From xhuliana at usa.net  Mon Dec  4 02:54:48 2000
From: xhuliana at usa.net (Xh.A.)
Date: 4 Dec 00 02:54:48 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: petiton
Message-ID: <20001204075448.26211.qmail@nwcst314.netaddress.usa.net>

Era,
I'm sorry but why is that you say 'for women only'? Are women only
asked/supposed to sign that petition?because I noticed that there are
signatures by men as well on it. And I was wondering whether the purpose of
the petition wouldn't become more easily realizeable if the venerated men of
Alb-club such as but not limited to zealots like Ermal Abdul, Olsi and Kanina
did also sign and distribute it rather than quicly press the delete
button(It's very easy to get rid of nuisances of this kind, isn't it?). This
would not only increase the number of signatures but it would also add
something more to it...I hope you know what I mean.  

xh.a.

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1


From nfn18405 at naples.net  Mon Dec  4 10:49:49 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:49:49 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition ! (only for women) (fwd. message)
References: <a3.ecbe0f7.275c53b9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003801c05e0a$059af860$86bfa0cd@computer>

A ka mundesi ndonjeri te na sjelli fakte me konkrete,sepse ne internet eshte
nje web site i nje fotografi francez qe ka vizituar Afghanistanin,dhe ka
thene qe nuk ka shtypje te grave ne afghanistan.
Vetem beni search per afghanistan pier me duket se e ka emrin ai fotografi.
Une nuk mendoj se kjo ka te beje shume me grate sesa ka qe te ulet Islam e
ta paraqesin si fe ekstermiste.
Pse keto gra nuk ngrihen per grate ne checheni qe po perdhunohen e vriten
nga ruset perdite?
Apo kane vendimin e papes qe tha per grate qe kishin ngelur shtatezene nga
perdhunimet ne bosnje nga serbet qe le ti lene femijet e ti rrisin se te
gjithe jane femije te Zotit.
Une nuk po them qe raste te ketilla nuk ndodhin por ne radhe te pare
shoqeria amerikane le te kontrolloje numrin e abuzimeve te grave te veta e
ndarjeve e perdhunimeve e prostitucionit.
Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte normale.prandaj amerikanet
po ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te afghanistanit.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Era18 at aol.com>
To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 5:56 PM
Subject: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition ! (only for women) (fwd.
message)


>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>
> From:  Kenneth Altman <kennyaltman at yahoo.com>
> To:  Allan Altman <musicallan at aol.com>
> Subject:  For your consideration
> Date:  Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:49:48 -0800 (PST)
>
> Dear friends and family - I normally don't do this
> sort of thing, but in this case I believe it is
> warranted.  I saw a show on this subject on "Oprah"
> over the summer and it stayed with me for quite some
> time - perhaps signing this petition can help somewhat
> - I'm sure it couldnt' hurt.
>
> Thanks for your time and your consideration,
>
> Kenny Altman
> _________
>
> Please read this and keep it going..maybe we can
> make a
> difference....
> >
> > If you decide not to forward this, please send it to
> sarabande at brandeis.edu.
> > This is an actual petition, and "signatures" will be
> lost if you drop
> the
> line.
> >
> >
> > Dear Friends, Please do not ignore this email.
> > This is something that we as human beings need to
> support - I
> > don't know if
> > this is going to help but please take 3 minutes out
> of
> > your life to do your part.
> >
> > Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging a
> > war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in
> > 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been
> > beaten and stoned in public for not having the
> > proper attire, even if this means simply not
> > having the mesh covering in front of their eyes.
> >
> > One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of
> > fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her
> > arm(!) while she was driving. Another was stoned
> > to death for trying to leave the country
> > with a man that was not a relative.
> >
> > Women are not allowed to work or even go out in
> > public without a male relative; professional
> > women such as professors, translators, doctors,
> > lawyers, artists and writers have been forced
> > from their jobs and stuffed into their homes.
> > Homes where a woman is present must have their
> > windows painted so that she can never be seen by
> > outsiders They must wear silent
> >
> > shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in
> >
> > fear of their lives for the slightest
> > misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those
> > without male
> > relatives or husbands are either starving to
> > death or begging on the street,
> > even if they hold Ph.D.s.
> >
> > Depression is becoming so widespread that it has
> >
> > reached emergency levels.There is no way in such
> > an extreme Islamic society to know the
> > suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers
> > are estimating that the suicide rate among women
> > must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot
> > find proper medication and treatment for severe
> > depression and would rather take their lives than
> > live in such conditions.
> >
> > At one of the rare hospitals for women, a
> > reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies
> > lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their
> > burqua, unwilling to speak,eat, or do anything,
> > but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and
> > were seen crouched in corners, perpetually
> > rocking or crying, most of them in fear.
> >
> > When what little medication that is left finally
> > runs out, one doctor is considering leaving these
> > women in front of the president's residence as a
> > form of protest.
> >
> > It is at the point where the term "human rights
> > violations" has become an understatement.
> > Husbands have the power of life and death over
> > their
> > women relatives, especially their wives, but an
> > angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat
> > a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of
> > flesh or offending them in the slightest way.
> >
> > Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to dress
> > generally as they wanted, and to drive and appear
> > in public alone until only 1996.
> >
> > The rapidity of this transition is the main
> > reason for the depression and suicide; Women who
> > were once educators or doctors or simply used to
> > basic human freedoms are now severely restricted
> > and treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing
> > fundamentalist Islam.
> >
> > It is not their tradition or 'culture,' but it
> > is alien to them, and it is extreme even for
> > those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule.
> > Everyone has a right to a tolerable human
> > existence, even if they are women in a Muslim
> > country.
> >
> > If we can threaten military force in Kosovo the
> > name of human rights for the sake of ethnic
> > Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly
> > express peaceful outrage at the oppression,
> > murder and injustice committed against women by
> > the Taliban.
> >
> > STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the
> > current treatment of women in Afghanistan is
> > completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by
> > the United Nations and that the current situation
> >
> > overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights is
> > not a small issue anywhere, and it is
> > UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2000 to be treated as
> > subhuman and as so much property. Equality and
> > human decency is a fundamental RIGHT, not
> > a freedom to be granted, whether one lives in
> > Afghanistan or elsewhere.
> >
> >
> > 1) Giuliana D. Black, Daly City, CA, USA
> > 2) Mariam Nayiny, Palo Alto, CA, USA
> > 3) Sunaina Gulati-Ruh, Palo Alto, CA USA
> > 4) Megan McCaslin, Palo Alto, CA USA
> > 5) Blake Hallanan, San Francisco, Ca. USA
> > 6) Kit Henderson, Sacramento, CA USA
> > 7) Kara Myers, San Francisco, CA
> > 8) Ellen Tilden, San Fransisco, CA
> > 9) Vanessa Ross, San Francisco, CA
> > 10) Jenna Shaw- Battista, San Francisco, CA
> > 11) Jeanne Racik, Berkeley, CA
> > 12) Julie Silas, Oakland, CA
> > 13) Renee Longstreet, Tarzana, CA
> > 14) Susan Johnson, Encino, CA
> > 15) Kenneth Johnson, Encino, CA
> > 16) Terri Treas, Los Angeles, CA
> > 17) Amy Retzinger, North Hollywood, CA
> > 18) Babette Crooms, Los Angeles, CA
> > 19) Olivia Kienzel; Santa Barbara, CA
> > 20) Sean Dexheimer, Los Angeles, CA
> > 21) Elio Chavez, Jr., Pasadena, CA
> > 22) Gregory Kastigar, Los Angeles, CA
> > 23) Robert Collie, Los Angeles, CA
> > 24) Jeff Garvin, Brea, CA
> > 25) Tricia Allen, Sherman Oaks, CA
> > 26) Joleen Nordstrom ~ Hollywood, CA
> > 27) Theresa Donahoe - Martinez,CA
> > 28) Jennifer Horn - Concord, CA
> > 29) Roxanne Ryan - Alamo, CA
> > 30) Miriam Tyler- San Jose CA
> > 31) John Burns- San Jose CA
> > 32) Kristin Lynn Minick- Fort Worth TX
> > 33) Jeff Neal- Marietta, GA
> > 34) Anna Neal- Marietta, GA
> > 35) Frances Murley-Fort Worth, TX
> > 36) David Murley-London, England, UK
> > 37) Jillian Dykhouse, Colleyville, TX
> > 38) Bonnie Dykhouse,Colleyville,TX
> > 39) Nancy Williams, Colleyville, TX
> > 40) Georgene Farr, Sterling Heights, MI
> > 41) Joanne Arensberg, Riverview, MI
> > 42) Luann Ouellette, Vermillion, SD
> > 43) Sandie Sullivan, Vermillion, SD
> > 44) Troy Nelson, Minneapolis, MN USA
> > 45) Joseph Miller, Minnepolis, MN USA
> > 46) Kathleen Miller, White Bear Lake, MN USA
> > 47) Jerry Marquis, Mpls. Mn. USA
> > 48) Julie Stokes, Coon Rapids, MN USA
> > 49) Tracy Ford, Blaine, MN USA
> > 50) Sheila Lawrence, Monticello, MN USA
> > 51) Brenda Kitchen, Westlake Village,
> > California,USA
> > 52)Teresa Burke, Sherman Oaks, CA, USA
> > 53) Bruce Ehrlich, Sherman Oaks, CA USA
> > 54) Yllania Francis, Los Angeles, CA USA
> > 55) Drew Hedin, Los Angeles, CA USA
> > 56) Laura Paridon, Laguna Woods, CA USA
> > 57) Jeanie Hagedorn, Des Moines, IA USA
> > 58) Sue Christensen, Des Moines, IA USA
> > 59) Sybil Finken, Glenwood, IA USA
> > 60) Luke Finken, Earth
> > 61) Doug Gerace, Lincoln, NE USA
> > 62) Cheryl Gerace, NE
> > 63) Sheri Lew, CO
> > 64) Raven Grace, Boulder, CO
> > 65) Martha M.Mertz, EL, Michigan
> > 66) Colleen R. Cooper, Okemos, Michigan
> > 67) Barbara J. Sawyer-Koch, East Lansing, MI
> > 68) Margaret A. Meyers, Okemos, Michigan
> > 69) Mary Helen Espes, Okemos, Michigan
> > 70) Maureen Kirchhoff, Allenspark, CO
> > 71) Bart Johnson, Err, France
> > 72) Sara Rahmanian, Wageningen, Netherlands
> > 73) Raymond Besems, Wageningen, Netherlands
> > 74) Rik van Keulen, Kathmandu, Nepal
> > 75) Silvie Walraven, Kathmandu, Nepal
> > 76) Shannon McGinnis, Boulder Creek, California
> > 77) Benjamin Worden, Santa Barbara, California
> > 78) Brenda Beeley, Suquamish, Washington
> > 79. Lisa Siegel, Bainbridge Island, Washington
> > 80) Ellen Epstein, Bremerton, Washington
> > 81) Robin Pichahchy, Hoodsport, Washington
> > 82) Camille Speck, Port Townsend WA
> > 83) Theresa Powell, Port Angeles WA
> > 84) Selena Fraser, San Diego, CA
> > 85) Betsy Well, Washington D.C.
> > 86) Betsy Freeman, Stafford, Virginia
> > 87) Priscilla A. Fink, Falls Church, VA
> > 88) Minh Ta, San Francisco, CA
> > 89) David Metts, Gainesville, FL
> > 90) Tiffany Slay, Atlanta, GA - for a peaceful
> > protest only.
> > 91) Kathy Sanders, London, UK
> > 92) Lorraine Evans, Houston, TX
> > 93) Gavin Juniper, San Francisco, CA
> > 94) Sarah Murray, San Francisco, CA
> > 95) Annette Eriksen, San Francisco, CA
> > 96) Lesha Harding, Petaluma CA
> > 97) Annette Grossi, Novato, CA
> > 98) Carol Ryan, Healdsburg, CA
> > 99) Andrea Scott, Walnut Creek, CA
> >100) Cynthia Scott, New Orleans, LA
> 101. Neema Dickey, San Diego, CA
> 102. Carol Smith-Passariello, NY
> 103. Malcolm D. Lee, NY
> 104. Lisa Brown, CA
> 105. Michele Wernick, CA
> 106. Jennafer Carlin, NY
> 107.  Kenneth J. Altman, San Francisco, CA
> 108. Amilda Dymi, New York
> 109. Diana Ndrenika, Tirana, Albania
> 110. Nathalie Polese, New York
> 111. Michelle Laurent-Rella, New York
> 112. Jessica Maini, New York
> 113. Patty Taylor, New York
> 114. Mimi Flores, New York
> 115. Kay J. Wight, New York
> 116. Era Makoci, New York
> >
> >
> > DIRECTIONS:
> >
> > PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message, sign
> > the bottom and Forward it to everyone on your
> > distribution lists. If you receive this list With
> > more than 300 names on it, please e-mail a copy
> > of it to: sarabande at brandeis.edu
> >
> > Even if you decide not to sign, please be
> > considerate and do not kill the petition.
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
>



From albaa19 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  4 09:24:04 2000
From: albaa19 at hotmail.com (M. S.)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:24:04 -0500
Subject: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition ! (only for women) (fwd. message)
Message-ID: <F110qC5EtrUVYKkpLTk0000d618@hotmail.com>

Bjeri murrit me koke 2040 here dhe prape mos gjej trullosje aq te madhe sa 
te besosh...te besosh se....O zot thone se dikur nje popull i mecur ka thene 
Cmendurine dhe Gjenialitetin i ndan nje vije shume e holle, paskan qene 
gabim....i ndan nje humnere aq e gjere sa ska mendim...ide..po ndienje ta 
kaperceje.

Faleminderit Ervin qe me bere te ndihem "femer" perseri....vetem pasi lexoj 
mesazhe te tilla e kuptoj domethenien e te qenit e tille.

M.S.


>From: "ervin" <nfn18405 at naples.net>
>Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
>Subject: Re: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition ! (only for women) (fwd. 
>message)
>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:49:49 -0800
>
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>A ka mundesi ndonjeri te na sjelli fakte me konkrete,sepse ne internet 
>eshte
>nje web site i nje fotografi francez qe ka vizituar Afghanistanin,dhe ka
>thene qe nuk ka shtypje te grave ne afghanistan.
>Vetem beni search per afghanistan pier me duket se e ka emrin ai fotografi.
>Une nuk mendoj se kjo ka te beje shume me grate sesa ka qe te ulet Islam e
>ta paraqesin si fe ekstermiste.
>Pse keto gra nuk ngrihen per grate ne checheni qe po perdhunohen e vriten
>nga ruset perdite?
>Apo kane vendimin e papes qe tha per grate qe kishin ngelur shtatezene nga
>perdhunimet ne bosnje nga serbet qe le ti lene femijet e ti rrisin se te
>gjithe jane femije te Zotit.
>Une nuk po them qe raste te ketilla nuk ndodhin por ne radhe te pare
>shoqeria amerikane le te kontrolloje numrin e abuzimeve te grave te veta e
>ndarjeve e perdhunimeve e prostitucionit.
>Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte normale.prandaj 
>amerikanet
>po ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te afghanistanit.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Era18 at aol.com>
>To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 5:56 PM
>Subject: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition ! (only for women) (fwd.
>message)
>
>
> >                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  Kenneth Altman <kennyaltman at yahoo.com>
> > To:  Allan Altman <musicallan at aol.com>
> > Subject:  For your consideration
> > Date:  Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:49:48 -0800 (PST)
> >
> > Dear friends and family - I normally don't do this
> > sort of thing, but in this case I believe it is
> > warranted.  I saw a show on this subject on "Oprah"
> > over the summer and it stayed with me for quite some
> > time - perhaps signing this petition can help somewhat
> > - I'm sure it couldnt' hurt.
> >
> > Thanks for your time and your consideration,
> >
> > Kenny Altman
> > _________
> >
> > Please read this and keep it going..maybe we can
> > make a
> > difference....
> > >
> > > If you decide not to forward this, please send it to
> > sarabande at brandeis.edu.
> > > This is an actual petition, and "signatures" will be
> > lost if you drop
> > the
> > line.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Friends, Please do not ignore this email.
> > > This is something that we as human beings need to
> > support - I
> > > don't know if
> > > this is going to help but please take 3 minutes out
> > of
> > > your life to do your part.
> > >
> > > Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging a
> > > war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in
> > > 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been
> > > beaten and stoned in public for not having the
> > > proper attire, even if this means simply not
> > > having the mesh covering in front of their eyes.
> > >
> > > One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of
> > > fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her
> > > arm(!) while she was driving. Another was stoned
> > > to death for trying to leave the country
> > > with a man that was not a relative.
> > >
> > > Women are not allowed to work or even go out in
> > > public without a male relative; professional
> > > women such as professors, translators, doctors,
> > > lawyers, artists and writers have been forced
> > > from their jobs and stuffed into their homes.
> > > Homes where a woman is present must have their
> > > windows painted so that she can never be seen by
> > > outsiders They must wear silent
> > >
> > > shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in
> > >
> > > fear of their lives for the slightest
> > > misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those
> > > without male
> > > relatives or husbands are either starving to
> > > death or begging on the street,
> > > even if they hold Ph.D.s.
> > >
> > > Depression is becoming so widespread that it has
> > >
> > > reached emergency levels.There is no way in such
> > > an extreme Islamic society to know the
> > > suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers
> > > are estimating that the suicide rate among women
> > > must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot
> > > find proper medication and treatment for severe
> > > depression and would rather take their lives than
> > > live in such conditions.
> > >
> > > At one of the rare hospitals for women, a
> > > reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies
> > > lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their
> > > burqua, unwilling to speak,eat, or do anything,
> > > but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and
> > > were seen crouched in corners, perpetually
> > > rocking or crying, most of them in fear.
> > >
> > > When what little medication that is left finally
> > > runs out, one doctor is considering leaving these
> > > women in front of the president's residence as a
> > > form of protest.
> > >
> > > It is at the point where the term "human rights
> > > violations" has become an understatement.
> > > Husbands have the power of life and death over
> > > their
> > > women relatives, especially their wives, but an
> > > angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat
> > > a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of
> > > flesh or offending them in the slightest way.
> > >
> > > Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to dress
> > > generally as they wanted, and to drive and appear
> > > in public alone until only 1996.
> > >
> > > The rapidity of this transition is the main
> > > reason for the depression and suicide; Women who
> > > were once educators or doctors or simply used to
> > > basic human freedoms are now severely restricted
> > > and treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing
> > > fundamentalist Islam.
> > >
> > > It is not their tradition or 'culture,' but it
> > > is alien to them, and it is extreme even for
> > > those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule.
> > > Everyone has a right to a tolerable human
> > > existence, even if they are women in a Muslim
> > > country.
> > >
> > > If we can threaten military force in Kosovo the
> > > name of human rights for the sake of ethnic
> > > Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly
> > > express peaceful outrage at the oppression,
> > > murder and injustice committed against women by
> > > the Taliban.
> > >
> > > STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the
> > > current treatment of women in Afghanistan is
> > > completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by
> > > the United Nations and that the current situation
> > >
> > > overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights is
> > > not a small issue anywhere, and it is
> > > UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2000 to be treated as
> > > subhuman and as so much property. Equality and
> > > human decency is a fundamental RIGHT, not
> > > a freedom to be granted, whether one lives in
> > > Afghanistan or elsewhere.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) Giuliana D. Black, Daly City, CA, USA
> > > 2) Mariam Nayiny, Palo Alto, CA, USA
> > > 3) Sunaina Gulati-Ruh, Palo Alto, CA USA
> > > 4) Megan McCaslin, Palo Alto, CA USA
> > > 5) Blake Hallanan, San Francisco, Ca. USA
> > > 6) Kit Henderson, Sacramento, CA USA
> > > 7) Kara Myers, San Francisco, CA
> > > 8) Ellen Tilden, San Fransisco, CA
> > > 9) Vanessa Ross, San Francisco, CA
> > > 10) Jenna Shaw- Battista, San Francisco, CA
> > > 11) Jeanne Racik, Berkeley, CA
> > > 12) Julie Silas, Oakland, CA
> > > 13) Renee Longstreet, Tarzana, CA
> > > 14) Susan Johnson, Encino, CA
> > > 15) Kenneth Johnson, Encino, CA
> > > 16) Terri Treas, Los Angeles, CA
> > > 17) Amy Retzinger, North Hollywood, CA
> > > 18) Babette Crooms, Los Angeles, CA
> > > 19) Olivia Kienzel; Santa Barbara, CA
> > > 20) Sean Dexheimer, Los Angeles, CA
> > > 21) Elio Chavez, Jr., Pasadena, CA
> > > 22) Gregory Kastigar, Los Angeles, CA
> > > 23) Robert Collie, Los Angeles, CA
> > > 24) Jeff Garvin, Brea, CA
> > > 25) Tricia Allen, Sherman Oaks, CA
> > > 26) Joleen Nordstrom ~ Hollywood, CA
> > > 27) Theresa Donahoe - Martinez,CA
> > > 28) Jennifer Horn - Concord, CA
> > > 29) Roxanne Ryan - Alamo, CA
> > > 30) Miriam Tyler- San Jose CA
> > > 31) John Burns- San Jose CA
> > > 32) Kristin Lynn Minick- Fort Worth TX
> > > 33) Jeff Neal- Marietta, GA
> > > 34) Anna Neal- Marietta, GA
> > > 35) Frances Murley-Fort Worth, TX
> > > 36) David Murley-London, England, UK
> > > 37) Jillian Dykhouse, Colleyville, TX
> > > 38) Bonnie Dykhouse,Colleyville,TX
> > > 39) Nancy Williams, Colleyville, TX
> > > 40) Georgene Farr, Sterling Heights, MI
> > > 41) Joanne Arensberg, Riverview, MI
> > > 42) Luann Ouellette, Vermillion, SD
> > > 43) Sandie Sullivan, Vermillion, SD
> > > 44) Troy Nelson, Minneapolis, MN USA
> > > 45) Joseph Miller, Minnepolis, MN USA
> > > 46) Kathleen Miller, White Bear Lake, MN USA
> > > 47) Jerry Marquis, Mpls. Mn. USA
> > > 48) Julie Stokes, Coon Rapids, MN USA
> > > 49) Tracy Ford, Blaine, MN USA
> > > 50) Sheila Lawrence, Monticello, MN USA
> > > 51) Brenda Kitchen, Westlake Village,
> > > California,USA
> > > 52)Teresa Burke, Sherman Oaks, CA, USA
> > > 53) Bruce Ehrlich, Sherman Oaks, CA USA
> > > 54) Yllania Francis, Los Angeles, CA USA
> > > 55) Drew Hedin, Los Angeles, CA USA
> > > 56) Laura Paridon, Laguna Woods, CA USA
> > > 57) Jeanie Hagedorn, Des Moines, IA USA
> > > 58) Sue Christensen, Des Moines, IA USA
> > > 59) Sybil Finken, Glenwood, IA USA
> > > 60) Luke Finken, Earth
> > > 61) Doug Gerace, Lincoln, NE USA
> > > 62) Cheryl Gerace, NE
> > > 63) Sheri Lew, CO
> > > 64) Raven Grace, Boulder, CO
> > > 65) Martha M.Mertz, EL, Michigan
> > > 66) Colleen R. Cooper, Okemos, Michigan
> > > 67) Barbara J. Sawyer-Koch, East Lansing, MI
> > > 68) Margaret A. Meyers, Okemos, Michigan
> > > 69) Mary Helen Espes, Okemos, Michigan
> > > 70) Maureen Kirchhoff, Allenspark, CO
> > > 71) Bart Johnson, Err, France
> > > 72) Sara Rahmanian, Wageningen, Netherlands
> > > 73) Raymond Besems, Wageningen, Netherlands
> > > 74) Rik van Keulen, Kathmandu, Nepal
> > > 75) Silvie Walraven, Kathmandu, Nepal
> > > 76) Shannon McGinnis, Boulder Creek, California
> > > 77) Benjamin Worden, Santa Barbara, California
> > > 78) Brenda Beeley, Suquamish, Washington
> > > 79. Lisa Siegel, Bainbridge Island, Washington
> > > 80) Ellen Epstein, Bremerton, Washington
> > > 81) Robin Pichahchy, Hoodsport, Washington
> > > 82) Camille Speck, Port Townsend WA
> > > 83) Theresa Powell, Port Angeles WA
> > > 84) Selena Fraser, San Diego, CA
> > > 85) Betsy Well, Washington D.C.
> > > 86) Betsy Freeman, Stafford, Virginia
> > > 87) Priscilla A. Fink, Falls Church, VA
> > > 88) Minh Ta, San Francisco, CA
> > > 89) David Metts, Gainesville, FL
> > > 90) Tiffany Slay, Atlanta, GA - for a peaceful
> > > protest only.
> > > 91) Kathy Sanders, London, UK
> > > 92) Lorraine Evans, Houston, TX
> > > 93) Gavin Juniper, San Francisco, CA
> > > 94) Sarah Murray, San Francisco, CA
> > > 95) Annette Eriksen, San Francisco, CA
> > > 96) Lesha Harding, Petaluma CA
> > > 97) Annette Grossi, Novato, CA
> > > 98) Carol Ryan, Healdsburg, CA
> > > 99) Andrea Scott, Walnut Creek, CA
> > >100) Cynthia Scott, New Orleans, LA
> > 101. Neema Dickey, San Diego, CA
> > 102. Carol Smith-Passariello, NY
> > 103. Malcolm D. Lee, NY
> > 104. Lisa Brown, CA
> > 105. Michele Wernick, CA
> > 106. Jennafer Carlin, NY
> > 107.  Kenneth J. Altman, San Francisco, CA
> > 108. Amilda Dymi, New York
> > 109. Diana Ndrenika, Tirana, Albania
> > 110. Nathalie Polese, New York
> > 111. Michelle Laurent-Rella, New York
> > 112. Jessica Maini, New York
> > 113. Patty Taylor, New York
> > 114. Mimi Flores, New York
> > 115. Kay J. Wight, New York
> > 116. Era Makoci, New York
> > >
> > >
> > > DIRECTIONS:
> > >
> > > PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message, sign
> > > the bottom and Forward it to everyone on your
> > > distribution lists. If you receive this list With
> > > more than 300 names on it, please e-mail a copy
> > > of it to: sarabande at brandeis.edu
> > >
> > > Even if you decide not to sign, please be
> > > considerate and do not kill the petition.
> > ***Alb-Club***
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
> >
>
>***Alb-Club***
>____________________________________________________
>Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
>http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club

_____________________________________________________________________________________
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From zenepja at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  4 11:40:04 2000
From: zenepja at hotmail.com (Zenepe Sammy)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:40:04 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Kompleksi i vrimes se celesit
Message-ID: <F145pshfHWF2RIhYTeG0000ad85@hotmail.com>

"Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte normale.prandaj 
amerikanetpo ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te afghanistanit."

uuu more evlat, se na lemerise me keto historite me 5 dashnore. Po ti more 
derman nga i di keto historite apo edhe ti ish-anetar i forcave te VLAT 
(Vuajerat tek liqeni artificial Tirane) i graduar si VCPNYC (Vuajer i 
Central Park New York City), qe fshihen mbas pemeve dhe ju mban shenim 
pasthirmat njerezve kur e bejne ne rruge? Apo sheh enderra pornografike ti 
dhe jua vesh amerikaneve sepse te duket se behesh me i mire. Po mos u 
merzit, more bir se nuk ke faj. I ri je, dhe te levrin adrenalina ne gjak. E 
coku te rrefejne ndonje histori shoket e tu qe e kafshojne mollen mbasi 
mbyllin kuranin dhe eksitohesh. I ka jeta keto, more bir, i kane provuar 
edhe te tjere perpara teje keto gjera. Se burrat shqiptare, burra hesapi 
jane: politike dhe sex mbrockullitin tere diten e perendise dhe asnjeren nuk 
dine ta bejne tamam. Prandaj dhe kane investuar ne llapen e gjate, thoshte i 
ndjeri im gjysh, Suloja. Dhe shko lecit paditurine bir i perendise, ne vend 
qe te gjermosh njerezit e botes nga mbrapa. Se muslimanizmi nuk eshte 
Talihbani derman, se ai nuk eshte vecse dreqi me forma njeriu. Dhe nese 
muslimanet mburren me nje qe vetem format i ka njerezore, me nje djall qe 
predikon me kallashnikov, ju nuk beni vetem se ja afroni diten e harakirise 
te madhit zot atje ne qiell, qe ndoshta vetem ideja qe ai i paftyre qe i ka 
lyer duart me gjakun e te pafajshme do i trokasi ne dere nje dite ja ka 
kallur kancerin.

Z.

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From ermal_a at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 14:15:39 2000
From: ermal_a at yahoo.com (Ermal Abdi)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 11:15:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition ! (only for women) (fwd. message)
Message-ID: <20001204191539.10667.qmail@web4106.mail.yahoo.com>

Me te vertete do te deshiroja pergjigje prej ketyre
"free women" te cilat ngelen duke bere "propagande"
indirekte kundra Islamit dhe harrojne per grate
MUSLIMANE OSE ISLAMIKE te cilat perdhunohen dita dites
ne Ceceni, Kashmir dhe Filipine.  Po per keto gra kush
po e ngre zerin ne bote.  Jo vetem kaq por vendet e
korruptuara perendimore as qe i sulmojne keto krime
reale.  USA should at least condemn the crimes that
Russia is committing in Chechnya, but instead we don't
hear even a word from them.  Why?  If we are ALL so
worried about the freedom of women?  Pse Slobodani na
qenka "war criminal and wanted by the UN" ndersa
Yeltsin dhe Putin jane te lire?  A nuk kane bere mjaft
krime edhe keta ne Ceceni DY HERE?  Njehere ne 1995
dhe ne te tashmen?  Cfare drejtesije qe ka kjo bote...

Beni nje peticion ku te mbroni te drejta e grave
MUSLIMANE ne keto vende te botes.  Por nje gje te
tille nuk do ta beni KURRE...

Nderime
ermal ABDI

 
--- ervin <nfn18405 at naples.net> wrote:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> A ka mundesi ndonjeri te na sjelli fakte me
> konkrete,sepse ne internet eshte
> nje web site i nje fotografi francez qe ka vizituar
> Afghanistanin,dhe ka
> thene qe nuk ka shtypje te grave ne afghanistan.
> Vetem beni search per afghanistan pier me duket se e
> ka emrin ai fotografi.
> Une nuk mendoj se kjo ka te beje shume me grate sesa
> ka qe te ulet Islam e
> ta paraqesin si fe ekstermiste.
> Pse keto gra nuk ngrihen per grate ne checheni qe po
> perdhunohen e vriten
> nga ruset perdite?
> Apo kane vendimin e papes qe tha per grate qe kishin
> ngelur shtatezene nga
> perdhunimet ne bosnje nga serbet qe le ti lene
> femijet e ti rrisin se te
> gjithe jane femije te Zotit.
> Une nuk po them qe raste te ketilla nuk ndodhin por
> ne radhe te pare
> shoqeria amerikane le te kontrolloje numrin e
> abuzimeve te grave te veta e
> ndarjeve e perdhunimeve e prostitucionit.
> Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte
> normale.prandaj amerikanet
> po ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te
> afghanistanit.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Era18 at aol.com>
> To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 5:56 PM
> Subject: [Alb-club] Please sign this petition !
> (only for women) (fwd.
> message)
> 
> 
> >                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  Kenneth Altman <kennyaltman at yahoo.com>
> > To:  Allan Altman <musicallan at aol.com>
> > Subject:  For your consideration
> > Date:  Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:49:48 -0800 (PST)
> >
> > Dear friends and family - I normally don't do this
> > sort of thing, but in this case I believe it is
> > warranted.  I saw a show on this subject on
> "Oprah"
> > over the summer and it stayed with me for quite
> some
> > time - perhaps signing this petition can help
> somewhat
> > - I'm sure it couldnt' hurt.
> >
> > Thanks for your time and your consideration,
> >
> > Kenny Altman
> > _________
> >
> > Please read this and keep it going..maybe we can
> > make a
> > difference....
> > >
> > > If you decide not to forward this, please send
> it to
> > sarabande at brandeis.edu.
> > > This is an actual petition, and "signatures"
> will be
> > lost if you drop
> > the
> > line.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Friends, Please do not ignore this email.
> > > This is something that we as human beings need
> to
> > support - I
> > > don't know if
> > > this is going to help but please take 3 minutes
> out
> > of
> > > your life to do your part.
> > >
> > > Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging
> a
> > > war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in
> > > 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have
> been
> > > beaten and stoned in public for not having the
> > > proper attire, even if this means simply not
> > > having the mesh covering in front of their eyes.
> > >
> > > One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of
> > > fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her
> > > arm(!) while she was driving. Another was stoned
> > > to death for trying to leave the country
> > > with a man that was not a relative.
> > >
> > > Women are not allowed to work or even go out in
> > > public without a male relative; professional
> > > women such as professors, translators, doctors,
> > > lawyers, artists and writers have been forced
> > > from their jobs and stuffed into their homes.
> > > Homes where a woman is present must have their
> > > windows painted so that she can never be seen by
> > > outsiders They must wear silent
> > >
> > > shoes so that they are never heard. Women live
> in
> > >
> > > fear of their lives for the slightest
> > > misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those
> > > without male
> > > relatives or husbands are either starving to
> > > death or begging on the street,
> > > even if they hold Ph.D.s.
> > >
> > > Depression is becoming so widespread that it has
> > >
> > > reached emergency levels.There is no way in such
> > > an extreme Islamic society to know the
> > > suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers
> > > are estimating that the suicide rate among women
> > > must be extraordinarily high: those who cannot
> > > find proper medication and treatment for severe
> > > depression and would rather take their lives
> than
> > > live in such conditions.
> > >
> > > At one of the rare hospitals for women, a
> > > reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies
> > > lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in
> their
> > > burqua, unwilling to speak,eat, or do anything,
> > > but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad
> and
> > > were seen crouched in corners, perpetually
> > > rocking or crying, most of them in fear.
> > >
> > > When what little medication that is left finally
> > > runs out, one doctor is considering leaving
> these
> > > women in front of the president's residence as a
> > > form of protest.
> > >
> > > It is at the point where the term "human rights
> > > violations" has become an understatement.
> > > Husbands have the power of life and death over
> > > their
> > > women relatives, especially their wives, but an
> > > angry mob has just as much right to stone or
> beat
> > > a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of
> > > flesh or offending them in the slightest way.
> > >
> > > Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to
> dress
> > > generally as they wanted, and to drive and
> appear
> > > in public alone until only 1996.
> > >
> > > The rapidity of this transition is the main
> > > reason for the depression and suicide; Women who
> > > were once educators or doctors or simply used to
> > > basic human freedoms are now severely restricted
> > > and treated as subhuman in the name of
> right-wing
> > > fundamentalist Islam.
> > >
> > > It is not their tradition or 'culture,' but it
> > > is alien to them, and it is extreme even for
> > > those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule.
> > > Everyone has a right to a tolerable human
> > > existence, even if they are women in a Muslim
> > > country.
> > >
> > > If we can threaten military force in Kosovo the
> > > name of human rights for the sake of ethnic
> > > Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly
> > > express peaceful outrage at the oppression,
> > > murder and injustice committed against women by
> > > the Taliban.
> > >
> > > STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the
> > > current treatment of women in Afghanistan is
> > > completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves action by
> > > the United Nations and that the current
> situation
> > >
> > > overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights
> is
> > > not a small issue anywhere, and it is
> > > UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2000 to be treated as
> > > subhuman and as so much property. Equality and
> 
=== message truncated ===


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From LulzimShtino at aol.com  Mon Dec  4 16:23:11 2000
From: LulzimShtino at aol.com (LulzimShtino at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:23:11 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet
Message-ID: <c9.af879bf.275d653f@aol.com>

Propozoj qe te krijojme, brenda pajtimtareve te listes, nje Klub te Miqve te 
Afganistanit; ose me mire ta formalizojme ekzistencen e tij, pse klubi vete 
ka kohe qe vepron, madje edhe ne menyre te koordinuar. E kam fjalen per ata 
zoterinj qe hidhen perpjete sapo dikush merr guximin te permende Talibanet, 
ose gjendjen e mjeruar te gruas ne Afganistan; zoterinj qe duket sikur nuk i 
nxjerr dot nga letargjia asgje pervecse ndonje teme ose argumenti qe ata vete 
e perceptojne si ofensiv ndaj Islamit; keta te vetequajtur guardiane te fese 
se tyre, Don Kishote qe mbrojne me zjarr disa nga shemtite me te medha 
sociale qe ka pare historia e ketyre njezet vjeteve te fundit, dhe i mbrojne 
jo sepse ua thote zemra, por vetem ngaqe e quajne kete misionin e vet te 
shenjte. 

<< A ka mundesi ndonjeri te na sjelli fakte me konkrete, sepse ne internet 
eshte nje web site i nje fotografi francez qe ka vizituar Afghanistanin, dhe 
ka thene qe nuk ka shtypje te grave ne Afghanistan.>>

Keshtu thote z. Ervin, i cili, ashtu si disa afgane te tjere qe kemi ketu, 
kerkon qimen ne veze kur eshte fjala per te diskutuar dokumente qe 
PERCEPTOHEN si anti-islamike, ne nje kohe qe -- pa iu dredhur qerpiku -- na 
ka kerkuar te pranojme origjinen hyjnore te Kuranit, dhe shume mite te tjera 
te fese se vet. 

Perndryshe mua me duket se iu takon apologjeteve te Talibaneve ne liste qe te 
sjellin argumente shume te shendosha se ne Afganistan nuk ka dhune ndaj 
grave. Me e mira do te ishte te na percillnin ndonje peticion te 
intelektualeve afgane kunder keqtrajtimit te grave ne Perendim.

<< Vetem beni search per afghanistan Pier me duket se e ka emrin ai 
fotografi. >>

Po pse nuk e bere zotrote kete "search", qe te na vije me rezultate konkrete? 

<< Une nuk mendoj se kjo ka te beje shume me grate sesa ka qe te ulet Islam e 
ta paraqesin si fe ekstermiste.>>

Mos valle, sipas teje, sa here qe ngrihet zeri per ndonje problem shoqeror ne 
vendet ku feja mbizoteruese eshte Islami, qellimi i vertete eshte qe te 
denigrohet feja? Mos duhet te nxjerrim nga kjo qe ti vete, z. Ervin, kur i 
perqesh amerikanet me "pese dashnore", ne te vertete je duke sulmuar 
Krishterimin?

<< Pse keto gra nuk ngrihen per grate ne checheni qe po perdhunohen e vriten 
nga ruset perdite?>>

Pse nuk ngrihesh ti, z. Ervin, e te shkruash nje peticion kunder ketyre 
rasteve? Kush te ka penguar? As zelli nuk te mungon, as forumi se ku ta 
shpallesh peticionin. Une do te isha i pari qe do ta mbeshtetja, ashtu si, 
besoj, shume te tjere ketu ne liste. Sepse me kete logjiken tende nuk shkohet 
asgjekundi: po te guxoje ndokush te ngreje nje problem, do te hidhet ndonje 
alb-afgan dhe do te thote: pse nuk ngrini edhe kete problemin tjeter? 

<< Apo kane vendimin e papes qe tha per grate qe kishin ngelur shtatezene nga 
perdhunimet ne bosnje nga serbet qe le ti lene femijet e ti rrisin se te 
gjithe jane femije te Zotit.>>

Lere, c'e trazon kot Papen ne kete mesele. Nese ke ndermend ta cekesh kete 
problem (te grave te lena me barre gjate perdhunimeve nga ana e serbeve ne 
Bosnje e gjetke), shkruaj nje mesazh tjeter, sepse nuk me duket fare se ka 
lidhje me peticionin kunder Talibaneve. Pastaj, c'eshte ky "vendim" i Papes? 
Vertet ta merr mendja se Papa mund te marre vendime per grate myslimane te 
Bosnjes? Me fjale te tjera, e ke idene se cfare je duke shkruar, dhe se keto 
qyfyre t'i lexojne me mijera veta ketu? 

<< Une nuk po them qe raste te ketilla nuk ndodhin por ne radhe te pare 
shoqeria amerikane le te kontrolloje numrin e abuzimeve te grave te veta e 
ndarjeve e perdhunimeve e prostitucionit.>>

Shoqeria amerikane eshte shoqeri pluraliste, qe kujdeset -- me aq sa mundet 
-- per t'u dhene ze minoriteteve, dhe shtresave sociale tradicionalisht te 
keqtrajtuara. Kush jeton ne New York, do t'i kete pare ne vagonet e metrose 
ato dhjetra fotografi grash te abuzuara prej bashkeshorteve, te cilat 
shoqerojne nje informacion per nje shoqate e cila denoncon dhunen brenda 
familjes. Por, shoqeria amerikane nuk mund te KONTROLLOJE ato qe ndodhin 
brenda familjes; shume shume mund t'u siguroje mbrojtje viktimave duke 
perpunuar nje legjislacion perkates, i cili pergjithesisht ekziston. 
Perndryshe, vete orvatja per te KONTROLLUAR, sic e thua zotrote, nje problem 
familiar, do te ishte nje forme DHUNE e drejtperdrejte: pikerisht ajo qe 
ndodh ne Afganistan, bie fjala. 

<<Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte normale. Prandaj 
amerikanet po ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te afghanistanit.>>

Natyrisht, sepse tani amerikaneve u ka vajtur mendja te zene nga ndonje 
dashnore edhe ne Kabul, per te kaluar pushimet e veres. Dhe qe ta realizojne 
kete, po ua marrin krahet afganeve me peticione.

L. Sh.


From ermal_a at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 16:47:22 2000
From: ermal_a at yahoo.com (Ermal Abdi)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:47:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Kompleksi i vrimes se celesit
Message-ID: <20001204214722.14876.qmail@web4102.mail.yahoo.com>

JA NJE SHEMBULL PER ZENEPEN...

BILL CLINTON A JA KE DEGJUAR NDONJEHERE EMRIN?

PO MONICA LEWINSKY?

AMAN MOJ ZENEPE....SE NA QAVE FARE...


--- Zenepe Sammy <zenepja at hotmail.com> wrote:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> "Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte
> normale.prandaj 
> amerikanetpo ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te
> afghanistanit."
> 
> uuu more evlat, se na lemerise me keto historite me
> 5 dashnore. Po ti more 
> derman nga i di keto historite apo edhe ti
> ish-anetar i forcave te VLAT 
> (Vuajerat tek liqeni artificial Tirane) i graduar si
> VCPNYC (Vuajer i 
> Central Park New York City), qe fshihen mbas pemeve
> dhe ju mban shenim 
> pasthirmat njerezve kur e bejne ne rruge? Apo sheh
> enderra pornografike ti 
> dhe jua vesh amerikaneve sepse te duket se behesh me
> i mire. Po mos u 
> merzit, more bir se nuk ke faj. I ri je, dhe te
> levrin adrenalina ne gjak. E 
> coku te rrefejne ndonje histori shoket e tu qe e
> kafshojne mollen mbasi 
> mbyllin kuranin dhe eksitohesh. I ka jeta keto, more
> bir, i kane provuar 
> edhe te tjere perpara teje keto gjera. Se burrat
> shqiptare, burra hesapi 
> jane: politike dhe sex mbrockullitin tere diten e
> perendise dhe asnjeren nuk 
> dine ta bejne tamam. Prandaj dhe kane investuar ne
> llapen e gjate, thoshte i 
> ndjeri im gjysh, Suloja. Dhe shko lecit paditurine
> bir i perendise, ne vend 
> qe te gjermosh njerezit e botes nga mbrapa. Se
> muslimanizmi nuk eshte 
> Talihbani derman, se ai nuk eshte vecse dreqi me
> forma njeriu. Dhe nese 
> muslimanet mburren me nje qe vetem format i ka
> njerezore, me nje djall qe 
> predikon me kallashnikov, ju nuk beni vetem se ja
> afroni diten e harakirise 
> te madhit zot atje ne qiell, qe ndoshta vetem ideja
> qe ai i paftyre qe i ka 
> lyer duart me gjakun e te pafajshme do i trokasi ne
> dere nje dite ja ka 
> kallur kancerin.
> 
> Z.
> 
>
_____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
> http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club


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From diana35_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 16:57:52 2000
From: diana35_1 at yahoo.com (D.)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] GLU ,.. GLU,..... GLU.........
Message-ID: <20001204215752.24633.qmail@web3406.mail.yahoo.com>

Hej Hall Qomili, c?osht mi ajo fjal? e  jashtme ? pras
? ! ? Po u mytke me i lug uj, glu, glu glu. Pras osht
greqisht halle e do me thone jishil m?turce, e i
gjelber m?shqip. Ene ato si kan bo i peticion per
zevendesimin e laffit jeshil me te gjelber , s?un e
perdorin mo as fjalen pras, e deri sa shoqata e
gjuhtareve t' gjej' i llaf shqip per prasin as gjell?
me pras s?ke me honger Halle. Mos e dridh tani. 
P.S. E , Halle, e paske ble librin e funit me bekime?
Osht i bukur fort !Po ua them ene ktyne injorontve
t?alb-clubit icik mo, sa t?hapin syte ! 
Llafi i urt? : ? Stamolli digjet e kurva krifet ?, u
ka qit nga libri i ri, i botum nga shoqeria fromasone
e Brrakes. Libri u qujtshe : ? Bekime te trevave te
Brrakes dhe zonave perreth saj ?. Hall Qomili i
referohet kapitllit me bekime per raste gjomash te
mdhoja. Titlli i kapitllit osht ? T?shplaft panuklla
?.


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From ermal_a at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 17:05:14 2000
From: ermal_a at yahoo.com (Ermal Abdi)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:05:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Kompleksi i vrimes se celesit
Message-ID: <20001204220514.25782.qmail@web4107.mail.yahoo.com>

Zeno ja dhe ca shembuj te tjere motre...

Jimmy Swaggart.  Prift i madh amerikan apo
jo...sidomos ne vitet 80 kishte dashnore prostitute. 
Me e forta eshte se kur ky individ u tall njehere me
nje dijetar musliman gjate nje debati me te ne Baton
Rouge Luisiana.  

Swaggart: "Mr. Deedat told me that Islam allows four
wives (jo shtate sic thone ca injorante qe nuk dine
fare nga feja Islame) and I said 'well Mr. Deedat
Chrisitanity allows us only one so I had to chose the
best on the first shot".  Kur ai tha kete e gjithe
salla ja plasi nje te qeshure me muslimanet.

Pas nje viti ose me pak Mr. Deedat po bente nje debat
tjeter me Anis Shorrosh ne Angli.  Debati po
zhvillohej ne nje stadium me 12000 veta.  Mr. Deedat
thote "Jimmy Swaggart...said "Mr. Deedat christianity
allows us only one wife so I had to chose the best on
the first shot"  so I (Deedat) say 'apparently the
BEST was not good enough".  Pastaj plasen te qeshurat
nga muslimanet per kete lloj prifti.

Why? Cause he was found with a prostiture every two
months for his satisfaction.

Ose Marvin Gorman nje evangjelist tjeter me nam ne USA
dhe bote.  Apo Jim Baker evangjelist tjeter me nam ne
USA dhe bote po ashtu me prostitute e dashnore.  Me
duket se edhe per keta "the best was are not good
enough".  Ashtu sic eshte edhe nje thenie e vjeter "if
such are the priests God bless the congregation".

Zenepe keta e hane mollen motre nga mengjesi deri ne
darke.

ciao
--- Zenepe Sammy <zenepja at hotmail.com> wrote:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> "Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte
> normale.prandaj 
> amerikanetpo ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te
> afghanistanit."
> 
> uuu more evlat, se na lemerise me keto historite me
> 5 dashnore. Po ti more 
> derman nga i di keto historite apo edhe ti
> ish-anetar i forcave te VLAT 
> (Vuajerat tek liqeni artificial Tirane) i graduar si
> VCPNYC (Vuajer i 
> Central Park New York City), qe fshihen mbas pemeve
> dhe ju mban shenim 
> pasthirmat njerezve kur e bejne ne rruge? Apo sheh
> enderra pornografike ti 
> dhe jua vesh amerikaneve sepse te duket se behesh me
> i mire. Po mos u 
> merzit, more bir se nuk ke faj. I ri je, dhe te
> levrin adrenalina ne gjak. E 
> coku te rrefejne ndonje histori shoket e tu qe e
> kafshojne mollen mbasi 
> mbyllin kuranin dhe eksitohesh. I ka jeta keto, more
> bir, i kane provuar 
> edhe te tjere perpara teje keto gjera. Se burrat
> shqiptare, burra hesapi 
> jane: politike dhe sex mbrockullitin tere diten e
> perendise dhe asnjeren nuk 
> dine ta bejne tamam. Prandaj dhe kane investuar ne
> llapen e gjate, thoshte i 
> ndjeri im gjysh, Suloja. Dhe shko lecit paditurine
> bir i perendise, ne vend 
> qe te gjermosh njerezit e botes nga mbrapa. Se
> muslimanizmi nuk eshte 
> Talihbani derman, se ai nuk eshte vecse dreqi me
> forma njeriu. Dhe nese 
> muslimanet mburren me nje qe vetem format i ka
> njerezore, me nje djall qe 
> predikon me kallashnikov, ju nuk beni vetem se ja
> afroni diten e harakirise 
> te madhit zot atje ne qiell, qe ndoshta vetem ideja
> qe ai i paftyre qe i ka 
> lyer duart me gjakun e te pafajshme do i trokasi ne
> dere nje dite ja ka 
> kallur kancerin.
> 
> Z.
> 
>
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> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club


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From diana35_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 17:05:56 2000
From: diana35_1 at yahoo.com (D.)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:05:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Besa shqiptare
Message-ID: <20001204220556.15511.qmail@web3404.mail.yahoo.com>

Rritin e te therurit te djalit e gjen ne Bibel :
Gjeneza 22, sakrifikimi i Isakut. Zoti ia kerkon te
birin si kurban Abrahamit. Kur e shikon se Abrahami
bindet, e ndalon dhe i thote se kjo ishte vetem per te
pare se sa i bindur dhe sa besim kish Abrahami ne
perendine. Fjalet e verteta perdorur ne Bibel jane per
te pare se sa e kish FRIKE perendine Abrahami. Sa per
rifreskim, ne anglisht besimtari quhet GODFEARING. Pra
sakrifica e nje qenie te shtrenjte ndaj asaj te
shenjte eshte deri diku nje raport frike dhe
nenshtrimi. Qe ketej eshte me se e kuptueshme qe ne
diktature te kultivohet sakrifica ndaj qenies se
shenjte qe per 50 vjet ne Shqiperi quhej
Parti-Enver.Ne emer te kesaj shenjterie cdo sakrifice
familjare qe e tolerueshme dhe na mesohej qe ne klase
te pare e deri ne Universitet.
Ajo qe mua me prek fare tangencialisht korteksin eshte
se pse shqiptaret vazhdojne e mburren me fjalen e ?
urte ? : "Shqiptari kur jep fjalen, ther edhe djalen
!", me Besen. Kujt  ia jep fjalen shqiptari ?
Sigurisht mikut dhe jo armikut, sigurisht nje
shqiptari tjeter. Pse duhet te therre djalen shqiptari
A ? Per t?i mbushur mendjen shqiptarit B se s?kish
asnje menyre ta mbante fjalen, qe ai tjetri mos
kujtoje se ia beri me hile. Pra shqiptari ka frike nga
shqiptari, nuk ka besim tek shqiptari deri sa nje
prove e tille si therrja e djalit kerkohet per te
ruajtur miqesine. Maredheniet primitive te sakrificave
te kohes se parakrishtit, jo vetem qe jane ruajtur ne
shqiperi, por edhe transformuar ne maredhenie midis
njerezish dhe jo midis njerzve dhe hyjnive. Frika nga
Zoti eshte shprehur e transformuar ne frike per MIKUN.
Nuk iu duket se ne shqiptaret nuk jemi vecse
MIKFEARING ose mbase edhe SHQIPTARFEARING?! Ose
thjesht frikacake qe s?kemi besim ne vetvete?


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From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  4 17:14:49 2000
From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 22:14:49 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Milloshevici fitoi !?
Message-ID: <F92Xg9ae9ZPGVGlreWj000043bf@hotmail.com>

Perpara marreveshjes se Rambujese, Milloshevic ra ne dakort me West-in qe 
Serbia i afron autonomi te zgjeruar, ose te "pavaresi te kufizuar" brenda 
kufijve te Serbise (jo te Yugosllavise!).

Nuk u ra dakort midis politikaneve Shqiptar dhe nje lufte e madhe cliruese 
nga UCK u be.

Po cfare politikanet tane ne Kosove  kerkojne tashti ?

Kerkonjne pikerisht ate qe Milloshevici na e ofroi biles edhe pa derdhur 
gjak fare.

Kur Milloshevici nderpreu luften, ose u "dorezua" ai deklaroi se e fitoi 
luften. Ai deklaroi gjithashtu "Te njejten gje qe shqiptaret nuk pranojne 
nga Serbia, do e pranojne nga Nato !"

Serbet gezonin se e fituan, kurse ne qeshnim me Serbet. Tashti del qe 
paskemi qeshur me veten.

PS:
1. Shqiptaret nuk kerkojne shqiperi te Madhe por Shqiperi te Bashkuar !

2. Shpresoj te jete thjesht manover politike karshi fqinjeve (ashtu si 
Europa ben gjithmone me vendet e treta)

(lexo me poshte)

============>
Rugova: Krijimi i Shqip?ris? s? Madhe, probleme serioze n? Ballkan
Lajmi i ores 3:40 PM

PRISHTINE - "Krijimi i nj? Shqip?rie t? Madhe do t? ?onte drejt periudhe t? 
re me problemeve serioze n? Ballkan. K?t? ka deklaruar sot lideri i Lidhjes 
Demokratike t? Kosov?s p?r t? p?rditshmen e Malit t? Zi "Pobjeda" ecila 
?sht? cituar edhe nga Rado B2-92."Bashkim t? t? gjith? shqiptar?ve do t? 
shkaktonte nj? tension t? ri n? Maqedoni, Mal t? Zi dhe Serbi, ve?an?risht 
n? pjes?n jugore. Ai shtoi se "ai donte q? Kosova t? mbes? brenda kufijve 
aktual?(--> tani Kosova ndodhet brenda kufijve te Serbise,jo te 
Yugosllavise<--), por t? b?hej nj? vend ku t? gjith? - shqiptar?t dhe serb?t 
- do t? mund t? jetonin t? lir?. Rugova n? k?t? intervist? thot? se "ai dhe 
partia e tij ishin n? favor t? nj? Kosove "t? pavarur" dhe t? hapur e cila 
do t? integrohej n? Evrop? dhe NATO. Ai b?ri thirrje p?r nj? zgjidhje 
politike t? konfliktit t? fundit n? Lugin?n e Preshev?. Ai shtoi se "?sht? 
ende shum? shpejt p?r t'u takuan me Presidentin jugosllav, Vojislav 
Koshtunica, por mir?pret ndryshimet n? regjim, t? cilat ishin p?r t? mir?n 
jo vet?m t? Serbis?, por t? gjith? rajonit" Nd?rsa duke komentuar t? ardhmen 
e Malit t? Zi, Rugova tha se ai nuk do ta lidhte at? me Kosov?n, e cila 
tashm? gati ?sht? b?r? "e pavarur", por theksoi se d?shirat e popullit duhet 
t? respektohen. ad/mi (BalkanWeb)


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From LulzimShtino at aol.com  Mon Dec  4 17:29:19 2000
From: LulzimShtino at aol.com (LulzimShtino at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:29:19 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Vuajerat e zonjes Nepi
Message-ID: <30.d768c5e.275d74bf@aol.com>

LENDA: Permendja nga ana e z. Zenepe Sammy e " forcave te VLAT (Vuajerat tek 
liqeni artificial Tirane) [ose] VCPNYC (Vuajer i Central Park New York City), 
qe fshihen mbas pemeve dhe ju mbajne shenim pasthirmat njerezve kur e bejne 
ne rruge".

SQARIM: ketyre ne Tirane u kemi pase thene "turrsa".

SHPJEGIM: sipas prof. Din Bokshit, fjala e bukur shqipe "turrs" eshte nje 
substantiv deverbal i foljes konsonantike "turrem", ne kuptimin qe personat 
ne fjale jane perceptuar si "ata qe turren", kurse "les voyeurs" per te cilet 
ben fjale frengu, dhe z. Zenepe bashke me te, jane "ata qe shohin", domethene 
e kunderta, sepse qe te shohesh, duhet te rrish ne nje vend, jo te turresh -- 
ndersa gjate kohes qe je duke u turrur, nuk mund te shohesh, edhe sikur te 
turresh per te pare. Me sa mbaj mend une, turrsat e LAT-it (Liqenit 
Artificial te Tiranes, sic e permbledh Nepi me nje akronim te goditur) 
pergjthesisht mjaftoheshin duke pare, por kishte syresh qe, ne momente 
kritike, turreshin per te prekur ndonje cope mishi te bardhe zbuluar 
padashur, sidomos ne dimer, kur ishte e veshtire te shihje llere femrash, ose 
edhe ndonje pulpe te kolme, per shkak te klimes se ftohte qe bente atehere 
(kur efekti i seres ende nuk ishte ndier sa duhet, pa permendur kujdesin e 
posacem te Partise per problemet e mbrojtjes se ambientit, ne kushtet kur 
klima e Shqiperise gjendej e rrethuar nga klimera armiqesore te vendeve 
fqinje). Ne raste te tjera, ajo qe perceptohej si turrje ishte thjesht nje 
orvatje per te permiresuar kendin e observimit, ose per ta modifikuar kete 
kend ne perputhje me ato qe diktonte instinkti. Mirepo sic ndodh rendom ne 
boten shtazore, turrsi zbulohej si i tille pikerisht ne momentin kur e 
nderpriste vrojtimin dhe nderronte pozicion per t'iu afruar ciftit, zakonisht 
me shpejtesi te rrufeshme, per t'iu ruajtur ekspozimit. Prandaj populli, me 
urtesine qe e karakterizon, i quajti keta "voyeurs" jo sipas pasionit te tyre 
karakteristik, por sipas nje veprimi, ne thelb, atipik: te turrurit drejt 
ciftit-target. 

SHENIM: Turrsi tipik i kodrave te LAT-it vepronte i vetem, por nuk mungonin 
edhe grupe prej dy-tre vetesh, te pajisur me elektrik dore, (si dhe kosore 
per te prere shkurret, litare per t'u lidhur ne dege te pemeve, cizme 
minatori per mjedise kenetore, etj.) dhe te pergatitur mire per te kaluar 
naten ne pyll (faqore rakie, buke me vete, ose byrek). Ndryshe nga legjendat 
urbane qe kane qarkulluar, pergjithesisht nuk pranohet qe keta te kene kryer 
perdhunime, ose akte te tjera dhune ndaj cifteve; perkundrazi, qe ciftet kane 
pasur mundesi te benin c'te donin ne kodrat e LAT-it, per kete nje merite te 
padiskutueshme kane pasur edhe turrsat, te cilet i mbanin larg predatoret e 
tjere, me te rrezikshem. 

L. Sh.


From info at balkan-info.net  Mon Dec  4 18:20:44 2000
From: info at balkan-info.net (info at balkan-info.net)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 18:20:44
Subject: [Alb-club] News Summary 4 December 2000
Message-ID: <168.739910.739538@balkan-info.net>

Russian Defence Minister to Meet with NATO Officials
Moscow- Russian Defence Minister Igor Sergeyev will hold talks with NATO officials in Brussels on Tuesday. Agenda topics include the latest developments in the Balkans and a schedule for reopening the NATO office in Moscow, ITAR-TASS reported. Sergeyev met with Japan's Prime Minister during a recent four day visit to Tokyo. (Copyright AFP 2000)

Yugoslavia Seeks Renewed Relations with Albania
Tirana- Yugoslav Foreign Minister Goran Svilanovic said Belgrade was prepared to renew diplomatic relations with Albania, DPA reported.  ?We should communicate, discuss delicate problems and this is the reason that we should restore full diplomatic relations,? Svilanovic said in an interview with the state-run Albanian Telegraphic Agency.  Albania has also stated its willingness to restore relations with Yugoslavia, on the condition that Kosovo Albanians remaining in Serbian prisons are released.  (DPA ? 03/12/00)


Kostunica Urges Diplomacy in Southern Serbia
Belgrade- Yugoslav President Vojislav Kostunica urged politicians in the Balkan country to refrain from calls for war in southern Serbia, AFP reported. ?This is not the time for war, but for wise diplomatic action,? Kostunica said in a statement, according to AFP.  In recent weeks, ethnic Albanian insurgents have clashed with Serbian police in southern section of the republic, along the administrative border with Kosovo.  (AFP ? 03/12/00)


Stolojan Warns Against Voting for Tudor
Bucharest- The Liberal Party of Romanian presidential candidate Theodor Stolojan warned the country?s citizens that Romania could be isolated if far-right candidate Corneliu Vadim Tudor wins the runoff election, AP reported.  ?Vote against extremism, against Corneliu Vadim Tudor, in the second round of the presidential elections,? Liberal Party deputy leader Valeriu Stoica said, according to AP.  Tudor finished the first round in second place with 28 percent of the vote, with former President Ion Iliescu winning 36 percent.  Stolojan finished third with 11.78 percent.  (AP ? 03/12/00)


Serbian Judge Found Dead: Report
Belgrade- Belgrade television reported that Serbian judge Nebojsa Simeunovic was found dead over the weekend, nearly one month after his disappearance, according to DPA. Simeunovic gained notoriety during the Yugoslav post-election crisis when he refused to issue arrest warrants for Democratic Opposition of Serbia officials Nebojsa Covic and Boris Tadic.  (DPA ? 03/12/00)


Otpor Gathers Support For Yugoslav Secret Police Chief Ouster
Belgrade- The student-run resistance movement Otpor has put together a petition of 60,000 names calling for the ouster of secret police chief Rade Markovic, AFP reported.  Otpor accused Markovic of stymieing the progress of Serbia?s transitional government.  Vukasin Petrovic, an Otpor official, warned that the student-run group would focus on other individuals in the police and political system who supported former president Slobodan Milosevic.  (AFP ? 04/12/00)


From silke.blumbach at t-online.de  Mon Dec  4 18:55:14 2000
From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 00:55:14 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Jemi se bashku
Message-ID: <3A2C2EE1.3FE19F10@t-online.de>

JEMI SE BASHKU

Jemi se bashku
jemi se bashku
jemi se bashku
dallga e madhe.

