House prospects > for stopping some > form of restrictions on American forces there are > unclear. > > The administration's best hope may be rallying > enough votes -- more > than one-third the members voting in either chamber > -- to signal that a > Clinton veto would be sustained. That ultimately > could lead to > watered-down language, either before or after an > actual veto. > > "There's going to be a strong debate on it," said > Senate Armed Services > Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Va., a co-author > of the Senate > language. "Anytime you have that much interest in a > debate, you have to > wait and see" about the outcome. > > Congressional opposition to the 5,900 U.S. troops in > the NATO-led, > 37,000-strong Kosovo peacekeeping force is a > confluence of several > factors. Some like Warner want the Europeans to pick > up more of the > responsibility and cost of the aftermath of NATO's > 78-day air war > against the forces of Yugoslav President Slobodan > Milosevic. > > Others like cosponsoring Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., > believe that for > constitutional reasons, Congress should not let a > president > unilaterally dispatch U.S. troops abroad. Still > others think the > venture in Kosovo was ill-advised from the start and > could become an > open-ended risk of American lives in a region known > for its intractable > and violent ethnic disputes. > > But some members of both parties are supporting > Clinton. They argue > that setting a withdrawal date would be a foreign > policy failure that > would only encourage Milosevic to postpone further > provocations until > the Americans have left. > > "Passage would send a very misguided signal to all > parties in the area > that they can't count on our staying power," Sen. > Richard Lugar, > R-Ind., a leading GOP voice on foreign affairs, said > in an interview. > > Others opposing the withdrawal language include > Sens. John McCain, > R-Ariz., the one-time GOP presidential hopeful; Carl > Levin, D-Mich., > top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee; and > Joseph Biden, D-Del., > senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee. > > Underlining the administration's difficult path > ahead, the Byrd-Warner > language was approved last week by the Senate > Appropriations Committee > by a one-sided 23-3. Only three liberal Democrats > opposed the > provision, which would also require Clinton to > develop a plan for > having the Europeans supply all ground combat-troop > peacekeepers by > July 1, 2001. > > In hopes of creating momentum against it, Democrats > supporting Clinton > say Defense Secretary William Cohen; Gen. Henry > Shelton, chairman of > the joint Chiefs of Staff, and other top officials > may journey to the > Capitol on Tuesday to meet with senators. That is > the earliest day > votes on the issue may occur. > > Already, senators supporting Clinton are circulating > a letter by Gen. > Wesley Clark, the former top NATO commander in > Europe, saying an > American withdrawal "could give Mr. Milosevic the > victory he could not > achieve on the battlefield." > > In March, the House voted 219-200 to kill a > provision by Reps. John > Kasich, R-Ohio, Barney Frank, D-Mass., and others > that would have > required a U.S. departure from Kosovo beginning this > June 1 unless > Clinton certified that Europeans are delivering on > promised hundreds of > millions of dollars. > > They will try again this week, aides say, with > changes designed to > attract additional votes. The deadline date will be > pushed back to next > April 1, and Clinton would be allowed to temporarily > waive the deadline > by postponing it by up to 180 days. > Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights > reserved. > This material may not be published, broadcast, > rewritten or > redistributed. > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From juniku at hotmail.com Tue May 16 01:48:59 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Tue May 16 01:48:59 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] [www.washtimes.com] Out of Kosova? Message-ID: <200005160148856.SM00195@production> Uk Lushi has sent you an article from The Washington Times. ----------------------------------------------------------- OUT OF KOSOVO? House Editorial ----------------------------------------------------------- One wonders how Texas Gov. George W. Bush feels about the move among Senate Republicans to curtail his foreign policy powers as of July 1, 2001 by blocking further American troop deployment in Kosovo beyond that date. This, of course, presupposes that Mr. Bush is elected president of the United States. Surely Mr. Bush must be less than thrilled at having his hands tied by his own party in a matter where Republicans have traditionally defended presidential prerogatives (even if this has become harder and harder in the Clinton years). If Mr. Bush is troubled, he ought to find his voice on the subject, and the sooner the better. Vice President Gore may not be too pleased about all of this either, but at least he will have another piece of ammunition to hurl against congressional Republicans next time he wants to accuse them of isolationism. The problem is the Kosovo amendment, attached to the military spending bill, that last week cleared the Senate Appropriations Committee by a stunning 23-2 vote. The amendment was drafted by Sen. Robert Byrd and Armed Service Chairman John Warner, and would cut off funds for the continued deployment of the 5,900 American troops in Kosovo beyond July 1, next year ? unless President Clinton or this successor obtains congressional approval for continued deployment. The president would also be required to present a plan to turn over to the Europeans full responsibility for supplying groundtroops in Kosovo, and condition funding on certification by the administration that NATO allies are paying their share of the Kosovo reconstruction aid. The amendment is scheduled for a vote in the Senate Tuesday afternoon. Now, it is only too easy to sympathize with the frustration of the senators. The Clinton administration's policy in the Balkans has been a mess, and Kosovo more so than the rest. The facts on which Mr. Byrd and Mr. Warner have based their ill-considered proposal are absolutely correct: Peacekeeping operations have overtaxed the U.S. military severely in the Clinton years, particularly as defense budgets have declined at the same time as the number of missions have increased. The Europeans have been been notoriously slow in producing their share of aid for Balkan reconstruction, as witness the constant stream of officials from the Balkan countries passing through Washington in the hope of increased U.S. aid or at least more American pressure on the Europeans to open the wallet. That does not mean, however that the solution sought by Messrs. Byrd and Warner is the right one. The real challenge for the Senate is to rise above these sorry facts and consider the principle. The senators ought also consider what American withdrawal will do to transatlantic relations. Does anyone doubt that there will be much rejoicing in Belgrade? Supporters of an independent European defense will feel vindicated by such a display of American fickleness ? particularly the French. And Russian President Vladimir Putin will receive much honor for getting the Americans out of the Balkans. Sens. Joseph Biden and John McCain have led the battle against the Kosovo amendment, to their credit. Instead, the Senate ought to look for more constructive ways of getting U.S. troops out of the Balkans in cooperation with our allies. Getting rid of the eternal Slobodan Milosevic would undoubtedly help. ----------------------------------------------------------- This article was mailed from The Washington Times (http://www.washtimes.com). For more great articles, visit us at http://www.washtimes.com Copyright (c) 2000 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved. From puka at usa.net Tue May 16 06:46:36 2000 From: puka at usa.net (G.S) Date: Tue May 16 06:46:36 2000 Subject: [Re: [Prishtina-E] WorldNews.com article: "Clinton Facing Showdown on Kosovo"] Message-ID: <20000516104634.2221.qmail@nwcst291.netaddress.usa.net> >G.S., >Did you read this??? >NOW, who's having the last laugh? >Remember: George Bush WILL be our next president and >we Republicans WILL RULE! What does this have to do with me ? I do not see anyone talking about how they will culturally enrich Kosova with multi-racialism (thats what we were talking about). Anyway Mccain, Bob Dole and many other senior republicans support us. Its customary for a party in opposition to usually do stuff like this in order to humiliate a standing president. And the vote has not gone through yet, plus the president has veto power over it. Its isolationism like this that helped make WW2 into such a big war. What are you proud of ? