[Prishtina-E] Re: [Prishtina-l] Re: [ALBANIAN] Serb Terror hi ts US

[besnik.grajqevci at bt.com]

Hi Jeton,

Excuse my ignorance, but I seem to be unable to figure out what are you
proposing. In other words what is your point, apart from giving us your
views on Albert's and Chris's writing.
Are you saying that to keep the "goodwill towards Kosovar Albanians" we
should fight the serb cause? At the moment we should be very busy with our
own issues to worry much about theirs. 
When are we going to focus on the real issues, the ones that matter for us?
Are we ever going to stop being followers, sticking to the agendas set for
us? When are we going to have our own agenda and follow it through to
completion?
If we keep crying about the "great injustice" that has been done to us, all
that we will get will be that "goodwill". Is that what we need. Can the
goodwill towards us build a stable and secure environment for the people of
Kosova?

I better stop, before I get into long elaboration. I believe it will suffice
to say that there are two type of people, leaders and followers (the ones
who set the rules and the ones who follow them). I say we should stop being
followers and we should start setting some rules. And for the ones who will
argue that we are too small to set rules, I will say no one is to small to
set rules for themselves.

I would like to ask the crucial question once more, more directly:

"Are we more concerned what the others think of us or what kind of future we
want for ourselves?"

keep happy

Besnik


-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: jeton ademaj [mailto:jeton at hotmail.com]
-> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 8:59 PM
-> To: prishtina-l at alb-net.com; cfisher at mailbag.com;
-> ALBANIAN at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
-> Cc: prishtina-e at alb-net.com
-> Subject: [Prishtina-E] Re: [Prishtina-l] Re: [ALBANIAN] Serb 
-> Terror hits
-> US
-> 
-> 
->              --- Prishtina-E Discussion Forum ---
->         Archives: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-e
-> 
-> hi everyone,
-> 
-> sorry to see more short-sighted B.S. oozing around on these 
-> forums, but it 
-> makes it necessary to note that Albanian causes are not served by 
-> reactionary ignorance.
-> 
-> Albert and Chris, u have my added indulgence bcuz u r (i 
-> hope) Albanians... 
-> but do u really think u sound ********any******** different 
-> than say, Mira 
-> Markovic on 60 Minutes (during the bombing) saying "dere iss 
-> no Et-nik 
-> klenzing, itt iss like u say itt iss January and itt iss 
-> May..." . in other 
-> words, i don't think u can afford to ignore how dis-creditable your 
-> arguments are.
-> 
-> ...you can shout about how the Serbs have usurped our land 
-> and history for 
-> centuries, but why would u assume that you'd be credible? i 
-> mean, ****if i 
-> were an uninterested third party reading your diatribe i'd 
-> assume i must 
-> quarantine all further Albanian claims of sufferring**** 
-> bcuz your horror 
-> and indignation are plainly mixing with transparent attempts 
-> at propaganda. 
-> cheap, lowly and UN-credible propaganda...
-> Albanians have earned their credibility thru real suffering 
-> and real blood, 
-> why diminish that by denying that a tiny percentage of 
-> Albanians  are 
-> endangering Kosova's future thru attacks on Albanians and Serbs and 
-> Minorities... there is still much goodwill toward Kosovar 
-> Albanians, but it 
-> *is* starting to erode, and the weak unbelievable denials of 
-> people like 
-> Albert and Chris are fuel for this process.
-> 
-> btw, i find that joining a panel discussion is not hard if u 
-> can properly 
-> credential yourself (even as a plain-old "community 
-> activist") and have (or 
-> aquire!) a reputation for *credible* argument....
-> 
-> here is an article indicating that Kosovar Leaders know they 
-> must address 
-> this issue, but first a notice from this weeks Village Voice 
-> about a show 
-> this Saturday benefitting Kosovar rape victims (if i get any 
-> more info on 
-> this i'll post it):
-> 
-> tung!
-> 
-> "One Voice: Music Without Borders"
-> A rare chance to go dancing and make a difference at the 
-> same time. Once 
-> again the Frying Pan is the site of another outstanding 
-> lineup of music with 
-> Rha Goddess, Rachid, Electronic Diva Jeannette Romeu/Galaxy 
-> Girl, Shakti 
-> Spirit Dance Ensemble, and DJ Sevenz spinning Goa trance, 
-> plus Rene Collins, 
-> Chavachant, and Big Dream. DJ Dots (Wanderlust) with 
-> breakbeat/techno, 
-> turntablist DJ Shamus (The Snowball Collective) DJ Tuffist 
