From nijazi_kryeziu at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  5 02:40:58 2005
From: nijazi_kryeziu at hotmail.com (Nijazi Kryeziu)
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 06:40:58 +0000
Subject: [NYC-L] Propaganda e B92
In-Reply-To: <20050630195624.89383.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY18-F12623FBFC54A42FBC162BEECE60@phx.gbl>

Pershendetje,

Ke te drejte per propaganden e Studio B92 na yahoo.grupin qe e ke cekur dhe 
me te drejte kerkon qe ndonje agjencion lajmesh shqipetare te bej ate qe ti 
kerkon por krejt cka mund te te premtoj eshte se une do te perpiqem te ve 
kontakt kete jave pasi jam ne Kosove gjegjesisht ne Prishtine me 
Kosovapressin, Kosovalive dhe eventualisht me ndonje agjension tjeter qe te 
shohim se cmund te bejme ne kete drejtim ..

Gjithe te mirat

Nijaziu



Democratic Party of Kosova
Officer for Election Campaign and Trainings
Nijazi Kryeziu
Mother Teresa St. No. 20
Prishtina Kosova
emial: nijazi_kryeziu at hotmail.com
          nijazikryeziu at yahoo.com
Tel: 00381 38 224 262
       00377 44 119 118Arma virumque cano (Virgil)
{I sing of arms and a man}

Discere verba et opera dei (VA)
{To read the words and work of God}

Non illegitemi carborundum
{Don't let the bastards get you down}







>From: KL3V1S <euroguy666 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York City,USA)" 
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>Subject: [NYC-L] Propaganda e B92
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>           === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Pershendetje te nderuar antare te listes.
>Vendosa te shkruaj kete email sepse keto muajt e fundit kame vene re nje 
>dukuri e cila me
>ka merzitur.  Sa here qe shkoj per te lexuar lajme rreth Kosoves te 
>news.yahoo.com ve re
>se shumica e artikujve vijne nga radioja serbe B92.  Me perpara, aty ka 
>pasur artikuj nga
>shume  agjensi te ndryshme perfshire BBC, IPR, etj etj.  Tani pothuajse 90% 
>e artikujve
>vijne nga B92 dhe jane teresisht anti-shqiptare, duke pasqyruar nje 
>kendveshtrim eksterem
>serb.  Kjo dukuri ka filluar te behet shume me e dukshme kohet e fundit, qe 
>po afrojne
>dhe diskutimet per statusin perfundimtar te kosoves.  Personalish une jam i 
>bindur se
>pervec pavarsise, zgjidhje tjeter per kosoven nuk ka, por me ben pershtypje 
>se si
>propaganda po vershon ne kete mas edhe ne news.yahoo.com.  A nuk ka agjensi 
>shqiptare qe
>mund te bejne te njejten gje?  Ju lutem pergjigjuni neqofte se keni 
>mendimet tuaja ndaj
>kesaj dukurie.
>Klevis
>
>__________________________________________________
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From eb246 at columbia.edu  Thu Jul  7 20:38:52 2005
From: eb246 at columbia.edu (Erkanda Bujari)
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:38:52 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] WFM Fall Internship Announcements
Message-ID: <42CDCB1C.9000100@columbia.edu>

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From jeton at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 11 05:57:09 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:57:09 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: NYTimes Op-Ed: Serb Denialism
Message-ID: <BAY108-F126DF5ECE345E7CA4B77CAB5DC0@phx.gbl>

this is a good description of widespread denial of history in Serbia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/11/opinion/11Brkic.html

July 11, 2005
The Wages of Denial
By COURTNEY ANGELA BRKIC
Washington

TEN years ago this week, Serbian forces slaughtered more than 7,000 Muslim 
men in the eastern Bosnian town of Srebrenica. Despite the efforts of a 
dedicated few in Serbia, and despite the war crimes prosecutions at The 
Hague, Serbia is no closer today than it was a decade ago to reckoning with 
its war guilt.

For years Belgrade has denied involvement by its citizens in Srebrenica and 
other massacres of the 1990s. The recent broadcast of a graphic video that 
showed Serbian paramilitary police executing six young men from Srebrenica 
should have made it very hard to sustain that revisionism. Amazing as it 
seems, however, the video was not enough to shatter what Serbian human 
rights activist Sonja Biserko has described as the country's "state of 
collective denial."

Fewer than half of Serbs polled last spring believed the Srebrenica massacre 
took place. And while much has been made of the video's effects on a shocked 
Serbian public, it remains to be seen where that public will stand once the 
furor recedes. The Radical Party, which won 27 percent of the popular vote 
in the last national elections, making it the largest party in Parliament, 
has already criticized what it sees as the anti-Serb hysteria that "wishes 
at all costs to put the burden of all crimes on Serbia." Graffiti has 
appeared in several cities praising the "liberation" of Srebrenica. Rumors 
circulate that the video was doctored, or that the men committing the crimes 
were acting independently.

Instead of coming to terms with its past, Serbia has circumvented the issue 
with the narrative skills befitting a psychopath. For example, a debate on 
Srebrenica at the Belgrade Law Faculty earlier this year was initially 
titled "10 Years After the Liberation of Srebrenica." In response to the 
video, Serbia's president, Boris Tadic, said, "Serbia is deeply shocked" 
that "the killers had walked freely among us." But Mr. Tadic's government 
surely knows that the killers in the video are but a small fraction of the 
number who continue to walk the streets of Serbia and Montenegro as free 
men.

A fairy tale has passed for public memory until now in Serbia and Montenegro 
and it is conspicuous in its omission of Serb atrocities in Croatia, 
Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo, which left hundreds of thousands dead. The 
Serbian version of that history denies the fact that President Slobodan 
Milosevic of Yugoslavia and those like him enjoyed overwhelming popular 
support in Serbia during the war, despite the evictions, rapes and unchecked 
slaughter by Yugoslav troops and irregulars. It suggests that Belgrade today 
has nothing to do with Belgrade as it was 10 years ago. It aims at an absurd 
relativism, placing Serbian atrocities within the context of crimes 
committed by other ethnicities (in fact, the C.I.A. has reported that Serbs 
were responsible for 90 percent of all atrocities committed in Bosnia). Mr. 
Tadic was quoted as saying, "Crimes are always individual." All of this is 
fiction.

At the end of the Second World War, Allied troops forced German citizens to 
walk through Nazi death camps. They were confronted by crimes committed in 
their name, in order to ensure that those crimes could not be denied or 
minimized later. The people of Serbia and Montenegro, by contrast, have 
never been forced to acknowledge the crimes committed in their name.

There are those who refuse to whitewash Serbia's recent past. The Helsinki 
Human Rights Committee in Serbia and the independent broadcaster Radio B92 
are admirable examples. People like Natasa Kandic, chairwoman of the 
Humanitarian Law Center in Belgrade, have spent years fighting for the 
truth, often at great personal risk. Extremists threatened to lynch Ms. 
Kandic at the law school debate on Srebrenica, and one of them spat in her 
face.

Eight of Serbia's human rights groups have drafted a declaration on 
Srebrenica that would obligate the country's government to confess to the 
massacre and to "expose and punish any ideological justification of crime." 
But the daily newspaper Blic reported that the majority of parties in 
Serbia's Parliament refused not only to endorse the declaration but also to 
debate it.

Serbia must relinquish the fairy tale that its own wartime suffering was 
equivalent to the devastation it visited on others. Adopting an honest 
declaration on Srebrenica would have been an important first step, and the 
Serbian Parliament should have taken it. For as long as Serbia's people deny 
complicity in war crimes, they undercut any hope for justice and cheat their 
country out of any decent future. The Western aid money that has poured into 
Serbia may help rebuild the country's infrastructure, but it will do nothing 
to cut out the cancer that riddles the country's heart.

Western governments are anxious for reconciliation in the Balkans, which 
would ensure future stability in the region. They are pushing hard for the 
arrests of people like Radovan Karadzic, the architect of the genocide, and 
Ratko Mladic, who carried it out, and they lauded the speed with which the 
Serbian government detained those suspected of being the killers shown on 
the video. But those arrests will not be nearly enough.

Such men were not exceptions, nor were they acting independently, and Serbia 
must acknowledge this truth, rather than denying or minimizing it. That 
means surrendering all war crimes suspects to The Hague and paying 
reparations to the victims of war. The West should ask for no less than this 
when it considers Serbian requests for aid.

Courtney Angela Brkic is the author of "Stillness: And Other Stories" and 
"The Stone Fields," an account of her work excavating mass graves outside 
Srebrenica.




From vxharra at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 11 11:37:58 2005
From: vxharra at hotmail.com (Valon Xharra)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment???
Message-ID: <BAY13-F647A83B5BCE8615B47DB8A9DC0@phx.gbl>

Hi there,
I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this fall and 
was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a nice 
cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC but if 
you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really 
appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
Thanks
Valon

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 11 11:44:29 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment???
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-F647A83B5BCE8615B47DB8A9DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050711154429.3906.qmail@web52610.mail.yahoo.com>

I would suggest you avoid Manhattan at all costs.  Rent prices there are scandalous.  Out
here in Queens it isn't any better, but your chances of finding something less expensive
will be higher. 



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. 
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250


From sekretariati at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 11 11:57:08 2005
From: sekretariati at yahoo.com (Roland Gjoni)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment???
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-F647A83B5BCE8615B47DB8A9DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050711155708.32270.qmail@web52310.mail.yahoo.com>

I just got back from Columbia and would suggest that you stick to dormitory style rooms on campus starting from 110 street like Harmony Hall, Butler Hall, Lionsgate. Actually your admission officer should help you get into contact with the housing people. If you have already done that but have failed to find a room, the cheapest apartments are located above 125th street. 
 
good luck and congratulations
ROLAND

Valon Xharra <vxharra at hotmail.com> wrote:
=== NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===

Hi there,
I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this fall and 
was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a nice 
cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC but if 
you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really 
appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
Thanks
Valon

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

____________________________________________________
NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From luanbicaj at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 11 20:04:11 2005
From: luanbicaj at yahoo.com (Luan Bicaj)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] pershendetje
Message-ID: <20050712000411.19557.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Te nderuar anetare te NYC-L,
 
une jam Luan Bicaj, nga Kosova, dhe momentalisht jam ne nje trajnim profesional ne Washington DC, Universiteti Amerikan, ku do te jem deri me 16 korrik, e pastaj jam ne New York deri me 22 korrik. 
 
Do te ishte kenaqesi te takohem me ju dhe te shkembejme ide e informata ndermjet vete, dhe te njihemi. 
 
Me kontaktoni dhe tregoni ku dhe kur mund te takohemi dhe do te jem shume i gatshem. 
 
Mirepres pergjigje. 
Luani




Add: Dardania SU 5/8, Lam. F, #44 Prishtina/Kosova/UNMIK
Tel: +381 38 500 162, #172
Fax: +381 38 500 188
Mob. +377 44 126-007
Email: luanbicaj at yahoo.com 
Url: http://communities.msn.com/luanbicajkosova/













		
---------------------------------
 Sell on Yahoo! Auctions  - No fees. Bid on great items.
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From florakelmendi at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 12:36:29 2005
From: florakelmendi at gmail.com (Flora Kelmendi)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:36:29 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd:  In need of an apartment???
In-Reply-To: <1121099555.42d29f23826e2@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <1121099555.42d29f23826e2@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <a74a9ed20507120936277f41b3@mail.gmail.com>

Tung Valon,
I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best 
options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but it's 
still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international 
students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them (i.e. if you are 
an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia website. 
 Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and Riverside 
Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the campus. Friends 
of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this information helps!
 Good luck with you search!
Flora
  

----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra <vxharra at hotmail.com>
-----
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
From: Valon Xharra <vxharra at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
City, USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com>
Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment???
To: nyc-l at alb-net.com

=== NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===

Hi there,
I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
fall and
was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
nice
cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
but if
you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really
appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
Thanks
Valon

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

____________________________________________________
NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l

----- End forwarded message -----
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From jeton at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 13 01:18:37 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:18:37 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] apt
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1121230812.5053.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <BAY108-F3317DED428FB761ECB67DEB5DE0@phx.gbl>

i didnt notice anyone mentioning this so i will:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/


>Hi there,
>I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
>fall and
>was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
>nice
>cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
>but if
>you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really
>appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
>Thanks
>Valon
>




From jetkoti at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 14 21:51:58 2005
From: jetkoti at hotmail.com (ms. xa)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:51:58 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd:  In need of an apartment???
In-Reply-To: <a74a9ed20507120936277f41b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV9379874211CEB3B036EF5ADD00@phx.gbl>

Flora,

 

University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus alternatives are
not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share). On the other hand,
International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or 600 for a hole,
literally a hole without even a private bathroom or kitchen-just enough
space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and without Air conditioning
(from what I've seen), and you can hardly even study there.  I would merely
suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx, specifically in the Riverdale
Area, where he can find something both affordable and spacious and
comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can look up some phone numbers of
Albanians who are in the real estate business in the Bronx.

 

XA

 

  _____  

From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On Behalf
Of Flora Kelmendi
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
To: vxharra at hotmail.com
Cc: nyc-l at alb-net.com
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???

 

Tung Valon,

I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best
options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but it's
still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international
students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them ( i.e. if you
are an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia
website. 

 

Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and Riverside
Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the campus. Friends
of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this information helps! 

 

Good luck with you search!

Flora

 

 



----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra <vxharra at hotmail.com>
-----
   Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
   From: Valon Xharra < <mailto:vxharra at hotmail.com>  vxharra at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
City, USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com>
Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment??? 
     To: nyc-l at alb-net.com

         === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===

Hi there,
I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
fall and
was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
nice
cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
but if
you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really 
appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
Thanks
Valon

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's 
FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

____________________________________________________
NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the 
Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l 

----- End forwarded message -----


 

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From mzilo at du.edu  Fri Jul 15 08:53:34 2005
From: mzilo at du.edu (Milena Zilo)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:53:34 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] new to New York
Message-ID: <1725484.1121432014248.JavaMail.mzilo@du.edu>

Hello everyone, 

I am new to New York from Colorado and was wondering if there are any 
Albanian organizations or if there is a chamber of commerce for 
Albanians that meets on a regular basis. 

Thanks, 
Milena 


nyc-l-request at alb-net.com wrote:


>Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Fwd:  In need of an apartment??? (ms. xa)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:51:58 -0400
>From: "ms. xa" <jetkoti at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Fwd:  In need of an apartment???
>To: "'Flora Kelmendi'" <florakelmendi at gmail.com>,	"'Albanians in New
>	York City Discussion Forum \(New York City,	USA\)'"
>	<nyc-l at alb-net.com>, <vxharra at hotmail.com>
>Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV9379874211CEB3B036EF5ADD00 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Flora,
>
> 
>
>University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus alternatives 
are
>not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share). On the other 
hand,
>International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or 600 for a hole,
>literally a hole without even a private bathroom or kitchen-just enough
>space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and without Air 
conditioning
>(from what I've seen), and you can hardly even study there.  I would 
merely
>suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx, specifically in the 
Riverdale
>Area, where he can find something both affordable and spacious and
>comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can look up some phone numbers of
>Albanians who are in the real estate business in the Bronx.
>
> 
>
>XA
>
> 
>
>  _____  
>
>From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On 
Behalf
>Of Flora Kelmendi
>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
>To: vxharra at hotmail.com
>Cc: nyc-l at alb-net.com
>Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
>
> 
>
>Tung Valon,
>
>I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best
>options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but 
it's
>still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international
>students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them ( i.e. if 
you
>are an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia
>website. 
>
> 
>
>Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and 
Riverside
>Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the campus. 
Friends
>of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this information helps! 
>
> 
>
>Good luck with you search!
>
>Flora
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
>----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra <vxharra at hotmail.com>
>-----
>   Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
>   From: Valon Xharra < <mailto:vxharra at hotmail.com>  
vxharra at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
>City, USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com>
>Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment??? 
>     To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
>
>         === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Hi there,
>I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
>fall and
>was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
>nice
>cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
>but if
>you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really 
>appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
>Thanks
>Valon
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's 
>FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>____________________________________________________
>NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the 
>Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
>To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
>For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l 
>
>----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
> 
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: 
http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/attachments/20050714/ddc07773/attachment-0001.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>NYC-L mailing list
>NYC-L at alb-net.com
>http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>
>
>End of NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 7
>************************************
>
>


From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 15 09:07:27 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:07:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] new to New York
In-Reply-To: <1725484.1121432014248.JavaMail.mzilo@du.edu>
Message-ID: <20050715130728.80307.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>


Tung Milena
I have heared that there is a sizable Albanian club at John Jay College.  They even have
a website somewhere.  Might want to check them out if you are in need of something to do.
Tace care
Klevis


		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 


From saimir_1 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jul 15 09:51:39 2005
From: saimir_1 at yahoo.co.uk (Saimir Celo)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:51:39 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [NYC-L] new to New York
In-Reply-To: <1725484.1121432014248.JavaMail.mzilo@du.edu>
Message-ID: <20050715135139.87639.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Per kuriozitet,
 
pse e merrni mundimin te beheni anetare te listave shqiptare dhe te kerkoni shoqata shqiptare kur nuk jeni ne gjendje te komunikoni ne shqip? Kaq shpej u amerikanizuat? 
 
S.C.

Milena Zilo <mzilo at du.edu> wrote:
=== NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===

Hello everyone, 

I am new to New York from Colorado and was wondering if there are any 
Albanian organizations or if there is a chamber of commerce for 
Albanians that meets on a regular basis. 