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From albi at argjiro.net Tue May 16 11:25:52 2000 From: albi at argjiro.net (Albi Qeli) Date: Tue May 16 11:25:52 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: <005001bfbf59$94159460$d9acf880@xyz.uic.edu> According to the BBC ". . . The Russian government is reported to have agreed to provide Belgrade with a multi-million dollar loan and petroleum products. . . ." BBC also reported yesterday that the IMF is finally going back to Russia again, and give them some more loans. From ylber at mail.com Tue May 16 17:05:01 2000 From: ylber at mail.com (Ylber Burgija) Date: Tue May 16 17:05:01 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To George-If you don't mind! Message-ID: <384958645.958511090774.JavaMail.root@web304-mc.mail.com> I apologize if I'm interrupting, but I couldn't help reading both your letters and, from what I can see, niether of you know much about the "Yugoslav" problem. I was born and raised in Prishtina, Kosova fmr.YU, and since I can remember Serbian repression was always very present in Kosova. George is so wrong when he says that when Albanians took over the administration in Kosova (1978), they discriminated against Serbs, Turks or any other ethnic group for that matter. Sure there where a few isolated cases, but the overall situation was that Serbia had a very hands on aproach to Kosova, allways organising weapons raids in, wich where conducted in very violent and ruthless ways. Also, George has no knowledge of this I'm sure, during the 50's, 60's and 70's Serbia organised mass deportations of Albanians to Turkey. Todate more than two milion Turk citizens are Albanians deported from "Yugoslavia or The Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia" How about the violence that errupted in 1981 when more than 1000 innocent Albanians where killed in demonstrations, and thousands more wuonded and imprisoned. If you dig deep into History George, you will find that this was not thet first time Serbs engaged in slaying innocent people. Through out History they have been known to be ruthless in war spearing no one, not even Children. Also George read a little about the Illyrians, find some maps see it first hand, know a little abuot the region, you can't just become an expert from just reading the paper or watching the news. As far as Yugoslavia is concerned, it never really was a Federation, cause Belgrade had complete controll over everything. Serbia ran things in fmr.YU. You as an American should know what it feels like to be screwed by your own country, that's what the leadership in Belgrade did to all the "Yougoslav" people. So, in conclusion George, for future reference, if you haven't been forced to go through what I've been through and see what I have seen, please stick to beeing an American, sit on a sofa in front of your TV with a TV guide in one hand and a Budweiser in the other, curress your fat little beer gut and contemplate on how to pay off your house, car, garadge, credit cards and what not. PS:Croatia, Bosnia, and now Kosova are all responsibility of the U.S. because there wouldn't have been any wars there if the U.S. policy in the Ballkans was done right. But you Americans are known to screw things up and run away: Vietnam, Somalia,.... Oh I almost forgot about what you did to the American Natives, talk about Nacizm, huh. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From mshehu00 at hotmail.com Tue May 16 23:02:52 2000 From: mshehu00 at hotmail.com (M SH) Date: Tue May 16 23:02:52 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Serbien Supreme Court hears Kosovo doctor's appeal Message-ID: <20000517030245.51092.qmail@hotmail.com> SERBIEN SUPREME COURT HEARS KOSOVO DOCTOR'S APPEAL BELGRADE, May 16 (Reuters) - Serbia's Supreme Court on Tuesday examined the appeal of a Kosovo Albanian humanitarian doctor and poet for release from a 12-year jail sentence on terrorism charges, defence lawyers said... check the link below for the full story. abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters20000516_4251.html M Shehu ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From juniku at hotmail.com Wed May 17 01:59:18 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (juniku at hotmail.com) Date: Wed May 17 01:59:18 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] A Sun story from Uk Lushi Message-ID: <200005170559.WAA21157@waldo.lasvegassun.com> Uk Lushi thought you might be interested in this Las Vegas Sun (http://www.lasvegassun.com/) story: http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-eur/2000/may/16/051600902.html ================================================================== Bush Joins in Kosovo Debate ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate efforts to impose a July 2001 deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Kosovo became entangled in presidential politics on Tuesday as Republican George W. Bush signaled opposition to the plan as "legislative overreach." Such opposition would likely kill the proposal, said Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Ted Stevens, R-Alaska. The Senate, tied up in parliamentary knots over a separate issue, did not get around as scheduled on Tuesday to debating the amendment by Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Va., and Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.Va. That measure, which initially appeared to be picking up growing GOP support, would cut funds for the 5,900 U.S. troops in Kosovo beyond July 1, 2001, unless Clinton or his successor first obtained express congressional approval for keeping them there. But top Republicans said that Bush's newly expressed opposition to the measure threw new uncertainty into the debate. The veto-threatened amendment is part of a $6.8 billion spending bill for military construction. Republican senators said that Bush's opposition was initially conveyed privately to them. But late Tuesday, Bush campaign spokesman Scott McClelland confirmed that the GOP presidential candidate had serious reservations about the amendment. "The Clinton-Gore administration has failed to instill trust in Congress and the American people when it comes to our military and deployment of troops overseas. But the governor does not believe this provision is the way to resolve the lack of presidential leadership. Gov. Bush views it as a legislative overreach on the powers of the presidency," McClelland said, reading a statement. "If Gov. Bush objects, the amendment is dead," said Stevens, who is a co-sponsor of the withdrawal proposal. "Among our people, there are enough who will support the Bush position." Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., a senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a principal opponent of the amendment, said, "I'm pleased that this would be his point of view." Lugar said that Bush did not appear to be calling senators directly -- but was clearly passing the word along through his campaign headquarters. In opposing the amendment, Bush was siding with former rival Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. McCain, who backed Bush's presidential bid last week, told reporters he felt the amendment was "inappropriate." "We intend to fight strenuously to have this language taken from the bill. It's unnecessary," McCain said. "I think we should wait until after this election before we make fundamental changes in our policy." Meanwhile, Army Gen. Wesley Clark, who oversaw the NATO air war as Supreme Allied Commander Europe, met privately with senators to lodge his objections to the amendment. Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the senior Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, said that Clark suggested the troop withdrawal measure would create "a year of uncertainty" in the Balkans and embolden Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. Amendment sponsor Warner said he "respectfully disagreed" with the four-star general. "Everybody says Milosevic is going to get a signal. We have adequate military firepower to knock him back on anything he does and believe me, Milosevic knows that," Warner said. The underlying military construction bill would provide funds for the fiscal year that begins Oct. 1 for the construction of barracks, family housing, military hospitals and child care centers. It is usually the least controversial of the 13 appropriations bills Congress must pass each year to keep the government running. The House passed its version of the bill by a 380-22 margin on Tuesday in less than an hour of debate. The House bill does not contain a provision dealing with Kosovo troops. --- The bills are S. 2521 and H.R. 4425 ================================================================== ____ GO SITE-SEEING AT VEGAS.COM! ____ Vegas.com is your complete guide to Las Vegas news, entertainment and activities. Vegas.com is home to: Las Vegas Sun (news): http://www.lasvegassun.com Resorts and Reservations: http://www.vegas.com/resorts/ Vegas.com Tours: http://www.vegas.com/tours/ Showbiz (Vegas entertainment): http://www.lvshowbiz.com Vegas Golfer (featuring a golf course guide!): http://www.vegasgolfer.com/ Vegas Weddings (wedding guide): http://weddings.vegas.com Vegas.com Music (talk about...pop music!): http://music.vegas.com Las Vegas Life (Vegas lifestyles): http://www.lvlife.com Las Vegas Weekly (alternative Vegas): http://www.lasvegasweekly.com Vegas Lounge (surprises): http://www.vegaslounge.com Las Vegas Community Guide: http://www.lvcommunity.com Vegas.com Message Boards: http://www.vegas.com/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi ================================================================== Contents copyright 2000 Las Vegas Sun, Inc. You are receiving this e-mail because a friend or acquaintance sent it to you. If you no longer want to receive these messages, please contact the sender, not the Las Vegas Sun. From juniku at hotmail.com Wed May 17 02:10:00 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Wed May 17 02:10:00 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] [www.washtimes.com] USA-KOSOVA Message-ID: <200005170209206.SM00196@asp1> Uk Lushi has sent you an article from The Washington Times. ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- This article was mailed from The Washington Times (http://www.washtimes.com). For more great articles, visit us at http://www.washtimes.com Copyright (c) 2000 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved. From juniku at hotmail.com Wed May 17 02:53:26 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Wed May 17 02:53:26 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] [www.washtimes.com] One more try Message-ID: <200005170253691.SM00196@asp1> Uk Lushi has sent you an article from The Washington Times. ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- This article was mailed from The Washington Times (http://www.washtimes.com). For more great articles, visit us at http://www.washtimes.com Copyright (c) 2000 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved. From h-rengier at gmx.de Wed May 17 07:43:53 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Wed May 17 07:43:53 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To Nazim regarding George References: <384958645.958511090774.JavaMail.root@web304-mc.mail.com> Message-ID: <14256.958563811@www14.gmx.net> My dear vlave Nazim, George is actually conveying his views as someone who is a production of his strait jacket society. His views are totally manipulated by his partial American mass media. For this reason he should be excused and his views should not have any weight of importance in this list; for those who critizise should first put their own house in order before coming out to the rest of the world and claim to play the role equal right and justice. The west is diliberately trying to water down the truth regarding the Albanian plight through history, for many interests that they are making profit out of. The reaction of the Albanian in Kosovo to the Serbs is actually natural for the wounds are not heeled yet, and the oppression was taking place legally which the world was keeping quiet about it until the Albanian rised up to defend themself by themself, then the West has all of the sudden appeared allegedly to solve the issue. That would give us all a second thought why? I believe Kosovo should be wise enough to join Albania in order to be strong otherwise it will always be victimised by the Serbs or other powers where it cannot help itself own its own. Hany -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From etrit at alb-net.com Wed May 17 10:52:14 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Wed May 17 10:52:14 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] A documentary on asylum officers Message-ID: There will be a documentary on asylum officers on June 5, on PBS (channel 13 in NYC). It should be interesting. Here's the info from PBS' web site: June 5, 2000 Imagine that your life has fallen apart -- maybe you've been tortured or raped, or maybe you've gotten out just in time. You'll have one chance to start a new life in the U.S., and an hour to tell your story to a neutral bureaucrat. Now imagine yourself on the other side of the desk, listening to people seeking refuge from any one of a hundred countries. The law says you can offer asylum if you find that someone has a "well-founded fear of persecution." Three times a day, your job is to decide their fates. Political asylum--who deserves it? Who gets it? With unprecedented access, filmmakers Michael Camerini and Shari Robertson enter the closed corridors of the INS to reveal the dramatic real-life stage where human rights and American ideals collide with the nearly impossible task of trying to know the truth. (108 minutes) From george33030 at yahoo.com Wed May 17 22:55:46 2000 From: george33030 at yahoo.com (George Garza) Date: Wed May 17 22:55:46 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To George-If you don't mind! Message-ID: <20000517234027.26863.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Ylber Burgija; Well, since (as your name implies) want to "Drill" me with your points of veiw, so be it. However, let me first remind you of the old saying: "Those who dwell in the forest can't see the forest for the trees" AND, my friend: YOU, who has been dwelling in the Balkan Forest CANNOT see the BALKANS for the HISTORICAL HATE AND CARNAGE so typical of your Third World region! >Serbian repression was always very present in Kosova (you said.) -This is true, however (as I've said MANY times before): Albanians were not angels as well. BOTH sides have been guilty of the historical instability and carnage. >Sure there were a few isolated cases, but the overall situation was that Serbia had a very hands on approach to Kosova, allways organising weapons raids in, wich where conducted in very violent and ruthless ways. I'm aware of the weapons raids and (as I've already mentioned in my previous message) I know that Serbia was in control of the security forces in Kosova as well as in other parts of Yugoslavia. But, the discrimination which was carried out by the Kosovar Albanians against the Kosovar Serbians and other ethnic groups WERE NOT ISOLATED CASES as you claim. (Please don't amuse me with your feeble attempts to try to block out the sun with your finger!) Kosova was constitutionally a bilingual (and in SOME places: trilingual) society. Even though this was so, meetings in companies (such as "Ramiz Sadiku" and "Elektrokosova") and even at the University of Prishtina were being conducted ONLY in the Albanian language and therefore diliberatly excluding those employees and faculty members who DID NOT speak or understand the Albanian language. In the meantime, those Albanians engaging in this type of discrimination also spoke Serbian and could have easily conducted these meetings and exchange of information in Serbian and therefore not made ANYONE feel excluded. Documents (even though the country's official language was Serbo-Croat)were issued in the Albanian language to those of Serbian origins. Kosovar Turks and Gypsies also suffered under the Kosovar Albanian discrimination. When the census was conducted in 1981, these people were told to identify themselves as "Albanian". If you compell someone to act against their own free will, we Americans consider this as oppression and discrimination. This is something that has occured in the past in our own country and we have fought hard to irradicate by passing fair and equal laws for ALL of our American citizens. (AND, I admit, we've still a long way to go.) Also, George has no knowledge of this I'm sure, > during the 50's, 60's and > 70's Serbia organised mass deportations of Albanians > to Turkey. (Let me tell you about my so-called "Lack of Knowledge": During the 1950s AND untill 1966, Aleksandar Rankovic, head of the UDB was organizing "Weapons Seizures" which served as a guise for the torture and deportation of Albanians in Yugoslavia. However, these raids were stopped in 1966 when in the Brioni Plenum, (under Tito's initiative)Rankovic was dismissed from his duties. It's a shame you ARE NOT too familiar with YOUR OWN HISTORY. Otherwise you would have known that DURING THE 1970s, there were NO MORE GOVERNMENT MASS DEPORTATIONS of Albanians out of Yugoslavia since Rankovic was kicked out of the party and lost his power to continue such a thing. Therefore, my dear BOY, perhaps IT IS YOU who must "dig deep into history" -DUH? >If you dig deep into History