[ALBSA-Info] NYTimes.com Article: Seizing Dictatorial Power

[Endri Leno]

Duke a marre stafeten atje ku e late juve.
I am curious to know where I can find your real
democracy, because I can't think of any place where it
is exercised, at least not right now, but, please,
enlighten me if you can.  
You are able to speak out your mind, oppose government
policies, and criticize in a country with "the
administration of dimwit such as George W. Bush and of
a dangerous fundamentalist such as Ashcroft", ISN'T
THIS AS GOOD AS IT GETS???!!!
Well, maybe it can get better, we can all send a
petition to President Bush, asking him to apologize to
XHA for offending her hippie intellect.  Or, maybe
even better, we can nominate her for President, so
that once and for all "real" democracy will be
established and we wouldn't have to look further.

And, also read more carefully.  I didn't say US
imperialism, I said Western imperialism.  
You may not like but wasn't it imperialism - maybe
with a different name - that yes, pulled us out of the
stone age, into the ancient civilizations, of the
Greek world, Rome etc. etc., into the middle ages, and
on, and on, to where we are now?
I hope, you don't say that this was done by democracy,
love, or righteousness during all those past
centuries.  If you really think that, YOU ARE NAIVE. 
Because as far back as I can see world advanced by
means war, and expansionism.  

The societies of your real democracy, and love, are
indeed excellent ideas, but they never have and
probably will never exist because this is not in the
human nature and it will actually cause a society to
freeze in time.  
Wasn't communism but a failed attempt to create such a
society?  

As a general observation, it wasn't a long time ago,
actually before 9/11 terrorist attack, that we were
receiving, email-s, in this and other lists, about why
no one is doing anything about the suffering of the
people of Afghanistan, and how we should pressure the
Western governments to do something about it.
Well, A LOT IS BEING DONE NOW.  But for strange
reasons some people do not seem to like this. This war
against Taleban is called cruel and it is the only
reason why thousands of innocent Afghanis are only
starving right now.  
This is, as the saying goes, "Hall me burre, hall pa
burre, hall te mos martohesh kurre."

As far as my patriotism goes keep in mind that I am
neither an American citizen nor a permanent resident,
I am an Albanian student, a person who is able to see
how things really are, and understand that not
everything is right in this country - after all
nothing is perfect - and does not ramble on and on
about the "fundamentalist", "dictatorial", "fascist",
etc, etc, government of this country.  After all I
haven't had any problems with these "monsters" that
you describe, and I don't know of any other person who
has.

In conclusion, please, be calm.  I am not going to
call you an "infidel" but an angered pre-youth, who
protests because the theoretical democracy is not
being respected.  I am going to call you "A Rebel
Without a Cause".