Thanks, 
Milena 


nyc-l-request at alb-net.com wrote:


>Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
> nyc-l at alb-net.com
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nyc-l-request at alb-net.com
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
> nyc-l-owner at alb-net.com
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: In need of an apartment??? (ms. xa)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:51:58 -0400
>From: "ms. xa" 
>Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
>To: "'Flora Kelmendi'" , "'Albanians in New
> York City Discussion Forum \(New York City, USA\)'"
> , 
>Message-ID: 
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Flora,
>
> 
>
>University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus alternatives 
are
>not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share). On the other 
hand,
>International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or 600 for a hole,
>literally a hole without even a private bathroom or kitchen-just enough
>space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and without Air 
conditioning
>(from what I've seen), and you can hardly even study there. I would 
merely
>suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx, specifically in the 
Riverdale
>Area, where he can find something both affordable and spacious and
>comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can look up some phone numbers of
>Albanians who are in the real estate business in the Bronx.
>
> 
>
>XA
>
> 
>
> _____ 
>
>From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On 
Behalf
>Of Flora Kelmendi
>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
>To: vxharra at hotmail.com
>Cc: nyc-l at alb-net.com
>Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
>
> 
>
>Tung Valon,
>
>I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best
>options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but 
it's
>still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international
>students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them ( i.e. if 
you
>are an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia
>website. 
>
> 
>
>Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and 
Riverside
>Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the campus. 
Friends
>of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this information helps! 
>
> 
>
>Good luck with you search!
>
>Flora
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
>----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra 
>-----
> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
> From: Valon Xharra < 
vxharra at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
>City, USA)" 
>Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment??? 
> To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
>
> === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Hi there,
>I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
>fall and
>was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
>nice
>cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
>but if
>you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really 
>appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
>Thanks
>Valon
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's 
>FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>____________________________________________________
>NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the 
>Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
>To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
>For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l 
>
>----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
> 
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: 
http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/attachments/20050714/ddc07773/attachment-0001.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>NYC-L mailing list
>NYC-L at alb-net.com
>http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>
>
>End of NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 7
>************************************
>
>
____________________________________________________
NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l


		
---------------------------------
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-------------- next part --------------
HTML attachment scrubbed and removed

From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 15 12:44:34 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] new to New York
In-Reply-To: <20050715135139.87639.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050715164434.39528.qmail@web52611.mail.yahoo.com>

Saimir
jo te gjithe antaret e listes jane shqiptare te lindur ne shqiperi/kosove/ballkan.  Ka
pjestare qe jane te lindur ne Amerike dhe nuk kane patur mundesi te mesojne te shkruajne
shqip.  Kurse ne qe kemi avantazhin e dy gjuheve, tolerojme ne menyre qe te perfshihen te
gjithe.  Une shkruaj ne liste edhe ne shqip edhe ne anglisht.  Kjo nuk ka te beje me
amerikanizim/snobizem, une personalisht kurre nuk mund te arrij ate pike sa ta quaj veten
amerikan sepse u linda dhe jetova 13 vjet ne shqiperi :)
Klevis


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 15 19:13:28 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] new to New York
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F62636E6D9432EE143D82FADD00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050715231328.40321.qmail@web52602.mail.yahoo.com>

 hahahahahha Shkelqim Berisha is trying a bit too hard to suck up.  4 years of democracy
and peace?  Can you show me where this is taking place, because all I hear around the
world is bombs/terrorists/more bombs/and even more bombs.  Sounds to me like Bush messed
up pretty bad (for lack of worse words) and we are now seeing the consequences.  GG
shkelqim, come again.


		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 


From saimir_1 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jul 16 07:00:30 2005
From: saimir_1 at yahoo.co.uk (Saimir Celo)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:00:30 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [NYC-L] new to New York
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F23C46EDC352B28AA33FD89ADD00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050716110030.8241.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Teknikisht u pergjigje si nje adoleshente. 
 
Shqipen nga ana tjeter nuk ta shaj dot.


Juliana Agolli <jetkoti at hotmail.com> wrote:

Teknikisht, komenteve si keto te tuat, qe nuk i sherbejne dot njeriu, i duhet futur nje shqelm b****ve dhe nxjerre perjashta me zhurme...(meqe kerkoke komunikim ne shqip). 

ndonje gje per t'shtuar? per shembull, nuk te pelqen shqipja ime, etj...?




>From: Saimir Celo <
>Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York City,USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com>
>To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York City,USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com>
>Subject: Re: [NYC-L] new to New York
>Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:51:39 +0100 (BST)
>
>           === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Per kuriozitet,
>
>pse e merrni mundimin te beheni anetare te listave shqiptare dhe te kerkoni shoqata shqiptare kur nuk jeni ne gjendje te komunikoni ne shqip? Kaq shpej u amerikanizuat?
>
>S.C.
>
>Milena Zilo <mzilo at du.edu> wrote:
>=== NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>I am new to New York from Colorado and was wondering if there are any
>Albanian organizations or if there is a chamber of commerce for
>Albanians that meets on a regular basis.
>
>Thanks,
>Milena
>
>
>nyc-l-request at alb-net.com wrote:
>
>
> >Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
> > nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > nyc-l-request at alb-net.com
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > nyc-l-owner at alb-net.com
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Fwd: In need of an apartment??? (ms. xa)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:51:58 -0400
> >From: "ms. xa"
> >Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
> >To: "'Flora Kelmendi'" , "'Albanians in New
> > York City Discussion Forum \(New York City, USA\)'"
> > ,
> >Message-ID:
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >Flora,
> >
> >
> >
> >University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus alternatives
>are
> >not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share). On the other
>hand,
> >International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or 600 for a hole,
> >literally a hole without even a private bathroom or kitchen-just enough
> >space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and without Air
>conditioning
> >(from what I've seen), and you can hardly even study there. I would
>merely
> >suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx, specifically in the
>Riverdale
> >Area, where he can find something both affordable and spacious and
> >comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can look up some phone numbers of
> >Albanians who are in the real estate business in the Bronx.
> >
> >
> >
> >XA
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On
>Behalf
> >Of Flora Kelmendi
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
> >To: vxharra at hotmail.com
> >Cc: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
> >
> >
> >
> >Tung Valon,
> >
> >I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best
> >options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but
>it's
> >still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international
> >students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them ( i.e. if
>you
> >are an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia
> >website.
> >
> >
> >
> >Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and
>Riverside
> >Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the campus.
>Friends
> >of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this information helps!
> >
> >
> >
> >Good luck with you search!
> >
> >Flora
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra
> >-----
> > Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
> > From: Valon Xharra <
>vxharra at hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
> >City, USA)"
> >Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment???
> > To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >
> > === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
> >
> >Hi there,
> >I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
> >fall and
> >was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
> >nice
> >cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
> >but if
> >you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really
> >appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
> >Thanks
> >Valon
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
> >FREE!
> >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >____________________________________________________
> >NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> >Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> >To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> >For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
> >----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------- next part --------------
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >URL:
>http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/attachments/20050714/ddc07773/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >NYC-L mailing list
> >NYC-L at alb-net.com
> >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
> >
> >End of NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 7
> >************************************
> >
> >
>____________________________________________________
>NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
>Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
>To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
>For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos
>____________________________________________________
>NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
>Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
>To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
>For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>



		
---------------------------------
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From florakelmendi at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 13:39:30 2005
From: florakelmendi at gmail.com (Flora Kelmendi)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:39:30 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-DAV9379874211CEB3B036EF5ADD00@phx.gbl>
References: <a74a9ed20507120936277f41b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY108-DAV9379874211CEB3B036EF5ADD00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <a74a9ed2050718103964a086ef@mail.gmail.com>

XA (!), 

I'm not advocating for Columbia housing, I'm merely speaking from my 
experience with them. I think it's an option worth looking into considering 
that's the first option for most Columbia students. It's not cheap but it is 
reasonable since there are a number of advantages that come with it. 
In any case, Valon, again good luck and hope you find something soon! Let me 
know once you're settled. We can go out for a coffee or something - it's 
always fun to meet fellow Albanians!

 Flora


On 7/14/05, ms. xa <jetkoti at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
>  Flora,
> 
>  University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus alternatives are 
> not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share). On the other hand, 
> International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or 600 for a hole, 
> literally a hole without even a private bathroom or kitchen?just enough 
> space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and without Air conditioning 
> (from what I've seen), and you can hardly even study there. I would merely 
> suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx, specifically in the Riverdale 
> Area, where he can find something both affordable and spacious and 
> comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can look up some phone numbers of 
> Albanians who are in the real estate business in the Bronx.
> 
>  XA
> 
>   ------------------------------
>  
> *From:* nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *Flora Kelmendi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
> *To:* vxharra at hotmail.com
> *Cc:* nyc-l at alb-net.com
> *Subject:* [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
>  
>  Tung Valon,
>  
> I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best 
> options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but it's 
> still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international 
> students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them ( i.e. if you 
> are an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia 
> website. 
>  
>  Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and 
> Riverside Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the 
> campus. Friends of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this 
> information helps! 
>  
>  Good luck with you search!
>  
> Flora
>  
>    
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra <vxharra at hotmail.com>
> -----
> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
> From: Valon Xharra < vxharra at hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
> City, USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com>
> Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment??? 
> To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> 
> === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
> 
> Hi there,
> I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
> fall and
> was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
> nice
> cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
> but if
> you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really 
> appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
> Thanks
> Valon
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's 
> FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the 
> Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> For more information: http://www.alb-netcom/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l 
> <http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l>
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> 
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From shkrelie at sullcrom.com  Mon Jul 18 14:01:16 2005
From: shkrelie at sullcrom.com (Shkreli, Enis)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:01:16 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
Message-ID: <8D2EF96F62F6584CAB2BAECEECBE5D381A5B473B@nycmb03.law.sullcrom.com>

Pershendetje te gjitheve:
 
Une nuk kuptoj perse shumica e personave ne kete forum megjithese jane
shqiptare dhe kane si gjuhe meme shqipen, komunikojne vetem ne gjuhen
anglese!
 
Te fala,
 
Enis Shkreli
 
 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com
[mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On Behalf Of Flora Kelmendi
	Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:40 PM
	To: ms. xa
	Cc: Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York City,
USA)
	Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
	
	

	XA (!), 

	I'm not advocating for Columbia housing, I'm merely speaking
from my experience with them. I think it's an option worth looking into
considering that's the first option for most Columbia students. It's not
cheap but it is reasonable since there are a number of advantages that
come with it. 

	In any case, Valon, again good luck and hope you find something
soon! Let me know once you're settled. We can go out for a coffee or
something - it's always fun to meet fellow Albanians! 

	 

	Flora



	On 7/14/05, ms. xa <jetkoti at hotmail.com> wrote: 

		Flora,

		 

		University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus
alternatives are not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share).
On the other hand, International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or
600 for a hole, literally a hole without even a private bathroom or
kitchen-just enough space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and
without Air conditioning (from what I've seen), and you can hardly even
study there.  I would merely suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx,
specifically in the Riverdale Area, where he can find something both
affordable and spacious and comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can
look up some phone numbers of Albanians who are in the real estate
business in the Bronx. 

		 

		XA

		 

		
  _____  


		From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:
nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com <mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com> ] On Behalf
Of Flora Kelmendi
		Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
		To: vxharra at hotmail.com
		Cc: nyc-l at alb-net.com
		Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???

		 

		Tung Valon,

		I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's
one of the best options around here. The application deadline is
probably long due but it's still worth trying. They usually give housing
priority to international students so emphasise that in your
correspondence with them ( i.e. if you are an international student).
You can find their info on the Columbia website. 

		 

		Another option is the International House located on
123rd st and Riverside Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too
far from the campus. Friends of mine who live there seem to like it.
Hope this information helps! 

		 

		Good luck with you search!

		Flora

		 

		 

		
		
		
		----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra
<vxharra at hotmail.com >
		-----
		   Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
		   From: Valon Xharra < vxharra at hotmail.com
<mailto:vxharra at hotmail.com>  >
		Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum
(New York
		City, USA)" <nyc-l at alb-net.com >
		Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment??? 
		     To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
		
		         === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum === 
		
		Hi there,
		I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia
University this
		fall and
		was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about
finding a
		nice
		cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap
places in NYC 
		but if
		you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I
would really 
		appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you
coffee.
		Thanks
		Valon
		
	
_________________________________________________________________ 
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today - it's 
		FREE!
	
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
		
		____________________________________________________
		NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the 
		Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area. 
		To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
		
		For more information:
http://www.alb-netcom/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
<http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l> 
		
		----- End forwarded message -----
		
		
		  

		

		



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From jeton at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 20 00:37:21 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:37:21 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job
Message-ID: <BAY108-F980ECFA396FBDA650591CB5D70@phx.gbl>

Hey all

i just finished watching the latest installment of P.O.V. on PBS Channel 13 
in New York and it was the long awaited film version of Stacy Sullivan's 
journalistic relationship with Florin Krasniqi, called "The Brooklyn 
Connection". The film takes Ms. Sullivan's barely contained contempt for 
Krasniqi's efforts and adds editorial juxtapostions from the filmmaker. 
Essentially the film comes off as a pro-UN, pro-internationalist 
anti-profile, with a strong sub-focus on the US gun-control angle. Since i 
run the NYC chapter of the Pink Pistols, i might be more sensitive to 
anti-2nd Amendment politicking than Florin is, but I think another angle 
manipulated into the film should concern everyone on this list:

Towards the end of the film, with the filmmaker following assorted KLA arms 
shipment routes into Kosove, they show an excerpt of Florin describing the 
UN's moribund bureaucracy, and how one of it's aims is to keep Kosova's 
economy from moving forward too qucikly, so they sit on the economy to 
thwart any unilateral declaration of independence. Florin goes on to say 
that "if need be, we'll get the UN out of here as well". The film then 
juxtaposes that with a KFOR commander describing the zero-tolerance KFOR has 
for armed activity by "extremists"...

...well the film ends shortly thereafter, and then the filmmaker (not Ms. 
Sullivan, one Ms. Klaartje Quirijns) begins speaking in a talking-head 
format. She goes on to say that she's frequently asked "why did he let u 
film him, why did he tell u all of these secrets" and she offers what 
appears to be her own analysis, i paraphrase because i didnt record the 
program: "I think Florin wants Kosovo to be back on the front burner, to 
bring attention thats been lost with the war in Iraq. As frustration grows 
with their current situation, they appear to be preparing to fight 
NATO"...this assesment most certainly goes beyond what I heard Florin 
Krasniqi say in the film, which focused on thwarting UN obstructionism.

I understand Florin wanting to bring attention back to K, i just wish he had 
been more appreciative of the international and domestic-US agendas of the 
filmmaker and journalist he cooperated with.

The program, "P.O.V. : The Brooklyn Connection" can be researched at 
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thebrooklynconnection/

...it will also rebroadcast locally in NYC on July 25th at 1am 
(sunday-nite/monday morning). people can also offer comments on the pov 
website: http://www.POV.org

spread the word...

Jeton

PS: Isa, pardon the delay, i do owe u an extended response onlist to your 
last long missive. i promise to provide one shortly...




From vxz105 at psu.edu  Wed Jul 20 01:01:26 2005
From: vxz105 at psu.edu (Valbona Zylo)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 01:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] Brooklyn Connection-PBS
Message-ID: <200507200501.BAA24423@webmail5.cac.psu.edu>

Excellent documentary. Florin Krasniqi just showed the world what a brave and
courageous man he is. Hope the documentary makes a difference for the Kosova
cause.

valbona




From ngapeja at rocketmail.com  Wed Jul 20 06:49:26 2005
From: ngapeja at rocketmail.com (Isa Blumi)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F980ECFA396FBDA650591CB5D70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050720104926.41710.qmail@web51705.mail.yahoo.com>


In light of Jeton's report on what is par for the
course in Europe these days...a well-connected insider
tells me there is growing hostility (I stress the
word) in Europe towards Kosova's independence...a
Dutch film-maker's rendition of the Florin Krasniqi
story is not surprising...

Out of curiosity, we have so many young people both in
Kosova and in the diaspora, are any of them studying
or have studied film? While the response to hatchet
jobs are not other hatchet jobs, perhaps the only way
to garner the sympathies of the larger world is
through film. I can think of something like Control
Room and its impact on so many viewers can easily be
reproduced from Kosova's perspective. Open hostility
towards the UN is an excellent topic (and an easy one)
as report after report in the mainstream press about
UN negligence in restraining their "Peace keepers"
from visiting HIV infested bars can nicely fit in with
life outside Prishtina story...and the corruption is
easily documented. 

