[NYC-L] NYC-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 10

Wed Oct 26 23:10:37 EDT 2005

I generally don’t like to engage in endless cyber-debates, especially since the meaning of something I had posted was fully misconstrued, which seems to be a proof that no one took the time to actually read it but it appears that some did read through it! Given the time some of you took to read through my posting, I feel obliged to reply. 

Erica Weitzman:

Dear Erica, how very kind of you to have worked in Kosovo be sure that I, as any other Albanian, remain extremely grateful to not only your contribution but all those who were and are there to genuinely effect a change (small may though the number be of such philanthropists in the Kosovo mission). 

As to your reply, you say “You should not use Israel as a model for Kosovo's Independence
” and I ask you to make reference in my posting where I call for an Israeli model on the future of Kosova’s independence!? Please re-read my posting again, and what you will find me suggesting is to simply utilize whatever political leverage we hold with Israel towards Kosova’s independence. 

As to you suggesting me that “nor should you look to Albania's 1949 recognition of Israel independence as a good deed.” I choose to believe that such action was a good deed, and respect your take on the matter as well and will not try to influence or patronize you with 'should-s' and 'shouldn't-s.‘Should’ and ‘should not’ were instruments of censorship on the right to practice freedom of expression in the previous communist regime in Albania and I am highly sensitive to such instructions!

Second: Visar Belegu 

I wish I knew of which other complaints you have heard on the failure of Albanian diplomacy, should you know of any, please be kind enough to share them with us here. But let me get to the point here: Fan Noli was not the Albanian diplomat who ‘excerpted effects‘ from President Willson, it was Faik Konica. Please check the Prof. Arben Puto last book on Albanian diplomacy to get your historical facts right. Fan Noli, though a marvelous erudite figure he may have been in literature, politics, philology, theology, music and philosophy, a distingushed diplomat he never was though a diplomat he may have been.

As to your portrayal of the present Albanian political establishment, let me say that I find it a bit pessimistic and negative, but is your opinion and I respect it although I may not agree with it.

You say “The people of Kosova have shown maturity that they deserve independence and we do not need to rely on "favors" that a communist Albanian goverment gave” Not quite sure to percisley which maturity you are referring to friend, perhpse you have not being following the news in the passed two years but there has been some heck of political IMMATURITY by both the political establishment and the people in Kosova. Need I remind you of the March events or the situation of minorities in Kosova? Secondly, I didn’t make any claim that the Albanian communist regime ‘gave’ or did any favors, not for Kosova not for Albania not for any living Albanian on the face of the earth! However, those little political actions that it did take in the international scene can be used to our advantage today. My point was simply this: If Albania recognized Israel, Israel should recognize Kosova, and frankly I don’t see anything wrong in this. How Erica, Visar and Antogona read, understood and interpreted
 my posing, that is something that I cannot control, in the end it comes down to individual perceptions.

One more note on Visar: First you say that we should relay on our scientists and then you go on to say that no Albanian should be allowed to study political science for the next 50-100 years??? Interesting that someone that sells for an enlightened fellow like yourself should make such insinuations, such statements my friend are the epiphany of the communist sub-conciseness of the Albanian “this should be allowed” and “those should not be allowed for I know best!” These are the type of expressions of that old political mind-set of communist Albania i.e. Albanian traditional arrogance coupled with the pseudo-communist credos!

And finally Visar, diplomacy does play a role and does matter. A very famous and polished Albanian lady by the name of Parashqevi Qiriazi who represented the Albanian-American colony at the Peace conference in Paris from 1919 to 1920 noted "If there is no one to raise your issue at the table, your issue won’t be raised and worst even if your representation at the table is poor, while then your issue is a comical affair." 

Antigona:

My post has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If you wish to express your knowledge on the issue, please open a new topic relating to the the point you so passionately wish to make.

Thank you all and next time someone posts something, try to be nicer, is not as if we are dividing property here (as an Albanian saying goes) we are simply trying to communicate, but I do understand how being Albanian and trying to communicate can be difficult sometimes!

Cheers!

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: NYC-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 9 (ak2480 at columbia.edu)
2. Re: Albanian-Israeli relations and the recognition of
Kosova's independence (Erkanda Bujari)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:49:44 -0400
From: ak2480 at columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [NYC-L] NYC-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 9
To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
Message-ID: <1130312984.435f3518da77f at cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Erica Weitzman:

Your message is certainly welcome on this list-serve and what you
said is exactly what came to my mind when I read the e-mail
regarding the ?good political actions of the Albanian government in
the past (such as the recognition of Israel)?? In fact, you took the
words right out of my mouth.