Dallga e hidhur
me hidherim per tere boten
dhe per dy bota te tjera me tej.

Cila goje
do te na gelltise valle?

Jemi se bashku.
Jemi Dallga e Dhimbjes.

Po cili tru,
cili tru, o Zot, e pati mizorine
te na sajoje neve?


(C) Silke Liria Blumbach 2000
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From silke.blumbach at t-online.de  Mon Dec  4 19:00:23 2000
From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 01:00:23 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Thenie
Message-ID: <3A2C3016.EE0B5B28@t-online.de>

THENIE

Thane se femijet duhet te rrihen.
Thane se muri i Berlinit nuk bie kurre.
Thane se persosmeria eshte detyrim.
Thane se oreksi vjen duke ngrene.

Sa emra te vecante paska!
Per shembull, Lumturi.

Dikush tha: S'do te vuash me.
Dikush tha: Mos u merzit.
Dikush tha: Mendo pozitiv.
Dikush tha se Zoti ekziston.

Sa emra te vecante paska!
Dashnor, per shembull, dhe Shpetim.


(C) Silke Liria Blumbach 2000
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From silke.blumbach at t-online.de  Mon Dec  4 19:06:57 2000
From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 01:06:57 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=F6v=E9rem?=
Message-ID: <3A2C31A1.46447DBB@t-online.de>

N?V?REM

Erdhi ne dhe te huaj
lindi nje femije
kapi pak dhe nga dheu i huaj
dhe bashke me dheun dhe femijen iku -

N?v?rem
nen diellin e nxehte
dhe me i huaj ende.

Kur une ika ika ika
pa femije por nga dheu aspak i huaj
nga ky dhe une mora vetem
te ziun nen thonjezat.


(C) Silke Liria Blumbach 2000

("n?v?rem" do te thote "motra ime" ne hungarisht)
(Dear friends from "irodalom", I am going to explain you in another mail
...)
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From silke.blumbach at t-online.de  Mon Dec  4 20:08:07 2000
From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:08:07 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Goca e mire e perrallave
Message-ID: <3A2C3FF7.F699CED@t-online.de>

GOCA E MIRE E PERRALLAVE

Jam goca e mire e perrallave.
Ariun e liroj nga kurthi,
dhelpren e shpetoj nga gjuetari.
Plakes i jap nje cike buke
dhe xhuxhit ia pres mjekren.

Nje qime ariu, nje bisht dhelpre,
nje dhem i arte dhe nje kreher i argjendte
me kane shpetuar nga princat,
nga gjysmeprincat, nga pseudoprincat.

Mbjell buzeqeshje ne fushat
e faqeve te thjeshta.
Tani. Ketu. Ne Shqiperi, per shembull.

Nje ashkali me dha leke per buke.
Nje familje rrome me ngushelloi.
Refugjate kosovare me ushqyen gojen dhe zemren.
Nje vllahe e vjeter, ne burgun tiranas,
me ndaloi lotet e vjeshtes se paradjeshme.

Goce e mire, pra. Ne perrallat, ndoshta.
Vazhdoj te mbjell buzeqeshje me lote.
Ne njerin xhep kam nje dhem te arte.
Ne tjetrin, vjersha kengesh shqip.


(C) Silke Liria Blumbach 2000
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From ermal_a at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 22:43:47 2000
From: ermal_a at yahoo.com (Ermal Abdi)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 19:43:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet
Message-ID: <20001205034347.9829.qmail@web4103.mail.yahoo.com>

Jo o luli jo...hallin nuk e kemi tek talibanet e
amerikanet por tek te drejtat e njeriut qe ti me shoke
na cani koken nga mengjesi deri ne darke.  Berrr berr
sic i thone muhabetit.  

Pyetja jone eshte se nese jeni kaq te interesuar e
indinjuar per te drejtat e grave pse nuk flisni edhe
per grate e perdhunuara ne Ceceni, Kashmir, Filipine
etj?

Meqe USA dhe perendimi jane per "te drejtat e njeriut"
persa nuk i mallkojne krimet Ruse ne Ceceni? 
Perkundrazi as qe degjojme ndonje fjale prej tyre. 
Sllobodani eshte kriminel lufte ndersa Jeltsini dhe
Putin jane komplet te lire?  Pse mos valle ja kane
friken Rusise?  Nese kjo eshte e vertete atehere pse
nuk ja kishin friken Rusise kur futen Polonine e
Cekine ne NATO kundra deshires se ruseve?  Te cilet
kercenuan edhe per hapjen e luftes se ftohte nga e
para nese nje plan i tille do te zbatohej.  A nuk e
shihni ironine dhe semudjen nga e cila vuani
tmerresisht?  

Vetem kete vit USA i ka dhene Izraelit 4.5 miliard
dollare si ndihme.  E per cfare qe te vrase sa me
shume kalamanj musliman palestineze?  Nuk e di per
juve por une vete duke qene nenshtetas amerikan paguaj
taksa dhe paret e mija shkojne ne Izrael?  Per cfare? 
A nuk ju lidhen keto ndopak ne mendje...  

ciao
--- LulzimShtino at aol.com wrote:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> Propozoj qe te krijojme, brenda pajtimtareve te
> listes, nje Klub te Miqve te 
> Afganistanit; ose me mire ta formalizojme
> ekzistencen e tij, pse klubi vete 
> ka kohe qe vepron, madje edhe ne menyre te
> koordinuar. E kam fjalen per ata 
> zoterinj qe hidhen perpjete sapo dikush merr guximin
> te permende Talibanet, 
> ose gjendjen e mjeruar te gruas ne Afganistan;
> zoterinj qe duket sikur nuk i 
> nxjerr dot nga letargjia asgje pervecse ndonje teme
> ose argumenti qe ata vete 
> e perceptojne si ofensiv ndaj Islamit; keta te
> vetequajtur guardiane te fese 
> se tyre, Don Kishote qe mbrojne me zjarr disa nga
> shemtite me te medha 
> sociale qe ka pare historia e ketyre njezet vjeteve
> te fundit, dhe i mbrojne 
> jo sepse ua thote zemra, por vetem ngaqe e quajne
> kete misionin e vet te 
> shenjte. 
> 
> << A ka mundesi ndonjeri te na sjelli fakte me
> konkrete, sepse ne internet 
> eshte nje web site i nje fotografi francez qe ka
> vizituar Afghanistanin, dhe 
> ka thene qe nuk ka shtypje te grave ne
> Afghanistan.>>
> 
> Keshtu thote z. Ervin, i cili, ashtu si disa afgane
> te tjere qe kemi ketu, 
> kerkon qimen ne veze kur eshte fjala per te
> diskutuar dokumente qe 
> PERCEPTOHEN si anti-islamike, ne nje kohe qe -- pa
> iu dredhur qerpiku -- na 
> ka kerkuar te pranojme origjinen hyjnore te Kuranit,
> dhe shume mite te tjera 
> te fese se vet. 
> 
> Perndryshe mua me duket se iu takon apologjeteve te
> Talibaneve ne liste qe te 
> sjellin argumente shume te shendosha se ne
> Afganistan nuk ka dhune ndaj 
> grave. Me e mira do te ishte te na percillnin ndonje
> peticion te 
> intelektualeve afgane kunder keqtrajtimit te grave
> ne Perendim.
> 
> << Vetem beni search per afghanistan Pier me duket
> se e ka emrin ai 
> fotografi. >>
> 
> Po pse nuk e bere zotrote kete "search", qe te na
> vije me rezultate konkrete? 
> 
> << Une nuk mendoj se kjo ka te beje shume me grate
> sesa ka qe te ulet Islam e 
> ta paraqesin si fe ekstermiste.>>
> 
> Mos valle, sipas teje, sa here qe ngrihet zeri per
> ndonje problem shoqeror ne 
> vendet ku feja mbizoteruese eshte Islami, qellimi i
> vertete eshte qe te 
> denigrohet feja? Mos duhet te nxjerrim nga kjo qe ti
> vete, z. Ervin, kur i 
> perqesh amerikanet me "pese dashnore", ne te vertete
> je duke sulmuar 
> Krishterimin?
> 
> << Pse keto gra nuk ngrihen per grate ne checheni qe
> po perdhunohen e vriten 
> nga ruset perdite?>>
> 
> Pse nuk ngrihesh ti, z. Ervin, e te shkruash nje
> peticion kunder ketyre 
> rasteve? Kush te ka penguar? As zelli nuk te mungon,
> as forumi se ku ta 
> shpallesh peticionin. Une do te isha i pari qe do ta
> mbeshtetja, ashtu si, 
> besoj, shume te tjere ketu ne liste. Sepse me kete
> logjiken tende nuk shkohet 
> asgjekundi: po te guxoje ndokush te ngreje nje
> problem, do te hidhet ndonje 
> alb-afgan dhe do te thote: pse nuk ngrini edhe kete
> problemin tjeter? 
> 
> << Apo kane vendimin e papes qe tha per grate qe
> kishin ngelur shtatezene nga 
> perdhunimet ne bosnje nga serbet qe le ti lene
> femijet e ti rrisin se te 
> gjithe jane femije te Zotit.>>
> 
> Lere, c'e trazon kot Papen ne kete mesele. Nese ke
> ndermend ta cekesh kete 
> problem (te grave te lena me barre gjate
> perdhunimeve nga ana e serbeve ne 
> Bosnje e gjetke), shkruaj nje mesazh tjeter, sepse
> nuk me duket fare se ka 
> lidhje me peticionin kunder Talibaneve. Pastaj,
> c'eshte ky "vendim" i Papes? 
> Vertet ta merr mendja se Papa mund te marre vendime
> per grate myslimane te 
> Bosnjes? Me fjale te tjera, e ke idene se cfare je
> duke shkruar, dhe se keto 
> qyfyre t'i lexojne me mijera veta ketu? 
> 
> << Une nuk po them qe raste te ketilla nuk ndodhin
> por ne radhe te pare 
> shoqeria amerikane le te kontrolloje numrin e
> abuzimeve te grave te veta e 
> ndarjeve e perdhunimeve e prostitucionit.>>
> 
> Shoqeria amerikane eshte shoqeri pluraliste, qe
> kujdeset -- me aq sa mundet 
> -- per t'u dhene ze minoriteteve, dhe shtresave
> sociale tradicionalisht te 
> keqtrajtuara. Kush jeton ne New York, do t'i kete
> pare ne vagonet e metrose 
> ato dhjetra fotografi grash te abuzuara prej
> bashkeshorteve, te cilat 
> shoqerojne nje informacion per nje shoqate e cila
> denoncon dhunen brenda 
> familjes. Por, shoqeria amerikane nuk mund te
> KONTROLLOJE ato qe ndodhin 
> brenda familjes; shume shume mund t'u siguroje
> mbrojtje viktimave duke 
> perpunuar nje legjislacion perkates, i cili
> pergjithesisht ekziston. 
> Perndryshe, vete orvatja per te KONTROLLUAR, sic e
> thua zotrote, nje problem 
> familiar, do te ishte nje forme DHUNE e
> drejtperdrejte: pikerisht ajo qe 
> ndodh ne Afganistan, bie fjala. 
> 
> <<Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte
> normale. Prandaj 
> amerikanet po ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te
> afghanistanit.>>
> 
> Natyrisht, sepse tani amerikaneve u ka vajtur mendja
> te zene nga ndonje 
> dashnore edhe ne Kabul, per te kaluar pushimet e
> veres. Dhe qe ta realizojne 
> kete, po ua marrin krahet afganeve me peticione.
> 
> L. Sh.
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club


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From prua at europe.com  Mon Dec  4 22:57:29 2000
From: prua at europe.com (Fatmir Goxhaj)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:57:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Afganet dhe mjeranet!
Message-ID: <381860914.975988649243.JavaMail.root@web577-mc>

Miq Shqiptare!

Per ata te pakten qe kane akoma nje fije humanizmi, apo per ata qe mendja
vazhdon te punoj normalisht, i lus qe te mos bien viktime e propagandave te
ndryshme te botes, qe gjithnje duan mish per top ne strategjite e tyre per
te shtypur boten.
Per ata qe jane kurioz se kush i krijon keto mesazhe sensibilizuese afgane
ne nje liste Shqiptaresh qe as nuk e kane idene se ku bie Afganistani, le te
lexojne kete artikull me poshte e te fillojne te nuhasin pak me gjate sesa
eren e gjelles qe gatuhet ne alb-club.

Shendet dhe mendte ne koke,
FG

************************************************

JOINT U.S./RUSSIAN CHEMICAL ATTACK ON AFGHANISTAN IMMINENT

Breaking News Headlines 09 November 2000

Several thousand Russian and American troops amassing in countries
neighbouring Afghanistan
Use of chemical weapons expected
Imminent strike acknowledged by Western newspapers
Appeal for announcements after Friday Prayers
Appeal for donations to the Taliban Government
Appeal for gas masks
Appeal for medical help


Taliban news sources have been reporting that a joint American and Russian
attack on Afghanistan involving chemical weapons is expected any time. The
Times, a British newspaper, has also acknowledged this fact in yesterday's
issue (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,32114,00.html). Elite US Navy
Seal Units arrived in the region in the middle of October and entered
Afghanistan 'secretly'. This was also reported by the World Tribune
(www.worldtribune.com, 29 October 2000). Further contingents of American and
Russian troops have been arriving in the region constantly over the last few
weeks, in an operation expected to involve several thousand soldiers,
predominantly Russian, with American weapons, finance, intelligence and
Command and Control. The targets: the Taliban leadership and Foreign
Mujahideen forces.

Taliban Intelligence Sources in neighbouring countries have been reporting
that the troops are preparing to use chemical weapons, in order to gain the
advantage in a battle they do not expect to be win easily. Both Russian and
American troops are rehearsing chemical warfare manoevres wearing NBC
(Nuclear - Biological - Chemical) suits. The use of chemical weapons against
civilians does not come as a surprise from countries that do not even worry
about the safety of their own Armed Forces.

Pakistani newspapers have been reporting since mid-October that a strike on
Afghanistan is expected (http://www.dawn.com/2000/11/01/op.htm#1,
http://www.dawn.com/2000/11/01/top12.htm ,
http://www.dawn.com/2000/10/30/top7.htm). The Pakistan Government has
publicly refused permission for US airplanes and missiles to use its
airspace (http://www.dawn.com/2000/10/29/top1.htm) unlike the Tomahawk
Cruise Attack on Afghanistan in 1998, in which the Pakistanis secretly
assisted the Americans. US Embassies around the World have been closed. US
Forces around the World have been placed on high alert. Western media
sources have also acknowledged that an attack is very close
(http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,390671,00.html
, http://www.time.com/time/daily/0,2960,58483,00.html, despite the
'assurances' given to the Taliban Government by William B Milam, the
American Ambassador to Islamabad, Pakistan
(http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/nov2000-daily/03-11-2000/main/main1.htm).
The Taliban Foreign Minister, Abdul Wakil Mutawakil, has said that
Afghanistan will retaliate with full force if it is attacked
(http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2000-daily/27-10-2000/main/main14.htm).

The purpose of the attack is meant to be an assurance to the American public
that America has found those responsible for the USS Cole bombing in Yemen
on 12 October, and that it will retaliate. The American people have been
demanding answers from their Government as to how it failed to ensure the
security of more of their soldiers by sending them to a volatile region of
the World. The simple and quickest answer for them to give is to point the
finger at Usama bin Ladin and launch an attack on Afghanistan. As in the
1998 African Embassy bombings, there is little evidence and facts but more
rumours and propaganda. Usama bin Ladin denied involvement in the African
Embassy bombings and has denied involvement in the USS Cole bombing.
Therefore, it is obligatory upon every Muslim to take his word for it rather
than the word of a disbeliever. It is more likely that the USS Cole was
bombed in a joint Israeli Secret Service MOSSAD and CIA operation in order
to justify an attack on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and divert
attention from the Zionist genocide in Palestine. As always, the
Zionist-controlled US Government does not care about the lives of its
soldiers and is willing to sacrifice them in order to preserve its unjust
policies and the racist State of Israel. American soldiers die thinking they
are preserving liberty, freedom and democracy. The reality is that they are
expendable items in the dirty world of Zionist American politics in the
Middle East.

For several years now, the World has been waging a relentless economic,
political and media war against the Taliban regime because the Taliban
Government is the only Muslim Government in the World whose leaders are
sincere to establish Shariah. They have been been waging an indirect
military war against the Taliban by supplying arms, money and advisors to
the Communist forces of Ahmad Shah Masood, whose government does not have a
local address. They falsely accuse te Taliban of closing all girls' schools
and banishing women to their homes. The only 'crime' the Taliban are guilty
of is that they have refused to extradite Muslims to non-Muslim countries
because Islam does not permit the extradition of a Muslim to a disbeliever,
no matter what the situation or circumstances. This situation is even
stranger in that America has labelled accusations against Usama bin Ladin
without providing any proof or evidence and intelligent people are expected
to believe that a single man sitting in some remote region of the World,
totally isolated from communications and contact with the outside World, is
the biggest threat to World peace and global stability today. The real
threat to the World's tyrants are the Taliban, because they are the ones who
stand for proper justice and whose leaders eat and sleep on the floor.


______________________________________________
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From Era18 at aol.com  Mon Dec  4 23:29:16 2000
From: Era18 at aol.com (Era18 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:29:16 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet
Message-ID: <34.db98389.275dc91c@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/4/00 11:00:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ermal Abdi 
writes:

> Jo o luli jo...hallin nuk e kemi tek talibanet e
>  amerikanet por tek te drejtat e njeriut qe ti me shoke
>  na cani koken nga mengjesi deri ne darke.  Berrr berr
>  sic i thone muhabetit.  

A eshte kjo nje liste ku pikerisht ai qe presupozohet se "te can koken" eshte 
administratori i saj dhe harxhon kohe nga dita e vet qe ta mbaje gjalle dhe 
qe i duhet te lexoje, do apo s'do, mesazhet e tua dhe te tjereve, nderkohe qe 
ne te tjeret kemi luksin qe t'i fshijme urgjentisht sapo jua shohim emrin apo 
sapo ua ndjejme eren ne kutine e postes? 
Pse ne djall kjo mungese respekti totale? Pse ne djall ky vulgaritet i qelbur 
shqiptar? Pse ne djall kjo gjuhe e ndyre qe na ben te marrim arratine dhe te 
mos ia shohim bojen atyre rradheve qe ke ti per te thene apo kushdo tjeter? 
Sa vjet neper civilizimet perendimore ju duhen qe te mesoni te komunikoni si 
njerez? Nuk u formua kjo liste dhe nuk preokupohen njerez me mirembajtjen e 
saj qe te dalin ca te pagdhendur e te papune dhe te na prishin shijen me nje 
tufe dokrrash te pasjellshme, qe te provokojne vetem nje ndjenje te tille qe 
mund te te provokojne gishti tregues dhe ai i mesit, te dy bashke, te futur 
thelle ne gryke...
Rreshtni per nje moment, gjejini vetes ndonje pune tjeter dhe na lini te qete 
perfundimisht se na ka ardhur ne maje te hundes, si me dokrrat tuaja islamike 
ashtu dhe me trajtimet e trasha te cdo teme qe merrni persiper apo 
vulgaritetin tuaj ekstrem. 

MJAFT !


From atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr  Tue Dec  5 06:14:28 2000
From: atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr (Aleksander Coho)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:14:28 +0200
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001205114759.00ab1a60@artemis.ims.demokritos.gr>

Tungjatjeta Alb-Club

PERKUFIZIM: Interneti eshte nje mjedis virtual qe u jep 
mundesine  shqiptareve te grinden ne menyre reale EDHE per se largu.

Une hyra per here te pare ne Alb-Club para disa ditesh. Rezultoi qe aty 
shqiptaret grinden me njeri-tjetrin. Qe interneti do tu sherbente 
shqiptareve per tu grindur, ishte e parashikueshme. Ajo qe ishte e 
PAparashikueshme,  eshte objekti i grindejes. Askush nga brezi im (jam 33 
vjec) nuk do te kishte parashikur qe shqiptaret do te grindeshin per PUNE 
FEJE. Une kam studiuar dhe punuar ne Shqiperi; deri ne vitin 1995 nuk 
rastisa ndonjehere ne ndonje mjedis ku shqiptaret te grindeshin per pune 
feje. Dhe ja tani...

Nga pikepamja ideologjike fete nje hesap jane te gjitha. Mjafton te lexosh 
biblen apo kuranin per tu bindur. Bibla dhe kurani perbehen nga:
a) Paragrafe pa asnje kuptim.
b) Paragrafe pa asnje logjike. Psh: Zoti e do boten te mire - eshte i 
gjithefuqishem dhe krijues i botes - krijon nje bote te keqe - pastaj fajin 
e kane njerzit.
c) Paragrafe krejtesisht imorale. Psh, nga bibla: Ishte nje prostitute ne 
nje qytet, tradheton qytetin e saj ne favor te pushtuesit, pastaj zoti ia 
fal mekatet meqe tradhetoi qytetin e saj. Psh nga kurani: Gruaja e katert e 
Muhametit ishte 8 (TETE) vjec.
d) Tek-tuk nonje gje edhe me kuptim edhe e moralshme, por qe eshte e 
parendesishme, sepse shumica e njerezve jane te moralshem edhe pa lexuar 
Biblen apo Kuranin.

Historikisht feja eshte shfrytezuar
a) per te shtypur njerzit, ne stilin: rri aty ku je, se keshtu ka vendosur 
Zoti i padiskutueshem - shpreso ne boten tjeter - je mekatar by default.
b) per te justifikuar shtypesin. Otomanet vringellinin jataganin ne emer te 
Allahut - Konstandini i Madh (qe me duket ishte shqiptar) justifikonte 
pushtetin e vet ne emer te Zotit dhe me bekimin  kishes - inkuizicioni 
spanjoll torturonte njerzit ne emer te zotit - pronare te tokes jane vetem 
kisha dhe disa fisnike me bekimin e Zotit (Dikur ne Europe) - pronare te 
gjithshkaje jane disa sheike me bekimin e Allahut (ne shume vende islamike 
sot) - ne emer te Allahut i detyrojne grate te rrine ne shtepi dhe te 
mbulojne koken me nje lecke te zeze kur dalin -, e keshtu me radhe.

Fete pra nuk dallohen nga ideologjia apo nga menyra se si jane perdorur.

Puna eshte se 3-4 shekujt e fundit ne Europe filluan ca ide te reja, te 
quajtura humanizem, iluminizem, etj.
Dallimi ndermjet perendimit sot dhe vendeve islamike sot, nuk eshte 
ideologjia fetare, por niveli i pushtetit qe ka feja mbi njerzit. Ne 
shoqerite perendimore, me gjithe problemet qe kane, njerzit kane nje nivel 
lirie qe sherben si mekanizem perparimi. Ne vendet islamike nuk behet fjale 
per perparim - gjysma e njerezve (grate) perjashtohen by default nga cdo 
aspekt i jetes shoqerore.

Nuk jam ne gjendje te kuptoj se c'predikojne disa islamike ne Alb-Club (nuk 
eshte fjala nga pikepamja ideologjike). Te behemi si Irani apo Afganistani? 
T'i vrasim grate me gure kur bien ne dashuri? Mos te vene ne spital kur 
jane te semura, se mos i sheh gje doktori?
Te na thone njehere se c'predikojne. Ne se megjithned duan te behemi si 
Irani apo Afganistani, natyrisht qe grate shqiptare nuk do ta lejojne nje 
gje te tille. Megjithmend kane vetem gjysem lire, por gjysem eshte me mire 
se hic fare, dhe kur ke gjysem mund te pretendosh te kesh eshe me shume.

Aleksander Coho




From zenepja at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  5 07:05:44 2000
From: zenepja at hotmail.com (Zenepe Sammy)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 12:05:44 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Kompleksi i vrimes se celesit
Message-ID: <F248PDh5vNpqY1Yf1U80000e856@hotmail.com>

Na more evlati Abdi,

me rrofsh qe me hargalise. 12 milione ka nju jorku, te keqen, 12 milione 
koke, po ti numerosh nga kokat sic e bente xha Sulua me deshte ne Terbac. E 
ai klintoni, qe mi je qepur si morr, nje eshte dhe nje te dashur ne kohe te 
vaftit kishte, Levinskin. Njeshi eshte nje more te keqen nena, kete e di 
edhe Zenepja qe ka mesuar te shkruaje ne kurset e analfabetizmit. Njeshi 
tjeter te keqen dhe katra tjeter. Ajo levinski eshte ca si e bollshme, e 
ashtu eshte te keqen, po prape per kater vete bashke nuk ben. E qe the ti, 
mua zemra me pikoi per Klintonin, sepse i ziu ishte marrosur mbas asaj 
feckes. I gurgullonte zemra te ziut, e sic ndodh rendom ne keto raste i 
kishte shkare ajo e shkrete pak ne me te mengjer. E vajti e na kujtoi 
historite e dashurise me Samin, kete flamen time, burrin tim, kur ishim te 
rinj dhe kur u takuam per here te pare tek burimi i fshatit. Flake na 
shkrepen syte. O martohemi o vdesim thame. E u martuam. E c'beme? Nje kope 
me femije. Perndryshe nga ato shkendijat nuk ka ngelur gje. Eh c'kohera 
ishin ato te qemotmet. E qe the ti qe nuk the asgje, ai Klintoni e kishte 
nje zemer te pakten, bile edhe i rrifte ajo shkrete. Shyqyr, gabimet e 
zemres i falim te gjithe, vetem zemra te rrafi. Por ty more bir, ty si te ta 
bejme qe te eshte thare jo zemra, por gjithe cke.

Me aritmetiken e cobaneve te Terbacit, more evlat, i bie qe ne se nje dash 
ka kater dele, atehere ose deshte e tjere nuk kane asgje dhe do t'ja fusin 
briret atij qe ka, ose deshte kane bere kompromise dhe i ndajne ato te 
shkreta dele me njeri-tjetrin ne paqe dhe lumturi.
Tani te keqen ti qe e di me kompetence qe ne Amerike te gjithe jane me 4 
dashnore na e sqaro pak si e rregullojne keta amerikanet kete pune. E me qe 
ti i njeh te gjithe banoret e Amerikes, dhe si VLAT i thekur qe je, jua di 
edhe te gjitha gulcimat dhe variacionet e gulcimave mbas seciles nga ato te 
kater shkaperderdhje qe ata i bejne, a nuk me thua ne se e di se ku eshte im 
kushuri, Ceco Rrapushi me te cilin piqnim misra, ndiqnim pulat dhe u 
shkulnim veshet gomereve kur ishim te vegjel. Se ku i ka humbur vula ketu ne 
Amerike e nuk e gjej dot te keqen. Aq me ka pikuar malli sa qe u rregjistrua 
nena edhe tek Big Brother qe te me shihte e te me bente nje telefon 
dereziu.Por nuk me pranuan se i kisha lidheset e kepuceve ngjyre kafe, e ata 
pranonin vetem ata qe i kishin te zeza.

Z


PS: More Luli, po shpuze te ka nena more bir, shpuze. Me rrofsh dhe vazhdo 
bjeru ne koke malukateve.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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From nfn18405 at naples.net  Tue Dec  5 10:37:54 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:37:54 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet
References: <c9.af879bf.275d653f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c05ed1$cdd2e460$44bfa0cd@computer>

ne kete liste ka persona qe jane dhe te lista e muslimaneve shqiptare dhe
ndonjeri prej tyre le te thote nese ne flasim per talibanet ne ate liste.
Injorantet shkuan aq larg sa talibanet i quajten ndjekesit e
Albanit(Muhammed Nasiruddin el Albani dijetar musliman shqiptar vdiq ne
jordani ne tetor 1999)
Une ate searchin e kam bere dhe s`kam nevoje per argumenta,ju nese keni
gjejeni.
Ai fakti qe e rrahen sepse kishte nxjerrur krahun kur ishte duke i dhene
makines del ne kundershtim me faktin qe talibanet nuk i lejne grate te dalin
jashte.
Afghansitani eshte nje vend i varfer i mjeruar nga luftrat me rusine e eshte
vetem male e numri i makinave numerohet me gishta e ajo gruaja paska dale me
makine.
Pastaj ti na flet me fakte pa lidhje po ti i lidh vete faktet fort se ke
vinovil amerikan.
Eshte nje gje qe e verteta ngel e vertete e beson apo jo ti apo une.
Une e thashe qe keto raste ndodhin nuk eshte se ne vendet muslimane s`ka
gjera te tilla,dhe ne nuk bejem peticione.
A e ke pare dokumentarin tek CNN per afghanistanin qe ushtaret ruse klane
kockat andej kurse televizionet ruse jepnin imazhe te fallsifikuara qe
ushtaret ruse po ndertojne afghanistanin.
Usa nuk eshte nje shtet kristian eshte shtet laik qe secili ka te drejten te
praktikoje cfaredo feje te doje.
Ne radhe te pare asnjeri nuk e merr vesh gjuhen e peticioneve.Shume zhurme e
peticione u bene per kosoven kashmirin chechenine e palestinen po kush
reagoi?
Eshte njelloj si Meta qe shkon ne greqi e i jep fjalen simitisit se do te
kujdeset per minoritetin grek.
Kurse shqiptaret jane 20% e greqise tani.
Pastaj po te ngre une nje problem te tille ne alb-klub do te fillojne
mesazhet qe na merzitet me muslimanet zgjidhini vete problemet.
Shoqeria amerikane eshte shoqeri pluraliste si ta kuptojme kete fjali
dhe i jep te drejte minoriteteve?
O lul ca minoriteti grave?
Grate jane maxhorance jo minoritet ne Usa.
Kemi faket qe solli fatmiri per pergatitjen e luftes nga usa e rusia
Kemi faktet nga ermali per prifterinjte edhe nje e di une nje vit me pare ne
tampa per pedofili
Problemi i grave eshte per tu zgjidhur me pune jo me postera rrugeve.
Nuke di nese Lulzimi e di historine e partise islamike qe e hoqi ushtria me
dhune nga pushteti ne Turqi kush nderhyri asnje?
Dhe ajo deputetja turke qe hyri ne parlamente me hixhab(mbulesa e gruas
sipas Islamit) filluan te tjeret duke i rene tavolinave me grushta dhe ia
hoqen shtetesine turke ka ngelur vetem me ate amerikane.
Kemi dy ekstreme ne Afghanistan qe femrat i detyrojne te mbulohen dhe turqi
qe kane ligj qe nuk lejohet mbulesa e kokes dhe grate mbulohen.
Pastaj ti lul ne new york je shko tek qendra islamike atje shih se si jane
grate po ketu ne usa kush po i detyroje talibanet?
Islami mundohet ta parandaloje semundjen se poi te kapi semundja ateher nuk
i dihet e gjen ilacin apo jo dhe ndoshta e gjen p[or eshte teper vone.
Rasti i perdhunimeve dhe abuzimeve eshte me i larte ne perendim sesa ne
vendet islame(jo se ne vendet islame s`ka),por duke qene femrat te mbuluara
edhe mashkullit sado i djegur e mendjekqe qofte nuk i ben aq pershtypje sesa
ajo qe del me minifund.
Ose homoseksualiteti eshte aq shume ne vendet perndimore ne krahasim me
vendet muslimane etj.
Pastaj nese ndonje amerikan do te kete dashnore ne kabul si tjote lulzimi me
kete po ben nje rruge e dy pune se nuk ka nevoje te paguaje ne usa 10.000$
per nje cope toke ku te varroset ia gjejne afghanet nje kanal.
 o Lul trimi mendo sikur te vije ndonjeri te kapi motren ose mamane tende.
Po e le me kaq te mos zgjatem.
Dhe ai qe do qe grate te kene drejtat e tyre le te fillojne nga familjet e
tyre.


----- Original Message -----
From: <LulzimShtino at aol.com>
To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 1:23 PM
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet


>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
> Propozoj qe te krijojme, brenda pajtimtareve te listes, nje Klub te Miqve
te
> Afganistanit; ose me mire ta formalizojme ekzistencen e tij, pse klubi
vete
> ka kohe qe vepron, madje edhe ne menyre te koordinuar. E kam fjalen per
ata
> zoterinj qe hidhen perpjete sapo dikush merr guximin te permende
Talibanet,
> ose gjendjen e mjeruar te gruas ne Afganistan; zoterinj qe duket sikur nuk
i
> nxjerr dot nga letargjia asgje pervecse ndonje teme ose argumenti qe ata
vete
> e perceptojne si ofensiv ndaj Islamit; keta te vetequajtur guardiane te
fese
> se tyre, Don Kishote qe mbrojne me zjarr disa nga shemtite me te medha
> sociale qe ka pare historia e ketyre njezet vjeteve te fundit, dhe i
mbrojne
> jo sepse ua thote zemra, por vetem ngaqe e quajne kete misionin e vet te
> shenjte.
>
> << A ka mundesi ndonjeri te na sjelli fakte me konkrete, sepse ne internet
> eshte nje web site i nje fotografi francez qe ka vizituar Afghanistanin,
dhe
> ka thene qe nuk ka shtypje te grave ne Afghanistan.>>
>
> Keshtu thote z. Ervin, i cili, ashtu si disa afgane te tjere qe kemi ketu,
> kerkon qimen ne veze kur eshte fjala per te diskutuar dokumente qe
> PERCEPTOHEN si anti-islamike, ne nje kohe qe -- pa iu dredhur qerpiku --
na
> ka kerkuar te pranojme origjinen hyjnore te Kuranit, dhe shume mite te
tjera
> te fese se vet.
>
> Perndryshe mua me duket se iu takon apologjeteve te Talibaneve ne liste qe
te
> sjellin argumente shume te shendosha se ne Afganistan nuk ka dhune ndaj
> grave. Me e mira do te ishte te na percillnin ndonje peticion te
> intelektualeve afgane kunder keqtrajtimit te grave ne Perendim.
>
> << Vetem beni search per afghanistan Pier me duket se e ka emrin ai
> fotografi. >>
>
> Po pse nuk e bere zotrote kete "search", qe te na vije me rezultate
konkrete?
>
> << Une nuk mendoj se kjo ka te beje shume me grate sesa ka qe te ulet
Islam e
> ta paraqesin si fe ekstermiste.>>
>
> Mos valle, sipas teje, sa here qe ngrihet zeri per ndonje problem shoqeror
ne
> vendet ku feja mbizoteruese eshte Islami, qellimi i vertete eshte qe te
> denigrohet feja? Mos duhet te nxjerrim nga kjo qe ti vete, z. Ervin, kur i
> perqesh amerikanet me "pese dashnore", ne te vertete je duke sulmuar
> Krishterimin?
>
> << Pse keto gra nuk ngrihen per grate ne checheni qe po perdhunohen e
vriten
> nga ruset perdite?>>
>
> Pse nuk ngrihesh ti, z. Ervin, e te shkruash nje peticion kunder ketyre
> rasteve? Kush te ka penguar? As zelli nuk te mungon, as forumi se ku ta
> shpallesh peticionin. Une do te isha i pari qe do ta mbeshtetja, ashtu si,
> besoj, shume te tjere ketu ne liste. Sepse me kete logjiken tende nuk
shkohet
> asgjekundi: po te guxoje ndokush te ngreje nje problem, do te hidhet
ndonje
> alb-afgan dhe do te thote: pse nuk ngrini edhe kete problemin tjeter?
>
> << Apo kane vendimin e papes qe tha per grate qe kishin ngelur shtatezene
nga
> perdhunimet ne bosnje nga serbet qe le ti lene femijet e ti rrisin se te
> gjithe jane femije te Zotit.>>
>
> Lere, c'e trazon kot Papen ne kete mesele. Nese ke ndermend ta cekesh kete
> problem (te grave te lena me barre gjate perdhunimeve nga ana e serbeve ne
> Bosnje e gjetke), shkruaj nje mesazh tjeter, sepse nuk me duket fare se ka
> lidhje me peticionin kunder Talibaneve. Pastaj, c'eshte ky "vendim" i
Papes?
> Vertet ta merr mendja se Papa mund te marre vendime per grate myslimane te
> Bosnjes? Me fjale te tjera, e ke idene se cfare je duke shkruar, dhe se
keto
> qyfyre t'i lexojne me mijera veta ketu?
>
> << Une nuk po them qe raste te ketilla nuk ndodhin por ne radhe te pare
> shoqeria amerikane le te kontrolloje numrin e abuzimeve te grave te veta e
> ndarjeve e perdhunimeve e prostitucionit.>>
>
> Shoqeria amerikane eshte shoqeri pluraliste, qe kujdeset -- me aq sa
mundet
> -- per t'u dhene ze minoriteteve, dhe shtresave sociale tradicionalisht te
> keqtrajtuara. Kush jeton ne New York, do t'i kete pare ne vagonet e
metrose
> ato dhjetra fotografi grash te abuzuara prej bashkeshorteve, te cilat
> shoqerojne nje informacion per nje shoqate e cila denoncon dhunen brenda
> familjes. Por, shoqeria amerikane nuk mund te KONTROLLOJE ato qe ndodhin
> brenda familjes; shume shume mund t'u siguroje mbrojtje viktimave duke
> perpunuar nje legjislacion perkates, i cili pergjithesisht ekziston.
> Perndryshe, vete orvatja per te KONTROLLUAR, sic e thua zotrote, nje
problem
> familiar, do te ishte nje forme DHUNE e drejtperdrejte: pikerisht ajo qe
> ndodh ne Afganistan, bie fjala.
>
> <<Po te kesh nga 5 dashnore e ta besh rrugeve eshte normale. Prandaj
> amerikanet po ngrihen per jonormalizimin e grave te afghanistanit.>>
>
> Natyrisht, sepse tani amerikaneve u ka vajtur mendja te zene nga ndonje
> dashnore edhe ne Kabul, per te kaluar pushimet e veres. Dhe qe ta
realizojne
> kete, po ua marrin krahet afganeve me peticione.
>
> L. Sh.
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
>



From nfn18405 at naples.net  Tue Dec  5 10:44:59 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:44:59 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)
References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001205114759.00ab1a60@artemis.ims.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <00d501c05ed2$56686840$44bfa0cd@computer>

Aleksander intelektuali me gjej pjesen ne Kuran qe thote gruaja e katert e
Muhammedit ishte 8 vjec.
Ti jo vetem qe nuk e ke lexuar as biblen as Kuranin por nuk njeh as
histiorine as matematiken

----- Original Message -----
From: Aleksander Coho <atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr>
To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:14 AM
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)


>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
> Tungjatjeta Alb-Club
>
> PERKUFIZIM: Interneti eshte nje mjedis virtual qe u jep
> mundesine  shqiptareve te grinden ne menyre reale EDHE per se largu.
>
> Une hyra per here te pare ne Alb-Club para disa ditesh. Rezultoi qe aty
> shqiptaret grinden me njeri-tjetrin. Qe interneti do tu sherbente
> shqiptareve per tu grindur, ishte e parashikueshme. Ajo qe ishte e
> PAparashikueshme,  eshte objekti i grindejes. Askush nga brezi im (jam 33
> vjec) nuk do te kishte parashikur qe shqiptaret do te grindeshin per PUNE
> FEJE. Une kam studiuar dhe punuar ne Shqiperi; deri ne vitin 1995 nuk
> rastisa ndonjehere ne ndonje mjedis ku shqiptaret te grindeshin per pune
> feje. Dhe ja tani...
>
> Nga pikepamja ideologjike fete nje hesap jane te gjitha. Mjafton te lexosh
> biblen apo kuranin per tu bindur. Bibla dhe kurani perbehen nga:
> a) Paragrafe pa asnje kuptim.
> b) Paragrafe pa asnje logjike. Psh: Zoti e do boten te mire - eshte i
> gjithefuqishem dhe krijues i botes - krijon nje bote te keqe - pastaj
fajin
> e kane njerzit.
> c) Paragrafe krejtesisht imorale. Psh, nga bibla: Ishte nje prostitute ne
> nje qytet, tradheton qytetin e saj ne favor te pushtuesit, pastaj zoti ia
> fal mekatet meqe tradhetoi qytetin e saj. Psh nga kurani: Gruaja e katert
e
> Muhametit ishte 8 (TETE) vjec.
> d) Tek-tuk nonje gje edhe me kuptim edhe e moralshme, por qe eshte e
> parendesishme, sepse shumica e njerezve jane te moralshem edhe pa lexuar
> Biblen apo Kuranin.
>
> Historikisht feja eshte shfrytezuar
> a) per te shtypur njerzit, ne stilin: rri aty ku je, se keshtu ka vendosur
> Zoti i padiskutueshem - shpreso ne boten tjeter - je mekatar by default.
> b) per te justifikuar shtypesin. Otomanet vringellinin jataganin ne emer
te
> Allahut - Konstandini i Madh (qe me duket ishte shqiptar) justifikonte
> pushtetin e vet ne emer te Zotit dhe me bekimin  kishes - inkuizicioni
> spanjoll torturonte njerzit ne emer te zotit - pronare te tokes jane vetem
> kisha dhe disa fisnike me bekimin e Zotit (Dikur ne Europe) - pronare te
> gjithshkaje jane disa sheike me bekimin e Allahut (ne shume vende islamike
> sot) - ne emer te Allahut i detyrojne grate te rrine ne shtepi dhe te
> mbulojne koken me nje lecke te zeze kur dalin -, e keshtu me radhe.
>
> Fete pra nuk dallohen nga ideologjia apo nga menyra se si jane perdorur.
>
> Puna eshte se 3-4 shekujt e fundit ne Europe filluan ca ide te reja, te
> quajtura humanizem, iluminizem, etj.
> Dallimi ndermjet perendimit sot dhe vendeve islamike sot, nuk eshte
> ideologjia fetare, por niveli i pushtetit qe ka feja mbi njerzit. Ne
> shoqerite perendimore, me gjithe problemet qe kane, njerzit kane nje nivel
> lirie qe sherben si mekanizem perparimi. Ne vendet islamike nuk behet
fjale
> per perparim - gjysma e njerezve (grate) perjashtohen by default nga cdo
> aspekt i jetes shoqerore.
>
> Nuk jam ne gjendje te kuptoj se c'predikojne disa islamike ne Alb-Club
(nuk
> eshte fjala nga pikepamja ideologjike). Te behemi si Irani apo
Afganistani?
> T'i vrasim grate me gure kur bien ne dashuri? Mos te vene ne spital kur
> jane te semura, se mos i sheh gje doktori?
> Te na thone njehere se c'predikojne. Ne se megjithned duan te behemi si
> Irani apo Afganistani, natyrisht qe grate shqiptare nuk do ta lejojne nje
> gje te tille. Megjithmend kane vetem gjysem lire, por gjysem eshte me mire
> se hic fare, dhe kur ke gjysem mund te pretendosh te kesh eshe me shume.
>
> Aleksander Coho
>
>
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
>



From zenepja at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  5 08:48:55 2000
From: zenepja at hotmail.com (Zenepe Sammy)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:48:55 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Alb-afganet! Ruajuni! Kafshojne!
Message-ID: <F76npFW4sVRDI2Vjnnl0000e426@hotmail.com>

"Rasti i perdhunimeve dhe abuzimeve eshte me i larte ne perendim sesa ne 
vendet islame(jo se ne vendet islame s`ka),por duke qene femrat te mbuluara 
edhe mashkullit sado i djegur e mendjekqe qofte nuk i ben aq pershtypje sesa 
ajo qe del me minifund."

Na more xhevahiri i nenes,

po ti pse keshtu me vrap e me vrap e mezi merr fryme e te dalin ato fjalet 
si gulcima qe nuk lidhen me njera tjetren. Po ulu e merre shtruar e pije nje 
gote dhalle qe te ta heqi zjarrin. He te keqen, se shendeti mbi te gjitha. E 
degjo te ta thote nje fjale zenepja, qe e ka degjuar nga pleqte e mocem te 
Terbacit, ata meshkujt qe digjen te keqen ju eshte djegur koka e nuk ju 
punojne me syte hic. Jo me minifund, e jo me perce por edhe me gunat e 
trasha te cobaneve te jesh veshur te perdhunojne. Se nje njeri normal more 
bir nuk i sheh femrat nga ckane poshte brekeve, dhe nuk e ngre koken 
perpjete kur ato ngjisin shkallet e as ua ngre fundet me bastun si bente ky 
muslimani i ndershem im shoq. Nje njeri eshte njeri dhe jo kafshe, thoshin 
te mocmit, edhe muhabetin e ben si njeri dhe jo si kafshe. Leri te rejat te 
vishen si te duan, tek e fundit nje trup kane si e gjitha bota femerore e te 
gjithe e dine qe nuk ka ndonje cudi ne ate trup, tek e fundit keshtu na ka 
bere zoti.Ne vend qe tua lesh fajin ne dere te rejave e te mua veshesh 
jorganin e zi, hiqua veshin atyre qe i konsiderojne femrat si objekte 
masturbimi dhe qe thjesht i perdorin sa here qe ju digjen shalet.

e sa per perdhunimet more bir, une ketu ne amerike kam qe sa s'mbahet mend e 
nuk me ka ndodhur as nje e keqe as mua e as vajzave te miat. E jane 
dashuruar e martuar me ke ju ka dashur qejfi dhe alamet pellumba kane mare e 
te lumtur e plot hare jane. Ja kane mbushur edhe Zenepes peqirin plot me 
kolopuca qe ju befsha kurban ju befsha. E keto cupkat ne ankohen, ankohen se 
sa here qe shkojne ne diskoteka ju afrohen ca muslimane te ndershem e te 
djegur nga afganistani apo shejtani si puna e ketyre qe na rrefeve edhe ti e 
jua fusin duar nga mbrapa. Pisllik!

Po ju andej nga ana tjeter e botes nuk i tregoni prapesite ashtu sic nuk i 
tregonim prapesite e komunizmit edhe ne njehere e nje kohe e tundeshim e 
shkundeshim perpara pasqyres, pasqyre pasqyre kush eshte me e bukur une apo 
bota, e sigurisht ne ishim me te bukurit e me te miret e botes e kush 
tjeter, se na i kishin kerryer syte e mendjes qe ne sabah, keshtu si edhe ty 
dhe dylbereve te tu qe te rrine sus e te binden si qente e staneve ketu ne 
alb-list te keqen.

Po hajt se sa ka pare nena si ty thuaj e ty te duket se je i mencur dhe nuk 
te merr vesh bota ato prapesite qe ben mbrapa shpine. Po mire more bir 
gezohu nga nje cike edhe ti se gjynah po me dukesh, se c'ke nje keshtu si 
ligesi ne shpirt ty, kotke te eshte bere e nuk po te leshoka. Sikur nuk te 
ka perkedhelur ndonje dore nene more bir, gjynaf. Z
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From kosova6 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  5 15:57:21 2000
From: kosova6 at hotmail.com (Alban Thaqi)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:57:21 
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)
Message-ID: <LAW2-F1137miR9Oduto0000abeb@hotmail.com>



>From: "ervin" <nfn18405 at naples.net>
>Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
>Subject: Re: [Alb-club] (no subject)
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:44:59 -0800
>
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>Aleksander intelektuali me gjej pjesen ne Kuran qe thote gruaja e katert e
>Muhammedit ishte 8 vjec.
>Ti jo vetem qe nuk e ke lexuar as biblen as Kuranin por nuk njeh as
>histiorine as matematiken

Ja dhe nje shembull i shkel(q)yer se si mund t'i mbyllet goja me argumenta 
te pakundershtueshme tjetrit. Se ku e gjeti mosnjohjen e matematikes ne 
shkrimin e meposhtem i nderuari Ervin mbetet per mua nje cudi - kuptohet jo 
me e madhja, pasi cudia me e madhe eshte se nga dalin keta individe 
fondamentaliste islamike shqitpare e ku i gjejne gjithato brockulla pa 
mbarim qe thone ne menyre konsistente dhe pa turp fare ne kete liste. Eshte 
vertete cudi!

N.q.s. duke besuar tek Islami te zbrazet truri ne menyre aq te frikshme sa e 
kam deshmuar personalisht tek njerez si puna e Ervinit (qe jo qe nuk i 
punojne kandelat njelloj, por nuk ka fare distributor), Ermal Abdi, Fatmir 
Goxhaj, katundari,  etj. (mund te shkruani cfare te doni, te nderuar, nuk me 
ben absolutisht pershtypje ne se vjen nga ju) atehere ne djall vafte, duhet 
te rrime larg nga ajo fe me cdo kusht. Perndryshe prospektet dhe 
shmbelltyrat qe na ka ofruar kjo liste ne kete drejtim jane me te vertete 
shume-shume te frikshme.

Vetem imagjinojeni Shqiperine ku kryeminister eshte nje taleban si Ermal 
Abdi, minister drejtesie nje njeri me aftesi mendore si puna e Ervinit, 
minister arsimi si Olsi (ripunimi i librit te historise do jete gjeja e 
pare), me nje atashe kulturor ne Afghanistan si Fatmiri, kurse ministrine e 
kultures, rinise dhe sporteve e ndajne sebashku *dinhyka* dhe *katundari*. 
Brrrrrrrrrr .... cfare prospekti :-(

Te keqes nuk i duhet ndenjur indiferente ajo eshte si puna e asaj ferres qe 
rritet e rritet rrezes se murit deri sa te ze deren e shtepise e jo vetem qe 
nuk te le me te dalesh por te ze edhe krevatin.

Hajde shendet, dhe gezuar Ramadanin dhe Krishtlindjet o njerez te mire; 
kurse ju te tjeret me siper qe na cate koken

ne menyre fondamentaliste ju vafte shpirti ne xhehenem ku t'jua haje djalli 
te skuqur me pak hudhra, vere te kuqe,

rigon, kajmak qumshti dhe kerpudha - dhe, si muslimane te thekur, te 
mbeshtjelle me ca feta mishi derri.

Inshallah & Amen & ....

Albani

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From Adis68 at aol.com  Tue Dec  5 12:23:21 2000
From: Adis68 at aol.com (Adis68 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 12:23:21 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Cool staff from Afganistan
Message-ID: <b6.e29eef3.275e7e89@aol.com>

Kontaktin e pare me Afganistanin e kam patur shume heret ne femijeri kur 
babai me shpjegoi emrin e nje farefisit tim i cili per arsye ende te paqarta 
per mua koincidon me kryeqytetin e ketij vendi.

Kontaktet e tjera vazhdojne me informacionet e kohes se diktatures per luften 
e drejte te popullit afgan ndaj agresoreve ruse etj etj, dhe para disa vitesh 
me ardhjen ne pushtet te talebaneve, me hedhjet nga dritarja te televizorave 
me mbylljen e kinemave etj, etj.

Nuk e kuptoj c'pune kane shqiptaret te justifikojne talebanet. Ky eshte 
njelloj sikur te justifikosh ritet e ndonje fisi kanibal qe per arsye shume 
te shenjta hane mish njeriu te fresket ose psh qe i dedikojne zotit ndonje 
kurban njeri i cili mbasi behet copa copa me sopata duhet edhe te konsumohet 
sic e do zakoni nga anetaret e fisit.
Nuk e di se cfare lloj idealizmi apo teizmi i rrjedhur mund t'i justifikoje 
keto fenomene.

Meqe ra fjala per Afganistanin ja cfare degjova para pak ditesh ne WBUR radio.

Filmi per popullor ne Afganistan prej shume kohesh eshte Titanic. Videokaseta 
eshte futur ilegalisht dhe ka pasur shume sukses megjithate nga intervistat 
me shikues nuk del e qarte pse pikerisht ky sukses pervec skenave prekese te 
mbytjes se Titanikut qe u permend nga disa te intervistuar. 

Megjithese shfaqja apo marrja me qera e filmit, apo qarkullimi i 
videokasetave eshte i ndaluar, perdorimi per qellime biznesi eshte fare 
legjitim. Ja dhe bizneset e sukseshme qe perdorin emrin e Titanikut:

Emrin e Titanikut mund ta degjosh fillimisht ne tregun e fruta perimeve ku 
mund te degjosh kombinime te tilla si:" Hajde patate titanic, domate titanic 
apo molle titanic
etj etj.

Nje biznes qe ka lulezuar eshte biznesi i embelsirave. Tortat "Titanic" jane 
nga me te shtrenjtat dhe kete jane dyfishuar porosite per to. Torta sigurisht 
eshte nje model i Titanikut ne fazen e mbytjes.

Truck and bus painting: Mbas ndalimit te dekorimit te kamionave dhe 
autobuzave me fytyra njerezish, James Bond, Rocky etj ia leshuan vendin nje 
objekti te pa jete (qe eshte legjitim) Titanikut. Edhe ky biznes eshte ne 
lulezim dhe titaniku duket se eshte per momentin alternativa me e preferuar 
per dekorim.

Nuk ia vlen te permendim t-shirts apo miniatura te Titanikut qe gjendet kudo 
ne treg.

Nderkohe qe afganet vazhdojen te mekatojne, nuk mungon edhe mallkimi i ndonje 
njeriu te shenjte se mekataret do ta pesojne si Titaniku.





From ermal_a at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  5 13:27:51 2000
From: ermal_a at yahoo.com (Ermal Abdi)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet
Message-ID: <20001205182751.2947.qmail@web4106.mail.yahoo.com>

Vete gjuha jote tregon urrejtjen dhe injorancen tende
edhe pse jeton ne perendim dhe na hiqesh si e edukuar.
 See, I don't need the west to educate me.  But I
guess you need it bad.  I feel really sorry for you.
 Me te vertete ndihem keq per ty me email-in tend
pathetic.  Me te vertete do te hiqesh si e edukuar dhe
me kulture duke harruar se po tregon gjithnje e me
shume urrejtjen tende ndaj fese Islame dhe muslimaneve
qe jane 75% e popullsise ne Shqiperi.  Jeni pikerisht
ju si njerez te cilet tregoni sesa mendje mbyllur jeni
se une edhe kur lexoje artikuj qe shajne fene,
Profetin tim te dashur dhe vellezerit e mij muslimane
nuk kthehem aqe eger ndaj ketyre akuzave sic ben ti
per lulin.  Por me te vertete for it makes no
difference with people like you put up all the time. 
I think I can handle one more.

ciao
--- Era18 at aol.com wrote:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 12/4/00 11:00:10 PM Eastern
> Standard Time, Ermal Abdi 
> writes:
> 
> > Jo o luli jo...hallin nuk e kemi tek talibanet e
> >  amerikanet por tek te drejtat e njeriut qe ti me
> shoke
> >  na cani koken nga mengjesi deri ne darke.  Berrr
> berr
> >  sic i thone muhabetit.  
> 
> A eshte kjo nje liste ku pikerisht ai qe
> presupozohet se "te can koken" eshte 
> administratori i saj dhe harxhon kohe nga dita e vet
> qe ta mbaje gjalle dhe 
> qe i duhet te lexoje, do apo s'do, mesazhet e tua
> dhe te tjereve, nderkohe qe 
> ne te tjeret kemi luksin qe t'i fshijme urgjentisht
> sapo jua shohim emrin apo 
> sapo ua ndjejme eren ne kutine e postes? 
> Pse ne djall kjo mungese respekti totale? Pse ne
> djall ky vulgaritet i qelbur 
> shqiptar? Pse ne djall kjo gjuhe e ndyre qe na ben
> te marrim arratine dhe te 
> mos ia shohim bojen atyre rradheve qe ke ti per te
> thene apo kushdo tjeter? 
> Sa vjet neper civilizimet perendimore ju duhen qe te
> mesoni te komunikoni si 
> njerez? Nuk u formua kjo liste dhe nuk preokupohen
> njerez me mirembajtjen e 
> saj qe te dalin ca te pagdhendur e te papune dhe te
> na prishin shijen me nje 
> tufe dokrrash te pasjellshme, qe te provokojne vetem
> nje ndjenje te tille qe 
> mund te te provokojne gishti tregues dhe ai i mesit,
> te dy bashke, te futur 
> thelle ne gryke...
> Rreshtni per nje moment, gjejini vetes ndonje pune
> tjeter dhe na lini te qete 
> perfundimisht se na ka ardhur ne maje te hundes, si
> me dokrrat tuaja islamike 
> ashtu dhe me trajtimet e trasha te cdo teme qe
> merrni persiper apo 
> vulgaritetin tuaj ekstrem. 
> 
> MJAFT !
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club


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From adela at looksmart.com  Tue Dec  5 13:44:30 2000
From: adela at looksmart.com (adela kotoni)
Date: 5 Dec 2000 10:44:30 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20001205184430.4960.cpmta@c006.sfo.cp.net>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/alb-club/attachments/20001205/5daa9b62/attachment.pl 

From tunxhi at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  5 14:10:21 2000
From: tunxhi at yahoo.com (deda tunxhi)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:10:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Sqarime rreth Islamit
Message-ID: <20001205191021.35445.qmail@web10902.mail.yahoo.com>

I pershendes te gjithe anetaret e alb-clubit.
Arsyeja qe po shkruaj eshte se perseri emri Islam po perdoret lart e poshte pa
pergjegjesi nga njerez te ndryshem. Ketu do te komentoj pak edhe nga shkrimi i
Aleksandrit:

Sqarimi i pare qe te gjithe duhet te kuptojne eshte:

ISLAMI NUK ESHTE KOMBESI, TRADITE APO KULTURE POR ESHTE FE.

Prandaj ju lutem kur doni te flisni per Islamin mos merrni per shembull
Talebanet, Turqit , Arabet etj. Se cfare bejne kombe te ndryshme nuk 
perfaqeson Islamin. 
ISLAMI PREZANTOHET NGA KURANI DHE NGA PROFETI( RRUGA, MESIMET ETJ.)

Prandaj per njerez qe pyesin se mos valle myslimatet predikojne qe ne te behemi
si Afganistani apo Irani. Pergjigja eshte JO. Ne predikojme ISLAM DHE JO
AFGANISTANIZM APO IRANIZM.

Meqe shume veta pyesin per te drejtat e grave( une i kam sqruar nje here me
perpara prandaj nuk dua te zgjatem shume) une po i them se cfare predikon
ISLAMI dhe jo se cfare ndodh ne Afganistan apo ne ndonje vend tjeter. Ne ISLAM
femra ka te drejte:

1)Vote
2) Trashegimie
3) Te bej tregeti e bisnes dhe te ardhurat ti mbaj per vete.
4) Burri furnizon familjen 100%. Kurse femra po deshi punon po deshi nuk punon.
5) Ka te drejte te diskutoje dhe te marri pjese ne cdo vendim familjar si e
barabarte me burrin. 
6) etj. ( se nuk du me u zgjat).

Nese keto te drejta i mohohen apo nese gruaja keqtrajtohet atehere nuk kemi te
bejme me ligje ISLAME.  Grate shqiptare apo ato te te gjithe botes nuk kane pse
te frikesohen prej Islamit pasi ai jep atyre te drejta te plota. Keto te drejta
ISLAMI ja ka dhene grave 1400 vjet perpara.  Meqe dikush ketu permendi
ILUMINIZMIN DHE HUMANIZMIN si perparim te Perendimit,  une kam nje pyetje: 
A MUND TE ME THONI SE KUR ARRITI TI MARRE GRUAJA ( NE PERENDIM ) TE DREJTAT QE
GEZON SOT?
I mori  me mundime te medha vetem rreth 70 vjet perpara.

  Prandaj Aleksandri gabohet kur thote :

" Ne 
vendet islamike nuk behet fjale> per perparim - gjysma e njerezve (grate) 
perjashtohen by default nga cdo> aspekt i jetes shoqerore."

Gabimi i pare eshte se sic thashe edhe me lart grate kane cdo te drejte qe te
jene aktive ne shoqeri.

Gabimi i dyte eshte qe ju perdorni fjalen : VENDET ISLAMIKE . Me lejo te te
sqaroj se asnje vend ne bote nuk eshte Islamik.  Te jesh vend islamik do te
thote qe te gjitha ligjet te jene LIGJE ISLAME.  Nuk ka vend Islamik nese ai
vend ka ligje Islame vetem pjeserisht pasi ne kete rast kemi te bejme me
Adoptim te Ligjit Islam dhe kjo i perket edhe rastit te Iranit dhe
Afganistanit. PRANDAJ KETO VENDE NUK JANE ISLAME.
. ISLAMI OSE PRANOHET I GJITHI DHE ASHTU SIC ESHTE( PA BERE NDRYSHIME), OSE NUK
PRANOHET FARE.