But perhaps the more compelling story is that of all
of our victims out there. NoT only of the 1998-1999
period but of a lifetime of psychological torment,
economic subordination and political oppression. From
the film-maker's point of view Kosovars are extremely
photogenic and intriguing subjects that would
fascinate US/European audiences. Tying that fact in
with some of the more horrific stories of suffering,
collective and enduring pain would be ve 
--- Jeton Ademaj <jeton at hotmail.com> wrote:

>           === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum
> ===
> 
> Hey all
> 
> i just finished watching the latest installment of
> P.O.V. on PBS Channel 13 
> in New York and it was the long awaited film version
> of Stacy Sullivan's 
> journalistic relationship with Florin Krasniqi,
> called "The Brooklyn 
> Connection". The film takes Ms. Sullivan's barely
> contained contempt for 
> Krasniqi's efforts and adds editorial juxtapostions
> from the filmmaker. 
> Essentially the film comes off as a pro-UN,
> pro-internationalist 
> anti-profile, with a strong sub-focus on the US
> gun-control angle. Since i 
> run the NYC chapter of the Pink Pistols, i might be
> more sensitive to 
> anti-2nd Amendment politicking than Florin is, but I
> think another angle 
> manipulated into the film should concern everyone on
> this list:
> 
> Towards the end of the film, with the filmmaker
> following assorted KLA arms 
> shipment routes into Kosove, they show an excerpt of
> Florin describing the 
> UN's moribund bureaucracy, and how one of it's aims
> is to keep Kosova's 
> economy from moving forward too qucikly, so they sit
> on the economy to 
> thwart any unilateral declaration of independence.
> Florin goes on to say 
> that "if need be, we'll get the UN out of here as
> well". The film then 
> juxtaposes that with a KFOR commander describing the
> zero-tolerance KFOR has 
> for armed activity by "extremists"...
> 
> ...well the film ends shortly thereafter, and then
> the filmmaker (not Ms. 
> Sullivan, one Ms. Klaartje Quirijns) begins speaking
> in a talking-head 
> format. She goes on to say that she's frequently
> asked "why did he let u 
> film him, why did he tell u all of these secrets"
> and she offers what 
> appears to be her own analysis, i paraphrase because
> i didnt record the 
> program: "I think Florin wants Kosovo to be back on
> the front burner, to 
> bring attention thats been lost with the war in
> Iraq. As frustration grows 
> with their current situation, they appear to be
> preparing to fight 
> NATO"...this assesment most certainly goes beyond
> what I heard Florin 
> Krasniqi say in the film, which focused on thwarting
> UN obstructionism.
> 
> I understand Florin wanting to bring attention back
> to K, i just wish he had 
> been more appreciative of the international and
> domestic-US agendas of the 
> filmmaker and journalist he cooperated with.
> 
> The program, "P.O.V. : The Brooklyn Connection" can
> be researched at 
>
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thebrooklynconnection/
> 
> ...it will also rebroadcast locally in NYC on July
> 25th at 1am 
> (sunday-nite/monday morning). people can also offer
> comments on the pov 
> website: http://www.POV.org
> 
> spread the word...
> 
> Jeton
> 
> PS: Isa, pardon the delay, i do owe u an extended
> response onlist to your 
> last long missive. i promise to provide one
> shortly...
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> For more information:
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> 
> 



		
____________________________________________________
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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 


From ngapeja at rocketmail.com  Wed Jul 20 07:02:44 2005
From: ngapeja at rocketmail.com (Isa Blumi)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F980ECFA396FBDA650591CB5D70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050720110244.12401.qmail@web51709.mail.yahoo.com>

sorry for the interruption, cat stepped on the
keyboard, but...such documented stories would do far
more than anything being done on kosova's behalf in
Prishtina (which, aside from Albin Kurti's KAN, is not
much).

I have met several anthropology students over the last
few years and I was getting hopeful that they would
apply their training to do some interesting things
about redirecting the tone surrounding how Albnians in
general are represented in academia, or even better
yet, reveal some of the more important legacies of
long term suppression to fit in the popular
post-colonial genre that has infested academia
today...as of now, we have a Japanese scholar who just
finished a study on Kanun...this constant return to
Albanian exotica keeps Kosova savage, a perfect
condition to justify Belgrade's increasingly
persuasive arguments that only they know how to handle
Kosova. Why could not some of our anthropology
students team up with colleagues, film-maker friends
to do a multi-media study on Kosovars that sheds light
on just how similar our experiences with war,
oppression, state terrorism have been with
others...the 10th anniversary of Srbrenica had
Belgrade on its heals...it still contempteously keeps
the remains of at least 600 men, avoiding the media
specticle and no one in the outside world is raising
an arm in outrage.

Can anyone direct me to a Kosovar making a
documentary-style film on Kosova? At least for a
European/US market?

Respectfully,

Isa




--- Jeton Ademaj <jeton at hotmail.com> wrote:

>           === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum
> ===
> 
> Hey all
> 
> i just finished watching the latest installment of
> P.O.V. on PBS Channel 13 
> in New York and it was the long awaited film version
> of Stacy Sullivan's 
> journalistic relationship with Florin Krasniqi,
> called "The Brooklyn 
> Connection". The film takes Ms. Sullivan's barely
> contained contempt for 
> Krasniqi's efforts and adds editorial juxtapostions
> from the filmmaker. 
> Essentially the film comes off as a pro-UN,
> pro-internationalist 
> anti-profile, with a strong sub-focus on the US
> gun-control angle. Since i 
> run the NYC chapter of the Pink Pistols, i might be
> more sensitive to 
> anti-2nd Amendment politicking than Florin is, but I
> think another angle 
> manipulated into the film should concern everyone on
> this list:
> 
> Towards the end of the film, with the filmmaker
> following assorted KLA arms 
> shipment routes into Kosove, they show an excerpt of
> Florin describing the 
> UN's moribund bureaucracy, and how one of it's aims
> is to keep Kosova's 
> economy from moving forward too qucikly, so they sit
> on the economy to 
> thwart any unilateral declaration of independence.
> Florin goes on to say 
> that "if need be, we'll get the UN out of here as
> well". The film then 
> juxtaposes that with a KFOR commander describing the
> zero-tolerance KFOR has 
> for armed activity by "extremists"...
> 
> ...well the film ends shortly thereafter, and then
> the filmmaker (not Ms. 
> Sullivan, one Ms. Klaartje Quirijns) begins speaking
> in a talking-head 
> format. She goes on to say that she's frequently
> asked "why did he let u 
> film him, why did he tell u all of these secrets"
> and she offers what 
> appears to be her own analysis, i paraphrase because
> i didnt record the 
> program: "I think Florin wants Kosovo to be back on
> the front burner, to 
> bring attention thats been lost with the war in
> Iraq. As frustration grows 
> with their current situation, they appear to be
> preparing to fight 
> NATO"...this assesment most certainly goes beyond
> what I heard Florin 
> Krasniqi say in the film, which focused on thwarting
> UN obstructionism.
> 
> I understand Florin wanting to bring attention back
> to K, i just wish he had 
> been more appreciative of the international and
> domestic-US agendas of the 
> filmmaker and journalist he cooperated with.
> 
> The program, "P.O.V. : The Brooklyn Connection" can
> be researched at 
>
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thebrooklynconnection/
> 
> ...it will also rebroadcast locally in NYC on July
> 25th at 1am 
> (sunday-nite/monday morning). people can also offer
> comments on the pov 
> website: http://www.POV.org
> 
> spread the word...
> 
> Jeton
> 
> PS: Isa, pardon the delay, i do owe u an extended
> response onlist to your 
> last long missive. i promise to provide one
> shortly...
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> For more information:
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From SimonVukel at aol.com  Wed Jul 20 10:44:04 2005
From: SimonVukel at aol.com (SimonVukel at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:44:04 EDT
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job
Message-ID: <1c9.2cf04606.300fbd34@aol.com>

I thought it was one of the worst documentaries I have ever seen,  regardless 
of topic.  It jumped all over the place, and I'm not sure how  someone with 
no knowledge of the kosova war would have known what was going  on.
 
the 60 minutes piece was much much better.
 
I also think this is the worst time for this kind of thing.   There's bombs 
going off in London, we're pushing for the resolution of Kosova's  status as 
soon as possible, and Krasniqi and friends are talking about  terrorists vs 
freedom fighters, and how he was in touch with al qaeda and could  have received 
aid from them! (and he admits others talked him out of it).
 
Kosova will be on the front burner soon, but this is not the way to do  it.  
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From pirrorexhepi at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul 20 15:27:30 2005
From: pirrorexhepi at yahoo.co.uk (Pirro Rexhepi)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:27:30 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: Hear The World News: The Castle Festival
Message-ID: <20050720192730.61725.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

This should be an interesting event...

Note: forwarded message attached.

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with voicemail
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Subject: Hear The World News: The Castle Festival
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:51:06 -0400
Size: 13327
Url: http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/attachments/20050720/8168c33a/attachment.mht 

From Dea2608 at aol.com  Wed Jul 20 18:20:52 2005
From: Dea2608 at aol.com (Dea2608 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:20:52 EDT
Subject: [NYC-L] Brooklyn Connection-PBS
Message-ID: <143.4955991f.30102844@aol.com>

I saw it...and I think that in the present politics was negative for the  
picture of the Albanians
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From jeton at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 21 03:22:14 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:22:14 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] a small-world quickie :)
Message-ID: <BAY108-F8C56E37A086B2CBF99327B5D60@phx.gbl>

and the laffs just keep on keepin on...

so here i am responding to an email from a filmmaker friend who chronicles 
2nd Amendment issues, asking me if i saw the 60 minutes piece with Florin (i 
hadn't, but i just read the transcript from their 7/17 broadcast, same day i 
took some fellow queers shooting) and i mentioned the POV premiere of "The 
Brooklyn Connection". on a lark i looked again and noticed POV's site has a 
link to the film's mainsite which is

http://www.thebrooklynconnection.net

now when i checked their press page, i noticed good ole' NYC-L at the 
bottom! its supposed to be of that Carlyle Group Op-Ed from the NYTimes in 
Feb, but it was actually a notice for some albo singer. however, the 
preceding message is where that op-ed can be found, and of course it was me 
that posted it.

http://www.thebrooklynconnection.net/content.php?section=press#

...yet somehow i'm not entirely glad to be of service, "fishbowl" indeed...i 
just wish Florin had waited until maybe AFTER the midterm elections to try 
to suck up to the Democratic Party.

meh.

J




From jetkoti at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 21 22:12:19 2005
From: jetkoti at hotmail.com (ms. xa)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:12:19 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job QUESTIONS
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F980ECFA396FBDA650591CB5D70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV291FF81268079584DD110ADC90@phx.gbl>

Jeton,

 

 

I have yet to see the film when it gets broadcast again, but I thoroughly
looked at the website and couldn't find answers to my questions. Perhaps you
will be so kind as to venture an answer to them.

 

First, I was wondering HOW did Mr. Krasniqi manage to get licensed to
purchase the arms he did (let alone so smoothly to get them to his
destination)? Parenthetically, there is an interactive thing on the website
that traces how a weapon can make it from Tennessee or Kentucky to Kosova,
but there is no actual attempt to trace the legal procedures Mr. Krasniqi
followed. There is way too much emphasis on the part of the filmmaker on
just how easy it is to do this for sinister reasons, but nothing is really
pronounced or clarified as to how this was actually done. 

 

Second, HOW did Mr. Krasniqi manage to raise $30,000,000, legally, I assume,
and not through any illegal or otherwise covert means? Has this
'fund-raising' been documented in any way? If so, how come it doesn't seem
to have been included in the documentary, not to any detail but just
generally enough so as to sound feasible, as the kind of money that could
have REALISTICALLY been raised by ethnic Albanians themselves (assuming
every single Albanian living in the US, including all well-do Albanian
businessmen, had contributed to some degree). 

 

And maybe lastly, WHERE did Mr. Krasniqi, at the time that he agreed to
becoming the hot subject of a film (for after all, he was absolutely "film
material"-and I am not going to miss it again!)  find guarantee that he
would be all right with the law, both US and international, for having
otherwise engaged in (supported) the killing of many people? I guess I'm
asking how come Mr. Krasniqi has no fear of being singled out as a possible
terrorist (or someone with links to more familiar terrorist organizations)
by the US government, even though the way he 'used' this country was
(supposedly) legal on every count (that the reader/viewer isn't allowed to
learn much about? (By the way, the "expert" links included in the website
that talk about arm acquisition in this country weren't quite helpful in
trying to understand HOW Mr. Krasniqi exploited the law so skillfully.)

 

Indeed what sort of an Albanian "hero" is this Florin Krasniqi. Balkan
history and literature have since taught that a people's hero (e.g.
Skenderbeu) exists to the extent that he kills and doesn't get killed
himself, or only at the end.the hero is someone who knows how to and has the
means (physical, financial, political, etc.) of waging war. A hero is
someone of great personality and terrifying strength, like Achilles, with
"connections" to and favored by the gods, who in turn are amused at the
human tragicomedy as they watch from Mount Olympos the Trojans and the
Acheans tearing each other apart-with their help!  And like Achilles too, a
hero must be weak only at the hill, and that is precisely where he ends up
getting fatally wounded. If Krasniqi is going to be trumpeted a hero, "an
American son of Kosovo," a person who doesn't buy Ms. Klartjee's motivations
and story telling, nor Mr. Krasniqi's account, can only venture a dangerous
guess as to who Krasniqi's god is, the god that helped him set up "elephant
hunting clubs" (as absurd as this would have clearly been to any European
airport check point.coming from Albania.unless, of course, there were orders
from the gods), the god that poured money from the heavens and trained and
supported his successful mission. Perhaps this movie is a cover up for stuff
that readers/viewers like me, and certainly the curious world at large, and
the enemies, needn't know about. 

 

 

Pehraps Mr. Krasniqi didn't have a "double" but a "triple-life," and
"Brooklyn Connection" maybe merely seeks to eliminate possible rumors about
his 'third' one, one funded and supported by the invisible hand of mighty
CIA (and it wouldn't be exactly the first time they did this).

 

Thanks,                       

 

xa

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On Behalf
Of Jeton Ademaj

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:37 AM

To: nyc-l at alb-net.com

Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job

 

          === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===

 

Hey all

 

i just finished watching the latest installment of P.O.V. on PBS Channel 13 

in New York and it was the long awaited film version of Stacy Sullivan's 

journalistic relationship with Florin Krasniqi, called "The Brooklyn 

Connection". The film takes Ms. Sullivan's barely contained contempt for 

Krasniqi's efforts and adds editorial juxtapostions from the filmmaker. 

Essentially the film comes off as a pro-UN, pro-internationalist 

anti-profile, with a strong sub-focus on the US gun-control angle. Since i 

run the NYC chapter of the Pink Pistols, i might be more sensitive to 

anti-2nd Amendment politicking than Florin is, but I think another angle 

manipulated into the film should concern everyone on this list:

 

Towards the end of the film, with the filmmaker following assorted KLA arms 

shipment routes into Kosove, they show an excerpt of Florin describing the 

UN's moribund bureaucracy, and how one of it's aims is to keep Kosova's 

economy from moving forward too qucikly, so they sit on the economy to 

thwart any unilateral declaration of independence. Florin goes on to say 

that "if need be, we'll get the UN out of here as well". The film then 

juxtaposes that with a KFOR commander describing the zero-tolerance KFOR has


for armed activity by "extremists"...

 

..well the film ends shortly thereafter, and then the filmmaker (not Ms. 

Sullivan, one Ms. Klaartje Quirijns) begins speaking in a talking-head 

format. She goes on to say that she's frequently asked "why did he let u 

film him, why did he tell u all of these secrets" and she offers what 

appears to be her own analysis, i paraphrase because i didnt record the 

program: "I think Florin wants Kosovo to be back on the front burner, to 

bring attention thats been lost with the war in Iraq. As frustration grows 

with their current situation, they appear to be preparing to fight 

NATO"...this assesment most certainly goes beyond what I heard Florin 

Krasniqi say in the film, which focused on thwarting UN obstructionism.

 

I understand Florin wanting to bring attention back to K, i just wish he had


been more appreciative of the international and domestic-US agendas of the 

filmmaker and journalist he cooperated with.

 

The program, "P.O.V. : The Brooklyn Connection" can be researched at 

http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thebrooklynconnection/

 

..it will also rebroadcast locally in NYC on July 25th at 1am 

(sunday-nite/monday morning). people can also offer comments on the pov 

website: http://www.POV.org

 

spread the word...

 

Jeton

 

PS: Isa, pardon the delay, i do owe u an extended response onlist to your 

last long missive. i promise to provide one shortly...

 

 

____________________________________________________

NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the

Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.

To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com

For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l

 

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From jeton at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 21 23:15:48 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:15:48 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Redski Hazy
Message-ID: <BAY108-F36D083B58DB61DE574CE6B5C90@phx.gbl>

"Ms. Xa" :

I appreciate the art with which you postulate Florin Krasniqi as a CIA 
sockpuppet, but there is substantial evidence that Mr. Krasniqi raised this 
money from Albanians in the USA. As I stated initially, the current film is 
the outgrowth of the journalistic relationship between former Newsweek 
reporter Stacy Sullivan and Florin, which first manifested in a NYTimes 
magazine coverstory from 11/98, also titled "The Brooklyn Connection". The 
article chronicled Florin's fundraising efforts along with some of those of 
the wider Albanian diaspora.

As for the legality of Florin's actions, I get the impression Florin's 
transactions were entirely legal; if you think otherwise, state your case. 
Unless your case is simply that this is all CIA pixie-dust, if so I can 
recommend a haberdasher of fine foils, and can make you a most fetching 
unisex pork-pie in Reynolds Heavy Duty Foil, sized to your specification of 
course.

The United States has a profound history of freedom, at least for it's 
citizens --the criteria for which has expanded over the years. One of the 
most profound is the freedom of self-defense, with commensurate means. Its 
called the right to keep and bear arms, and it is enshrined the Second 
Amendment. Florin would not have a problem learning the legal status of 
firearms purchase if he or anyone made a determined effort to learn...this 
is not some big secret. I get the sense that you're more accustomed to 
government that keeps the legal procedures of armed self-defense some sort 
of arcane secret-- where would that be exactly, "Ms. Xa"?

Your ruminations of the nature of heroism notwithstanding, the word 'hero' 
is certainly in the vernacular, and has transcended any mythopoetic 
formality. By many definitions, Florin's actions are entirely heroic, in the 
sense that an everyday man got involved in the struggle for freedom from a 
monstrous oppressor that his relatives lived for, and made a great success 
of it. The impression is clear you feel Florin's story is a mirage and you 
know the real one. The problem is you are on a list with many people who 
actually lived this reality, and if I were you I wouldn't expect to be 
entertained for long. If you actually have some sort of evidence or even 
reasonable basis to back your stated suspicions, offer them.