-> and DJ Pinnacle 
-> (Konkrete Jungle) spin jungle wax. Eve Ensler and the cast 
-> of the Vagina 
-> Monologues are also scheduled to appear for the 
-> causeùraising funds for 
-> Kosovar rape victims. (Romano)
-> 
-> Sat 7/29
-> Frying Pan
-> Pier 63 Chelsea Piers, Manhattan
-> --
-> 
-> and the article......
-> Tuesday, July 25 6:33 AM SGT
-> Serbs, Albanian Kosovar leaders declare "Pact against Violence"
-> WASHINGTON, July 24 (AFP) -
-> Three days of talks between Kosovo Serbs and ethnic 
-> Albanians ended with 
-> both sides declaring a "Pact against Violence," the US State 
-> Department and 
-> the private US Institute of Peace said Monday.
-> The first intensive face-to-face discussions between ethnic 
-> Albanian and 
-> Serb Kosovars facilitated by the institute were aimed at 
-> getting the two 
-> sides working toward a multi-ethnic society in Kosovo, still 
-> torn by ethnic 
-> violence.
-> Participants who concluded the session Sunday agreed to 
-> respect the outcome 
-> of upcoming "free and fair" municipal elections, cooperate 
-> in identifying 
-> perpetrators of crime and to urge their respective 
-> communities to surrender 
-> illegal arms, the institute said in a statement.
-> They also agreed to counter Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic's 
-> influence in Kosovo and to dissolve any illegitimate 
-> governing and security 
-> structures, the statement said.
-> According to Serbian Orthodox Bishop Artmije Radosavljevic, 
-> a joint leader 
-> of the Serb delegation, the pact is the first positive 
-> document reached in 
-> talks between Serbs and Albanians in 100 years, the statement said.
-> The round-table talks -- initiated by the US State 
-> Department and organized 
-> by the Institute of Peace -- began early Friday and ended at 
-> 11:00 p.m. 
-> Sunday (0300 GMT Monday), a spokeswoman for the institute said.
-> Delegates included General Agim Ceku, ex-Kosovo Liberation 
-> Army (KLA) head 
-> who is now leading its civilian successor the Kosovo 
-> Protection Corps, as 
-> well as leaders of the two main ethnic Albanian parties, 
-> Hashim Thaci and 
-> Ibrahim Rugova.
-> The Serb delegation is led by Rada Trajkovic as well as 
-> Bishop Radosavljevic 
-> of the Serbian National Council (SNV). Some 40 Kosovo Serbs 
-> and ethnic 
-> Albanians participated.
-> The "Airlie Declaration," named after the Airlie House, 
-> Warrenton, Virginia 
-> location where the talks were held, will be available from 
-> the US State 
-> Department at 10:00 a.m. (1400 GMT) Tuesday.
-> It will fully outline commitments made by both sides and is 
-> expected to 
-> contain details of the role both Serbs and ethnic Albanians want the 
-> international community to play in Kosovo.
-> "Although agreements were difficult and hard-won, the spirit 
-> in which they 
-> approached each other was nothing short of remarkable," 
-> Institute of Peace 
-> executive vice president Harriet Hentges said.
-> She told AFP the talks had allowed for an "open, difficult 
-> but constructive 
-> exchange about some of the pain they felt, some of the anger."
-> "Recriminations were there but also a very keen listening 
-> about what the 
-> other was saying," added Hentges, who was vice chair of the meeting.
-> "There was genuine appreciation of the suffering that each 
-> community has 
-> experienced and that is a very important beginning, a very 
-> important first 
-> step.
-> "When people come out of a warring conflict situation such 
-> as these people 
-> you have to be realistic what your goals are," she said.
-> "We didn't have preset ideas" for how the talks would go, 
-> Hentges added. "We 
-> wanted the ideas to come from them. We wanted an open dialogue, some 
-> commitment to concrete steps. We got both of those."
-> 
-> 
-> 
-> >             --- Forumi i diskutimeve Prishtina-L ---
-> >        Arkivi: www.alb-net.com/pipermail/prishtina-l
-> >Chris mate, you are spot on. You've crossed all the Ts and 
-> dotted the Is. 
-> >We are taking this fragile freedom for granted. We should 
-> be doing more 
-> >because it really ain't over until it is absolutely, 
-> unquestionably, 
-> >no_bloody_going_back, once_'n'_for_all over.
-> >
-> >It is most probably true that the Serbs are plotting plans 
-> and drawing 
-> >strategies about how to conquer Kosova once more, in ten, 
-> twenty or even 
-> >fifty years time. If we don't have our plans to deter them, 
-> if we don't 
-> >work in the opposite direction so not to even let them have 
-> the slightest 
-> >chance to claim their claims then we have failed.
-> >