Ju lutem mundohuni te jeni pak me te kuptueshem dhe lexoni e mendoni pak me
shume para se te nxirrni konkluzione.

O JU QE E QUANI VETEN TE CIVILIZUAR, QE KENI PERQAFUAR ILUMINIZMIN, HUMANIZMIN
ETJ.  MOS VALLE PO E GJYKONI GRUAN MYSLIMANE NGA MENYRA SESI VISHET?

E po menyra sesi vishesh nuk te ben as me te zgjuar ,as me injorant. Nuk te ben
as me te shtypur e as me te pavarur( se po te ishe keshtu i bjen qe prostitutat
te kishin pamvarasine me te madhe).
O popull mendoni para se shkruani:
 
Kur ato raportet qe vijne nga Afganistani thone qe grate nuk mund te dalin
rrugeve vetem. Grate ne Perendim vene duart ne koke dhe bejne sikur cfare ka
ndodhur. Por mendoni pak me gjate se ne jemi shqiptare dhe e kemi pare ne '97
se cdo te thote lufte( megjithese lufta ne Shqiperi as qe nuk krahasohet me ate
ne Afganistan).
Pa me thoni : SA PREJ JUSH I LININ MOTRAT, GRATE DHE NENAT TUAJA QE TE DILNIN
RRUGEVE VETEM NE ATE KOHE? 
A MOS ISHTE KJO SHTYPJE E TE DREJTAVE TE GRAVE?

 









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From besaarberore at excite.com  Tue Dec  5 14:45:03 2000
From: besaarberore at excite.com (Beso Arberi)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:45:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] feja e Shqiptarit eshte Shqiptaria
Message-ID: <23523469.976045504546.JavaMail.imail@slippery>

Une vete nuk jam anetar I kesaj liste.  Por kjo nuk me ka penguar qe here
pas here te hap e te lexoj artikuj me vlere te shume prej anetarve te saj. 
Pjesmarrja ne kete liste dhe shkrimet e Shtinos, Hashorves, GH, apo humori I
?nene Zenepes? , Yllit etj. e benin kete liste te kendeshme.  Keshtu here
pas here kur kisha kohe, merrja dhe lexoja shkrimet, e natyreshem beja dhe
seleksionim e atyre qe lexoja e atyre qe as merrja mundimin qe ti hapja.  

Fatkeqesisht shoh qe kjo liste kohet e fundit po degradon dhe kjo jo per faj
te administratoreve te saj, apo moderatorit, por per faj te
fondamentalisteve islamike.  Ndonese vete jam musliman, shkrimet e ketyre
islamikeve me bejne qe te skuqem.  Duke respektuar ndjenjen fetare te
gjithkujt ne kete liste, mund te them qe jane pikerisht njerez te tille qe
kane vendosur me cdo kusht shkaterrimin e kultures shqiptare.  Jane keta qe
veshin me perce vajza te vogla ne Shqiperi.  Jane keta e shoket e tyre qe
shkaterruan ikonat e Zografit ne Voskopoje (ate qe nuk e beri dot Enver
Hoxha) se bashku me mesuesin e tyre arab.  Duke shkaterruar keshtu pjese te
trashegimise dhe identitetit tone kulturor.  Tek keta kane gjetur
mbeshtetje, disa fondacione bamirese te dyshimta qe operojne ne Shqiperi, te
cilet vetem ne segmentin Kamze- Fushe Kruje, 20 km te gjate, kane ndertuar
mbi 20 xhami.  Se ku qendron bamirsia e tyre eshte me te vertete per tu
cuditur.  Zoti na mbrojte nga keta djaj.    Mund te them qe pikerisht jane
keta qe ne nje te ardhme mund te behen kontigjent e ushtare te ?holy cause?
dmth te fillojne dhe te vrasin viktima te pafajshme si pleq e femije, ashtu
sikurse kane bere ndervite terroristet islamike. Por e mira do ishte qe keta
te vrisnin veten me mire ashtu sikurse kane bere dhe shume shoke te tyre se
keshtu arrine me shpejt ne parajsen e tyre.   

Ndersa nuk dua te merrem me persona te tilla si Ermal Abdi, apo Olsi, pasi
kam gjera me me vlera per te bere, pasi shkrimet e tyre nuk kane zgjuar
ndonjehere kureshtjen time, ndihem I zhgenjyer nga Ervini. Ne mos gaboj emri
I tij eshte Ervin Hatibi, poeti I ri I cili tronditi boten letrare ne
shqiperi ne mesin e viteve ?80 kur ishte ne nje moshe 15 vjecare.  I
prezantuar atehere ne letersi nga I madhi Kadare, cuditi te tere me fuqine e
vargut te tij.  Pikerisht atehere, dhe shkruesi I ketyre radheve, pat lexuar
dhe pat shijuar pikerisht poezine e Ervinit. Madje dhe pas largimit nga
atdheu, do merrja me vete dhe librin e tij te pare.  Sot ndihem me te
vertete keq pasi tere ate force te cilen e shfrytezon per dicka te kote, do
ishte me mire qe ta shpenzonte per dicka me vlere.  Do I rekomandoja qe ne
vend te atyre shkrimeve te drobitura te mund te conte ndonje poezi per te
kenaqur tere lexuesit e kesaj liste.  

Gjithe te mirat e gezuar festen e Ramadanit, Gezuar hannukah, e gezuar
krishtlindjet.  

Beso 





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From asimeqi at ccs.neu.edu  Tue Dec  5 15:35:18 2000
From: asimeqi at ccs.neu.edu (Artan Simeqi)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 15:35:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <00d501c05ed2$56686840$44bfa0cd@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0012051520530.24219-100000@denali.ccs.neu.edu>


On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, ervin wrote:

> Aleksander intelektuali me gjej pjesen ne Kuran qe thote gruaja e katert e
> Muhammedit ishte 8 vjec.
> Ti jo vetem qe nuk e ke lexuar as biblen as Kuranin por nuk njeh as
> histiorine as matematiken
> 

Vini, po qenke gjenial fare more djale. Une kam kohe qe e njoh kete
Aleksandrin dhe se kisha kuptuar qe ai nuk e njeh histiorine. Pale, po me 
hiqej si intelektual. Shyqyr qe dole ti e na e tregove.
Sa per matematiken, aty kam pak dyshim. Jo per gje po ka qe thone qe ai
mund te jete nder njohesit me te mire te matematikes ne Shqiperi. Po une
nuk mund ta ve doren ne zjarr sepse nuk jam i informuar nese keta te
fundit kane lexuar gje biblen apo Kuranin. Sapo te me bjere ne dore teza e
tij e Ph.D. do te ta dergoj qe ta shikosh.
Po ama histrione nuk e njeh fare ama. As histirone. As edhe hisitrone.



From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  5 15:38:53 2000
From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 20:38:53 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] feja e Shqiptarit eshte Shqiptaria
Message-ID: <F676HfMVur6nzO9OMHf00004e0a@hotmail.com>

Shpresoj qe se shpejti te mendojme te gjithe nen kete fryme.

Shendet.

>From: Beso Arberi <besaarberore at excite.com>
>Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>Subject: [Alb-club] feja e Shqiptarit eshte Shqiptaria
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:45:03 -0800 (PST)
>
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>Une vete nuk jam anetar I kesaj liste.  Por kjo nuk me ka penguar qe here
>pas here te hap e te lexoj artikuj me vlere te shume prej anetarve te saj.
>Pjesmarrja ne kete liste dhe shkrimet e Shtinos, Hashorves, GH, apo humori 
>I
>?nene Zenepes? , Yllit etj. e benin kete liste te kendeshme.  Keshtu here
>pas here kur kisha kohe, merrja dhe lexoja shkrimet, e natyreshem beja dhe
>seleksionim e atyre qe lexoja e atyre qe as merrja mundimin qe ti hapja.
>
>Fatkeqesisht shoh qe kjo liste kohet e fundit po degradon dhe kjo jo per 
>faj
>te administratoreve te saj, apo moderatorit, por per faj te
>fondamentalisteve islamike.  Ndonese vete jam musliman, shkrimet e ketyre
>islamikeve me bejne qe te skuqem.  Duke respektuar ndjenjen fetare te
>gjithkujt ne kete liste, mund te them qe jane pikerisht njerez te tille qe
>kane vendosur me cdo kusht shkaterrimin e kultures shqiptare.  Jane keta qe
>veshin me perce vajza te vogla ne Shqiperi.  Jane keta e shoket e tyre qe
>shkaterruan ikonat e Zografit ne Voskopoje (ate qe nuk e beri dot Enver
>Hoxha) se bashku me mesuesin e tyre arab.  Duke shkaterruar keshtu pjese te
>trashegimise dhe identitetit tone kulturor.  Tek keta kane gjetur
>mbeshtetje, disa fondacione bamirese te dyshimta qe operojne ne Shqiperi, 
>te
>cilet vetem ne segmentin Kamze- Fushe Kruje, 20 km te gjate, kane ndertuar
>mbi 20 xhami.  Se ku qendron bamirsia e tyre eshte me te vertete per tu
>cuditur.  Zoti na mbrojte nga keta djaj.    Mund te them qe pikerisht jane
>keta qe ne nje te ardhme mund te behen kontigjent e ushtare te ?holy cause?
>dmth te fillojne dhe te vrasin viktima te pafajshme si pleq e femije, ashtu
>sikurse kane bere ndervite terroristet islamike. Por e mira do ishte qe 
>keta
>te vrisnin veten me mire ashtu sikurse kane bere dhe shume shoke te tyre se
>keshtu arrine me shpejt ne parajsen e tyre.
>
>Ndersa nuk dua te merrem me persona te tilla si Ermal Abdi, apo Olsi, pasi
>kam gjera me me vlera per te bere, pasi shkrimet e tyre nuk kane zgjuar
>ndonjehere kureshtjen time, ndihem I zhgenjyer nga Ervini. Ne mos gaboj 
>emri
>I tij eshte Ervin Hatibi, poeti I ri I cili tronditi boten letrare ne
>shqiperi ne mesin e viteve ?80 kur ishte ne nje moshe 15 vjecare.  I
>prezantuar atehere ne letersi nga I madhi Kadare, cuditi te tere me fuqine 
>e
>vargut te tij.  Pikerisht atehere, dhe shkruesi I ketyre radheve, pat 
>lexuar
>dhe pat shijuar pikerisht poezine e Ervinit. Madje dhe pas largimit nga
>atdheu, do merrja me vete dhe librin e tij te pare.  Sot ndihem me te
>vertete keq pasi tere ate force te cilen e shfrytezon per dicka te kote, do
>ishte me mire qe ta shpenzonte per dicka me vlere.  Do I rekomandoja qe ne
>vend te atyre shkrimeve te drobitura te mund te conte ndonje poezi per te
>kenaqur tere lexuesit e kesaj liste.
>
>Gjithe te mirat e gezuar festen e Ramadanit, Gezuar hannukah, e gezuar
>krishtlindjet.
>
>Beso
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Tired of slow Internet? Get @Home Broadband Internet
>http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
>
>***Alb-Club***
>____________________________________________________
>Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
>http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club

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From ydemneri at club-internet.fr  Tue Dec  5 15:35:59 2000
From: ydemneri at club-internet.fr (Hall Qomili)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 21:35:59 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] A l'attention de Mme 35
Message-ID: <B653103F.ECD%ydemneri@club-internet.fr>

Madame 35,
Je n'arrive pas ? comprendre votre d?lire. Personnellement, je ne suis pas
au courant de cette histoire de "jeshil". Je pense que vous me  confondez
avec quelqu'un d'autre. Pourquoi etes-vous si agressive ch?re Madame ?
Quelles sont les raisons de cette haine qui vous habite depui si longtemps ?
Si vous avez des probl?mes, je vous invite ? chanter ensemble une chanson de
Xhevrije. Elle ?tait notre femme de m?nage autrefois. Elle habitait ? Braka.
Quand on ?tait petite, on a pass? des moments inoubliables avec ma ch?re et
tendre Xhevrije. Je regrette de ne pas ?tre influenc?e comme vous par
l'esth?tique du r?alisme socialiste et de n'avoir pas pu danser "Vallen e
shpatave". 
Voici l'une des chansons de Xhevrije :
Byrek, byrek 
O usta Murat
Katrer copa 
Bojne dy lek
O usta Murat

Ke dyqoni 
Ke selvia
O usta Murat
Hyte Caja
Dilte Cija
O usta Murat

ou une autre :
Erdhi nona prej Shijaku
E gjeti Cijen shtru n'karjoll
C'te ka gjet mi Cija e nones
Te ka nona si koqe molle

Je regrette aussi de ne pas satisfaire vos oreilles d?licats, mais je vous
envoie cette chanson de Jacques Brel qui peut-etre va vous plaire:

Madame promene son cul sur les remparts de Varsovie
Madame promene son coeur sur les ringards de sa folie
Madame promene son ombre sur les grand-places de l'Italie
Je trouve que Madame vit sa vie
Madame promene a cheval ses etats d'ame et ses lubies
Madame promene un con qui assure que madame est Jolie
Je trouve que Madame est servie.

Veuillez , agr?er Madame, l'expression de mes sentiments distingu?s.
Hall Qomili 


From mondib at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  5 16:35:13 2000
From: mondib at yahoo.com (edmond baho)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 13:35:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Besa shqiptare
Message-ID: <20001205213513.17249.qmail@web6203.mail.yahoo.com>

diana35_1 at yahoo.com wrote:

> ujt  ia jep fjalen shqiptari ?
>  Sigurisht mikut dhe jo armikut, sigurisht nje
>  shqiptari tjeter. Pse duhet te therre djalen shqiptari
>  A ? Per t?i mbushur mendjen shqiptarit B se s?kish
>  asnje menyre ta mbante fjalen, qe ai tjetri mos
>  kujtoje se ia beri me hile. Pra shqiptari ka frike nga
>  shqiptari, nuk ka besim tek shqiptari deri sa nje
>  prove e tille si therrja e djalit kerkohet per te
>  ruajtur miqesine. Maredheniet primitive te sakrificave
>  te kohes se parakrishtit, jo vetem qe jane ruajtur ne
>  shqiperi, por edhe transformuar ne maredhenie midis
>  njerezish dhe jo midis njerzve dhe hyjnive. Frika nga
>  Zoti eshte shprehur e transformuar ne frike per MIKUN.
>  Nuk iu duket se ne shqiptaret nuk jemi vecse
>  MIKFEARING ose mbase edhe SHQIPTARFEARING?! Ose
>  thjesht frikacake qe s?kemi besim ne vetvete?


Ore njerez!

Do me gjeni nje shqiptar juve qe e ka therrur djalin apo do rrahim uje
ne havane me filozofira dhe efekte fjalesh kot se koti?
Pastaj, fjala e urte nuk thote " po s'e mbajta fjalen, do therr djalen"
por thote:
" po ta dhashe fjalen se do e therr edhe djalen, do e mbaj!" Pra me
qarte: " Per cfaredo qe te ta jap fjalen, edhe sikur kjo fjale te
kerkoje sakrifice sublime nga ana ime, do ta mbaj, persa kohe qe une ta
kam dhene ate!"

Mjaft na cuditet me venien ne dyshim te cdo fjale te urte duke ia futur
kot.
Pastaj imagjino me cfare merreni, tamam me ate gje qe do duhej te ishte
krenari dhe jo turp. Ne amerike, gjeja e pare qe te mesojne ne boten e
biznesit eshte: Mbaj fjalen" ose " Ji aq i mencur sa te mos e japesh
kurre fjalen per dicka qe s'je i sigurt se do e mbash" Vetem keshtu
krijohet kredibilitet tek te tjeret, kur fjala jote ka peshe dhe nuk
eshte nje fjale e dhene sa per te kaluar nje moment te veshtire ne
marrdheniet me njerezit apo sa per te arritur nje qellim te caktuar dhe
pastaj pa piken e turpit te thuash qe s'e mbajte dot.

Tamam ato elemente qe do duhej te ishin bazat e integritetit te nje
nejriu te rritur ju po na i zhvleresoni dhe ju duket sikur po beni
letersine e madhe. 

Shendet dhe ju JAP FJALEN qe po s'filloi moderatori te tregohet ca me i
kursyer me mbrockullat qe lejon, qe nga ato islamiste deri tek ato
egzibicionisto-intelektualiste, une s'rri te merrem me me kete liste.

Edmond Baho

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From xhuliana at usa.net  Tue Dec  5 18:05:51 2000
From: xhuliana at usa.net (xhuliana at usa.net)
Date: Tue,  5 Dec 2000 18:05:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Alb-club] NYTimes.com Article: Right to Sue Is Backed in Sex-Bias Crimes
Message-ID: <20001205230551.547B458A60@email5.lga2.nytimes.com>

This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by xhuliana xhuliana at usa.net.

alb-club



xhuliana
xhuliana at usa.net

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Right to Sue Is Backed in Sex-Bias Crimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/01/nyregion/01DOME.html

December 1, 2000

By NINA BERNSTEIN

New York City would become the first jurisdiction in the country to
grant victims of rape, domestic violence and other crimes
"motivated by gender" a broad civil right to sue their attackers
under a bill unanimously passed by a City Council committee
yesterday.

 The measure, which Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani is expected to sign
into law, seizes the opportunity left open six months ago when the
United States Supreme Court struck down a similar provision in a
1994 federal law known as the Violence Against Women Act, ruling 5
to 4 that the general power to regulate crime resides with states
and localities, not with Congress. The bill was co-sponsored by at
least 33 Council members, giving it more than enough votes to pass
when the full Council considers the measure on Tuesday.

 The local measure goes further than current state laws by allowing
victims of such violence up to seven years to bring suit, rather
than one to two years, and permitting them to seek lawyers' fees
and punitive damages as well as compensation.

 "Examples of the way gender bias infuses crimes such as domestic
violence, sexual assault and stalking abound," Julie Goldscheid,
acting legal director of the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund,
told members of the Council's General Welfare Committee, which
passed the bill onto the full Council. "Who can forget the horrific
images of women being assaulted by gangs of cheering men displayed
continuously on the news after the Puerto Rican Day parade in this
city?"

 Privately, some Republican Council members were critical of the
proposed law, because they see it as treating some victims of crime
better than others, or as benefiting lawyers more than victims.
"But nobody wants to be caught voting against this one," a
Republican Council member said, speaking on the condition of
anonymity. "It'll come back to haunt you that you opposed a law
protecting women from crime."

 The text of the proposed law states that Congress and the United
States Department of Justice concluded after many hearings and
studies that "victims of gender-motivated violence frequently face
a climate of condescension, indifference and hostility in the court
system." By establishing a private, civil right of action, the law
tries to provide "an officially sanctioned and legitimate cause of
action for seeking redress for injuries resulting from
gender-motivated violence," regardless of sex or sexual
orientation, the text says.

 Unlike overall crime in the city, domestic-violence incidents have
not dropped. According to the Mayor's Management Report, the Police
Department made 23,935 family-related arrests in the fiscal year
that ended in June and 4,012 arrests for violations of orders of
protection. Domestic-incident reports totaled 252,902. In 1999, the
police reported 87 homicides related to domestic violence. 

 Advocates of the proposed law said that while state law already
allowed battered women, like any other injured party, to sue for
damages, the courts had often not been sympathetic in
domestic-violence cases, and that a long history of bias against
women in case law and a one-year statute of limitations on civil
suits involving assault made it exceedingly difficult to pursue
relief that way. 

 Dorchen A. Leidholt, director of the Sanctuary for Families Center
for Battered Women, said that domestic-violence felonies were
typically reduced to misdemeanors, and misdemeanors to violations,
and that though restitution was always a sentencing option, it was
rarely used. In divorces, judges are often hostile to women who
seek economic redress for injuries from abusive husbands, she said.

 Ms. Leidholt cited the case of "the unfortunate Elmhurst woman
who in 1998 was fined $5,000 by an irate Supreme Court justice for
filing a personal injury suit against her husband for beating her
with a broom" when she was unable to prove conclusively that the
beating was the cause of her herniated disk.

 Under the proposed law, plaintiffs must prove by a preponderance
of the evidence that the acts involved were not random acts of
violence but were motivated by gender. In about 60 cases handled by
federal courts around the country before the Supreme Court ruling,
that burden was typically met through what one federal judge listed
as "gender-specific epithets; acts that perpetuated stereotypes of
women's submissive role; attacks during pregnancy and at times when
plaintiff asserted her independence." 
      


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http://www.nytimes.com

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From personae_non_grata at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  5 19:41:06 2000
From: personae_non_grata at yahoo.com (personae non)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:41:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Gore, Lieberman on drunken rampage after certification of
Message-ID: <20001206004106.11814.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>



SWAT teams and FBI agents were put on alert after it
was announced Sunday night that George W. Bush and
Dick Cheney had carried the state of Florida after an
exhausting recount of ballots in the state. 

According to witnesses, Gore and Lieberman were
drinking heavily at a Washington D.C. topless club
when local and national television networks broke the
news.

Several witnesses who were interviewed reported Gore
hung his head on the bar, began moaning "..those
cheating bastards. It's mine, dammit. Mine. MINE!!"

Several patrons at the Twirling Pasties nightclub said
Gore went into a frenzy, hurling shot glasses at the
jukebox while Lieberman ripped a stripper pole from
the stage and threatened to insert it rectally upon
any bouncer preventing their exit.

Both Gore and Lieberman then fled into the chilly
Washington DC night.

An FBI agent who wished to remain unidentified told
reporters "He tore out of here with a major wild hair
up his ass. Lieberman said something about 'cramming
this friggin pole up Cheney's ass.' We have fellow FBI
agents on alert in Austin, Texas should they try to
follow through on their drunken temper tantrum."

The Bush campaign spokesperson had no comment other
than "If that smelly drunken bastard and his sidekick
wanna come on down here to Texas to mix it up, bring
it on. There ain't nothin' between us but air and 
opportunity."



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From epiphanius at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  5 22:00:33 2000
From: epiphanius at yahoo.com (Dan Khazar)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:00:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Deja-Vu
Message-ID: <20001206030033.18675.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com>

DEJA-VU
(a very short story)

Soft jazz in the back, the quartet know what they?re
doing, they play not too loud to avoid intruding, but
loud enough to fill in all the awkward pauses. Three
of the musicians are Afros.
?Got this impression I?ve seen this guy before,? she
whispers.
Of course she hasn?t, because ? in a sense ? the guy
looks so familiar, that we all might have. Typical
yuppie, brandishing his wrinkled tie as a symbol for
another hard-working day in the life; his
genuine-leather briefcase certainly tucked somewhere
between his legs and his partner?s. 
?He?s been around for some time,? I reply, evasively.
?Small fish, nobody really cares for his name. Trying
to beat anonymity with ubiquity.?
She tries to let me believe she?s pondering my words,
though I know she?s just trying to empty her mind, in
order to enjoy the soundtrack. 
What?s in the alto saxophone that makes us struggle
with an overwhelming surge of self-pity? Vague
memories of late nights on the beach, pungent smell of
lager beer spilled over the wooden floor of a dancing
hall, boat lights flickering and floating with the
timid waves licking the shore?
?What?s in the alto saxophone that makes us struggle
with an overwhelming surge of self-pity?? I ask. 
?And why are you talking like an overshot reviewer at
Amazon.com?? she retorts. 
?I like the music,? I say, not minding. As a matter of
fact, I wanted to sound pompous, and I managed to. So
much for self-pity. ?I like the atmosphere. I only
can?t figure out why. It?s the why that keeps the
whole from being perfect.?
?You have never taken me in a place like this,? she
complains in my ear.
?A place like this doesn?t exist,? I explain. ?What
you see, is the essence of many places, scattered all
around the world. A collective dream.?
?Not even in a dream,? she insists.
?Not even in a dream,? I admit.
Suddenly the door swings open, two gentlemen in felt
hats and white raincoats enter the bar, steely and
professional. They have taken out their guns now ? as
expected; a shot is heard, then another one, finally a
single, piercing scream. 
Haven?t I heard this scream before?
The typical yuppie is lying with his face sideways on
the floor, rivulets of blood sipping against his
girlfriend?s expensive shoe. 
?Didn?t have a chance to utter a single word,? I say,
self-pitying him. ?Again.?
The quartet takes a while to absorb the shock and stop
playing their Ellington, it?s too late to change
anything, anyway.
?That?s the trouble with a film noir,? she sighs. ?The
bar scenes are always too short for my taste.?

(c) 2000 Dan Khazar



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From KNdreu3207 at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 00:31:41 2000
From: KNdreu3207 at aol.com (KNdreu3207 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:31:41 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] VEZA E SKUQUR
Message-ID: <6d.c6a3316.275f293d@aol.com>

    VEZA E SKUQUR

E di qe nuk jam poet
Bile dhe shqipen zyrtare 
Mire se zoteroj
Por kur vezen e skuq
Art dua te krijoj !
Gjalpin e nxej shume
Kripen me karar
Dhe e mbuloj .
Kur behet e hap
Piper i shtoj
Dhe ashtu te ngrohte 
E shijoj !


Nick
Wildwood,7/1998


From KNdreu3207 at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 00:40:48 2000
From: KNdreu3207 at aol.com (KNdreu3207 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 00:40:48 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] SA GABIM !
Message-ID: <9a.cf9f3bd.275f2b60@aol.com>

   SA GABIM !

Dhe pse duheshin
Ne erresire ato s'thane nje fjale
Moment me i mire kurre s'do te vinte
Ishte pothuaj mesnate , Maj
Kur u ndane
E kur erresira ne jeten e tyre
Pergjithmone do te binte .


Nick
Tirane ,1980


From pifto at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 01:20:44 2000
From: pifto at hotmail.com (GH)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:20:44 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Besa shqiptare
References: <20001205213513.17249.qmail@web6203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OE62eip68V8zDv60gxa000050e5@hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "edmond baho" <mondib at yahoo.com>


    << Ore njerez! Do me gjeni nje shqiptar juve qe e ka therrur djalin apo
do rrahim uje
ne havane me filozofira dhe efekte fjalesh kot se koti? Pastaj, fjala e urte
nuk thote " po s'e mbajta fjalen, do therr djalen" por thote: " po ta dhashe
fjalen se do e therr edhe djalen, do e mbaj!" Pra me qarte: " Per cfaredo qe
te ta jap fjalen, edhe sikur kjo fjale te kerkoje sakrifice sublime nga ana
ime, do ta mbaj, persa kohe qe une ta kam dhene ate!"  Mjaft na cuditet me
venien ne dyshim te cdo fjale te urte duke ia futur kot. Pastaj imagjino me
cfare merreni, tamam me ate gje qe do duhej te ishte krenari dhe jo turp. Ne
amerike, gjeja e pare qe te mesojne ne boten e biznesit eshte: Mbaj fjalen"
ose " Ji aq i mencur sa te mos e japesh
kurre fjalen per dicka qe s'je i sigurt se do e mbash" Vetem keshtu krijohet
kredibilitet tek te tjeret, kur fjala jote ka peshe dhe nuk eshte nje fjale
e dhene sa per te kaluar nje moment te veshtire ne marrdheniet me njerezit
apo sa per te arritur nje qellim te caktuar dhe pastaj pa piken e turpit te
thuash qe s'e mbajte dot. Tamam ato elemente qe do duhej te ishin bazat e
integritetit te nje nejriu te rritur ju po na i zhvleresoni dhe ju duket
sikur po beni letersine e madhe. Shendet dhe ju JAP FJALEN qe po s'filloi
moderatori te tregohet ca me i kursyer me mbrockullat qe lejon, qe nga ato
islamiste deri tek ato egzibicionisto-intelektualiste, une s'rri te merrem
me me kete liste. Edmond Baho >>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dashur Edmond Baho,


qellimi i shkrimit ishte denoncimi i dhunes psiqike te ushtruar gjate
edukimit te femijeve shqiptare nepermjet formulimeve kaq makabre, si dhe
hipokrizine e tregut shqiptar te premtimeve. Ne menyre qe gjerat te mos
shkruhen kaq thate, dikush ulet dhe harxhon dikur nje gjysem dite, ne menyre
qe kjo liste te mos perfundoje ne nje kend fleterrufesh, apo qe informacioni
i transmetuar prej saj te konsistoje ne lajme kaq komplekse si: "Sivjet
Partizani luan ne kategorine e dyte. Kaq." apo "EB & AnilaM001 were here!
The end of the message (story?!)."  Perndryshe te lutem shkruaj edhe ti
dicka qe te alternoje mbrockullat nga ato islamiste deri tek ato
egzibicionisto-intelektualiste qe lejon moderatori, ne menyre qe te tjeret,
te jene ne gjendje edhe te vlersojne mjaftueshem dramaticitetin e
rrethanave, kur ti kercenon me bojkotimin e alb-club.

te fala


GH





From traboini at erols.com  Wed Dec  6 01:26:03 2000
From: traboini at erols.com (traboini at erols.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 02:26:03 -0400
Subject: [Alb-club] Letra e nje emigranti nga USA
Message-ID: <3A2DDBFB.6097@erols.com>

"Shqiptare, largoni sharlatanet"

Letra e nje emigranti ne Shtetet e Bashkuara te Amerikes

Une qe po ju shkruaj nga larg i perkas plejades se studenteve 
te dhjetorit, ku u thuren shume endrra, per te bere ate 
Shqiperi qe u duhet te gjalleve. Ne shpresonim se do ta 
nxirrnim shpejt Shqiperine nga sketerra komuniste. Por 
fatkeqesisht edhe se kane kaluar 10 vjet, ajo ka mbetur 
atje ku ishte ne mos me keq, prandaj kjo eshte arsyeja 
qe rinia dhe inteligjenca e kombit po rrjedh
dite per dite, duke kerkuar te begatohet ne vende te huaja. 
E gjithe kjo sepse ne Shqiperi demokracia eshte uzurpuar 
nga ca sharlatane, ca kolltukofage qe per hir te interesave 
te tyre te ngushta nuk shikojne me tej.

 Zoterinj politikane dhe pushtetare, pse nuk udhehiqeni 
nga parimet e botes se zhvilluar, por moret  rrugen e satanit.
Korrupsion, prishje dhe shkaterrime, prostitucion, droge, 
nje mashtrim skrupuloz,  ku ligjin e interpreton "Maliqi" 
sipas interesave te veta, te grupeve apo partive. Qendroni 
o ju  "idhuj" te drejtesise, mendoni pak se ku po shkoni. 

 Dilni para popullit jo per te denigruar njeri-tjetrin, por per 
alternativa me te mira. Kete fushate elektorale, vume re se 
PD-ja nuk kishte alternativa por vulgaritet, sharje, kercenime 
per burgje,  ruspa e tritol. Per fat te keq kjo ishte gjuha e 
liderit kryesor z.Berisha. Jo z.Berisha, kjo nuk ka te beje 
me parimet e shenjta te demokracise, kjo gjuhe e tremb 
demokracine. 

Mesa duket ju po e ktheni PD-ne ne pronen tuaj, 
duke imponuar metodat komuniste. 

Te jemi realiste krejt ndryshe u paraqit PS-ja, fale 
zotit Ilir Meta dhe Edi Rama, u duk fushata me 
konkrete, me me shprese per te ardhmen ne Shqiperi. 
Por prape, e pranueshme sepse e keqja me
e vogel, sofizmat e z.Nano qe eshte ne krye te 
partise ne pushtet, nuk mban dot nje lagje pale 
te ndertosh nje shtet. Shteti duhet te jete shtet 
qe udhehiqet nga parimet me ligjet kushtetuese. 
Kjo eshte e detyruar per presidentin, milionerin 
dhe popullin.

Zgjatja e tranzicionit apo sundimi i mbrapeshtirave 
do te sundojne ende, perderisa partite pozitare
dhe opozitare te shkelin mbi ligjet dhe ta denojne
 njeri-tjetrin moralisht dhe jo ligjerisht. Kjo do te
thote me ruaj ti sot qe te ruaj une neser dhe keshtu 
sundimi do te vazhdoje nepermjet krimit.

Duzina me ministra jane hequr per korrupsion, po le 
te permendim me te fundit si Bufi, Hajdaraga, Apostoli 
e shume te tjere, te cilet na qenkan te imunizuar ndaj ligjit 
dhe vazhdojne te bejne politik  te "madhe". Jo keshtu nuk ka 
per t'u ndertuar demokracia ne Shqiperi kurre.
Zinxhiri i fenomeneve ne Shqiperi eshte shume i komplikuar: 
nuk funksionojne organet e drejtesise, nje nga pushtetet
 kryesore qe mban shtetin. Si mund te kuptohet ndryshe 
qe krimineli dhe i korruptuari del gjithmon i "pafajshem" dhe i 
pafajshmi denohet dhe nuk mund te gjej asgjekund 
drejtesi dhe kjo sepse prokuror, gjyqtar e avokat jane 
te lidhur me njeri-tjetrin ne te gjitha hallkat. Une kam 
punuar e jetuar ne Greqi per nje kohe te gjate, si piktor me 
kontrate ne nje manastir, nuk e mohoj qe kisha nje pune me 
leverdi, por m'u permbysen planet. Kur u vra udheheqesi 
shpirteror i demokracise z.Azem Hajdari, u ndodha ne Shqiperi. 
E kisha shok dhe u pikellova pa mase per kete vrasje mostruoze. 
Mora pjese ne ceremonine mortore dhe nuk e mohoj qe i revoltuar, 
se bashku me shume te tjere jam radhitur ne krye te kortezhit. 
Ecnim andej nga na drejtonte njeri qe kishte qene ambasador 
ne France dhe ne Algjeri qe ishte i protokollit, sigurisht qe 
protestonim, por nuk kemi kryer asnje veprim te kundraligjshem, 
se plaku per kete garantoj veten.

Megjithate, une kerkohem per ndjekje penale per pjesemarrje 
ne grusht shteti. Ne Greqi gjithashtu u bera i padeshirueshem 
per arsye se atje se bashku me disa shoke organizuam dy 
protesta ne mbrojtje te emigranteve shqiptare qe ne Greqi 
trajtohen mizorisht. Une, personalisht kam dhene dhe 
dy intervista ne televizionet greke tek Skai dhe Mega, 
nepermjet te cilave kam demaskuar qendrimin antinjerezor 
qe mbahet ndaj emigracionit shqiptar, per keto disponoj dhe 
video tape. Per keto policia greke me grisi pasaporten dhe nuk 
mund te qendroja me atje, ne Shqiperi ndiqem edhe sot 
penalisht per gjoja grushtin e shtetit dhe keto per fatin tim 
te mire apo te keq me sollen ne Amerike.

Une jam nje intelektual qe luftoja per demokracine 
e vertet dhe kur nuk me ka shkuar ne mend te
ngrija dore kunder shtetit tim. Megjithate kur 
te vendoset drejtesia e vertete, jam i sigurte se do te
shkarkohem nga kjo e ashtuquajtur pergjegjesi.
Qellimi i ketij shkrimi nuk ishte sa shpjegova per vete, 
por revolta e imja dhe e shokeve te mi per zhvillimet 
tek ne ne Shqiperi. 

Pse keshtu, pse nuk marrim dhe te zbatojme keshillat 
e miqve te mi Amerika e do Shqiperine, por
ne nuk duam veten. Perse nuk zbatojme nje minimum 
te te drejtave te njeriut qe zbatohen ketu,
ku njeriu e ndien veten njeri i sigurte per cdo hap 
qe hedh, pa strese, pa krime, e mbi te gjitha pa
frike per te ardhmen.

Zoterinj partiake apo pushtetare, ndaloni, mos shkoni 
me tej, ndaloni sa nuk eshte vone se kjo e ashtuquajtur 
politike qe beni ju, na kujton luften e klasave, ne mos 
eshte me shume se lufte klasash, lufta politike ne demokraci 
do te thote loje elektorale me diplomaci, me kulture qe te
fitoje alternativa me e mire.

                                Ilir Zeneli 
 
 marre nga Koha Jone 12/05/2000
        K.Traboini


From traboini at erols.com  Wed Dec  6 02:46:08 2000
From: traboini at erols.com (traboini at erols.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 03:46:08 -0400
Subject: [Alb-club] Perkushtimi fetar nuk e duron dot hipokrizine...
Message-ID: <3A2DEEBF.3038@erols.com>

I nderuar poet Ervin Hatibi

Leri komentet si te ishe nje propogandist i rendomte
i islamizmit dhe merru me poezite se vertete ne poezi 
ke talent te vertete.
Ndjeva kenaqesi dje, kur duke lexuar nje interviste te 
shokut tim te vjeter te fakultetit dhe te Kinostudios, 
shkrimtarit Bashkim Hoxha ne gazeten "Koha Jone"
 e ku permendete edhe emrin tend si poet i talentuar.
  Sikur Baci( Bashkimi) por dhe shkrimtaret e tjere 
dashamiresit te talentit tend, te kishin kontakt me 
keto mesazhet e tua te rendomta fetare, ku i thuren 
hymne Lindjes se pazhvilluar e cila eshte e mbytur nga 
injoranca e, qe  ndryshe nga se ti e spjegon,
ndodhet edhe nen kanosjen e fundamentalizmit islamik,
i cili qe nga Algjeria ne Turqi, Afganistan,Iran,A.Saudi
dhe ne mbare boten Arabe kerkojne te uzurpojne shtetet 
dhe qeverite, dhe kercenojne me cfarosjen e kultures europiane, 
do te ndjenin vertete nje dhembje tragjike per ty. Sepse humbet 
poeti nen callme e raso... kur historia e letersise shqipe ka 
njohur te kunderten, qe, qe poshte callmes e rasos eshte 
ndjere zemra atdhetare e poetit...   
   Kisha degjuar se tu ka bere mendja callme orjenti, 
mirpo nuk e kisha besuar, dhe ja per fat te keq 
ne kete forum te Alba-Clubit zeri yt shfaqet i 
bashkuar me korin e murmurimave  konfuze e coroditese
orjentale, qe u bien daulleve te shiut per mjerimin e kombit 
shqiptar.
  Per ta Skenderbeu eshte nje qafir, nje tradhetar qe 
ka vrare "vllezrit" e vet te nje feje( pushtuesit osmane)
dhe per kete thone se i digjet shpirti ne ferr.
   Te tille dokrra idiote jemi te detyruar te degjojme e duke 
shkuar me tej kur thone se ardhmja e Amerikes eshte 
Islamizmi, apo kur ti thua se  "Usa nuk eshte nje shtet 
kristian eshte shtet laik".
  Dihet qe USA eshte nje shtet demokratik dhe demokracia
u krijon kushte njerezeve te kene ide e besime qe parapelqejne
pa kurrfare diktati apo presioni psikologjik apo fizik.
    Mirepo pavaresisht prej saj, ne SHBA ka vetem nje feste fetare 
zyrtare qe festohen me madheshti dhe kjo eshte Krishtlindja,dhe 
shprehja baze e te gjithe amerikaneve eshte 
"O Zot bekoje Ameriken!" dhe ne te gjitha monedhat e 
kartmonedhat amerikane shkruhet " IN GOD WE TRUST"
dhe kete duhet ta dish se nuk ka njeri ne bote qe te 
mos e kete pare dollarin amerikan.
  Prandaj i dashur poet, qe me fjalen tende te ndjeshme 
di te prekesh ndjenjat njerezore, beso ne religjonin tend
fetar,falu e perdellohu brenda shpirtit tend e jo duke 
bere deklarata publike, sepse keshtu cdo gje tingellon fallce 
dhe te krijohet pershtypja se feja nga disa militant eshte 
si nje ballo me maska, ku pas miresise e fytyres engjellore 
fshihen shume te zeza te kesaj bote.
   Perkushtimi fetar nuk e duron dot hipokrizine, as pompen,
as daullet, as cirrjet e rrahjet e gjoksit dhe aq me teper 
tollumbacet ngjyra. 
  
 K.Traboini


From albana at zool.unizh.ch  Wed Dec  6 04:13:04 2000
From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:13:04 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Cobani, delja dhe e drejta njerezore e vetevendosjes
In-Reply-To: <200012052039.eB5KdWA23346@alb-net.com>
References: <200012052039.eB5KdWA23346@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <a04310100b653b116ce1c@[130.60.132.46]>

>Pa me thoni : SA PREJ JUSH I LININ MOTRAT, GRATE DHE NENAT TUAJA QE TE DILNIN
>RRUGEVE VETEM NE ATE KOHE? A MOS ISHTE KJO SHTYPJE E TE DREJTAVE TE GRAVE?

A me thuaj te lutem, a te shkon ty ndonjehere nder mendje qe babai, 
vellai apo burri nuk jane pronaret e nenave, grave apo motrave dhe, 
si te tille, nuk jane  ne poziten per t'i lene apo mos lene ato te 
bejne dicka? A te shkon ty ndonjehere ndermend qe nenat, grate, 
motrat, per sa kohe qe e kane mbushur moshen e votimit (ashtu si edhe 
baballaret, burrat dhe vellezerit) marrin pergjegjesine e jetes se 
tyre ne duart e tyre, ecin me kembet e tyre, mendojne me mendjen e 
tyre dhe marrin vendime vete per jeten e tyre. As nje burre nuk mund 
te marri vendime per jeten e gruas ashtu sic as edhe nje grua nuk 
merr vendime per jeten e nje burri.

Te mos e lesh nenen, gruan apo vajzen te dale ne rruge, NE CFARE DO 
LLOJ KOHE, eshte shtypje e te drejtes se grave per te vendosur vete 
se kur dhe sa here duan te dalin perjashta, apo sa here dhe kur duan 
te hyjne brenda. Per te mos thene qe eshte nje perpjekje direkte per 
te diskualifikuar cilesine e vendimeve qe gruaja merr per veten e 
saj, duke i kundervene cilesine absolute te vendimeve mashkullore (si 
cobani i kopese).

Burri nuk eshte coban i gruas dhe gruaja nuk eshte delja e burrit. Te 
dy jane ne gjendje te vendosin vete per drejtimet e jetes se tyre, 
ashtu sic jane ne gjendje edhe te vendosin te jetojne bashke duke 
respektuar integritetin social e politik reciprok.


albana


From traboini at erols.com  Wed Dec  6 03:19:09 2000
From: traboini at erols.com (traboini at erols.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 04:19:09 -0400
Subject: [Alb-club] Bedri Myftari spiun?!
Message-ID: <3A2DF67B.2A58@erols.com>

Me qe Bedri Myftarin( camin e vogel), autorin e 
"Fluturzave te bores" e kam njohur qysh me 1968,
perpara se te perfundonte nga "Zeri i Rines"  ne burg,
jam i interesuar te di se mbi cfare bazash ngrihet 
dyshimi i spiunit te sigurimit.
 Cfare eshte shkruar ne shtypin shqiptar?
 Dhe kush prej gazetareve, shkrimtareve, politikareve
 ka mbetur pa dale spiun ne Shqiperi.
   
    Kola

|Subject: Re: [Alb-club] Stanari nga Skrapari i gjan Stalinit
|From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Kastriot_=C7ipi?= <pegas at albmail.com>
|
|O Kol,
|merr shkrime nga te duash, vetem te lutem mos posto ketu 
|ato te ish-spiuneve te Sigurimit.
|E di si eshte puna? Une psh, nuk kisha drita mbreme qysh 
|nga 11-ta e nates, deri sot ne mengjes, pastaj prape pa drita 
|gjithe paraditen, gjithe mbremjen dhe kam frike se prape nuk 
|do te kem naten. Me vjen te dal para pallatit e te provokoj 
|ndonje miting proteste per mungesen e dritave me 
|bashkevuajtesit e bllokut tim. Por e di pse nuk e bej? Sepse 
|e di qe do te vije me vrap ky birboja e te krreje ndonje shkrim 
|tek "55"-sa...dhe mua ende nuk me ka rene inati me keta 
|spiunet e lashte te Sigurimit, qe tani betohen se jane 
|demokrate te djathte...
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: kol pal
|To: alb-club at alb-net.com
|Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:31 AM
|Subject: [Alb-club] Stanari nga Skrapari i gjan Stalinit
|
|Meta do ket? fund tragjik
| 
|Bedri Myftari


From xhuliana at usa.net  Wed Dec  6 05:23:29 2000
From: xhuliana at usa.net (Xh.A.)
Date: 6 Dec 00 05:23:29 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Re:Islam/Ervinit
Message-ID: <20001206102329.6401.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net>

"Deshmoj se nuk ka te adhuruar tjeter pervec Allahut,dhe deshmoj se Muhammedi
eshte rob dhe i derguari i Tij ashtu sic ishte Isa(Jezusi) dhe profete e tjere
para tij."

"E kush mohon argumentet  e Allahut,le ta dije se Allahu shpejt do `ti jape
llogarine....Nese e pranuan Islamin,ateher e kane gjetur te vertetn, e nese
refuzojne,ti ke per obligim vetem tu komunikosh;Allahu i di shume mire punet e
roberve.Ali-Imran-20-21"

Eshte pothuajse e natyrshme per besimtaret e predikuesit fetare qe ta abuzojne
gjuhen deri ne ate pike sa gati-gati te me shkaktojne dhimbje fizike kur i
lexoj, ne sensin qe, per shembull, ne vend qe te thone "Allahu urdheron" thone
"Allahu ARGUMENTON"; ne vend qe te thone "une besoj se Allahu
keshtu-e-keshtu-e-keshtu" thone "une DESHMOJ se Allahu
keshtu-e-keshtu-e-keshtu," etj., etj. Me sa duket, i dashur Ervin, ju nuk e
dini se cdo te thote fjala "Deshmi." Te jesh ne gjendje te "deshmosh" dicka do
te thote te kesh dhe paraqisesh evidence/fakte te dores se pare. Te
justifikosh dicka perfshin edhe dhenjen e arsyeve apo provave per ato qe
pohoni. E ju nuk beni asnje nga keto te treja. Prandaj edhe ju sugjeroj qe
fjalen "deshmoj" ta zevendesoni me fjalen "besoj" me qellim qe ato qe thoni te
bejne pak me teper sens. 

E si keshtu? Allahu ka filluar edhe t'argumentoje tani? Une te them te drejten
s'e kam hapur ndonjehere Kuranin, por mendoj se, po te ishte se Allahu ja
dinte anen argumentit dhe e aplikonte ate ne librin e tij te shenjte, ai do
t'ishte filozof(gje qe, me qe ra fjala, eshte c'ka i ndan filozofet nga
dogmatistet),  dhe une do t'isha duke e lexuar ate nen temen "Etika e Besimit"
ose "Cfare Duhet te Besojme"; e jam e sigurt qe argumentet e tij do t'ishin te
forte e fjala e tij do te triumfonte mbi ate te John Locke e William
James...VETEM sikur Allahu me te vertete t'i kishte qejf argumentat. Por ju e
dini me mire se une qe atij i pelqejne urdherat, paralajmerimet e kercenimet,
te cilat nuk na i kurseni edhe ne mesazhet tuaja te frikshme ne bold sikur te
vuanim nga syte. Por ne as qe kemi pse te shkojme kaq larg. Thjesht koncepti i
fese (e lere pastaj institucionin e saj me permasa perbindeshe) nenkupton nje
praktike qe nuk ka per baze argumentat dhe aplikimin e llogjikes dhe arsyes se
shendoshe, por ate te akceptimit dhe BESIMIT (faith) ne heshtje e pa
kundershti. Gjithashtu do te doja t'ju terheq vemendjen edhe persa i perket
the truth OF and FOR the rabble per te cilen fete edhe gjejne pretekst
t'ekzistojne. Sipas Kuranit, Ervin, ka shume menyra per gjetjen e se vertetes
apo vec nje? Nese s'gaboj--pasi bagazhin e injorances plot e kam--eshte kjo e
dyta me duket. Dhe ajo eshte PRANIMI i Islamit dhe BESIMI ne vertetesine
absolute te zbulueshme vetem ne faqet e Kuranit. Por c'u be more evlat, kur
thote Zenepja (qe mos na u befte per rahmet ne kete klub virtual!), me ca nga
ne qe s'na obliterohet dot ajo Arsye e shkrete, ndryshe nga ju truth-seekers
me karakter relixhoz, por na detyron te ndjekim llogjiken e empeiria-n kur
behet fjale per ceshtje te vertete? E keshtu, si te pabindur e skeptike qe
jemi turremi sa pas mikroskopeve e teleskopeve po aq edhe pas argumenteve e
gabimeve ne t?arsyetuar, provave e justifikimeve.

?Me te verte disa njerez mendojne se feja eshte vetem dogme e mit.?

Bujrum, i dashur, dhe na thoni cfare eshte. (po ju ftoj edhe ne turqisht,
prandaj ndjehuni i mirepritur.) N.q.s. feja s?eshte dogme e tregimet e
dhijates se vjetes s?jane mitike, atehere ju ftoj te na tregoni, me fjalet
tuaja, se cfare dhe si e mendoni ju fene se eshte, dhe PSE. Na ofroni nje
?argument,? per hir t?argumentit, se pse u dashka te besokemi n'Allah. Dhe ju
lutem ruajuni gabimit arsyetimor te argumentimit ne rreth (arguing in a circle
or begging the question) duke na paraqitur paragrafe te tera nga Kurani si
prova, pasi eshte fjala e Kuranit vete qe po vihet ne dyshim ketu, prandaj
s'mund ta perdorni ate vete per te vertetuar vertetesine e saj. Qarte? Nqs jo,
me beni nje ze, kushdo nga ju qe do ta ndermarri kete detyre fisnike.

"Uroj qe pjestaret e kesaj liste te mendohen me thelle secili me veten e tij
dhe te shohin se pse u krijuan dhe te mos bien peng i veprave te tyre."

Te "mendohemi me thelle" eshte ajo c'ka perpiqemi te bejme te gjithe, ne nje
forme a nje tjeter. Por ka aq menyra te menduari mbi ceshtjet e medha te jetes
(dhe aq shume menyra te tjera brenda menyrash brenda menyrash brenda
menyrash...) sa qe te pretendosh se ti ke gjetur menyreN e duhur eshte thjesht
pertej limiteve te budallallikut dhe impertinences. E nga ky proces mendimi
deri me sot, une s'kam mundur te arrij ndonje konkluzion mbi qellimsherine e
ekzistences sime. Madje jam me poshte ne shkallen e gjetjes se saj se nga ku u
nisa. Por ju mund t'i keni ngjitur te gjitha shkallet; s'eshte cudi. Ka shume
qe e kane bere, apo qe besojne dhe thone se e kane bere.

"...dhe mos harroni se para jush kane kaluar popuj qe ishin me te fuqishem e
me te pasur por as forca as pasuria nuk i beri dobi,qe te gjithe jane nen
dhe."

Aaaah, deshira per imortalitet, kjo ndjenje patetike, ndjenje masash, jo
individesh, strumbullari i gjithe fese, ja ku me ne fund na e nxjerr koken e
saj, qe per mendimin tim i do keputur qe ne rreze. Ca injektime dozash
arsyeje, kam idene se do mjaftonin per te kuruar kete FOBIA por me objekt te
paevitueshem.

"Uroj qe ta kem sqaruar sadopak Islamin..."

Po, po, flini rehat.

"...dhe te mundohemi te rrijme brenda kornizave te fakteve e argumentave."

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa. This is too wild for me.

"...ju te new yorkut mbeshtilluni mire se nuk eshte sikendej vere gjithe
vitin"

Mua vetem nje perce me mungon.

--------------------------
William James
The Will to Believe
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/text/james/will/will.htm
N.B. Please note that what James means when he talks about "the will to
believe" is not "being willing to believe" but rather, a kind of passion to
believe that many of us have, some tendency in our nature, if I got it
correctly.
xh.a.



____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1


From atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr  Wed Dec  6 05:18:38 2000
From: atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr (Aleksander Coho)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 12:18:38 +0200
Subject: [Alb-club] A proposal
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206120105.00ab4d10@artemis.ims.demokritos.gr>

  Ka njerez ne Alb-Club (shumica besoj) qe duan te komunikojne per te 
kembyer mendime e per tu kenaqur dhe jo per tu grindur, aq me pak per pune 
feje.
Meqe njera pale nuk mund t'i mbushe mendjen pales tjeter per punen e 
Islamit, me gjithe diskutimet e zjarrta, kam kete propozim: fetaret le te 
hapin nje  Allah-Club ose Jesus-Club dhe te na lene NE TE TJERET rehat.
NE TE TJERET jemi pak skeptike - edhe kur shohim superman-in ne TV, e 
shohim per gallate dhe jo se besojme qe do ta takojme p.sh. ne autobuz. 
Keshtu jemi gatuar, nuk besojme ne gjera qe nuk mund t'i shohim.

Aleksander Coho




From atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr  Wed Dec  6 06:02:52 2000
From: atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr (Aleksander Coho)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 13:02:52 +0200
Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject)
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206130217.00ab52a0@artemis.ims.demokritos.gr>

I'm providing some Mark Twain quotations. They are a lot of fun. One can 
use the shorter ones to foot his e-mails (and appear smart).

For those who love Mark Twain, there is a little-known PEARL, by the title 
'Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences'. I only discovered it a short time 
ago. Here's where you can find it.
http://users.telerama.com/~joseph/mtwain.html

"Power, money, persuasion, supplication, persecution -- these can lift at a 
colossal humbug -- push it a little -- weaken it a little over the course 
of a century; but only laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. 
Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and 
remove all doubt."

"Let your secret sympathies and your compassion be always with the under 
dog in the fight -- this is magnanimity; but bet on the other one -- this 
is business."

"Often it does seem a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat."

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they 
are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me now I would go to 
that man and take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a 
quiet retired spot and kill him."

"I have no color prejudices nor caste prejudices nor creed prejudices. All 
I care to know is that a man is a human being, and that is enough for me; 
he can't be any worse."

"It is noble to be good; it is still nobler to teach others to be good -- 
and less trouble."

"Always do right. That will gratify some of the people, and astonish the rest."

"Be careful of reading health books, you might die of a misprint."

"Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral?  It is 
because we are not the person involved"

"Man is the only animal that blushes -- or needs to"

"When in doubt, tell the truth."

"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time  to 
reform."

"There has been only one Christian. They caught him and crucified him - early."

"You can never find a Christian who has acquired this valuable knowledge, 
this saving knowledge, by any process but the everlasting and 
all-sufficient "people say". In all my seventy-two years and a half I have 
never come across such another ass as this human race is."

"There are those who scoff at the school boy, calling him frivolous and 
shallow. Yet it was the school boy who said, Faith is believing what you 
know ain't so."

"One of the proofs of the immortality of the soul is that myriads have 
believed it-they also believed the world was flat."

"Heaven for climate, hell for society."

Aleksander Coho
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From nfn18405 at naples.net  Wed Dec  6 10:51:23 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:51:23 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] A proposal
References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206120105.00ab4d10@artemis.ims.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <000b01c05f9c$64737900$3dbfa0cd@computer>

Te mos besosh ne gjerat qe nuk sheh eshte shume e rrezikshme per vete faktin
se intelekti yt eshte nje nga gjerat qe nuk shihet prandaj me fal por une
s`kam si ti besoj dickaje qe nuk shihet pra per fat te keq ti nuk ke
intelekt

----- Original Message -----
From: Aleksander Coho <atsoxos at ims.demokritos.gr>
To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:18 AM
Subject: [Alb-club] A proposal


>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>   Ka njerez ne Alb-Club (shumica besoj) qe duan te komunikojne per te
> kembyer mendime e per tu kenaqur dhe jo per tu grindur, aq me pak per pune
> feje.
> Meqe njera pale nuk mund t'i mbushe mendjen pales tjeter per punen e
> Islamit, me gjithe diskutimet e zjarrta, kam kete propozim: fetaret le te
> hapin nje  Allah-Club ose Jesus-Club dhe te na lene NE TE TJERET rehat.
> NE TE TJERET jemi pak skeptike - edhe kur shohim superman-in ne TV, e
> shohim per gallate dhe jo se besojme qe do ta takojme p.sh. ne autobuz.
> Keshtu jemi gatuar, nuk besojme ne gjera qe nuk mund t'i shohim.
>
> Aleksander Coho
>
>
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
>



From nfn18405 at naples.net  Wed Dec  6 11:06:06 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 08:06:06 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] Re:Islam/Ervinit
References: <20001206102329.6401.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net>
Message-ID: <001f01c05f9e$71cce9e0$3dbfa0cd@computer>

Fjala argument mund te zevendesohet me fjalen prove shenje mrekulli
Fjala ne arabisht eshte ajah qe kuptimi i pare eshte mrekulli ka dhe
kuptimet e tjera qe thashe.
Te besosh ne Zotin eshte besim pa pare sepse sikur te shihje Zotin dhe
engjejt ateher nuk ka me vlere besimi.
Pra gjithe esenca e besimit te perdoresh arsyen per te besuar por jo me
prova kimike qe preken as me teleskope.
A thua ti qe teleskopi do te arrije te shohe Zotin?
Zoti krijoi gjithe universin e nje teleskop do te shohe Zotin.
Ti me perparesi i ve fjales se james-it,shume mire merr Kuranin lexoje dhe
krahasoje me fjalen e james-it dhe zgjidh.
Une e lexova biblen edhe shekspirin eshe volterin e molierin e remarkun e
kadarene e balzakun e stendalin e servantesin e fan nolin e migjenin etj dhe
zgjodha Islamin.
prinderit e mi e familja ime nuk jane muslimane por une zgjodha Islamin.
Une bera zgjedhjen time dhe DESHMOJ e BESOJ se eshte zgjedhja e vertete

----- Original Message -----
From: Xh.A. <xhuliana at usa.net>
To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:23 AM
Subject: [Alb-club] Re:Islam/Ervinit


>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
> "Deshmoj se nuk ka te adhuruar tjeter pervec Allahut,dhe deshmoj se
Muhammedi
> eshte rob dhe i derguari i Tij ashtu sic ishte Isa(Jezusi) dhe profete e
tjere
> para tij."
>
> "E kush mohon argumentet  e Allahut,le ta dije se Allahu shpejt do `ti
jape
> llogarine....Nese e pranuan Islamin,ateher e kane gjetur te vertetn, e
nese
> refuzojne,ti ke per obligim vetem tu komunikosh;Allahu i di shume mire
punet e
> roberve.Ali-Imran-20-21"
>
> Eshte pothuajse e natyrshme per besimtaret e predikuesit fetare qe ta
abuzojne
> gjuhen deri ne ate pike sa gati-gati te me shkaktojne dhimbje fizike kur i
> lexoj, ne sensin qe, per shembull, ne vend qe te thone "Allahu urdheron"
thone
> "Allahu ARGUMENTON"; ne vend qe te thone "une besoj se Allahu
> keshtu-e-keshtu-e-keshtu" thone "une DESHMOJ se Allahu
> keshtu-e-keshtu-e-keshtu," etj., etj. Me sa duket, i dashur Ervin, ju nuk
e
> dini se cdo te thote fjala "Deshmi." Te jesh ne gjendje te "deshmosh"
dicka do
> te thote te kesh dhe paraqisesh evidence/fakte te dores se pare. Te
> justifikosh dicka perfshin edhe dhenjen e arsyeve apo provave per ato qe
> pohoni. E ju nuk beni asnje nga keto te treja. Prandaj edhe ju sugjeroj qe
> fjalen "deshmoj" ta zevendesoni me fjalen "besoj" me qellim qe ato qe
thoni te
> bejne pak me teper sens.
>
> E si keshtu? Allahu ka filluar edhe t'argumentoje tani? Une te them te
drejten
> s'e kam hapur ndonjehere Kuranin, por mendoj se, po te ishte se Allahu ja
> dinte anen argumentit dhe e aplikonte ate ne librin e tij te shenjte, ai
do
> t'ishte filozof(gje qe, me qe ra fjala, eshte c'ka i ndan filozofet nga
> dogmatistet),  dhe une do t'isha duke e lexuar ate nen temen "Etika e
Besimit"
> ose "Cfare Duhet te Besojme"; e jam e sigurt qe argumentet e tij do
t'ishin te
> forte e fjala e tij do te triumfonte mbi ate te John Locke e William
> James...VETEM sikur Allahu me te vertete t'i kishte qejf argumentat. Por
ju e
> dini me mire se une qe atij i pelqejne urdherat, paralajmerimet e
kercenimet,
> te cilat nuk na i kurseni edhe ne mesazhet tuaja te frikshme ne bold sikur
te
> vuanim nga syte. Por ne as qe kemi pse te shkojme kaq larg. Thjesht
koncepti i
> fese (e lere pastaj institucionin e saj me permasa perbindeshe) nenkupton
nje
> praktike qe nuk ka per baze argumentat dhe aplikimin e llogjikes dhe
arsyes se
> shendoshe, por ate te akceptimit dhe BESIMIT (faith) ne heshtje e pa
> kundershti. Gjithashtu do te doja t'ju terheq vemendjen edhe persa i
perket
> the truth OF and FOR the rabble per te cilen fete edhe gjejne pretekst
> t'ekzistojne. Sipas Kuranit, Ervin, ka shume menyra per gjetjen e se
vertetes
> apo vec nje? Nese s'gaboj--pasi bagazhin e injorances plot e kam--eshte
kjo e
> dyta me duket. Dhe ajo eshte PRANIMI i Islamit dhe BESIMI ne vertetesine
> absolute te zbulueshme vetem ne faqet e Kuranit. Por c'u be more evlat,
kur
> thote Zenepja (qe mos na u befte per rahmet ne kete klub virtual!), me ca
nga
> ne qe s'na obliterohet dot ajo Arsye e shkrete, ndryshe nga ju
truth-seekers
> me karakter relixhoz, por na detyron te ndjekim llogjiken e empeiria-n kur
> behet fjale per ceshtje te vertete? E keshtu, si te pabindur e skeptike qe
> jemi turremi sa pas mikroskopeve e teleskopeve po aq edhe pas argumenteve
e
> gabimeve ne t'arsyetuar, provave e justifikimeve.
>
> "Me te verte disa njerez mendojne se feja eshte vetem dogme e mit."
>
> Bujrum, i dashur, dhe na thoni cfare eshte. (po ju ftoj edhe ne turqisht,
> prandaj ndjehuni i mirepritur.) N.q.s. feja s'eshte dogme e tregimet e
> dhijates se vjetes s'jane mitike, atehere ju ftoj te na tregoni, me fjalet
> tuaja, se cfare dhe si e mendoni ju fene se eshte, dhe PSE. Na ofroni nje
> "argument," per hir t'argumentit, se pse u dashka te besokemi n'Allah. Dhe
ju
> lutem ruajuni gabimit arsyetimor te argumentimit ne rreth (arguing in a
circle
> or begging the question) duke na paraqitur paragrafe te tera nga Kurani si
> prova, pasi eshte fjala e Kuranit vete qe po vihet ne dyshim ketu, prandaj
> s'mund ta perdorni ate vete per te vertetuar vertetesine e saj. Qarte? Nqs
jo,
> me beni nje ze, kushdo nga ju qe do ta ndermarri kete detyre fisnike.
>
> "Uroj qe pjestaret e kesaj liste te mendohen me thelle secili me veten e
tij
> dhe te shohin se pse u krijuan dhe te mos bien peng i veprave te tyre."
>
> Te "mendohemi me thelle" eshte ajo c'ka perpiqemi te bejme te gjithe, ne
nje
> forme a nje tjeter. Por ka aq menyra te menduari mbi ceshtjet e medha te
jetes
> (dhe aq shume menyra te tjera brenda menyrash brenda menyrash brenda
> menyrash...) sa qe te pretendosh se ti ke gjetur menyreN e duhur eshte
thjesht
> pertej limiteve te budallallikut dhe impertinences. E nga ky proces
mendimi
> deri me sot, une s'kam mundur te arrij ndonje konkluzion mbi qellimsherine
e
> ekzistences sime. Madje jam me poshte ne shkallen e gjetjes se saj se nga
ku u
> nisa. Por ju mund t'i keni ngjitur te gjitha shkallet; s'eshte cudi. Ka
shume
> qe e kane bere, apo qe besojne dhe thone se e kane bere.
>
> "...dhe mos harroni se para jush kane kaluar popuj qe ishin me te fuqishem
e
> me te pasur por as forca as pasuria nuk i beri dobi,qe te gjithe jane nen
> dhe."
>
> Aaaah, deshira per imortalitet, kjo ndjenje patetike, ndjenje masash, jo
> individesh, strumbullari i gjithe fese, ja ku me ne fund na e nxjerr koken
e
> saj, qe per mendimin tim i do keputur qe ne rreze. Ca injektime dozash
> arsyeje, kam idene se do mjaftonin per te kuruar kete FOBIA por me objekt
te
> paevitueshem.
>
> "Uroj qe ta kem sqaruar sadopak Islamin..."
>
> Po, po, flini rehat.
>
> "...dhe te mundohemi te rrijme brenda kornizave te fakteve e argumentave."
>
> Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa. This is too wild for me.
>
> "...ju te new yorkut mbeshtilluni mire se nuk eshte sikendej vere gjithe
> vitin"
>
> Mua vetem nje perce me mungon.
>
> --------------------------
> William James
> The Will to Believe
> http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/text/james/will/will.htm
> N.B. Please note that what James means when he talks about "the will to
> believe" is not "being willing to believe" but rather, a kind of passion
to
> believe that many of us have, some tendency in our nature, if I got it
> correctly.
> xh.a.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
>



From ydemneri at club-internet.fr  Wed Dec  6 08:40:01 2000
From: ydemneri at club-internet.fr (demneri)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:40:01 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Te gjitheve
Message-ID: <B6540041.EE3%ydemneri@club-internet.fr>

Te nderuar moderatore,
Po rikthehem pas nje mungese disa javore, sepse kam qene i zene me pune si
dhe ju, por megjithate gjate kesaj kohe kam mundur ti hedh nje sy Listes.
Kam ndjere vetem irritim dhe neveri. Lista eshte pushtuar nga mercenaret
trushplare te cilet nuk te merzisin vetem me nivelin e tyre, por te
revoltojne me idete dhe mendimet e tyre ekstremiste. Nga cektesia  ata
mendojne se po bejne nje pune te lavderueshme, por nuk e kane kuptuar se me
idiotesite e tyre ato po i neverisin Fene Islame edhe atyre qe nga tradita i
perkasin kesaj feje.
Mendoj se pervec disa rregullave si 50 rrjeshta apo ku e di une se cfare,
moderatoret duhet te paraqesin disa rregulle morale si ndodh dhe me revistat
apo gazetat me te medha ne boten e qyteteruar. Neqoftese se nuk arrini te
merrni keto vendime, atehere ne menyre demokratike i propozoni te gjithe
anetareve te ketij Club-i qe te votojne. Nuk eshte fjala vetem per ato si
puna e Ervinit e kompani, por per te gjithe ato qe nxisin racizmin i cfaredo
ngjyre qofte ai. Ne menyre miqesore i drejtohem te gjithe antareve te ketij
Club-i qe te mos i pergjigjen ketyre individeve. Injorimi eshte arma me e
mire. Ndryshe...
Miqesisht
Y.D 


From kbejko at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 09:13:12 2000
From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:13:12 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Ne Shqiptaro-Perendimoret
Message-ID: <F2853hi1hvppFYavAKs0000ff68@hotmail.com>

Ervini shkroi:
-arsyeja e krijimit te njeriut eshte te adhuroje Zotin.