Simply hissing accusations in an ambigous semantic fog will get you flamed, 
otherwise :)

Jeton




From jetkoti at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 22 01:58:25 2005
From: jetkoti at hotmail.com (ms. xa)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:58:25 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] The Brooklyn Connection
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F36D083B58DB61DE574CE6B5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV62B9124A18CFADA0F70BEADC90@phx.gbl>

Jeton,

 

I don't know how carefully and impartially you tried to read me, because it
seems to me that my three questions expressed reasonable doubts. But since I
don't have any information I turned to you. You say there is "substantial
evidence", but you yourself don't give any.  I suppose I'd have to do
further research if indeed there is any to be found. What you say isn't very
helpful in the way of informing my suspicions. You 'get the impression'
Krasniqi's actions were legal, that tells me that, like me, you don't know.
(Can you at least direct me?) 

 

Jeton, I value the time you took to respond to me, but your third paragraph
is a total waste of energy. You are merely reiterating what has been overly
stated on the website itself in writing and in the interview with the
director: that it's the US's wonderful laws that made this possible, rather
than any possible covert activities or whatever; which suggests that anyone
could have done it. You must be kidding me, if I am to think that either no
one before Krasniqi was smart enough to think of exploiting these laws to
solve problems of a similar nature around the world, or Krasniqi was a
goddamn genius who only needed a credit card, citizenship, and a clean
record, or we just know nothing at all of other similar legal exploits. Give
me a break!

 

I take it my questions didn't make much sense to you, if you get the sense
that I'm merely making an accusation. The accusation is or isn't there to
the extent that my questions are seen as appropriate. You don't, perhaps
somebody else might.

 

If I knew the truth I suppose I'd have just come out with it. As it is, I am
only voicing my suspicions, and asking for clarifications, because I'm not
persuaded, I don't see the entire story, no matter how touching and exotic
it is. If any people on this list have lived the reality of the war in
Kosove and even fought there with the arms that Krasniqi smuggled through
Albania, then maybe they should speak out and I will listen, if they know
something to say. I don't know what you mean with: 

 

The problem is you are on a list with many people who 

actually lived this reality, and if I were you I wouldn't expect to be 

entertained for long.

 

What makes you think that I'm being entertained? Should I start feel
threatened instead of curious? 

 

What I asked (of anyone who may know) was more information so that I could
correct, clarify, remove, eradicate or confirm my suspicions. If you or
others suggest that I myself bring evidence for my suspicions or otherwise
shut up, then I think my suspicions still stand, or stand even more.

 

As long as my questions sound reasonable to someone somewhere.

 

 

To be continued, of course.

 

xa

 

P.S. If a film maker takes the trouble to SHOW me where arms get produced,
the stores/shows where you can buy them, how one courageous and "charming"
young man did it-was able to fund and basically win the war in his native
country; then, it stands to reason to wonder about the questions that
DIRECTLY underlie what this filmmaker shows me, namely HOW did he do it?
What were the steps? Give me an interactive outline of the legal procedures,
of the laws to bear & purchase & legally ship arms themselves, starting with
the 2 Amendment, if you will, and guide me through the process, show me how
this could have been done by anyone. 

 

P.S.2. America, this country, is not a place of heroes. Heroism in America
is impossible. Both capitalism and individual heroism are impossible. The
principles, the foundations on which this country is built and its worship
of the dollar make heroism impossible. A World-dominating power can no
longer breed heroes, only criminals and anti-heroes (e.g. bin laden, whom it
also 'fed'). And a hero is precisely not an 'everyday' person; a hero lives
in myth, song and poetry. I sometimes even imagine that if bin Laden never
gets caught, as he should (if the US is going to have to learn anything by
being humbled), he will gain mythical status and will most definitely emerge
as a hero in the Arab world (he probably already is to his supporters). If
and when that happens, hundreds of years from now perhaps, the Arab world
will sing songs and write poetry about him, praising him for courage and
heroism.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On Behalf
Of Jeton Ademaj
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:16 PM
To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
Subject: [NYC-L] Redski Hazy

 

          === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===

 

"Ms. Xa" :

 

I appreciate the art with which you postulate Florin Krasniqi as a CIA 

sockpuppet, but there is substantial evidence that Mr. Krasniqi raised this 

money from Albanians in the USA. As I stated initially, the current film is 

the outgrowth of the journalistic relationship between former Newsweek 

reporter Stacy Sullivan and Florin, which first manifested in a NYTimes 

magazine coverstory from 11/98, also titled "The Brooklyn Connection". The 

article chronicled Florin's fundraising efforts along with some of those of 

the wider Albanian diaspora.

 

As for the legality of Florin's actions, I get the impression Florin's 

transactions were entirely legal; if you think otherwise, state your case. 

Unless your case is simply that this is all CIA pixie-dust, if so I can 

recommend a haberdasher of fine foils, and can make you a most fetching 

unisex pork-pie in Reynolds Heavy Duty Foil, sized to your specification of 

course.

 

The United States has a profound history of freedom, at least for it's 

citizens --the criteria for which has expanded over the years. One of the 

most profound is the freedom of self-defense, with commensurate means. Its 

called the right to keep and bear arms, and it is enshrined the Second 

Amendment. Florin would not have a problem learning the legal status of 

firearms purchase if he or anyone made a determined effort to learn...this 

is not some big secret. I get the sense that you're more accustomed to 

government that keeps the legal procedures of armed self-defense some sort 

of arcane secret-- where would that be exactly, "Ms. Xa"?

 

Your ruminations of the nature of heroism notwithstanding, the word 'hero' 

is certainly in the vernacular, and has transcended any mythopoetic 

formality. By many definitions, Florin's actions are entirely heroic, in the


sense that an everyday man got involved in the struggle for freedom from a 

monstrous oppressor that his relatives lived for, and made a great success 

of it. The impression is clear you feel Florin's story is a mirage and you 

know the real one. The problem is you are on a list with many people who 

actually lived this reality, and if I were you I wouldn't expect to be 

entertained for long. If you actually have some sort of evidence or even 

reasonable basis to back your stated suspicions, offer them.

 

Simply hissing accusations in an ambigous semantic fog will get you flamed, 

otherwise :)

 

Jeton

 

 

____________________________________________________

NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the

Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.

To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com

For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l

 

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From jeton at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 22 13:06:09 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:06:09 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] .
Message-ID: <BAY108-F285A6C40F6B531C65C86ECB5C90@phx.gbl>

Shenanigans!

y'know, despite the jarring cyborg-stutter of the 'threatening' comment (a 
creative touch!), you actually had me going there for a sec. but u hadda 
include that last ps.2 diatribe, and the camel's back broke. troll, goblin, 
stalinist...exactly what sort of net-creature are you supposed to be, my 
little socialist c3po? u never answered the query regarding your country of 
origin i see...

"for the record": i'm no lawyer, and was not a participant in Mr. Krasniqi's 
actions. you should speak with a lawyer or an appropriate prosecutor if u 
wish to allege that Mr. Krasniqi commited some crime. More details about 
Florin's purchases can be found in the 7/17 60 minutes profile, and besides 
the NYTimes magazine article by Sullivan in 98, I recall our hardworking 
community holding multiple fundraisers. i also recall the tactic of 
pro-belgrade activists who claimed the albanian refugees were all actors 
paid by NATO a/o the CIA. Since i also recall that the large frontpage photo 
of the NYTimes on 4/6/99 consisted entirely of the better part of my 
father's extended family, and later, my grandmother's sobbing description of 
a serbian soldier breaking her hand while tossing her from her land, u 
should not expect me to treat your grad-student-apparatchik fulminations 
with any respect. u clearly have your own anti-American, anti-capitalist and 
presumably anti-Albanian agenda at work here, so unless you can put 
something up FOR REAL u should go find another forum to troll in. i'm not 
here to research your InterNational Answer or Worker's World Daily article 
for you.

/flush/

.

>>>>>>>>
xa



P.S. If a film maker takes the trouble to SHOW me where arms get produced,
the stores/shows where you can buy them, how one courageous and "charming"
young man did it-was able to fund and basically win the war in his native
country; then, it stands to reason to wonder about the questions that
DIRECTLY underlie what this filmmaker shows me, namely HOW did he do it?
What were the steps? Give me an interactive outline of the legal procedures,
of the laws to bear & purchase & legally ship arms themselves, starting with
the 2 Amendment, if you will, and guide me through the process, show me how
this could have been done by anyone.



P.S.2. America, this country, is not a place of heroes. Heroism in America
is impossible. Both capitalism and individual heroism are impossible. The
principles, the foundations on which this country is built and its worship
of the dollar make heroism impossible. A World-dominating power can no
longer breed heroes, only criminals and anti-heroes (e.g. bin laden, whom it
also 'fed'). And a hero is precisely not an 'everyday' person; a hero lives
in myth, song and poetry. I sometimes even imagine that if bin Laden never
gets caught, as he should (if the US is going to have to learn anything by
being humbled), he will gain mythical status and will most definitely emerge
as a hero in the Arab world (he probably already is to his supporters). If
and when that happens, hundreds of years from now perhaps, the Arab world
will sing songs and write poetry about him, praising him for courage and
heroism.




From Laberia at aol.com  Fri Jul 22 16:47:48 2005
From: Laberia at aol.com (Laberia at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:47:48 EDT
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job QUESTIONS
Message-ID: <fb.7593f606.3012b574@aol.com>

It is very difficult to believe that Krasniqi raised $30 million  because  it 
would have been impossible to do this with Albanian  Americans.  In fact, 
it's highly doubtful that the TOTAL amount ever raised  from Albanian Americans 
for Kosova comes anywhere near $30 million, and it would  be surprising to 
learn that it even tops $10 million.   So, right  there this story has a 
deficiency.   As for any critique of the  story, it should be recognized that this 
documentary was made with the  full cooperation of Krasniqi. Last, do not 
overestimate the U.S. government  and CIA's role in this affair.  To do so is an 
exercise in romanticism at  best.   The US government didn't have any idea of who 
UCK was until  the war was well under way.  When Richard Hobrooke met with 
Albanian  Americans in 1998, he was desperate to find UCK leaders.  What he didn't 
 know is that key UCK supporters in the U.S. were seated at the table with  
him.   As for Krasniqi, he  was never a part of larger efforts to  engage the 
US in military intervention.  While he deserves  praise for his efforts, he was 
just one small piece of the larger  puzzle of how and why Kosova is no longer 
under Serb domination.   
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From Laberia at aol.com  Fri Jul 22 16:52:26 2005
From: Laberia at aol.com (Laberia at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:52:26 EDT
Subject: [NYC-L] The Brooklyn Connection
Message-ID: <6a.59e6bf8b.3012b68a@aol.com>

As for legality, at the time Krasniqi was shipping arms to Kosova, there  
were no sanctions and it was not illegal to ship armaments to Kosova.  If  they 
were legally purchase in the U.S. they could be shipped almost  anywhere.  
Later, and after 1999, certain elements of the former UCK were  designated outlaw 
satus, and this made arm shipments to them a  federal  crime in the U.S.   But 
it should be stressed that this was well after  the time Krasniqi was 
shipping weapons to Kosova. 
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From jeton at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 22 19:02:22 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:02:22 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Commie BS-week on NYC-L?
Message-ID: <BAY108-F2AE803B2BEB00D1E5E0BEB5C90@phx.gbl>

aiiiieeee!

can people PLEASE get in the habit of SUBSTANTIATING their bullshit?

laberia, what *evidence* do u offer to question or refute Krasniqi's claim 
that he raised $30 million?
i would take on your other claims but your semantics are confused...when u 
say "OVERestimate the US Govt/CIA" did you mean to say "UNDERestimate"?

it's bad enuff confronting unsubstantiated hypothesis and propaganda, but 
it's downright repellant to be induced to offer translation services to the 
bullshit artists one is forced to confront! get yer grammar straight if you 
want to be indulged...

aight, fessup! who unlocked the loony bin? Isa, is this your doing :) ?




From ngapeja at rocketmail.com  Sat Jul 23 09:25:54 2005
From: ngapeja at rocketmail.com (Isa Blumi)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] Commie BS-week on NYC-L?
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F2AE803B2BEB00D1E5E0BEB5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050723132555.5383.qmail@web51709.mail.yahoo.com>

Jeton, being a product of the Reagen era (was myself
released from an institution) I take no responsibility



--- Jeton Ademaj <jeton at hotmail.com> wrote:

>           === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum
> ===
> 
> aiiiieeee!
> 
> can people PLEASE get in the habit of SUBSTANTIATING
> their bullshit?
> 
> laberia, what *evidence* do u offer to question or
> refute Krasniqi's claim 
> that he raised $30 million?
> i would take on your other claims but your semantics
> are confused...when u 
> say "OVERestimate the US Govt/CIA" did you mean to
> say "UNDERestimate"?
> 
> it's bad enuff confronting unsubstantiated
> hypothesis and propaganda, but 
> it's downright repellant to be induced to offer
> translation services to the 
> bullshit artists one is forced to confront! get yer
> grammar straight if you 
> want to be indulged...
> 
> aight, fessup! who unlocked the loony bin? Isa, is
> this your doing :) ?
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> For more information:
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From Laberia at aol.com  Sat Jul 23 17:57:54 2005
From: Laberia at aol.com (Laberia at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 17:57:54 EDT
Subject: [NYC-L] Commie BS-week on NYC-L?
Message-ID: <201.635a650.30141762@aol.com>

Reliable sources.   Besides, stop day dreaming and just do the  math.
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From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 23 18:27:57 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 15:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] Commie BS-week on NYC-L?
In-Reply-To: <201.635a650.30141762@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20050723222757.87242.qmail@web52605.mail.yahoo.com>

Pune te mbare duke bere sherr ne Anglisht te nderuar bashkatdhetare!  Si gjithmone
shqiptaret jane gati per sherr/argumenta te kota dhe snobizm ekstrem.  Po do ziheni,
zihuni ne shqip te pakten se late nam.  Ai Florini qe zini ne goje ju te pakten pati
kurajon te beje dicka per atdheun ashtu sic e mendonte ai me mire.  Po ju c'fare keni
bere?  Asgje pervec llafeve ne internet.  Eshte shume e lehte te perpiqesh te
diskretitosh punen e te tjereve.  Por a e pate Florinin ju, tju fliste shqiptareve te
tjere anglisht gjate emisionit?  Jo, ju fliste vetem shqip.
Turp dhe faqe e zeze per budalliqet qe flisni ju ktu.
Klevi



		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 


From jeton at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 23 23:41:45 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 23:41:45 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] bukshot
Message-ID: <BAY108-F302015D2D688BE007A8A5CB5CB0@phx.gbl>

Isa: just kidding, i dont blame you *in this case* for these people's 
logical failures...

XA: my apologies, i took the dangerous ignorance of your comments to be some 
sort of stalinist ruse, partly because i noticed your first post on nyc-l 
was on 9/13/01. i usually hear insinuations like yours from serb and greek 
nationalists and socialist activists, and had no idea yer just some 
albo-commie-gothchik who posts exceedingly bad poetry to Alb-CLub. I mistook 
your pretensiousness for malevolance... but u should come to an argument 
prepared to argue coherently. Your questions were illthought and poorly 
veiled attempts to enlist me in projecting your thesis, which i consider to 
be paranoid and erroneous. Do your own work and come back with the fruit of 
it.

Lab: Same for you. YOU are offering the equation that "Florin Krasniqi = CIA 
front", the onus is on you to convince us. YOU do_the_math, and *show all 
work*. Merely asserting the big bad CIA is the true force behind something 
won't get you very far outside the local Red Balloons meeting or maybe 
smoking up with the Ras Tafaris at a reggae concert... both you and 
Xhulliana need to understand that your assertions imply that numerous 
Albanian-Americans' experiences holding fundraisers and giving away 
hard-earned cash never happened. Such assertions must earn some shred of 
credibility through argument and evidence, merely claiming that hostility 
towards you somehow validates your argument is delusional and invites 
additional scorn.

Beavis The Beast, Euro-D3vil boy: in a week that offered silliness onlist 
not seen in years, your last post was the emptiest of all. Given that you 
had nothing to share, I thank you for sharing :)

a full week by nyc-l standards, there was even a moment there when i thought 
someone would actually put something new on the table...still waiting...

reminder: here in nyc, PBS will again air  "POV: The Brooklyn Connection" on 
channel 13 at 1am sunday nite-monday morning. maybe that will advance some 
discussion.

J




From jetkoti at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 24 13:57:37 2005
From: jetkoti at hotmail.com (ms. xa)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:57:37 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] bukshot
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F302015D2D688BE007A8A5CB5CB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV166F5EAB383361696DC37FADCB0@phx.gbl>

Ademaj 

 

This is not the first time I encounter bullies like you...bullshit their way
through...just because they can--it's a free forum, after all.

 

If you think that expressing as much rage as you do can make you any more
right, then of course you're right because you're full of rage and that can
also be mistaken for righteous indignation.  

 

The fact that it enrages you so much and makes you spit so much venom is
understandable to some degree: you were directly, personally affected by the
war. 

 

So affected and touched are you by the Albanian cause in this war that
apparently you feel that anyone who disagrees with you is an
"albo-commie-gothchik who posts exceedingly bad poetry to Alb-Club" or any
other names you called me me. Name-calling is where machos rely for
strength; I take it, you didn't have enough balls to go fight the war
yourself?! So now you have to defend the victory by bringing in
irrelevancies to put down a girl. Impressive! Keep researching alb-club,
this way you'll have more to say about me that's supposed to make me feel
bad, since, after all, you have nothing more substantial to give in the way
of thoughtful rebuttals [to my original doubts/insinuations] or comments to
make. I suspect that's because you cannot think for yourself....