Just as you have learned about and empathized with the Palestinian
struggle through the Kosovar Albanian struggle, I too have done the
same and thus, must question anyone who is proud of and/or promotes
establishing strong ties with Israel ? a sate that uses blatant
acts of institutionalized discrimination to collectively punish and
humiliate Palestinians, has assassinated a long line of Palestinian
intellectuals and activists, routinely attacks Palestinian
civilians on a daily basis, has imprisoned and continues to
arbitrarily detain thousands of Palestinian males and prosecute
them in a system of legalized racist laws, employs the Israeli
Defense Forces (IDF) to protect armed Jewish fundamentalist
settlers that attack and stone Palestinian children on their way to
school and tear down Palestinian olive trees (a means of subsistence
for many Palestinian families)?.not to mention the countess U.N.
resolutions that Israel has consistently ignored and failed to
comply with ? and with the relentless backing of the U.S. who gives
Israel billions of dollars in military aid, effectively giving them
a free hand to do as they please to the Palestinians.

Oh yeah and there?s also that great big West Bank barrier, the wall
that has besieged the Palestinian population and their towns and
villages. They are now cut off from schools, hospitals, vital land
and water supplies. Many Palestinian women are forced to give birth
at checkpoints while those Palestinians who are in dire need of
medical care are denied the freedom of movement go to the hospital.
I should also mention that the International Court of Justice (ICJ)
in its 9 July 2004 advisory opinion held, inter alia, that the
construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is
illegal; that Israel should dismantle the wall; and that Israel
should pay reparations to those individuals who had suffered as a
consequence of the construction of the wall. Israel has done
nothing to comply with this decision despite the fact that their
own Supreme Court affirmed that parts of this wall contravened
international humanitarian and human rights law.

My point is - I know that I do not want my country and its people
(who have been just as humiliated and repressed under the Serbs as
the Palestinians have under the rule of the psychopaths in the
Israeli government) to support such a state. This is, as Erica
Weitzman stated in her e-mail, a truly ?dangerous model? (!)

SO...for anyone who thinks that if Kosova allies with such a state,
it will be a ?good political action,? I urge you to rethink your
statement. Also, think about what sort of consequences this will
entail. (And by the way, what kind of picture will this portray
with regard to Albanian diplomacy? Would this be considered skilled
diplomacy? I certainly think not.) In addition, I encourage you to
look into what happened when the state of Israel was established in
1948. It?s an absolute shame that Albania supported Israel?s
independence considering the manner in which Israel was established
and the fate of the Palestinians who were living there before they
were terrorized by Jewish armed gangs. Thousands of Palestinians
lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the
1948 Arab-Israeli conflict or Israel?s war of independence. Today
there are more than 4.1 million Palestinian refugees in the Middle
East that live in shitty refugee camps to say the least.

Our history of resistance, struggle and oppression should teach us
about the histories of other people who live under oppression and
occupation. Try to put their struggle in the context of ours and
maybe, your eyes will open up to what you were blind to.

Kindest Regards,
Antigona Kukaj

P.S. If there are any of you who want to explore the parallels b/w
Israel and Serbia further, especially with respect to state
violence, I highly recommend that you check out the book,
Frontiers and Ghettos: State Violence in Serbia and Israel by James
Ron (University of California Press, May 2003).

Quoting nyc-l-request at alb-net.com:

> Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific
> than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Albanian-Israeli relations and the recognition of
> Kosova
> (Visar Belegu)
> 2. Re: Albanian-Israeli relations and the recognition of
> Kosova
> (Valon Xharra)
> 3. Re: Albanian-Israeli relations and the recognition of
> Kosova's independence (Erica Weitzman)
> 4. Re: Albanian-Israeli relations and the recognition of
> Kosova's independence (KL3V1S)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:08 -0500
> From: "Visar Belegu" 
> Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Albanian-Israeli relations and the
> recognition of
> Kosova
> To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>
> For a long time now I hear about the failiures of the Albanian
> diplomacy.
> If one is to learn from the deeds of say Fan Noli and the effects
> he
> excerted in the American policy toward Albania through his
> relationship with
> President Wilson then such claims become preposterous.
>
> Our failiures toward independece throughout history have been a
> combination
> of our political immaturity at home, greed, division all wrapped
> in
> personalities that can be clearly seen in today's leaders of
> Albania i.e.
> Nano, Berisha, Rugova, Thaqi, Haradinaj, Daci, Surroi and a
> couple of
> others.
>
> Today, however, while our leaders have failied to do so, the
> people have
> shown tremendous maturity in difficult times. The people of
> Kosova have
> shown that they deserve independence and we do not need to rely
> on "favors"
> that a communist Albanian goverment gave. Today, we need to lay
> off me damn
> communist mentality of being over-political and over-paranoid.
> Today, we
> need to rely on our films, poems, engeeniers, doctors, scientists
> and
> professionals of all fields to represent everything that is good
> about our
> culture. Do this right and the world will take note of us.
>
>
> P.S. Not to leave with some kind of semi-radical statment but in
> the
> meantime all Albanians should be banned from studying political
> sciences or
> anything related to it and hopefully in 50-100 years we will get
> rid of the
> handicapped communist mentality.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:00:48 +0000
> From: "Valon Xharra" 
> Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Albanian-Israeli relations and the
> recognition of
> Kosova
> To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> P.S. to P.S. I thought banning people to do what they please was
> part of the
> the communist mentality era.
>
>
> >From: "Visar Belegu" 
> >Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
> City,USA)"
> >
> >To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Albanian-Israeli relations and the
> recognition of
> >Kosova
> >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:08 -0500
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> >
> > === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
> >
> >
> >For a long time now I hear about the failiures of the Albanian
> diplomacy.
> >If one is to learn from the deeds of say Fan Noli and the
> effects he
> >excerted in the American policy toward Albania through his
> relationship
> >with
> >President Wilson then such claims become preposterous.
> >
> >Our failiures toward independece throughout history have been a
> combination
> >of our political immaturity at home, greed, division all wrapped
> in
> >personalities that can be clearly seen in today's leaders of
> Albania i.e.
> >Nano, Berisha, Rugova, Thaqi, Haradinaj, Daci, Surroi and a
> couple of
> >others.
> >
> >Today, however, while our leaders have failied to do so, the
> people have
> >shown tremendous maturity in difficult times. The people of
> Kosova have
> >shown that they deserve independence and we do not need to rely
> on "favors"
> >that a communist Albanian goverment gave. Today, we need to lay
> off me
> >damn
> >communist mentality of being over-political and over-paranoid.
> Today, we
> >need to rely on our films, poems, engeeniers, doctors,
> scientists and
> >professionals of all fields to represent everything that is good
> about our
> >culture. Do this right and the world will take note of us.
> >
> >
> >P.S. Not to leave with some kind of semi-radical statment but
> in the
> >meantime all Albanians should be banned from studying political
> sciences or
> >anything related to it and hopefully in 50-100 years we will get
> rid of the
> >handicapped communist mentality.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >
> >
> >____________________________________________________
> >NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> >Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> >To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> >For more information:
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Erica Weitzman 
> Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Albanian-Israeli relations and the
> recognition of
> Kosova's independence
> To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum \(New York City,
> USA\)" 
> Message-ID: <20051025140758.25716.qmail at web51804.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello,
>
> I didn't want to clog up the listserv, since I'm not
> even Albanian, but since I do have a very personal
> connection to this issue, I wanted to respond.
>
> You should not use Israel as a model for Kosovo's
> independence, nor should you look to Albania's 1949
> (!) recognition of Israel independence as a good deed.
> It was precisely while I was working in Kosovo that I
> became starkly aware of the situation in
> Israel/Palestine. The parallel you should draw is not
> that of Israeli independence to Kosovar independence,
> but of the struggles of Palestinians under an Israeli