Ke degjuar per gabim llogjik ti Ervin qe quhet "arsyetim rrethor"? Mos 
perdor Qur'an-in te provosh Qur'an-in. Do ju lutesha shume juve te Malajzise 
te mos na coni me keshtu gjepurash pasi nuk keni per te konvertuar njeri po 
beni te kunderten..po na shtoni neverine per mjekrrat,callmat, ferexhete, 
minaret, piskamat e hoxhallareve, jeten e qenit qe behet kur nenshtrimi ndaj 
te zotit eshte paramount. Jeni ne nje liste qe dominohet nga njerez me 
pikepamje perendimore! Nqs s'ju pelqen eshte teper e lehte te 
c'rregjistrohesh.


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From zenepja at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 09:17:27 2000
From: zenepja at hotmail.com (Zenepe Sammy)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:17:27 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Nje gur mbi koke
Message-ID: <F647HVr5qNHv6Bwy5OX000095b5@hotmail.com>

more poeti i nenes,

ti i the ato fjalet per te plotefuqishmin zot me nje fryme e ike. E mua 
plakes, se c'me erdhen prape ca mendime te mbrapshta e te renda qe nuk i 
mbaj dot ne kurriz te keqen. E thashe ta pyes njehere kete poetin tone qe i 
di te gjitha ceshtjet e zotit e te ma sqaroje mua plakes njehere e 
pergjithmone kete pune, e te bie e te fle rehat. More bir, ky zoti eshte i 
plotefuqishem the ti e nena nuk te hyn ne hak. Po mire more evlat i lecitur, 
kur ky zoti eshte kaq i plotefuqishem e na beri te gjithe ne te vdekshmit e 
beri dynjane, a e ben dot ai nje gur apo shkemb kaq te madh e kaq te rende 
sa mos ta mbaje dot as vete ne kurriz?

he te keqen jepi rixha kesaj pune ti.Z


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From besaarberore at excite.com  Wed Dec  6 10:37:29 2000
From: besaarberore at excite.com (Beso Arberi)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:37:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] te besosh apo te mos besosh
Message-ID: <29197026.976117050060.JavaMail.imail@slippery>

?Une bera zgjedhjen time dhe DESHMOJ e BESOJ se eshte zgjedhja e vertete?
quote nga Ervini.

Te thuash besoj eshte e drejta jote, e pakufishme, e te cilen nuk ka te
drejte askush te ta heqe.  Por te thuash deshmoj eshte gabim. Pasi dhe nje I
krishtere mund thote qe deshmon se kristianizmi eshte zgjidhja e vertete,
dhe nje budist mund te thote qe budizmi eshte zgjidhja e vertete, e nqs do
shkonim ne kete menyre, po te kishim disa koka te nxehta, ashtu sikurse
fatkeqesisht jane ne kete liste, do ishim permbytur nga gjaku.  

Nuk e di pse e tere kjo propagande fetare.  Nqs te kane dhene detyre ne
shkolle qe te botosh sa me me shume ne internet, pse duhet ta vuajme ne? 
ose na thuaj qe o vellezer une duhet ta publikoj kete shkrim ne internet se
ma kerkojne keta te Kuala Lumpurit kete gje, prandaj te lutem sa me shihni
emrin fshijeni (ashtu sikurse ben 90% e listes ne mos gaboj)

Vete jam musliman e besoj ne Zot.  Por nuk besoj se ngritja e prapanices
perpjete pese here ne dite, apo rrefimi I mekateve do me shpetojne.  Ndoshta
do digjem ne hell, por nuk besoj se duke vrare viktima te pafajshme, apo
duke vene bomba per te shkaterruar ne pese minuta ate qe njerzimit I jane
dashur vite per ta ndertuar, eshte nje menyre per te vajtur ne parajse. Para
nja nje jave shtypa me makine nje keter.  Ate nate nuk fjeta dot pasi me
dilte para sysh perpelitja e ketrit. Nuk besoj se mund te kete falje pese
here ne dite qe mund te te heqe ate imazh nga mendja.  Nqs me te vertete
Zoti lejon qe ne emer te tij te vriten krijesa te pafajshme, per te shkuar
ne parajse atehere une kurre nuk dua qe te besoj ne ate Zot.  Nqs Zoti thote
qe mos ji tolerant me fete e tjera me bindjet e tjetrit e mos I respekto
ato, atehere perseri une nuk dua qe te besoj ne ate Zot.  

Miqesisht te them leri dogmat fetare e shfrytezoje kohen per te lexuar
ndonje liber te bukur.  Nqs nuk do te lexosh, dil e luaj nje futboll me
shoket.  Nqs nuk ke shoke per te luajtur, perpiqu te luash Solitaire ne
komputer.  Leri te tjeret te besojne ne ate qe duan te besojne.  Kush do te
ndjeke Papen, le te ndjeke Papen, kush do te ndjeke Dahlai Lamen le te
ndjeke ate, e kush do qe te ndjeke Ajatollahun or whatever is his name, lere
te ndjeke ate. Kjo eshte zgjidhja e tyre e nuk te takon ty ti gjykosh.  Nqs
dikush do te lexoj Salman Rushdie, me mire se kuranin, apo biblen, apo
dikush tjeter preferon qe te lexoj main kampf, apo Ezra Puond, perseri eshte
puna e tyre e nuk te takon ty ti gjykosh.  

Ti thashe keto shume miqesisht.  Shpresoj qe ti kuptosh ne sensin e drejte. 
Vete mendoj qe kam humbur shume kohe duke u marre me keto gjera, e nuk dua
qe te humbas me kohen time keshtu.    

Zoti te dhente mendjen e hairit, ty e shume te tjereve.









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From gerek12 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  6 10:56:33 2000
From: gerek12 at yahoo.com (adriatik sefa)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:56:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Afganet
Message-ID: <20001206155633.53000.qmail@web9301.mail.yahoo.com>

Po cfar behet keshtu more derezinj. Cfar jane keto
bisedime, me duket qe me shume persona jane me
nenshtetesi afganistane ketu ne kete club se sa
shqipetare. Po lerini hallet e kombeve te tjera dhe ne
plan te pare flisni per problemet qe po kalon populli
yne. Na shkoj jeta duke pare jeten e tjereve dhe jo
jeten tone dhe jemi ku nuk duhet te ishim.
Cfar feje flasin keto kolopuca musliman, katolik, apo
ortodoks, po nuk e keni lexuar historine more
djelmosha dhe vajza te bukura, qe te gjitha ato fe
jane futur ne jeten tone nga okupatore dhe vrases te
popullit tone ne shekuj asnje nga ato fe nuk eshte
krijuar nga populli yne. Feja jone eshte shqiptaria,
gjithca tjeter eshte e huaj dhe ne sduhet te luftojme
per fete e te huajve por te luftojme te krijojme nje
vend te fuqishem ne ekonomi, dhe politike. Deshiroj qe
te gjitheve tu them qe te flasin me shume per hallet e
popullit tone, se si forcat politike nuk po dine te
krijojne vertete nje demokraci qe ne si shqiptare mos
te jemi te perulur kur te themi emrin qe jemi
shqipetare po te jemi krenar.
Boll me humbje kohe per gjera qe sjane tonat dhe te
veme ne plan te pare vendin tone. Kemi qen me
siperfaqe deri ku sot eshte Sllovenia dhe ne jug ku
eshte Janina, dhe kemi perfunduar me nje cope toke qe
edhe ate nuk dime si ta mbajme, perse, sepse e kemi
harxhuar kohen duke u zene me njeri tjetrin per pune
feje apo gjera te tjera qe sna kane takuar. Boll le ta
ndryshojme te ardhmen ne te rinjte dhe te vendosim
cfar eshte e rendesishme ne plan te pare per vendin
tone, kur ti mbarojme hallet tona dhe pastaj te
shikojme cfar po behet ne afganistan apo ku ta di une.

Me respekt per te gjithe.
A. simnica  
--- Ermal Abdi <ermal_a at yahoo.com> wrote:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> Vete gjuha jote tregon urrejtjen dhe injorancen
> tende
> edhe pse jeton ne perendim dhe na hiqesh si e
> edukuar.
>  See, I don't need the west to educate me.  But I
> guess you need it bad.  I feel really sorry for you.
>  Me te vertete ndihem keq per ty me email-in tend
> pathetic.  Me te vertete do te hiqesh si e edukuar
> dhe
> me kulture duke harruar se po tregon gjithnje e me
> shume urrejtjen tende ndaj fese Islame dhe
> muslimaneve
> qe jane 75% e popullsise ne Shqiperi.  Jeni
> pikerisht
> ju si njerez te cilet tregoni sesa mendje mbyllur
> jeni
> se une edhe kur lexoje artikuj qe shajne fene,
> Profetin tim te dashur dhe vellezerit e mij
> muslimane
> nuk kthehem aqe eger ndaj ketyre akuzave sic ben ti
> per lulin.  Por me te vertete for it makes no
> difference with people like you put up all the time.
> 
> I think I can handle one more.
> 
> ciao
> --- Era18 at aol.com wrote:
> >                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > In a message dated 12/4/00 11:00:10 PM Eastern
> > Standard Time, Ermal Abdi 
> > writes:
> > 
> > > Jo o luli jo...hallin nuk e kemi tek talibanet e
> > >  amerikanet por tek te drejtat e njeriut qe ti
> me
> > shoke
> > >  na cani koken nga mengjesi deri ne darke. 
> Berrr
> > berr
> > >  sic i thone muhabetit.  
> > 
> > A eshte kjo nje liste ku pikerisht ai qe
> > presupozohet se "te can koken" eshte 
> > administratori i saj dhe harxhon kohe nga dita e
> vet
> > qe ta mbaje gjalle dhe 
> > qe i duhet te lexoje, do apo s'do, mesazhet e tua
> > dhe te tjereve, nderkohe qe 
> > ne te tjeret kemi luksin qe t'i fshijme
> urgjentisht
> > sapo jua shohim emrin apo 
> > sapo ua ndjejme eren ne kutine e postes? 
> > Pse ne djall kjo mungese respekti totale? Pse ne
> > djall ky vulgaritet i qelbur 
> > shqiptar? Pse ne djall kjo gjuhe e ndyre qe na ben
> > te marrim arratine dhe te 
> > mos ia shohim bojen atyre rradheve qe ke ti per te
> > thene apo kushdo tjeter? 
> > Sa vjet neper civilizimet perendimore ju duhen qe
> te
> > mesoni te komunikoni si 
> > njerez? Nuk u formua kjo liste dhe nuk preokupohen
> > njerez me mirembajtjen e 
> > saj qe te dalin ca te pagdhendur e te papune dhe
> te
> > na prishin shijen me nje 
> > tufe dokrrash te pasjellshme, qe te provokojne
> vetem
> > nje ndjenje te tille qe 
> > mund te te provokojne gishti tregues dhe ai i
> mesit,
> > te dy bashke, te futur 
> > thelle ne gryke...
> > Rreshtni per nje moment, gjejini vetes ndonje pune
> > tjeter dhe na lini te qete 
> > perfundimisht se na ka ardhur ne maje te hundes,
> si
> > me dokrrat tuaja islamike 
> > ashtu dhe me trajtimet e trasha te cdo teme qe
> > merrni persiper apo 
> > vulgaritetin tuaj ekstrem. 
> > 
> > MJAFT !
> > ***Alb-Club***
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> > Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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From Gravityvictim at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 11:07:20 2000
From: Gravityvictim at aol.com (Gravityvictim at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:07:20 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Buckingham Palace...[The forbidden fruit/drink]
Message-ID: <95.3eaf6d9.275fbe38@aol.com>

LONDON, Dec 6 (Reuters) - Britain's royal servants are angry about plans to 
close a subsidised bar at Buckingham Palace -- threatening a rare perk of 
being able to drink on the job, the top-selling Sun tabloid reported on 
Wednesday. 

The Sun said royal advisers were considering closing the bar as a 
cost-cutting measure, upsetting staff who considered being able to enjoy a 
tipple on duty as one of the traditional perks of the job. 

"We can confirm a proposal has been made to close the facility. Staff are 
being asked their views," the Sun quoted a palace spokesman as saying. Royal 
servants have traditionally been able to have a drink at the bar during 
working hours and viewed the perk as some compensation for low wages and long 
shifts, the newspaper said. 

"Being allowed to drink on duty is one of the few perks left at the palace 
and this will bring morale to a new low," an unnamed palace employee was 
quoted as saying. The move comes weeks after Queen Elizabeth banned royal 
servants from carrying mobile phones because their constant ringing drove her 
mad. 

The queen issued the command in November after a series of family meals and 
formal dinners were interrupted by the ringing of mobile phones. The Sun said 
a smaller bar at Windsor Castle near could also be closed but bars at the 
royal residences of Sandringham in Norfolk, eastern England, and Balmoral in 
Scotland would stay open.


 
 


From Adis68 at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 11:43:06 2000
From: Adis68 at aol.com (Adis68 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:43:06 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Sqarime rreth Islamit
Message-ID: <6.eebdc1b.275fc69a@aol.com>

Kot per kuriozitet:
Sa vende kane per menyre organizimi formen Republike Islamike?



From gjon2000 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 11:44:54 2000
From: gjon2000 at hotmail.com (Gjon 2000)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 11:44:54 -0500
Subject: [Alb-club] Sikur te matej njeriu: FPLMH
Message-ID: <F128Oiy54DgI6bXmdMJ0000fccc@hotmail.com>

Supozojme qe njeriu, fizikisht, shpirterisht e menderisht, mund te ndahet ne 
keto grupe:

F: 	fiziku 	(gjatesia, syte, hunda, floket, jetegjatesia,  shendeti, ...)
P: 	pasuria (tundshme, patundshme, stoks, mutual funds, pets, para ne banke, 
dyshek, e fituar, e gjetur, e vjedhur, ...)
L: 	lumturia (qesh me ze, thote me shume "po" se "jo", nuk sheh endrra 
naten, nuk mendon "sikur te isha/kisha...", nuk mendon se si te vrasi veten, 
...)
M: 	mencuria (shkollimi, dituria, njohuria e nje ceshtjeje te caktur, 
mundesia per te folur per nje subject me shume se 5 minuta me kusht qe te 
kete degjues, ...)
H:	huqet (inatet, cmira, zilia, deshira per te bere keq, deshira per te 
vrare, inati per vjerren ose mamane, xhelozia per Klaudia Shifer ose Bill 
Gates, ...)

Pra, sikur njeriu te ndertohej ne kete menyre, si mund te ndertonim nje 
model qe keto karakteristika te mateshin.

- modeli i tingullbashkuesit (mixerit) te muzikes, ku karakteristikat e 
mesiperme shprehen si llampa ne nje ekran dhe qe levizin ne varesi te 
amplitudes. Duke qene me ngjyra dhe llampa, kjo eshte e lehte per t'u 
absorbuar.

- modeli tjeter eshte sipas etiketave te ushqimeve, ku jepet nje numur ne 
krah te karakteristikes.
Duke qene se edhe ky model, eshte po ashtu i njohur, sepse eshte ne mode te 
shohesh karbohidratet, yndyrat, calorite, etj ne cdo kuti apo qese 
(megjithese prape e ha permbajtjen), po vazhdoj me kete te dytin.

Ne ndryshim nga modeli i kalorive ku numrat i vendos departamenti i 
marketingut ne varesi te marketes per ate kohe, modeli FPLMH supozon se 
shuma duhet te jete konstante, te themi 100, dhe piket H jane negative.

Sipas ketij modeli, nje njeri mesatar, do te qe:
F 25 : asnje s'eshte i kenaqur me turirin apo trupin e vet
P 10 : te gjithe duan me shume
L 35 : nuk pranohet me ze te larte, por "he, sikur jam rregulluar ca..."
M 45 : secili mendon qe eshte me i mencur se te tjeret
H -15 : te gjitha jane nen lekure

Kurse Lej Feni, per shembull, do te qe:
F 5 	- i shkurter
P 5 	- fshatar i varfer,
L 80 	- gezonte komunizmin
M 10 	- pa shkolle, vetem citatet kish lexuar
H 0 	- asnjehere nuk mendoi keq ne kete bote

Disa rregulla:

Rregull 1: Cdo pike qe shtohet ne nje grup, do t'i merret nje grupi tjeter
Rregull 2: Ne cdo moment te caktuar, shuma e pikeve te te gjithe njerezve 
eshte konstante.

Shembuj:
Do te shkosh ne shkolle te marresh nje grade. Si pasoje:
a. do te marresh pike ne M
b. shpreson te marresh pike ne P
c. nuk i dihet me H
d. do te humbasesh ne F ( do te te dukesh me i lodhur nga leximet, mund te 
marresh me shume ilace per dhembjen e kokes), si dhe ne L (s'do te mbetet 
shume kohe te shikosh video, ose nga lodhja, nuk do shijosh dot nengrupet e 
L-se).

Shembull tjeter:
Une them qe jam me i miri/mencuri/seksi/pasuri etj. ne bote. Kjo nuk me 
shton F as P, por disa pike ne L, si dhe disa minuse ne H (rregulli 1).
Supozojme se une nuk e bej deklaraten ne mengjez me vetveten, duke u rruar e 
fishkellyer, por para nje grupi  njerezish, ta themi, ne kete liste. 
Shumica, ne mos te gjithe, do te me marrin inat. Kujdes! Mos e beni! 
Permbahuni! Te gjitheve juve do t'iu shtohet H-ja! (rregulli 2).

Ky model shjegon shume fenomene qe deri tani kane qene te veshtira per t'u 
shpjeguar.
Luftrat! Ne nje vend ku ka lufte, shuma e H-ve eshte me e madhe se sa te 
gjtha bashke: F, P, L, M !

Nje tjeter fenomen, shume i ndeshur ne kete bote: dashuria! Piket shkembehen 
L me L, dhe rrjedhimisht mbeten po ne ate grup, nuk shkojne ne H! (almost).

Ose, dikush ka nje ide (M per te) dhe te tjeret e kritikojne, pra shtojne 
H-te qe te balancojne M-ne qe solli njeriu i pare.

Duke respektuar rregullat e listes per gjatesine e mesazheve (nuk dua te 
marr H), ketu mbyllet pjesa e pare.

Gjoni

--vijon

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From LulzimShtino at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 12:16:50 2000
From: LulzimShtino at aol.com (LulzimShtino at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:16:50 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Nga moderatori: Rreth Mesazheve Personale
Message-ID: <47.4565e7d.275fce82@aol.com>

Ftoj kontributoret ne kete liste qe te mos e perdorin si kend lajmerimesh, 
ose kuti postare per kartolina personale. Mesazhe qe konsistojne ne nje ose 
dy rreshta NUK do te pranohen me, me perjashtim te rasteve te 
jashtezakonshme. Lutem shkruani vetem nese mendoni se mesazhi juaj do te kete 
interes EDHE per ata lexues te cileve nuk u drejtohet me emer. 

L. Sh.


From LulzimShtino at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 12:17:05 2000
From: LulzimShtino at aol.com (LulzimShtino at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:17:05 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Nga moderatori: Mbyllje Diskutimi
Message-ID: <b5.427a8e4.275fce91@aol.com>

Ne emer te te gjithe moderatoreve te listes, diskutimin rreth fese islame dhe 
impaktit te saj ne shoqerine shqiptare, afgane ose amerikane, e deklaroj te 
mbyllur perfundimisht. Te gjitha mesazhet me kete teme qe do t'i mberrijne 
listes pas ketij njoftimi do te skartohen menjehere, pavaresisht nga cilesia 
e te shkruajturit, ose interesi potencial i argumenteve te sjella. 

L. Sh.


From LulzimShtino at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 12:17:57 2000
From: LulzimShtino at aol.com (LulzimShtino at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:17:57 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Nga Moderatori: Lajmerim
Message-ID: <39.d823519.275fcec5@aol.com>

Per arsye TEKNIKE shume serioze, duke filluar qe nga dita e sotme, nuk do te 
lejohet me qe mesazhe te derguara ne liste nga adresa "ervin" 
<nfn18405 at naples.net> t'u shperndahen anetareve. Personi qe shkruan nga kjo 
adrese eshte keshilluar privatisht qe te perdore nje adrese tjeter, p.sh. ne 
Yahoo ose ne Hotmail. Kuptohet se kjo mase nuk ka asnje lidhje me natyren e 
shkrimeve te ardhura nga ajo adrese, dhe z. Ervin eshte i mirepritur te 
kontribuoje nga cdo lloj adrese tjeter.

L. Sh.


From silke.blumbach at t-online.de  Wed Dec  6 14:07:38 2000
From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 20:07:38 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Poetry: ALBANIA
References: <9e.c926dd8.27555932@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3A2E8E79.213D5157@t-online.de>

"Ylber" - sa e bukur qenka kjo poezi!! Me flet nga zemra, gati qava kur
e lexova.

Annefon at aol.com schrieb:

>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
> ALBANIA
>         By Enver Sulejman
>
> Her name is Albania, the breathtaking.
> She is a snowdrop on the foothills of hope.
>         She exhales life:

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS !!!

> breath her
> While with the winds of change you cope.
>

That's what I am already doing ... thanks to Albania
(land of transition which can provoke your own transition!)

>
> Her name is Albania, the beautiful.

sa e dua!!!

>
> She is the sunrise of red, yellow and gold.
>         If you are tired, lean on her,
> Recuperating within eagledomm's fold.

YESSSS !!! YESSSSS!!!! TAMAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>
>
> Her name is Albania, the timeless.
> She is the legend, the land of sunlight.

"Toka diellore", pra (titulli i nje poezie nga sarandjoti Sulejman Mato)

>
> Study her anatomy, be part of her flame,

eshte kenaqesi e MADHE per mua!!!!!!!! qofsha gjithmone e denje per te
qene nje pjese e kesaj flake!

>
>     Hold aloft the torch of eternal light.
>
> Her name is Albania, the magnificient.
> She is your sanctuary, your promised land,

MY PROMISED LAND
THE LAND THAT GOD HAS CHOSEN FOR ME
THE LAND THAT EAGLE'S EYES AND EAGLE'S WINGS HAVE PROMISED ME
THE MOST BEAUTIFUL
THE MOST GRACEFUL AND MOST GRATEFUL
OF ALL MOUNTAIN SLOPES AND ALL SEA SHORES
WHERE ALL SUFFERING FINALLY IS WORTH WHILE
WHEN YOU SEE THE STERKALAT MIRROR THE SALT IN YOUR EYES

>
> And we, her children are her future-
> The past and present of our Motherland.
>
> ( Originally published in ILLYRIA, New York)
>
> Submitted by: Ferhat Ymeri
> ***Alb-Club***
> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club
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From tunxhi at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  6 14:42:58 2000
From: tunxhi at yahoo.com (deda tunxhi)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:42:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Vendimi i moderatoreve
Message-ID: <20001206194258.75617.qmail@web10908.mail.yahoo.com>

Kjo qe ka vendosur moderatori per te ndaluar cdo mesazh qe ka te bej me
Islamin,  nuk eshte e drejte. Meqe ne gjithmone flasim per liri shprehje etj,
mua me duket se ne kete rast kjo nuk po zbatohet.

Ajo qe mua me duket me e drejte eshte qe meqe shume anetare te listes nuk i
pelqejne te degjojne rreth Islamit,  atehere le te injorojne mesazhet qe kane
te bejne me Islamin.
Mos i lexoni, mos ktheni pergjigje etj.
Nuk po ju detyron njeri qe te pergjigjeni.
Prandaj ju lutem moderatoreve qe ta konsiderojne edhe nje here vendimin se mua
nuk me duket i drejte.
P.S Per moderatorin: Edhe nese ky mesazh i ime nuk publikohet per shkak te
vendimit tuaj te meparshem, ju lutem mu pergjigjuni privatisht.
Faleminderit.

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From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 14:50:11 2000
From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:50:11 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Emigrim dhe studim jasht shteti ne menyre legale !
Message-ID: <F184JnUat9ym8T69IFl000064a6@hotmail.com>

Ndoshta i dini keto qe une po shkruaj me poshte, por po i shkruaj me shume 
per ato qe nuk i dine ose qe  i dine dhe i nenvleftesojne dhe preferojne te 
punojne me mire pa letra se sa te plotesojne deri ne fund keto aplikacione.

Po i rradhis sipas probabilitetit me te madh per te fituar

1. New Zealand
http://www.nzemb.org/(DownLoad format ketu) (kerkon 6 muaj deri ne 
finalizim)

2+3 Canada + Quebec
www.canadianembassy.org
www.ambassadeducanada.org(DownLoad format ketu)
(kerkon 12-24 muaj deri ne finalizim)


4 Australia
http://www.australian-embassy.nl
http://www.nzemb.org/
(kerkon 9-15muaj deri ne finalizim. Format blihen ne ambasade)

Tips.
1. Plotesohini ashtu si kane qejf ato, dmth qe te kapni pike sa me shume. 
Shembujt i gjeni aty.

2 Pavaresisht se cfare keni mbaruar apo studiuar pershtatjuni kerkesave te 
tyre me klasifikimet e tyre. Edhe nese i'zbukuroni' nuk keni se cfare te 
humbeni. (keshtu bejne te gjithe kinezet, indianet e arabet)

3. Mos u dekurajoni nga pompoziteti i kerkesave. Kjo behet per te marre me 
te miret dhe me kurajozet qe besojne ne vetvete. Kush i shkon deri ne fund 
ka 80% shance te fitoje.

Note.
Ju lutem shperndajeni mes shqiptaresh.

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From kbejko at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 14:52:35 2000
From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 19:52:35 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] US supports Albanian govt
Message-ID: <LC1-LFD159bqSFbamNY0000036a@hotmail.com>

U.S. Throws Weight Behind Albanian Government

TIRANA, Dec 6, 2000 -- (Reuters) The United States has tacitly thrown its 
weight behind Albania's Socialist-led government, saying the country has 
made "impressive strides" in maintaining public order and resisting the 
threat of political violence.

In a speech to Albanian judges, the text of which was issued on Monday 
night, U.S. Ambassador Joseph Limprecht delivered an implicit rebuke to the 
opposition Democrats of former President Sali Berisha.

The Democrats have refused to accept the results of municipal elections in 
October won by Prime Minister Ilir Meta's Socialists, contending that they 
were rigged, and have been staging occasionally violent protest rallies in 
Tirana.

International monitors said the elections were generally fair.

Limprecht said there had been a true strengthening of Albanian state 
institutions -- government, parliament, police and judiciary -- in the past 
two years.

"Together these institutions have shown an increased ability to withstand 
the challenges of those who would undermine public order through violence 
and intimidation to try to gain political advantage," he said.

Limprecht said there was a persistent but incorrect image in Western media 
that Albania was still unstable.

The country plunged into anarchy in 1997 after the collapse of fraudulent 
investment schemes. Order was restored only after the intervention of an 
Italian-led multinational force and Berisha lost power in a snap general 
election.

The country saw another brief upsurge of political violence in 1998 when 
clashes following the funeral of a murdered Democratic politician nearly 
toppled the government.

"What may have been true in 1997 and 1998 is not true today," the U.S. envoy 
said. "Albania has demonstrated, especially in the past month, that it will 
not descend into chaos with the first political confrontation."

This was a clear reference to the government's handling of Democratic 
rallies in Tirana and the firm police response to an attack by Democratic 
supporters on a police station in the northern town of Bajram Curri -- a 
Berisha stronghold.

Two people were killed in that incident last week.

Limprecht said people had a right to demonstrate peacefully but the 
government had to step in to restore order if rallies turned violent.

"Only in this way can it give its citizens confidence that its democracy is 
strong and that the state will protect their most basic rights."

He welcomed the fact that the government was attacking crime more 
aggressively but said more needed to be done to curb corruption and 
organized crime.

(C)2000 Copyright Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or 
redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited 
without the prior written consent of Reuters Limited.


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From tunxhi at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  6 14:31:30 2000
From: tunxhi at yahoo.com (deda tunxhi)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:31:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Albanes/ Cobani e Bagetia
Message-ID: <20001206193130.69236.qmail@web10901.mail.yahoo.com>

Me vjen shume keq qe Albana jo vetem qe i ka nxjerre fjalet e mia nga konteksti
por gjithashtu me duket se nuk e ka kuptuar qellimin e shkrimit.

Ne rradhe te pare une qe ne fillim te shkrimit e kam bere te qarte qe gruaja e
burri jane te barabarte. Kurse persa i perket pyetjes sime :

?Pa me thoni : SA PREJ JUSH I LININ MOTRAT, GRATE DHE NENAT TUAJA QE TE DILNIN
RRUGEVE VETEM NE ATE KOHE? A MOS ISHTE KJO SHTYPJE E TE DREJTAVE TE GRAVE??

 Une nuk po sugjeroja qe grate jane te varura nga burrat se cdo familje i
zgjidh vete problemet e saj. Por iu referova grave meqe po flisnin per te
drejtat e grave ne Afganistan.

O Albana une as qe nuk e diskutoj qe grate, motrat, nenat, kane pavaresine e
vet.Kjo eshte e drejte qe ja ka thene Zoti qe te gjitheve. 

Une e shikoj qe ty te pelqen me fol ne teori dhe me filozofu. Kurse une po
flitja konkretisht REAL LIFE dhe cdo person qe ka qene ne Shqiperi gjate Marsit
te 97 e ka pare si ka qene situata.  Jo vetem grate po as edhe burrat nuk
dilnin rrugeve se kerrciste kokrra plumbit. 
A e ke pare ti ndonje here sesi u be Vlora e Elbasani?
A ke pare ndonje shokun tend ti te vritet para syve te ty se dikush po i
rrembente motren?
A ke pare ti vajza qe te merren nga dasma me dhune e te perdhunohen?
A ke pare ti sesi nuk kishte kembe njeriu rrugeve? Qe njerezit ishin te mbyllur
neper shtepia?
A ke pare ti qe te te plackisin shtepine, te rrembejne motren apo nenen dhe te
mos kesh mundesi qe te besh asgje?

Kurse ti rrin e flet per BAGETI e COBAN. O Albana kuptoje se ku e kam fjalen.
Une nuk po flitja as per ti marre te drejta grava e as per tia shtuar? Po ama
situaten duhet ta ballafaqosh e jo te rrish te hapesh libra e te thuash : Libri
im i te drejtave te njeriut thote keshtu e ashtu. 

Po per po, mir e ka libri jot por ajo qe po them une eshte : Kur kerrcet plumbi
fjalet i merr era.
Prandaj edhe nje here para se te mundoheni qe te gjukoni nje vend dhe ta
etikoni si shtypes te te drejatve te femrave se femrat nuk dalin rruges vetem
pa shoqerues etj.
Konsideroni situaten. Se mbase do ta kuptosh qe jeta eshte pak me ndryshe sesa
ce paraqesin librat.



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From diana35_1 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  6 16:09:05 2000
From: diana35_1 at yahoo.com (D.)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 13:09:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Dy shembuj
Message-ID: <20001206210905.10444.qmail@web3407.mail.yahoo.com>

   Dy shembuj egzibicionisto-intelektualiste mbi
paraqitjen  sa me moderne dhe efikase te gjerave dhe  
atyre qe rrjedhin nga gjerat.

Shembulli 1. Paraqitja e mendimit
Menyra e paraqitjes se idese perpara nje grupi
njerezish, apo te komunikuarit, i dashur Edmond , ka
shume rendesi. P.sh. si e shpjegon ti faktin qe ne
Amerike,  mbajtjen e fjales ta shprehin sic e thua ti
:
 ? Ne amerike, gjeja e pare qe te mesojne ne boten e
biznesit eshte: Mbaj fjalen" ose " Ji aq i mencur sa
te mos e japesh kurre fjalen per dicka qe s'je i
sigurt se do e mbash" Vetem keshtu krijohet
kredibilitet tek te tjeret, kur fjala jote ka peshe
dhe nuk eshte nje fjale e dhene sa per te kaluar nje
moment te veshtire ne marrdheniet me njerezit apo sa
per te arritur nje qellim te caktuar dhe pastaj pa
piken e turpit te thuash qe s'e mbajte dot. ?
Kurse ne Shqiperi : ? shqiptari kur jep fjalen therr  
edhe djalen ?. 
Nuk te duket ty se ka nje diference midis menyres
amerikane dhe shqiptare te komunikimit mbi rendesine e
kredibilitetit? Ti vete, kur te edukosh kalamajte, do
zgjedhesh menyren amerikane apo shqiptare te te
shprehurit ? A nuk te duket ty se simbolika shqiptare
ne kete rast nuk shpreh vecse hipokrizi dhe e perdorur
ne vitin 2000 eshte jashtezakonisht qesharake? Nuk te
duket se kjo simbolike e ka vendin ne epokat e para
eres se re? Nuk te duket ty kjo menyre te shprehuri e
gjerave fondamentale te moralit, teper primitive ? Nuk
te duket ty se gjerat, pra edhe komunikimi njerezor,
apo paraqitja e ideve, ne Amerike kane evoluar por jo
ne Shqiperi ? A nuk te duket se ka ardhur koha qe te
shikojme pa frike realitetin ne sy se ndryshe s?do te
arrijme dot ta ndryshojme ? 
Jo, une nuk do te kerkoj shembuj ne histori se a ka
pasur shqiptare qe kane therrur djemte per te qene
kredibel. Une te ftoj ty dhe te tjereve te kerkojme
shembuj se KUR kombi yne e mbajti fjalen? Mos valle
mbajti fjalen me Perendine kur lame krishterimin dhe u
kthyem ne myslymane? Vetem veri gjerat ne epoken
perkatese, se te nderrosh fe apo te jesh i pafe ne
vitin 2000 nuk eshte e njejta gje si ne 1500 !
Shembulli 2. Paraqitja e gjelleve
Disa kohe me pare Piftua na solli nje recete kuzhine
me sy dhe dicka xhelatinoze disi te embel nen te. Te
njejtat receta ai i paraqiti me virtuozitet ne
konkursin internacional ? Gjelle per Frankenshtajnin
?. Pavaresisht nga detajimi serioz i ingredienteve dhe
menyres se gatimit, Piftua e humbi te drejten te
zgjidhet Kuzhinjeri i Vitit per nje gabim te vogel, qe
mua me duket me interes per te gjithe ata per te cilet
guzhina eshte nje pasion me shume ne kete bote te
kokolepsur. Gjithashtu edhe per ata te cilet mendojne
se paraqitja e gjerave evoluon. Gabimi fatal i
Piftos(qe ne fakt nuk ishte vecse nje harrese e nje
guzhinjeri jo konsumator te gjelleve qe gatuan) ishte
: vendosja e syve mbi xhelatine. Thjesht, thate, pa
menduar se syri nuk kapet me pirun dhe se te hash
syrin me dore ne epoken tone sikur stonon caze.
Perpara se te arrije prehjen perfundimtare mbi
xhelatine, syri pershkohet nga nje KRUARESE DHEMBESH,
me preference ngjyre te kuqe per analogji me gjakun, i
cili ky i fundit,  presupozohet te kulloje nga ai.
Pastaj, kruaresja e dhembeve se bashku me syrin,
ngulen lehtas, me shume delikatese, ne menyre qe te
mos kete asnje krisje mbi siperfaqen e shndritshme
peltike(nga fjala pelte), mbi xhelatine. Kjo natyre e
qete post mortum, rehaton mishngrenesin. I paraqit
atij ne menyre koncize dhe evidente mundesine e
grabitjes se syrit nga pjatanca pa pasoja dhe
hezitime.

Sehr, sehr, guten apetit???mit viele rahm???und zimt 

 


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From kbejko at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 16:32:26 2000
From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 21:32:26 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Sondazh:Ngjarjet e tropojes
Message-ID: <LC5-LFD96gMSMeEBl8Y000000e4@hotmail.com>

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From ydemneri at club-internet.fr  Wed Dec  6 17:08:04 2000
From: ydemneri at club-internet.fr (demneri)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 23:08:04 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Perse jo ?
Message-ID: <B6547754.EF8%ydemneri@club-internet.fr>

Pjesemarres te Alb-Club-it,
Duke menduar se kemi te drejte dhe te argetohemi do te doja t'ju propozoja
nje lloj loje. Nje loje qe ve ne levizje imagjinaten dhe qe krijon kontakte
dhe lidhje me te medha me njeri-tjetrin dhe qe i mund ti beje aktive te
gjithe pa dallime feje, bindje krahine apo ideje (mos qeshni se dhe mua m'u
kujtua konferenca e Pezes). Pa e zgjatur po jua shpjegoj :
Dikush nga ne fillon nje histori. Ajo mund te jete 1 rrjesht, 2 rrjeshta,
5,6,7,8,9,10 e deri ne 50. Pra gjatesia nuk ka rendesi. Nuk ka asnje
percaktim ne llojin e subjektit dhe asnje kufizim ne kohe dhe hapsire.Nuk ka
asnje kufizim ne lloj, ai mund te jete realist, fantastik,
fantastiko-shkencor, policor etj. Dhe asnje rregull ne forme e permbajtje.
Ai qe e ka nisur historine e le ate ne mes (aty ku i teket), pastaj secili
nga ne duhet te shkruaj vazhdimin dhe ta lere (aty ku i teket), e keshtu me
rradhe. Gjithesecili mund te shtoje apo te heqe personazhe (sigurisht duke
justifikuar largimin e tyre), por nuk eshte kondite t'i qendrohet besnik
kohes, hapsires apo vendit te shkrimit paraardhes.
Nga eksperienca kam vene re se ne fillim shumica ngurojne, pastaj
aktivizohen e madje entuziasmohen. Per kete loje mund te perdoren dhe
pseudonimet nuk ka ndonje gje te keqe. Njekohesisht kerkohet dhe ndihma e
moderatoreve. Besoj se kjo hapsire nuk do ti mbuloje temat e tjera, ato me
SERIOZET.
Meqe e mora vete kete inisiative po e filloj  i pari.
Imagjinate te mbare !
Y.D

Kur hapa deren e guzhines nuk doja qe nena ta kuptonte qe kisha pire. Ajo i
kishte zet ato qe pinin. Sapo isha ndare nga









From URAN37 at aol.com  Wed Dec  6 19:16:59 2000
From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:16:59 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Perse jo ?
Message-ID: <36.ee3bb2c.276030fb@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/6/00 5:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ydemneri at club-internet.fr writes:

<< 
 Kur hapa deren e guzhines nuk doja qe nena ta kuptonte qe kisha pire. Ajo i
 kishte zet ato qe pinin. Sapo isha ndare nga
  >>
Saliu dhe ministri i tregtise. pasi ndame parate ne menyre te pabarabarte (se 
helbete opozita duhet te marre nje cike me pak ) i futem dhe nje te shpelare 
me birra e konjaqe . mendja me rrinte tek fjalet e ministrit ;; kur bojne 
aheng grupi ,klarinetes i takojne i cik ma shume apo jo zoti doktor:: ishin 
keto fjale qe me binden mua  si investitor  nga jashte po mesa lexova ne syte 
e Sales kuptova se ai kish ne mendje po ate formulim qe kish shprehur pas cdo 
pazari ;; ( ta shofim kur ti fitoj une zgjedhjet se kush do ti bije 
klarinetes e kush do maj ison "')
 tek ruhesha nga nena nenvleftesova faktin qe im ate nuk flinte pa me pritur 
mua. dhe si pa pritur  u gjeta ne dhomen ku televizori dhe im ate i benin 
shoqeri njeri tjetrit.
 them shoqeri pasi shpesh babai dremiste perpara tij dhe ne kete pozicion 
marredheniesh mamaja spushonte se theni .se di ashef ai televizor apo shef 
televizori ate .  mu drejtua dhe me tha, akuzojne politikanet per  pislliqe 
me tenderat ndaj hap syte ku hedh parate se biznesi ktu seshte si ne amerike 
. shumica politikaneve kane marre dokumentat gjetiu ketu rrine vetem per para 
ndaj hap syte te them ,dhe iku sikur nje femi pa i dhene rendesi  buzeve te 
mia qe filluan te artikulonin ngadale fjalet.............


From epiphanius at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  6 23:13:08 2000
From: epiphanius at yahoo.com (Dan Khazar)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:13:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] THE GLITCH
Message-ID: <20001207041308.24711.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>

THE GLITCH

The first thing that I noticed when I entered the
sumptuous studio was one of those splendid hand-made
Italian globes, encased in a piece of walnut furniture
standing on its four sturdy, but still graceful legs ?
something more of a genuine art piece, rather than a
bare instrument of knowledge. 

?Yeah, I see you didn?t miss my Bassari globe,? the
professor said behind my back, sounding exquisitely
pleased. ?I should say I am very proud of it. Think
that there are only three of them left in the whole
world!?

?In the whole world,? I smiled, pointing at the globe.

?This one was made on order for Vittorio Emmanuele the
3rd,? the professor explained, as he invited me to
take a seat right in front of the splendid library.
?The maestro himself was too old at the time, so he
had two of his assistants help him. The craftsmanship,
though, is entirely his. Look at this knob here,? and
he showed me the bulbous protuberance right upon the
North Pole. ?Touch it, go ahead. Feel its warmth. And
of course, you can rotate it, with the slightest
effort. Everything is balanced to perfection.
Mechanisms such as the one it has inside are not done
any more, nobody would know how to.?

I stared at the Americas passing swiftly under my
eyes, as the globe noiselessly turned around its axis.


?I hope you admire the quality of the drawing too,?
the professor added. ?I am told the style is heavily
indebted to Late-Renaissance Florentine pyrographers,
say Della Monaca, or even Targizio.?

The rotation came to a stop, as I pressed my fingers
somewhere upon the Gobi Desert.

?The captions are all in Latin, as it suits a
masterpiece of the kind. Note please the amazing
detail. And accuracy.? The professor must have already
given this performance with countless guests, but it
seemed he was getting more pleasure from his own show,
than I from being allowed to play with this otherwise
forbidden toy. 

?Look then at the typeface, Pseudo-Gothic, but the
texture is impeccable, as you can see for yourself.
Nothing kitsch in it ? I would even venture to say
it?s the exact contrary of kitsch. The globe, after
all, remains perfectly usable, the maps are of the
space-shuttle era. It goes without saying ? with the
added, lateral reference to an epoch when geography
could still be a noble challenge to the noblest of
minds.?

I could not but agree, while enjoying the warmth of
old wood, under my fingertips.

?From your name, I am allowed to guess you are from
Eastern Europe,? the professor said, getting suddenly
businesslike and professional. ?Thrace??

?Actually, it is Albania,? I precised.

?Albania!? he exclaimed, as if blaming himself for not
having guessed it at first try. ?Scanderbeg, Ali
Pasha, Mother Theresa. Small country, great history!?

The globe had begun to turn, even before I could order
my fingers to restart with the gentle pushing. Like a
first Albanian man in space, I approached my country
counterclockwise, via the Arabic Peninsula, then over
the Asia Minor.

?The irony of fate,? the professor observed, ?that
Vittorio Emmanuele the 3rd, who was supposed to
receive this piece, used to be your emperor for . . .?

I could not hear the last of his words.

?There?s no Albania here,? I said, staring with
disbelief at the whitish-yellow spot on the map, right
where the country was supposed to be.

?My dear friend, you have lived for such a long time
away from your country, that you seem to have
forgotten its location on the map,? the professor
joked frivolously, then got closer to the globe, to
help with my desperate quest.

?Damn it, the spot,? he cursed. ?This damned spot!
There was a spot, of course. A scratching due to a
careless porter, or a simple vandal ? you know, these
low-class bastards, what they are capable of! Very
minor indeed, an expert in old furniture restoration
would fix it in less than a day?s work. Adapt the
color, smooth out the surface, make it invisible to
the eye, unless . . .?

I kept rubbing my finger on the spot, hoping that
somehow the yellowish crust would peel off letting my
country reappear from underneath.

?Of course, I could have had the drawing and the
writing redone,? the professor continued, words
bursting out like soap bubbles from his humid mouth.
?But I opted not to. It would have been such of an
adulteration, that Bassari surely does not deserve.
Albania ? who would have thought? Of all the
countries??

We stood for a while in silence, as I kept the bald
spot well covered with my joined fingers, although it
kind of burned.

?Maybe you are right,? he said, with a sigh. ?Maybe
it?s nothing but a huge, useless toy. Genuinely fake,
stands there for its presumed age. Maybe I should give
it away to the Library of Congress. Maybe . . . Sorry,
though, you should not touch its surface with your
fingers for so long. Too delicate, too sensitive to a
suddenly altered pH, I hope you understand.?



(c) 2000 Dan Khazar

*******


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From KNdreu3207 at aol.com  Thu Dec  7 01:00:18 2000
From: KNdreu3207 at aol.com (KNdreu3207 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:00:18 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] DEVIL'S CODE
Message-ID: <4e.e5ecd16.27608172@aol.com>

DEVIL' CODE

LIFE is about LOVE.
Between one love and the other
We do other things like :
Grow up , go to school , go to work.
Sometime you are in love with the idea of being in love.
Sometime , you send loving intentions
Sometime you , like loving meditation
Sometime you find yourself seeking appruval
>From others , for your love !

Listen to your heart , respect your intuition !

LOVE is about SEX .
Between one sex and the other
You do other things like :
Go shoping , wash dishes and come back to sex again.
Sometimes we know , our cells are speaking to each other
Sometimes our breath get close , to molecular level
Sometimes our skin becomes one,starting chemical reactions
And sometimes you just do it instictly
'Couse we are human animals !

Listen to your drive , respect your body !

SEX is obout LIFE 
Between your life and life you create
You do other things like :
Get married,care for kids and die.
Sametime you live a happy life
Sametime you have a greedy one
Sametime you dont know what to do with it
And sometime she takes you over its waves
Not understanding you lived it !

Listen to God , respect Devil !

Nick,Ridgefield,11/16/2000 

 
 
     Message 3119 of 3287       
 


From mondib at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  7 01:00:58 2000
From: mondib at yahoo.com (edmond baho)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:00:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Besa shqiptare
Message-ID: <20001207060058.4166.qmail@web6201.mail.yahoo.com>


"D." <diana35_1 at yahoo.com> wtote:

> A nuk te duket ty se simbolika shqiptare
> ne kete rast nuk shpreh vecse hipokrizi dhe e perdorur
> ne vitin 2000 eshte jashtezakonisht qesharake? Nuk te
> duket se kjo simbolike e ka vendin ne epokat e para
> eres se re? A nuk te duket se ka ardhur koha qe te
> shikojme pa frike realitetin ne sy se ndryshe s?do te
> arrijme dot ta ndryshojme ? 
> Une te ftoj ty dhe te tjereve te kerkojme
> shembuj se KUR kombi yne e mbajti fjalen? Mos valle
> mbajti fjalen me Perendine kur lame krishterimin dhe u
> kthyem ne myslymane? Vetem veri gjerat ne epoken
> perkatese, se te nderrosh fe apo te jesh i pafe ne
> vitin 2000 nuk eshte e njejta gje si ne 1500 !


E dashur zonja/zonjusha D.,

Nuk eshte hera e pare qe ti ke veshtiresi te kuptosh thelbin e asaj qe
po diskutohet dhe kam vene re se ke shume qejf te jesh patjeter ne
relata antagoniste me dike ose me te gjithe po te jete e mundur, gje qe
arrin ta besh me nje agresivitet idiot dhe pa piken e kuptimit. Une ne
mesazhin tim te pare, thjesht vura ne dyshim se sa mire mund ta kesh
kuptuar ti dhe GH fjalen e urte te cilen vendoset ta komentoni duke e
bere fije-fije, rrokezuar, germezuar dhe se fundi duke i nxjerre nje
kuptim qe ajo nuk e ka. Sa per dijeni antagonizmi yne, i imi dhe i yti
ne kete diskutim, po qe se ka te tille, nuk eshte se sa te beses jane
shqiptaret apo jo. Ti ke shume qejf te shkruash e te qendisesh nga nje
mesazh per syte e veshet e listes nje here ne 24 ore por e mira do
ishte qe te kapesh thelbin e asaj qe thuhet me pare se sa te komentosh.
Me qe ra fjala, une mund te marr mundimin dhe te te them se sipas
mendimit tim pellgu i Mesdheut, perfshi ketu Ballkanin (pra dhe
Shqiperine), Italine, Qipron jane nga vendet ku njerezit dallohen per
nje temperament sanguin, per llafazaneri, per kiss-ass, per nje charm
te nje shkalle te caktuar dhe per natyra te djallezuara e qe nuk mund
t'u zihet bese lehte. 
Nga ana tjeter fjalet e urta nuk jane gje tjeter vecse thenie te dikujt
qe per nga efekti qe kane bere ne kohen qe jane thene dhe per nga
mesazhi qe kane bartur, jane kthyer ne nje si "refren" qe njerez te nje
bashkesie te caktuar e perdorin papagallisht per nje nevoje qe ata mund
te kene; per nevojen per te justifikuar veprime te ndryshme, per te
motivuar e frymezuar veten, per te gjetur paqe e qetesi, per te
mbrojtur nje seder te vrare e te tjera e te tjera aresye si keto.
Qe proverbi: "shqiptari kur jep fjalen, therr edhe djalen" bart kaq
shume makabritet dhe tragjizem ne vetvete kjo ka shume aresye, njera
nga te cilat qe mund te me vije ne mend tani per shembull mund te jete
qe tamam ne Shqiperi ku njerezit s'e kishin per gje te nderronin fene
per gjera banale (krahasimisht banale) sic jane taksimet e Perandorise
Otomane per shembull, ose kur zhvillonin nje tregeti me fqinjet per
shembull, qe therriste per dinakeri te pashoqe apo me vone kur njerezit
s'e kishin per gje qe te te spiunonin pse ti shikoje nje film tek
Italia, apo pse te shpetoi nje fjale dhe the se gjendja ne Shqiperi
eshte mizerie, pra tamam aty ku njeriu ishte i rrethuar nga pabesia,
eshte me se e kuptueshme qe te zhvillohet kulti i beses me shume dhe
eshte me se e kuptueshme qe aq me te fuqishme do jene imazhet qe do te
te ngjallen qofte dhe vetem me nje fjale te urte mbi kete institucion
te beses, kaq te nevojshem dhe te desheruar. 
Nga ana tjeter, ajo qe u perpoqa te them une me mesazhin tim te
meparshem qe se ju s'mund t'i trajtoni keshtu fjalet e urta sepse do
rrezikoheni te degjoheni krejtesisht qesharake. Ka shume mundesi qem
ate proverbin tjeter per shembull, " kur s' ke c'i ben gomarit, i bie
samarit", te filloni dhe te na e nxirrni se eshte makaber sepse evokon
keqtrajtimin e kafsheve (ose te samareve te tyre)
Por ajo qe une kam pershtypjen se juve beni, dhe kur them juve kam
parasysh ty kryesisht dhe ne nje fare mase dhe GH, per te kenaqur
nevojen tuaj per egzibicion (nje nevoje me se e perligjur dhe shume e
pergjithshme dhe une s'mund te fsheh qe e kam edhe vete shpesh ne
nivele te ndryshme dhe ne ambiente te ndryshme), kapni nje pozicion qe
ju, dhe vetem ju,  mendoni se eshte komod: le te terheqim vemendjen
duke iu rene kokes ketyre "patrioteve"! (!!!)

 Eshte lehte per ta bere dhe une e kam thene dhe me pare qe njeriu gjen
nje mije e nje te zeza po te doje te nxije. Problemi eshte se per
mendimin tim ata qe e bejne me lehte kete gje jane pikerisht ata njerez
qe s'kane jo vetem respekt per vetveten jo e jo, por dhe qe iu vjen
turp per vendin nga i cili kane ardhur dhe iu vjen turp tamam per
pjesen shqiptare te vetes se tyre, qe jo se duhet te jete dhe pjesa me
dominante e persona-s se dikujt, por pa dyshim qe ze nje vend shume te
rendesishem dhe do ngreje vazhdimisht krye prandaj na intereson te
gjitheve te bejme paqe pikerisht me ate pjese te vetes tone. Perpiquni
te keni me shume integritet o njerez te mire, kujtoni se cfare keni
menduar e besuar kur keni qene 10 vjec, 20, 30, 40...Si keni jetuar
atehere? Cilat kane qene deshirat e ambiciet tuaja? Mendohuni dhe
pastaj shikoni se ku jeni tani dhe kur te kuptoni se keni ndryshuar, 
merreni veten vetem me te mire dhe pranoni zhvillimin dhe ndryshimin
(akoma dhe ate kryekeput) si nje proces te natyrshem. Mos u poziciononi
vazhdimisht si kritizere te gjithckaje dhe te te gjitheve, por me shume
si bashkevuajtes e bashkefajtore per te kaluaren, dhe me e
rendesishmja, te perpiqemi te shohim veten tone te tanishme si nje
pjese vazhdimese e vetes sone te meperpareshme por e evoluar tashme,
dhe jo si dicka krejt tjeter, qe perbuz e percmon cdo gje por sidomos
te kaluaren e vet dhe te gjithe ata njerez (bashkeatdhetare kryesisht)
qe ua kujtojne ate te kaluar. Nuk di sa e lehte eshte per shqiptaret qe
jetojne ne Europe apo gjetke  nje gje e tille, duke patur parasysh
racizmin dhe trajtimin e keq qe ju behet nga vendasit apo ne
pergjithesi nga mentaliteti dhe politika e shteteve evropiane karshi te
huajve, sidomos ayre evropianolindore, dhe duke pasur parasysh sesa
mendjengushte jane ne pergjithesi europianet sidomos ne ceshtje te
kesaj natyre, ku nje titull gazete qe permend nje shqiptar qe vrau,
perdhunoi apo vodhi, i ben ata qe t'ju vene vizen te gjitheve me
rradhe. Kjo per fat te mire nuk ndodh ne Amerike, Australi dhe Kanada
me sa di une. Ky keqtrajtim i shqiptareve ne Evrope, per reaksion, i
ben nje pjese shume te mire te mos duan t'ua shohin bojen jo Shqiperise
jo e jo, por asnje shqiptari, dhe paturpesisht, i kam pare me syte e
mi, se si distancohen menjehere perpara miqve te tyre europiane jo
vetem nga kriminelet, se kjo do te ishte e natyrshme dhe te gjithe e
bejme, por edhe nga nje familje shqiptare e sapoardhur, e veshur me
rroba tezgash, dhe e hutuar nga vendi i huaj dhe nga gjuha e huaj qe
kerkon te gjeje te beje punet me te ndyra, te cilat mendon se jane te
vetmet per te cilat s'do hasin konkurrencen e vendasve. Dhe keta tipat
nihiliste ketu ne liste, zakonisht i ke te paret qe te flasin per
Global Village , per perqafimin e homoseksualizmit, dhe per te tjera
fenomene "ala shekulli XXI", bejne si bejne dhe fusin dhe ca rreshta
frengjisht e gjermanisht ( mire-keq), kurse kontradikta qe kane si
persona,  vete-imazhi i perendimorit modern dhe ajo pjesa shqiptare te
cilen s'e heqin qafe dot megjithe perpjekjet frenetike, iu ngre krye
menjehere sapo perpiqen te bejne humor si puna e zonjes D.,  qe
djersitet qe te beje ndonje njeri per te qeshur me nje stil si ai i
estrades se Kombinatit, dhe une qe ndihem keq cdo dite kur i shoh
sforcot e saj per te thene ndonje gje "komike"  them me vete: " Ore, po
kjo po sheh qamet qe te me zbavise dhe te me shkrije gazit dhe une hic!
 Dicka nuk shkon me mua, mor vlla"
E nderuar D. Nuk dua fare ta ve me ty, sinqerisht, por vetem do doja te
shtoja se  do te uroja me gjithe zemer qe pas incialit D. te jete nje
burre qe provon doren dhe shkruan si grua, dicka si puna e personazhit
te Hall Qomilit, perndryshe ti si femer me ato qe shkruan dhe me
menyren se si i shkruan, qe nga Cheap, cheep, chip e deri tek Glu, glu,
glu, mua me prish ne menyre te pakorrigjueshme te gjithe idene time per
feminilitetin ne pergjithesi.