George, you will find > that this was not thet > first time Serbs engaged in slaying innocent people. > Through out History they have been known to be > ruthless in war spearing no > one, not even Children. I HAVE "Dug deep" into YOUR history and found that: In 1878, after the Berlin Congress (when Serbia was recognized as an independent country), Albanians were slaughtered, deported (and most of them, such as the Muhagjirs -who lived in a great many parts of Serbia- NEVER made it to Kosova or to the territories controled by the Ottoman Empire. There are villages, such as Pllana (located in Serbia) that still bear Albanian names. If you recall, during the kingdom of Serbs/Croats and Slovenians (PRIOR to the name being changed to: "Yugoslavia"), Albanians were being treated as "insignificant low-lifes" which the Serbs regarded as a "problem to be gotten rid of." The most well-known proponent of this racist policy was Vaso Cubrilovic, a member of the Serbian Academy of Science and Arts. During the 1920s, the lands belonging to Albanians were being taken away from them and given to Serbs being brought to Kosova from Herzegovina (THIS WAS the famous so-called "Agricultural Reform". HOWEVER, during WWII, when Kosova was occupied by the Nazis, Albanians were doing the SAME THING to the Serbs and Montenegrans (however, in perhaps a smaller scale, but NEVERTHELESS engaged in the SAME oppressive behavior). > As far as Yugoslavia is concerned, it never really > was a Federation, cause > Belgrade had complete controll over everything. > Serbia ran things in fmr.YU. > Ironically, then how come the FIRST Yugoslave president after Tito's death was a KOSOVAR ALBANIAN?? If (as you say) "Belgrade had complete control over everything", WHY would the Serbs even allow an Albanian to hold such power??? This doesn't make sense. > You as an American should know what it feels like to > be screwed by your own > country, that's what the leadership in Belgrade did > to all the "Yougoslav" > people. > Yeah! You are right about THAT! I DO KNOW what it feels like to be screwed by "CLINOCHIO" and his lying ways. He told us that we were sending our troops into Kosova to save the "poor INNOCENT Albanians who were a "kind and gentile people" being slaughtered and victimized by the Serbs and that we would ONLY BE THERE FOR A VERY SHORT TIME while we and the other KFOR nations brought back peace and stability to the region." NOW, we find out that Clinton lied and that the Kosovar Albanians are not much different than their Serbian counterparts. We now know that the KLA and other Albanian extremists are just as bloodthirsty as their Serbian foes and have displaced the Kosovar Serbians, taken their homes, etc. AND to add insult to injury, WE WANT OUR TROOPS HOME ASAP, yet it looks like whether we like it or not, our soldiers WILL NOT come home soon since Kosova IS STILL UNSTABLE and there is a strong possibility that we will have to go into Macedonia and Montenegro once THOSE FOOLS get their typical Balkan carnage going into full swing. > So, in conclusion George, for future reference, if > you haven't been forced > to go through what I've been through and see what I > have seen, please stick > to beeing an American, sit on a sofa in front of > your TV with a TV guide in > one hand and a Budweiser in the other, curress your > fat little beer gut and > contemplate on how to pay off your house, car, > garadge, credit cards and > what not. > Apparently, you've been sitting on YOUR BYTH, sucking on your bottle of Baltich Vodka while watching reruns of "The Simpsons" To begin with: I don't drink or smoke, watch very little TV and DO READ QUITE A BIT. I work out at the Spa EVERYDAY and have NO BEER GUT (Wanna check my schlong??) Howver, be that as it may: As an American taxpayer, I want to know where my hard-earned tax money is going. The billions of dollars we're spending in keeping our forces stuck in the Balkans in order to keep you all at bay and from tearing each other apart, could be better spent in helping our poor, better education, careers and training opportunities for our citizens, etc. > PS:Croatia, Bosnia, and now Kosova are all > responsibility of the U.S. > because there wouldn't have been any wars there if > the U.S. > policy in the Ballkans was done right. > But you Americans are known to screw things up and > run away: > Vietnam, Somalia,.... > Oh I almost forgot about what you did to the > American Natives, talk about > Nacizm, huh. > PUH-LEEZE! Had we not intervened, you and your other ungrateful Albanians would not be here to express your anti-Americanism. By now, you would have had another 200,000 dead and your situation would have been just as bad as(maybe worse) than Bosnia's. Obviously we ARE quite different than you. We ARE NOT PROUD of what was done to our Native Americans, African Americans, Mexican Americans, and other minorities in our country. But at least we're civilized enough to admit our wrongs and go forward in the right manner. (Something NOT typical of you who continue with your hate and strife against each other. -Touche. --George ber at mail.com> wrote: > --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum --- > Archives: > www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e > > I apologize if I'm interrupting, but I couldn't help > reading both your > letters and, from what I can see, niether of you > know much about the > "Yugoslav" problem. > I was born and raised in Prishtina, Kosova fmr.YU, > and since I can remember > Serbian repression was always very present in > Kosova. > George is so wrong when he says that when Albanians > took over the > administration in Kosova (1978), they discriminated > against Serbs, Turks or > any other ethnic group for that matter. Sure there > where a few isolated > cases, but the overall situation was that Serbia had > a very hands on aproach > to Kosova, allways organising weapons raids in, wich > where conducted in very > violent and ruthless ways. > Also, George has no knowledge of this I'm sure, > during the 50's, 60's and > 70's Serbia organised mass deportations of Albanians > to Turkey. > Todate more than two milion Turk citizens are > Albanians deported from > "Yugoslavia or The Socialist Federative Republic of > Yugoslavia" > How about the violence that errupted in 1981 when > more than 1000 innocent > Albanians where killed in demonstrations, and > thousands more wuonded and > imprisoned. > If you dig deep into History George, you will find > that this was not thet > first time Serbs engaged in slaying innocent people. > Through out History they have been known to be > ruthless in war spearing no > one, not even Children. > Also George read a little about the Illyrians, find > some maps see it first > hand, know a little abuot the region, you can't just > become an expert from > just reading the paper or watching the news. > > As far as Yugoslavia is concerned, it never really > was a Federation, cause > Belgrade had complete controll over everything. > Serbia ran things in fmr.YU. > > You as an American should know what it feels like to > be screwed by your own > country, that's what the leadership in Belgrade did > to all the "Yougoslav" > people. > > So, in conclusion George, for future reference, if > you haven't been forced > to go through what I've been through and see what I > have seen, please stick > to beeing an American, sit on a sofa in front of > your TV with a TV guide in > one hand and a Budweiser in the other, curress your > fat little beer gut and > contemplate on how to pay off your house, car, > garadge, credit cards and > what not. > > PS:Croatia, Bosnia, and now Kosova are all > responsibility of the U.S. > because there wouldn't have been any wars there if > the U.S. > policy in the Ballkans was done right. > But you Americans are known to screw things up and > run away: > Vietnam, Somalia,.... > Oh I almost forgot about what you did to the > American Natives, talk about > Nacizm, huh. > > ______________________________________________ > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > > _______________________________________________________ > Prishtina-E discussion forum: > Prishtina-E at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/prishtina-e __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From kosova at jps.net Wed May 17 23:01:40 2000 From: kosova at jps.net (kosova at jps.net) Date: Wed May 17 23:01:40 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] URGENT - Act Today! Message-ID: There will be votes today in both the House and Senate on proposals to withdraw US Troops from Kosova. In the Senate, an amendment sponsored by Byrd (D-WV) and Warner (R-VA) was attached to the bill providing funding for military construction. It would require withdrawal of American troops from Kosova by July 1, 2000 unless