 

If you have aught to say, SAY IT, don't just give yourself the momentary
satisfaction of calling me names, because, when I and others read them, it's
YOU who sounds pathetic and kind of hopeless. At such instances, anyone can
tell that you feel so threatened in your identity that you feel you must
defend yourself against "slanderers" like me and others who dare to be
extremely dubious of things that to you are absolutely true. 

 

Cursing people because they refuse dogmatically to believe what they're
being told to believe (through movies like TBC) is YOUR failure to
understand that I am allowed to think out loud and inquire for myself even
if it offends your nationalist sensibilities. 

 

Here's some candy for you, and I'm sure there's more to come!

 

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/kosovo1/ksv17.htm

 

 http://www.srpska-mreza.com/sirius/KLA-Drugs.html

 

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=
<http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=293462
395&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1&t=1>
&Board=news_news&Number=293462395&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1&t=1 

 

 

Now Fuck Off! And don't mention my name again!

 

 

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From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 24 15:24:06 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:24:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] bukshot
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-DAV166F5EAB383361696DC37FADCB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050724192406.18349.qmail@web52607.mail.yahoo.com>

Kush e administron kete liste duhet te zhduki ca nga kta ekstremistet qe vetem dijne te
zihen ne Anglisht.  Shqiptare-wannabes.


		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 


From jeton at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 24 15:40:29 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 15:40:29 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] XXXA
Message-ID: <BAY108-F167D04DE2FA0393CAA7B88B5CB0@phx.gbl>

hey dont let's quibble about yer deeply sucky poesy, i have the right to 
expectorate your typographic swill out of my memory!

i admit your true nature/origin remains a mystery, but that you're a commie 
bullshit artist is certain. You have shifted from claiming that Florin was a 
CIA puppet to simply reiterating generic Serbian propaganda about the KLA as 
a whole. Fine, I get it, you're a "plant" doing yer little "planting" thing.

ho-hum...that there are Albanians involved in organized crime is beyond 
doubt, that some Albanian criminals contributed money to the KLA is widely 
believed, and some members of the KLA may well have commited war crimes. 
These assertions have all been 'in play' for years...as has the Serbian 
and/or Stalinist tactic of tarring the whole KLA with the actions of a few. 
That tactic has NOT worked, and it's always because little commie-robots 
like yourself fail to provide any *evidence*. You fail every time...

Ahhhh, Juliana, Xhuliana, Giuliana...what happened to make you such a 
dingbat? The "CIA/KLA" links you provided offered nothing new, just unnamed 
"sources" claiming an operational connection *during the NATO bombing*. You 
could have spared us all the run around about "dialogue" and posted those 
links along with your supplemental theories (eg: "the CIA armed them too!") 
from the get-go, instead you initiated this mindlessly coy and tiresome 
trolling effort.

Before you go back to your little red bunker, would you be so kind as to 
post some poetry here on NYC-L for us? "Rose are red, violets are blue, i 
spreadlegs for Slobo, and i look like him, too!"

HAR HAR HAR DEE HAR HAR!

let this be a lesson to people: beware of renewing interactions with 
something you chose to flush away already!

J




From natyram at aol.com  Mon Jul 18 15:18:54 2005
From: natyram at aol.com (natyram at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:18:54 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] New to New York
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1121576412.17100.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
References: <mailman.5.1121576412.17100.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <8C759E4AC0725CF-EA0-2AAAA@FWM-D42.sysops.aol.com>

Welcome to NYC Milena ,
 
Even though there is a high percentage of Albanians living  in NYC there is no sense off sociability among our  fellow Albanians .But  you have   probably figured by now; you don't want to meet people like S.C who  instead of welcoming you ,has attacked you in his email for  no reason .
Girlfriend ,you will love the city especially if you're a young professional ,great opportunities to succeed and chance to ameliorate in every sense.  
 
Best
Natyra
To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
Sent: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:00:12 -0400
Subject: NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 10


Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
    nyc-l at alb-net.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nyc-l-request at alb-net.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nyc-l-owner at alb-net.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: new to New York (Saimir Celo)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:00:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Saimir Celo <saimir_1 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [NYC-L] new to New York
To: Juliana Agolli <jetkoti at hotmail.com>, nyc-l at alb-net.com
Message-ID: <20050716110030.8241.qmail at web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Teknikisht u pergjigje si nje adoleshente. 
 
Shqipen nga ana tjeter nuk ta shaj dot.


Juliana Agolli <jetkoti at hotmail.com> wrote:

Teknikisht, komenteve si keto te tuat, qe nuk i sherbejne dot njeriu, i duhet 
futur nje shqelm b****ve dhe nxjerre perjashta me zhurme...(meqe kerkoke 
komunikim ne shqip). 

ndonje gje per t'shtuar? per shembull, nuk te pelqen shqipja ime, etj...?




>From: Saimir Celo <
>Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York City,USA)" 
<nyc-l at alb-net.com>
>To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York City,USA)" 
<nyc-l at alb-net.com>
>Subject: Re: [NYC-L] new to New York
>Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:51:39 +0100 (BST)
>
>           === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Per kuriozitet,
>
>pse e merrni mundimin te beheni anetare te listave shqiptare dhe te kerkoni 
shoqata shqiptare kur nuk jeni ne gjendje te komunikoni ne shqip? Kaq shpej u 
amerikanizuat?
>
>S.C.
>
>Milena Zilo <mzilo at du.edu> wrote:
>=== NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>I am new to New York from Colorado and was wondering if there are any
>Albanian organizations or if there is a chamber of commerce for
>Albanians that meets on a regular basis.
>
>Thanks,
>Milena
>
>
>nyc-l-request at alb-net.com wrote:
>
>
> >Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
> > nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > nyc-l-request at alb-net.com
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > nyc-l-owner at alb-net.com
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Fwd: In need of an apartment??? (ms. xa)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:51:58 -0400
> >From: "ms. xa"
> >Subject: Re: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
> >To: "'Flora Kelmendi'" , "'Albanians in New
> > York City Discussion Forum \(New York City, USA\)'"
> > ,
> >Message-ID:
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >Flora,
> >
> >> >
> >University housing is NEVER cheap. Even their off-campus alternatives
>are
> >not cheap (unless you can afford to pay 800+ to share). On the other
>hand,
> >International House at Columbia sucks! You pay 500 or 600 for a hole,
> >literally a hole without even a private bathroom or kitchen-just enough
> >space for a bed. Those rooms are uninhabitable and without Air
>conditioning
> >(from what I've seen), and you can hardly even study there. I would
>merely
> >suggest Valon to find housing in the Bronx, specifically in the
>Riverdale
> >Area, where he can find something both affordable and spacious and
> >comfortable. If Valon is interested, I can look up some phone numbers of
> >Albanians who are in the real estate business in the Bronx.
> >
> >
> >
> >XA
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com [mailto:nyc-l-bounces at alb-net.com] On
>Behalf
> >Of Flora Kelmendi
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:36 PM
> >To: vxharra at hotmail.com
> >Cc: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >Subject: [NYC-L] Fwd: In need of an apartment???
> >
> >
> >
> >Tung Valon,
> >
> >I would suggest contacting Columbia housing as that's one of the best
> >options around here. The application deadline is probably long due but
>it's
> >still worth trying. They usually give housing priority to international
> >students so emphasise that in your correspondence with them ( i.e. if
>you
> >are an international student). You can find their info on the Columbia
> >website.
> >
> >
> >> >Another option is the International House located on 123rd st and
>Riverside
> >Drive. The rent is reasonable and it's not too far from the campus.
>Friends
> >of mine who live there seem to like it. Hope this information helps!
> >
> >
> >
> >Good luck with you search!
> >
> >Flora
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Forwarded message from Valon Xharra
> >-----
> > Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:37:58 +0000
> > From: Valon Xharra <
>vxharra at hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: "Albanians in New York City Discussion Forum (New York
> >City, USA)"
> >Subject: [NYC-L] In need of an apartment???
> > To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> >
> > === NYC-L: New York City Discussion Forum ===
> >
> >Hi there,
> >I will be starting my graduate degree at Columbia University this
> >fall and
> >was wondering if any of you would have suggestions about finding a
> >nice
> >cheap flat in NYC. I know there aren't any nice cheap places in NYC
> >but if
> >you know someone who rents places or needs a roomate I would really
> >appreciate it. And if you are in NY I will buy you coffee.
> >Thanks
> >Valon
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
> >FREE!
> >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >____________________________________________________
> >NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
> >Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
> >To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
> >For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
> >----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >NYC-L mailing list
> >NYC-L at alb-net.com
> >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
> >
> >
> >End of NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 7
> >************************************
> >
> >
>____________________________________________________
>NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
>Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
>To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
>For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with 
Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos
>____________________________________________________
>NYC-L: A discussion and information list of the
>Albanian community in the New York City Metro Area.
>To post to the list: NYC-L at alb-net.com
>For more information: http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>



        
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From promovuesi at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 28 21:22:55 2005
From: promovuesi at hotmail.com (Promo Promovuesi)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:22:55 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] PBS KLA Hatchet Job QUESTIONS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6935.1121998354.18580.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <BAY110-F2230BE4DAB86949E149AACDCCE0@phx.gbl>



>From: "ms. xa" <jetkoti at hotmail.com>


>First, I was wondering HOW did Mr. Krasniqi manage to get licensed to
>purchase the arms he did (let alone so smoothly to get them to his
>destination)?
--Apparently, either Ms. XA doesn't live in the US (but surprisingly enough, 
we all seem to be suckers for English and not our native Albanian) or she 
has no clue what goes on outside of her dorm room. For your info, any US 
citizen can easily get a license to own a gun, provided he/she has no prior 
criminal record.

>There is way too much emphasis on the part of the filmmaker on
>just how easy it is to do this for sinister reasons, but nothing is really
>pronounced or clarified as to how this was actually done.
--Watchin the documentary certainly helps to answer most of your questions. 
Or, if you're so interested about this process, maybe reading the book of 
Mrs. Sullivan would be a good idea.
>
>
>Second, HOW did Mr. Krasniqi manage to raise $30,000,000, legally, I 
>assume,
>and not through any illegal or otherwise covert means? Has this
>'fund-raising' been documented in any way? If so, how come it doesn't seem
>to have been included in the documentary, not to any detail but just
>generally enough so as to sound feasible, as the kind of money that could
>have REALISTICALLY been raised by ethnic Albanians themselves (assuming
>every single Albanian living in the US, including all well-do Albanian
>businessmen, had contributed to some degree).
--I have some doubts myself about the actual sum, but it doesn't really 
surprise me. Having lived through those times and having contributed to that 
fund ("Vendlindja therret"), it could be possible that $30 million was 
raised. BUT, referring to my reply (reasons why you're asking these 
questions): ANYONE can raise funds in the good ol' US of A. Gov't 
authorities will not interfere if you have a legit reason (uhm... help the 
poor in Kosova maybe?) and as long as you're paying taxes to Uncle Sam (or 
you set up a non-profit organization and get a non-profit status).
>
>
>And maybe lastly, WHERE did Mr. Krasniqi, at the time that he agreed to
>becoming the hot subject of a film (for after all, he was absolutely "film
>material"-and I am not going to miss it again!)  find guarantee that he
>would be all right with the law, both US and international, for having
>otherwise engaged in (supported) the killing of many people? I guess I'm
>asking how come Mr. Krasniqi has no fear of being singled out as a possible
>terrorist (or someone with links to more familiar terrorist organizations)
>by the US government, even though the way he 'used' this country was
>(supposedly) legal on every count (that the reader/viewer isn't allowed to
>learn much about? (By the way, the "expert" links included in the website
>that talk about arm acquisition in this country weren't quite helpful in
>trying to understand HOW Mr. Krasniqi exploited the law so skillfully.)
--OK, seriously, I'm baffled why you're so curious how he did it and all 
details how one can do it again. Are you trying to recreate what Mr. 
Krasniqi did or what?

And by the way, no, we can't tell you those ways. Patriot Act put a stop to 
that :)

>Indeed what sort of an Albanian "hero" is this Florin Krasniqi. Balkan
>history and literature have since taught that a people's hero (e.g.
>Skenderbeu) exists to the extent that he kills and doesn't get killed
>himself, or only at the end.the hero is someone who knows how to and has 
>the
>means (physical, financial, political, etc.) of waging war. A hero is
>someone of great personality and terrifying strength, like Achilles, with
>"connections" to and favored by the gods, who in turn are amused at the
>human tragicomedy as they watch from Mount Olympos the Trojans and the
>Acheans tearing each other apart-with their help!  And like Achilles too, a
>hero must be weak only at the hill, and that is precisely where he ends up
>getting fatally wounded.
--Where do you get these defitions of a hero?! Since one is someone 
considered a hero only when he/she kills?! Do you think that those 
firefighters who gave their lives saving people from the burning Twin Towers 
on 9/11 are considered by everyone as heroes because they killed or because 
they possesed super human physicall strengths?

Get your facts straight and then come and BS here. I'm sorry about my 
language but I am not fond at all of people who argue just for the sake of 
arguing. The worst are those cling on and continue to argue desperately even 
though they know deep inside that they have nothing to argue about.

>If Krasniqi is going to be trumpeted a hero, "an
>American son of Kosovo," a person who doesn't buy Ms. Klartjee's 
>motivations
>and story telling, nor Mr. Krasniqi's account, can only venture a dangerous
>guess as to who Krasniqi's god is, the god that helped him set up "elephant
>hunting clubs" (as absurd as this would have clearly been to any European
>airport check point.coming from Albania.unless, of course, there were 
>orders
>from the gods), the god that poured money from the heavens and trained and
>supported his successful mission. Perhaps this movie is a cover up for 
>stuff
>that readers/viewers like me, and certainly the curious world at large, and
>the enemies, needn't know about.
--whatever. Are you saying that CIA is so "godly" that has European airport 
checkpoints under its wing? Seriously, stop this bs. In case you didn't 
know, European airport checkpoints, unlike the US (until 9/11) are all 
owned, operated and controlled by their respective governments. Don't try to 
tell me that CIA has the European gov'ts under it's wing either, read the 
paper, listen to the news (hint: check what happened in Italy with some CIA 
agents).


>Pehraps Mr. Krasniqi didn't have a "double" but a "triple-life," and
>"Brooklyn Connection" maybe merely seeks to eliminate possible rumors about
>his 'third' one, one funded and supported by the invisible hand of mighty
>CIA (and it wouldn't be exactly the first time they did this).
--perhaps so. WHO THE HELL CARES?!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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From jeton at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 29 17:37:15 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:37:15 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] 60 Minutes Transcripts
Message-ID: <BAY108-F13B8C6821EFF07D9CBC8DDB5CE0@phx.gbl>

hey all

i figured i may as well post these transcripts to NYC-L. Neither is too new, 
both provide additional details. First, I'm pasting the transcript of the 
7/17 segment interviewing Florin Krasniqi. Second, i'm including the 7/24 
segment transcript on CIA "renditions" of terror "suspects". The latter 
includes followup on Khaled Al Masri, an innocent who was kidnapped in Shkup 
at the CIA's direction, tortured and interrogated in Afghanistan, and then 
released on a roadside near Tropoje. As i posted here last year, the story 
clearly indicates that Albania has been coopted into the outrageously stupid 
and shortsighted "rendering" policy.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/60minutes/main708195_page2.shtml

Buying Big Guns? No Big Deal
July 17, 2005

Fifteen years ago, Osama bin Laden sent one of his operatives to the United 
States to buy and bring back two-dozen .50-caliber rifles, a gun that can 
kill someone from over a mile away and even bring down an airplane.

In spite of all the recent efforts to curb terrorism, bin Laden could do the 
same thing today, because buying and shipping the world?s most powerful 
sniper rifle is not as difficult as you might think.

Last winter, Correspondent Ed Bradley reported on just how powerful the gun 
is. New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly had a sharpshooter fire the 
department?s own .30-caliber sniper rifle and the bullets bounced off a 
half-inch-thick plate of steel. Then, the marksman fired the .50-caliber 
sniper rifle, and the bullets blew right through the steel plate.

Now, you?ll hear from a gunrunner who, just a few years ago, was able to 
outfit a guerrilla army in Kosovo with those powerful weapons. He was 
willing to talk to 60 Minutes, because now he thinks what he did was much 
too easy.

The gunrunner's name is Florin Krasniqi, and he is seen providing a new 
shipment of weapons to Albanian rebels, who are about to smuggle them over 
the mountains into Kosovo. After a few days' journey on horseback, the guns 
will end up in the hands of a guerrilla force known as the Kosovo Liberation 
Army, which has been fighting for independence from Serbia for nearly a 
decade.

Krasniqi took these guns to his family's home in Kosovo. Most of them were 
easy to get in Albania, but not the .50-caliber rifles. "This is, we get 
from the home of the brave and the land of the free, as we would like to 
say," says Krasniqi, who lives in Brooklyn, N.Y.

Krasniqi came to America in 1989. He was smuggled across the Mexican border 
in the trunk of a car with just $50 in his pocket. Today, he?s an American 
citizen, and the owner of a highly successful roofing business.

"This is what I do for a living," says Krasniqi. "This is how we earn the 
money in New York. There?s a large Albanian-American community in the New 
York City area."

When the war broke out in Kosovo in 1998, many of the young men volunteered 
to fight. Krasniqi realized he?d be more valuable raising money for the 
guerrilla army. Then, he started buying standard equipment at a Brooklyn 
Army-Navy store.

"Anything you need to run a small guerrilla army, you can buy here in 
America," says Krasniqi. "You have all the guns you need here to fight a 
war. M-16s. That's what the U.S. soldiers carry in Iraq. All the rifles 
which U.S. soldiers use in every war, you can buy them in a gun store or a 
gun show."