Ndersa GH shkruan:
" Detyrimet kontraktore i njeh edhe e drejta zakonore shqiptare, te
perqendruar kryesisht nen institucionin e BESES. Pavaresisht se sa te
varfer
dhe te mjeruar kane qene shqiptaret dhe pavaresisht se sa edhe me te
varfer
dhe te mjeruar do te jene ata ne te ardhmen ...(prere)

Qe ne perspektiven qe sheh GH per shqiptaret ("..se sa me te varfer do
te jene ata ne te ardhmen.."  -dhe jo- "...se sa me te varfer APO me te
pasur do jene ata ne te ardhmen" - gje qe nje njeri me background
juridik sic me duket te jete prezantuar GH ketu apo nga pershtypja qe
kam per ato qe shkruan, do ta bente thjesht per te marre te gjitha
opsionet e mundeshme logjike)  mua fillon te me vije keq per te, per
bindjen sidomos qe ai ka se pozicionimi negativ ndaj vendit te vet dhe
ndaj njerezve me te cilet ndan te kaluaren e vet, i siguron statusin e
personit qe " i thote gjerat me emrin qe kane!" apo " i bie kokes!" Une
pa egzagjeruar  aspak do te thosha qe kjo eshte shemti. Shemti 
shpirterore dhe shemti morale.

Dhe me pas vazhdon:
 " ...BESA ka qene SHPRESA e kontinuitetit te tyre, pjese integrale e
gjithe folklorit dhe madheshtise se moralitetit te tyre, gje qe gjen
misherimin e vet tek lekundet diku midis antropofagismit dhe
nekroflise." 

Antropofagizmi dhe nekrofilia? Une nuk kam asnje dyshim se keto jane
nocione/fenomene fare te huaja per kulturen shqiptare dhe vetem nje
njeri qe do te beje efekt me fjale qe bartin peshe emocionale apo dhe
vizion te kesaj natyre mund t'i perdore ato vend e pa vend. Do isha
kurioz te dija se sa nga ju qenkan tmerruar ne femijeri me imazhe te
babait qe therr femijen (per ceshtje bese)? Sa nga ju jane torturuar me
makthe te njerezve qe hane njerez apo qe bejne dashuri me te vdekurit?
A jane keto fenomene qe te gjithe ose i kemi mesuar teorikisht neper
libra ose filma horror ose i kemi degjuar (megjithese dhe kjo shume
rralle) ne keto botet ku jetojme tani? Sa nga ju nuk e kane asociuar
besen thjesht me ate mikun qe i lodhur naten vendose te bujte tek nje i
panjohur ne nje katund ne bjeshke, dhe ku i behet nderi dhe vihet ne
balle te vendit, dhe i zoti shtepise me pare vritet vete se sa ta lere
mikur t'i ndodhe gje? Po ku ka gje me fisnike se sa te mundesh te
ofrosh nje siguri te tille nje te panjohuri vetem sepse ai pa te njohur
ta la veten ne dore ne mes te nates? Cfare ka ketu per primitivizem,
apo ca me pak antropofagizem dhe nekrofili? 
A nuk eshte ky nje egzibicionizem bosh, po bosh fare ama? 
GH, une do te te propozoja shume miqesisht qe ti te gjitha historite e
panatyrshme qe shpik apo degjon si per shembull ajo historia me ate qe
do te prese thonjte qe te mos lere shenja apo ku di une cfare tjeter te
cilat ti i ke me bollek, thjesht na i trego si historira qe te
zbavitemi sepse vertet jane cool, por mos u mundo t'i inkuadrosh
detyrimisht ne nje sfond juridiko-historiko-analitik sepse shpesh me
duket se per hir te ca gjetjeve te pazakonta dhe per hir te nje ambicie
te cuditshme qe t'e trajtosh tema ne planin historik dhe shoqeror, i
perzien te dyja bashke dhe deshira per te terhequr vemendjen me
formulime te sterholluara te nxjerr direkt fishek nga logjika e se
teres. Thjesht mendimi im. Megjithate te heq kapelen per fantazine dhe
imagjinaten, pavaresisht se s'jam dakord fare me shumicen e
perfundimeve qe ti kerkon te nxjerresh me mesazhet e tua.

Te fala,
E. B.

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From olsi at rocketmail.com  Thu Dec  7 01:48:32 2000
From: olsi at rocketmail.com (Olsi)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:48:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Mjaft ju lutem!
Message-ID: <20001207064833.27035.qmail@web2901.mail.yahoo.com>

Zoterinje te alb-club-it

Ju lutem, pasiqe edhe vete e dime se jemi njerez me
percepsione te ndryshme ne jete (me derivate qe nga
besimtari i verber e deri tek mbajtesi i p... ne dore e tek
qafiri i mirefillte), ju lus qe bisedat rreth fese ti lejme
menjane, pse halli eshte se sic edhe z.Demneri tha me pare
ne kete liste, fale injorances sone, keqkuptimeve,
stereotipeve etj... ne po i bejme dem feve ne vend qe ti
ndihmojme ato. (Zoti na falte per mosperfekshmerine tone)

I kerkoj falje publike cdokujt ne alb-club qe mund te jete
fyer ndonjehere nga une apo per ndonje mesazh qe ka qene jo
i mire, dhe gjithkush ne alb-club LE TA DIJE se nese dicka
e papelqyer eshte shkruar nga une ne kete liste, ajo e keqe
eshte pse UNE JAM I TILLE, dhe jo feja ne te cilen une apo
te tjere besojne.

Kurse per idiotet qe kujtojne se ne kete liste shkruhet nga
Kuala Lumpuri i sqaroj tulet (qe shkruajne me nga 2-3 emra
... ne disa raste behen edhe musliman...) qe nga Malajzia
mesa di vetem une jam ketu qe shkruaj plus ndonje te rrali
me raste festash, dhe te tjeret nese nuk jam gabim jane ne
US.... dhe se une kam pa shkruar ne kete liste per me shume
se 1 jave besoj .........
Kurse nje tigan punuesi qe me pare kujtonte se 'ervini' i
kesaj liste eshte Ervin Hatibi e siguroj se ai poet i
rrespektuar Shqiptar nuk eshte aspak ne kete liste, keshtu
qe ju lus qe per hire te fanatizmave dhe budalleqeve tona
te zakonshme te mos e cenojme ate person pa te drejte.

Me falni per shqetesimin,,,,,,
dhe njefaresoje e mbeshtes vendimin e moderatoreve per
ndalimin e replikave rreth fese ne kete liste (jo vetem
Islamit por edhe te tjerave) kjo per 2 arsye:

1. Shume pak veta ne alb-club e kuptojne fene si duhet dhe
shume nga ata qe njohin, e njohin nga burime jo te sinqerta

2. Niveli jone kulturor nuk eshte i atille qe te kuptojme
fete si duhet... 

me nderime
Olsi

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From pifto at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  7 05:28:19 2000
From: pifto at hotmail.com (GH)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:28:19 +0100
Subject: Fw: [Alb-club] Besa shqiptare
Message-ID: <OE52Ikmeyqbb4MAdGPr000064e4@hotmail.com>

I dashur Edmond Baho,

ne ndoshta nuk kemi asnje mundesi te merremi vesh me njeri - tjetrin,
persakohe qe te dy kemi disa kritere teper te ndryshme per zgjedhjen e
mjeteve stilistike si dhe vleresimin e tyre dhe kjo nuk eshte ndonje
fatkeqesi e madhe. Stili se shkruan dikush ashtu sic eshte ceshtje
personale, eshte edhe dicka qe ka te beje me spontanitetin dhe do te ishte
shume gabim sikur dikush te rrinte tani dhe t'ju spiegonte te tjereve se pse
shkruan nga keto dhe jo nga ato gjera. Ka shume mundesi qe misoni i
egzistences se alb - club te jete ai zbulimit dhe elaborimit te te vertetes
historike absolute shqiptare nepermjet shkrimeve analitike teper shkencore
te nje niveli akademik relativisht te larte, nderkohe qe dikush tjeter krejt
gabimisht e ka pare si nje mundesi te zhvillimit te nje menyre te re
komunikimi te shqiptareve ndermjet tyre, me dicka me teper humor dhe
vete-kritike, sport ky shume i shendetshem, te cilin perndryshe e aplikojne
kudo ne Evrope pa rrezikuar asnjehere me pas, qe njerezit te thyejne qafen
tek zbresin gjithe vetemohim ne labirinthet e historise kombetare. Kombe
tejet serioze, te cilat pa ju dridhur qerpiku filluan te pakten dy lufte
boterore, me fytyra, te cilat perseri ne femijnine shqiptare shperdoroheshin
per te torturuar ata qe nuk e hanin deri ne fund persheshin, dikur (kjo
cuditerisht kryesisht fale amerikaneve) vendosen qe gjithe boten, historine,
moralin, bashkesine e tabuve historike te tyre t'i kthejne me koke poshte
duke mundur keshtu te clirohen nga disa ngerce mbarekombetare historike te
nje emocionaliteti te vecante. Ne kete pike gjerat filluan te funksionojne
me mire, njerezit filluan ta kuptojne me mire njeri - tjetrin, lindi nje
menyre e re komunikimi, shume ME TEPER komunikative, u mund te shkembehej me
teper informacion, dhe mua do te me dukej se ne kete menyre do te duhet te
jene pershpejtuar edhe proceset e zhvillimit intelektual te mases se
njerezve, shpirtrat e te cileve deri dje ishin ende veshur me uniforma
ushtarake (si edhe ne Shqiperinene e deri vitit 1990). Pra gjithcka behet
per te shtyre kufijte e tolerances gjithnje e me tej i dashur Edmond Baho,
dhe ketu do te duhej te ishte eshte garancia e suksesit te nje procesi
evolutiv social apo historik. Megjithate cdo gje eshte ceshtje perspektive
vezhgimi dhe megjithese nje gje eshte gjithnje e njejta gje, perseri nuk
eshte e njejta gje. Bile edhe atje ku gjerat jane vendosur per te qene
gjithnje te njejtat gjera, per shembull ne muzeum, ato nuk jane e njetja
gje, sepse ti, une, te tjeret te gjithe kemi nje preference te caktuar per
nje interpretim te rrethanave apo objekteve me te cilat konfrontohemi, dhe
meqe jemi ne muzeum, le te shohim nje moment se cfare ndodh atje.

Quatsch

Tre djelmosha rrine ne Muzeumin Kombetar perpra nje kubi prej xhami dhe
shohin me detyrim nofullen e e poshtme te te ilirit te pare, qe duhet te
kafshuar serbin e pare, qe okupoi territoret shqiptare te dikurshme. Per te
respektuar traditen e lashte ata do te duhet te rrinin dhe ta admironin ne
heshtje gjithe respekt ate nofull, qe shume mire do te kishte mundur te
gjente vend edhe ne muzeumin e shkencave te natyres, dhe pikerisht ne
seksionin kur jane ekspozuar disa lloj koralesh te vecanta te Detit te Kuq,
mbi te cilat dikur gjate Luftes Gjashteditore me nje rakete toke ajer te
prodhimit sovjetik mbrojtja kunderajrore bregdetare egjiptiane rrezoi nje
transportues izralit civil, nisur nga nje drejtim vetem i dyshuar, perreth
teneqeve te mbetura te tij pas 20 vjetesh Green Peace mundi te konstatoje
nje radioaktivitet te cikleve shperberese dhe niveleve tille, te
krahasueshem me ato te oborreve kooperativiste te disa bujqeve ukrainas te
sistemuar ne rrethinat e disa impianteve energjitike ne pranveren e vone te
vitit 1986. Nje teknik dritash, krejt me koken e vet dhe cfare eshte me e
rendesishme, me nje koke te mbushur me disa paranoia te nje xhelozie
patollogjike, kubin prej qelqi, mbi nje piedestal te vockel prej kadifeje
fushe te zeze me mes te tij eshte vendosur edhe nofulla ne fjale, e ka
ndricuar me nje drite ngjyre lejla, teper te zbehte, buruar nga disa
projektore te veckel halogjene vendosur ne qoshet ekstreme te siperme te
dhomes, nderkohe qe nje nje fije drite e kuqe flake, me burim te levizshem,
me trashesi disa te dhjetat e milimetrit eshta e vetmja ajo e cila per arsye
sigurimi hyn dot ne kubin tone, per t'u thyer pastaj disa here ne menyra te
ndryshme brenda disa fraksioneve te sekondes mbi paretet vetem brenda tij
(kubit), derisa dikur hyn gjithnje ne nje karie te treshit siper majtas prej
nga ku nuk del me kurre. Perndryshe ne sfondin e erret te salles mund te
vihet re vetem dalja e saj ne nje salle tjeter (ndoshta ne ate qe i eshte
dedikuar zbulimit te zjarrit nga iliret), ne prag te te ciles eshte e ulur
nje karrige nje pensioniste reumatike, e rrenuar perfundimisht nga firmat
piramidale, e cila me cilesine e rojes se muzeumit permireson te ardhurat e
veta, tek nder te tjera thurr edhe nje triko me shtiza duke i numruar shpejt
me vete me ze nyjet qe i rrethton njera pas tjeter, tek thur nje model
tashme te mirestervitur me gershet.
Nderkohe qe roja yne me shtiza ka perfunduar mengen e dyte ate paradite dhe
eshte duke e krahasuar me te pare, mbaruar dje, kur nofullen ne fjale e
vizituan nje grup vajzash nga  gjimnazi jezuit femror, per sjelljen e tyre
ne kete salle te erret ndoshta do te duhej folur nje here tjeter, tre
djelmoshat tane kane vetem 5 minuta kohe per te:

1. Ta kqyrur nofullen gjithe respekt ne heshtje, duke menduar per nofullen
dhe heroizmin e nofullmbajtesit, i cili rrezikoi nofullen e tij te vetme, qe
ne te kemi mundesi ta shikojme krenare dikur pas kaq qindra vjetesh ne
muzeum si proven me te mire te nofullave te forta, tek ferkojme ne heshtje
me dore nofullat tona me doren e vendosur mbi mjeker dhe me gishtin tregues
ne njeren ane dhe ata te tjeret ne anen tjeter, me nje interval prej gjysem
sekondi, pa harruar ne kete rast te shtrengojme edhe nofullat tona gjithe
urrejtje per armikun. (Bile kush te doje edhe mund ta provoje kete gje
pikerisht ne kete moment qe eshte duke lexuar, dhe te pakten mund mund te
krijoje edhe nje pershtypje aktuale nese eshte i rruar apo jo; por kjo eshte
teme tjeter).

2. Tre djelmoshat tane fillojne nje diskutim teper te zjarrte te nje
tematike te larmishme, i cili lekundet diku midis stomatollogjikes klasike
dhe eksperiencat antropofage bashkekohore ballkanike, duke i dhene nofulles
ne fjale, pervec pozicionit te poshtem te falur nga Zoti, si dhe atij
kombetar dhene nga Akademia e Shkencave edhe ate antropollogjik te
pretenduar nga fakti se kjo nofull ka pertypur fara luledielli perpara 1400
vjetesh. Diskutim ky po aq i rendesishem sa edhe i frytshem per shkenceat
bashkekohore, i cili meriton respektin e madh te secilit prej nesh, per te
mundur per ta harrur si skene ne 5 minutat e ardhshme sepse si situate eshte
teper e merzitshme.

3. Gjithe skenen e merr dhe e vendos ne dy filma, bile me fal ne tre filma,

3a
Ne ta parin behet fjale ne filmin klasik, ku dre djelmoshat tane bejne ose
sikur i perkulen gjithe respekt nofulles ne fjale, ose bejne sikur marrin
vesh dicka nga nofullat, por ne fakt nuk duan gje tjeter, vetem se ta
vjedhin ate dhe ketu perseri filmi ndahet ne

3aa
djelmoshat ne fjale jane spiune te Serbise e te Gerqise dhe duan tja vjedhin
nofullen per te shkaterruar traditen e lashte kombetare shqiptare, dhe
fillojne dhe nxjerrin nga takat e kepuceve disa pajisje shume te
sofistikuara, per neutralizimin e rrezes se drites se kuqe qe impiantit
ruajtes se alarmit, nderkohe qe njeri me shume kujdes i vendos nje garze me
ate lengun gjumevenes, qe funksionon gjithnje aq mire dhe shpejt ne disa
filma te tjere te mesit te viteve '60, cuditerisht pa vepruar asnjehere tek
ai i cili e perdor, me perjashtim te rasteve, kur ai mbi te cilin duan t'ja
perdorin eshte shume i shkathet dhe ja rremben nga dora atij i cili do ta
perdore, per tja vendosur ne hunde pikerisht ketij vete, pra gjithnje ajo
tesha i vihet menjehere ne hunde asaj gjyshes qe rruan tek dere, e cila
perseri ka dy mundesi, ose ta zere gjumi menjehere, ose ata kane patur
fatkeqesine dhe kane kapur atje Marika Pendavinjin, e cila ne mision te
posatshem ngrihet dhe i ben per ibret me nje nje karate te papare te tre
armiqte e kombit, dhe ketu filmi merr fund.

3ab
djelmoshat jane disa keqberes ordinere, te cilen nofullen e vjedhur duan
t'ja shesin nje mbledhesi antiquitetesh, dhe me paret e fituara duan
thjeshte te shkojne ne Greqi, ku ta kalojne gjithe diten poligamisht, duke
qendruar ulur mbi disa kolltuqe me ajer dhe mundesiht edhe me nje palme
plastike siper mbi siperfaqen e ujit te nje pishine bojeqielli, tek pijne
disa kokteile me te gjitha ngjyrat e ylberit, dhe mbajne veshur disa kemisha
me lule dielli ne formatin 1 : 1, ndersa degjojne ne sfond nje kenge te
jargavitur te Harris Alexiu-ut. Film koti fare.

3b
Filmi eshte krejt nje tjeter dhe pikerisht ai qe trajton problemet sociale
ne nje shkolle te mesme te Tiranes, me gjithe tensionet e kushtezuara nga
nje adoleshence e vrullshme ne rradhet e nxenesve te saj, nderkohe qe te tre
djelmoshat tane kane nje mije e nje probleme te tjera ne diten e tyre te
perditshme, nder te tjera edhe ato te percaktuara nga pjekuria seksuale e
ardhur pa pritur. Edhe ketu filmi mund te vijoje ndoshta ne dy menyra.

3ba
Djelmoshat tek shikojne here nofullen ne fjale dhe here nofullen e tyre, tek
gjenden vetem ne ate salle te erret, me nje ndricim gjithsesi te determinuar
edhe nga disa rrethana te nje erotizmi te lenduar apo kufizuar (ate te
teknikut), tek degjojne murmuritjet e trikothureses ne sfond, dhe tek
gjenerojne mendimin e tyre ne funksion te kapricove te rrezes se drites se
kuqe e cila harbohet gjithnje e me teper tek thyehet me kokefortesi nga
paretet e qelqta te kubit, bien ne nje gjendje hipnoze te pjesshme dhe
pavetedijshem, pafjale dhe kryesisht gjestifikueshem i tradhetojne
homoseksualitetin e tyre njeri tjetrin. Ndersa ata te tre puthen me aq zjarr
rrotull nofulles tone historike, brenda kubit materializohet rreth nofulles
ne formen e nje hologrami koka e ilirit tone te lashte, larmia e shprehjeve
qe mund t'i jepen fytyres te se ciles, tek vezhgon tre gjimnazistat tane,
eshte e pakufi.

3bb
Tre djelmoshat nuk jane fare homoseksuale, nuk jane fare depresive dhe aspak
te zbehte dhe aq intelektuale ne fytyre si tre te paret, por perkundrazi
jane shume aktive, kokoroce, adoleshete normale, te cilet gjate gjithe kohes
jane ne levizje dhe preokupimi i vetem qe kane ata ne kete moment (si edhe
ne cdo moment tjeter te dites se tyre) eshte zhvillimi i organeve te tyre
gjenitale, nderkohe dhoma e erret, me ndricimin (qe e kishim te pershkruar
nje here) i nxit ata te tre, te mos hezitojne as edhe ketu te fillojne te
krahasojne disa gjera me njeri -.tjetrin, bile edhe te fillojne edhe te
debatojne per hollesirat e vezhguara prej tyre, derisa dikur Marika
Pendavinji ne sfond humbet durimin, dhe duke zhvendosur nofullen e vet te
poshtme ne menyre te tille, qe ti jape gojes se vet formen e nje megafoni
perseri ne shkallen 1 : 1 (ketu sekuencet filmike do te duhen te perpunohen
detyrimisht grafikisht ne PC) ju kujton djelmoshave tane, se ata disa gjera
me mire do te benin tua tregonin mamave te tyre.

3c
Filmi e ka titullin "Nofulla" apo "Nofulla qe dinte te fliste" apo "Nofulla
qe nuk donte te fliste", apo "Nofulla e gladiatorit" megjithese une do te
kisha preferuar me mire "Nofulla e Qendreses" dhe nuk eshte gje tjeter,
vetem se nje thriller historik me pak horror, apo edhe thjeshte nje horror i
cilesise se trete. Pra tre djelmoshat kane lindur ne dite te tilla,
kombinimi i te cilave me njera tjetren, duke hequr, zbritur, shumezuar,
pjestuar te gjithe shifrat e nje certifikate lindjeje, perfshi eshe numrin e
amzes japin numrin 666. Pra sapo ata te tre gjenden rreth kubit te nofulles,
ne sallen perkarshi ndizet nje flake, e cila me shtellunga te
jashtezakonshme te kuqerremta harliset e terbuar por nuk hyn ne sallen tone,
dhe Marika Pendavinji ne pragun e deres, gjithnje aq paqesore dhe e embel me
vizitoret, fillon dhe flet me tre djemte me nje ze te trazhe dhe te ngjirur
te dale nga ferri, nderkohe qe ne fytyre fillojne dhe i plasin disa damre te
holle, prej nga ku pervece i rrjedh nje gjak jeshil i dalin edhe disa
krijesa qe levizin dhe ju tregon djemve, se prej tash e tutje te gjithe jemi
skllever te Satanit, ashtu sic edhe ka qene ajo ne 2000 vjetet e fundit.
Kubi i qelqit hapet dhe nofulla ne fjale zhduket per nje moment pas nje
shtellunge tymi, per te fluturuar me nje fishkellime brenda pancirit te nje
kaloresi, te vendosur diku ne nje cep te salles, te cilin deri ne kete
moment askush nuk e kishte vene re, i cili fillon te levize, nderkohe qe
masa e hekurt shkrihet, per t'u shendruar ne nje mase muskuloze ngjyre
metali. OK, filmi vazhdon si gjithnje, tre nxenesit e gjimnazit Sami
Frasheri jane shume te mire ne matematike dhe zhvillojne nje formule, per te
deaktivizuar nofullen, duke marre kontakt per kete me heret me perfaqesuesit
e tre komuniteteve fetare (per hir edhe te unitetit kombetar) dhe dikur
eshte nje vajze (te cilen e duan te tre bashke, dhe qe ne nje pjese te
filmit e rremben Satani) ajo e cila i fut ne nje dite te caktuar, ne nje ore
te caktuar, kur dielli shkelqen ne kete dhe ate grade nje grusht ne nofullen
e poshtme satanit, dhe gjithcka shendrohet ne formen e vet dhe te gjithe
gjejne paqen e vet dhe filmi merr fund, nderkohe qe tre djelmoshat tane
zgjohen nga gjithe kjo zgjender nje paradite korriku tek Breshka dhe
natyrisht nuk ju kujtohet asgje, nderkohe qe ne veranden shiteshin
akulloret, lepin nje akullore shume te kuqe, roja e muzeumit tone perseri me
fytyrte njerezore, e cila buzeqesh hidhur nen buze, tek veshtron djelmoshat
tane, ndersa eshte duke thurur planin tjeter, se si t'i bjere perseri te tre
se bashku rrotull nofulles tashme shume te perfolur, qe kesaj here gjendet
thelle, thelle, thelle ne fund te detit te erret ne brigjet e Dyrrahut te
lashte, qe eshte edhe perspektiva e fundit e filmit.

Pa dyshim gjithcka e thene dhe e shkruar eshte asgje, kot, pa asnje
informacion, pa asnje vlere, e gjithe historia mund te mbyllet pa e hapur
mire ende duke thene, ne Muzeumin Kombetar nuk ka nje kub qelqi me nofullen
e ilirit te pare qe ka ka kafshuar serbin e pare, apo qe ky i pari nuk
kishte me dhembe ne goje dhe nuk e bente dot kete pune, apo edhe nese e beri
kete gje, ai meriton thjeshte respektin tone te thelle, apo ku e di une se
cfare tjeter. Pra gjithcka eshte ceshtje perspektive, nderkohe qe te gjithe
gjendemi ne nje dhome bosh, vetem te suvatuar, gri. Se cfare bejme me muret
eshte puna e secilit. Njeri i lyen me gelqere te bardhe nje tjeter nuk i
lyen fare, nje tjeter i pikturon ato perfshi edhe tavanin me nje lendine me
lule-dele, te gjitha ne shallen 1 : 1, duke u marre personalisht me secilen
prej tyre vec e vec dhe mbase duke i treguar seciles edhe nje histori shume
personale, pa e perseritur veten asnje here. Si te thuash, ceshtje shijesh,
kohe, kenaqesisht, hobby, e njemije arsye te tjera, te cilat une nuk besoj
se mund te reduktohen dot vetem ne nje mani per te egzibicionuar, nderkohe
qe as une vete nuk kam asnje spiegim tjeter, pse disa gjera jane keshtu.


Diten e mire



GH






From dinhaku at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  7 07:50:10 2000
From: dinhaku at yahoo.com (din haku)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 04:50:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] keqkuptime
Message-ID: <20001207125010.77489.qmail@web10801.mail.yahoo.com>

Shume zhurme u be keto ditet e fundit dhe uroj qe mos
te perseriten me.
Per vete faktin se kjo grindje nuk i sherben askujt as
muslimaneve as kristianeve dhe askujt tjeter ne liste.
Keto grindje pervec urrejtjes dhe sharjeve nuk nxisin
gje tjeter.
Ndoshta ne e kemi tepruar ndonjehere dhe te na falni
por kjo fryme duhet te ekzistoje nga te gjtha palet.
Meqe jemi shqiptare mire do te ishte qe te merremi me
problemet tona dhe nese nuk merremi dot as me
problemet tona kush eshte shkrimtar le te na sjelle
ndonje veper te tij(kjo eshte edhe per gjinine
femerore) dhe kush ka ndonje fakt interesant shkencor
te na e sjelle.
Kuptohet se gustot,besimet dhe nevelet tona
intelektuale jane te ndryshme duke shtuar ketu edhe
moshen e vendin ku gjendemi tani sepse shume pjestare
te klubit gjenden jashte shqiperise,kosoves e
maqedonise.
Nje emision interesant qe po shihja tek discovery
channel ishte se si do te ishte jeta ne toke pa hene.
Jepnin mendime se dita do te nderrohej cdo 7 ore
orbita e tokes do te ndryshonet dhe toka do te
mbulohej nga ujerat pervec copave te tokes aty ketu.
Edhe ai mendimi me falni nuk e mbaj mend se ksuh qe te
shkruajme nje histori qe s`merret vesh ku eshte
mbarimi dhe ku eshte fillimi me duket e mire vetem pa
fjale te ndyra e pa ofendime.
Uroj qe te shihet nje fryme mirekuptimi dhe ndryshimi
ne alb-klub.
me respekt 
d h 




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From ardi5 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  7 08:10:06 2000
From: ardi5 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?ardian=20kanina?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 05:10:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Hipokrizia e llumit te majte !!!!
Message-ID: <20001207131006.5872.qmail@web702.mail.yahoo.com>

Shohe disa emra/gazeta qe perfaqesojne anticivilizimin
Shqiptar si Frrok Cupi,Koha Jone,Fatos Lubonja,Skender
Gjinushi,Neritan Ceka etj ,dje te eger sot paraqiten
si te moderuar.Kjo gazeta "Koha Jone" paraqitet edhe
si ruajtese  e stabilitetit ne Shqiperi.Populli nuk
harron helmin qe hodhi Koha Jone dhe larot e majte ne
1997 per shkaterrimin e Shqiperise.Roli i ri i ketij
llumi ne te djathteve dhe Shqiptareve te tjere na
lendon plaget qe morem prej Heleniko-Bolshevikeve ne
1997.Megjithese spektri politike i djathte kurre nuk
do te qeverise vendin duke vrare popullin si beri
llumi i majte.Te djathtet kane falur krimet qe beren
keta bastarde per hir te Shqiperise ashtu si te
djathtet falen krimet komuniste 50 vjecare.

Ndryshimi midis llumit te majte dhe te djathteve plus
(ekstremit te djathte) eshte i madh.Llumi i majte per
te marre pushtetin perdor cdo mjete sepse ketij
grupacioni politiko-mafjoze nuk i intereson Shqiperia
por interesat mafjoze te tyre.Fatkeqesisht n.q.s. 1997
do te kishte ndodhur ne 1977 pra kur ne bote komunizmi
ekzistonte  llumin e majte CIA apo agjentura te tjera
perendimore do ta kishin asgjesuar ashtu si bene ne
Kili ,Argjentine, ne Spanje me komunistet dhe
gjetke.Llumi i majte perfitoj ne vitet 90 prej
situates se re politike boterore sepse Komunizmi
perendoj dhe nuk permbente me rrezike per
Euro-Amerikanet.

Me sa kuptoj Euro-Amerikanet edhe pse kohet e fundit
kjo aleance po prishet sepse ne politike nuk ka
aleance te perjetshme sot kane si qellim jo me luften
kunder komunizmit por luften kunder shteteve
nacionale.Teoria e globalizimit nuk mund te shitet kur
ekzistojne shtetet nacionale ,disa analiste shprehen
qe globalizimi eshte kolonializem ekonomike etj
prandaj shkrirja e shteteve nacionale eshte primare
sot per ata qe dominojne boten dhe ekonomikisht duan
ta sundojne globin.Kur mora veshe qe Fatos Nano,Fatos
Lubonja , fosil ky  pa ndonje  vlere shkencore i
periudhes se komunizmit u ftuan ne Washington ne
shtepine e bardhe u habita .Gjerat kane ndryshuar dhe
armiqte ideologjike te djeshem me  Euro-Amerikanet sot
jane bere miq.

E habitshme ishte qe Euro-Amerikanet ndihmuan
bolsheviket ne 1997 ne djegjen e Shqiperise nje
politike e tille kontinuiteti ndaj neo-bolshevikeve
vazhdon edhe sot.Disa te persekutuar politike te
periudhes se komunizmit jane shokuar prej kesaj ndihme
sepse ata romantizonin perendimoret ne lufte kunder
komunizmit.Inovacioni nuk njihet vetem ne teknologji
por edhe ne politike prandaj hapat e fundit
Euro-Amerikane edhe justifikohen ne kete bote.Disa
personazhe te 'llumit te majte ' shprehen qe Berisha
&Co nuk e merre dot pushtetin me force.Gabohen sepse
Berisha &Co e merr pushtetin me force brenda 24 oreve
po te perdore format qe perdori 'llumi i majte' ne
1997.

Personalisht jam kunder tentativave te tilla te
marrjes se pushtetit  qe me kujtojne egersine e llumit
te majte ,me kujtohen primitivet e Shqiperise si Fatos
Lubonja dhe Frroke Cupi qe propaganduan urrejtjen ne
Shqiperi ne 1997 ata beren thirrje per lufte ne Vlore
dhe populli i njehe keta te anticivilizuar qe sot na
hiqen si te moderuar.'Llumi i majte' eshte shume
dinake mund ta krahasosh me nje kameleon dhe vete
koleget e tyre ne Evropen Lindore u habiten qe qysh
'llumi i majte ' e rimorri kaq shpejt pushtetin ne
Shqiperi.Aleanca e 'llumit te majte' me Greket dihet
dhe kjo aleance i ka shkaktuar popullit shume
fatkeqesira.

Plaget qe 'llumi i majte 'i ka shkaktuar Shqiperise
jane shume te medha .Personalisht nuk doja ti
rikthehesha egersise se ketij grupacioni politike ne
1997 por hipokrizia e tyre me shkaktoj nje fare
alergjie sidomos kur ky llum ka nja tre jave qe po na
lodhe ne shtyp dhe media ku po paraqitet si i
moderuar, i civilizuar,patriotik etj.

Sot eshte e rendesishme qe te realizohet nje kompromis
midis te majteve te vertete dhe te djathtes
Shqiptare.Kompromiste jane te veshtira por jo te
parealizueshme .Per Shqiperine gjetja e nje kompromisi
politike shte jetike sepse te huajt nuk na kane
ndihmuar kurre ata  vetem percarje duan qe ta sundojne
Shqiperine shume lehte.Sundimi i huaj prej vitit 1990
kur Shqiperia u be protektorat i bastardeve te huaj i
ka shkaktuar vendit shume vuajtje.

Tek kjo gazeta Rilindja demokratike lexova shkrimet e
Washingtonpostit dhe CNN-it rreth zgjedhjeve gjoja
jodemokratike ne Shqiperi.Ishte per te ardhur keq qe
nje gazete Shqiptare i kushton rendesi shkrimeve te
disa gazetave pa njohuri rreth Shqiperise dhe shpesh
me qellime keqdashese.Po shoh qe percarja ne Shqiperi
frymezohet edhe nga jashte por kjo eshte dicka e
njohur ne bote .Ne Shqiptaret nuk duhet te presim fare
ndihme nga jashte sepse jemi ne gjendje vete te
zhvillojme vendin por n,q,s arrihet kompromisi
politike.Kompromisi politike eshte shume i mundshem
por duhet punuar per ta realizuar ate.

Perfundimisht irritimi qe  shkaktoj 'llumi i majte ' i
cili po hiqet sot  si i moderuar eshte i madh.Shpresoj
qe "opozita e djathte" mos te biere ne gracken e
'llumit te majte' pra ta marre pushtetin me forma
Bolshevike si beri llumi i majte ne 1997.Nje menyre e
tille marrje pushteti eshte jo-Shqiptare dhe
antiShqiptare.

me nderime ardi......

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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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From Dritan68 at aol.com  Thu Dec  7 09:33:20 2000
From: Dritan68 at aol.com (Dritan68 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:33:20 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Letra e nje emigranti nga USA
Message-ID: <a7.9bb3625.2760f9b0@aol.com>

ne Shqiperi ndiqem edhe sot 
 penalisht per gjoja grushtin e shtetit dhe keto per fatin tim 
 te mire apo te keq me sollen ne Amerike.)>>.
Me duket se letershkruesi duhet ta korrigjoje shprehjen, ajo nuk ishte 'gjoja grusht shteti' por grusht shteti i vertete .Ne rast se  sulmi me arme zjarri i institucioneve shtetrore quhet demonstrim paqesor atehere cfare quani luft??


From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  7 10:28:44 2000
From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 15:28:44 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Letra e nje emigranti nga USA
Message-ID: <F23021w8g7BsvBosGkw000070d8@hotmail.com>

...grushti i shtetit ishte i tille por ndoshta ai s'ka te beje fare me ato 
njerez qe qelluan me arme instuticionet shqiptare....

Ato qe thote ai qendrojne te gjitha...

shendet.

>From: Dritan68 at aol.com
>Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>To: <alb-club at alb-net.com>
>Subject: Re: [Alb-club] Letra e nje emigranti nga USA
>Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:33:20 EST
>
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>ne Shqiperi ndiqem edhe sot
>  penalisht per gjoja grushtin e shtetit dhe keto per fatin tim
>  te mire apo te keq me sollen ne Amerike.)>>.
>Me duket se letershkruesi duhet ta korrigjoje shprehjen, ajo nuk ishte 
>'gjoja grusht shteti' por grusht shteti i vertete .Ne rast se  sulmi me 
>arme zjarri i institucioneve shtetrore quhet demonstrim paqesor atehere 
>cfare quani luft??
>***Alb-Club***
>____________________________________________________
>Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
>http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club

_____________________________________________________________________________________
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From kbejko at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  7 12:25:53 2000
From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:25:53 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Rregjistrimi i fese ne Shqiperi
Message-ID: <LC2-LFD133t3pFpC9f90000009b@hotmail.com>

Minoritari Melo do te fusi shqiperine ne nje kaos
fetar qe te perfitoje me teper vota nga Ortodokset Shqiptare.


PS: Feja dhe kombesia nuk do te regjistrohen

Socialistet kane hedhur poshte dje kerkesen e kryetarit te partise se te 
drejtave te njeriut, Vasil Melo per perfshirjen e kombesise dhe te fese ne 
listat e votuesve perkrah emrit te tyre. Sipas tyre realizimi ne praktike i 
nje ideje te tille mund te ndikoje ne percarjen e shqiptareve. Sekretari 
organizativ i PS-se, Petro Koci tha dje se pranimi i propozimit te Melos do 
te institucionalizonte nje perkatesi fetare apo nacionale ne votuesit 
shqiptar dhe kjo, ndryshe nga sa dukej, si qartesuese apo siguruese per 
voten e secilit, ne thelb mund te materializonte dhe te kishte pasoja 
percarese ne elektorat. "Feja e shqiptarit eshte shqiptaria, keshtu qe besoj 
se mjafton fakti qe te gjithe te regjistruarit jane shqiptare" tha Koci. 
Sipas tij, sanksionimi kushtetutes i respektimit te minoriteteve dhe feve, 
nuk ka arsye te mjaftueshme sipas po se njejtes Kushtetute per te bere 
percaktimin e fese dhe te kombesise ne listat e votuesve perkrah emrit te 
votuesit. Po ashtu, sipas Kocit nuk eksizton asnje arsye tjeter morale qe te 
perkthehet ne percaktimin nacional e fetar te votuesit ne listat e 
zgjedhjeve. Koci shikon probleme, jo te thjeshta qe mund te lindin mbas 
marrjes se nje iniciative te tille nga PBDNJ-shi. Duke kujtuar ngjarjen e 
Himares ku u shtrua ceshtja e ekzistences se minoritareve atje ai tha: 
"Eshte e panevojshme, nuk mendoj se PBDNJ duhet t'i vihet nje iniciative te 
tille qe mund te sillte probleme jo te thjeshta. Kam parasysh edhe debatet e 
fundit lidhur me perfaqesimin nacional te himarioteve".


Per sekretaren e marredhenieve me jashte ne Partine Socialiste, Arta Dade, 
zgjedhjet ne vendin tone jane per te gjithe shtetasit shqiptare dhe jo per 
te percaktuar nese do te qeverisin persona me fe te ndryshme apo me kombesi 
te ndryshme per te tjere te percaktuar perseri nga feja apo kombesia. 
Hollesi te tilla, sipas Dades nuk jane te nevojshme. Dihet shume mire, sipas 
saj se nje pjese e mire e shqiptareve qe kane shkuar ne Greqi, jane detyruar 
per arsye ekonomike dhe per te mos qene te diskriminuar te ndryshojne, jo 
vetem fene, por edhe nacionalitetin e tyre. Ajo kujton se njohja e 
minoriteteve dhe feve ne Kushtetute fetare eshte respektim i tyre. "Une nuk 
e shikoj aspak te nevojshme dhe per mendimin tim ne kemi bere shume per 
njohjen dhe respektimin e minoriteteve dhe te feve, ku ne Kushtetuten tone 
eshte futur neni mbi kete qendrim. Zgjedhjet politike nuk jane zgjedhje per 
te percaktuar nese do te qeverisin persona te njeres fe apo te tjetres, apo 
te njeres kombesi apo te tjetres, per njeren fe apo per nje kombesi, ato 
jane zgjedhje qe behen per shtetasit shqiptare", tha Dade.


M.Topalli

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From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  7 13:11:19 2000
From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 18:11:19 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Hipokrizia e llumit te majte !!!!
Message-ID: <F239ljq65Rn8P5o7P6u0000728d@hotmail.com>

Llumi i majte nga llumi i djathte nuk ndryshon pothuajse fare.

Ne te dyja partite ka elemente shume pozitiv, por mjer shqiptaret qe jemi 
ndare nga llumi i llumit qe rri ne krye, Bajraktarisha e Nanollatosi.

shendet.


>From: ardian kanina <ardi5 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>To: alb-club at alb-net.com
>Subject: [Alb-club] Hipokrizia e llumit te majte !!!!
>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 05:10:06 -0800 (PST)
>
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
>
>
>
>
>Shohe disa emra/gazeta qe perfaqesojne anticivilizimin
>Shqiptar si Frrok Cupi,Koha Jone,Fatos Lubonja,Skender
>Gjinushi,Neritan Ceka etj ,dje te eger sot paraqiten
>si te moderuar.Kjo gazeta "Koha Jone" paraqitet edhe
>si ruajtese  e stabilitetit ne Shqiperi.Populli nuk
>harron helmin qe hodhi Koha Jone dhe larot e majte ne
>1997 per shkaterrimin e Shqiperise.Roli i ri i ketij
>llumi ne te djathteve dhe Shqiptareve te tjere na
>lendon plaget qe morem prej Heleniko-Bolshevikeve ne
>1997.Megjithese spektri politike i djathte kurre nuk
>do te qeverise vendin duke vrare popullin si beri
>llumi i majte.Te djathtet kane falur krimet qe beren
>keta bastarde per hir te Shqiperise ashtu si te
>djathtet falen krimet komuniste 50 vjecare.
>
>Ndryshimi midis llumit te majte dhe te djathteve plus
>(ekstremit te djathte) eshte i madh.Llumi i majte per
>te marre pushtetin perdor cdo mjete sepse ketij
>grupacioni politiko-mafjoze nuk i intereson Shqiperia
>por interesat mafjoze te tyre.Fatkeqesisht n.q.s. 1997
>do te kishte ndodhur ne 1977 pra kur ne bote komunizmi
>ekzistonte  llumin e majte CIA apo agjentura te tjera
>perendimore do ta kishin asgjesuar ashtu si bene ne
>Kili ,Argjentine, ne Spanje me komunistet dhe
>gjetke.Llumi i majte perfitoj ne vitet 90 prej
>situates se re politike boterore sepse Komunizmi
>perendoj dhe nuk permbente me rrezike per
>Euro-Amerikanet.
>
>Me sa kuptoj Euro-Amerikanet edhe pse kohet e fundit
>kjo aleance po prishet sepse ne politike nuk ka
>aleance te perjetshme sot kane si qellim jo me luften
>kunder komunizmit por luften kunder shteteve
>nacionale.Teoria e globalizimit nuk mund te shitet kur
>ekzistojne shtetet nacionale ,disa analiste shprehen
>qe globalizimi eshte kolonializem ekonomike etj
>prandaj shkrirja e shteteve nacionale eshte primare
>sot per ata qe dominojne boten dhe ekonomikisht duan
>ta sundojne globin.Kur mora veshe qe Fatos Nano,Fatos
>Lubonja , fosil ky  pa ndonje  vlere shkencore i
>periudhes se komunizmit u ftuan ne Washington ne
>shtepine e bardhe u habita .Gjerat kane ndryshuar dhe
>armiqte ideologjike te djeshem me  Euro-Amerikanet sot
>jane bere miq.
>
>E habitshme ishte qe Euro-Amerikanet ndihmuan
>bolsheviket ne 1997 ne djegjen e Shqiperise nje
>politike e tille kontinuiteti ndaj neo-bolshevikeve
>vazhdon edhe sot.Disa te persekutuar politike te
>periudhes se komunizmit jane shokuar prej kesaj ndihme
>sepse ata romantizonin perendimoret ne lufte kunder
>komunizmit.Inovacioni nuk njihet vetem ne teknologji
>por edhe ne politike prandaj hapat e fundit
>Euro-Amerikane edhe justifikohen ne kete bote.Disa
>personazhe te 'llumit te majte ' shprehen qe Berisha
>&Co nuk e merre dot pushtetin me force.Gabohen sepse
>Berisha &Co e merr pushtetin me force brenda 24 oreve
>po te perdore format qe perdori 'llumi i majte' ne
>1997.
>
>Personalisht jam kunder tentativave te tilla te
>marrjes se pushtetit  qe me kujtojne egersine e llumit
>te majte ,me kujtohen primitivet e Shqiperise si Fatos
>Lubonja dhe Frroke Cupi qe propaganduan urrejtjen ne
>Shqiperi ne 1997 ata beren thirrje per lufte ne Vlore
>dhe populli i njehe keta te anticivilizuar qe sot na
>hiqen si te moderuar.'Llumi i majte' eshte shume
>dinake mund ta krahasosh me nje kameleon dhe vete
>koleget e tyre ne Evropen Lindore u habiten qe qysh
>'llumi i majte ' e rimorri kaq shpejt pushtetin ne
>Shqiperi.Aleanca e 'llumit te majte' me Greket dihet
>dhe kjo aleance i ka shkaktuar popullit shume
>fatkeqesira.
>
>Plaget qe 'llumi i majte 'i ka shkaktuar Shqiperise
>jane shume te medha .Personalisht nuk doja ti
>rikthehesha egersise se ketij grupacioni politike ne
>1997 por hipokrizia e tyre me shkaktoj nje fare
>alergjie sidomos kur ky llum ka nja tre jave qe po na
>lodhe ne shtyp dhe media ku po paraqitet si i
>moderuar, i civilizuar,patriotik etj.
>
>Sot eshte e rendesishme qe te realizohet nje kompromis
>midis te majteve te vertete dhe te djathtes
>Shqiptare.Kompromiste jane te veshtira por jo te
>parealizueshme .Per Shqiperine gjetja e nje kompromisi
>politike shte jetike sepse te huajt nuk na kane
>ndihmuar kurre ata  vetem percarje duan qe ta sundojne
>Shqiperine shume lehte.Sundimi i huaj prej vitit 1990
>kur Shqiperia u be protektorat i bastardeve te huaj i
>ka shkaktuar vendit shume vuajtje.
>
>Tek kjo gazeta Rilindja demokratike lexova shkrimet e
>Washingtonpostit dhe CNN-it rreth zgjedhjeve gjoja
>jodemokratike ne Shqiperi.Ishte per te ardhur keq qe
>nje gazete Shqiptare i kushton rendesi shkrimeve te
>disa gazetave pa njohuri rreth Shqiperise dhe shpesh
>me qellime keqdashese.Po shoh qe percarja ne Shqiperi
>frymezohet edhe nga jashte por kjo eshte dicka e
>njohur ne bote .Ne Shqiptaret nuk duhet te presim fare
>ndihme nga jashte sepse jemi ne gjendje vete te
>zhvillojme vendin por n,q,s arrihet kompromisi
>politike.Kompromisi politike eshte shume i mundshem
>por duhet punuar per ta realizuar ate.
>
>Perfundimisht irritimi qe  shkaktoj 'llumi i majte ' i
>cili po hiqet sot  si i moderuar eshte i madh.Shpresoj
>qe "opozita e djathte" mos te biere ne gracken e
>'llumit te majte' pra ta marre pushtetin me forma
>Bolshevike si beri llumi i majte ne 1997.Nje menyre e
>tille marrje pushteti eshte jo-Shqiptare dhe
>antiShqiptare.
>
>me nderime ardi......
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
>http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>***Alb-Club***
>____________________________________________________
>Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
>http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club

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From AlbClubNY at aol.com  Thu Dec  7 13:36:20 2000
From: AlbClubNY at aol.com (AlbClubNY at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:36:20 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub story project
Message-ID: <85.3e7802d.276132a4@aol.com>

I nderuar Ylli dhe te nderuar anetare,

Ideja e asaj historise qe ne mund te shkruajme te gjithe bashke eshte teper 
interesante, por qe dicka e tille te realizohet dhe ne moderatoret te mos 
kemi probleme (psh. 5 vete te dergojne vazhdimin e historise ne te njejten 
pike dhe ne te na duhet te mos aprovojme kater prej tyre) do te propozonim 
disa "rregulla loje" per ata qe deshirojne te marrin pjese:

1. Historia e filluar nga Ylli Demneri i pasohet nje anetari tjeter te 
listes, te caktuar nga Ylli vete. Ky anetar do te ishte e mira te jete dikush 
qe ka shkruar me pare, dhe pasi ai ka vazhduar historine aty ku e la Ylli, e 
pason tek nje anetar tjeter duke ndjekur te njejtin kriter.

2. Ne se historia e pasuar nuk vazhdon nga personi te cilit i eshte pasuar 
brenda 24oreve, ai humbet rradhen dhe i fundit qe shkroi e pason diku tjeter.

3. E mira do te ishte qe te pasohet ne anetare te ndryshem, (te pakten 20 te 
paret te ishin te ndryshem) dhe jo te kthehet ne ping-pong midis dy veteve.

4. Ata qe do te shkruajne te kene parasysh qe te shkruajne jo me shume se nje 
paragraf me nje minimum prej 5 rreshtash dhe nje maksimum prej 10 rreshtash 
per shembull.

5. Perndryshe, Ylli ka te drejte kur thote se persa i perket asaj qe shkruhet 
interesantja qendron vetem ne perzierjen e stileve te ndryshme dhe nuk ka 
asnje kufizim persa i perket karakterit, natyres se permbajtjes, 
spiralizimeve te intriges, stilit te zgjedhur, futjes se personazheve te reja 
etj.

6. Fundi i historise do duhet te shkruhet perpara dates 31 dhjetor, dhe ne do 
te postojme versionin perfundimtar, i cili po te jete shume interesant, ka 
shume mundesi qe t'ju propozojme te gjitheve atyre qe duan nga nje kopje te 
lidhur mire dhe me ilustrime grafike apo karikatura (qe shpresojme t'i marri 
persiper ndonje grapich designer ketu ne liste) qe te dergojne nga $5 ne 
llogarine e bankes se AlbClubit (OK, kjo ishte shaka, po duhet pranuar qe ne 
vdesim per komercializim te produkteve letrare dhe se me sa duket eshte i 
vetmi produkt qe potencialisht kemi ne dore he per he) 

Ylli, te lutemi te ridergosh ato dy rreshtat fillestare dhe ta pasosh diku, 
po te jesh dakord dhe ti me ne se kjo do te ishte menyre me sistematike dhe 
efektive.

Te fala,
AlbClub Moderation Team


From ydemneri at club-internet.fr  Thu Dec  7 16:17:38 2000
From: ydemneri at club-internet.fr (demneri)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 22:17:38 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub story project
Message-ID: <B655BD02.F0A%ydemneri@club-internet.fr>

Miq,
Jam shume dakort me propozimet tuaja. Ato probleme qe keni hasur ju i
mendova dhe une, por ishte ca vone, propozimin e kisha derguar tashme.
Pastaj mendova se do te ishte ndoshta interesante po te kishte disa variante
te nisura nga e njejta pike, dhe ne fund  te shkruanim versionin
perfundimtar duke zgjedhur variantet me interesante. Ashtu sic mund te
veprohet per shkrimin e nje skenari per film. Kur pashe qe URAN37 reagoje, u
gezova. Po prisja qe dhe te tjeret te reagonin. Por asnje lajm nga fronti i
perendimit. Vendosa qe ta vazhdoja me URAN37.Tani qe ndeza ordinatorin u
ndesha me mesazhin tuaj. Ajo qe me shqeteson pak eshte se duke percaktuar
pasuesin e historine do te mund te leme jasht loje te tjere qe do te donin
te marrinin pjese. Ai mendimi juaj per ne fund te vitit me duket mjaft
interesant. Duke respektuar propozimin tuaj po ju dergoj fillimin e
historise te cilen desheroj qe ta vazhdoje ERA.
Pershendetje
Ylli


Kur hapa deren e guzhines nuk doja qe nena ta kuptonte qe kisha pire. Ajo i
kishte zet ato qe pinin. Sapo isha ndare nga 



From ETIRANA at aol.com  Thu Dec  7 21:12:53 2000
From: ETIRANA at aol.com (ETIRANA at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:12:53 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] 10 Vjetori i Levizjes Studentore
Message-ID: <b8.ecc2e02.27619da5@aol.com>

                                                   10 VJETORI I LEVIZJES 
STUDENTORE


    Te dashur bashkatdhetare,

Me rastin e 10 vjetorit te fillimit te Levizjes Studentore te Dhjetorit 1990, 
organizohet nje mbremje perkujtimore. Ftohen te marrin pjese qe te gjithe ata 
qe jane te interesuar ne perkujtimin e kesaj ngjarje te shenuar.  Mbremja do 
te mbahet ne Manhattan me date 9 Dhjetor 2000, ne ora 18.00 ne kete adrese: 
126 - 11 Avenue,
 2-nd Floor, midis rrugeve 20 dhe 21.


From xhuliana at usa.net  Thu Dec  7 22:42:08 2000
From: xhuliana at usa.net (Xh.A.)
Date: 7 Dec 00 22:42:08 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] What is (or should be) a liberal education
Message-ID: <20001208034208.27915.qmail@nw177.netaddress.usa.net>

*I thought this might be of interest to some of you--students as well as
parents. Yes, Parents.* :o)
-----------------------------
FALL 2000 CONVOCATION ADDRESS
August 24, 2000  

Members of the entering Freshman class, returning students, faculty, staff,
and guests, welcome to St John's College.

Those of you who are joining us on our educational venture here for the first
time must already know that we are a great books school, that all our classes
are discussion classes, and that those of us who teach here are called tutors
rather than professors because our business is to guide discussions and
thereby learn with you rather than to lecture at you. These traditions and
others distinctive of St. John's, and of a small number of schools that have
taken us as a model, are an inheritance that goes back to the founding of the
new program of instruction in 1937 on our sister campus in Annapolis. And that
founding itself looked much further back into the intellectual history of the
West in order to effect a renaissance of sorts in American higher education.
The founders of our program recognized that liberal education was an ideal
that had ceased being pursued with any noticeable vigor. The chief cause of
this state of affairs, so they thought, was the increased emphasis on
specialization and the consequent emergence of the elective system that had
become characteristic of the vast majority of institutions of higher education
in the modem world. Even institutions that remained ostensibly dedicated to
liberal education had taken on something of the character of a trade school.
After one had gotten a general education, of sorts, in high school, one went
off to College to master a particular subject, one's major, while at the same
time becoming "well rounded" by choosing a set number of course offerings in
areas outside one's major. After having met in this fashion all the "course
requirements" one graduated, either to specialize even more single-mindedly at
the graduate level, or to get a job and, as they say, put one's degree to
work.

The founders of the new program of instruction at St. John's were concerned
that modern educators had lost sight of the ideal of a liberally educated
human being that educators at one time set their sights by. A liberally
educated human being is, among other things, a human being who is more than an
ambulatory embodiment of the reigning opinions of his time, in large measure
because he knows that there is a difference between opinion and knowledge. A
liberally educated human being knows that much of what passes for knowledge is
information acquired second hand from specialists and experts who have dazzled
others into confusing the narrowness of their field of vision with depth, into
confusing the data they have assembled and the hypotheses they have formed to
account for them with knowledge they can transmit to others if others will
only listen to and commit to memory what they have to say.

Now, although the concern that precipitated the founding of the St. John's
program was the progressive transformation of higher education into
specialized studies, the goal of the new program was not to produce what are
today called "generalists" as opposed to specialists. A mere familiarity with,
or as we sometimes say, exposure to, a wide variety of subjects is not a
liberal education. The founders of our program realized that more is involved
in liberal education than acquaintance with a lot of famous books and a lot of
interesting and influential ideas. In perusing some of what they wrote we
notice a common theme, one that we need to remind ourselves of. It is the
ideal of a kind of freedom that is uniquely achieved through knowledge, or at
least through the striving after knowledge. This theme occurs and recurs in
the various editions of our College Catalogue.

Like virtually every other institution of higher education in the country, St.
John's has its College Catalogue. But from the beginning of the new program,
we have been uneasy with this fact, inasmuch as a catalogue is primarily a
list of offerings. At St. John's we have wanted not merely to list but to
justify what is taught here, and how it is taught. What we used to call the
College Catalogue, we now more appropriately call, as you may have noticed,
the Statement of the St. John's Program.

In the first edition of this publication, written in 1937, we find the
following sentence.

[I]t is only by practicing the liberal arts, by understanding and knowing,
that the human animal becomes a free man. (Catalogue of St. John's College
1937-1938)

And in the most recent edition, sixty two years later we hear something quite
similar.

St. John's is a community dedicated to liberal education. Liberally educated
human beings, the College believes, acquire a lifelong commitment to the
pursuit of fundamental knowledge. (Statement of the St. John's Program
1999-2000)

A historian of the College, and a tutor who taught in the early days of the
new program, put it this way:

What St. John's means to be engaged in is radical enquiry... [T]here is the
assumption that knowledge is good for its own sake and, if knowledge is not
attained, that the understanding and the improvement of opinion that are
obtained in the thirst and quest for knowledge are also good. (J.W. Smith The
Search for a Liberal College 1983)

The educational venture at St. John's consists in 'radical enquiry,' in
enquiry that is not content to remain at the surface of things but goes to
their roots. This kind of enquiry is liberal in that it is liberating. It
frees us from the superficiality of taking for granted what deserves to be
questioned. One of the college's earliest deans, and arguably the greatest,
wrote as follows. Liberal education

is in itself its own end. What this understanding of liberal education assumes
is that man's most proper and specific character is his desire to know. Only
in pursuing this goal is man really man and really free. (Jacob Klein "The
Idea of Liberal Education," in Lectures and Essays, pp. I65-167)

And, in another context, he wrote

However "free" the free man [i.e. the man who is politically free and not a
slave] may be he has thus still to free himself from the shackles of
conventional views which pass for the truth of things. He has to cultivate
pursuits in which the truth of things is truly made an attainable goal. These
pursuits constitute the arts of freedom, the "liberal arts." (Jacob Klein "On
Liberal Education," in Lectures and Essays, 1 965)

In light of this observation it is ironic, to say the least, that one of the
most conventional views that passes for the truth of things in our time, right
now in the first year of the new millennium, is the conventional view that
there is no truth of things, or, if there is, it is truly not an attainable
goal.

There are, to be sure, a variety of ways of conceiving what is meant by
"truth." But the core meaning of truth is reality manifesting itself as what
it is. The ancient philosophers, whom those of you who are Freshmen you will
be reading this year, seem to have thought that our knowledge of truth is the
result of our reaching out to it and grasping it. The Bible, which you will be
reading next year, teaches the reverse, namely that this knowledge is the
result of the Truth reaching out to us and grasping us. Other authors whom you
will read later in the program call into question the notion of reaching out,
which underlies these two otherwise quite different accounts of how we come to
knowledge of truth. They think that reality is so inseparable from the human
mind that the truth of it can be known only by the minds looking at itself,
i.e., by looking within. And the most radical of these thinkers invite us to
entertain the disturbing possibility that the human mind, which they see as
the locus of reality as well as truth, does not, and cannot, transcend human
history. Complicating these distinctions, and demonstrating that they are not
exhaustive, is a further distinction. On the one hand, there is the view that
truth is accessible to reason only and articulable solely, or at least
chiefly, in propositional form, as happens typically in philosophy,
mathematics, and science. On the other hand, there is the view that truth is
also disclosed, profoundly, through the wider resources of language that
poetry has at its disposal, and even in music and painting--the view that
knowledge is possible not only of poetry and the fine arts, but more
importantly, through them.

It is the ideal of truth, which is the same as the ideal of knowledge, with
all the attendant ambiguity and perplexity regarding the scope and even the
possibility of this ideal, that gives the program of instruction here at St.
John's its peculiar character. For our program is not a mere pastiche of
faculty preferences. It has developed slowly over time. To be sure new authors
and new works make their appearance in the Program yearly. But nothing remains
in the Program for very long without the consensus of the faculty, and the
faculty are themselves in large measure developed by their deepening
familiarity with the Program.

Now, there is no gainsaying the fact that the ideal of truth, and hence of
striving from mere opinion toward knowledge, is controversial, particularly so
in our egalitarian times. It implies a distinction between those who are
content to dwell within the realm of opinion merely and those who are striving
to get beyond it. If there is such thing as truth, then when two people
disagree, though they may both be wrong, they cannot both be right, at least
not simply so. And, in fact, one of the two may be closer, perhaps much
closer, to the truth than the other one is.

It is, I think, part of the greatness of St. John's College that disagreements
about fundamental questions do not divide us into friends and enemies. The
authors of the great books we read here disagree with one another. Contrary to
what you might have heard and as you will soon discover, there is no
significant claim made in the West that at least one great Western thinker has
not called into question. As students of these books, we are the beneficiaries
of their disagreements. For since we do not, and frankly cannot, think at so
high a level as they managed to, their lack of agreement with one another
requires us, in paying attention to what they have to say, not simply to
listen, but to question.

At this point I would like to quote at somewhat greater length one of the
guiding figures of the new program at St. John's whom I quoted earlier.