E. Leno


--- Xhuliana Agolli <jetkoti at hotmail.com> wrote:
>           ----------- ALBSA-Info Mailing List
> ---------
>           - ALBSA Web Site:
> http://www.albstudent.com/albsa -
>  
> In a way, one's views and one's tendencies in
> opining can be shaped by one's 
> experiences. At least, that's what I see happening
> in my case. I think 
> you're right in so far as you imply that I too am
> one of these 
> anti-government "hippies". I have no problem saying
> it outloud that I am not 
> for or with the administration of a dimwit such as
> George W. Bush and of a 
> dangerous fundamentalist such as Ashcroft. They both
> offend my intellect 
> very deeply.
> 
> As per your claim that I should be feeling "guilty"
> for 'enjoying' the 
> benefits of Imperialist America, I can only say to
> you that that is a very 
> poor argument. Actually it's not an argument at all
> if one considers its 
> object. It doesn't address the views that you think
> I may have; it addresses 
> a fact that no one can change, a fact that has to do
> with the location of my 
> body rather than my beliefs and/or views, viz., that
> I was born and raised 
> in Albania and not Pakistan, and that I've ended up
> in the States rather 
> than Afghanistan. That tells absolutely nothing as
> to whether I'm actually 
> "enjoying" the consequenes of
> imperialist/expansionist policies excercised 
> by the US. People can't do much about where they're
> born or where they end 
> up becoming old. And that should have nothing to do
> with the issue here, if 
> we're considering the nature of American foreign
> policies and whether 
> they're right or wrong or... I actually am having a
> hard time seeing what 
> you're thinking of when you say that "These people
> criticize the imperialist 
> policies and at the same time enjoy the benefits
> that resulted from these 
> policies." Please cite me some "benefits" that have
> been enjoyed BY THE 
> PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA from
> imperialist/expansionist 
> tactics.
> 
> And, please, don't be so naive as to consider the
> alternative to an 
> imperialist/expansionist US as the equivalent of
> "stone-age". America, YOUR 
> America, did not invent its (mind
> you,REPRESENTATIVE) "democracy". And 
> civilization was not born here. If there is one
> other thing that was born 
> here, besides the Atomic Bomb, and besides the other
> many great 
> technological and scientific novelties--I'm sorry to
> say--is the opposite of 
> what is generally considered as civilization. And
> please control your 
> patriotism lest you should declare me at some point
> an 'infidel' of the 
> United States of De-civilization. Because I know I
> was told I was such one 
> in the country where you, and many of you, were
> born.
> xha
> >From: Endri Leno <endril at rocketmail.com>
> >To: albsa-info at alb-net.com
> >Subject: Re: [ALBSA-Info] NYTimes.com Article:
> Seizing Dictatorial Power
> >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:25:15 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >           ----------- ALBSA-Info Mailing List
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> >           - ALBSA Web Site:
> http://www.albstudent.com/albsa -
> >
> >Even though Mr. Protopapa is addressing the “fact
> >presenter” rather harshly, I think, that he is
> >undoubtedly right.
> >The facts, and interpretations that XHA sends to
> the
> >list are generally one sided, and their aim seems
> to
> >be the denigration of the US President and his
> >policies.
> >These views are usually typical of the
> >neocommunist-environmentalist (pseudo ecologist)
> >hippies of Harvard and Central Squares. For those
> who
> >don't know what I am talking about, these are the
> >people who handout anti-government leaflets and
> stalk
> >others to sign their petitions in every train
> station.
> >The problem with these people is that even though
> >sometimes they might be right, they never present a
> >clear solution to the problems they are complaining
> >about.
> >These people fail to recognize the fact that
> without
> >the imperialist and expansionist Western politics,
> >which sometimes are by the way, the world would
> have
> >never gotten past the stone age.  These people
> >criticize the imperialist policies and at the same
> >time enjoy the benefits that resulted from these
> >policies.
> >This standing not only makes them as "guilty" as
> the
> >US President is, but also makes them hypocrites at
> the
> >same time.
> >Endri Leno
> >
> >
> >--- jetkoti at hotmail.com wrote:
> > >           ----------- ALBSA-Info Mailing List
> > > ---------
> > >           - ALBSA Web Site:
> > > http://www.albstudent.com/albsa -
> > >
> > > This article from NYTimes.com
> > > has been sent to you by jetkoti at hotmail.com.
> > >
> > >
> > > Exclusively from the New York Times for Sejfi
> > > Protopapa.
> > >
> > > Being that Mr. Protopapa accused me not very
> long
> > > ago that I am
> > > "hell bent to tell members of ALBSA that America
> is
> > > a Fascist country and that President Bush is the
> > > Dictator."
> > > Or that,
> > > "You, Ms Agolli are using ALBSA to PROPAGATE
> YOUR
> > > NOTIONS of fascists America and the dictatorial
> Mr.
> > > Bush."
> > >
> > > I feel therefore obliged to tell Mr. Protopapa
> that
> > > it's not that I'm trying to propagate notions,
> even
> > > less MY notions, but simply present facts and
> > > interpretations of those facts, if need be.
> > > Corteously,
> > > XhA
> > >
> > > jetkoti at hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Seizing Dictatorial Power
> > >