-> >They are a funny sort, them Serbs. They are so bloody 
-> stubborn and never 
-> >give up. We need to be even more stubborn. Stubborn to the 
-> highest degree 
-> >and never ever give up what we have - our beloved Kosova.
-> >
-> >So I say to you all brothers and sisters, do not fall for 
-> (as Chris says) 
-> >poor little serby-werbie stories and lies. Do NOT feel 
-> sorry for "their 
-> >sufferings" (because be damn sure that they ain't feeling 
-> sorry for yours, 
-> >nor for mine, nor for the sufferings of any Albanian 
-> alive), do NOT agree 
-> >with anything they say, do NOT be prepared to accept any 
-> apologies from 
-> >them (for what they have done), do NOT and do NOT and just do NOT.
-> >
-> >This one is just on the side. The other day I read an 
-> appalling piece of 
-> >information on QIK's website. Mr Gazmend Pula whom I used 
-> to respect 
-> >awfully much and who acts as head of Helsinki's committee 
-> for Human Rights 
-> >in Kosova said that position of the Kosovan Serbs is very 
-> bad. He even went 
-> >to say that their basic human rights have been drastically 
-> endangered. They 
-> >might have been. They most probably bloody are to a certain 
-> extent but, we 
-> >Albanians are not bloody supposed to say this and more so 
-> we do NOT need 
-> >these sorts of comments from leading Kosovan figures. They are very 
-> >damaging and shall cause us only problems and grief and 
-> then more problems 
-> >and more grief so we might end up where we were 10 years ago.
-> >
-> >I hope I am not being pushy and unclear in any way, and I 
-> do sincerely hope 
-> >that you have taken the message in. If you haven't then 
-> I've wasted my 
-> >time.
-> >
-> >With best regards,
-> >Albert
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >>From: Christopher Fisher <cfisher at MAILBAG.COM>
-> >>Reply-To: cfisher at mailbag.com
-> >>To: ALBANIAN at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
-> >>Subject: Re: [ALBANIAN] Serb Terror hits US
-> >>Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:01:25 -0500
-> >>
-> >>__________________________Albanian Discussion 
-> List________________________
-> >>     Archives: 
-> http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/albanian.html
-> >>___________________________________________________________
-> _______________
-> >>
-> >>Tung të gjithëve!
-> >>
-> >>I think Thomas has it right on the money, but sadly it 
-> seems that at
-> >>least some folks in the Albanian community (at least here 
-> in the US), by
-> >>my experience just "aren't getting it".  The Mititch 
-> incident should
-> >>serve as a wake-up call not only to the Albanian community and its
-> >>supporters, but even to those poor souls who have been deluded into
-> >>beliving the "poor little Serby-Werbies" image the Serb 
-> nationalists
-> >>have tried to cultivate so hard the last dozen or so years.
-> >>
-> >>Where I live, in Madison WI, there was a "panel 
-> discussion" held on the
-> >>aniversary of the start of the NATO bombings.  Nick 
-> Kostich (who I would
-> >>call a "sneazel", combining the worst elements of snake 
-> and weazel) was
-> >>one of the participants, as well as a Serbian visiting 
-> prof. at the UW,
-> >>and a very pro-Serbian radio commentator at a local 
-> "listener-sponsored"
-> >>station known for its extreme left-wing views.  The only half-way
-> >>objective member of the panel was a local cartographer.  
-> There were no
-> >>Albanians on the panel, nor was any attempt made to 
-> contact any members
-> >>of the community until the last moment.  I do not blame all of the
-> >>organizers-the non-Serb ones seemed to be genuine in their 
-> desire to
-> >>find an Albanian representative, but honestly did not seem 
-> to know where
-> >>to look (and I am sure the Serbian-American woman who 
-> helped them to
-> >>organize it, who is also a member of the Serbian Unity 
-> Congress did not
-> >>help much in that regard either), due to the fact that our local
-> >>Albanian community has quite a low profile, unfortunatly.
-> >>
-> >>The event came off as just what I thought it would: A love 
-> feast/pity
-> >>party for the Serbs, and with plenty of half-whispered "National
-> >>Enquirer" type sensationalism on the part of the 
-> "panelists" as to the
-> >>mysterious plots and plans for the Albanians to bring 
-> about a state of
-> >>"greater Albania", which of course it was aluded would be a
-> >>fundamentalist Islamic state with aims of making Europe 
-> safe for Osama
-> >>Bin Laden.
-> >>
-> >>But what was worst was the fact that there were *no* members of the
-> >>Albanian community or supporters there other than myself!  