In raising a question we expect an answer. A question, by its very nature,
wants to be satisfied. Or, in other words, questions as such are possible?only
on the assumption that there is something which we do not know but which can
be known. And this something is expected to appear in any answer. A question
is indeed a state of mind...in which we want to know what we do not know. The
phenomenon of questioning points to the possibility, at least, of knowledge.
The answer we get is, for the most part, at, opinion. We live, for the most
part, in holding and meeting opinions. But the important thing about opinions
is precisely that they cannot avoid putting on the cloak of knowledge. The
possibility of our having opinions tests on the possibility, at least, of our
having truth. In our thoughtful moments?we try to see whether our opinions,
our answers to our questions are true or not. (Jacob Klein, "The idea of
Liberal Education, op.cit. p.161)

Because a question aims at an answer, because it points to the possibility of
knowledge, of having truth, for this reason and only for this reason, the act
of questioning is both liberating and elevating. It frees us from presumption
and at the same time it raises us up, if not all the way to the level of the
authors of the great books we read at St. John's, at least toward their
level.

And this experience of being liberated and elevated through the activity of
questioning in the company of the greatest minds we know, i.e., the authors of
the works we read, is an experience that does not occur in isolation here. In
our classes, and in our discussions outside of classes, we discover that we
can learn with and from our fellow students, even when, or maybe especially
when, we do not see eye to eye. We thereby transcend the smallness of soul
that predisposes us to think that those who disagree with us cannot be our
friends. It is part of the nobility of the enterprise we are engaged in
together here that deep and abiding friendships can be built not just in spite
of disagreements about really fundamental questions, but even on the basis of
these disagreements.

Permit me to say, now and in conclusion, that we are aware of the high hopes
that have led you to St. John's. I ask you not to cease reminding us of them
so that we can be worthy of the trust you have placed in us.

I declare the College in session at the conclusion of the Benediction.

Convocatum est!

James Carey
Acting President
 
-----------
The Dean's Statement of Educational Policy 

[cut]
The principles of our program have already been articulated by the founders of
the program, and by previous deans, eloquently, forcefully, and with as much
clarity as one could wish for. Still, for several reasons, revisiting the
principles and presuppositions of the program is timely, and might be of
particular benefit to newer members of the faculty. Among other things, the
program has undergone significant transformations since its founding. Limited
electives have been introduced in the form of preceptorials. Four years of
laboratory have been reduced to three. A graduate liberal arts program now
parallels the undergraduate program. Visual arts are a component of the
undergraduate program in Santa Fe, where a masters program in Eastern classics
has also been introduced. History is now one of the segments of the liberal
arts program in the Graduate Institute. In addition to these conspicuous
changes that have been effected by formal instructional proposals, changes of
a more subtle character have taken place. (For the most part, I confine my
observations here to the Santa Fe campus, to which my experience over the last
fifteen years has been limited.) Figures who used not to be given much
consideration at St. John's, such as Vico, Husserl, Heidegger, and Maimonides
have recently come to prominence in the curriculum and in study groups. Others
who have always held at least a token spot on the seminar reading lists, such
as Machiavelli, Dostoyevsky, and Nietzsche, are now generally recognized as
major, and formidable, presences in the program. Regarding preceptorials,
literature offerings are more popular these days than philosophy offerings,
with the exception of preceptorials on Nietzsche, much the most popular
preceptorial author in Santa Fe. There are fewer preceptorials on Plato and
Aristotle than formerly, and fewer students pick them as their first choices.
Senior essay topics, not surprisingly, reflect preceptorial preferences. This
year in Santa Fe more senior essays were written on the Bible than on any
other work or author. The runner up? Nietzsche. The occasional appearance of
an Eastern book on the preceptorial list generates immediate and substantial
interest. In spite of a recent intercampus tutor visit devoted to the place of
logic in the curriculum, most sophomore language tutors have come to devote
only a minimal amount of attention to it. Last year in Santa Fe not a single
section of sophomore language undertook a study of logic. The time previously
set aside for logic is now devoted primarily to Chaucer, occasionally Dante,
or, significantly, Nietzsche. On the whole, the Bible is read sympathetically
by a larger number of tutors and students than twenty five years ago. Not so
Thomas Aquinas, who loomed large in the early intellectual life of the
College, but is now widely held to be tedious and beside the point.

It is not difficult to discern a prevailing tendency in these developments,
along with some conspicuous exceptions. It would be not only harsh but false
as well to call this tendency "misology." What one sees is not so much a
hatred of reason as a slowly emerging suspicion that reason is not an
altogether trustworthy guide in the pursuit of truth. This suspicion is
rooted, in some cases, in an even deeper suspicion regarding truth itself.
Among other things, we are less confident now than we used to be that there is
such a thing as the truth, which locution seems to point to an ostensibly
discredited metaphysics or, worse, to theology. These developments do not
constitute a crisis. On the contrary, they are a sign of life. But they need,
I think, to be recognized and reflected on. 

At this point it is worth reminding ourselves of what most obviously unites us
as a faculty, namely, our common dedication to liberal education, our
dedication to the acquisition of the liberal arts and to habits of
thoughtfulness gained through the reading and discussion of the best books we
can lay our hands on, the great books. We may not be able to agree about the
nature of truth, but do we not agree about the value of reading great books?
Indeed we do, but what is the basis of this agreement? It is, I suspect, the
realization that the authors of these books raise, and in some cases even
proffer answers to, the fundamental human questions. It is our agreement about
the enduring significance of these questions that leads us to the books, and
so to take liberal education seriously in the first place. 

We should not be misled by a formulation that the College has adverted to over
the years to the effect that St. John's aims at educating thoughtful citizens,
at producing reflective participants in democratic self-government. This
formulation is innocuous enough inasmuch as it leaves it open whether such
citizens will be liberal or conservative. St. John's has no interest in, much
less allegiance to, any political ideology. We do not aim at producing
partisan ideologues. Anyone who has participated in a seminar with St. John's
faculty, students, or alumni on a matter of pressing political importance has
to be struck by the even handed treatment it gets, the balanced tone of the
contributions, the consideration the participants display toward one another,
and the general willingness to entertain and think through uncongenial
opinions. Such occasions reassure those who are uncomfortable with the thought
that liberal education is just[!] an end in itself, an "ivory tower"
enterprise. Still, it is not quite correct to say that even an uncommonly
lofty form of citizenship is what the College aims at. It is unlikely that
many entering freshmen come to St. John's exclusively or even primarily for
the sake of becoming good citizens. They come here, instead, in hopes of
becoming deeper and more fully alive human beings. They find plausible our
claim that liberal education is singularly conducive to depth and vitality.
Good citizenship is a by- product of liberal education, a most impressive
by-product, to be sure, but a by-product nonetheless. It is, after all, from
the great political philosophers we read at the College that we learn that
politics is not everything, that it is not even the most important thing.

The most important thing, it seems, is the examined life. And one way, perhaps
the best way, in which life gets examined is by raising the fundamental
questions of enduring significance, the questions that bear most heavily on
human existence. If, then, it is concern with the fundamental questions that
leads us to the liberal arts and to the great books in the first place, these
questions can be said both to provoke and to sustain our endeavor at the
College. A sensitivity to these questions is the chief precondition of liberal
education, and a liberally educated human being is one who does not
underestimate their weight. Accordingly, one might design a liberal arts
curriculum, or evaluate one already in place, by attempting to determine how
successfully it keeps these questions in sight. In rethinking the
undergraduate curriculum here, we need to ask anew what the basic
presuppositions of the program are, and how adequately the curriculum actually
reflects these presuppositions. To be sure, we tell ourselves that we are
engaged in liberal education: seven books and a balance; the quadrivium and
trivium, plus natural science; making free human beings out of children. It is
unlikely that any College in the country has given more sustained reflection
to the principles of its academic enterprise than St. John's has. But have we
given enough? The loftiness of our conception of what we are aiming at,
namely, human freedom at its acme, requires a vigilance of thought that is
hard to sustain. We run the risk of turning radical enquiry itself into a
catchword. Newcomers to the faculty sense a certain staleness in our
formulations. No one doubts the richness of the program. Almost everything we
study here is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, interesting, even exciting.
Still, are all parts of the program equally liberating? How detailed an
understanding of, say, the elementary constitution of matter must one have in
order to be liberally educated? Not to pick on the laboratory, similar
questions could be asked about other parts of the program. After all, our
laboratory program may be the finest undergraduate science program in the
country. And the entire undergraduate program is probably the finest
undergraduate program in the country. Could it be better? 

By way of addressing this issue, let us return to the fundamental questions.
In all our rhetoric about these questions do we have any agreement as to
exactly what they are? At the risk of raising eyebrows, without any pretense
of comprehensiveness, and placing them in no particular order, I would suggest
the following as at least among the fundamental questions. What is truth? What
is the character of knowledge, and what are its limits? What is being? What is
nature? How is mathematics related to the world? What is history? What is the
best regime? What is the human? Does God exist, and if so what is His relation
to human beings? What is language, and how is it related to reason? Can the
imagination disclose important dimensions of reality that are inaccessible to
reason? What is beauty, and what connection if any does it have with the true,
the morally good, and the merely pleasant? One could go on, but I suspect that
most of us would agree that questions of such weight as these, however one
stands on the answers that can be given to them, are fundamental. They provide
a kind of definition by example of what we at the College mean by fundamental
questions. They are not, however, opening questions. The questions we begin
classes with are more circumscribed, and spring directly out of the particular
text that is under consideration. But the text itself is under consideration
only because of the light we think it sheds on one or more of the fundamental
questions. When questions of such weight are not in the foreground of our
discussions they are still in the background. We never entirely lose sight of
them. Without making the fundamental questions come alive for ourselves and
our students the program would consist of the "history of ideas" merely. The
presence of a fair amount of mathematics and "hard" science would not, by
itself, improve things much. It is the centrality of wakeful questioning about
the most important things that keeps St. John's College from becoming Motley
Cow Tech. 

Now, granted that the list of fundamental questions that I have presented is
incomplete, is there a question, or an answer to a question that has a
priority for the College, one that underlies the way we address all the
others? We indeed say that liberal education is the best education. If we
thought otherwise, would we not be moving toward a better form of education?
Surely we are not just dutifully filling a niche in the contemporary
educational scene. Do we not, rather, hold to the view that, in taking a stand
on behalf of liberal education, the College takes a stand on behalf of
education construed as an end in itself, holding the other forms of education
to be mere means to ends other than knowledge? And does the College not hold
that it is better to be educated than to be uneducated? Consider the following
passage from Jacob Klein's essay, "The Idea of Liberal Education."

The history of education is the history of the meaning of the term "school."
Let me quote from Aristotle's Politics (VIII,2): "Nature herself, as has often
been said, requires that we should be able not only to work well, but to use
leisure [scolh ] well; for, as I must repeat once again, the first principle
of all action [that is the end for the sake of which any action is undertaken]
is leisure... and therefore the question must be asked in earnest, What ought
we to do when at leisure? Clearly we ought not to be amusing ourselves, for
then amusement would be the end of life." And Aristotle goes on: "It is clear,
then, that there are branches of learning and education which we must study
with a view to the enjoyment of leisure, and these are to be valued for their
own sake." To study for the enjoyment of leisure and in leisure means to be
engaged in liberal education. It is an arduous task. This kind of education
does not look for some goal or good beyond itself. It is in itself its own
end. Long before Aristotle and long after him, even under totally different
social conditions, this statement defined liberal learning and liberal
education. What this understanding of liberal education assumes is that man's
most proper and specific character is his desire to know. Only in pursuing
this goal is man really man and really free." (Lectures and Essays,
pp.165-166; italics mine).

Some of these observations hearken back to Aristotle's claim in the
Nichomachean Ethics that the intellect is the best part of us (1177a13 ff.),
and that the intellect most of all is man (1178a8). In keeping with this
sentiment, spokesmen for the College have from time to time, both tacitly and
expressly, claimed that the life of thoughtful reflection is the best life. Of
course, the expression, "the best life," generates certain disagreeable moral
overtones today. But this was not always so. For, among other things, one of
the fundamental questions raised by the books we read is whether the good and
the moral, or the just, are equivalent. An alternative is at least thinkable,
namely, that the good is not the moral at all but, rather, the pleasant: the
best life is the most pleasant life, the happiest life, and best for this
reason and no other. However that may be, the moral bias in the question of
what the best life is can be avoided by reformulating this question. What is
the most choiceworthy life? We note in this connection that Socrates' claim
that the unexamined life is not worth living has been offered more than once
as a justification for what the College is up to. Of course, it does not
follow from this and similar claims about liberal education that the most
choiceworthy life is the life of a tutor or of any other professional
academician. What does follow from such claims is that the habits of
questioning and thoughtful reflection that we attempt to inculcate in our
students should be habits that continue to shape their lives after they leave
the College, i.e., that the liberal education our students have begun here
should not be construed as complete upon receipt of a St. John's diploma.
There is no reason in principle why a life governed in large measure by habits
of thoughtful reflection, even the love and pursuit of wisdom itself, is
impossible for the head of a household, or for someone who no longer has
anything to do with the professional academic world, but continues to make
good use of what leisure he has at his disposal. It is, indeed, hardly
surprising that a high percentage of our students continue their education
after leaving St. John's, and that many of them become professional educators
of one sort or another. But, to repeat, one hardly needs to enter the
professional academic world to be true to the ideal of liberal education. 

Now, though it is true to say that liberal education aims at cultivating
habits of thoughtful reflection, this formulation does not go far enough.
According to its original conception, and as it has been typically understood
at St. John's, liberal education aims at replacing opinions about the most
important things, even replacing right opinions about them, with knowledge. To
be sure, this end may rarely be attained. It may in fact never yet have been
attained. But liberal education as a meaningful enterprise implies the
possibility, at least, of attaining this, its loftiest end. And yet today we
as a faculty are less confident about this possibility than our predecessors
were. Accordingly, to say that the intellectual center of the College consists
in our common dedication to liberal education overlooks, or at least
downplays, a grave difficulty. The way out of this difficulty, however, is
provided by further reflection on liberal education itself. Liberal education,
which is after all philosophy, or at least incipient philosophy, prides itself
on its willingness to examine its own presuppositions. Indeed, one of the
fundamental questions that liberal education takes up is what knowledge is
and, more to the point, whether knowledge about the most important things is
accessible to man as man. In confronting this question head on one encounters,
in some of the most compelling books we read, the counter claim, with
arguments in support of it, that knowledge about the most important things, as
opposed to mere opinion, is not a human possibility. It is hardly surprising,
then, that some members of the faculty would come to be more persuaded of the
truth of the counter claim than of the claim that replacing mere opinion about
the most important things with knowledge properly so called is a genuine
possibility. That this latter claim is arguably the fundamental principle of
liberal education itself, and hence of the program of instruction at St.
John's, does not prevent doubts about it from having an effect on the
development of the program. The program is changing, whether we like it or
not. And the impetus for change comes from within the program itself. 

It is possible, I think, to identify in the program two principal and
independent sources of doubts about the possibility of liberal education
according to its original conception. The Bible is one such source, and
Nietzsche is the other. To be sure, there are other sources, for example,
skepticism,. But in terms of present influence on the faculty and in the
program, these two are the chief sources. In opposition to both is the
official position of the College as an institution dedicated to liberal
education according to its original conception. This position is exemplified
by classical philosophy, which ranges from Socratic questioning to
considerably more ambitious attempts to articulate "the whole." The
intellectual center of the College, then, is not our common agreement on the
possibility of replacing opinion about the most important things with
knowledge, for such agreement does not exist. The intellectual center of the
College is, in fact, not the College's official position. The intellectual
center of the College is rather the tension between opposing views regarding
the nature of truth and the possibility of knowledge, and, consequently,
between opposing views of what constitutes the most choiceworthy life.
Classical philosophy and the Bible agree with each other, and against what for
lack of a better expression I shall call "philosophical perspectivism," that
there is objective truth. Classical philosophy and philosophical perspectivism
agree with each other, and against the Bible, that there is no such thing as
revelation from the beyond. The Bible and philosophical perspectivism agree
with each other, and against classical philosophy, that human reason is not
adequate to objective truth. Now, admittedly this schema is crude, even
comically so. It conceals other agreements and disagreements that exist among
the parties concerned. It overlooks a certain blurring that takes place at the
margins of these positions. And it disregards the existence of views that
resist reduction to any of the three I have specified. But these
considerations do not require a significant modification in the fundamental
point I wish to stress here, namely, that the intellectual center of College
is dialectical. In spite of this fact, or rather because of it, the faculty
can still be said to be united in their commitment to liberal education. For
liberal education necessarily entails the most serious consideration of what
its deepest critics have to say. These critics have a prominent voice in the
books we read. It was virtually inevitable that they would come to have a
prominent voice on the faculty.

To repeat, those on the faculty who side with the Bible or with philosophical
perspectivism have to entertain the gravest doubts about whether liberal
education as traditionally conceived, and as re-established by the founders of
our program, is able to achieve its loftiest end, that is, the replacing of
mere opinion about the most important things with knowledge. On the other
hand, if these doubting practitioners of the liberal arts are thoughtful, they
have to be impressed at what the College accomplishes by way of at least
approximating this lofty goal. And so, if they are thoughtful, they can and
should find their existence at the College intellectually bracing, and hence
rewarding, without entertaining any hopes of subverting the aims of the
program and reshaping it to fit their own views of truth, the possibility of
knowledge, and what constitutes the most choiceworthy life. Since, however,
there can be no guarantee of thoughtfulness, sustained efforts must be made to
recruit faculty who are unequivocally committed, in mind and heart, to liberal
education according to its traditional conception, and as the College has
conceived it from the establishment of the new program up to the present. Of
the three alternatives mentioned, the classical one has a certain primacy. The
College needs a faculty that consists substantially of tutors whose commitment
to liberal education is rooted in their conviction that its loftiest end is
attainable. On the other hand, a faculty consisting exclusively of tutors all
more or less convinced on this score would actually inhibit the attainment of
the end in question. For, again, thoughtful consideration of alternative views
on the possibility of replacing opinion about the most important things with
knowledge is demanded by the very idea of liberal education. And, all other
things being equal, the best case for the alternatives to liberal education,
classically conceived, will be made by those who are most struck by the power
of these alternatives. Paradoxically, the College needs at least some faculty
who think that the loftiest end of liberal education cannot be attained, if
the College is to have a reasonable prospect of attaining this end. 

In this connection it needs to be stressed that the College is not in the
business of defending "Western values." Such a defense would be almost a
contradiction in terms given the conflict of "values" that constitutes "the
West." The College cannot be true to itself by taking a polemical stance
toward any thing except superficiality. The faculty, constituted as described
above, is confident of its ability to sustain the tradition of liberal
education. It is confident that it can demonstrate this tradition's benefits
even to its strongest critics. This confidence, this courage, emerges out of
the living dialogue that thrives here and that serves as an example in
American education.

Now, if the intellectual center of the College is dialectical in the way I
have described it, and if adequately addressing fundamental questions is the
ultimate reason for the program we have, the tensions implied in these
questions should shape the contours of the curriculum, almost down to the
smallest particulars. Do they? 

Suppose we were to take up the following exercise. Here are four empty years
to devote to liberal education. Fill them up with a program of study that
centers on the fundamental questions of enduring significance. Take the
trivium and quadrivium as guidelines, but do not get hemmed in by them. Forget
all about accreditation for the time being, ignore entrenched opposition from
the de facto departments that have arisen contrary to the spirit of the
institution, and never mind whose ox gets gored. What would the resultant
program look like? 

It would, I suspect, look quite similar to the program we have at present.
Undoubtedly we would have a seminar devoted to the reading and discussion of
great books, which could be virtually identified by the angle and magnitude of
light they shed on the fundamental questions. And the seminar books would not
just consist of philosophy and theology. The old quarrel between philosophy
and poetry, and the inconclusive outcome of that quarrel, would require the
presence of the finest works of literature we could profitably study in the
seminar setting. Clarity about the essence of history would require the
reading and discussion not only of works about history but works of history as
well. Mathematics would be studied in some depth, though for obvious reasons
in a tutorial setting rather than in seminar. It would be studied just as we
in fact study it, that is, primarily as a liberal art and only secondarily,
quite secondarily, as a tool for the solving of problems. Such a study of
mathematics, with emphasis from the outset on questions of first principles,
proof, and evidence, would provide one with ongoing, direct experience of mere
opinions giving way to knowledge. On the other hand, the hypothetical
character of this knowledge would have to be kept in view. Changes in the
conception of the subject matter of mathematics, and the questionable
character of mathematical hypotheses, would eventually become central themes.
In other words, we would begin with Euclid. We would study Apollonius as an
extension of Euclidian geometry. We would note the increased power gained by
Descartes with the discovery, or invention, of analytic geometry, and we would
attempt to assess whether or not this incontestable increase in power comes at
the cost of a decrease in insight. We would study the foundations of the
calculus, and we would ask questions of it similar to those we would put to
analytic geometry. We would study non-Euclidean geometry, and we would marvel
at Euclid's recognition that the fifth postulate could be only a postulate.
The relation between mathematics and the world would be studied, preeminently
in mathematical physics, but also in music, not just because it is a member of
the quadrivium, but because of the startling fact that the pleasure we take in
music has a demonstrably mathematical, and hence rational, basis. In our
attempt to get a concrete understanding of what nature is we would study not
only physics, but chemistry and biology as well. We would not rely on
textbooks, however. Instead, we would read and discuss seminal papers in these
areas, and we would attempt to recreate in our own experience the observations
and experiments that led the greatest scientists to their conclusions.
Language as an expression of reason, or as a seducer of reason as the case may
be, would be studied at length. We would not restrict our attention to our
mother tongue, but would attempt to achieve some distance, and hence
perspective, through foreign language study. Foreign language study would in
turn permit a close reading of a select number of texts in the original
language. The cultivation of sensibility and the imagination effected by the
study of literature would raise the fundamental question of the limits of
autonomous rationality. A four year program of study centering on the
fundamental questions would look a lot like the very program we have.

But, perhaps, not in every respect. Before considering how a program centering
on these questions might be different from, and perhaps better than, the
program we actually have, it is necessary to undertake a digression into the
issue of how the program has taken on its present shape. Responsibility for
the organization of the program is vested in the chairman of the instruction
committee of the College. (Polity, Art. V (1)) The position of chairman is
occupied in alternate years by the deans of the two campuses, who consult with
each other and with the instruction committee. In spite of these Polity
provisions, archons exercise considerable independence. Instructional
material, even whole topics of study, such as logic, get phased in or out at
the discretion of the archon, not subject to the approval of the instruction
committee, but rather with the consent or at the urging of the tutors actually
teaching the classes where the changes are introduced. Manuals get written,
revised, discarded, and reinstated without consultation with the dean and
instruction committee, often without the dean and instruction committee even
being informed. Significant revisions in certain parts of the program that got
endorsed, or even initiated, by the instruction committee, come to be ignored
by succeeding archons down the road. There is really not much that can be done
about this sort of thing, except for the dean to issue periodic reminders to
the faculty of where the Polity vests responsibility for the program. And
deans are understandably reluctant to issue such reminders. After all,
consensus is part of the tradition of the College. If the tutors actually
teaching a given class wish to try out something that's not simply
harebrained, why not? Maybe we'll learn something important from the
"experiment." The question, however, is what the guiding principle of change
is, or rather whether there is a guiding principle. Often we justify a change
by saying simply that it "works well," without articulating exactly what end
it works well for.

It is likely that responsibility for the program is vested in the deans and
the instruction committee, rather than in the archons or in the whole faculty,
in the expectation that changes in the curriculum (and even small changes can
accumulate into something that is no longer small) take place with a view to
more perfectly realizing the central aims of the program. The dean and
instruction committee, at least, should be focussing on the program as a
whole. But the issue is complicated. It is not just deference to the principle
of consensus that makes deans reluctant to supervise the program directly. The
instruction committee rarely has the time that is necessary to speculate
fruitfully about how the program can best be maintained and developed.
Personnel issues ranging from the appointment and reappointment of faculty to
preparation of the teaching slate take up most of the instruction committee's
time. Moreover, deans realize that allowing a certain amount of discretion to
the tutors regarding exactly what they treat in their classes, and how they
treat it, enables the tutors to deepen their intellectual lives, which
obviously is not to the detriment but rather to the benefit of the College.
Still, when one looks at the program as a whole, one cannot help but sometimes
wonder who's minding the store.

The Program could be made more coherent, could be made more of a whole, by
attending more carefully to the fundamental questions and the places in the
curriculum where they most readily come to the fore. The following changes
suggest themselves. They are not proposals. They are suggestions merely, and
are offered for faculty discussion of the program construed as an integrated
whole resting on clear and consistent principles. 

1. Sophomore seminar could have greater coherence. Given that parts of the
Bible are older than the Homeric epics, we read texts in sophomore seminar
spanning a period of about 2,500 years. By contrast, the readings of the
freshman seminar span a period of about 800 years, and the junior and senior
seminars about 200 years each (shorter periods in those two years partially
because preceptorials replace a total of 16 weeks worth of seminars).
Moreover, sophomore seminar covers a wider range of material than anywhere
else in the program, including sacred scriptures of Judaism and Christianity,
selections from Greek philosophy, Roman historiography and biography, medieval
philosophy, theology, and literature, seminal texts in the origins of modern
politics and science, and Shakespeare. The disparity of themes and outlooks is
greater here than in any other seminar. Whereas one could say, in a nutshell,
and hence inadequately though not altogether inaccurately, that the freshman
year treats the most impressive intellectual achievements of Greek antiquity,
and that the junior and senior years treat the origins and breakdown of
modernity respectively, there is no way of summing up, even crudely, what
sophomore seminar treats. And yet it is in the sophomore year that the tension
between the rival claims of philosophy and piety really comes to the fore.
However individual tutors end up weighing these claims, the rivalry between
them should be one of the great themes of the College. This end could be
achieved by modifying the seminar reading lists. I am not suggesting that we
should add more Christian theology. We have plenty of that already. Rather,
the way the relation between reason and revelation is understood in the great
Muslim and Jewish philosophers of the Middle Ages should get more of hearing.
Some Maimonides and Averroes is already included in the sophomore seminar on
the Santa Fe campus. We could be reading Al Farabi and Judah Halevy also, and
probably Avicenna as well. These are not Eastern authors. They are, rather,
classics of the West, a vital part of the great dialogue that constitutes
Western intellectual history, though a part of the dialogue hitherto virtually
ignored by the College. Adding works of these authors could be achieved, up to
a point, simply by dropping other works on the sophomore seminar reading list,
or rotating certain works in and out on alternate years. The suggestion that
follows would allow for a better solution.

2. Descartes' Discourse on Method and the readings by Bacon need not be done
in sophomore seminar (where they are distributed over four seminar nights).
Rather, they could be included in the junior year. They would be included in
junior seminar, I suspect, if there were room for them. But room is not there.
The readings of Junior seminar, in Santa Fe at least, are about as stable as
those of Freshman seminar. The best place to include these readings by Bacon
and Descartes would be near the beginning of junior laboratory. Their presence
in that class would contribute to a deeper understanding of what is at issue
in the founding of modern science. This would also be a good place to look
back at certain parts of Aristotle's Physics in order to see what modern
science understands itself to be taking issue with. And while we are at it,
why not study Galileo's Dialogue on the Two Chief World Systems in junior
laboratory as well, not in place of his Two New Sciences, but as an
introduction to this work? The foundations of modern science would get about
as full an exposure in such a sequence of readings as one could reasonably
hope for. And, four seminar spaces would open up in the sophomore year, which
would facilitate the first suggestion. The objection, of course, concerns what
would have to be taken out of the program to make room for these additions to
junior laboratory. The only way they could be accommodated, as far as I can
see, would be by ending junior laboratory with Faraday and beginning senior
laboratory with Maxwell. Distributing the electricity and magnetism sequence
across the junior and senior years could be managed if the manuals kept the
phenomena that the Faraday sequence had disclosed to the juniors in view for
the seniors beginning their study of Maxwell. Postponing Maxwell to the senior
year would not have an adverse effect on the study of Einstein if the latter
were moved from the first semester to the second semester, where it already
exists in Annapolis (a difference between the two campuses that makes life
miserable for the occasional senior who needs to transfer mid-year for
emergency reasons). Senior mathematics in Santa Fe would begin, as it does in
Annapolis, with the study of non-Euclidean geometry. Of course, something
would have to come out of the study of quantum mechanics, or perhaps genetics,
to pull this change off. Perhaps everything we are presently doing in these
segments is absolutely indispensable, but I doubt it. It seems that the
project of the upper level physics sequence, which is distributed across the
mathematics tutorial and the laboratory, is to see the preparation and
realization of the Newtonian synthesis, and the unravelling of that synthesis.
Clearly we need to study both relativity and quantum mechanics, in addition to
electricity and magnetism, in order to have an insight into the post-Newtonian
world. The question is how comprehensive such insight has to be at this stage
of a liberal education, which is, after all, a life long project, and one that
the College only begins. We need to ask ourselves what should count as the
more important task of the upper level physics sequence. Is it to gain a
fairly deep understanding of the contemporary state of mathematical physics,
or is it to gain a fairly deep understanding of the foundations of
mathematical physics, its presuppositions and first tentative moves? The
question is important because we cannot perform both tasks well.

3. Returning to the sophomore year, we need to come to some kind of consensus
on the teaching of logic at St. John's. It is clear that, rightly or wrongly,
there is nothing resembling a consensus to the effect that we should study
formal logic in any sustained fashion here at the College, in spite of the
fact that this subject matter is established as a special area of systematic
(I, for one, do not use this word as a pejorative) enquiry by Aristotle. The
character and status of logic should be one of the great themes of the College
inasmuch as it is directly relevant to question of the adequacy, or
inadequacy, of reason to the truth. I would suggest simply eliminating all
attempts to teach the Prior Analytics and the theory of the syllogism, not to
mention later developments in symbolic logic, from the sophomore language
tutorial. It is after all the formal dimension of logic that, rightly or
wrongly (I think wrongly), turns many faculty off. I would, however, advocate
devoting no less than six weeks to the study of logic in the sophomore
language tutorial. I would recommend that this study consist of, first, some
very short readings from Book IV of the Metaphysics and from the Posterior
Analytics on the nature and presuppositions of demonstrative science, and,
second, a collection of arguments extracted from the books we read in seminar,
to be inspected closely with a view to determining whether or not they are
valid and how evident their premises are. A logic manual could be prepared
containing the relevant sections of the Posterior Analytics and the extracts
to be examined for logical coherence. The study of logic is too important to
be simply ignored. In my opinion, we are deceiving ourselves if we think that
the seminar conversation does real justice to the serious questions that the
study of logic raises thematically.

4. Exactly how much do students need to know about music at this stage of a
liberal education? The chief objection to putting art in the sophomore year,
at least my chief objection, has been that a fifth class in the sophomore year
would have the effect of diluting the music program. But this need not happen.
Putting art into the sophomore year need not dilute the music program at all.
It could, instead, just shorten it. At present, in Santa Fe, after the study
of harmony, three large scale works are studied, typically, Mozart's Magic
Flute, Bach's St. Matthew Passion, and the first movement of Beethoven's
"Eroica" symphony. All of these works are great, but so are a lot of other
works. We could restrict our attention to just one of them, and give the
remaining time in the spring semester to the study of visual art, adopting,
with a few revisions, the program we presently have in the spring semester of
the senior year, and leaving it to the music tutors to teach it. True, the art
classes would no longer be co-led by two tutors the way they are at present.
These co-led classes were particularly important in the early years of the art
program, when we had little experience as a faculty in teaching the visual
arts. But we have gained considerable experience over the last eight years. At
this point we should be able to rely on the tutors' meetings to help out
tutors teaching art for the first time, as we do with the other tutorials in
the program. On my suggestion, the art tutorial would just replace the music
tutorial, and the latter would end at spring break. Nothing would be changed
in the first semester of sophomore music. All the properly theoretical
questions we presently treat would continue to be treated. We would just
curtail, rather drastically to be sure, the amount of time allotted to the
study of individual masterpieces in the second semester. Regaining lost ground
in senior language especially, but in senior mathematics also, would be, I
have finally come to believe, worth it. 

5. Among the better received events at the College, at least here in Santa Fe,
is the informal Wednesday afternoon lecture. These lectures have been
particularly well attended by students when they have treated some topic
specifically connected to what they have been studying in their classes. I
suggest that there could be more such lectures, with attendance expected of
students who are at that time studying material related to the lecture topic.
For example, a lecture on formal logic, including an overview of the syllogism
and the rudiments of propositional logic, could be given every year for
sophomores just as they begin their study of logic. Of course, there would be
a question period afterwards, attendance also expected, which would reduce the
danger of passive acceptance of what the expert has to say. Similar lectures
could be given, every year, on other topics that we would like our students to
at least be aware of, but which we cannot devote time to in our classes. I
could imagine treating a variety of topics this way, including but not limited
to mathematical formalism, the physiology of perception, and developments in
contemporary quantum physics and genetics (see # 2 above). Such lectures would
be an occasion for introducing students to topics the familiarly with which is
a desideratum, but not a necessity at this point their education. There is no
reason why the same tutor could not give the same lecture on one of these
topics every year. To be sure, such a change presupposes that we can make the
distinction between what is desirable and what it is necessary for our
students to devote their attention to while they are at the College. Agreement
should be obtainable. It can hardly be presupposed.

As is obvious, the suggestions I have made are interrelated. It is likely that
putting one into effect would lead to putting the others, or variations on
them, into effect as well. We may well decide that we do not wish to entertain
changes of the magnitude I have suggested. My chief hope, in placing these
suggestions before the faculty, is that by addressing them we will be led to
reflect again on what we mean by "the program." 

Respectfully submitted,

James Carey 
Dean, Santa Fe 
Chairman of the Instruction Committee of the College, 1998-1999

-----------------
President's Response to the Dean's Statement 

Mr. Carey's statement has proven to be one of the most controversial dean's
statements in my 10 years at St. John's College. The controversy took me by
surprise, since the statement seemed to express a usually unspoken but, to me,
clear truth: The liberal arts are not just a collection of nice disciplines,
mixing up the arts here and the sciences there. Nor is liberal education just
learning a few valuable, useful skills - how to read carefully, listen, argue,
evaluate. The paper asked the more radical question: Do the liberal arts have
a core or a center that shapes what areas get examined and what skills are
learned? Answer: Yes. In part, the liberal arts embody the desire to discover
answers to the most important, most fundamental, most significant human
questions: What is being, what is nature, what is truth? Does God exist? If He
does, what is his relationship to human beings? What makes something
beautiful: What should I love? We hope, through our books, to gain insight
into these questions. Maybe even to begin to answer them. 

But what does this mean? It can mean no less than the hope that, through
education - liberal education - we can begin to substitute knowledge for
opinion - we can move from feelings, sentiments, handed-down traditions, dicta
taken on authority, to real insight. As the dean says, at St. John's liberal
education aims at replacing opinions about the most important things with
knowledge. This, he admits, may rarely be attained - yet liberal education
stands or falls by the truth of possibility of attaining such knowledge
through reason. "Yet," he adds, "we as a faculty are less confident about this
possibility than our predecessors were." 

Why less confident? Well, it grows out of liberal education itself- liberal
education alone forever questions its own presuppositions: Yes, we want to
move from opinions to knowledge - that's what liberal education is about. Yet
liberal education also asks the question of itself - is that really possible?
Some of the greatest books, books we take very seriously, say, forthrightly,
that this notion is not a human possibility. Some question the very idea, or
existence of truth. Others do not deny that truth exists but they question the
ability of reason to reach the truth. To the first, truth is a construct:
perhaps made today and perhaps gone tomorrow. To others there surely is truth,
but something else - let's say, for instance, Biblical Faith - is the vehicle
for getting to truth - not reading Plato or Locke or Descartes. 

Yet, oddly enough, while these two alternatives can dismiss liberal education
as idle or useless, liberal education can't dismiss them. It has to take them
into account. Liberal education has to take seriously its contraries - it
would not be true to the search for truth if it did not recognize the weight,
the strength, of its antagonists. Truth through reason is the standard of
liberal education - and such an education has to study, take seriously, give
weight to those who say that standard is false or silly. As Mr. Carey says,
"the tension between opposing views regarding the nature of truth and the
possibility of knowledge" is the intellectual center of the College. But
giving place to alternative views doesn't mean giving in to alternative views:
Can there not still be a core - a heart - to what we do that both accepts,
even welcomes, various critiques, but still says they must and will remain
peripheral to enterprise: that St. John's still must center itself around the
notion that truth through reason is a possibility that we are permanently
attached to? Or, as Dean Carey puts it more subtly, "The college needs a
faculty that consists substantially of tutors whose commitment to liberal
education is rooted in their conviction that its loftiest end is attainable."
What follows, paradoxically, is that the college needs some faculty who
dispute this, if the college is to be thoughtful about achieving its end. 

What did the faculty make of this? Well, they disputed it. Is this really the
correct view of liberal education, some asked. Meaning, I imagine, perhaps
liberal education aims at something less, or lower, than truth through reason.
Perhaps it simply sharpens questions rather than answers. Perhaps skills, not
content, are primary. Is one view of liberal education truly central? Is it
helpful to categorize people into differing "camps"? Will the faculty be
judged by their allegiances to this or that view? Isn't what we mean by
knowledge more multi-faceted than this paper describes? Haven't we merely
reduced the liberal arts to philosophy, and made philosophy king? What about
the imagination? What about science? 

I would like to say there was a bright line that ran through the faculty's
questions that made their views cohere, but I can't say that. So I simply give
you a taste of what they said -realizing that a number of faculty members - a
very large number I think - fully supported the paper and, with me, thought it
exhibited eminent sense.


John Agresto
President, St. John's College
Santa Fe, New Mexico 


____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1


From pjeshka at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  8 02:11:47 2000
From: pjeshka at yahoo.com (kol pal)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:11:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Kastrioti:   ish spiunet e sigurimit
Message-ID: <20001208071147.54889.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com>

z. Kastriot 
Do te lutesha shume dhe do ta dija per nder, po qe se
do te mundeshe te publikoje ne Alb club listen e ish
spiunve dhe spiunve te sigurimit. Kjo do ti sherbente
me mire demaskimit elektronik te tyre dhe si i tille
do te mbeten ne jete te jeteve te damkosur ne menyre
digitale me vulen e turpit. 
Duke te falenderuar sinqerisht per lejen qe me dhe per
te marre shkrime nga te dua, shpreh njekohesisht
keqeardhjen qe spaske pasur drita dhe me keq akoma qe
mitingun e protestes e paske lene pa bere per arsye se
mos ish sigurimsat e shfrytzonin per lavdi personale. 

I dshur une s'njohe as Yuve e as Bedriun dhe sdi kur
eshte spiun, por pershkrimi per z. Meta (nuk e di ne e
ke debulese) edhe se pak shpues e ofendues e kishte
qendisur mire fare. 
Per mendimin tim eshte nje fatkeqesi kombetare, e pse
jo dhe nderkombatre qe Shqiperia qeveriset nga
kalamajte. 
Kol


--- Kastriot_?ipi <pegas at albmail.com> wrote:

> O Kol,
> merr shkrime nga te duash, vetem te lutem mos posto
> ketu ato te ish-spiuneve
> 

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kol pal
> To: alb-club at alb-net.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:31 AM
> Subject: [Alb-club] Stanari nga Skrapari i gjan
> Stalinit
> > Meta do ket? fund tragjik
> 
> 
> Bedri Myftari

> ____________________________________________________
> Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com
> http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club


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From epiphanius at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  7 23:25:44 2000
From: epiphanius at yahoo.com (Dan Khazar)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:25:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Food
Message-ID: <20001208042544.4643.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com>

FOOD

She calls, usually past midnight, possibly because
she?s addicted to my sounding very sleepy, with all my
defenses down, desperately receptive and meek. 
?Where have you been? I was expecting to see you at
the exhibition.?
So she has been to Alhve?s exhibition; this guy is a
Native-American conceptual painter, quite obscure
indeed, who's exposing his art inside an abandoned
subway tunnel in Downtown Manhattan. What Alhve has
done, is to paint his ideas ? like triangles and such
? directly on the bare tunnel walls; it is supposed to
be a bold attempt at reclaiming the rocky underground
from the White Man. They also used to organize those
24-hour corn-based breakfasts there, train themselves
in pre-Colombian eating etiquettes, and stuff like
that.
?Is your idea of visual gratification still limited to
those pin-up girl calendars of yours?? she wants to
know.
?Actually it?s color photos of Thanksgivings? turkey
dishes for the moment. I?m using them as computer
wallpaper.?
She sighs frequently, especially when she meets with
resistance. Then she suddenly tells me about this
indie flick, entirely shot in Yemen, and now shown ?
experimentally ? in the Village. Only 37 people have
seen it so far (the projection room has a full
capacity of 6), she?s among the 37, of course; she?s
even talked to the director, and given him 50 bucks as
a token of good will.
?It?s a movie about qat, the stuff they chew in
Southern Arabia to get high.?
I tell her about the movie that I just saw,
?Pancakes?, at the AMC Cineplex.
?Cineplexes suck,? she comments. ?Then, ?Pancakes??
Puhlease! How can you bear to see such crap??
?It?s not crap, it?s entertainment.?
At this point, we agree to meet during the weekend,
and have dinner together in one of those Thai
restaurants that have just opened on the East Side.
She eats exclusively Thai, these days. Last week it
was Mongolian. Apparently, all this has something to
do with tantric sex, if I remember well.
?And don?t fuck up, by checking at some steakhouse,
before meeting me for dinner.?
?You know, sweetheart, that as far as I am concerned,
Thai food is no opportunity to eat. Just an
ethnographic experience. Ethnogastric, so to say.
Anyway, are we going to be just the two of us, or are
you bringing along any recent discovery of yours??
?You mean Ashaya??
?Who the heck is Ashaya?? I ask, although I?ve had
more than enough of her anorexic Ashaya. 
?Did you forget about Ashaya already? Of course you
did, with all the processed food you ingest every day.
. . She?s that singer from Mozambique, that I?m
helping with the concert.?
As if I am supposed to know.
?Why don?t you do the concert at Alhve?s art gallery,
since you are at it??
?You think the idea hasn?t occurred to us?
Unfortunately, the acoustics is far from being
perfect. And we can?t get some of the instruments
through the stairwell, in any case.?
?You could use transportation by rail.?
?Very funny. Tell me you have nothing against Ashaya
joining us, OK??
Why should I have to object to that? I have no doubt
Ashaya is necessary for the overall scheme of things,
at least for certain tribes here in the City. And I
like the fragrance she puts on, it reminds me of a
perfumed pen I used to have as a kid.
This is the moment when she will ask me what I have
been listening to lately. Well, I have the answer:
I?ve got this very cool tape for the car stereo, with
Ricky Martin, The Backstreet Boys, Jennifer Lopez, and
that other chick . . .
?And you call THAT music??
?What should I call it??
?It?s the musical equivalent of junk food.?
?So what? I like junk food.?
?Have you heard Bela Bartok?s piano etudes played by
the Moldovan harpsichordist Iovana Pitru??
?No.?
?You should, I?m going to give you the CD. Only try
not to touch its surface with your greasy fingers.?
I have a whole drawer with the music she wants me to
listen to. Sometimes, when she can?t locate some CD in
her own apartment, at least she knows where to look
for it.
Now I decide it?s my turn to show off.
?Sweetie, I saw Harrison Ford in the Park yesterday.?
?Harrison Ford? That pretty boy? With all the chest
hair? Did you take him to Burger King??
It?s that we make use of two different life-support
systems, which still need each-other to keep working.
I imagine the connection between the two in the form
of some umbilical cord, pulsing with feedback juices,
possibly glowing. 
?Don?t you understand, that nobody would venture to
that Mongolian Grill of yours, if it weren?t for all
the Big Macs around? And that your Ashaya, with all
her trainload of African folk instruments, should be
thankful to Britney Spears?? I?m trying some reasoning
here.
?Bullshit.?
?What would you do if there were no mediocrity to
challenge??
?You are munching at something, right? What is it,
peanuts??
?Cedar cheese chips, with sour cream, the ones I
always prefer, when I happen to be in a
sleep-deprivation status.?
?You happen to be in a hopeless pig status, d?you know
what I mean??
?Pig or not pig, I?m still serving your noble cause.?
?And you haven?t really quit smoking.?
?I?m not into Aztec mushrooms, at least.?
?You only eat them, with a lot of mayonnaise.?
See, she has this thing with food that always fails my
comprehension. Thinks of eating as a sort of semiotic
act, a way of making profound statements about the
universe. 
?I miss you,? she says.
?I miss you too,? I say.


(c) 2000 Dan Khazar

*******


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From lorencfishta at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  8 00:07:38 2000
From: lorencfishta at yahoo.com (Lorenc Fishta)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:07:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Dhjete vjet me pas
Message-ID: <20001208050738.1261.qmail@web11103.mail.yahoo.com>


                Dhjete vjet me pas


	Dhjet? vjet me par? n? Shqip?ri ndodhi nje ngjarje e
shum?pritur prej gjys?m shekulli ? u fitua pluralizmi
partiak. Ky pluraliz?m erdhi si pasoj? e L?vizjes
Studentore q? filloi m? 8 Dhjetor 1990 ku student?t,
duke shfryt?zuar munges?n e dritave, u ngrit?n p?r t?
k?rkuar me k?mb?ngulje daljen e Shqip?ris? nga
err?sira dhe vetizolimi ku e kishte futur verb?risht
udh?heqja e PPSh-s?. Sistemit politik nj?partiak dhe
diktatur?s s? proletariatit u kishte kaluar koha ?
drejtimi I Shqip?ris? nga PPSh-ja dhe p?rpjekja p?r t?
nd?rtuar socializmin, kishin d?shtuar duke sjell?
pasoja katastrofike p?r vendin. Eksperimentet p?r t?
krijuar njeriun e ri dhe lufta e klasave ishin disa
nga krimet m? monstruoze q? ne si popull, provuam n?
kurrizin ton?. E pra, pik?risht ata q? p?rb?nin mas?n
m? shpres?dh?n?se t? njer?zve t? rinj ? student?t ?
dol?n n? demostrata dhe mitingje me k?rkesa politike,
nga t? cilat m? kryesorja ishte legalizimi I sistemit
shum?partiak politik, gj? q? rrjedhimisht do t? sillte
demokratizimin e jet?s n? vend. Ata nuk k?rkuan gj?
tjet?r ve?se ??Liri dhe Demokraci?? p?r popullin e
tyre. Student?t I parashtruan k?to k?rkesa n? m?nyr?
shum? dinjitoze dhe paq?sore, sepse ata ishin p?r
zev?nd?simin e sistemit t? vjet?ruar politik me nj?
tjet?r, q? mund t?I garantonte Shqip?ris? nj? t?
ardhme m? t? ndritur. Student?t nuk ishin p?r
shkat?rrimin e shtetit, p?r djegjen e institucioneve
apo p?r anarki dhe n? fakt asgj? e till? nuk ndodhi.
Ata d?rguan p?rfaq?sin? e tyre n? takimin me
Presidentin Alia, duke v?n? t? par?t n? praktik?
zgjedhjet e lira dhe demokratike ? p?rfaq?suesit
studentor? u zgjodh?n nga fakultetet p?rkat?se n? nj?
votim t? lir? e t? hapur q? Shqip?ria nuk e kish
provuar  prej 46 vitesh! Duke patur nj? p?rkrahje t?
gjer? popullore, ata e detyruan sekretarin e par? t?
PPSh-s? dhe Presidentin e RPSSh-s?, Ramiz Alia, I cili
vet?m dy-tre muaj m? par? e kishte quajtur pluralizmin
?? Kal? Troje??, t? dor?zohej. M? 11 Dhjetor 1990, n?
Shqip?ri u lejua zyrtarisht sistemi politk
shum?partiak! At? nat?, popullit shqiptar I?u rikthye
dinjiteti I n?p?rk?mbur dhe I?u hap rruga krijimit t?
partive t? ndryshme opozitare. 
	Sot, dhjet? vjet m? von?, student?t e Dhjetorit, n?
vend q? t? p?rkujtojn? me krenari nj? ngjarje t?
sh?nuar, jan? t? detyruar t? mbajn? zi p?r gjendjen e
mjeruar n? t? cil?n ndodhet Shqip?ria. N? Shqip?ri ka
54 parti politike, por politikan?t tan? nuk b?jn? gj?
tjet?r ve?se kacafyten p?r nj? cop? kolltuk. Askush
nuk p?rmend m? interesat e kombit ? q? t? gjith?
synojn? marrjen e pushtetit vet?m p?r interesat e tyra
vetjake dhe p?r p?rfitime materiale. Askush nuk
p?rmend m? ?? Me dialog dhe toleranc???, ??Me 
konsensus?? apo ??Opozitar? -- por v?llez?r??!
P?rkundrazi, p?rmenden tritoli, ruspat, heqjet e
imuniteteve, burgimet dhe k?rc?nimet me vdekje! Lufta
politike, zot?rinj politikan? nuk b?het m? rrug?ve me
mitingje apo revolta t? armatosura bandash! Lufta
politike duhet t? b?het n? Kuvendin e shqiptar?ve ? n?
Parlament ? sepse populli ju?a ka dh?n? vot?besimin
p?r t?ia mbrojtur interesat atje, dhe vet?m atje! T?
luftosh sot n? Shqip?ri p?r ?rr?njosjen e komunizmit
?sht? absurditet, sepse komunizmi n? Shqip?ri nuk
ekziston m? si vij? ideollogjike! Idealet dhe parimet
e komunizmit u shkel?n dhe mor?n fund q? n? momentin
kur sekretarit te pare Alia I?u rrembye e drejta per
te lejuar plurazmin, q? n? ?astin kur u rikthye prona
private dhe u vendos?n marr?dh?niet diplomatike me
SHBA-t?, q?kur u paraqit ekonomia e tregut n?
programin zgjedhor t? PPSh-s?, q? n? Kongresin e
nd?rrimit t? emrit n? Parti Socialiste, ku Drit?ro
Agolli kritikoi ashp?r babain shpirt?ror t?
komunist?ve shqiptar? ? Enver Hoxh?n! E si mund t?
ekzistoj? komunizmi n? Shqip?ri kur f?mij?t, dh?ndur?t
dhe krushqit e ish-an?tar?ve t? Byros? Politike, sot
jan? b?r? milioner? n? saj? t? kapitalizmit! Si mund
t? pretendosh se po lufton komunizmin, kur lufta duhet
t? filloj? nga vetvetja p?r t? ndryshuar mend?sin?
totalitare t? s? b?rit politik? dhe drejtimit t?
shtetit! ?sht? p?r t? ardhur me t? v?rtet? keq q?
politikan?t shqiptar?, si t? majt?, ashtu edhe t?
djatht?, humb?n ?astin historik p?r nd?rtimin e nj?
Shqip?rie t? begat? e me nj? shtet t? fuqish?m. ?sht?
p?r t? ardhur keq q? n? Shqip?ri u vra ajo shpres? e
cila lindi me aq mund, djers? e gjak n? ato dit? t?
ftohta dhjetori t? 90-t?s. T? pikon zemra gjak kur
mendon se politikan?t shqiptar? nuk gjejn? dot nj?
gjuh? t? p?rbashk?t e nuk ulen  t? merren vesh me
nj?ri-tjetrin p?r hir t? interesave t? kombit!
(vijon)


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From etoilelointaine at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  8 09:06:53 2000
From: etoilelointaine at hotmail.com (Etoile Lointaine)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:06:53 -0500
Subject: [Alb-club] Arlequin assassiné
Message-ID: <F268pH71yEXUIEAOeIi0000f542@hotmail.com>

Arlequin poignard?
Sur les quais du vieux Londres
L'enqu?te est mal conduite
Et Scotland Yard s'y perd
On a fouill? en vain la chambre
La dame de l'h?tel refuse de r?pondre
On recherche un vieux clown
Qui le soir du crime
R?parait sur les docks
Un cerceau en papier
Car en effet, lui seul pourrait
Nous r?v?ler quelle ?tait la chanson
Que chantait la victime
On a interrog? les amis du d?funt
Polichinelle ? Rome
Colombine ? Berlin
Et Pierrot, Pierrot qui faisait
Du ski ? Val d'Is?re
Tous trois ont r?pondu
D'un air un peu bizarre
Car ils savent d?j?
Que ce sera bient?t leur tour
Ils connaissent le nom du tueur de guitare
Mais pendant ce temps-l?
L'assassin court toujours
L'assassin court encore
Il s'appelle "chacun"...



P.S. The dream that the Beatles would reunite one day also died with the 
loss of John Lennon 20 years ago. I was young and I grew up on his music, 
and it has carried me through a lot in my life...

Etoile Lointaine

-------------------------------

There are places I remember
All my life, though some have changed,
Some forever, not for better,
Some have gone, and some remain -- The Beatles



_____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Era18 at aol.com  Fri Dec  8 10:15:23 2000
From: Era18 at aol.com (Era18 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 10:15:23 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub Story Project
Message-ID: <f5.5558cb0.2762550b@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/7/2000 4:40:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ydemneri at club-internet.fr writes:

<<  Duke respektuar propozimin tuaj po ju dergoj fillimin e
historise te cilen desheroj qe ta vazhdoje ERA.  >>

E, natyrisht, Era do ishte personi me i pershtatshem per te vazhduar nje 
histori qe qe ne fillim nis me nje pijanec, dhe si te mos mjaftonte kjo, 
jeton dhe me mamin...:)
Une po e vazhdoj megjithate, por kerkoj nje nder: A ka mundesi qe ai qe do e 
vazhdoje kete histori i katerti a i pesti t'ia kaloje Yllit prape, qe te mos 
kujtoje se "ia hudhi"  me ato dy rreshta?

--------------------------------------------------

Kur hapa deren e guzhines nuk doja qe nena ta kuptonte qe kisha pire. Ajo i
kishte zet ato qe pinin. Sapo isha ndare, (Y.D.) , pas njeqind tentativash te 
mehereshme, nga Andrea dhe ai bari i cuditshem ne perendim te qytetit, qe 
ishte dhe nje nga vendet me te papershtateshme per te elaboruar tema te 
komplikuara mbi kuptimshmerine  apo absurditetin e egzistences te races 
njerezore ( E di, jemi krejtesisht qesharake!) apo dilemen para njeriut 
modern (ku me "njeri modern" ne te dy qe me pare kemi rene dakord te kuptojme 
te gjithe brezat e lindur PASI Frojdi vendosi te na i ndricoje mendjet me 
teorite e tij simpatike, por perpara se te dilte kenga "hit" e Makarenes), 
apo per t'i vene ne dukje me taktin tone karakteristik njeri tjetrit se ne 
cfare deshtakesh pijanece perfunduam ne te dy ne krahasim me te gjithe 
ish-shoket e kursit tone qe thyen qafen keshtu si ne ne Evrope e Amerike sapo 
qe u be deti kos ne 90-ten. Dhe tema te kesaj natyre jane zakonisht fare te 
pashmangeshme midis meje dhe tij, sidomos kur nuk gjen asnje njeri te hajrit 
qe te flirtosh perreth.
Por do ishte fare mizore tani ne kete ore kaq te vone dhe kur mezi i terhoqa 
kembet zvarre gjer lart pasi i kisha uruar nate te mire Andreas (i cili andej 
nga fundi jo vetem filloi te me ngjante tmerresisht shume me Salvador Dali-ne 
por edhe me degjohej si ai) te gelltisja nje leksion me teper te mamase mbi 
demet qe alkoholi i ben zemres dhe se sa pak e kuptoja une rendesine e 
shendetit dhe konkretisht te organit ne fjale [zemres] qe me sa duket, sipas 
mamase, po qe se funksionoka mire ti mundke te kesh nje jete te gjate e te 
vazhdoke te marresh pension per shume vjet me rradhe pavaresisht se organeve 
te tjera te trupit tend mund t'iu kene rene baterite e te enden hallakatur 
brenda organizmit tend pa u kujtuar dot se cilat funksione trupore kryejne. 
Sado qe une te perpiqem t'i shpjegoj asaj se une vertet nuk jam nje njeri 
perfekt (ne fakt, as qe mundem te mendoj qe perfeksioni te jete arritur ne 
kete bote, me perjashtim mbase te rastit te paranoies qe ka tezja ime e cila 
beson se ia kane mbushur apartamentin me aparatura pergjimi) dhe se mund te 
kem dhe ndonje "ves" aty-ketu, ajo nuk do te me lere pa me bere ta degjoj cka 
per te thene deri ne fund. Keshtu qe i mermerita me shpejtesi ate ?"pse me 
pret zgjuar deri kaq vone?!" te zakonshme dhe hyra ne dhomen time e rashe 
permbys mbi krevat me gjithe rroba...ose te pakten kete konstatova kur u 
zgjova qull ne djerse ndaj te zbardhur, ne nje gjendje pak si te tronditur 
nga nje enderr e cuditshme qe vertet me....

----------------------------------------------------

A do kishte mundesi ta vazhdonte Lulzim Shtino?

P.S. Nuk besoj se personazhi qe rrefen ne veten e pare ka marre akoma 
gjiinine e duhur...Dua te them qe une s'pata guximin te merrja pergjegjesine 
qe ta bej mashkull apo femer, dhe duhet t'i kem lene opsionet hapur per 
Lulken...ose per ate qe do e vazhdoje.


From ydemneri at club-internet.fr  Fri Dec  8 11:35:38 2000
From: ydemneri at club-internet.fr (demneri)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:35:38 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] vetem per Eren
Message-ID: <B656CC6A.F14%ydemneri@club-internet.fr>

Faleminderit Era
Se kisha kohe pa qeshur ( e kam fjalen per hyrjen tende)
Te propozova ty se isha kurioz se si do ta vazhdonte ate fillim nje vajze.
Por mund te ishe shmangur p.sh :
......sapo isha ndare nga...
Vetem kaq ishte shkruar mbi fleten e nje blloku te hedhur poshte
krevatit...(te viktimes apo te X) etj.etj.
apo : ....sapo isha ndare nga...
Aty nderpritej monologu i tij. Degjoheh vetem zhurma e shiritit te
manjetofonit qe.. etj.etj;
Te kuptohemi keto shembuj ti shkruaj per tu justifikuar dhe qe ti te me
besosh qe nuk e kam patur me te keq.
Dhe tani qe po te shkruaj vazhdoj te qesh sepse te imagjinoj duke me
mallkuar per zgjdhjen qe bera.
Nuk kam dashur t'ia hedh me ato dy rrjeshta. Me qellim shkrova dy rrjeshta
dhe pa asnje perpjekje per stil, per te mos i frikesuar te tjeret. E nisa ne
veten e pare duke menduar se eshte me e lehte . (megjithese kjo varet)
Te pershendes
dhe te falenderoj per humorin se fale teje kjo liste ka here pas here nota
njerzore.
Ylli





From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  8 13:58:40 2000
From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:58:40 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Yugosllavia me prane ne BE
Message-ID: <F22iyhGvDpEDiOa7ddh000088ec@hotmail.com>

Para ca kohe, kur shqiperia voti pro Yugosllavise per ne OSBE, shkruajta nje 
E-mail qe Yugosllavia do futet perpara nesh ne BE dhe do jemi ne ato qe do 
t'i lutemi jugosllavise per voten e Yugosllavise per ne BE.

Pavaresisht se E-maili im u quajt disi vulgar (nga moderatori) shumica e 
shqiptareve nuk kuptojne se vulgare eshte situata ku vet ne shqiptaret jemi 
futur dhe nuk jane vulgare ato qe pershkruajne ate ashtu sic eshte.

Dikush tha qe Balkani eshte katandisur aq keq sepse ka shume veta qe 
mendojne si une (glaus tirana), por per ironi del qe ato vende qe zbatuan 
nje hard line pro nacionalizmit  jane ato vende me prane ne BE, persa kohe 
qe e kane ekonomite te fuqishme.

Cudi heh, sepse edhe Mejdani u zhgenjue ne samitin e kroacise ! (nuk qenka e 
drejta e njeriut por fuqia e dollarit !!!!)

Historikisht na kane quajtur popull qe s'dime te qeverisim, shpresoj qe keto 
te jene leksionet e para per partizanet e drejtave te ariut.

Bullgaret dhe rumunet pune muajsh dhe nuk do duan me viza per ne BE. 
Hungarezet e ceket kane shume me teper privilegje, biles keta nuk duan vize 
as per New Zealand.

Je jemi futur ne nje kafaz  mjerimi shume dimensional ku i madh e vogel 
deshiron te iki prej shqiperie.

Pavaresisht se kemi 10 vjet ne 'demokraci' jemi shume me larg per ne BE sesa 
Yugosllavia qe ka 10 vjet lufte dhe as 10 muaj 'demokraci'.

Lexoni me poshte ju lutem=====>>

NISE - Jugosllavia dhe Kroacia jan? dy kandidat? potencial? p?r n? BE. Sipas 
agjencis? s? lajmeve SRNA duke iu referuar takimit t? lider?ve t? BE n? Nise 
"jan? mir?pritur ndryshimet n? Jugosllavi dhe Kroaci duke I par? ato si 
kandidat?t e mundshme p?r n? Bashkimin Evropian". Lider?t e BE kan? 
deklaruar sot se "ata do t? ndihmojn? vendet e tjera e Ballkanit p?r tu 
integruar ne Evrop?". ad/mi (BalkanWeb)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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From kbejko at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  8 15:02:34 2000
From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 20:02:34 -0000
Subject: [Alb-club] Shqiperia edhe rrezikon BE
Message-ID: <LC8-LFD91ekVgKMy5KI00000d65@hotmail.com>

08.12.2000

(shqiperia edhe nje here rrezikon te mos perfshihet ne marreveshjen e 
'shoqerimit' ne BE)

MAPE edhe gjasht? muaj t? tjer? n? Shqip?ri

P?rfaq?suesi i BE p?r politik?n e jashtme dhe t? siguris? s? p?rbashk?t 
Javier Solana deklaroi para asambles? s? BE se misioni Mape n? Shqip?ri do 
te zgjatet edhe gjasht? muaj t? tjer?. Gjat? debateve q? u zhvilluan n? k?t? 
asamble, u diskutua edhe p?r situat?n e rendit. Dy parlamentar?t britanik? 
autor? t? raportit p?r Shqip?rin? deklaruan nd?r t? tjera se p?rderisa 
ekonomia, institucionet dhe rendi nuk do t? funksionojn? si duhet, nuk do t? 
jet? e mundur arritja e nje marr?veshjeje asociimi dhe stabiliteti t? 
Shqip?ris? me BE, si? ?sht? parapar? n? paktin e stabilititetit p?r 
Ballkanin.