the Congress votes otherwise. It would also require a phased-in plan for withdrawal to be developed over the course of the next year, which puts in place a de facto withdrawal process. In the House, representatives John Kasich (R-OH) and Barney Frank (D-MA) will offer an amendment later this week also to the military construction bill. A similar effort by them last month was defeated. Their new amendment will very likely contain the language of the Byrd-Warner bill. The Administration is likely to veto the bill if it contains the language above. But in order to sustain that veto, we need at least over one-third of the House and Senate to vote against the amendment. Please call your representative and senators to express your views. You can reach their office by calling 202-225-3121. ONCE YOU GET THAT OFFICE, ASK FOR THE FOREIGN POLICY LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT. IF YOU GET A RECORDING, LEAVE A DETAILED MESSAGE EXPLAINING YOUR POSITION. Contact your representatives by email or contact your local branch. This information is easy to attain; point your browser to the links show below, type in the state you reside in, and the list of representatives will be displayed. (Below is text you may copy and paste or discuss with their foreign affairs staff member.) PLEASE ACT TODAY! The U.S. House of Representatives official website: main page: http://www.house.gov/ member page: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.html AND The United States Senate: main page: http://www.senate.gov/ TALKING POINTS ? I am calling to urge the Congressman or Senator to vote no on the Kasich (in the House) or Byrd Amendment (in the Senate). ? This amendment would force the withdrawal of American troops from Kosova because it creates a date certain for withdrawal and requires a plan for achieving withdrawal.. ? The amendment sends the message to Milosevic and his allies that we have given up on Kosova and that they can wait us out until we leave. ? The amendment also will weaken our relationship with our allies, who we led into the air campaign against Serbia. ? Withdrawal of American troops from Kosova would be a disaster for the region. It took American military leadership to end the war in, and it will take American military leadership to secure peace and security in the short term. If we leave, Albanians will lose confidence in the peacekeeping mission and Serbs will be emboldened to challenge the peacekeeping force. Violence and perhaps renewed warfare would result. ? The American people support our engagement in Kosova. A national poll conducted by Penn, Schoen in March showed that two-thirds of Americans believe that our military should remain in Kosova until we finish the job there. From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Wed May 17 23:46:25 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Wed May 17 23:46:25 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To George-If you don't mind! Message-ID: <002c01bfc08b$af8b6ac0$a7aaf880@xyz.uic.edu> >before): Albanians were not angels as well. BOTH sides >have been guilty of the historical instability and Yes, some morons in the forties were saying that jews were guilty for what befell them, they brought it upon themselves, and so on. >In the meantime, those Albanians engaging in this type >of discrimination also spoke Serbian and could have >easily conducted these meetings and exchange of >information in Serbian and therefore not made ANYONE >feel excluded. Documents (even though the country's >official language was Serbo-Croat)were issued in the >Albanian language to those of Serbian origins. George, when Serbs took Kosova in 1912, they did not ask for the consent of the local inhabitants. Therefore, they have no right to impose the serbo-croatian as an official language to the Albanian population. That is all as far as your "the-country's-official-language-was-Serbo-Croat" argument is concerned. >From a more practical point of view: If Albanians gather together they will speak Albanian. That is only natural. What would be your suggestion -- have all Albanians learn the Serbian language and speak Serbian in the meetings just so a couple of Serbs could feel "not excluded" in the communist party meetings at the factory? How about this -- why didn't Serbs try to learn and understand the language of their Albanian colleagues? >Kosovar Turks and Gypsies also suffered under the >Kosovar Albanian discrimination. When the census was >conducted in 1981, these people were told to identify >themselves as "Albanian". I have read this kind of stuff in Serbian newsgroups before. I took it seriously for a while, but now I have learned to dismiss it. There was no "Kosovar Albanian" discrimination against Serbs. It is the Serbs who don't like being a minority -- they want to rule. They think they have the right to rule others. If they can't rule others, they claim that they are being discriminated against. That's all there is to it. George, it is unfortunate that people think that Albanians are the same like Serbs. The truth is that Albanians have been on the receiving end all the time. Albanians were massacred in Tivar, Albanians were deported to Turkey, Albanians were expropriated, Albanians were collectively fired from jobs, and the list goes on. . . If the odd Albanian chooses to take revenge, or to beat the Serb neighbor, this gives you and others no right to say that Albanians are no better than those who murdered and mistreated them. What did you expect? Did you expect people to go back home from the refugee camps and then kiss the Serbs who kicked them? Stop for a second and think about what you say. I know a couple of Serbs here, and they do not go as far as you do when talking about Albanians, at least not in my face. You are more extreme than them. From juniku at hotmail.com Thu May 18 09:51:39 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Thu May 18 09:51:39 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] WorldNews.com article: "House: Limit Kosovo Involvement" Message-ID: <200005181350.OAA08578@mail.livenews.com> This email was sent from http://worldnews.com/ WorldNews.com is your gateway to stories from the World's Best online news services. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Associated Press (Thu 18 May 2000) House: Limit Kosovo Involvement WASHINGTON (AP) -- The future of U.S. peacekeeping in Kosovo goes before the Senate after the House voted to end involvement in the Yugoslav province next year if Europeans don't chip in for more of the costs. Clinton administration officials warned that any attempt to set a date for withdrawal of American troops could lead to an erosion of NATO solidarity and another eruption of violence in ethnically torn Kosovo. It would be interpreted in the Balkans as a sign of weakness, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said Wednesday in a speech to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. "We cannot afford that in a region where weakness attracts vultures." The Senate was to vote today on an amendment sponsored by Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and John McCain, R-Ariz., that would undo a provision in a military construction spending bill setting a July 1, 2001, date for withdrawal of U.S. ground troops unless the president seeks and Congress approves an extension. The withdrawal provision, authored by Sens. John Warner, R-Va., and Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., also would cut extra funds for the Kosovo operation unless the president certifies that European nations are paying their fair share. Levin said that setting a deadline would result in more than a year of "dangerous uncertainty" and would be "inconsistent with what we have struggled so hard to achieve in the Balkans, which is stability in a relatively peaceful environment." About 5,900 U.S. troops are in the NATO-led, 37,000-strong peacekeeping force, which has been stationed in Kosovo since the 78-day air war to drive Yugoslav troops out of the province ended last June. Defense Secretary William Cohen said earlier this week he would recommend that President Clinton veto the Senate bill, which includes $8.6 billion for military construction and $4.7 billion in emergency spending for Kosovo and anti-drug efforts in Colombia, if it contained the Warner-Byrd language. He said an artificial deadline for withdrawal could lead to a renewal of violence between the Serbs and ethnic Albanians and "call into question NATO's viability." The House on Wednesday voted 264-153 to require the president by next April 1 to certify that European allies have met their financial commitments to the Kosovo operation. If he can't, the president must within 30 days submit a plan for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. "Our fighters flew 70 percent