> > > November 15, 2001
> > >
> > > By WILLIAM SAFIRE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON -- Misadvised by a frustrated and
> > > panic-stricken
> > > attorney general, a president of the United
> States
> > > has just
> > > assumed what amounts to dictatorial power to
> jail or
> > > execute aliens. Intimidated by terrorists and
> > > inflamed by a
> > > passion for rough justice, we are letting George
> W.
> > > Bush
> > > get away with the replacement of the American
> rule
> > > of law
> > > with military kangaroo courts.
> > >
> > > In his infamous emergency order, Bush admits to
> > > dismissing
> > > "the principles of law and the rules of
> evidence"
> > > that
> > > undergird America's system of justice. He seizes
> the
> > > power
> > > to circumvent the courts and set up his own
> drumhead
> > > tribunals - panels of officers who will sit in
> > > judgment of
> > > non-citizens who the president need only claim
> > > "reason to
> > > believe" are members of terrorist organizations.
> > >
> > > Not content with his previous decision to permit
> > > police to
> > > eavesdrop on a suspect's conversations with an
> > > attorney,
> > > Bush now strips the alien accused of even the
> > > limited
> > > rights afforded by a court-martial.
> > >
> > > His kangaroo court can conceal evidence by
> citing
> > > national
> > > security, make up its own rules, find a
> defendant
> > > guilty
> > > even if a third of the officers disagree, and
> > > execute the
> > > alien with no review by any civilian court.
> > >
> > > No longer does the judicial branch and an
> > > independent jury
> > > stand between the government and the accused. In
> > > lieu of
> > > those checks and balances central to our legal
> > > system,
> > > non-citizens face an executive that is now
> > > investigator,
> > > prosecutor, judge, jury and jailer or
> executioner.
> > > In an
> > > Orwellian twist, Bush's order calls this
> > > Soviet-style
> > > abomination "a full and fair trial."
> > >
> > > On what legal meat does this our Caesar feed?
> One
> > > precedent
> > > the White House cites is a military court after
> > > Lincoln's
> > > assassination. (During the Civil War, Lincoln
> > > suspended
> > > habeas corpus; does our war on terror require
> > > illegal
> > > imprisonment next?) Another is a military
> court's
> > > hanging,
> > > approved by the Supreme Court, of German
> saboteurs
> > > landed
> > > by submarine in World War II.
> > >
> > > Proponents of Bush's kangaroo court say: Don't
> you
> > > soft-on-terror, due-process types know there's a
> war
> > > on?
> > > Have you forgotten our 5,000 civilian dead? In
> an
> > > emergency
> > > like this, aren't extraordinary security
> measures
> > > needed to
> > > save citizens' lives? If we step on a few toes,
> we
> > > can
> > > apologize to the civil libertarians later.
> > >
> > > Those are the arguments of the phony-tough. At a
> > > time when
> > > even liberals are debating the ethics of torture
> of
> > > suspects - weighing the distaste for barbarism
> > > against the
> > > need to save innocent lives - it's time for
> > > conservative
> > > iconoclasts and card-carrying hard-liners to
> stand
> > > up for
> > > American values.
> > >
> > > To meet a terrorist emergency, of course some
> rules
> > > should
> > > be stretched and new laws passed. An ethnic
> dragnet
> > > rounding up visa-skippers or questioning foreign
> > > students,
> > > if short-term, is borderline tolerable.
> Congress's
> > > new law
> > > permitting warranted roving wiretaps is
> > > understandable.
> > >
> > > But let's get to the target that this
> blunderbuss
> > > order is
> > > intended to hit. Here's the big worry in
> Washington
> > > now:
> > > What do we do if Osama bin Laden gives himself
> up? A
> > > proper
> > > trial like that Israel afforded Adolf Eichmann,
> it
> > > is
> > > feared, would give the terrorist a global
> propaganda
> > > platform. Worse, it would be likely to result in
> > > widespread
> > > hostage-taking by his followers to protect him
> from
> > > the
> > > punishment he deserves.
> > >
> > > The solution is not to corrupt our judicial
> > > tradition by
> > > making bin Laden the star of a new Star Chamber.
> The
> > > solution is to turn his cave into his crypt.
> When
> > > fleeing
> > > Taliban reveal his whereabouts, our bombers
> should
> > > promptly
> > > bid him farewell with 15,000-pound daisy-cutters
> and
> > > 5,000-pound rock-penetrators.
> > >
> > > But what if he broadcasts his intent to
> surrender,
> > > and
> > > walks toward us under a white flag? It is not in
> our
> > > tradition to shoot prisoners. Rather, President
> Bush
> > > should
> > > now set forth a policy of "universal surrender":
> all
> > > of Al
> > > Qaeda or none. Selective surrender of one or a
> dozen
> > > leaders - which would leave cells in Afghanistan
> and
> > > elsewhere free to fight on - is unacceptable. We
> > > should
> > > continue our bombardment of bin Laden's hideouts
> > > until he
> > > agrees to identify and surrender his entire
> > > terrorist
> > > force.
> > >
> > > If he does, our criminal courts can handle them
> > > expeditiously. If, as more likely, the primary
> > > terrorist
> > > prefers what he thinks of as martyrdom, that
> > > suicidal
> > > choice would be his - and Americans would have
> no
> > > need of
> > > kangaroo courts to betray our principles of
> justice.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/15/opinion/15SAFI.html?ex=1006855557&ei=1&en=454d0209d9782e61
> > >
> > >
> > >
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