What gun became the weapon of choice for Krasniqi? "By far, the weapon of 
choice was a .50-caliber rifle," says Krasniqi. "You could kill a man from 
over a mile away. You can dismantle a vehicle from a mile away."

He says it can also be "very easily" used against helicopters and planes.

If the power of the .50-caliber rifle amazed Krasniqi, what amazed him even 
more was how easy it was to buy. Krasniqi allowed a Dutch documentary film 
crew to accompany him to a gun store in Pennsylvania.

"You just have to have a credit card and clear record, and you can go buy as 
many as you want. No questions asked," says Krasniqi.

Was he surprised at how easy it was to get it? "Not just me. Most of 
non-Americans were surprised at how easy it is to get a gun in heartland 
America," says Krasniqi. "Most of the dealers in Montana and Wyoming don?t 
even ask you a question. It?s just like a grocery store."

And, he says there are a variety of choices for ammunition, which is easy to 
get as well. "Armor-piercing bullets, tracing bullets," says Krasniqi. 
"[Ammunition] is easier than the rifles themselves. For the ammunition, you 
don't have to show a driver?s license or anything."

"You can just go into a gun show or a gun store in this country and buy a 
shell that will pierce armor? A civilian," asks Bradley.

"You never did that? You?re an American. You can go to the shows and see for 
yourself," says Krasniqi. "Ask the experts. They?ll be happy to help you." 
60 Minutes asked expert Joe Vince, a former top official at the Bureau of 
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, if anyone, even a terrorist, could easily buy 
50-caliber rifles.

"We are the candy store for guns in the world. And it's easy for people to 
acquire them here," says Vince, who adds that America is "absolutely" the 
best place for a terrorist to equip himself with guns.

"There?s a lot of concern about terrorists bringing weapons of mass 
destruction into the United States," says Bradley. "Why should we care about 
small arms, guns like the .50-caliber, leaving the United States?"

"Small arms are the No. 1 weapon for terrorists," says Vince. "On the 
newsreels about Iraq and Afghanistan, you always see the insurgents standing 
there with their shoulder-held rocket launchers. But in fact, that is one 
round, where an assault weapon can be repeatedly fired ? as many rounds as 
you have. It?s a much better tactical weapon."

Are these small-caliber weapons used more often to kill people than large 
weapons? "Absolutely," says Vince.

60 Minutes asked Krasniqi how he shipped .50-caliber rifles out of the 
United States.

"You just put in the airplane, declare them and go anywhere you want," says 
Krasniqi. "It's completely legal. It's a hunting rifle."

Krasniqi says he shipped the rifles to Albania, and then the soldiers 
carried them onto the battlefields. He wouldn?t say how many .50-caliber 
rifles he sent to Kosovo, so 60 Minutes asked Stacy Sullivan, a former 
Newsweek correspondent, who wrote a book about Krasniqi called, ?Be Not 
Afraid, For You Have Sons in America.?

How many guns did Krasniqi ship over there? "Probably a couple of hundred," 
says Sullivan. "It's easy. You're allowed to take two or three at a time. He 
had a group of guys that were dispersed in the U.S., some in Alaska, some in 
Nevada, some in California, some in Michigan, some in Illinois. And they 
would each buy a few at a time, and they would take them over in twos and 
threes on commercial airlines."

Krasniqi?s team of gunrunners never had a problem getting the guns out of 
the United States. But they often had to switch flights in Switzerland, and 
authorities there wanted to know what they were doing with such powerful 
weapons.

"We told them ?We?re going to hunt elephants.? And they said, ?There?s no 
elephants in Albania,?" says Krasniqi. "And we told them we were going to 
Tanzania, so we had set up a hunting club here and a hunting club in 
Albania."

"You had to set up a phony hunting club in Albania, tell the Swiss 
authorities that men from this hunting club were going to go to Tanzania to 
shoot elephants," asks Bradley.

"Yes," says Krasniqi. "I never saw an elephant in my life, never mind shot 
one."

Even so, Krasniqi?s team needed evidence to support the African hunting 
story, so he says, "We had bought an elephant in Tanzania and set up the 
whole documentation, so it proved to them we are just elephant hunters."

He says he paid approximately $10,000 for the elephant. But he never got the 
elephant. "We were not interested in elephants," says Krasniqi. "We were 
interested to fight a desperate war."

Krasniqi?s shipments of .50-caliber rifles gave the guerrillas a confidence 
and firepower they?d never had before. But they weren?t getting enough of 
them. So Krasniqi broke the law by shipping the rifles out in larger 
quantities than customs allowed.

What was Krasniqi's largest shipment of .50-caliber rifles to Kosovo? "One 
was on an airplane that he filled up with weapons," says Sullivan. "And I 
think there were about a hundred guns in there,? 100 .50-caliber rifles."

According to Sullivan, the gunrunners transported the guns on a truck to New 
York?s Kennedy airport and hid them inside shipments of food and clothing 
destined for refugees.

"They put the palettes into a plane. Nothing gets X-rayed," says Sullivan. 
"It's wrapped up as humanitarian aid."

The fact that Krasniqi could smuggle a large shipment of guns out of Kennedy 
airport came as no surprise to the man who oversaw U.S. Customs at the time, 
now New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

"With the volume of shipments that leave our country and come in, I wouldn?t 
doubt that it?s possible to ship these guns overseas," says Kelly. "There 
are regulations that permit rifles to be shipped overseas. They limit the 
number, but there are probably ways of getting around the regulations."

"I would assume it?s safe to say we don?t have the number of customs agents 
who could check in that kind of detail every flight that leaves the 
country," says Bradley.

"No, that's true," says Kelly.

Tracking weapons as they leave the country is like finding a needle in a 
haystack, unless federal agents are already tracking the smugglers and their 
activities. Vince, a former ATF official, says Congress should pass a law 
that would enable law enforcement officials to maintain computerized records 
of gun sales, something the gun lobby strenuously opposes.

Right now, Vince says there isn't a central database for gun purchases. 
"There is no national registration whatsoever," says Vince. "If we had 
computerized all the sales of firearms, we could be looking at patterns of 
activity."

And Vince says this includes all those .50-calibers purchased by Krasniqi 
and his team of gunrunners: "People normally buy firearms for hunting, for 
sporting purposes and self-defense. But you don?t buy 50 of the same type of 
weapon ? or more in this case. It would obviously, through any type of 
analysis, ring buzzers with customs or anybody else investigating this."

How would Krasniqi describe the gun laws in this country? "More liberal than 
the wildest European imagination," says Krasniqi. "You can imagine them 
being liberal, and they are more liberal than that."

"But you wouldn?t have been able to buy guns for the Kosovo Liberation Army 
if the gun laws in this country were stricter," says Bradley. "And I?m 
hearing you say you?re anti-gun. How can you be anti-gun when you?re buying 
guns to free your people?"

"I took advantage of a liberal law here in this country to help my old 
country," says Krasniqi. "And I believe in my heart I did it for the good. 
But some people can do it for the bad."

? MMV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/20/60minutes/main710396.shtml

CIA Flying Suspects To Torture?
July 24, 2005

You may not have heard the term "rendition," at least not the way the 
Central Intelligence Agency uses it. But renditions have become one of the 
most important secret weapons in the war on terror.

In recent years, well over 100 people have disappeared or been "rendered" 
all around the world. Witnesses tell the same story: masked men in an 
unmarked jet seize their target, cut off his clothes, put him in a blindfold 
and jumpsuit, tranquilize him and fly him away.

They're describing U.S. agents collaring terrorism suspects. Some notorious 
terrorists such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the mastermind of 9/11, were 
rendered this way.

But as Correspondent Scott Pelley reported last March, it's happening to 
many others. Some are taken to prisons infamous for torture. And a few may 
have been rendered by mistake.

One of the covert missions happened in Stockholm, and the details have 
touched off a national scandal in Sweden.

Two Egyptians living in Sweden, Mohammad Al-Zery and Ahmed Agiza, were 
arrested by Swedish police and brought to an airport. An executive jet was 
waiting with a crew of mysterious masked men.

"America security agents just took over," says Tomas Hammarberg, a former 
Swedish diplomat who pressed for and got an investigation into how the 
Egyptians disappeared.

"We know that they were badly treated on the spot, that scissors and knives 
were used to take off their clothes. And they were shackled. And some 
tranquilizers were put in the back of them, obviously in order to make them 
dizzy and fall asleep."

An airport officer told 60 Minutes she saw the two men hustled to the plane. 
She didn't want to be identified, but she had no doubt about where the plane 
came from: "I know that the aircraft was American registration ... because 
the 'N' first, on the registration."

The so-called "N" number marks an American plane. Swedish records show a 
Gulfstream G5, N379P was there that night. Within hours, Al-Zery and Agiza, 
both of whom had been seeking asylum in Sweden, found themselves in an 
Egyptian prison. Hammarberg says Sweden sent a diplomat to see them weeks 
later.

What did they tell the diplomat about how they were being treated?

"That they had been treated brutally in general, had been beaten up several 
times, that they had been threatened," says Hammarberg. "But probably the 
worst phase of torture came after that first visit by the ambassador. ... 
They were under electric torture."

The Egyptians say Agiza is an Islamic militant and they sentenced him to 25 
years. But Al-Zery wasn't charged. After two years in jail, he was sent to 
his village in Egypt. The authorities are not allowing interviews.

"The option of not doing something is extraordinarily dangerous to the 
American people," says Michael Scheuer, who until three months ago was a 
senior CIA official in the counterterrorist center. Scheuer created the 
CIA's Osama bin Laden unit and helped set up the rendition program during 
the Clinton administration.

"Basically, the National Security Council gave us the mission, take down 
these cells, dismantle them and take people off the streets so they can't 
kill Americans," says Scheuer. "They just didn't give us anywhere to take 
the people after we captured."

So the CIA started taking suspects to Egypt and Jordan. Scheuer says 
renditions were authorized by Clinton's National Security Council and 
officials in Congress - and all understood what it meant to send suspects to 
those countries.

"They don't have the same legal system we have. But we know that going into 
it," says Scheuer. "And so the idea that we're gonna suddenly throw our 
hands up like Claude Raines in 'Casablanca' and say, 'I'm shocked that 
justice in Egypt isn't like it is in Milwaukee,' there's a certain 
disingenuousness to that."

"And one of the things that you know about justice in Egypt is that people 
get tortured," says Pelley.

"Well, it can be rough. I have to assume that that's the case," says 
Scheuer.

But doesn't that make the United States complicit in the torture?

"You'll have to ask the lawyers," says Scheuer.

Is it convenient?

"It's convenient in the sense that it allows American policy makers and 
American politicians to avoid making hard decisions," says Scheuer. "Yes. 
It's very convenient. It's finding someone else to do your dirty work."

The indispensable tool for that work is a small fleet of executive jets 
authorized to land at all U.S. military bases worldwide.

Scheuer wouldn't tell 60 Minutes about the planes that are used in these 
operations - that information is classified. The CIA declined to talk about 
it, but it turns out the CIA has left plenty of clues out in the open, in 
the public record.

The tail number of the Gulfstream was first reported by witnesses in 
Pakistan. In public records, the tail number came back to a company called 
Premiere Executive Transport Services, with headquarters listed in Dedham, 
Mass. But Dedham is a dead end. The address is a law office on the second 
floor of a bank. There's no airline there.

But there was one thing in the records that did lead somewhere - a second 
tail number. That number belonged to an unmarked 737. 60 Minutes found the 
jet in Scotland, apparently refueling. It's possible to track these plans by 
their flight plans. Often the information is on the Internet.

Using the Web and aviation sources, 60 Minutes was able to find 600 flights 
to 40 countries. It appears the number of flights increased greatly in the 
Bush administration after Sept. 11.

The planes are based in North Carolina. They usually fly to Dulles Airport 
outside Washington before heading overseas. Major destinations read like a 
roadmap to the war on terror - 30 trips to Jordan, 19 to Afghanistan, 17 to 
Morocco, 16 to Iraq. Other stops include Egypt, Libya, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The flight log shows one flight took the 737 to Skopje, Macedonia, to 
Baghdad and finally Kabul, Afghanistan. 60 Minutes found a man who says he 
was on that flight.

Khaled el-Masri was born in Kuwait, but he now lives in Germany with his 
wife and four children. He became a German citizen 10 years ago. He told 60 
Minutes he was on vacation in Macedonia last year when Macedonian police, 
apparently acting on a tip, took him off a bus, held him for three weeks, 
then took him to the Skopje airport where he believes he was abducted by the 
CIA.

"They took me to this room, and they hit me all over and they slashed my 
clothes with sharp objects, maybe knives or scissors," says el-Masri.

"I also heard photos being taken while this was going on - and they took off 
the blindfold and I saw that there were a lot of men standing in the room. 
They were wearing black masks and black gloves." El-Masri says he was 
injected with drugs, and after his flight, he woke up in an American-run 
prison in Afghanistan. He showed 60 Minutes a prison floor plan he drew from 
memory. He says other prisoners were from Pakistan, Tanzania, Yemen and 
Saudi Arabia. El-Masri told 60 Minutes that he was held for five months and 
interrogated by Americans through an interpreter.

"He yelled at me and he said that, 'You're in a country without laws and no 
one knows where you are. Do you know what that means?' I said yes," says 
el-Masri. "It was very clear to me that he meant I could stay in my cell for 
20 years or be buried somewhere, and nobody knows what happened to you."

He says they were asking him "whether I had contacts with Islamic parties 
like al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood or aid organizations, lots of 
questions."

He says he told the Americans he'd never been involved in militant Islam. 
El-Masri says he wasn't tortured, but he says he was beaten and kept in 
solitary confinement. Then, after his five months of questioning, he was 
simply released.

At that point, did anyone ever tell him that they'd made a mistake? "They 
told me that they had confused names and that they had cleared it up, but I 
can't imagine that," says el-Masri. "You can clear up switching names in a 
few minutes."

He says he was flown out of Afghanistan and dumped on a road in Albania. 
When he finally made his way back home to Germany, he found that his wife 
and kids had gone to her family in Lebanon. He called there to explain what 
happened.

El-Masri says that his wife believed him: "I never lied to her, and my 
appearance showed that I had been in prison."

How did he explain what happened to him to his son? "I explained to him what 
happened to me. And he understood," says el-Masri. "I said it was the 
Americans [who did this to me]."

"How do you know if you're picking up the right people," Pelley asked 
Scheuer.

"You do the best you can. It's not a science," says Scheuer. "It's gathering 
as much information as you can, deciding on the quality of it and then 
determining the risks the person poses. If you make a mistake, you make a 
mistake."

There's another destination that 60 Minutes noticed frequently in the 
plane's flight logs: Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan, a predominately 
Muslim country, with a reputation for torture.

Craig Murray is the former British ambassador there. He told 60 Minutes that 
Uzbek citizens, captured in Afghanistan, were flown back to Taskent on the 
American plane.

"I know of two instances for certain of prisoners who were brought back in a 
small jet, and I believe it was happening on a reasonably regular basis," 
says Murray.

Murray says the jet was operated by Premiere Executive Airlines.
He says in Uzbekistan, many prisoners are subject to torture techniques 
straight out of the Middle Ages: "Techniques of drowning and suffocation, 
rape was used quite commonly, and also immersion of limbs in boiling 
liquid."

Murray complained to his superiors that British intelligence was using 
information gleaned by torture. He was recalled by London four months ago 
and quit the foreign service.

Is there any reason to believe that the CIA knows that people are being 
tortured in these jails?

"The CIA definitely knows. I asked my deputy to go and speak to the CIA, and 
she came back and reported to me that she'd met with the CIA head of 
station, who told her that 'Yes, this material probably was obtained under 
torture, but the CIA didn't see that a problem.'"

The CIA disputes that. The agency told 60 Minutes that the meeting Murray 
described didn't happen. The CIA also says it does not knowingly receive 
intelligence obtained by torture.

President Bush, in a January interview with The New York Times, said: 
"Torture is never acceptable." He added, "nor do we hand over people to 
countries that do torture."

Scheuer says, in his experience, the United States asks receiving countries 
to promise that suspects will be treated according to the laws of that 
country. "I'm not completely confident that any of the information received 
was exacted by torture," says Scheuer.

In Egypt?

"In Egypt. Again, I think we have people in the Middle East in the various 
services we deal with who are extraordinarily experienced in debriefing 
people," says Scheuer.

"I personally think that any information gotten through extreme methods of 
torture would probably be pretty useless because it would be someone telling 
you what you wanted to hear. The information we have received as a result of 
these programs has been very useful to the United States."

"And if some of that useful information is gleaned by torture, that's OK," 
asks Pelley.

"It's OK with me," says Scheuer. "I'm responsible for protecting Americans."

Scheuer says in the Clinton and Bush administrations, and in Congress, 
details of rendition flights were known to top officials. Now that the 
missions are coming to light, Scheuer says there is worry in the CIA that 
field agents will take the fall if any of the missions are later deemed 
illegal.

Are CIA people feeling vulnerable to that?

"I think from the first day we ever did it there was a certain macabre humor 
that said sooner or later this sword of Damocles is gonna fall because if 
something goes wrong, the policy maker and the politicians and the 
congressional committees aren't gonna belly up to the bar and say, 'We 
authorized this,'" says Scheuer.

? MMV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.




From ak2480 at columbia.edu  Sat Jul 30 15:32:51 2005
From: ak2480 at columbia.edu (ak2480 at columbia.edu)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:32:51 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 23
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1122699608.2077.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
References: <mailman.3.1122699608.2077.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <1122751971.42ebd5e34d9a5@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>


Jeton,
Yes, since 9/11 Albania (remember they are part of the coalition of
the willing) and plenty of other countries have been much too eager
and proud to display their government's concerted efforts against
the "war against terror." See for instance the NYT article below to
read what the government of Macedonia did in order to impress the
U.S. and show them that they too were doing their utmost best to
track the terrorists - or at least pretend that they were.