of the sorties over Kosovo. Our military took the greatest risk. We've fulfilled our financial obligations. Our allies, unfortunately, have not," said Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn. Rep. John Kasich, R-Ohio, chief sponsor of the amendment to a defense authorization bill, said European allies promised $402 million for the rebuilding of the war-torn province, but so far have only provided $93 million. But much of the debate in both chambers touched on the feelings of many lawmakers that Congress is being left out of decisions on the deployment of U.S. troops abroad. Clinton, like his predecessors in the White House, has insisted he doesn't need congressional approval to send troops to peacekeeping and other multinational missions. Texas Gov. George W. Bush, who hopes to succeed Clinton in the White House, also has opposed the Senate measure as "legislative overreach." Many in Congress, pointing to their constitutional authority over federal spending, disagree. Congress demanded a voice in the Persian Gulf War and has sought, largely unsuccessfully, to put limits on U.S. military actions in Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia and Kosovo. Byrd, the Senate's leading constitutional authority, said his aim was not to force U.S. troops out of Kosovo but to make the president justify the mission there. "What we are trying to do is take back the authorities of the Congress which have been usurped by the administration." On the other side, Rep. Norman Dicks of Washington, a Democratic expert on defense, said it would be "foolish and counterproductive" for Congress to intervene with a date certain for withdrawal. "It is undermining the ability of the commander in chief -- you know we can only have one president at a time," he said. ------ The House bill number is H.R. 4205. The Senate bill is S. 2521. On the Net: Kasich statements on Kosovo: http://www.house.gov/budget Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From besnik at alb-net.com Thu May 18 11:41:18 2000 From: besnik at alb-net.com (Besnik Pula) Date: Thu May 18 11:41:18 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] survey results Message-ID: A recent poll conducted throughout Kosova by the Institute of Sociology, based in Prishtina, found that 48% of Kosovar Albanians believe that Serbs and other Kosovar miniorities should be guaranteed equal human and civic rights, as opposed to 22% who said that they should enjoy some rights, and 11% who said that they should enjoy no rights. Similar polls conducted in Belgrade have shown that most Serbs view Albanians as "primitive and uncivilized", that they would never want their child to marry an Albanian, and that given a variety of ethnic groups, they rank Albanians at the lowest scale. There goes the argument that "Albanians are just like the Serbs". Regards, Besnik From h-rengier at gmx.de Thu May 18 15:06:50 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Thu May 18 15:06:50 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] remove me from your list Message-ID: <28805.958676802@www1.gmx.net> Dear Etrit Bardhi, Hereby I would like to thank you very much indeed for you help in every aspect. Since I am so busy now with other occupations, I can no longer follow the Prishtina Forum, therefore I would like you to remove me from your list until further notice please. Looking forward to hearing from you. Your sincerely Hany Rengier -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From dardan at prishtina.com Thu May 18 17:30:16 2000 From: dardan at prishtina.com (Dardan Blaku) Date: Thu May 18 17:30:16 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] NEWS: Senate Rejects Limits on Kosovo Troops Message-ID: <200005181736.AA3604820@prishtina.com> Senate Rejects Limits on Kosovo Troops Reuters May 18 2000 3:09PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With Vice President Al Gore on hand to break a potential tie, the Senate Thursday sided with the Clinton administration and killed a proposal to require the withdrawal of U.S. troops in Kosovo next year unless Congress authorized them to stay. Gore's vote was not needed as the measure was stripped from a $4.7 billion emergency spending package on a 53-47 vote. Senate opponents argued it would embolden Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic and lead to a year of dangerous uncertainty in the Balkans. The Senate amendment, sponsored by Sens. John Warner of Virginia, a Republican, and Robert Byrd of West Virginia, a Democrat, would have cut off funds for the 5,900 U.S. troops in Kosovo after July 1, 2001, unless Congress voted to keep them there. It also withholds 25 percent of the Kosovo funds until President Clinton certifies that NATO allies are meeting their financial and personnel commitments in Kosovo. If that certification is not made by July 15 of this year, those funds would pay for a troop withdrawal. Clinton had threatened a veto and Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush also opposed the measure, describing it as ``legislative overreach.'' With the vote considered too close to call earlier in the day, Senate Democrats asked Gore to be on hand in case he was needed. The House of Representatives weighed into the debate on Wednesday, approving a measure to require the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Kosovo next year unless Europeans allies meet their commitments. The final language will have to be approved in a House-Senate negotiating committee. From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Thu May 18 18:57:41 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Thu May 18 18:57:41 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] (no subject) Message-ID: Some 97 people killed in Kosova in the past three months PRISHTINE, May 18 (ata) - By B Jashari: Some 97 people, 52 of whom Albanians, 17 Serbs, 5 Bosnians and 23 unidentified people have been killed in the first three months of this year in Kosova, according to a report by the Council for the Defence of Human Rights in Kosova (KMDLNJ) centered in Prishtina. (taken without permission from atsh) From juniku at hotmail.com Fri May 19 02:15:25 2000 From: juniku at hotmail.com (Uk Lushi) Date: Fri May 19 02:15:25 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] WorldNews.com article: "Macedonia Govt Resignation Demanded" Message-ID: <200005190613.HAA08777@mail.livenews.com> This email was sent from http://worldnews.com/ WorldNews.com is your gateway to stories from the World's Best online news services. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Associated Press (Fri 19 May 2000) Macedonia Govt Resignation Demanded SKOPJE, Macedonia (AP) -- More than 40,000 people gathered at an opposition rally Thursday to demand the Macedonian government resign and hold early elections. "Down with the government," "We want elections," read the banners carried by the protesters at the rally held at the main city square in the capital Skopje. The Social Democrats and eight other opposition parties announced a series of anti-government protests in a declaration read at the gathering. "The only thing this government can do to save Macedonia is to quit power," Branko Crvenkovski, the leader of the Social Democrats told the crowd. Crvenkovski's party, formerly the Communists, blame the center-right government for the worsening economic situation in Macedonia, the only former Yugoslav republic to secede peacefully. Macedonia is believed to be dangerously close to bankruptcy. With more than half the workforce unemployed and a foreign debt amounting to $1.45 billion, the impoverished Balkan nation is hoping to boost its economy by bringing in foreign capital. The opposition also accuses the government of giving in to the country's ethnic Albanians, who make up one-fourth of the country's 2 million people and have been demanding more rights. Opposition calls for the government resignation have grown since an incident earlier this year in which four Macedonian soldiers were abducted by Kosovo Albanian extremists and reportedly exchanged for a Kosovo Albanian facing trial in Macedonia. The Social Democrats led Macedonia to independence from former Yugoslavia in 1991 and ruled the country for seven years before losing elections to the ruling center-right coalition, which includes pro-Western politicians in the country. Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From h-rengier at gmx.de Fri May 19 06:46:18 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Fri May 19 06:46:18 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] usubscribe me from your list References: <200005181736.AA3604820@prishtina.com> Message-ID: <26209.958731568@www14.gmx.net> Hereby I would like to be removed from your list. Your sincerely Hany -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From h-rengier at gmx.de Fri May 19 06:55:11 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Fri May 19 06:55:11 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Re: Please remove me from your list References: Message-ID: <16708.958732104@www14.gmx.net> Dear Etrit Bardhi, Hereby I would like to be removed from your list for I can no longer keep up with the showering mail coming to me, besides I have no time to read everything any more. Looking forward to hearing from you. Your sincerely Hany Mekkawi Rengier -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Fri May 19 07:07:19 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Fri May 19 07:07:19 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Historical Relevance References: <384958645.958511090774.JavaMail.root@web304-mc.mail.com> <14256.958563811@www14.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20000519100712.41713.qmail@hotmail.com> Hany, When having discussions with Americans (sometimes including myself, unfortunately), keep in mind the difference between American and European historical relevance. My personal theory is that the relative youth of the United States causes many Americans to think of history only in terms of recent history. We simply do not have the centuries of historical experience of most European nations. For this reason, it may not be "watering down the truth" of plights throughout history, but simply not recognizing the relevance that this history still holds for the present generation. I would be extremely careful about suggesting that Kosovo join Albania at this stage. While they are brothers by virtue of being Albanian, there are a great many differences that would need to be overcome for peaceful coexistence. In addition, if Kosovo were to play its cards right with the international community, it could actually far surpass the current level of development in Albania. Jennifer From jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com Fri May 19 07:07:28 2000 From: jlincolnlewis at hotmail.com (Jennifer Lincoln-Lewis) Date: Fri May 19 07:07:28 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] To George References: <20000515020838.29747.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20000519100719.68879.qmail@hotmail.com> George, I'm not blind when I point out that SOME people are committing violence. I'm living here, and observing first hand what is happening. Not everyone is a raving murderer. Recently Kosovo has seen the murder of two-former KLA leaders. One was an extremely good man, whom I had a great deal of respect for. The other I was not familiar with. Until the murders are solved, however, pointing fingers only serves to increase levels of hatred. In my list, I was not assuming the mobilization of anyone. I was simply pointing out areas in which, if radical extremists in various countries could have their way, territories would change hands. I don't expect this to happen, I was just carrying through the radical theme to prove a point. I am also a citizen born and raised in the US. My ancestors helped found the country, govern it (a President, Senators, Governors, etc.), and participate in it (founding one of the two largest parties now active). I see "what happens" as a positive thing. I am obviously a more tolerant, understanding human being because of it. I have not "lost track" of Mainstream America. The views that I encounter, from average citizens, the media, and political representative in the US, differ greatly from many of the views you state. The people of the Balkans in general should not be blamed for the hostilities. The majority are victims of the acts of the minority. No matter what ethnicity or country they are a part of. People here do have the political will for change. But, they are caught in a cycle of disempowerment. As power balances shift, and people learn new methods of overcoming difficulties, things will change. It will simply take time and patience. You can't change a century of history in a year. I don't have numbers on weapons used during the conflict, so I won't disagree with your assertion that most were produced in the Balkans. But, if you ever come to Kosovo, I would be happy to show you my collection of shell casings, many produced in various non-Balkan nations. I would put Russian and Chinese on the profit list, though. George, anyone who has ever been seriously victimized can tell you: no matter how hard you try, you can not just forgive and forget overnight. People are suffering major psychological trauma. It takes time to heal. I truly believe that it will only be small children, those who are now under 4, who will be able to truly carry on normal lives. In my view, the US has an obligation to remain in Kosovo. Not because of the NATO intervention, but because the US did not get more involved earlier, when much of the death and destruction could have been avoided. In years before the bombing, I personally met with European and US officials to discuss the situation in Kosovo. They refused to accept the scale of oppression that was already happening, the existence of the KLA, and the potential for war. They turned their backs for too long, when there was still a chance for a mediated solution. They have a moral obligation to do something now, as do the countries of Europe. Jennifer From iliriana at usa.net Fri May 19 11:03:14 2000 From: iliriana at usa.net (Iliriana Mushkolaj) Date: Fri May 19 11:03:14 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Soros: Lets Take Albanian Intellectuals Back! Message-ID: <20000519150252.13048.qmail@nwcst279.netaddress.usa.net> Soros: Let?s Take Albanian Intellectuals Back! Albanian intellectuals are working in ordinary jobs abroad and their exodus was considered a ?brain loss? for Albania in a seminar held by the Soros foundations in Tirana on Wednesday, reported daily ?Koha Jone? on Thursday. It highlighted that Soros anticipates investing to entice Albania?s intellectuals to return to their homeland by giving them salaries four times higher than those of the state. In the meantime, the paper quoted the Albanian President, Rexhep Meidani, as ranking Albania in the top place among East European countries with respect to the intellectuals? exodus. Segments from the report are below: Now it is not being called brain drain but brain loss. With these words the exodus of Albania?s intellectuals over the last ten years of transition was defined at a seminar held on Wednesday in Tirana under the auspices of the Soros foundation, as part of a project on public administration. Capajev Gjokutaj, director of this foundation in Albania, said in his opening speech that emigration was especially problematic when one considers the fact that most of the emigrant scientists and intellectuals do not work in their chosen professions. Rather, they do ordinary jobs, which he considers as brain loss. But the Soros foundation has decided to make significant investments in enticing Albania?s exported brain to return. The returnees will be rewarded with salaries four times higher than those of the state. President Rexhep Meidani demanded that the state support and encourage the employment of dozens of intellectuals, especially the youthful. The head of the Albanian state disclosed that Albania tops the list of East European countries regarding the emigration of intellectuals. According to him, 31.5 percent of the intellectuals of Albania had left the country, followed by Poland, with 16.5 percent. He commended the initiative of the Soros foundation to create conditions for the return of intellectuals and to prevent the exodus of those who are still in the country but might leave tomorrow. Meidani expressed concern that not only Albania but the entire region would not be developed if intellectuals continued to leave. The Soros foundation has undertaken a defined plan in this field and a public administration programme is currently being implemented. It is anticipated that priority will be given to graduates under the age of 35 who have developed a reputation and postgraduates. The project will include the ministries of Foreign Affairs, Finance, Trade etc. Details: Document Title: Soros: Let?s Take Albanian Intellectuals Back! Document Source: Koha jone - Albania Region: ECA Country: Albania Issue/Sector: Education ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From fisnike at hotmail.com Fri May 19 11:51:18 2000 From: fisnike at hotmail.com (Venera Bekteshi) Date: Fri May 19 11:51:18 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] employment opportunity Message-ID: <20000519155111.96146.qmail@hotmail.com> >POSITION AVAILABLE >PART TIME PROGRAM ASSISTANT - DEPARTMENT OF REGIONAL FOUNDATIONS IN BOSNIA AND >HERZEGOVINA, CROATIA, KOSOVO, MACEDONIA, MONTENEGRO, SLOVENIA AND YUGOSLAVIA >DATE: APRIL 24, 2000 > > >The Open