> occupier to the struggles of Kosovars under Serbian
> rule. In both cases, there is the same specious claim
> to an originary homeland, the same effort to build
> settlements to populate the land with those of the
> preferred nationality, and the same process of
> discrimination, systematic arrests, and apartheid.
> (Let me state for the record that I am Jewish, so
> supposedly I should be cheering about Israel's
> dominance rather than condemning it.) Indeed, when I
> went to the West Bank in the summer of 2002 to help
> the people there living under occupation, the
> similarities were so striking that I actually
> accidently spoke to some children in Albanian.
>
> Please, support independence for Kosovo all you want,
> but do not use Israel as your model, nor as your
> protector. Get your facts from unbiased sources, and
> recognize who are really your friends in the struggle
> for political justice. If Kosovo would make this kind
> of political compromise before it is even a real
> nation, it is already doomed.
>
> Yours,
> Erica Weitzman
>
> --- Pirro Rexhepi 
wrote:
>
> > === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum
> > ===
> >
> > > Just a month ago The Jewish Center for Public
> > Affairs in its Jewish Political Study Review
> > published an article on the 'Annals of
> > Israeli-Albanian Contacts on Establishing Diplomatic
> > Relations'
> >
> (http://www.jcpa.org/israel-europe/ier-guvrin-f05.htm)
> > by Yosef Govrin.
> >
> > Amongst other issues, the article refers to
> > Albania's friendly and positive response to Israel's
> > request for recognition of its independence in April
> > of 1949. I found the article to be extremely timely
> > and useful in light of the present struggle of
> > Albanians for independence in Kosova. Is important
> > that good political actions of the Albanian
> > government in the past (such as the recognition of
> > Israel) should be utilized in favor of the
> > independence of Kosova. In other words, we should
> > actively look for sponsors for Kosova's independence
> > from those countries that not only we have had good
> > relations with and 'helped' out, but also hold sway
> > in international politics. Is unfortunate however
> > that the Albanian diplomacy was never very skilled
> > in such diplomatic maneuvers!
> >
> > Hope there was a good turn out at the UN
> > demonstration today since I was not able to make it!
> >
> > Peace!
> >
> >
> >
> > nyc-l-request at alb-net.com wrote:Send NYC-L mailing
> > list submissions to
> > nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> > visit
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Award-winning Kosovar film "EXIT" to be screened
> > in New York
> > in November 16 (Kreshnik Berisha)
> >
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:09:04 +0200
> > From: Kreshnik Berisha
> > Subject: [NYC-L] Award-winning Kosovar film "EXIT"
> > to be screened in
> > New York in November 16
> > To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
> >
> > The Kosovar feature film "EXIT", by Lendita Zeqiraj
> > and Blerta Zeqiri,
> > will be screened in New York on November 16, 2005 at
> > the Village East
> > Cinemas at 10PM.
> >
> > The screening is organized as a part of the New York
> > Int. Independent
> > Film and Video Festival (NYIIFV Festival). It comes
> > after the film had
> > its world premiere in the Los Angeles event of the
> > NYIIFV Festival in
> > September, where it won the Best Cinematography
> > Award. This award
> > constitutes the fourth international film award that
> > the two
> > directors-writers won.
> >
> > The film is a breathtaking story about 3
> > Kosovar-Albanian students
> > hiding in a flat during the war in Kosova. Lack of
> > food and
> > information about what's happening on the outside
> > makes the situation
> > unbearable. The three friends are closer than ever
> > to each other, but
> > yet quite far in trying to solve the unsolvable ?
> > find a way out.
> >
> > "EXIT" depicts with immaculate accuracy the
> > situation hundreds of
> > thousands of Albanians were in during the 1999
> > NATO-bombing: stranded
> > in their homes in fear of the Serb-Police and -Army
> > ethnic-cleansing
> > campaign.
> >
> > For more information on the event and film, please
> > visit:
> > http://www.nyfilmvideo.com/2005/lasep2005/exit/
> >
> > For tickets (US$11.00 at Ticketweb) visit:
> >
>
http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=nyc&query=detail&event=633764&interface=
> >
> > Cinema information:
> > 181 2nd Avenue
> > New York, NY 10003
> > (212) 529-6998
> > Theater Express Code: 922
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NYC-L mailing list
> > NYC-L at alb-net.com
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
> >
> > End of NYC-L Digest, Vol 64, Issue 5
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> ____________________________________________________
> > NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> > Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> > To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> > For more information:
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:02:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: KL3V1S 
> Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Albanian-Israeli relations and the
> recognition of
> Kosova's independence
> To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum \(New York City,
> USA\)" 
> Message-ID: <20051025210218.32783.qmail at web52614.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Ekziston vetem nje mik i vertete i shqiptareve qe gjithmone na ka
> ndihmuar ne oren me te
> keqe te kombit: Shtetet e Bashkuara te Amerikes. Askush tjeter
> nuk na ndihmon sepse na
> do...te gjithe te tjeret kane interesa te fshehura. Vetem

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