Kindest Regards,
Antigona


A Fake Macedonia Terror Tale That Led to Deaths

By Nicholas Wood

SKOPJE, Macedonia, May 14 - Roughly two months after the Sept. 11,
2001 attacks on New York and Washington, a group of high-level
officials met here in Macedonia's Interior Ministry to determine
how their country could take part in the United States-led campaign
against terror.

Instead of offering troops to support American soldiers fighting in
Afghanistan, as other countries in the region had done, senior
officials and police commanders conceived a plan to "expose" a
terrorist plot against Western interests in Skopje, police
investigators here say.

The plan, they say, involved luring foreign migrants into the
country, executing them in a staged gun battle, and then claiming
they were a unit backed by Al Qaeda intent on attacking Western
embassies.

On March 2, 2002, this plan came to fruition when Interior Minister
Ljube Boskovski announced that seven "mujahedeen" had been killed
earlier that day in a shootout with the police near Skopje. Photos
were released to Western diplomats showing bodies of the dead men
with bags of uniforms and semiautomatic weapons at their side.

At the time, diplomats in Skopje questioned the government's story,
but it was not until the nationalist-led government lost elections
in September 2002 and a new center-left administration came to
power that the police began to investigate the shooting in earnest.
The full extent of the state's involvement in the incident has only
emerged in the last two weeks.

On May 4, state prosecutors charged three senior police commanders
with the killings, with two other police officers and a
businessman. Mr. Boskovski, who was voted out of office with his
colleagues in September 2002, is wanted for questioning in
connection with the attack, but the police say he has fled the
country and is believed to be in Croatia.

The current government has also raised the question of whether the
man who was prime minister at the time, Ljubco Georgievski, knew
about the plan.

Speaking in the Macedonian Parliament in late April, Hari Kostov,
who was interior minister then and has since become prime minister,
asked Mr. Georgievski if he had given "the green light for the
operation."

Mr. Georgievski did not respond on this occasion, but he and Mr.
Boskovski have consistently denied any knowledge of the plot.
Nevertheless, former members of their administration say the
investigation has implicated the state at very high levels.

"It is monstrous, there is really no other explanation for it," said
Dosta Dimovska, a former deputy prime minister in Mr. Georgievski's
government and later chief of Macedonia's intelligence agency. "The
damage will be difficult to repair."

A senior government adviser and former Interior Ministry official
who spoke on condition of anonymity said: "The state did it. The
Republic of Macedonia did it. And we will have to pay the price."

In late 2001, after a six-month guerrilla war with ethnic Albanian
rebels, relations between Macedonia's nationalist government and
the outside world were at a low ebb. Diplomats, government
officials and investigators here have suggested that the government
hoped to use the post-Sept. 11 campaign against terror to give the
government a free hand in its conflict with the mostly Muslim
ethnic Albanians.

According to a recent briefing by an Interior Ministry official,
after the first planning meeting in November 2001, police
commanders contacted the chief of police in Delcevo, a town close
to the border with Bulgaria. Delcevo is also the home town of Mr.
Georgievski and a known center for human trafficking.

The official said the police chief was told to "find a group of
Muslims with a specific physical description, who have to look like
mujahedeen."

In a recent interview, that police chief, Vlatko Ristov, who was
also a member of Mr. Georgievski's nationalist party, VMRO-DPMNE,
admitted contacting the trafficker responsible for finding the
migrants.

"I only contacted the persons who transported them" across the
border from Bulgaria, Mr. Ristov said. He said the group's journey
to Skopje was organized by another human trafficker based in
Skopje.

But later in the same interview, he denied any knowledge of the
deal, and said reports of his involvement had been made by local
criminals seeking to discredit him.

The migrants - six Pakistanis and one Indian - had hoped to make
their way to Western Europe, when they were contacted by the
traffickers, and offered the possibility of traveling to Greece,
the Interior Ministry official said. The Pakistanis were later
identified as Muhammed Riaz, Omar Farooq, Syed Bilal, Hussein Shah,
Asif Javed, and Khalid Iqbal. The name of the Indian remains
unknown.

They were brought across the border and housed in Delcevo for one
night, after which they were driven to Skopje and taken to an
apartment, where they were given food and clothing. The official
could not say how long the men were kept in the apartment.

At the same time a special police unit, called the Lions, formed by
and under the direct control of the interior minister, was
instructed to train for an antiterrorist operation at their base in
Katlanovo, a village close to Skopje.

"Only their general knew that they were not real terrorists," said
the official.

In February 2002, Mr. Boskovski surprised one Western diplomat with
claims about the presence of mujahedeen in areas affected by the
previous year's conflict northwest of Skopje, something the
diplomat said international cease-fire monitors in the region were
unable to confirm.

At 2 a.m. on March 2, the official said, the seven Asian men were
driven in a minivan to a vineyard on the outskirts of Skopje and
left there. Once their driver left, four members of the Lions
opened fire on the men with automatic weapons, killing all seven.

Within hours, Mr. Boskovski appeared outside the United States
Embassy in Skopje accompanied by television camera crews, an
armored personnel carrier and members of the Lions, where he
announced the shooting and explained that the police had been
monitoring the men, who were suspected of connections with Al Qaeda
and ethnic Albanian rebels, to prevent them from carrying out
attacks against the British, American and German Embassies.

In an apparently contradictory statement, he also said the shooting
occurred when a routine police patrol had been ambushed.

Autopsies performed on the men as well as police photos suggested
that all the shooting had come from the police side, and that the
police had tried to stage the crime scene.

All seven bodies had multiple bullet wounds and in one case as many
as 53, according to the Interior Ministry. Later, the police showed
pictures of a Lada jeep with two bullet holes in it as proof that a
gun battle had taken place.

One of the guns found on the men was new and had not been fired. In
another case, the official said, a pistol was wedged into one of
the men's jeans in a position that covered four bullets wounds, but
the pistol itself was undamaged, suggesting it had been placed there
after the man had been killed. The positions of the men, and their
clothing, also suggested they had been dragged into place.

"It was not a professional job," said Mirjana Kontevska, spokeswoman
for the Interior Ministry.

Under pressure from Western diplomats, in the summer of 2002 Mr.
Georgievski's government opened an inquiry into the shootings, but
exonerated the police involved of any wrongdoing, a conclusion some
diplomats here said suggested a cover-up. Another year and a half
passed before the new government pressed charges.

A lawyer for relatives of the Pakistani men is now seeking damages
from the Macedonian government.



Quoting nyc-l-request at alb-net.com:

> Send NYC-L mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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> than "Re: Contents of NYC-L digest..."
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. 60 Minutes Transcripts (Jeton Ademaj)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:37:15 -0400
> From: "Jeton Ademaj" <jeton at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [NYC-L] 60 Minutes Transcripts
> To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
> Message-ID: <BAY108-F13B8C6821EFF07D9CBC8DDB5CE0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> hey all
>
> i figured i may as well post these transcripts to NYC-L. Neither
> is too new,
> both provide additional details. First, I'm pasting the
> transcript of the
> 7/17 segment interviewing Florin Krasniqi. Second, i'm including
> the 7/24
> segment transcript on CIA "renditions" of terror "suspects". The
> latter
> includes followup on Khaled Al Masri, an innocent who was
> kidnapped in Shkup
> at the CIA's direction, tortured and interrogated in Afghanistan,
> and then
> released on a roadside near Tropoje. As i posted here last year,
> the story
> clearly indicates that Albania has been coopted into the
> outrageously stupid
> and shortsighted "rendering" policy.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/60minutes/main708195_page2.shtml
>
> Buying Big Guns? No Big Deal
> July 17, 2005
>
> Fifteen years ago, Osama bin Laden sent one of his operatives to
> the United
> States to buy and bring back two-dozen .50-caliber rifles, a gun
> that can
> kill someone from over a mile away and even bring down an
> airplane.
>
> In spite of all the recent efforts to curb terrorism, bin Laden
> could do the
> same thing today, because buying and shipping the world?s most
> powerful
> sniper rifle is not as difficult as you might think.
>
> Last winter, Correspondent Ed Bradley reported on just how
> powerful the gun
> is. New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly had a
> sharpshooter fire the
> department?s own .30-caliber sniper rifle and the bullets bounced
> off a
> half-inch-thick plate of steel. Then, the marksman fired the
> .50-caliber
> sniper rifle, and the bullets blew right through the steel plate.
>
> Now, you?ll hear from a gunrunner who, just a few years ago, was
> able to
> outfit a guerrilla army in Kosovo with those powerful weapons. He
> was
> willing to talk to 60 Minutes, because now he thinks what he did
> was much
> too easy.
>
> The gunrunner's name is Florin Krasniqi, and he is seen providing
> a new
> shipment of weapons to Albanian rebels, who are about to smuggle
> them over
> the mountains into Kosovo. After a few days' journey on
> horseback, the guns
> will end up in the hands of a guerrilla force known as the Kosovo
> Liberation
> Army, which has been fighting for independence from Serbia for
> nearly a
> decade.
>
> Krasniqi took these guns to his family's home in Kosovo. Most of
> them were
> easy to get in Albania, but not the .50-caliber rifles. "This is,
> we get
> from the home of the brave and the land of the free, as we would
> like to
> say," says Krasniqi, who lives in Brooklyn, N.Y.
>
> Krasniqi came to America in 1989. He was smuggled across the
> Mexican border
> in the trunk of a car with just $50 in his pocket. Today, he?s an
> American
> citizen, and the owner of a highly successful roofing business.
>
> "This is what I do for a living," says Krasniqi. "This is how we
> earn the
> money in New York. There?s a large Albanian-American community in
> the New
> York City area."
>
> When the war broke out in Kosovo in 1998, many of the young men
> volunteered
> to fight. Krasniqi realized he?d be more valuable raising money
> for the
> guerrilla army. Then, he started buying standard equipment at a
> Brooklyn
> Army-Navy store.
>
> "Anything you need to run a small guerrilla army, you can buy
> here in
> America," says Krasniqi. "You have all the guns you need here to
> fight a
> war. M-16s. That's what the U.S. soldiers carry in Iraq. All the
> rifles
> which U.S. soldiers use in every war, you can buy them in a gun
> store or a
> gun show."
>
> What gun became the weapon of choice for Krasniqi? "By far, the
> weapon of
> choice was a .50-caliber rifle," says Krasniqi. "You could kill a
> man from
> over a mile away. You can dismantle a vehicle from a mile away."
>
> He says it can also be "very easily" used against helicopters and
> planes.
>
> If the power of the .50-caliber rifle amazed Krasniqi, what
> amazed him even
> more was how easy it was to buy. Krasniqi allowed a Dutch
> documentary film
> crew to accompany him to a gun store in Pennsylvania.
>
> "You just have to have a credit card and clear record, and you
> can go buy as
> many as you want. No questions asked," says Krasniqi.
>
> Was he surprised at how easy it was to get it? "Not just me. Most
> of
> non-Americans were surprised at how easy it is to get a gun in
> heartland
> America," says Krasniqi. "Most of the dealers in Montana and
> Wyoming don?t
> even ask you a question. It?s just like a grocery store."
>
> And, he says there are a variety of choices for ammunition, which
> is easy to
> get as well. "Armor-piercing bullets, tracing bullets," says
> Krasniqi.
> "[Ammunition] is easier than the rifles themselves. For the
> ammunition, you
> don't have to show a driver?s license or anything."
>
> "You can just go into a gun show or a gun store in this country
> and buy a
> shell that will pierce armor? A civilian," asks Bradley.
>
> "You never did that? You?re an American. You can go to the shows
> and see for
> yourself," says Krasniqi. "Ask the experts. They?ll be happy to
> help you."
> 60 Minutes asked expert Joe Vince, a former top official at the
> Bureau of
> Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, if anyone, even a terrorist, could
> easily buy
> 50-caliber rifles.
>
> "We are the candy store for guns in the world. And it's easy for
> people to
> acquire them here," says Vince, who adds that America is
> "absolutely" the
> best place for a terrorist to equip himself with guns.
>
> "There?s a lot of concern about terrorists bringing weapons of
> mass
> destruction into the United States," says Bradley. "Why should we
> care about
> small arms, guns like the .50-caliber, leaving the United
> States?"
>
> "Small arms are the No. 1 weapon for terrorists," says Vince. "On
> the
> newsreels about Iraq and Afghanistan, you always see the
> insurgents standing
> there with their shoulder-held rocket launchers. But in fact,
> that is one
> round, where an assault weapon can be repeatedly fired ? as many
> rounds as
> you have. It?s a much better tactical weapon."
>
> Are these small-caliber weapons used more often to kill people
> than large
> weapons? "Absolutely," says Vince.
>
> 60 Minutes asked Krasniqi how he shipped .50-caliber rifles out
> of the
> United States.
>
> "You just put in the airplane, declare them and go anywhere you
> want," says
> Krasniqi. "It's completely legal. It's a hunting rifle."
>
> Krasniqi says he shipped the rifles to Albania, and then the
> soldiers
> carried them onto the battlefields. He wouldn?t say how many
> .50-caliber
> rifles he sent to Kosovo, so 60 Minutes asked Stacy Sullivan, a
> former
> Newsweek correspondent, who wrote a book about Krasniqi called,
> ?Be Not
> Afraid, For You Have Sons in America.?
>
> How many guns did Krasniqi ship over there? "Probably a couple of
> hundred,"
> says Sullivan. "It's easy. You're allowed to take two or three at
> a time. He
> had a group of guys that were dispersed in the U.S., some in
> Alaska, some in
> Nevada, some in California, some in Michigan, some in Illinois.
> And they
> would each buy a few at a time, and they would take them over in
> twos and
> threes on commercial airlines."
>
> Krasniqi?s team of gunrunners never had a problem getting the
> guns out of
> the United States. But they often had to switch flights in
> Switzerland, and
> authorities there wanted to know what they were doing with such
> powerful
> weapons.
>
> "We told them ?We?re going to hunt elephants.? And they said,
> ?There?s no
> elephants in Albania,?" says Krasniqi. "And we told them we were
> going to
> Tanzania, so we had set up a hunting club here and a hunting club
> in
> Albania."
>
> "You had to set up a phony hunting club in Albania, tell the
> Swiss
> authorities that men from this hunting club were going to go to
> Tanzania to
> shoot elephants," asks Bradley.
>
> "Yes," says Krasniqi. "I never saw an elephant in my life, never
> mind shot
> one."
>
> Even so, Krasniqi?s team needed evidence to support the African
> hunting
> story, so he says, "We had bought an elephant in Tanzania and set
> up the
> whole documentation, so it proved to them we are just elephant
> hunters."
>
> He says he paid approximately $10,000 for the elephant. But he
> never got the
> elephant. "We were not interested in elephants," says Krasniqi.
> "We were
> interested to fight a desperate war."
>
> Krasniqi?s shipments of .50-caliber rifles gave the guerrillas a
> confidence
> and firepower they?d never had before. But they weren?t getting
> enough of
> them. So Krasniqi broke the law by shipping the rifles out in
> larger
> quantities than customs allowed.
>
> What was Krasniqi's largest shipment of .50-caliber rifles to
> Kosovo? "One
> was on an airplane that he filled up with weapons," says
> Sullivan. "And I
> think there were about a hundred guns in there,
 100 .50-caliber
> rifles."
>
> According to Sullivan, the gunrunners transported the guns on a
> truck to New
> York?s Kennedy airport and hid them inside shipments of food and
> clothing
> destined for refugees.
>
> "They put the palettes into a plane. Nothing gets X-rayed," says
> Sullivan.
> "It's wrapped up as humanitarian aid."
>
> The fact that Krasniqi could smuggle a large shipment of guns out
> of Kennedy
> airport came as no surprise to the man who oversaw U.S. Customs
> at the time,
> now New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.
>
> "With the volume of shipments that leave our country and come in,
> I wouldn?t
> doubt that it?s possible to ship these guns overseas," says
> Kelly. "There
> are regulations that permit rifles to be shipped overseas. They
> limit the
> number, but there are probably ways of getting around the
> regulations."
>
> "I would assume it?s safe to say we don?t have the number of
> customs agents
> who could check in that kind of detail every flight that leaves
> the
> country," says Bradley.
>
> "No, that's true," says Kelly.
>
> Tracking weapons as they leave the country is like finding a
> needle in a
> haystack, unless federal agents are already tracking the
> smugglers and their
> activities. Vince, a former ATF official, says Congress should
> pass a law
> that would enable law enforcement officials to maintain
> computerized records
> of gun sales, something the gun lobby strenuously opposes.
>
> Right now, Vince says there isn't a central database for gun
> purchases.
> "There is no national registration whatsoever," says Vince. "If
> we had
> computerized all the sales of firearms, we could be looking at
> patterns of
> activity."
>
> And Vince says this includes all those .50-calibers purchased by
> Krasniqi
> and his team of gunrunners: "People normally buy firearms for
> hunting, for
> sporting purposes and self-defense. But you don?t buy 50 of the
> same type of
> weapon ? or more in this case. It would obviously, through any
> type of
> analysis, ring buzzers with customs or anybody else investigating
> this."
>
> How would Krasniqi describe the gun laws in this country? "More
> liberal than
> the wildest European imagination," says Krasniqi. "You can
> imagine them
> being liberal, and they are more liberal than that."
>
> "But you wouldn?t have been able to buy guns for the Kosovo
> Liberation Army
> if the gun laws in this country were stricter," says Bradley.
> "And I?m
> hearing you say you?re anti-gun. How can you be anti-gun when
> you?re buying
> guns to free your people?"
>
> "I took advantage of a liberal law here in this country to help
> my old
> country," says Krasniqi. "And I believe in my heart I did it for
> the good.
> But some people can do it for the bad."
>
> ? MMV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/20/60minutes/main710396.shtml
>
> CIA Flying Suspects To Torture?
> July 24, 2005
>
> You may not have heard the term "rendition," at least not the way
> the
> Central Intelligence Agency uses it. But renditions have become
> one of the
> most important secret weapons in the war on terror.
>
> In recent years, well over 100 people have disappeared or been
> "rendered"
> all around the world. Witnesses tell the same story: masked men
> in an
> unmarked jet seize their target, cut off his clothes, put him in
> a blindfold
> and jumpsuit, tranquilize him and fly him away.
>
> They're describing U.S. agents collaring terrorism suspects. Some
> notorious
> terrorists such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the mastermind of
> 9/11, were
> rendered this way.
>
> But as Correspondent Scott Pelley reported last March, it's
> happening to
> many others. Some are taken to prisons infamous for torture. And
> a few may
> have been rendered by mistake.
>
> One of the covert missions happened in Stockholm, and the details
> have
> touched off a national scandal in Sweden.
>
> Two Egyptians living in Sweden, Mohammad Al-Zery and Ahmed Agiza,
> were
> arrested by Swedish police and brought to an airport. An
> executive jet was
> waiting with a crew of mysterious masked men.
>
> "America security agents just took over," says Tomas Hammarberg,
> a former
> Swedish diplomat who pressed for and got an investigation into
> how the
> Egyptians disappeared.
>
> "We know that they were badly treated on the spot, that scissors
> and knives
> were used to take off their clothes. And they were shackled. And
> some
> tranquilizers were put in the back of them, obviously in order to
> make them
> dizzy and fall asleep."
>
> An airport officer told 60 Minutes she saw the two men hustled to
> the plane.
> She didn't want to be identified, but she had no doubt about
> where the plane
> came from: "I know that the aircraft was American registration
> ... because
> the 'N' first, on the registration."
>
> The so-called "N" number marks an American plane. Swedish records
> show a
> Gulfstream G5, N379P was there that night. Within hours, Al-Zery
> and Agiza,
> both of whom had been seeking asylum in Sweden, found themselves
> in an
> Egyptian prison. Hammarberg says Sweden sent a diplomat to see
> them weeks
> later.
>
> What did they tell the diplomat about how they were being
> treated?
>
> "That they had been treated brutally in general, had been beaten
> up several
> times, that they had been threatened," says Hammarberg. "But
> probably the
> worst phase of torture came after that first visit by the
> ambassador. ...
> They were under electric torture."
>
> The Egyptians say Agiza is an Islamic militant and they sentenced
> him to 25
> years. But Al-Zery wasn't charged. After two years in jail, he
> was sent to
> his village in Egypt. The authorities are not allowing
> interviews.
>
> "The option of not doing something is extraordinarily dangerous
> to the
> American people," says Michael Scheuer, who until three months
> ago was a
> senior CIA official in the counterterrorist center. Scheuer
> created the
> CIA's Osama bin Laden unit and helped set up the rendition
> program during
> the Clinton administration.
>
> "Basically, the National Security Council gave us the mission,
> take down
> these cells, dismantle them and take people off the streets so
> they can't
> kill Americans," says Scheuer. "They just didn't give us anywhere
> to take
> the people after we captured."
>
> So the CIA started taking suspects to Egypt and Jordan. Scheuer
> says
> renditions were authorized by Clinton's National Security Council
> and
> officials in Congress - and all understood what it meant to send
> suspects to
> those countries.
>
> "They don't have the same legal system we have. But we know that
> going into
> it," says Scheuer. "And so the idea that we're gonna suddenly
> throw our
> hands up like Claude Raines in 'Casablanca' and say, 'I'm shocked
> that
> justice in Egypt isn't like it is in Milwaukee,' there's a
> certain
> disingenuousness to that."
>
> "And one of the things that you know about justice in Egypt is
> that people
> get tortured," says Pelley.
>
> "Well, it can be rough. I have to assume that that's the case,"
> says
> Scheuer.
>
> But doesn't that make the United States complicit in the torture?
>
> "You'll have to ask the lawyers," says Scheuer.
>
> Is it convenient?
>
> "It's convenient in the sense that it allows American policy
> makers and
> American politicians to avoid making hard decisions," says
> Scheuer. "Yes.
> It's very convenient. It's finding someone else to do your dirty
> work."
>
> The indispensable tool for that work is a small fleet of
> executive jets
> authorized to land at all U.S. military bases worldwide.
>
> Scheuer wouldn't tell 60 Minutes about the planes that are used
> in these
> operations - that information is classified. The CIA declined to
> talk about
> it, but it turns out the CIA has left plenty of clues out in the
> open, in
> the public record.
>
> The tail number of the Gulfstream was first reported by witnesses
> in
> Pakistan. In public records, the tail number came back to a
> company called
> Premiere Executive Transport Services, with headquarters listed
> in Dedham,
> Mass. But Dedham is a dead end. The address is a law office on
> the second
> floor of a bank. There's no airline there.
>
> But there was one thing in the records that did lead somewhere -
> a second
> tail number. That number belonged to an unmarked 737. 60 Minutes
> found the
> jet in Scotland, apparently refueling. It's possible to track
> these plans by
> their flight plans. Often the information is on the Internet.
>
> Using the Web and aviation sources, 60 Minutes was able to find
> 600 flights
> to 40 countries. It appears the number of flights increased
> greatly in the
> Bush administration after Sept. 11.
>
> The planes are based in North Carolina. They usually fly to
> Dulles Airport
> outside Washington before heading overseas. Major destinations
> read like a
> roadmap to the war on terror - 30 trips to Jordan, 19 to
> Afghanistan, 17 to
> Morocco, 16 to Iraq. Other stops include Egypt, Libya, Guantanamo
> Bay, Cuba.
>
> The flight log shows one flight took the 737 to Skopje,
> Macedonia, to
> Baghdad and finally Kabul, Afghanistan. 60 Minutes found a man
> who says he
> was on that flight.
>
> Khaled el-Masri was born in Kuwait, but he now lives in Germany
> with his
> wife and four children. He became a German citizen 10 years ago.
> He told 60
> Minutes he was on vacation in Macedonia last year when Macedonian
> police,
> apparently acting on a tip, took him off a bus, held him for
> three weeks,
> then took him to the Skopje airport where he believes he was
> abducted by the
> CIA.
>
> "They took me to this room, and they hit me all over and they
> slashed my
> clothes with sharp objects, maybe knives or scissors," says
> el-Masri.
>
> "I also heard photos being taken while this was going on - and
> they took off
> the blindfold and I saw that there were a lot of men standing in
> the room.
> They were wearing black masks and black gloves." El-Masri says he
> was
> injected with drugs, and after his flight, he woke up in an
> American-run
> prison in Afghanistan. He showed 60 Minutes a prison floor plan
> he drew from
> memory. He says other prisoners were from Pakistan, Tanzania,
> Yemen and
> Saudi Arabia. El-Masri told 60 Minutes that he was held for five
> months and
> interrogated by Americans through an interpreter.
>
> "He yelled at me and he said that, 'You're in a country without
> laws and no
> one knows where you are. Do you know what that means?' I said
> yes," says
> el-Masri. "It was very clear to me that he meant I could stay in
> my cell for
> 20 years or be buried somewhere, and nobody knows what happened
> to you."
>
> He says they were asking him "whether I had contacts with Islamic
> parties
> like al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood or aid organizations,
> lots of
> questions."
>
> He says he told the Americans he'd never been involved in
> militant Islam.
> El-Masri says he wasn't tortured, but he says he was beaten and
> kept in
> solitary confinement. Then, after his five months of questioning,
> he was
> simply released.
>
> At that point, did anyone ever tell him that they'd made a
> mistake? "They
> told me that they had confused names and that they had cleared it
> up, but I
> can't imagine that," says el-Masri. "You can clear up switching
> names in a
> few minutes."
>
> He says he was flown out of Afghanistan and dumped on a road in
> Albania.
> When he finally made his way back home to Germany, he found that
> his wife
> and kids had gone to her family in Lebanon. He called there to
> explain what
> happened.
>
> El-Masri says that his wife believed him: "I never lied to her,
> and my
> appearance showed that I had been in prison."
>
> How did he explain what happened to him to his son? "I explained
> to him what
> happened to me. And he understood," says el-Masri. "I said it was
> the
> Americans [who did this to me]."
>
> "How do you know if you're picking up the right people," Pelley
> asked
> Scheuer.
>
> "You do the best you can. It's not a science," says Scheuer.
> "It's gathering
> as much information as you can, deciding on the quality of it and
> then
> determining the risks the person poses. If you make a mistake,
> you make a
> mistake."
>
> There's another destination that 60 Minutes noticed frequently in
> the
> plane's flight logs: Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan, a
> predominately
> Muslim country, with a reputation for torture.
>
> Craig Murray is the former British ambassador there. He told 60
> Minutes that
> Uzbek citizens, captured in Afghanistan, were flown back to
> Taskent on the
> American plane.
>
> "I know of two instances for certain of prisoners who were
> brought back in a
> small jet, and I believe it was happening on a reasonably regular
> basis,"
> says Murray.
>
> Murray says the jet was operated by Premiere Executive Airlines.
> He says in Uzbekistan, many prisoners are subject to torture
> techniques
> straight out of the Middle Ages: "Techniques of drowning and
> suffocation,
> rape was used quite commonly, and also immersion of limbs in
> boiling
> liquid."
>
> Murray complained to his superiors that British intelligence was
> using
> information gleaned by torture. He was recalled by London four
> months ago
> and quit the foreign service.
>
> Is there any reason to believe that the CIA knows that people are
> being
> tortured in these jails?
>
> "The CIA definitely knows. I asked my deputy to go and speak to
> the CIA, and
> she came back and reported to me that she'd met with the CIA head
> of
> station, who told her that 'Yes, this material probably was
> obtained under
> torture, but the CIA didn't see that a problem.'"
>
> The CIA disputes that. The agency told 60 Minutes that the
> meeting Murray
> described didn't happen. The CIA also says it does not knowingly
> receive
> intelligence obtained by torture.
>
> President Bush, in a January interview with The New York Times,
> said:
> "Torture is never acceptable." He added, "nor do we hand over
> people to
> countries that do torture."
>
> Scheuer says, in his experience, the United States asks receiving
> countries
> to promise that suspects will be treated according to the laws of
> that
> country. "I'm not completely confident that any of the
> information received
> was exacted by torture," says Scheuer.
>
> In Egypt?
>
> "In Egypt. Again, I think we have people in the Middle East in
> the various
> services we deal with who are extraordinarily experienced in
> debriefing
> people," says Scheuer.
>
> "I personally think that any information gotten through extreme
> methods of
> torture would probably be pretty useless because it would be
> someone telling
> you what you wanted to hear. The information we have received as
> a result of
> these programs has been very useful to the United States."
>
> "And if some of that useful information is gleaned by torture,
> that's OK,"
> asks Pelley.
>
> "It's OK with me," says Scheuer. "I'm responsible for protecting
> Americans."
>
> Scheuer says in the Clinton and Bush administrations, and in
> Congress,
> details of rendition flights were known to top officials. Now
> that the
> missions are coming to light, Scheuer says there is worry in the
> CIA that
> field agents will take the fall if any of the missions are later
> deemed
> illegal.
>
> Are CIA people feeling vulnerable to that?
>
> "I think from the first day we ever did it there was a certain
> macabre humor
> that said sooner or later this sword of Damocles is gonna fall
> because if
> something goes wrong, the policy maker and the politicians and
> the
> congressional committees aren't gonna belly up to the bar and
> say, 'We
> authorized this,'" says Scheuer.
>
> ? MMV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> NYC-L mailing list
> NYC-L at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/nyc-l
>
>
> End of NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 23
> *************************************
>




From euroguy666 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 30 15:44:06 2005
From: euroguy666 at yahoo.com (KL3V1S)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NYC-L] NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 23
In-Reply-To: <1122751971.42ebd5e34d9a5@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <20050730194406.46480.qmail@web52602.mail.yahoo.com>

Maqedonasit jane kafshe dhe debila...whats new?


__________________________________________________
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From jeton at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 31 00:22:50 2005
From: jeton at hotmail.com (Jeton Ademaj)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:22:50 -0400
Subject: [NYC-L] Antigona, Isa, Al-Qaeda
In-Reply-To: <mailman.449.1122751975.30757.nyc-l@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <BAY108-F254067B462CD490BD9E107B5C00@phx.gbl>

Hi Antigona

I certainly agree with your main point, but i would add that the Khaled 
Al-Masri account i provided is more clearly related to Balkan Govts playing 
kiss-up to USA spooks. I suspect Boskovski's actions were more related to 
internal Mac politics and a desire to create "wiggle-room" for a hardline 
crackdown from Shkup. from what i know the USA wasn't involved in the 
Boskovski slaughter, and to it's rare credit Shkup seems to be on the ball 
prosecuting Bosko's outrageous blood-sacrifice of innocent migrant 
workers...9/11 will be rippling out for decades i'm afraid. the imperative 
is Ripple-Management.

I'd also add that the Al-Masri fiasco and it's like are stupid precisely 
because they can be used as tools for Salafist-extremists to recruit 
followers in the Balkans. The reason Al Qaeda never gained an Albanian 
foothold to match the one it gained in Bosnia is because those arguments 
that rippled thru State in the early 90's about using the Balkans as a 
bridge to the Islamic world finally bore fruit. it was too late for Bosnia, 
as Clinton's pussying-out over campaign pledges veered into the open-door 
policy for Mujaheddin and Iranian arms shipments to the Bosnians as the 
implications of total inaction really set-in...but NATO's bombing in '99 
combined with it's reported use of the KLA for some targeting applications 
checked the advance of Al Qaeda into Albanian territories. That success 
could easily be lost if the USA chooses to give Al Qaeda propaganda 
victories in Albo territory by using Albos to do evil to innocent muslims. 
Some at Langley may have speculated that any such Al Qaeda foothold would 
give DC additional leverage over Albos, but overall it's contemptuous of the 
War On Terror's stated aims (containment, for instance!)

2nd PS to Isa: THAT point is one i still intend to elaborate in response to 
your May hissyfit about being called a "brownshirt" (aka Nazi is how you 
took it). Besides the fact that i was referring to YOU and not Albos 
generally, and that it was only half-serious (you are MUCH mellower onlist 
than u used to be, but thats not saying too much :) -- I thought it was a 
tad funny to be calling me "irresponsible", with a "slippery pen", when 
chasing down your own links led me to articles and interviews where you 
played up the danger of an Al-Qaeda foothold among katundars. And that our 
whole exchange was based on your criticizing "people onlist" (aka ME, 
mostly) posting State Dept transcripts and not shmoozing State desk officers 
instead. also funny that Josh Black aint responded to my last email relating 
that...he's usually much more responsive! ho-hum...i DO like the idea about 
getting an Albanian Studies chair endowed somewhere cool but otherwise 
thought our exchange had too much inky-cloudy-ness from you (grad school 
habit i'm sure) , and it also sounded like you were too casual about 
dismissing ideas (eg "what NOT to do, as opposed to what TO do")...it 
sounded a bit like Bleron guarding against non-useful actions by AASO and 
the latter's resultant morbidity. Only you lack Bleron's humor and 
tyrranilicious bone-structure, as most of us do! And not to be snippy, but 
it was cute having u dismiss media outreach to larger media outlets, only to 
reference your own articles in outlandishly obscure ones (the *alternative* 
Ottoman review? what, the regular one is too mainstream, too "poppy"?) 
Furthermore, I must echo one of your interviewers who said that your 
dismissals of anti-Serbian abuse as "overstated" sounded insensitive, 
contemptuous and reflexively apologist.

Lastly, i caught some semantic *inklings* of homophobic commentary in your 
earlier posts ("remission/submission/emission") but i must say i got mad at 
the "plumage, prancing around" bullshit; it clarified that your references 
to my gayness would remain ambiguous and shrouded in that 
plausible-deniability-shit thats a by-product of those unfortunate campus 
speech codes. I prefer my encounters with bigotry (however mild) to be more 
obvious, whereas your allusions sounded, well, abstracted in a brown-shirty 
way. Like LeRoi Jones (aka Amiri Baraka) babbling about Bayard Rustin being 
"an untrustworthy Negro...I wanna know when and how he's gonna submit!". 
Just say "man-up, faggot!" and call it a day!

I really should have waited to review/excerpt your last big email b4 writing 
this mini-reply, but i'm procrastinating finishing up a several-thousand 
word piece elsewhere...let this suffice for now, reply at will, but i cant 
reply for a few days cuz procrastination and the attendent 
adrenaline-rush-of-rushing is a weakness of mine.

Best to all :)
J


>Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:32:51 -0400
>From: ak2480 at columbia.edu
>Subject: Re: [NYC-L] NYC-L Digest, Vol 61, Issue 23
>To: nyc-l at alb-net.com
>Message-ID: <1122751971.42ebd5e34d9a5 at cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
>Jeton,
>Yes, since 9/11 Albania (remember they are part of the coalition of
>the willing) and plenty of other countries have been much too eager
>and proud to display their government's concerted efforts against
>the "war against terror." See for instance the NYT article below to
>read what the government of Macedonia did in order to impress the
>U.S. and show them that they too were doing their utmost best to
>track the terrorists - or at least pretend that they were.
>
>Kindest Regards,
>Antigona
>
>
>A Fake Macedonia Terror Tale That Led to Deaths
>
>By Nicholas Wood
>
>SKOPJE, Macedonia, May 14 -