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From afortuzi at bluewin.ch  Fri Dec  8 15:06:43 2000
From: afortuzi at bluewin.ch (Adrian Fortuzi)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:06:43 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Rregjistrimi i fese ne Shqiperi
References: <LC2-LFD133t3pFpC9f90000009b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ff01c06152$a85db560$2a4803d5@pcle035>

> PS: Feja dhe kombesia nuk do te regjistrohen

Keto dite ne Zvicer po zhvillohet regjistrimi i popullsise. Cdo familje merr
nje formular me poste nga Zyra Federale e Statistikave.
Qellimi eshte "nje fotografi e popullsise Zviceriane me 5 dhjetor 2000".
Rezultatet mund te jene interesante edhe per sa i perket komunitetit
Shqiptar ne Zvicer.   Regjistrimet ne Zvicer behen cdo 10 vjet dhe ne keto
20-30 vitet e fundit komuniteti i huaj me me shumice ka qene Italian i
pasuar nga ai Spanjoll dhe Portugez.
Por kete 10 vjecarin e fundit mendohet (ne baze te statistikave te ndryshme)
qe vendin e pare e ze komuniteti Shqiptar (99 % Kosove, 1 % Shqiperi per
mendimin tim).  Dicka qe mua me pelqeu ne menyren sesi formularet ishin
krijuar ishte fakti qe per cdo person kerkohej nenshtetesia ose
nenshtetesite por edhe gjuha e nenes, si dhe gjuhet e tjera qe cdo person
perdor ne pune, shkolle etj. Kjo ben qe kosovaret te konsiderohen si
komunitet Shqiptar duke u dalluar keshtu nga Serbet, Boshnjaket,Kroatet
etj... banore te ish Jugosllavise.
Formularet u shperndane ne 4 gjuhet zyrtare te Zvicres, qe jane gjermanisht,
frengjisht, italisht dhe romanche, por mund ti kerkoje edhe ne afersisht 30
gjuhe te tjera duke perfshire edhe Shqipen. Bile ne Shqip kishte nje Hotline
ne dispozicion. Po ashtu ne shume komuna jepej mundesia te beje regjistrimin
nepermjet Internetit.
Per sa i perket pyetjeve mbi perkatesine fetare ato
konsistonin vetem ne faktin se ne cilen bashkesi fetare personi ne fjale
bente pjese. Pra nuk kerkohej te dihej nese dikush ishte besimtar apo jo por
vetem nese ai ben pjese ne nje bashkesi fetare te njohur ne Zvicer dhe kjo
vetem per qellime fiskale.  Shteti i shperndan kishave te ndryshme nje pjese
te taksave kishtare mbi bazen e ketyre te dhenave por sidoqofte ky sistem
eshte shume i komplikuar sepse nje pjese e popullsise paguajne direkt per
nje kishe te caktuar (katolike ose protestante) etj...
Regjistrimi eshte i detyrueshem, moskryerja denohet me gjobe.
Pyetje interesante ishin edhe ato mbi kohen qe cdo njeri i kushton
aktiviteteve sociale, vullnetare qe nuk jane te paguara, vendbanimi para 5
vjeteve, per te njohur shkallen e levizshmerise se popullsise etj...
Kesaj rradhe rregjistrimi ka kushtuar rreth 150 milion Frs (100 milion $),
ndersa rregjistrimi i ardheshem mendohet se do te automatizohet krejtesisht.
Te dhenat do te merren pas nje unifikimi te standardeve ne rregjistrat e
gjendjes civile ne cdo komune. Pra ne cdo cast eshte (do te jete) e mundur
te dihet me saktesi perberja e popullsise Zviceriane.

Kaq per rregjistrimin ne Zvicer.
Do te isha kurioz te dija se cpo behet ne Shqiperi. Si po zhvillohet ? Cilat
jane pyetjet ne formulare ?

Gruss,
Salut,
Ciao,
?? Romanche nuk e di ??
Te fala,

Adrian Fortuzi














From AlbanianFestival at aol.com  Fri Dec  8 15:16:51 2000
From: AlbanianFestival at aol.com (AlbanianFestival at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:16:51 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] REMINDER: Albanian Festival This Weekend
Message-ID: <22.edd451a.27629bb3@aol.com>


Just a reminder that the 10th Annual Albanian Festival is being held this 
weekend.

Sunday December 10, 2000
Lehman Center for the Performing Arts
Lehman College
250 Bedford Park Boulevard, Bronx, NY

Tickets are $10, $12, and $15, and may either be purchased at the door, or 
for the best seats purchase in advance by calling John at 718-733-6400 or 
Prek at 718-231-0300.

Or email AlbanianFestival at aol.com for more information.

Some of this year's performers are (in no particular order):
Eli Fara
Gezim Nika
Vjollca Luka
Bukurije Funici
REMI
Anita Bitri
Mimoza Gjikola
Sali Mani
Arenc Leka
Xhevahir Zeneli
Bashkimi Kombetar
Patterson Dance Group
Rozafati Dance Group
AASO from Michigan
Xhevat Kukaj
Prenk Mrishaj
Vasil Marku
Alberti
Alfred Popaj
Neli Behar
Fredrik Noci
David Stanaj
Elina Duni
Ornela Zela
Besim Muriqi
Anida Noci
plus many others and a special surprise ending to the show...

This is the largest Albanian event in the United States, more artists and 
more people attending than any other event. ??For more info, email 
AlbanianFestival at aol.com



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From lorencfishta at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  8 16:31:28 2000
From: lorencfishta at yahoo.com (Lorenc Fishta)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:31:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Dhjete vjet me pas
Message-ID: <20001208213128.60371.qmail@web11108.mail.yahoo.com>

Student?t e Dhjetorit jan? t? zhg?njyer, sepse populli
shqiptar ?sht? I zhg?njyer dhe I marr? n?p?rk?mb?. Ata
nuk e kishin menduar kurr? se t? duash ta b?sh
Shqip?rin? si gjith? Europa, do t? thot? t?
eksperimentosh mbi kurrizin e popullit t? varf?r
piramido-kapitalizmin! Ata nuk e kishin p?rfytyruar
kurr? vendin e vet si nj? ankand gjigand ku ?do gj?
dhe gjithkush ?sht? n? shitje, nj? treg ku po b?hen
pazarll?qe dhe shpenzimet I heq populli I st?rvuajtur!
Student?t e Dhjetorit nuk ishin p?r vazhdimin e luft?s
s? klasave, p?rkundrazi ata d?shironin mbylljen e
plag?ve t? s? kaluar?s, edhe pse xhelat?t e diktatur?s
akoma edhe sot e k?saj dite nuk kan? k?rkuar falje p?r
krimet e tyre! Student?t e Dhjetorit d?shironin ta
shihnin fshatarin shqiptar me tok?n e vet, ku ai t?
mbillte prodhime bujq?sore dhe jo bim? narkotike! Ata
donin ta ?lironin popullin nga prangat e diktatur?s
dhe jo t?I kthenin shqiptar?t n? tregtar? modern?
skllev?rish t? klandestin?ve dhe hallexhijve t? bot?s!
Student?t e Dhjetorit I quajt?n vajzat studente --
motrat e tyre -- duke I mbrojtur nga shkopinjt? e
gom?s s? sambist?ve dhe nuk e kishin pritur q? nj?
dit? motrat e tyre do t? mbushnin trotuaret e Europ?s
duke k?naqur epshet e t? huajve! N? qoft? se nj? dit?
do t? hynim n? bashk?sin? e familjeve europiane, do t?
duhej t? hynim ball?lart? dhe krenar?, ashtu si? e
kemi patur p?r zakon, dhe jo me gomone e viza fallco!
Pashaporta boj?kafe e Republik?s s? Shqip?ris? duhet
t? ishte nder dhe jo objekt turpi! T? qenurit shqiptar
duhet t? ishte krenari dhe jo mohim I vetvetes, vet?m
sepse akoma nuk kemi nj? shtet t? fuqish?m me
diplomat? t? aft? p?r t? na mbrojtur dinjitetin ton?
komb?tar!  Politikan?t shqiptar? duhet t? ken? nj? gj?
parasysh: dinjiteti I shqiptarit dhe interesat e
kombit nuk shiten, sepse nuk kan? ?mim! Nuk mund t?
lejohet q? Greqia t?I marr? p?rpara shqip?tar?t si
bag?ti e t?I vras? si lepuj n?p?r malet e fushat e
Ballkanit! Nuk futet Shqip?ria n? Lidhjen e Vendeve
Islamike duke I fryr? ndasive fetare, sepse ajo e ka
vendin e vet n? Europ?! Nuk I jepet vota e pranimit n?
OSBE Jugosllavis?, sepse Kosova I ka syt? dhe shpres?n
tek shteti am?! Nuk I shtr?ngohet dora Milloshevi?it
apo pasuesve t? tij, sepse ajo ?sht? e lar? me gjak
shqiptari, more zot?rinj politikan?! Nuk mund t?
deklarohet se Shqip?ria duhet t? b?het Protektorat I
Italis?, kur ne I kemi hedhur italian?t n? det q? m?
1920-t?n! Nuk mund t? etiketohen SHBA-t?, her? miq e
her? armiq si? ua do interesi vetjak apo partiak
disave. Ne kemi nevoj? p?r miq dhe aleat? t? v?rtet?
dhe jo p?r lidhje mafioz?sh! A nuk mund t? gjejn?
politikan?t shqiptar? nj? zgjidhje dhe nj? bashk?punim
tolerant me nj?ri-tjetrin p?r hir t? p?rparimit t?
vendit? Fundja, jemi q? t? gjith? shqiptar?, flasim t?
nj?jt?n gjuh? dhe n? deje na rrjedh po I nj?jti gjak!
	Sot populli shqiptar ?sht? n? pik? t? hallit, sepse
kushtet ekonomike dhe politike jan? r?nduar
tmerr?sisht. Ku jan? investimet e huaja q? u premtuan
me aq buj? nga qeverit? e majta dhe t? djathta? Ku
shkojn? milionat q? nxirren n? vend? Depozitohen n?p?r
bankat e bot?s apo iu bashkangjiten lumit t? parave t?
pista q? qarkullojn? n?p?r vend me synim shum?fishimin
e fitimit? P?rse nuk kujdesen milioner?t e rinj
shqiptar? p?r hapjen e vendeve t? pun?s apo nd?rtimin
e shkollave? P?rse nuk ndalohet hemoragjia e
inteligjenc?s shqiptare? P?rse duhet q? f?mij?t tan?
t? shesin cigare apo banane p?r t? mbijetuar, t?
ngujohen n?p?r kulla nga frika e gjakmarrjes, n? vend
q? t? shkojn? e t? shkollohen? P?rse duhet q? k?tyre
f?mij?ve t?u vritet prap? shpresa dhe t? humbin
pafajshm?rin? f?minore? 
Akoma m? i zymt? b?het realiteti kur mendon se edhe
sot, pas dhjet? vjet?sh tranzicion, Shqip?ria nuk ka
drita, m? keq se ??ishte n? Dhjetor t? 90-t?s! ?far?
cinizmi nga ana e atyre q? drejtojn? at? vend!
Zot?rinj politikan? dhe milioner? t? rinj, mund t?
vij? nj? dit? n? t? ardhmen e af?rt q? populli I
varf?r dhe pa shpres?, t? shpraz? mbi ju mllefin
shum?vje?ar t? vuajtjes dhe mjerimit! Kini kujdes, se
po luani me zjarrin!
	 ?far? mund t? b?jm? sot ne, ish-student?t e
Dhjetorit? Nuk jemi m? dhe aq naiv? si dikur, 20-22
vje?ar? q? mendonim t? jepnim jet?n p?r nj? ideal.
Jeta na ka rrahur shum? e na ka m?suar leksione t?
ndryshme nga ato t? Universitetit t? Tiran?s. Por kudo
q? mund t? na ken? hedhur dallg?t e jet?s, nj? gj? ka
mbetur e pandryshuar: dashuria p?r at? vend dhe p?r
at? popull! A nuk do t? ishte mir? sikur q? t? gjith?
t? bashkonim forcat dhe dijet q? kemi mbledhur me aq
mund e djers? e t?I vinim n? sh?rbim t? atij populli
q? dikur na quajti heronj? A nuk do t? ishte mir?
sikur ta fshinim korrupsionin dhe loj?rat e ndyra
politike e t?I zev?ndsonim me ndershm?rin? dhe
vetmohimin p?r t? mir?n e Shqip?ris?? Ju b?jm? thirrje
q? t? gjith? student?ve dhe pedagog?ve t? Dhjetorit,
q? t? gjith? shqiptar?ve, q? t? p?rpiqen me ?do kusht
p?r nj? q?llim t? vet?m ? p?r ngritjen e nj? shteti t?
fort? p?r t? gjith? bashk?kombasit dhe p?r ringjalljen
e shpres?s, sepse ajo tok? ?sht? toka jon? dhe vet?m
ne si shqiptar?, mund ta b?jm? t? begat?, n? m?nyr? q?
t? jetojm? q? t? gjith? aty, duke vjelur frutet e
?mbla t? shqiptarizmit! Ia kemi borxh vetes dhe ia
kemi borxh Shqip?ris?, sepse dikur, dhjet? vjet m?
par?, I kemi premtuar se do ta b?jm? t? lir? e
demokratike, t? pavarur e t? barabart? me pjes?n
tjet?r t? Europ?s. 


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From AlbanianFestival at aol.com  Fri Dec  8 17:01:10 2000
From: AlbanianFestival at aol.com (AlbanianFestival at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:01:10 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] REMINDER: Albanian Festival This Weekend
Message-ID: <14.cb313a7.2762b426@aol.com>

Sorry, looks like we forgot to put the time.  The festival starts at 6pm 
sharp .  Doors open at 5pm.

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From Dritan68 at aol.com  Fri Dec  8 18:51:38 2000
From: Dritan68 at aol.com (Dritan68 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:51:38 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Dhjete vjet me pas
Message-ID: <6f.e1ef01b.2762ce0a@aol.com>

Student?t e Dhjetorit jan? t? zhg?njyer, sepse populli
 shqiptar ?sht? I zhg?njyer dhe I marr? n?p?rk?mb?. Ata
 nuk e kishin menduar kurr? se t? duash ta b?sh
 Shqip?rin? si gjith? Europa, do t? thot? t?
 eksperimentosh mbi kurrizin e popullit t? varf?r
 piramido-kapitalizmin!>>
Une sapo po kthehem nga Shqiperia , kete e-mail po e shkruaj nga aeroporti i Zurich.Gjate ketyre 10 vjeteve pati shume gabime , njerezit kaluan strese te tmerrshme pa qene nevoja.Njerezit qe takova dukeshin te stresuar dhe te plakur para kohe por situata ishte permiresuar ndjeshem ne krahasim me 97'. Bisnesi po zhvillohej megjithese me veshtiresi prej mungeses se kredive apo infrastuktures te pazhvilluar, por ne pergjithesi gjerat werer looking up.E pergjithshmja ishte qe individet sot  ne Shqiperi jetojne me mire se disa vjet me pare, ndersa shteti eshte po ai qe ka qene mos me keq.Megjithate une jam optimist dhe shoh drite ne fund te tunelit.Me ato ndertime qe ishin kryer ne Shqiperi gjate ketyre tre viteve te fundit sipas nje llogaritje konservative i bie qe bisnesment shqiptare te posedojne kapitale likuide me vlere prej 500-750 milione dollare ne mos me teper.Kjo do te ndihmoje ne financimin e ekonomise dhe te hapjen e fronteve te punes ne tre deri pese vjetet e ardhshem.Rrogat ishin rritur ne pergjithe
si , ishte rritur cilesia e industrise se sherbimeve.Ndertimet e reja ishin cilesore megjithese fatkeqesisht te keqvendosura pa persepektive urbanistike.Rrogat 300-400 dollareshe ishin me te shpeshta se tre vjet me pare.Me kryesorja ishte qe njerezit kishin koncepte me te mira per bisnesin nevojen e nje shteti te forte,dhe nuk ishin te polarizuar ne te majte e te djathte .Ata donin vetem rend e qetesi dhe sundim ligji.Tensioni politik shkaktohej vetem nga disa koka ne te dyja krahet qe tani nuk luftonin me per ideale por vetem per  hakmarrje personale.Nga Shqiperia u largova megjithate zemerthyer per shkak te situates sime personale , vajta atje sepse nena ime vdiq papritur nga nje atak zemre.Keto pershtypje udhetimi po i shkruaj thjesht sa per te informuar ata qe s'kane qene atje per nje kohe te gjate.


From ETIRANA at aol.com  Fri Dec  8 20:35:53 2000
From: ETIRANA at aol.com (ETIRANA at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:35:53 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] 10 vjetori i Levizjes Studentore
Message-ID: <ba.e8a1b46.2762e679@aol.com>

10 VJETORI I LEVIZJES STUDENTORE


    Te dashur bashkatdhetare,

Me rastin e 10 vjetorit te fillimit te Levizjes Studentore te Dhjetorit 1990, 
organizohet nje mbremje perkujtimore. Ftohen te marrin pjese qe te gjithe ata 
qe jane te interesuar ne perkujtimin e kesaj ngjarje te shenuar.  Mbremja do 
te mbahet ne Manhattan me date 9 Dhjetor 2000, ne ora 18.00 ne kete adrese: 
126 - 11 Avenue, 2-nd Floor, midis rrugeve 20 dhe 21.


From LulzimShtino at aol.com  Fri Dec  8 22:57:32 2000
From: LulzimShtino at aol.com (LulzimShtino at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:57:32 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub Story Project (3)
Message-ID: <dd.d34ca23.276307ac@aol.com>

Kur hapa deren e guzhines nuk doja qe nena ta kuptonte qe kisha pire. Ajo i 
kishte zet ata qe pinin. Sapo isha ndare, (Y.D.) , pas njeqind tentativash te 
mehereshme, nga Andrea dhe ai bari i cuditshem ne perendim te qytetit, qe 
ishte dhe nje nga vendet me te papershtateshme per te elaboruar tema te 
komplikuara mbi kuptimshmerine  apo absurditetin e egzistences te races 
njerezore ( E di, jemi krejtesisht qesharake!) apo dilemen para njeriut 
modern (ku me "njeri modern" ne te dy qe me pare kemi rene dakord te kuptojme 
te gjithe brezat e lindur PASI Frojdi vendosi te na i ndricoje mendjet me 
teorite e tij simpatike, por perpara se te dilte kenga "hit" e Makarenes), 
apo per t'i vene ne dukje me taktin tone karakteristik njeri tjetrit se ne 
cfare deshtakesh pijanece perfunduam ne te dy ne krahasim me te gjithe 
ish-shoket e kursit tone qe thyen qafen keshtu si ne ne Evrope e Amerike sapo 
qe u be deti kos ne 90-ten. Dhe tema te kesaj natyre jane zakonisht fare te 
pashmangeshme midis meje dhe tij, sidomos kur nuk gjen asnje njeri te hajrit 
qe te flirtosh perreth.

Por do ishte fare mizore tani ne kete ore kaq te vone dhe kur mezi i terhoqa 
kembet zvarre gjer lart pasi i kisha uruar nate te mire Andreas (i cili andej 
nga fundi jo vetem filloi te me ngjante tmerresisht shume me Salvador Dali-ne 
por edhe me degjohej si ai) te gelltisja nje leksion me teper te mamase mbi 
demet qe alkoholi i ben zemres dhe se sa pak e kuptoja une rendesine e 
shendetit dhe konkretisht te organit ne fjale [zemres] qe me sa duket, sipas 
mamase, po qe se funksionoka mire ti mundke te kesh nje jete te gjate e te 
vazhdoke te marresh pension per shume vjet me rradhe pavaresisht se organeve 
te tjera te trupit tend mund t'iu kene rene baterite e te enden hallakatur 
brenda organizmit tend pa u kujtuar dot se cilat funksione trupore kryejne. 

Sado qe une te perpiqem t'i shpjegoj asaj se une vertet nuk jam nje njeri 
perfekt (ne fakt, as qe mundem te mendoj qe perfeksioni te jete arritur ne 
kete bote, me perjashtim mbase te rastit te paranoies qe ka tezja ime e cila 
beson se ia kane mbushur apartamentin me aparatura pergjimi) dhe se mund te 
kem dhe ndonje "ves" aty-ketu, ajo nuk do te me lere pa me bere ta degjoj cka 
per te thene deri ne fund. Keshtu qe i mermerita me shpejtesi ate  "pse me 
pret zgjuar deri kaq vone?!" te zakonshme dhe hyra ne dhomen time e rashe 
permbys mbi krevat me gjithe rroba...ose te pakten kete konstatova kur u 
zgjova qull ne djerse ndaj te zbardhur, ne nje gjendje pak si te tronditur 
nga nje enderr e cuditshme qe vertet [deri ketu ERA] me kishte futur friken 
ne palce, megjithese une nuk jam nga ata qe frikesohem lehte, sidomos pasi i 
kthej nja dy-tri dopjo uzo shqeto me ate Salvador Daline e Llakatundit, qe 
meqe ra fjala nuk eshte as shqiptar fare, por vllah per koken e vllahut (sic 
e kam sqaruar ne nje histori tjeter). Shihja ne enderr sikur kisha rene rob i 
nje fisi ilir nga ata te lashtet fare, qe i faleshin diellit, dhive te egra 
dhe Malit me Gropa, dhe keta iliret me kishin lidhur me litare kerpi mire e 
bukur si sallam suxhuk, me kishin vene ne mes te nje livadhi me trendelina, 
dhe nje nga me pleqte e fisit sec po trazonte ca barishte ne nje kusi te 
madhe prej bakri qe valonte mbi zjarrin bubulak. Nuk e paskesha ditur qe 
iliret paskeshin qene antropofage, sa gjera na i kane mbajtur te fshehta 
xhanem! I pari i fisit, qe e kishte emrin Bato, dhe qe me ishte veshur si 
Mirush Kabashi te "Apologjia e vertete e Sokratit," m'u afrua prane duke 
tymosur pak marihuane, dhe me tha: "C'behesh merak a i vrare, te gjithe, te 
lare e te palare, ne muzeume do te perfundojme." 

Po une sa e kam filluar jeten," i thashe, "bile akoma nuk e kam te qarte nese 
mund te quhet jete kjo qe kam filluar, apo jo." "S'te vjen turp, edhe paske 
pire, pa le!" u nxeh Xha Batoja, kur i mberriti duhma e frymes sime prej 
sarhoshi. Pastaj u ngrit nje plak tjeter - se keta iliret qenkeshin te gjithe 
pleq, ose te pakten shumica (me vone e mora vesh se te rinjte nuk e vinin 
mishin ne goje, as palcen)  - dhe tha: "Xha Bato, po ketij agait i eshte 
qelbur mishi fare nga te piret, do te na shkojne dem gjithe keto ereza qe 
mezi i mblodhen grate maleve, se zhapat e ketij as macoket e plehrave nuk do 
t'i begenisin, se kuterbon si shpella ku zien rakine Batoja i Teto Rakipes." 
"Po si thua ti Bato efendi," i tha Xha Batoja ketij Batos tjeter, "ta leme te 
ike e te thyeje qafen?" "Le te ike, fundja, se gjynah eshte. Dhe le t'u 
tregoje te veteve se c'ka pare ketu." 

Keto mbaja mend nga endrra, kur me doli gjumi. Me kruhej gjithe trupi nga te 
djersiturit (ne mos nga uthulla ku me kishin kredhur gjate marinimit ose 
balsamosjes fare), le kembet qe me ishin bere turshi fare, mbyllur ne kepucet 
me qafa. Sec ishte edhe nje si gje qe me gervishtte ne gjoks, tamam si thua i 
vrazhde ariu, me siguri do te me ishte ngaterruar neper rroba ajo kruajtesja 
e dhembeve prej alumini te anodizuar qe e mbaj gjithnje me vete, sidomos ne 
xhepin e kemishes me kuadrata qe vesh kur shkoj te pi ndonje gote me shoket, 
zakonisht te premteve mbrema ne krye te muajit. Teksa matesha ta hiqja qe 
andej, ngriva: me preken gishtat nje objekt te panjohur - nje varese. C'te 
ishte kjo varese? Kur kisha mbajtur ndonje varese une? Kush ma kishte varur, 
dhe pse? Si ishte puna qe nuk e mbaja mend? Kaq shume te isha dehur? Me shume 
zor, arrita ta ngre perpara syve, qe ta shihja, mirepo ne dhome ishte akoma 
gjysmerresire, dhe vetem munda te shquaj nje si gje te bardhe, me shume si 
nofull e shkeputur kabuleci, ose si guaske e atyre kacaminjve te detit qe i 
nxjerr ndonjehere vala ne breg, gje me e shpifur nuk behet, me siguri ishte 
ndonje rreng qe me kishte luajtur ndonje nga ato koketat qe na takuan kur 
ishim me Andrean, se mua sikur kishte filluar pak te me turbullonte atehere, 
po c'te ishte ky kacamill keshtu? Me dore te dredhur, ndeza abazhurin, dhe 
kur m'u mesuan syte me driten, i hodha nje veshtrim rishtaz. Kesaj radhe, 
frika me hyri ne palce edhe me thelle sesa me kishte hyre ne enderr. Kisha 
fjetur duke mbajtur te varur ne qafe nje dhemballe njeriu. Po, po, dhemballe, 
goxha te beshme, nga ato me kater rrenje te shtrembera, qe m'i kishte te 
katerta pakez te skuqura te majat, dukej qarte qe ia kishin shkulur dikujt 
per se gjalli, nuk ishte nga ato reliket qe i mbajne neper xhepa studentet e 
mjekesise per te trembur gjimnazistet, dhe ketu nuk durova dot pa e kaluar 
gjuhen nje here pergjate dhemballeve te mia, qe i kisha te gjitha ne vend, te 
forta e te plota, se une nga dhembet i kam ngjare gjyshit ndjese paste, qe 
deri diten qe i ra ajo e paemra vinin e merrnin dentistet per demonstrime te 
kafazit te gojes te homo sapiens, mirepo edhe kjo dhemballa qe me kishin 
varur mua ne qafe nuk kishte shenja kariesi per be, vinte vertet si e 
verdheme, po ama e dyste dhe pa njolla, me siguri i kishte perkitur nje 
njeriu qe kujdesej per dhembet - ne c'rast Salvador Llakatundi perjashtohej, 
sepse ky i kishte kaq te demtuara katarroshet, saqe nje here qe u kandis te 
vente tek dentisti, e nxoren nga krahu drejt e perjashta, dhe i thane qe te 
mos dukej me prape pa avokatin ...

Ia kaloj stafeten PIFTOS (se ky ua gjen anen dhemballeve).

(L. Sh.)


From meacu at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  9 00:44:05 2000
From: meacu at yahoo.com (bato ipare)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] mbasditja e nje te hene
Message-ID: <20001209054405.24088.qmail@web3502.mail.yahoo.com>


 Sapo vura kembet ne prag, nje nga banakieret, me nje
shprehje sikur po vazhdonte nje bisede te lene
pergjysem pak me pare, mu drejtua duke me pyetur- "te
zakonshmen?", dhe me dy gishtat e pare te dores se
djathte beri shenjen e filxhanit te kafes. Hodha syte
rreth e perqark. Salla ishte pothuajse bosh. Vetem ne
nje cep, afer televizorit, nje cift i ulur me nga nje
gote perpara, flisnin te afruar ne veshet e njeri
tjetrit. Lokali ku kisha hyre ishte bari i preferuar i
imi. Se pse e preferoja me shume se te tjeter,
asnjehere s`e kisha marre vesh. Rruga ishte plot me
lokale te tilla. Ca ishin me te medhenj, ca me te
bukur e me luksoz, por aty, ne ate bar, ndjehesha me
mire. Nga brenda ishte i lyer me ngjyre te kuqe e cila
nuk shkonte fare me mjedisin me pasqyra te medha dhe
me paisjet e metalike te vendosura nga banaku e tutje.
Vetem dyshemeje me kuadrate si tabele shahu sikur
perpiqesh te mbante ne nje vend dy te kundertat, dhe
krijonte nje lloj harmonie qe te jepte ne vetvete ate
ndjenjen e intimitetit, e cila eshte per mua, gjeja
kryesore qe duhet per tu ndjere mire ne nje vend.
Fasada e jashtme e lokalit ishte me se ordinere. E
vetmja gje qe binte ne sy ishte reklama e dukshme qe
tregonte se aty mund te gjeje qe nga pica e deri tek
akulloret italiane dhe se s`do te ngeleshe i zhgenjyer
po ti provoje. Megjithese cmimet ishin ca me te larta
nga mesatarja, aty me te vertete hahesh mire. Edhe
kafen e benin pa hile. I zoti i barit mburresh
vazhdimisht qe kafja e bere nga ai ishte me e mire se
gjetke sepse ai perziente lloje te ndryshme te kafeve
simbas nje formule qe e kishte vetem ai. Dhe klientet
qofte te rinj apo ata te perhershmit, aprovonin me
koke dhe nganjehere ndodhte qe dikush pyeste mbi
sekretin e kesaj mishele.
Me se fundi mora gazeten e dites dhe me pak zhurme u
ula ne nje cep afer xhamit te madh qe te ndante me
rrugen. Kamarjeri, me "te zakonshmen" ne dore, mu
afrua pa u ngutur, vuri filxhanin mbi tavoline dhe mu
drejtua:
-He c`kemi!
-Hic
-Paske mbaruar shpejt sot? Po- iu pergjigja, pa ditur
c`te shtoja.
-Edhe ne kemi gjithe mbasditen me 3-4 veta, jo me
shume.Po eshte normale sepse eshte e hene. Te henat
jane gjithmone keshtu. Ne ate kohe dikush e thirri me
emer. Kamerieri leshoi nje " erdha" te forte dhe sikur
desh te vazhdonte biseden me mua. U mendua nje moment
dhe pastaj nxitoi per nga mbrapa banakut, nga vinte
zeri.
Kishim kohe qe njiheshim. Ishte me i ri nga une dhe qe
ne fillim na ishte ngrene muhabeti. Sa here qe
shiheshim, dhe kjo ndodhte gjithmone ne lokalin e tij,
vec expresit te perhershem, ai e kishte bere zakon te
vinte, te ulesh ne nje tavoline me mua, pa gje perpara
ose po te qellonte mbas mesit te nates, me sanduicin e
darkes ne nje pjate, me fytyren e drejtuar nga dera
dhe banaku per te pare se mos ndonjeri kishte nevoje
per sherbimin e vet. E sa here qe ulesh fillonte te me
tregonte me nje rreze 360 grade te rejat e dites, te
rejat e rruges, te rejat mbi ata qe njihja e nuk
njihja. Mund te shkoje perdite, dhe perdite mbas
pyetjes se zakonshme " he c`kemi" dhe mbas pergjigjes
po aq te zakonshme " ja , hic", ishe i sigurte qe do
te degjoje ndonje gje te re. Jeta ne bar eshte e
cuditshme. I ngjan nje kanali te vogel ne buze te nje
lumi. Cfare kalon ne lum e gjen edhe ne kanal, ka
shume uje ne lum , ka edhe ne kanal, i turbullt uji i
lumit, po ashtu edhe ai i kanalit. Si enet
komunikuese. Ne ate bar shihje nga te gjitha, njerez
te kenaqur nga jeta, njerez te merzitur nga jeta,
hajdute, trafikante te vegjel droge, bixhozxhinj,
prostituta, mashtrues e te mashtruar. Ajo qe ishte
perjashtim ne vendet e tjera , aty ishte rregulli. Po
te shkoje nga ora 17 deri 20, ai ishte orari i
hajduteve. Mbas "xhiros" se dites, ne lokal do te
tregtoheshin nen dore e nen tavoline nga copat e
mishit , te vjedhura neper supermarkatet e deri tek
ora, unaza floriri, paisje elektrike e elektronike te
reja e te vjetra, qe vinin nga kushedi se ku. Sa mee
madhe te ishte vlera e sendit per tu shitur, aq me pak
paguhesh, ky ishte rregulli. Mbas ores 20 fillonte
parada e prostitutave. Me perjashtime, ishin kliente
te rregullta. Punonjesit e lokalit si dhe shume nga
ata qe kalonin kohen sa ne rruge sa aty, i njihnin me
emra. PO te doje e te kishe kohe, mund te bije dakort
te merrje cilendo prej tyre. Shpesh bile edhe gratis.
Seksi ne ate vend kishte te drjeten e qytetarise.
S`kishte asnje lloj turpi publik apo censure morale.
Mjafton te mos kishte dhune. Pastaj gjithshka tjeter
rregullohesh,tregtohesh, blihesh e shitesh. Ne mbremje
vone dhe diteve te premte e te shtune, deri ne oret e
para te mengjezit ishte radha e bixhozxhinjve. Qofte
me letra apo me makina, kishte njerez qe luanin deri
ne 20 mije dollare ne nate. E per nje lokal thuajse te
vogel, sic ishte ai bar, shumat qe kalonin nga duart e
atyre qe luanin per ne kasen e barit, per nje pije,
per nje pakete cigare, apo edhe perqindaj per
perdorimin e kthines se mbyllur, nuk ishin te
paperfillshme per bilancin e te ardhurave. Ma kishte
thene kamerieri, miku im , kete. Nganjehere ndodhte qe
vinin edhe police brenda ne lokal. Pershendesnin
ndonje te njohur te tyre me nje ton qe ti vije doren
ne zjarr se ishin koleg pune, po te mos e dije se me
ke po flisnin.
Ajo dite s`kishte asgje te tille. Ndofta nga qe ishte
e hene. Tavolinat vazhdonin te ishin bosh. Ne te majte
televizori vazhdonte punen e vet dhe ne te djathte ,
zhurmat e rruges vinin si sfondi sonor i asaj qe ishte
ne ekranin e televizorit.Nderkohe, kamerieri, miku im,
qe me sa duket i kishte mbaruar punet e veta dhe
s`kish me cfare merresh ne ate kohe, iu afrua
tavolines, i beri vend vetes duke terhequr karriken
dhe u ul perballe meje me nje cope peshqiri te lagur
ne dore.
- He,c`kemi- e pyeta, duke e pare ne sy.
-Te zakonshmet- ma ktheu, dhe po prisja te vazhdonte
si zakonisht. E me te vertet, s`me la te prisja shume.
-E di- m`u drejtua- e mban mend nje vajze qe ke pare
ketu para nja nje jave?
-Jo, s`me kujtohet-i thashe, dhe me mend po perpiqesha
te materializoja ate per te cilen behesh fjale,
megjithse ca si e veshtire, me gjithe ato qe te binte
rasti te shikoje aty.
-Ajo qe ishte ne nje tavoline me ate bjondin, qe te
shihte ate dite e s`ti ndante syte?-precizoi.
-Aah, po. Pse?
-Ka vdekur.
-Ka vdekur? Po si? Kur ndodhi?
-Ka vdekur. Vdiq dje ne mengjez.
-Si vdiq, nga se?
-Ne nje aksident automobilistik. U perplas me makine
dhe u dogj e gjalle. U dogj komplet.
-Sa keq- shtova . Dhe me gjithemend po me vinte keq.
Vajza per te cilen po flisnim, tani po me vinte nder
mend. Kishte nje fytyre simpatike, nje trup te bukur,
jo shume te gjate, por me gjoksin e kercyer perpara. E
kisha pare te shoqerohesh me nje bjond qe me kishin
thene se ishte hajdut profesionist. Dhe pikerisht ate
dite, te paren dhe te fundit qe e pashe, ajo mi kishte
ngulur syte dhe s`mi kishte shqitur per minuta te
tera, aq sa i kish rene ne sy dhe u be objekt bisede
dhe me shokun tim. Ajo s`ishte me, s`rronte me. Me te
vertet qe po me vinte keq. Bile ne fyt mu krijua nje
si lloj boshlleku. Humbjet gjithmone me kane lene nje
shije te keqe ne vetvete. Me zor mesohem, dhe peshen e
asaj qe s`e kam me e ndjej te zmadhuar, cfaredo lloj
natyre qofte ajo, fizike,materiale, shpirterore.
Humbja ka ne syte e mij nje lloj sublimiteti. Eshte,
s`eshte.Dhe sidomos kur jane te asaj kategorie sic
eshte vdekja, atehere permasat s`qendrojne asnjehere
ne nje vend dhe brenda nje fragmenti perjetoj
trajektoren jete-vdekje e anasjelltas me gjithe ato
cfare ka brenda si jeta e perditshme, puna e
perditshme, zakonet e ndryshme te te vdekurit,
shoqeria, i dashuri e dashura, cfare mund te kishte
bere apo ku do te kishte qene te nesermen sikur te
ishte ne jete, gjithshka cfare mund te jetoje nje trup
njeriu ne 24 ore te jetes se vet. Se fundi, kalimi pa
kthim ne nje dimesnsion tjeter, ne nje forme tjeter
sic eshte vdekja. E pakthyeshme, e pariparueshme, e
pazevendesueshme. Gjithshak mund ta riparosh,
rregullosh, zevendesosh, nje rrobe, nje veper arti,
nje miqesi, nje martese. Por nje vdekje, jo. Eshte
rruge njekalimsheme pa te drejte kthimi. Eshte,
s`eshte.Te dyja lidhen me nje fije te holle, e holle
sa vena apo kapilari me i vogel ne nje qenie te
gjalle.
-Sa keq,-perserita.
-Edhe mua me vjen keq-ma ktheu miku im,-bile dyfish.
-Pse?
-Une qeshe i fundit qe bera dashuri me te.
-Si, si?-e pyeta, me teper per te kuptuar lidhjen e
arsyetimit te mikut tim.
-S`te besohet? Te shtunen kemi qene bashke deri ne
oren 3-4 te mengjezit ketu ne bar. Ishte me ate
bjondin. Ai ndenji e ndenji, pastaj nga mesnata u
merzit. I tha asja qe ta shoqeronte ,po ajo s`deshi.
Donte te rrinet ketu. Donte te pinet. Piu nja dy
shishe vere e ishte me esell se une qe gjithe diten
kisha pire vetem kafe e kapucino.U ulem ne nje
tavoline. Une i bera edhe nje sanduic dhe kur ngelem
vetem, nga dora ne dore,nga dora ne krah, nga krahu ne
gjoks e deri sa dolem lakuriq qe te dy, nuk u desh
shume kohe. Cfare te te them. Dashuri si me ate rralle
kam bere. Ishte shume e mire. Apo cfare gjoksi
kishte,- dhe me syte gati te perhumbur dukesh sikur po
pershkruante nje film erotik qe kishte pare dy net me
pare.
Tregimi i njefrymshem i mikut tim, me te gjitha
hollesite e tij, me kishte corjentuar. Menyra e te
pershkruarit, personi me te cilen ato lidheshin, fakti
qe ky person nuk ishte me ne kete jete, me benin te
qeshja e te mendohesha. Asnjehere nuk me kishte kaluar
nder mend nje situate e tille, ku personi i
porsavdekur te kujtohesh per atributet e veta
seksuale. Po s`thone kot. Rruget e zotit jane te
pafundme.
-Hajt se paske bere sevap-iu drejtova. Ndofta ka
shkuar e gezuar ne ate jete.
-A thua?
-Keshtu e mendoj une.
-Kurse ne nga anet tona e kemi per ogur te keq. Sepse
thone qe kush ben dashuri per here te fundit me te
porsavdekurin, e ndjek nga mbrapa. Llafe njerezish
jane, po kush e di? Si thua ti? Dhe kam qe dje qe sa
here e kujtoj fatkeqen ose kur ma permendin ata qe e
kane marre vesh kete histori, me njeren dore kap
kryqin qe kam ne qafe dhe tjetren e ve ketu- dhe me
tregoi doren e vene mbi seksin e vet,-E thyen ogurin e
keq.
Perseri nga mbrapa banakut dikush e thirri me te madhe
ne emer. Me nje "erdha" po aq te forte, miku im u cua
me zhurme nga tavolina dhe si me pertese p shtynte
karrigen mbrapa. Ishte si i perhumbur, me syte qe
shihnin larg. Edhe une s`po kisha me deshire te rrija
aty. U cova. Palosa gazeten e hapur para meje, e lashe
ne nje cep dhe iu drejtova:-Po iki.
-S`do rrish edhe pak?
-Jo se neser jam per pune. Edhe....-e ndermend me
kaloi gjithe skena qe sapo me kishte permendur, e po
mundohesha te gjeja nje batute me buzen ne gaz.
-Mos e thuaj- ma preu dhe te dyja duart, njera kapi
kryqin, jtetra kapi seksin,-e di se cfare ke ndermend.
-Mire atehere-i thashe.Naten e mire dhe fli pa
enderra.
-E di , e di-ma ktheu. Duku, kalo kesaj jave.
-Do perpiqem-shtova, dhe u drejtova per nga porta. Tek
po dilja perjashta ne rruge, vetetimthi me kajoi
ndermend te kthehesha e ta pyesja mikun tim se cfare
ndodhte me te vete dhe te vejat ne vendin e tij. Po
kur kujtova ate preokupacionin e vet gati mistik qe ia
shihje ne fytyre, ne syt, ne buze e deri tek floket e
veta, hoqa dore dhe vazhdova drejt. Ndofta ishte
argument per nje here tjeter. 

 


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From traboini at erols.com  Sat Dec  9 01:30:54 2000
From: traboini at erols.com (traboini at erols.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 02:30:54 -0400
Subject: [Alb-club] Ngushellim
References: <200012090402.eB942GW01591@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <3A31D19D.3DB1@erols.com>

I dashur Dritan

Me erdhi shume i hidhur njoftimi qe ti percolle 
nepermjet nje mesazhi, per vdekjen e nenes tende 
te dashur.
  Ne qe jetojme larg e i kemi te afermit ne Shqiperi
e dime mire se sa e trishtueshem vjen lajmi i vdekjes, 
qofte te nje shoku a te nje miku, ndersa vdekja e nenes 
eshte nje katastrofe e vertete per shpirtin e mergimtarit.
  Me ate njoftim te hidhur me vure ne mendime.
Nena ime eshte 79 vjece e jeton  ne Shkoder, 
  Qe nga viti 1993 e deri ne 99 e kam takuar veten 
nje here ne Itali, vitin e kaluar.
  Nena eshte dashuria dhe dhembja me e madhe... 
  Prandaj te kuptoj se ne cfare gjendje je me humbjen e 
nenes tende te dashur.
  Por fatit te hidhur nuk ke cfare ti besh vetem te 
perballosh jeten me stoicizem e ta ruash prane zemres 
kujtimin e mrekullueshem te nenes .
   I dashur Dritan, prano ngushellimet e mija te sinqerta 
per kete fatkeqesi tenden personale.

     Kolec Traboini
  Boston 9 dhjetor 2000


From mimoza2 at yahoo.it  Sat Dec  9 02:52:32 2000
From: mimoza2 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?mimoza=20ahmeti?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:52:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Alb-club] Dhjete vjet me pas
Message-ID: <20001209075232.25415.qmail@web1204.mail.yahoo.com>

Jeta eshte beteje, dhe per me teper ndrysshimet duan
shume beteja.
Ai qe rezohet ne hapin e pare ,duhet te provoje te
dytin.
Ketu ne Itali egziston nje thenie:
Un passo per volta(?do here hidh nga nje hap) qe do te
thote qe per te haritur diku nuk hariet menjehere.
Fakti qe nje numer kaq i madh shqipetaresh ne emigrim
eshte maturuar,ka fituar edhe nje kulture demokratike
dhe jane te preukupuar per Shqiperine,eshte nje motiv
me shume per te shpresuar per nje ndryshim te shpejte
e pozitiv te shqiperise.
Ne ? menyre?
Ta diskutojme.
MImoza Kallfa Ahmeti
--- Lorenc Fishta <lorencfishta at yahoo.com> ha scritto:
>                   *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***
> 
> 
> 
> Student?t e Dhjetorit jan? t? zhg?njyer, sepse
> populli
> shqiptar ?sht? I zhg?njyer dhe I marr? n?p?rk?mb?.
> Ata
> nuk e kishin menduar kurr? se t? duash ta b?sh
> Shqip?rin? si gjith? Europa, do t? thot? t?
> eksperimentosh mbi kurrizin e popullit t? varf?r
> piramido-kapitalizmin! Ata nuk e kishin p?rfytyruar
> kurr? vendin e vet si nj? ankand gjigand ku ?do gj?
> dhe gjithkush ?sht? n? shitje, nj? treg ku po b?hen
> pazarll?qe dhe shpenzimet I heq populli I
> st?rvuajtur!
> Student?t e Dhjetorit nuk ishin p?r vazhdimin e
> luft?s
> s? klasave, p?rkundrazi ata d?shironin mbylljen e
> plag?ve t? s? kaluar?s, edhe pse xhelat?t e
> diktatur?s
> akoma edhe sot e k?saj dite nuk kan? k?rkuar falje
> p?r
> krimet e tyre! Student?t e Dhjetorit d?shironin ta
> shihnin fshatarin shqiptar me tok?n e vet, ku ai t?
> mbillte prodhime bujq?sore dhe jo bim? narkotike!
> Ata
> donin ta ?lironin popullin nga prangat e diktatur?s
> dhe jo t?I kthenin shqiptar?t n? tregtar? modern?
> skllev?rish t? klandestin?ve dhe hallexhijve t?
> bot?s!
> Student?t e Dhjetorit I quajt?n vajzat studente --
> motrat e tyre -- duke I mbrojtur nga shkopinjt? e
> gom?s s? sambist?ve dhe nuk e kishin pritur q? nj?
> dit? motrat e tyre do t? mbushnin trotuaret e
> Europ?s
> duke k?naqur epshet e t? huajve! N? qoft? se nj?
> dit?
> do t? hynim n? bashk?sin? e familjeve europiane, do
> t?
> duhej t? hynim ball?lart? dhe krenar?, ashtu si? e
> kemi patur p?r zakon, dhe jo me gomone e viza
> fallco!
> Pashaporta boj?kafe e Republik?s s? Shqip?ris? duhet
> t? ishte nder dhe jo objekt turpi! T? qenurit
> shqiptar
> duhet t? ishte krenari dhe jo mohim I vetvetes,
> vet?m
> sepse akoma nuk kemi nj? shtet t? fuqish?m me
> diplomat? t? aft? p?r t? na mbrojtur dinjitetin ton?
> komb?tar!  Politikan?t shqiptar? duhet t? ken? nj?
> gj?
> parasysh: dinjiteti I shqiptarit dhe interesat e
> kombit nuk shiten, sepse nuk kan? ?mim! Nuk mund t?
> lejohet q? Greqia t?I marr? p?rpara shqip?tar?t si
> bag?ti e t?I vras? si lepuj n?p?r malet e fushat e
> Ballkanit! Nuk futet Shqip?ria n? Lidhjen e Vendeve
> Islamike duke I fryr? ndasive fetare, sepse ajo e ka
> vendin e vet n? Europ?! Nuk I jepet vota e pranimit
> n?
> OSBE Jugosllavis?, sepse Kosova I ka syt? dhe
> shpres?n
> tek shteti am?! Nuk I shtr?ngohet dora Milloshevi?it
> apo pasuesve t? tij, sepse ajo ?sht? e lar? me gjak
> shqiptari, more zot?rinj politikan?! Nuk mund t?
> deklarohet se Shqip?ria duhet t? b?het Protektorat I
> Italis?, kur ne I kemi hedhur italian?t n? det q? m?
> 1920-t?n! Nuk mund t? etiketohen SHBA-t?, her? miq e
> her? armiq si? ua do interesi vetjak apo partiak
> disave. Ne kemi nevoj? p?r miq dhe aleat? t? v?rtet?
> dhe jo p?r lidhje mafioz?sh! A nuk mund t? gjejn?
> politikan?t shqiptar? nj? zgjidhje dhe nj?
> bashk?punim
> tolerant me nj?ri-tjetrin p?r hir t? p?rparimit t?
> vendit? Fundja, jemi q? t? gjith? shqiptar?, flasim
> t?
> nj?jt?n gjuh? dhe n? deje na rrjedh po I nj?jti
> gjak!
> 	Sot populli shqiptar ?sht? n? pik? t? hallit, sepse
> kushtet ekonomike dhe politike jan? r?nduar
> tmerr?sisht. Ku jan? investimet e huaja q? u
> premtuan
> me aq buj? nga qeverit? e majta dhe t? djathta? Ku
> shkojn? milionat q? nxirren n? vend? Depozitohen
> n?p?r
> bankat e bot?s apo iu bashkangjiten lumit t? parave
> t?
> pista q? qarkullojn? n?p?r vend me synim
> shum?fishimin
> e fitimit? P?rse nuk kujdesen milioner?t e rinj
> shqiptar? p?r hapjen e vendeve t? pun?s apo
> nd?rtimin
> e shkollave? P?rse nuk ndalohet hemoragjia e
> inteligjenc?s shqiptare? P?rse duhet q? f?mij?t tan?
> t? shesin cigare apo banane p?r t? mbijetuar, t?
> ngujohen n?p?r kulla nga frika e gjakmarrjes, n?
> vend
> q? t? shkojn? e t? shkollohen? P?rse duhet q? k?tyre
> f?mij?ve t?u vritet prap? shpresa dhe t? humbin
> pafajshm?rin? f?minore? 
> Akoma m? i zymt? b?het realiteti kur mendon se edhe
> sot, pas dhjet? vjet?sh tranzicion, Shqip?ria nuk ka
> drita, m? keq se ??ishte n? Dhjetor t? 90-t?s! ?far?
> cinizmi nga ana e atyre q? drejtojn? at? vend!
> Zot?rinj politikan? dhe milioner? t? rinj, mund t?
> vij? nj? dit? n? t? ardhmen e af?rt q? populli I
> varf?r dhe pa shpres?, t? shpraz? mbi ju mllefin
> shum?vje?ar t? vuajtjes dhe mjerimit! Kini kujdes,
> se
> po luani me zjarrin!
> 	 ?far? mund t? b?jm? sot ne, ish-student?t e
> Dhjetorit? Nuk jemi m? dhe aq naiv? si dikur, 20-22
> vje?ar? q? mendonim t? jepnim jet?n p?r nj? ideal.
> Jeta na ka rrahur shum? e na ka m?suar leksione t?
> ndryshme nga ato t? Universitetit t? Tiran?s. Por
> kudo
> q? mund t? na ken? hedhur dallg?t e jet?s, nj? gj?
> ka
> mbetur e pandryshuar: dashuria p?r at? vend dhe p?r
> at? popull! A nuk do t? ishte mir? sikur q? t?
> gjith?
> t? bashkonim forcat dhe dijet q? kemi mbledhur me aq
> mund e djers? e t?I vinim n? sh?rbim t? atij populli
> q? dikur na quajti heronj? A nuk do t? ishte mir?
> sikur ta fshinim korrupsionin dhe loj?rat e ndyra
> politike e t?I zev?ndsonim me ndershm?rin? dhe
> vetmohimin p?r t? mir?n e Shqip?ris?? Ju b?jm?
> thirrje
> q? t? gjith? student?ve dhe pedagog?ve t? Dhjetorit,
> q? t? gjith? shqiptar?ve, q? t? p?rpiqen me ?do
> kusht
> p?r nj? q?llim t? vet?m ? p?r ngritjen e nj? shteti
> t?
> fort? p?r t? gjith? bashk?kombasit dhe p?r
> ringjalljen
> e shpres?s, sepse ajo tok? ?sht? toka jon? dhe vet?m
> ne si shqiptar?, mund ta b?jm? t? begat?, n? m?nyr?
> q?
> t? jetojm? q? t? gjith? aty, duke vjelur frutet e
> ?mbla t? shqiptarizmit! Ia kemi borxh vetes dhe ia
> kemi borxh Shqip?ris?, sepse dikur, dhjet? vjet m?
> par?, I kemi premtuar se do ta b?jm? t? lir? e
> demokratike, t? pavarur e t? barabart? me pjes?n
> tjet?r t? Europ?s. 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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> ____________________________________________________
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=====
ci sto provando a scrivere con  yahoo mail

______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it


From qineti at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  9 06:57:13 2000
From: qineti at yahoo.com (artan qineti)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 03:57:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Deutsche Welle: Deklarata e BE-se!
Message-ID: <20001209115713.1355.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>

(marre pa leje nga edicioni shqip i Deutsche Welle)

09.12.2000

Nic?: Kryetar?t e shteteve dhe qeverive t? BE shpreh?n
optimizmin e tyre p?r pranimin e gjasht? shteteve t?
Evrop?s juglindore n? BE. Fjala ? sht? p?r Kroacin?,
Sllovenin?, Bosnj?-Hercegovin?n, Maqedonin?,
Shqip?rin? dhe Jugosllavin?. Si kusht paraprak p?r
k?t? pjes?tar?t n? samit cil?suan bashk?punimin
rajonal. N? dukje u vu gjithashtu se vendimi p?r
secilin prej vendeve t? lartp?rmneduar do t? merret
megjithat? n? ve?anti.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/


From AlbClubNY at aol.com  Sat Dec  9 12:36:23 2000
From: AlbClubNY at aol.com (AlbClubNY at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 12:36:23 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Copeza Letrare te Fundjaves
Message-ID: <49.484dca6.2763c797@aol.com>


Disa poezi nga ALBAN TARTARI ( Ankara, Turqi)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mbas ikjes tende...
(inat me gjithe boten)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
Shirat s'bien me bukur,
si dikur,
dhe rrugeve geshtenja-shitesit
bertasin te lodhur e te merzitur,
Shume aksidente ndodhen keto dite ne qytet,
Dhe gazetat genjejne per te shitur...
Inflacioni vazhdon te ngrihet,
Antenat e lagura te televizoreve,
nuk kapin mire,
dhe pellumbat nuk vijne me 
per vizite ne ballkonin tim.
Skuadra jone e preferuar
vec po humb,
dritat vijne me orar,
dhe uji vec nje ore ne dite...
rruget jane mbushur me horra e bandite,
dhe sheshet me politikane te mbaruar,
dhe me parti te deshtuara politike...

kjo qeveri duhet te jape doreheqjen,
sepse ti ike...


---------------------------
I palexueshmi

nga Alban Tartari

Ti je nje problem algjebre,
Nga ata qe te ngelin ne klase,
Shkrimi im i keq qe s'lexohet,
Mermeritja ime,
Qe as vete s'e kuptoj kur flas.
Ti s'lexohesh,
Je nje problem ngeles algjebre,
qe eshte zhgarravitur keq ne derrase...

-----------------------------------------------------

Poezi e ftohte
(Stina e Vetmise)

nga alban tartari

Kam ftohte
nga vetmia
dhe drute ne sobe 
kercasin me kot
i panevojshem 
postieri i kesaj lagjie
ky qiri, ky jorgan
kjo sobe, s'me ngroh dot
Ngrij si te jem
ne maje ne Korabit
ne fund te Drinit...
ne stinen e Vetmise
ben shume ftohte...
---------------------------------

Gozhda
(dashuri-tetanoz)

nga alban tartari

Mu gris shpirti,
ne nje gozhde,
te dashurise tende...
Dhe mes qepjesh u munduan doktoret,
e prape ne shpirt
ngeli shenje.
Une,shpirt i shenjuar,
endem ngadale rrugeve
Me dhemb plaga
shpirti i arnuar...
Ma corre shpirtin
me nje gozhde te ndryshkur,
tani mbaj me vete
dashurine-tetanozin e mallkuar.

-----------------------------------------------------


Dhimbja

nga alban tartari? 
? 
Dhimbjet,
e bejne njeriun njeri,
Goditjet qe s'e 
? ? thyen kurre burrin...
Ne ditet lyer me merzine gri,
Kur brenga,halli bren edhe gurin.

Dhimbjen e kemi qepur mbas vetes,
Bashke me djepin e qivurin...
--------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
HTML attachment scrubbed and removed

From pifto at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  9 15:55:24 2000
From: pifto at hotmail.com (GH)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:55:24 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub Story Project (4)
References: <dd.d34ca23.276307ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <OE49s4rxwVlmFjvAwhF000071f5@hotmail.com>

                  *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***



Kur hapa deren e guzhines nuk doja qe nena ta kuptonte qe kisha pire. Ajo i
kishte zet ata qe pinin. Sapo isha ndare, (Y.D.) , pas njeqind tentativash
te
mehereshme, nga Andrea dhe ai bari i cuditshem ne perendim te qytetit, qe
ishte dhe nje nga vendet me te papershtateshme per te elaboruar tema te
komplikuara mbi kuptimshmerine  apo absurditetin e egzistences te races
njerezore ( E di, jemi krejtesisht qesharake!) apo dilemen para njeriut
modern (ku me "njeri modern" ne te dy qe me pare kemi rene dakord te
kuptojme
te gjithe brezat e lindur PASI Frojdi vendosi te na i ndricoje mendjet me
teorite e tij simpatike, por perpara se te dilte kenga "hit" e Makarenes),
apo per t'i vene ne dukje me taktin tone karakteristik njeri tjetrit se ne
cfare deshtakesh pijanece perfunduam ne te dy ne krahasim me te gjithe
ish-shoket e kursit tone qe thyen qafen keshtu si ne ne Evrope e Amerike
sapo
qe u be deti kos ne 90-ten. Dhe tema te kesaj natyre jane zakonisht fare te
pashmangeshme midis meje dhe tij, sidomos kur nuk gjen asnje njeri te hajrit
qe te flirtosh perreth.

Por do ishte fare mizore tani ne kete ore kaq te vone dhe kur mezi i terhoqa
kembet zvarre gjer lart pasi i kisha uruar nate te mire Andreas (i cili
andej
nga fundi jo vetem filloi te me ngjante tmerresisht shume me Salvador
Dali-ne
por edhe me degjohej si ai) te gelltisja nje leksion me teper te mamase mbi
demet qe alkoholi i ben zemres dhe se sa pak e kuptoja une rendesine e
shendetit dhe konkretisht te organit ne fjale [zemres] qe me sa duket, sipas
mamase, po qe se funksionoka mire ti mundke te kesh nje jete te gjate e te
vazhdoke te marresh pension per shume vjet me rradhe pavaresisht se organeve
te tjera te trupit tend mund t'iu kene rene baterite e te enden hallakatur
brenda organizmit tend pa u kujtuar dot se cilat funksione trupore kryejne.

Sado qe une te perpiqem t'i shpjegoj asaj se une vertet nuk jam nje njeri
perfekt (ne fakt, as qe mundem te mendoj qe perfeksioni te jete arritur ne
kete bote, me perjashtim mbase te rastit te paranoies qe ka tezja ime e cila
beson se ia kane mbushur apartamentin me aparatura pergjimi) dhe se mund te
kem dhe ndonje "ves" aty-ketu, ajo nuk do te me lere pa me bere ta degjoj
cka
per te thene deri ne fund. Keshtu qe i mermerita me shpejtesi ate  "pse me
pret zgjuar deri kaq vone?!" te zakonshme dhe hyra ne dhomen time e rashe
permbys mbi krevat me gjithe rroba...ose te pakten kete konstatova kur u
zgjova qull ne djerse ndaj te zbardhur, ne nje gjendje pak si te tronditur
nga nje enderr e cuditshme qe vertet [deri ketu ERA] me kishte futur friken
ne palce, megjithese une nuk jam nga ata qe frikesohem lehte, sidomos pasi i
kthej nja dy-tri dopjo uzo shqeto me ate Salvador Daline e Llakatundit, qe
meqe ra fjala nuk eshte as shqiptar fare, por vllah per koken e vllahut (sic
e kam sqaruar ne nje histori tjeter). Shihja ne enderr sikur kisha rene rob
i
nje fisi ilir nga ata te lashtet fare, qe i faleshin diellit, dhive te egra
dhe Malit me Gropa, dhe keta iliret me kishin lidhur me litare kerpi mire e
bukur si sallam suxhuk, me kishin vene ne mes te nje livadhi me trendelina,
dhe nje nga me pleqte e fisit sec po trazonte ca barishte ne nje kusi te
madhe prej bakri qe valonte mbi zjarrin bubulak. Nuk e paskesha ditur qe
iliret paskeshin qene antropofage, sa gjera na i kane mbajtur te fshehta
xhanem! I pari i fisit, qe e kishte emrin Bato, dhe qe me ishte veshur si
Mirush Kabashi te "Apologjia e vertete e Sokratit," m'u afrua prane duke
tymosur pak marihuane, dhe me tha: "C'behesh merak a i vrare, te gjithe, te
lare e te palare, ne muzeume do te perfundojme."