-> Though some
-> >>could not attend because of the fact that it was a Friday evening,
-> >>historically the busiest in the Restaurant business, others did not
-> >>bother because, in the words of one chap "The Serbs have 
-> lost Kosova for
-> >>good-who cares what they try to do now?"
-> >>
-> >>Folks, in the words of Yogi Berra: "It ain't over 'till 
-> it's over"!  We
-> >>cannot afford this kind of apathy.  Though we hope Kosova 
-> will be truly
-> >>independent, and it looks like the structures are being 
-> set into place
-> >>for its de facto independence in 2 more years, we can 
-> afford to take
-> >>nothing for granted.  And the fact is that if we are 
-> apathetic over the
-> >>Mititch incident, what then *will* it take for us to 
-> become suitably
-> >>outraged, and realize that though the battle has been won, 
-> we still need
-> >>to win the war?
-> >>
-> >>What can we do, then, to make sure that people are aware 
-> that this is
-> >>how the Serbs have behaved, are behaving, and will behave for the
-> >>forseeable future?  Well, how about informational pickets 
-> (like perhaps
-> >>at Attorney Kostich's home) and encouraging boycotts of Serb-run
-> >>businesses whose owners have expressed 
-> anti-Albanian/Bosnian/Croat/etc.
-> >>sentiments, or support for the current nationalist bent of the
-> >>Serbo-slavian government?  In Milwaukee, Serb Hall has a 
-> Friday night
-> >>fish fry so popular that they had to put a drive up window 
-> to handle all
-> >>the people.  Wonder what would happen that fish fry if there were
-> >>lawful, peaceful pickets every Friday out there?  These 
-> protestations
-> >>should be *permanent* until such time as the 
-> Serbian-American community
-> >>retracts its support for Serb nationalism (esp. scum like Voislav
-> >>Sheslj), and appologises for it's position.  Cold day in 
-> hell before
-> >>that happens, you say?  Perhaps.  But in that case, they 
-> may find it's a
-> >>"hell" of a long time before they can go back to "business 
-> as usual".
-> >>
-> >>Të fala,
-> >>
-> >>Chris
-> >>
-> >>
-> >>Thomas G. Coonan wrote:
-> >> >
-> >> > __________________________Albanian Discussion 
-> >>List________________________
-> >> >     Archives: 
-> http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/albanian.html
-> >> > 
-> >>___________________________________________________________
-> _______________
-> >> >
-> >> > Mititch is following the example of Milosevic's thugs 
-> who stage acts of
-> >> > violence in Kosova (against Serb civilians and property) so the
-> >> > Albanians can be blamed by a gullible international 
-> community!  They 
-> >>use
-> >> > this also to justify their own violent rampages (ie. 
-> Mitrovica) as a
-> >> > response for being the innocent victims!  Liars, liars, liars!
-> >> >
-> >> > -TC
-> >> >
-> >> > MAN CHARGED IN BREAK-IN AT GUARD BASE
-> >> >
-> >> > [...]
-> >> > Mititch is suspected of breaking into the 128th, 
-> scrawling graffiti on
-> >> > two buildings and writing "Free Kosova" on a satellite 
-> dish at the Air
-> >> > National Guard compound.
-> >> >
-> >> > [...]
-> >> > '"Kosova" is the way Albanians refer to the region; 
-> Serbs refer to it 
-> >>as
-> >> > "Kosovo." Mititch identified himself to Milwaukee 
-> police in 1998 as
-> >> > Serbian.
-> >> >
-> >> > [...]
-> >> > Asked why Mititch would spell "Kosovo" in the Albanian 
-> manner, Veleusic
-> >> > shrugged and said, "Everyone is trying to trick somebody."
-> >> >
-> >> > Christopher Fisher wrote:
-> >> > >
-> >> > > __________________________Albanian Discussion 
-> >>List________________________
-> >> > >     Archives: 
-> http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/albanian.html
-> >> > > 
-> >>___________________________________________________________
-> _______________
-> >> > >
-> >> > > To: ALBANIAN at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU
-> >> > > From: cfisher at mailbag.com (Christopher Fisher)
-> >> > > Subject: Serb Terror hits US
-> >> > >
-> >> > > This story was sent from the Milwaukee Journal 
-> Sentinel Online: 
-> >>http://www.jsonline.com
-> >> > > It was sent by Christopher Fisher 
-> (cfisher at mailbag.com) on Friday, 
-> >>July 21, 2000 at 01:33:07
-> >> > > 
-> >>-----------------------------------------------------------
-> ----------------
-> >> > >
-> >> > > Name: Albanian Discussion List
-> >> > >
-> >> > > http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jul00/128th21072000a.asp
-> >> > >
-> >>
-> >>___________________________________________________________
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