Society Institute is a private operating and grantmaking foundation that >promotes the development of open societies around the world. OSI is part of an >informal network of more than 30 autonomous nonprofit foundations and other >organizations created and funded by philanthropist George Soros in Central and >Eastern Europe, the former Soviet Union, Guatemala, Haiti, and South Africa, as >well as in the United States. In the United States, programs have been developed >in the areas of criminal justice, drug policy, immigration, and death and dying, >and new initiatives are under way in the areas of education and youth >development, reproductive health and rights, media and journalism and >professional ethics in law and medicine. > >The Department of the Regional Foundations in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, >Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia and Yugoslavia is looking for a >self-motivated, well organized student who will be working part-time to provide >support with administrative and program duties. > >RESPONSIBILITIES: >* Conducting daily research of various sources of news and information >available on the world wide web and forwarding any pertinent news, information or >new sources of news and information to the attention of appropriate department >members; >* Gathering and organizing information from other sources such as >governmental and non-governmental reports, both in the US and abroad; >* Managing the department library; >* Performing administrative duties including answering the phone, >typing/word-processing, checking e-mail, filing, faxing, handling outgoing >correspondence and incoming fax logs, photocopying, sorting and distributing >mail; >* Handling application process for visas to all the countries where members >of the department have occasion to visit; >* Occasionally, translating from the foreign language(s) to English and >writing brief news and text summaries. > >QUALIFICATIONS: >* Familiarity with the Balkans and Southeastern Europe and/or interest in the >region >* Fluency in Albanian essential; proficiency in Croatian and/or Serbian a >plus >* Computer literacy (Microsoft Word) >* Strong research and written skills >* Flexibility and willingness to work on a range of tasks from the mundane to >the more creative projects >* Available approximately 20 - 30 hours per week > >COMPENSATION: HOURLY RATE COMMENSURATE WITH SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE > >START DATE: AS SOON AS POSSIBLE > >TO APPLY: SEND COVER LETTER, RESUME AND THREE REFERENCES TO: > >OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE >HUMAN RESOURCES - BALK/PT >400 WEST 59TH STREET, 4TH FLOOR >NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10019 >OR FAX TO: (212) 548-4663 > >NO TELEPHONE CALLS PLEASE. > >THE OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From h-rengier at gmx.de Fri May 19 13:49:32 2000 From: h-rengier at gmx.de (h-rengier at gmx.de) Date: Fri May 19 13:49:32 2000 Subject: [Prishtina-E] Words of Gratitude References: <20000519100712.41713.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <435.958758565@www6.gmx.net> Thank you Jennifer for the valuable informations regarding the Albanians of the main land and the Kosovars whom I alawys have seen part and parcel of each other. But something has escaped my notice, why should they not unite when surrounded by their enemy; at least they should have a common cause to bring them together, regardless of the different political experiences they went through? Why for God sake should the take the view of the Internation Community into consideration? Are they not free to choose whom they should unite with or should all decisions be taken by the so called international community which seems to dictate every resolution? Alone they will never survive, but with their brothers and sisters in the Albanian Republic, on one condition, if they both agree to do that through a referandum. Dear Jennife, the remedy for the Kosovars is unification by by all means, otherwise the whole region is walking on thin ice. Sincerely yours Hany -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From etrit at alb-net.com Mon May 29 23:35:35 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Prishtina-E] Press: Kosovo mourners pay tribute to slain reporters Message-ID: Kosovo mourners pay tribute to slain reporters PRISTINA, Yugoslavia (Reuters) - Politicians, diplomats, officials and colleagues in Kosovo paid tribute on Friday to two journalists killed in Africa this week, saying their reporting had focused international attention on the province. Reuters correspondent Kurt Schork and Associated Press television cameraman-producer Miguel Gil Moreno de Mora, who were shot dead in an ambush in Sierra Leone Wednesday, had spent much of the past two years reporting on Kosovo. Veton Surroi, an independent politician and publisher of the Kosovo daily newspaper Koha Ditore, recalled Schork's prodigious output from Kosovo in the year of conflict between Serbs and ethnic Albanians which led up to NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. "In his stories, a conflict became understood and the participants in the conflict had a face, had a name, had a story to tell. Kosovo was not just a point on the map," he said. "Through his stories, it had become a narrative of suffering and of the need to stop that suffering," he told mourners at the memorial service in the Kosovo capital Pristina. "When the Kosovars couldn't travel from one city to the other... we found out what was happening in the villages around Pristina through Miguel's camera, pegged to the front lines of the war," Surroi said. Around 50 people packed into a room in the offices of Koha Ditore, which had organized the service, to hear the tributes. Pictures of Schork, a bespectacled 53-year-old, and Gil Moreno de Mora, a 32-year-old Spaniard, were displayed on a table. Among the mourners were the heads of the U.S. and British missions in Kosovo and Hashim Thaqi, leader of the Democratic Party of Kosovo and former commander of the Kosovo Liberation Army, whose campaign against Serb rule was covered by both men. Also present were staffers from the United Nations and other international organizations, many of whom recalled earlier reports from Schork and Gil Moreno de Mora in Bosnia which built both of them a formidable reputation within journalism. Journalists and officials also observed a moment's silence at international agencies' regular news briefing in Pristina. David Slinn, the head of the British government's mission in Kosovo, said Schork, an American, had been admired and respected across ethnic boundaries and beyond his profession. "He had lots of friends amongst the Kosovo Albanian community. He had lots of friends among the Kosovo Serb community," Slinn told the memorial service. "His aim was good for man, for mankind - and that's what drove him." From etrit at alb-net.com Mon May 29 23:36:55 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Prishtina-E] I want to help (fwd) Message-ID: This is a great idea. Does anyone have any t-shirts with the fotos of Albin or Flora? Etrit. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- I am a delegate for the upcoming Democratic Convention in Los Angeles. I want to wear something political concerning the prisoners especially Albin Kurti or Flora Brovina....where can a obtain a t shirt with their photos? Las-Vegas, NV....America From etrit at alb-net.com Wed May 31 01:03:55 2000 From: etrit at alb-net.com (Etrit Bardhi) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Prishtina-E] News: Saddam Urges Yugoslavia to Jointly Resist the U.S. Message-ID: Saddam Urges Yugoslavia to Jointly Resist the U.S. BAGHDAD (Reuters) - President Saddam Hussein called on Monday on Yugoslavia to work jointly with Iraq to resist the United States and its allies. ``Our trench and battle are one. It's not a courtesy when we say we stand with Yugoslavia. We mean it because our enemy is common and we have to work to cripple him,'' the official Iraqi news agency quoted Saddam as saying. Saddam was speaking while receiving the head of the Serbian parliament and first deputy of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic, Dragan Tomic. Earlier this year, Saddam called on Yugoslavia to ally itself closely with Baghdad to resist the United States and its western allies. Saddam also condemned NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia last year, which Western leaders said was intended to halt Belgrade's repression of Kosovo's mostly Muslim ethnic Albanians. U.S.-led multinational forces drove Iraqi troops out of Kuwait after Iraq's 1990 invasion. Belgrade and Baghdad enjoy good relations, enjoying solidarity in part because they are both internationally isolated and under sanctions.