Po une sa e kam filluar jeten," i thashe, "bile akoma nuk e kam te qarte
nese
mund te quhet jete kjo qe kam filluar, apo jo." "S'te vjen turp, edhe paske
pire, pa le!" u nxeh Xha Batoja, kur i mberriti duhma e frymes sime prej
sarhoshi. Pastaj u ngrit nje plak tjeter - se keta iliret qenkeshin te
gjithe
pleq, ose te pakten shumica (me vone e mora vesh se te rinjte nuk e vinin
mishin ne goje, as palcen)  - dhe tha: "Xha Bato, po ketij agait i eshte
qelbur mishi fare nga te piret, do te na shkojne dem gjithe keto ereza qe
mezi i mblodhen grate maleve, se zhapat e ketij as macoket e plehrave nuk do
t'i begenisin, se kuterbon si shpella ku zien rakine Batoja i Teto Rakipes."
"Po si thua ti Bato efendi," i tha Xha Batoja ketij Batos tjeter, "ta leme
te
ike e te thyeje qafen?" "Le te ike, fundja, se gjynah eshte. Dhe le t'u
tregoje te veteve se c'ka pare ketu."

Keto mbaja mend nga endrra, kur me doli gjumi. Me kruhej gjithe trupi nga te
djersiturit (ne mos nga uthulla ku me kishin kredhur gjate marinimit ose
balsamosjes fare), le kembet qe me ishin bere turshi fare, mbyllur ne
kepucet
me qafa. Sec ishte edhe nje si gje qe me gervishtte ne gjoks, tamam si thua
i
vrazhde ariu, me siguri do te me ishte ngaterruar neper rroba ajo kruajtesja
e dhembeve prej alumini te anodizuar qe e mbaj gjithnje me vete, sidomos ne
xhepin e kemishes me kuadrata qe vesh kur shkoj te pi ndonje gote me shoket,
zakonisht te premteve mbrema ne krye te muajit. Teksa matesha ta hiqja qe
andej, ngriva: me preken gishtat nje objekt te panjohur - nje varese. C'te
ishte kjo varese? Kur kisha mbajtur ndonje varese une? Kush ma kishte varur,
dhe pse? Si ishte puna qe nuk e mbaja mend? Kaq shume te isha dehur? Me
shume
zor, arrita ta ngre perpara syve, qe ta shihja, mirepo ne dhome ishte akoma
gjysmerresire, dhe vetem munda te shquaj nje si gje te bardhe, me shume si
nofull e shkeputur kabuleci, ose si guaske e atyre kacaminjve te detit qe i
nxjerr ndonjehere vala ne breg, gje me e shpifur nuk behet, me siguri ishte
ndonje rreng qe me kishte luajtur ndonje nga ato koketat qe na takuan kur
ishim me Andrean, se mua sikur kishte filluar pak te me turbullonte atehere,
po c'te ishte ky kacamill keshtu? Me dore te dredhur, ndeza abazhurin, dhe
kur m'u mesuan syte me driten, i hodha nje veshtrim rishtaz. Kesaj radhe,
frika me hyri ne palce edhe me thelle sesa me kishte hyre ne enderr. Kisha
fjetur duke mbajtur te varur ne qafe nje dhemballe njeriu. Po, po,
dhemballe,
goxha te beshme, nga ato me kater rrenje te shtrembera, qe m'i kishte te
katerta pakez te skuqura te majat, dukej qarte qe ia kishin shkulur dikujt
per se gjalli, nuk ishte nga ato reliket qe i mbajne neper xhepa studentet e
mjekesise per te trembur gjimnazistet, dhe ketu nuk durova dot pa e kaluar
gjuhen nje here pergjate dhemballeve te mia, qe i kisha te gjitha ne vend,
te
forta e te plota, se une nga dhembet i kam ngjare gjyshit ndjese paste, qe
deri diten qe i ra ajo e paemra vinin e merrnin dentistet per demonstrime te
kafazit te gojes te homo sapiens, mirepo edhe kjo dhemballa qe me kishin
varur mua ne qafe nuk kishte shenja kariesi per be, vinte vertet si e
verdheme, po ama e dyste dhe pa njolla, me siguri i kishte perkitur nje
njeriu qe kujdesej per dhembet - ne c'rast Salvador Llakatundi perjashtohej,
sepse ky i kishte kaq te demtuara katarroshet, saqe nje here qe u kandis te
vente tek dentisti, e nxoren nga krahu drejt e perjashta, dhe i thane qe te
mos dukej me prape pa avokatin ...[deri ketu Lulezim Shtino], zotin Filip
Radovani, te cilin mua do te me duhej ndoshta ta merrja menjehere ne
telefon, kur, pasi syte u ambientuan me driten e abazhurit, munden te vinin
re se dhemballa ne fjale kishte nje mbushje tejet elegante prej nje
xhevahiri te vockel fare, i cili shperndau disa rreze teper te holla dhe te
pastra drite ne te gjitha drejtimet brenda dhomes, ne nje moment tek
vezhgoja dhemballen duke e rrotulluar ngadale direkt perpra hundes time.
Ngritja e menjehershme nga krevati do te duhej te kishte perfunduar
vetekuptueshem me nje rrezim te zakonshem, per t'u zvarritur me pas ne
drejtim te nje komodine mbi te cilen ishte vendosur edhe telefoni, sikur per
nje fraksion te sekondes te mos i kisha hedhur nje veshtrim pasqyres se
madhe (me teper me paranojen, per mos e thyer padashje ate brenda
apartamentit), ku munda te vija re, qe te brendshmet e mia nuk ishin te
miat, gje per te cilen u sigurova perfundimisht tek ju afrova pasqyres dhe
pashe qendisur ne to nje steme ne dukje teper rojaliste, me nje shqiponje ne
qender, per numrin e kokave te te ciles he per he nuk mund te thoja asgje
konkrete, persakohe qe syte e mia me intervale gjithnje e me te shkurtra,
vazdonin te me kryenin njekohesisht nje sherbim te dyfishte. Tek terhiqesha
ngadale mbrapsht duke pare veten time ne pasqyre gjithnje e me me teper
mosbesim, nderkohe qe ne nje moment te caktuar kur ajo filloi te me dukej e
huaj fillova bile edhe te kisha turp prej saj, bej nje gjysem rrotullimi ne
drejtim te qoshes se telefonit, duke vezhguar ende pasqyren, nese edhe
Lartmadheria e Tij do te denjonte te bente te njejten gje dhe shikoj ne
supin tim nje tatuazh te kuq, masiv, punuar trashe, shpejt, por te dukshem
mire dhe per me keq akoma edhe te kuptueshem lehte. Tek ngrija me tmerr
doren tjeter ne drejtim te tij, me friken dhe njekohesisht me shpresen, qe
gjithcka ishte jo e vertete, munda te fshija, pasi e ferkova disa here
gjithe mosbesim, nje draper dhe nje cekan vizatuar me nje te kuq buzesh te
ndezur, duke ndjere nje lehtesim te tille ne shpirt, te krahasueshem me ate
te nje dite kur dilet nga gjykata komunale dhe vendimi per zgjidhjen e
marteses sapo ka marre formen e prere.

"Studio Legale Filip Radovani dhe Kolleget - kancelaria telefonike - Schmidt
ne aparat, me cfare do te mund t'ju sherbeja ju lutem" u pergjigj nje ze
femror teper hundor ne anen tjeter te telefonit. "Zotin Radovani" i them pa
e pershendetur, me shprese qe duke kursyer cdo fjale me te, te kisha mundesi
te mbetesha te pakten i panjohur per sekretaren, e cila natyrisht tek me
njohu ne ze vijoi me nje ton te qarte teper sarkastik me fjalet: "Ah N. N.
[ore, si e ka emrin ky njeriu], gjithsesi te pakten sot jam bindur
perfundimisht, qe gjeja me e mire qe mund te benim ne te dy me njeri-tjetrin
ishte pikerisht te mos benim asgje me njeri-tjetrin. Sot dhe vetem sot e kam
kuptuar, se me ty nuk do te kishte askush me asnje shans qe te te vinte ne
krah dhe te dilte pa u turperuar ne rruge, ne dite te mira dhe te keqia,
derisa vdekja..." Tek e nderpres ne mes te fjales, duke shijuar edhe
kenaqesine e pare te dites, qe jam duke nderprere dike pikerisht me momentin
e duhur, vijoj relativisht i vrazhde me fjalet: "Me lidh me shefin tend.
Basta!", i cili kokoroc dhe ne forme si gjithnje me pergjigjet ne telefon me
nje ze teper melodioz te trashe, duke me pershendetur fillimisht, per te
vijuar me fjalet:

"Ah N. N., edhe kisha gjithe mengjesin qe prisja te merrje ne telefon. Bile
kisha ndermend te te merrja une dikur andej nga mbasditja, por thashe nje
here te lija te flije dhe te te dilte gjithcka. Ti mos u shqeteso, gjithcka
nuk eshte faji i yti, bile edhe nuk ka mundesi te jete faji i yti. Une te te
propozoja qe ne ne shkalle te pare shkojme me mohim, perderisa nje here per
nje here prokurori ka propozuar si mase sigurie vetem arrest shtepiak dhe
gjithsesi hetimet nuk jane qellim ne vetvete. Ata kane filluar ndjekjen
penale sot ne mengjes per shkelje te dispozitave te valutes dhe arit dhe
lendim trupor te rende, dhe ti i dashur edhe kesaj here ke vajtur dhe ke
zgjedhur dhembin me te mire. Vete shkulja e nje dhembi eshte nje lendim
trupor, persakohe qe nje gje te tille nuk e ndermerr dikush qe ka
kualifikimin stomatollogjik akademik te perfunduar. Une do te propozoja qe
ne t'i kalojme te gjitha instancat, pasi, nese ne shkalle te pare arrijme te
marrim dot nje denim me kusht, ne shkalle te dyte mund te marrim dot pafajsi
per shkeljen e dispozitave mbi valuten dhe arin, ngaqe do te ishte e
veshtire te provohej, qe ti tek zbukuroje veten me dhemballen e sapo shkulur
edhe e ke ditur, qe ajo kishte nje diamant ne te, duke i tjetersuar
karakterin objektit. Ky nuk do te ishte problem dhe te pakten ketu do te
duhej te merrje pafajesi. Persa i perket lendimit trupor do te na duhet te
gjejme me heret nje zgjidhje jashtegjyqesore civile me pajtim, ne menyre qe
pala demtuar e demshperblyer te terheqe kallzimin penal qe te pushohet dot
ceshtja. Mos u shqeteso, dhe te lutem mos prano as te besh deponime pohuese
dhe as te flasesh me gazetare."

"Nje moment te lutem, une..." tek mundohesha te zgjidhja fjalet per te
ndertuar nje fjali pyetese ose FJALINE PYETESE te vetme, Zoti Radovani me
nderpret dhume me thene: "Me fal i dashur, por heres tjeter perpra se te me
marresh ne telefon, hidhi te pakten nje sy gazetes lokale", e cila vertete
ishte e vendosur permbys anash telefonit, te cilen tek e ktheja mbare, munda
te shihja ne faqen e pare nje fotografi te madhe...

Vazhdon Albana


From Admir2000 at netscape.net  Sat Dec  9 22:09:50 2000
From: Admir2000 at netscape.net (Admir Bezhani)
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 22:09:50 -0500
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub Story Project (comment)
Message-ID: <7665BD01.59D3C957.021AD6D3@netscape.net>

Deri tani kjo historia juaj po shkon birinxhi!
Sikur ta dija qe keshtu do pasohej, nga njeri i fandaksur ne tjetrin deri sa te marri permasa surreale fare dhe te mos t'i gjendet me ana se si u nis dhe si do perfundoje. 
Nje propozim kam une. Po s'futet ndonje love story sa me shpejt per kete N.N. (po sikur t'ia veme emrin Nasi Nivica?) do behet shume e veshtire per t'u ndjekur. Love story me nje grua te martuar do ishte me interesante. Dhe sikur dhe asaj nenes se ketij t'i vdiste i dashuri me te cilin kishte nje marrdhenie te fshehte qe ne shqiperi,kur kjo ishte shefe kuadri dhe ai ishte sekretari i partise se ndermarrjes se kesaj, dhe kjo kishte frike t'i thoshte jo kur ai i vinte rrotull, por pastaj kur erdhi 90ta nuk i shpetonte dot me se ai e kercenonte se do ia nxirrte sekretin tek burri dhe femijet keshtu qe kjo u detyrua t'i beje nje garanci dhe ta sjelle me vete ne Amerike ose ne Evrope a ku dreqin jane keta.

tjetri propozim eshte qe ai qe do shkruaje next, te kojpjoje vetem nje paragraf te te meparshmit. Albana mund te kopjoje vetem pragrafin e fundit te Piftos dhe te vazhdoje me te veten se del shume e gjate cdo here, ne menyre qe kur te lexojme variantin e fundit te kemi harruar te gjitha sa jane shkruar deri atehere dhe te na duket si histori e re.

Dhe ma kaloni dhe mua po deshet por nga fundi i javes tjeter se keto dite nuk kam kohe.

Admir

p.s. hic!


From NYEuro at aol.com  Sat Dec  9 22:36:20 2000
From: NYEuro at aol.com (NYEuro at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:36:20 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Copeza Letrare te Fundjaves(Alban Tartari)
Message-ID: <6f.e29e0a3.27645434@aol.com>

Keto poezit ishin fantastike , i lumt dora e mendja atij qe i ka shkruajtur 
(Alban Tartarit) posten time e keni ne gadishmeri per poezi , dergojini kur 
te doni.
P.S sa per ate story project qe kishin nisur, i just wanted to say that im 
sorry but im already lost - shum gjera te komplikume qe skuptohen , per mu 
eshte bo kacurrel fare ... noshta spo me funksonon mendja mir ne kto momente 
se eshte edhe sezon provimesh ... Well good luck to everyone with term papers 
:)


From Annefon at aol.com  Sun Dec 10 03:21:26 2000
From: Annefon at aol.com (Annefon at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:21:26 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Poetry: ALBANIA
Message-ID: <5a.e258b31.27649706@aol.com>

Silke, gezohem qe te ka pelqyer poezia ALBANIA.
Ajo vertet shpreh nje vizion te Shqiperise
se tejkohshme-larg nga te zezat e realitetit politik.

Faleminderit per komunikimin krijues dhe intim-personal
me kete poezi. 
Dashuria qe ndjeni per Shqiperine eshte e mahnitshme
dhe e admirueshme!!!
Do te ishte shume dobiprurese qe me te te "infektoheshin"
dhe ata shqiptare qe jane tehuajsuar aq shume
nga atdheu i perjetshem. 

Me nderime,
Ferhat Ymeri



From Annefon at aol.com  Sun Dec 10 03:44:44 2000
From: Annefon at aol.com (Annefon at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:44:44 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] POETRY: AFTER THE CIRCUS By Azem Shkreli
Message-ID: <f3.56991b3.27649c7c@aol.com>

AFTER THE CIRCUS

On the first trapeze
minds and time balanced on wire

on the second the loviest
in the land and a flaming hoop

down below the clowns
turn us inside out

laugh and laugh
till our teeth fall out

a great flood burst out
in crocodile tears

spitting upwards
they opened windows behind our backs

we trampled on each other
on each other's heads, shoulders, we made it

now we walk off somewhere
each playing his own pipe

Taken from: ROADS LEAD ONLY ONE WAY
              A Survey Of Modern Poetry From Kosova (229 pages)
RILINDJA, PRISHTINE, 1988, page 51

Translations from the Albanian:
JOHN HODGSON

Submitted by:
Ferhat Ymeri


From albana at zool.unizh.ch  Sun Dec 10 08:24:23 2000
From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:24:23 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] AlbClub Story Project
In-Reply-To: <200012100504.eBA54BW22339@alb-net.com>
References: <200012100504.eBA54BW22339@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <a04310100b6591c41c456@[130.60.132.46]>

(cut)....   "Nje moment te lutem, une..." tek mundohesha te zgjidhja 
fjalet per te
ndertuar nje fjali pyetese ose FJALINE PYETESE te vetme, Zoti Radovani me
nderpret dhume me thene: "Me fal i dashur, por heres tjeter perpra se te me
marresh ne telefon, hidhi te pakten nje sy gazetes lokale", e cila vertete
ishte e vendosur permbys anash telefonit, te cilen tek e ktheja mbare, munda
te shihja ne faqen e pare nje fotografi te madhe...(Pifto)



O Zot-- mermerita. Ferkova syte si per te shmangur ndonje 
halucinacion spontan dhe i ringula perseri mbi fotografine. Ngela per 
disa minuta pa marre fryme dhe vetem kur ngulcimat e oksigjenit te 
firuar u bene zanore pyeta veteveten me ze te larte -- C'po ndodh? 
Nuk arrita te mbledh mendjen kur nje gurgullime valezoi ajrin -- 
Miredita z. NN. Gruaja me ze ujvare ecte me hapa te ngadalte po te 
sigurt drejt meje. Syte e saj ngjyre mjalti, floket e zeza dhe 
fustani i saj ngjyre gjaku qe flirtonte me linjat e trupit te saj me 
kryqezyan. Miredita -- u pergjigja instiktivisht. Gruaja m'u afrua 
duke me transmetuar molekulat e parfumit te saj, frymen e saj dhe 
ngrohtesine e trupit te saj. Dora e saj depertonte nen kemishe pa 
ndeshur ne rezistence ndersa mjalti i syve te saj kishte ngrire mbi 
fytyren time. Ndersa syte e mi filluan te perendonin syte e saj 
rreshqiten mbi gazete dhe u fiksuan mbi fotografine. Dora e saj 
ngriu, ndersa fytyra e saj me syte te zvogeluara dhe dy rrudha midis 
tyre me veshtroi ne menyre pyetese. "Mos u shqeteso, dhe te lutem mos 
prano as te besh deponime pohuese"-- me kumbuan fjalet e zotit 
Radovani. Ngrita supet, sforcova muskujt e syve ne limitin e tyre 
maksimal dhe e veshtrova ujvaren e kuqe me sy cudie. Ok baby,-- me 
tha dhe ne te qinden e secondes ndjeva lageshtiren e gjuhes se saj te 
me pershkruante gjithe kavitetin e gojes. Aq u desh. I gjithe 
tensioni i mbledhur, frikerat e paranojat u shnderruan ne nje energji 
te marre qe me mbeshtolli ne nje twist mbi te. Ja shqeva fustanin dhe 
u mora ere e thitha  pafundesisht  gjinjte te saj te vegjel ngjyre 
qumeshti. E thithja dhe ...

10 seconda me vone

nuk di me se c'ndodhi ne ato 10 seconda. Di vetem se kur i hapa syte 
e pashe tek qendronte e ulur siper meje, me nje buzeqeshje 
luleshtrydheje. Kjo ishte shume e shpejte -- me tha me nje goje qe 
ishte provokacioni vete. Kush je ti- e pyeta? Une jam mbreteresha 
Teute m'u pergjigj dhe buzeqeshi lehte. Por -- vazhdoi -- njerezit 
thone qe une jam djalli i misheruar ne njeri -- dhe filloi te qeshe 
si e marre. Pastaj, ndaloi te qeshuren per nje minute, m'i nguli syte 
si thike ndersa cepi i majte i buzes i ishte anuar drejt veshit te 
majte dhe tha -- He? Te hipi frika? Nuk kam per ta harruar ate 
moment. Teksa fliste syte e saj u shnderruan ne nje pasqyre ku une 
per here te pare ate dite pashe veten time. Nuk do ta kisha besuar 
kurre qe njeriu mund te ndryshoje kaq shume vetem brenda nje nate. 
Prej atij trupi qe zyrtarisht quhej NN dhe qe me kishte transportuar 
mua deri ne kete mengjes te heneje te vitit tim te 35 nuk kishte 
ngelur asgje. Vetem nishani im i zi, ne cepin e djathte te buzes sime 
te siperme, ai nishan qe dikur kishte marrosur Linden, kishte mbetur 
si i vetmi trashegimi e nje epoke te mbyllur. .... dhe kujtimi i 
Lindes ...

Ku jam? -- peshperita i tromaksur -- Ku jam?. Mbreteresha Teute 
filloi te qeshte si e cmendur. Hahahahaha --- hahahahha -- 
Pafundesisht. E kapa per supesh, e shkunda fort dhe i ulerita: KU 
JAM? E qeshura e saj histerike me perplasej e thate mbi fytyre. Ashtu 
duke qeshur u ngrit, hodhi rreth vitheve fustanin e gjakte te shqyer 
dhe me gjoksin te mbuluar  vetem nga floket e zeza me hodhi nje 
veshtrim te mjalte te fundit dhe u largua duke qeshur -- HAHAHHA. Mos 
ik! -- ulerita. Ndihme! Ndihme!

Asgje nuk ndodhi, as nje shenje e jetes se gjalle nuk pipetiu. Vetem 
heshtje. Ashtu i drobitur u ngrita, vesha rrobat dhe u perpoqa te 
merrja fryme thelle. Cfare po ndodh? -- pyeta veten per te dyten 
here. Ku jam? Kush jam Une? Isha i  rrethuar me nje mije e nje qind 
pyetje dhe me nje sens terrori qe sa vinte e rritej. E tamam ne kete 
pike, syte me kapen edhe njehere fotografine e madhe qe gjate gjithe 
kesaj kohe kishte qene i vetmi deshmimtar. O zot -- mermerita,-- ku e 
gjeten kete fotografi? Hodha edhe nje here syte rreth e perqark per 
t'u bindur ne vetemine time, e palosa gazeten, e futa nen kemishe dhe 
dola. Dielli ndriconte si i cmendur. Cdo gje ishte e cmendur keto 
dite. Pashe rreth e qark por asnje kembe njeriu nuk dukej.  Pa u 
menduar shume mora rrugen per tek krematorium.



E vazhdon Bato i pare


From albana at zool.unizh.ch  Sun Dec 10 11:05:34 2000
From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:05:34 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Korrigjim
In-Reply-To: <200012100504.eBA54BW22339@alb-net.com>
References: <200012100504.eBA54BW22339@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <a04310102b65958b1f721@[130.60.132.46]>

Duke qene se e shkrova pjesen time pa e lexuar ate qe kishte shkruar 
GH (vetem fundin ja lexova) ka dale nje nonsens qe mund ta prishhe 
logjiken e historise. Po e ridergoj edhe nje here te korrigjuar, me 
lutjen qe moderatoret te inkludojne kete version te historise ne 
fund. Thanks. Albana :)



(cut)....   "Nje moment te lutem, une..." tek mundohesha te zgjidhja 
fjalet per te
ndertuar nje fjali pyetese ose FJALINE PYETESE te vetme, Zoti Radovani me
nderpret dhume me thene: "Me fal i dashur, por heres tjeter perpra se te me
marresh ne telefon, hidhi te pakten nje sy gazetes lokale", e cila vertete
ishte e vendosur permbys anash telefonit, te cilen tek e ktheja mbare, munda
te shihja ne faqen e pare nje fotografi te madhe...(Pifto)



O Zot-- mermerita. Ferkova syte si per te shmangur ndonje 
halucinacion spontan dhe i ringula perseri mbi fotografine. Ngela per 
disa minuta pa marre fryme dhe vetem kur ngulcimat e oksigjenit te 
firuar u bene zanore pyeta veteveten me ze te larte -- C'po ndodh? 
Nuk arrita te mbledh mendjen kur nje gurgullime valezoi ajrin -- 
Miredita z. NN. Gruaja me ze ujvare ecte me hapa te ngadalte po te 
sigurt drejt meje. Syte e saj ngjyre mjalti, floket e zeza dhe 
fustani i saj ngjyre gjaku qe flirtonte me linjat e trupit te saj me 
kryqezyan. Miredita -- u pergjigja instiktivisht. Gruaja m'u afrua 
duke me transmetuar molekulat e parfumit te saj, frymen e saj dhe 
ngrohtesine e trupit te saj. Dora e saj depertonte nen kemishe pa 
ndeshur ne rezistence ndersa mjalti i syve te saj kishte ngrire mbi 
fytyren time. Ndersa syte e mi filluan te perendonin syte e saj 
rreshqiten mbi gazete dhe u fiksuan mbi fotografine. Dora e saj 
ngriu, ndersa fytyra e saj me syte te zvogeluara dhe dy rrudha midis 
tyre me veshtroi ne menyre pyetese. "Mos u shqeteso, dhe te lutem mos 
prano as te besh deponime pohuese"-- me kumbuan fjalet e zotit 
Radovani. Ngrita supet, sforcova muskujt e syve ne limitin e tyre 
maksimal dhe e veshtrova ujvaren e kuqe me sy cudie. Ok baby,-- me 
tha dhe ne te qinden e secondes ndjeva lageshtiren e gjuhes se saj te 
me pershkruante gjithe kavitetin e gojes. Aq u desh. I gjithe 
tensioni i mbledhur, frikerat e paranojat u shnderruan ne nje energji 
te marre qe me mbeshtolli ne nje twist mbi te. Ja shqeva fustanin dhe 
u mora ere e thitha  pafundesisht  gjinjte te saj te vegjel ngjyre 
qumeshti. E thithja dhe ...

10 seconda me vone

nuk di me se c'ndodhi ne ato 10 seconda. Di vetem se kur i hapa syte 
e pashe tek qendronte e ulur siper meje, me nje buzeqeshje 
luleshtrydheje. Kjo ishte shume e shpejte -- me tha me nje goje qe 
ishte provokacioni vete. Kush je ti- e pyeta? Une jam mbreteresha 
Teute m'u pergjigj dhe buzeqeshi lehte. Por -- vazhdoi -- njerezit 
thone qe une jam djalli i misheruar ne njeri -- dhe filloi te qeshe 
si e marre. Pastaj, ndaloi te qeshuren per nje minute, m'i nguli syte 
si thike ndersa cepi i majte i buzes i ishte anuar drejt veshit te 
majte dhe tha -- He? Te hipi frika? Nuk kam per ta harruar ate 
moment. Teksa fliste syte e saj u shnderruan ne nje pasqyre. Ky nuk 
jam une -- klitha tek pashe atje fytyren time. Nuk do ta kisha besuar 
kurre qe njeriu mund te ndryshoje kaq shume. Prej atij trupi qe 
zyrtarisht quhej NN dhe qe me kishte transportuar mua deri ne kete 
mengjes te heneje te vitit tim te 35 nuk kishte ngelur asgje. Vetem 
nishani im i zi, ne cepin e djathte te buzes sime te siperme, ai 
nishan qe dikur kishte marrosur Linden, kishte mbetur si i vetmi 
trashegimi e nje epoke te mbyllur. .... dhe kujtimi i Lindes ...

Ku jam? -- peshperita i tromaksur -- Ku jam?. Mbreteresha Teute 
filloi te qeshte si e cmendur. Hahahahaha --- hahahahha -- 
Pafundesisht. E kapa per supesh, e shkunda fort dhe i ulerita: KU 
JAM? E qeshura e saj histerike me perplasej e thate mbi fytyre. Ashtu 
duke qeshur u ngrit, hodhi rreth vitheve fustanin e gjakte te shqyer 
dhe me gjoksin te mbuluar  vetem nga floket e zeza me hodhi nje 
veshtrim te mjalte te fundit dhe u largua duke qeshur -- HAHAHHA. Mos 
ik! -- ulerita. Ndihme! Ndihme!

Asgje nuk ndodhi, as nje shenje e jetes se gjalle nuk pipetiu. Vetem 
heshtje. Ashtu i drobitur u ngrita, vesha rrobat dhe u perpoqa te 
merrja fryme thelle. Cfare po ndodh? -- pyeta veten per te dyten 
here. Ku jam? Kush jam Une? Isha i  rrethuar me nje mije e nje qind 
pyetje dhe me nje sens terrori qe sa vinte e rritej. E tamam ne kete 
pike, syte me kapen edhe njehere fotografine e madhe qe gjate gjithe 
kesaj kohe kishte qene i vetmi deshmimtar. O zot -- mermerita,-- ku e 
gjeten kete fotografi? Hodha edhe nje here syte rreth e perqark per 
t'u bindur ne vetemine time, e palosa gazeten, e futa nen kemishe dhe 
dola. Dielli ndriconte si i cmendur. Cdo gje ishte e cmendur keto 
dite. Pashe rreth e qark por asnje kembe njeriu nuk dukej.  Pa u 
menduar shume mora rrugen per tek krematorium.



E vazhdon Bato i pare


From AlbanianFestival at aol.com  Sun Dec 10 11:56:35 2000
From: AlbanianFestival at aol.com (AlbanianFestival at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:56:35 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] ALBANIAN FESTIVAL TONIGHT
Message-ID: <33.dbbfaa0.27650fc3@aol.com>



10TH ANNUAL ALBANIAN FESTIVAL IS TONIGHT... 6PM !

LEHMAN CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS
LEHMAN COLLEGE
250 BEDFORD PARK BOULEVARD
BRONX, NY

TICKETS WILL BE ON SALE AT THE DOOR STARTING AT 5PM.  SHOW STARTS AT 6PM 
SHARP.  TICKETS ARE JUST $10, $12 AND $15.

YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS SHOW!!!! 
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From pegas at albmail.com  Sat Dec  9 08:52:18 2000
From: pegas at albmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Kastriot_=C7ipi?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 14:52:18 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Sqarim Kol Palit per ish spiunet e sigurimit
References: <20001208071147.54889.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002401c061e7$4472fca0$02fda8c0@kastriot>

I dashur Kol,
mendimi im per Meten eshte ai qe kam shprehur edhe here te tjera ne liste,
keshtu qe mos ki dyshim se nuk kam ndonje dobesi per te.
Sa per spiunet si Bedriu me shoke, mjere ti nese i merr seriozisht vetem
sepse shajne qeverine.
Me vjen keq qe nuk e disponoj listen e plote te ish-spiuneve te Sigurimit,
shumica e te cileve jane konvertuar me pas ne te SHIK-ut e tani te SHISH-it.
Me kenaqesi do ta kisha bere publike me kohe. Me vjen pakez keq edhe qe nuk
te bind dot se une nuk bej pjese ne ta.
Dua te besoj se ti e di se dy partite e medha, PD e PS, kane qene dhe jane
kunder hapjes se dosjeve.
Besoj se tani e ke kuptuar se me cilen parti jam...
Pershendetje,
Kastriot


From: kol pal
Subject: [Alb-club] Kastrioti: ish spiunet e sigurimit

z. Kastriot
Do te lutesha shume dhe do ta dija per nder, po qe se
do te mundeshe te publikoje ne Alb club listen e ish
spiunve dhe spiunve te sigurimit. Kjo do ti sherbente
me mire demaskimit elektronik te tyre dhe si i tille
do te mbeten ne jete te jeteve te damkosur ne menyre
digitale me vulen e turpit.
Duke te falenderuar sinqerisht per lejen qe me dhe per
te marre shkrime nga te dua, shpreh njekohesisht
keqeardhjen qe spaske pasur drita dhe me keq akoma qe
mitingun e protestes e paske lene pa bere per arsye se
mos ish sigurimsat e shfrytzonin per lavdi personale.

I dshur une s'njohe as Yuve e as Bedriun dhe sdi kur
eshte spiun, por pershkrimi per z. Meta (nuk e di ne e
ke debulese) edhe se pak shpues e ofendues e kishte
qendisur mire fare.
Per mendimin tim eshte nje fatkeqesi kombetare, e pse
jo dhe nderkombatre qe Shqiperia qeveriset nga
kalamajte.
Kol




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From LifeMinders.com at mailgate.lifeminders.com  Sun Dec 10 17:36:27 2000
From: LifeMinders.com at mailgate.lifeminders.com (LifeMinders Health & Wellness)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:36:27 -0400
Subject: [Alb-club] Fat Busting Facts: Holiday Calorie Burners
Message-ID: <200012102327.eBANRtW04906@alb-net.com>

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From epiphanius at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 10 20:22:24 2000
From: epiphanius at yahoo.com (Dan Khazar)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:22:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Alb-club] Dinner on Madison
Message-ID: <20001211012224.2049.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>

DINNER ON MADISON

?They have opened this fancy restaurant on Madison and
53rd, I happened to walk by last week, and couldn?t
believe what my eyes saw. Very much upscale, but still
affordable.? This is my old friend from high school
Tom, speaking to a bunch of people in one of our
boring parties, the only place when such talk about
restaurants would be tolerated. 

?What?s it called, Tom??

?The restaurant? You know, I can?t remember the exact
name, something like ?Cabanera,? or ?La Habana.?
Foreign languages never been my forte.?

Tom is one of these people you seem to be familiar
with, just because you used to be friends with them
some twenty years ago. For some reason, the human
brain will always assume constancy in people and
things, and then perceive change as an unexpected
phenomenon. Must be our fear of dying, that plays
these tricks.

?So it?s a Hispanic restaurant, after all,? says
Yolanda, my fianc?e, for those who do not know.

?It?s not Hispanic!? Tom protests loudly. ?It?s the
dernier cri of dining in New York City. You think I
would have missed that??

?Have you been there already??

?Actually not. But I have peeked from the windows.
Huge, large windows. Ever heard of this latest concept
of the restaurant-pageant? People having a good time
inside, and other people enjoying the show from the
sidewalk. It seems so much New York to me!?

?Luis Bu?uel has that already, in one of his most
famous . . .?

?Le charme discret de la bourgeoisie. I?ve seen that.
But this is the real thing, my friends.?

?Then take us there one day, Tom.? Yolanda says.
?Madison and 53rd, right??

?You?re asking me to take you there, and you want a
confirmation of the address? Thank you very much,
smartie.?

#	#	#

?I shouldn?t have asked him about the address for a
second time,? Yolanda says. ?Maybe he really wanted to
take us there for dinner, one of these evenings. Who
knows? He might be a very lonely man. I wish I hadn?t
hurt him the way I did.?

We?ve decided to try out Tom?s new place tonight,
after just about a week of mild hesitation. There?s
such a cold wind sweeping along Madison, that we can?t
wait until we climb on stage, and start performing for
the sidewalk people.

?I can?t see the two of us and Tom sitting together on
a table for hours. A party is a party, but a dinner is
a dinner.?

?Unless we stumble upon him inside,? Yolanda says. ?He
might have become a regular.?

?What was the name of that restaurant, again??

?Something like La Havana, or Campanella.?

?Cabanera.?

?Whatever.?

?It?s not Hispanic.?

?Who cares if it?s Hispanic? I?m starving here.?

We are already at 53rd street, but there?s no
restaurant in view. 

?He said Madison and 53rd, right?? If there?s anything
Yolanda can?t stand, it?s the wind messing up her
hair. I can see her getting nervous, I can feel her
getting nervous. 

?Yup, you?ve gotten it right.?

We look at the sidewalk across the avenue: a florist?s
shop, a Photo Express, a grocery store. 

?Let?s go on, and check out a few more blocks. It
might be 54th or 55th.?

We proceed, with Yolanda complaining of the cold, the
wind, her being desperately hungry, and eventually
thirsty. And now we?re back at 53rd, clueless.

?Are you sure he said Madison, not Lexington??

I don?t answer, because I am too busy scanning the
area for the hundredth time.

?Remember the description he gave of the place? Tall
see-through windows, upscale people inside, possibly
limousines letting guests off at the door. Gosh, we
could not have missed the liveried parking valet!? I
try to cheer her up a little bit.

?Shut up! What was the name of the restaurant once
more??

?Yolanda, please, I?ve had enough of this. It was a
Hispanic name, damn it. And it?s totally
inconsequential, as far as we?re concerned here.
There?s no such place on Madison. The guy Tom just
cooked it up.?

#	#	#

A warm smell of French fries reaches our nostrils, as
we inhale deeply. A humble McDonald?s is glowing right
behind us, and we?re being targeted by one of its
irresistible olfactory ads. 

?I?m hungry,? Yolanda moans.

?McDonald?s????

?Why not??

?No more fancy, upscale restaurants??

?Can?t we just imagine it? Close our eyes and
imagine??

?Well, I?ll go for it.?

I hold the door for her, and we get inside. This is
not your usual pre-fabricated McDonald?s, though;
whoever designed its interiors, managed to exhibit a
certain artistic pretension, probably just trying not
to hurt the susceptibility of certain people on the
Madison. I guess how many people from our last week?s
party have already ended up here, after failing to
find Tom?s gastronomic El Dorado.

?Hey, these photos are cool,? Yolanda says. 

We both look with amused curiosity at the poster
photos d??poque on the wall, many of which in black &
white, showing innocent scenes from the City in the
thirties. The Brooklyn Bridge much more impressive
than today, the cabs through the fog in front of the
Grand Central, a ferry on the East River, Penn Station
lavishly decorated for Christmas.

Yolanda has stopped at one of the photos, her jaw
dropped in amazement.

?You want to get that quarter pounder, or what??

Her fingernails somehow make it through my coat, and
sink deep in my arm.

I look at the photo. It shows a fancy restaurant,
quite upscale, women in evening dresses, men in
smoking. A celebration dinner of some kind, overall
exuberance in the air, which the obscure photographer
has managed to embalm.

As the caption says, it is ?La Habanera? on Madison,
the night of its lavish opening, in 1922.

(c) 2000 Dan Khazar

*******


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From AlbClubNY at aol.com  Sun Dec 10 21:59:57 2000
From: AlbClubNY at aol.com (AlbClubNY at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:59:57 EST
Subject: [Alb-club] Fat Busting Facts: Holiday Calorie Burners
Message-ID: <63.ed37843.27659d2d@aol.com>


Just curious...who was the smarta*s who registered the AlbClub list address 
with the Lifeminders?

Very funny indeed...and extremely useful. Alb-Club really needs to lose 15 
pounds by New Year's, and not only that, but it also needs some 
cardiovascular workout, vitamin supplements, tightening its tummy, a nosejob 
and then a trip to the mud spas of the Seychelles would be just a blast!

Seriously now...Spare us the junk mail, please. 

AlbClub Moderation Team
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From boikens at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 10 23:19:31 2000
From: boikens at hotmail.com (Boiken Stamo)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:19:31 -0500
Subject: [Alb-club] I giochi del giorno
Message-ID: <F1762UAaTzvb5YI9IJs000123cb@hotmail.com>

IL CUOCO O L'AUTISTA?

La settimana scorsa ho detto a mia moglie:
"Se tu imparassi a cucinare, io potrei licenziare il cuoco!"
Lei ha risposto:
"E se tu imparassi a fare l'amore, io potrei licenziare l'autista!"

PUNTUALMENTE SOLI

"Il problema di essere puntuali e'che non c'e'nessuno li per apprez-
  zarlo."

NUTS TO YOU

Q: What did the elephant say to the naked man?
A: " It's cute but can you pick up nuts with it?"

MEN AND PIGS

Q:What is the difference between men and pigs?
A;Pigs don't turn into men when they drink.

BLONDES AND LIGHTNING

Q:Why was the blonde smiling when lightning struck?
A:She thought she was getting her picture taken.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com



From pegas at albmail.com  Sun Dec 10 01:08:01 2000
From: pegas at albmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Kastriot_=C7ipi?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:08:01 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Bedri Myftari spiun?!
References: <3A2DF67B.2A58@erols.com>
Message-ID: <005401c063bd$dcc460c0$1afda8c0@kastriot>

I dashur Kole
meqe e njeh personin ne fjale qysh nga viti '68, nuk me thua per cfare u
denua heren e pare me burg ai, nese jo per vjedhje?
Akuzen ne shtyp e ka bere Neshat Tozaj nja pese vjet me pare. Myftari nuk e
ka pergenjeshtruar ende...
Me vjen keq qe te zhgenjej per nje person te cilin, mesa duket e ke
respektuar. Por me vjen keq edhe qe thua pa teklif "kush ka mbetur pa dale
spiun ne Shqiperi", a thua se ky tipi eshte me i imunizuari nga nje mekat i
tille... Mesoje, nese nuk e di, se ka njerez qe jane akuzuar ne shtyp dhe me
pas kane fituar gjyqe kunder shpifesve, sic ka edhe nga ata qe kane heshtur
pas akuzave te tilla.
Pershendetje,
Kastriot
PS: A je ti qe shkruan me pseudonimin "kol pal"?



----- Original Message -----
From: traboini at erols.com
To: alb-club at alb-net.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:19 AM
Subject: [Alb-club] Bedri Myftari spiun?!


                  *** Alb-Club Discussion List ***



Me qe Bedri Myftarin( camin e vogel), autorin e
"Fluturzave te bores" e kam njohur qysh me 1968,
perpara se te perfundonte nga "Zeri i Rines"  ne burg,
jam i interesuar te di se mbi cfare bazash ngrihet
dyshimi i spiunit te sigurimit.
 Cfare eshte shkruar ne shtypin shqiptar?
 Dhe kush prej gazetareve, shkrimtareve, politikareve
 ka mbetur pa dale spiun ne Shqiperi.

    Kola





From pegas at albmail.com  Sun Dec 10 00:55:54 2000
From: pegas at albmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Kastriot_=C7ipi?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 06:55:54 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] Poezi nga Ervin Hatibi (ai i verteti)
References: <000301c05f9b$ee013500$3dbfa0cd@computer>
Message-ID: <005301c063bd$db4254a0$1afda8c0@kastriot>

Te dashur miq,
meqe disa anetare dyshojne se "ervini" ne kete liste eshte Ervin Hatibi, gje
qe te tjere, perfshi edhe vete "ervinin", e mohojne, po postoj ketu nje
poezi te Ervin Hatibit, atij te vertetit, sic eshte botuar ne librin e tij
te dyte (uroj te mos mbetet i fundit) "Gjashta mac". Me poshte do te gjeni
edhe tekstin e plote te poezise "Ushtaret e Cecenise", te "ervinit". Besoj
se per te gjithe do te behet e qarte se cili eshte poeti "Ervin never
dies"...
Pershendetje,
Kastriot
PS: Ju kerkoj ndjese qe ne kete version do te mungojne ne tekst shkronjat e
katerta dhe te teta te alfabetit shqip, per shkak te kufizimeve teknike ne
formatin "plain text". Jam i gatshem t'i dergoj ne rruge private kujtdo qe
eshte i interesuar versionet ne shqipe korrekte te poezive te Ervin Hatibit,
si word attachment.
PS 2: I lutem moderatoreve te me falin kete here shkeljen e detyruar te
rregullit te 50 rreshtave. Falemnderit per mirekuptimin.

Ervin Hatibi
"Per Leh Valesen kjo bejte, si edhe per infermieren e ketij porti polak"

Gdansk!
Ben arke e peshkut plot
leshuar mbi beton prej dokerit
Sevastopol-sy te mbyturish
tek i rreh thelle shurra e diellit
Durrrres
ngec barka ne rrasht te reres, a ne leshterike te shurdhuar
Si melcite Detin e Zi, e kam zene e mbaj ne duar

"Portet jane Sodomat e Marksizmit, rrethuar me uje e katran"
Astrahan,
per shembull, tjeter emer porti
Dhe s'di si me shtynte pra ky Leh Valesa
drejt Anarkise e Rakise
tek shihja neper lajme te TV-se se Italise
Pata qare per Leh Valesen
se e dashuroja Greven
edhe gjithe Polonite
se urrej une Qeverite
sepse hic s'e dua Shtetin
dua Solidaritetin
kete kopesht
zoologjik
per njerezit e njerezimit
formen,
me fetare
te vetorganizimit
Dhe kam qene i vogel shume
Turma me mrekullonte
Katolike e pijanike-te gjithe shoket tubuar
Punetore nevrastenike me mustaqe neper duar
Me fund goten!
Poshte Bashkimi Sovjetik!

"Grevat bllokojne Ekonomine, por cojne perpara historine"
(!?)
                                            (ERVIN HATIBI)
Leh Valesa pak nga pak u be kryetar
president polak i shtetit borgjezoproletar
E krejt ma ka prishur
qejfin...
Por, te behet ne dashte Pape
gotat plot me Poloni, do t'i rrekellej prape
Le qe kam edhe plot vese
te tjera:
Jam rritur ne libra Ruse
Atje bora eshte e zeze, cdo izbe eshte nje pus
Dhe muzhiket plot inceste te gjakosin me kamzhik...
Te vetmet flamure paqesh
jane rreza paragrafesh
jane ije te bardha polakesh
Qe i pata adhuruar me fort se Leh Valesen
E kurre nuk e hoqa shpresen

Nje polake, nje polake!...!
Per te fal krejt melcine
E te jete rrumbullake
Leshraverdhe neper shpine
Si kali te me hedhe
nga shtrati ne komodine
perdhe te ma lage rakine
Gdansk! te me pelcase shpatull e koke perdhe
E t'i lutem krej memec te me ktheje ne stere
VARSHAVE? DY HERE VARSHAVE
eshte nje tmerr kater oktave
keto llave, keto llave
Prishjeje
Qe nisen perrua nga kofsha e nga fyti
Perplasen permbi mua mu ne fund te barkut
si i bardhi Drin mbi te ziun Drin
Drin!
bertas Drin!
me djerse e Valese
Zgjuar per turp nga gjumi ne pavionin pese
Kati i trete ne Tirane
i spitalit infektiv, hepatit toksik
Me melcine time ekspansioniste
Dhe embargon e konjakut
Dhe bilirubinen qe s'po me zbriste
Shigjetuar kudo
Si shen Sebastiani
Me age
Ndihmash polake

Dhe ne korridore beh infermierja roje
Domethene ndez driten ajo statuje prej pambuku
Me gershetin e trashe si nje krah pa jete eunuku
Qe i rri ne shpine
Me gjinjte e larte bionde perplot tetracikline
Sipas meje: Rostok
(Dy studente bene qejf gjithe naten
me nje ish-detar ulok)




----- Original Message -----
From: ervin
To: Alb Muslim Usa ; alb-club at alb-net.com ; alb-muslimstudents
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:44 PM
Subject: [Alb-club] Ushtaret e Cecenise


Ne jemi te forte ne rruge te Allahut se ne Islam besojme
Dhe Libri i Allahut eshte hapur e ne e lexojme
E kur te vdesim ne do te vije nje brez i ri
ne do te hyjme ne parajse pa u marre per veprat tona ne llogari
Ne nuk e kemi frike fuqine e ushtrise ruse
Allahu na ka urdheruar te lufojme pa kushte
ne e dime qe Allahu eshte i vertete
dhe parajsen qe na e premtoi do te na e jape perjete
Ne vdekjen tone nuk ka vrasje
ne vdekjen tone nuk ka dhimbje
Shpresat dhe besimi yne ne Allahun sa vijne e shtohen
dhe kenaqesite e kesaj bote dobesohen
Ne jemi si bari i eger sa me shume e pret aq me shume rritet
e shume te tjere do te vijne pas nesh ne rrugen e vertete te ndiqet
Ne cdo betej me armikun gjaku yne rrjedh
por eshte zemra e armikut qe me dhimbje eshte cjerre
Ruset erdhen kety me gezimin ne hava
por negociata nuk kemi ne me ta
si ne Afghanistan deshtimi i pret
 e kur te vdesin ferri perjete
Ushtaret e Allahut do te luftojne deri ne piken e fundit te gjakut
qofte lufte e madhe apo aksione kacaku
Krahasuar me parajsen kjo bote eshte asgje
a nuk e ben kjo poezi te qarte kete
Ne po luftojme ne nje vend te quajtur Kaukaz
me nje superfuqi qe eshte vecse nje frakaz
Urrejtja e armikut nuk eshte dicka e re
Allahu urdheron:Muslimane bashkohuni e vini re
Allahu do ta plotesoje premtimin per ju
Premtimi i Allahut eshte i vertete per ju
Vdekja me e mire eshte vdekja e deshmorit
Te luftosh kunder armikut eshte veper e heroit...




From pegas at albmail.com  Sat Dec  9 23:25:28 2000
From: pegas at albmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Kastriot_=C7ipi?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 05:25:28 +0100
Subject: [Alb-club] =?Windows-1252?Q?Fw:_Arrestohen_n=EB_Gjermani_3_deputet=EB_shqiptar=EB?=
Message-ID: <005201c063bd$da04f2a0$1afda8c0@kastriot>

> I don't buy this!
> Patentat nd?rkomb?tare l?shohen nga Shqip?ria!
> Deputet pask?rkan pasur nevoj? p?r fallso dhe gjerman?t ua paksan
zbuluar?!
>
> Aresya e vertete eshte me siguri tjeter ...
>
>
>
> GSH
>
>                                   .3 Dhjetor 2000
>
>                                     FAQJA E PARE
>
>    Arrestohen n? Gjermani
>    3 deputet? shqiptar?
>
>    TIRANE
>
>    Tre deputet? t? Parlamentit shqiptar kan? kaluar nj? nat? n? birucat e
nj?
>    burgu gjerman. T? ndaluar p?r posedim t? dokumentave falso, ata jan?
detyruar
>    t? paguajn? lirin? me kusht. Nj? shum? parash dhe imuniteti q? mbanin
me vete
>    ka b?r? q? polic?t gjerman? t'i l?n? t? lir?.
>    Lajmi ?sht? konfirmuar nga Agjencia e Gjermane e Lajmeve (DPA). N?
tekstin e
>    shkurt?r t? l?shuar nga kjo agjenci theksohej se ndalimi i tre
deputetev?
>    shqiptar? ?sht? b?r? n? autostrad?n Mynih-Salsburg, pran? kufirit
gjermano
>    austriak. Tre deputet?t s? bashku me nj? person t? kat?rt jan? ndaluar
n? mes
>    t? rrug?s. N? kontrollin rutin? t? dokumentave, t? b?r? nga policia
rrugore
>    gjermane, ?sht? verifikuar falsiteti i patentave nd?rkomb?tare. T?
hipur n?
>    kat?r makina ata kishin marr? rrug?n p?r n? Shqip?ri. Lajmi i cituar
edhe nga
>    nj? s?r? radiosh e gazetash t? m?dha n? Gjermani ka b?r? p?rshtypje n?
rrethet
>    diplomatike. T? kat?r personat kan? q?ndruar nj? nat? n? birucat e
policis?
>    sipas rregullit t? ndalimit q? p?rdorin autoritetet e shtetit gjerman.
N?
>    m?ngjes ata kan? paguar shum?n e parave t? k?rkuar nga policia e m? pas
jan?
>    nisur drejt Shqip?ris?.
>
>    Identiteti
>    T? zgjedhurit e popullit shqiptar, e provuan nj? nat? t? t?r? "freskun"
e
>    birucave gjermane deri sa n? fund kan? mundur t? paguajn? gjob?n ose
si? ?sht?
>    cituar nga agjensia gjermane e lajmeve "kaucion". N? lajmin e dh?n? nga
kjo
>    agjensi nuk p?rmenden emrat e deputet?ve, sepse n? Gjermani ka nj? ligj
q?
>    ruan identitetin. Por emrat e deputet?ve shqiptar? q? m?suan se ?far?
?sht?
>    ligji gjerman do b?hen t? ditur shum? shpejt n? Tiran?. Njoftohet se
ngjarja
>    ka ndodhur dit?n e enjte pik?risht n? autostrad?n Mynih-Salcburg. T? dy
>    ambasadat shqiptare n? Austri e Gjermani nuk kishin ndonj? njoftim t?
ve?ant?
>    p?r k?t? ngjarje dhe e kan? marr? vesh vet?m nga media. Pritet q? nj?
raport i
>    b?r? nga policia lokale e zon?s ku ndodhi ndalimi t? mb?rrij? n? zyrat
e
>    diplomat?ve tan?.
>
>    T? tjer?t
>    Nuk ?sht? hera e par? q? emrat e deputet?ve shqiptar? por edhe t?
politikan?ve
>    p?rmenden n? lajmet e agjensive t? ndryshme apo t? gazetave p?r
skandale q?
>    kan? b?r? jasht? atdheut t? tyre. Ish Ministri i Rendit Spartak Po?i
dhe
>    makina e tij zyrtare p?rfundoi n? faqet e para t? gazetave. Pik?risht
n?
>    kufirin mes Shqip?ris? dhe Greqis?, nga kontrollet e ushtruara nga
policia
>    greke rezultoi se makina me t? cil?n udh?tonte ish ministri i Rendit
>    rezultonte e vjedhur n? Per?ndim. Po?i ?sht? detyruar m? pas t?
vazhdoj?
>    rrug?n me tjet?r makin? por megjithat? la nga pas shijen e keqe t? nj?
>    skandali q? prekte emrat kryesore t? shtetit shqiptar. Tersi i makinave
nuk i
>    ?sht? ndar? VIP-ave t? politik?s shqiptare, nd?rsa n? Itali nj? prej
tyre u
>    ndalua nga policia italiane pik?risht n? nj? makin? me pashaport? t?
>    falsifikuar. N? fillim t? vitit nj? grup parlamentar?sh q? shkonin
drejt
>    Brukselit n?n shoq?rin? edhe t? nj? lideri partie jan? ndaluar nga
policia
>    italiane. N? grupin q? shkonte n? selit? europiane p?r problemet e
Shqip?ris?
>    ishte edhe nj? person shum? i k?rkuar nga prokuroria e policia fqinje.
>    Durrsaku q? k?rkonte t? fshihej n?n petkun e grupit q? kishte marr?
p?rsip?r
>    ta ndihmonte n? kalimin e kufirit "Shengen" u arrestua. Q? nga ai
moment t?
>    gjitha autoriteveve policore n? vendet e Shengenit mor?n urdh?r q? t?
>    kontrollonin imt?sisht ?do grup shqiptar?sh q? l?viznin n?n shtojc?n
>    politikan?.
>
>    Emrat e tre deputet?ve t? ndaluar t? enjten n? Gjermani pritet q? s?
shpejti
>    t? b?hen t? njohur megjith?se do t? p?rpiqen me ?do m?nyr? p?r t?
shuajtur
>    skandalin duke e shnd?rruar n? nj? incident banal.
>
>
gazetari
>
>



From nfn18405 at naples.net  Tue Dec  5 22:35:14 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 19:35:14 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] ervin hatibi
Message-ID: <001401c05f35$d1e7aae0$b9bfa0cd@computer>

Ne emer te Allahut,Meshiruesit,Meshireberesit.
Falenderimet i takojne vetem Allahut,Krijuesit te gjithesise,vetem Allahun adhurojme dhe vetem prej Tij ndihme kerkojme.
Ate qe Allahu e ka udhezuar nuk ka kush ta humbe dhe ate qe Allahu e ka lene te humbur nuk ka kush ta udhezoje.
Deshmoj se nuk ka te adhuruar tjeter pervec Allahut,dhe deshmoj se Muhammedi eshte rob dhe i derguari i Tij ashtu sic ishte Isa(Jezusi) dhe profete e tjere para tij.
Zoti thote ne Kuran:Kjo feja juaj eshte e vetmja fe e Une jam Zoti juaj,ruajuni denimit Tim.El-Muminune-52
Feja e pranueshme tek Allahu eshte Islami,e atyre qe u eshte dhene libri(kristianet cifutet),pasi mesuan per te verteten,vetem nga zilia mes vete kundershtuan.E kush mohon argumentet  e Allahut,le ta dije se Allahu shpejt do `ti jape llogarine.E nese ata polemizojne me ty,ti thuaj:"Une me tere qenien time i jam dorezuar Allahut,e edhe ithtaret e mi"E thuaju atyre qe iu eshte dhene libri dhe injoranteve:"A e pranuat fene Islame?"Nese e pranuan Islamin,ateher e kane gjetur te vertetn, e nese refuzojne,ti ke per obligim vetem tu komunikosh;Allahu i di shume mire punet e roberve.Ali-Imran-20-21
Ne fe nuk ka dhune.Eshte sqaruar e verteta nga e kota.E kush nuk i beson te pavertetat,e i beson Allahut,ai eshte kapur ne lidhjen me te forte,e cila nuk ka keputje.Allahu eshte degjues i dijshem.El-Bekare-256
Thuaj:"Ne i kemi besuar Allahut,edhe asaj qe na u zbrit neve edhe asaj qe i eshte zbritur Ibrahimit(Abrahamit),Islailit,Ishakut,Jakubit dhe pasardhesve.Edhe asaj qe i eshte dhene Musait(Moisiut) dhe Isait()Jezusit) edhe asaj qe u eshte zbritur te gjithe profeteve nga Zoti i tyre.Ne nuk bejme kurrfare dallimi ne mes tyre dhe ne vetem Atij i jemi dorezuar.Ali-Imran-84
O besimtare nese u nenshtoheni pabesimtareve,ata do t`ju kthejne prapa aty ku ishit(ne mosbesim) dhe atehere do te jeni te humbur.Ali-Imran-149)
Profeti Muhammed ka thene:Ai person qe ka keto tre cilesi ka shijuar embelsine e besimit:Kur Allahu dhe i derguari i Tij jane me te dashur se cdo gje tjeter;kur e do dike tjeter vetem per hir te Allahut dhe kur urren te kthehet ne pabesim pasi Allahu e shpetoi prej tij ashtu sic urren te hidhet ne zjarr.
Pas kesaj:
Une nuk jam ervin hatibi dhe nuk mund te hiqem se jam ai.Me revinin kam shume te perbashketa si ne kohen para se te pranoja Islamin ashtu edhe tani.
Me te verte disa njerez mendojne se feja eshte vetem dogme e mit.
E qe kur i lexohen atij ajetet tona thote:"Legjenda te te pareve"El-Muttafifine-13
Thuaj:"Ai eshte Meshiruesi,Atij i kemi besuar dhe vetem tek Ai jemi mbeshtetur,kurse ju do ta kuptoni se kush  njemend njemend eshte ai i humburi.El-Mulk-29
Profeti ka thene:Me te verte Islami filloi si dicka e huaj do te kthehet si dicka e huaj prandaj jepi lajm pergezues te huajve.
Kush jane keta te huaj?Jane ata qe nuk pranohen nga shumica,te cilet besojne Zotin edhe kur te tjeret mohojne bejne mire edhe kur te tjeret te miren e marrin per te keqe dhe te keqen per te mire.Jane ata qe jane te kapur pas te vertetes deri ne vdekje aty kur i vijne engjet dhe i tjone:Mosu frikesoni,Zoti ju ka pergatitur parajsen qe ju premtoi dhe kjo eshte si shperblim per durimin tuaj.
Uroj qe pjestaret e kesaj liste te mendohen me thelle secili me veten e tij dhe te shohin se pse u krijuan dhe te mos bien peng i veprave te tyre.
Ne ua terhoqem verejtjen per nje denim te afert,ne diten kur njeriu shikon se cka i kane sjelle duart e veta,e jobesimtari thote:"Ah sa mire do te ishte per mua sikur te isha dhe."EN-Nebe`e-40
Besimtaret dhe besimtaret jane te dashur per njeri-tjetrin,urdherojne per te mire e ndalojne nga e keqja...Et-Teube-71
Arsyeja e krijimit te njeriut eshte te adhurojne Zotin dhe mos harroni se para jush kane kakuar popuj qe ishin me te fuqishem e me te pasur por as forca as pasuria nuk i beri dobi,qe te gjithe jane nen dhe.
Uroj qe ta kem sqaruar sadopak Islamin dhe te mundohemi te rrijme brenda kornizave te fakteve e argumentave.
Nese doni nuk ju shkruaj me,une detyren time e kam kryer.
ju uroj t`ia kaloni mire dhe ju te new yorkut mbeshtilluni mire se nuk eshte sikendej vere gjithe vitin

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From nfn18405 at naples.net  Wed Dec  6 10:44:57 2000
From: nfn18405 at naples.net (ervin)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 07:44:57 -0800
Subject: [Alb-club] Ushtaret e Cecenise
Message-ID: <000301c05f9b$ee013500$3dbfa0cd@computer>

Ne jemi te forte ne rruge te Allahut se ne Islam besojme
Dhe Libri i Allahut eshte hapur e ne e lexojme
E kur te vdesim ne do te vije nje brez i ri
ne do te hyjme ne parajse pa u marre per veprat tona ne llogari
Ne nuk e kemi frike fuqine e ushtrise ruse
Allahu na ka urdheruar te lufojme pa kushte
ne e dime qe Allahu eshte i vertete
dhe parajsen qe na e premtoi do te na e jape perjete
Ne vdekjen tone nuk ka vrasje 
ne vdekjen tone nuk ka dhimbje
Shpresat dhe besimi yne ne Allahun sa vijne e shtohen 
dhe kenaqesite e kesaj bote dobesohen
Ne jemi si bari i eger sa me shume e pret aq me shume rritet
e shume te tjere do te vijne pas nesh ne rrugen e vertete te ndiqet
Ne cdo betej me armikun gjaku yne rrjedh
por eshte zemra e armikut qe me dhimbje eshte cjerre
Ruset erdhen kety me gezimin ne hava
por negociata nuk kemi ne me ta
si ne Afghanistan deshtimi i pret
 e kur te vdesin ferri perjete
Ushtaret e Allahut do te luftojne deri ne piken e fundit te gjakut
qofte lufte e madhe apo aksione kacaku
Krahasuar me parajsen kjo bote eshte asgje
a nuk e ben kjo poezi te qarte kete
Ne po luftojme ne nje vend te quajtur Kaukaz
me nje superfuqi qe eshte vecse nje frakaz
Urrejtja e armikut nuk eshte dicka e re
Allahu urdheron:Muslimane bashkohuni e vini re
Allahu do ta plotesoje premtimin per ju
Premtimi i Allahut eshte i vertete per ju
Vdekja me e mire eshte vdekja e deshmorit
Te luftosh kunder armikut eshte veper e heroit...
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