From albana at zool.unizh.ch Mon Jun 19 03:07:18 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:07:18 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Alb-club] Interviste e Kryeministrit In-Reply-To: <200006170403.e5H43HQ04124@alb-net.com> Message-ID: Alban, intervista me kryeministrin (aty ku ai fliste per Van Dammin dhe Schwarzenegger si heronjte e tij), botuar ne liste kohe me pare, ishte nje krijim i imi, nga fillimi deri ne fund. Une kujtova, edhe nga disa reagime te anetareve te listes, qe kjo ishte e qarte dhe e vetekuptueshme ne atmosferen humoristike ku edhe u ngjiz intervista. Altin Lame, mesazhi juaj me titull albana, albana, albana flet me shume per ty se sa per mua. Ne kete pike mua nuk me ka ngelur shume vetem te te drejtoj pyetjen: me cilen kategori te meposhtme e identifikove veten zoti Lame? >"Liria e fjales nuk eshte qe disa psikopate, arrogante, halucinante, >injorante, nacionaliste, sharlatane, fondamentaliste, pseudointelektuale, >qe disa njerez te cvleresuar nga cdo element sensitiviteti njerezor dhe te >boshatisur nga cdo ndjenje respekti per dinjitetin personal te vrasin >dinjitetin e secilit nga ne qe jemi lene te pafuqishem perpara nje >helmatisje te tille." Per grupin moderues: Une kam derguar disa mesazhe ne liste gjate fundit te javes dhe ato nuk jane bere publike, po keshtu une vete nuk kam marre sherbim digesti keto dy ditet e fundit. Behet fjale per ndonje difekt teknik apo jam vene nen moderim per te perligjur lojen pa rregulla te lirise se fjales se Alb-club-it? Albana From Dritan68 at aol.com Mon Jun 19 10:15:29 2000 From: Dritan68 at aol.com (Dritan68 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:15:29 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Fwd: (no subject) Message-ID: <25.7230461.267f8501@aol.com> In a message dated 6/19/00 8:55:21 AM Central Daylight Time, URAN37 at aol.com writes: << Metal Research would have invested $75m over five years to create a closed-circle raw mineral extraction to metal production. It was to=20 reactivate copper mines in Vlahne and Prrollaj in the north-eastern region of Has, open new copper resources in Munella, Karma and Perlat, and restart the plant of Rubik and that of Shkodra. >> Me duket arsyeja qe kjo kompani u terhoq sipas Reuter ishte cmimi i ulet i bakrit ne tregun nderkombetar.Megjithate shqiptaret nuk ka pse te presin gjithcka nga investimet e huaja.Ne vend hyjne rreth 500 milione dollare cash ne vit nga emigrantet.Kjo e ardhur duhet te investohet ne vend nepermjet shoqerive aksionere.Nqs korporata e bakrit dhe e kromit kthehen ne shoqeri aksionere , fare mire mund te leshojne aksione dhe bonde duke krijuar keshtu kapitalin e nevojshem per te rifilluar prodhimin.Bakri eshte metal i rendesishem , cmimi i tij mund te jete i ulet ne kete moment per shkak te kerkeses se ulet por kur bota te dale nga recesion atehere kerkesa dhe cmimi i tij do te rriten.ne kete aspekt nuk ka pse minierat e bakrit te shiten per nje cope buke te huajve por te kthehen publike dhe te mbeten ne pronesi te shqiptareve. From pifto at ngi.de Mon Jun 19 09:34:36 2000 From: pifto at ngi.de (GH) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:34:36 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] Kerkohet nje mjek ! ! ! Message-ID: <000d01bfd9f4$19f075a0$5107993e@000751651040062214124630001> Kerkoj te kontaktoj sa me shpejt qe te jete e mundur me nje mjek psikiater, i cili flet shqip ne hapsieren K?ln - Basel ; Stra?burg - Mynih. Ju lutem kontaktoni direkt me mua, per te sqaruar hollesite e tjera. Falemnderit GH From Era18 at aol.com Mon Jun 19 10:32:11 2000 From: Era18 at aol.com (Era18 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:32:11 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Intervista e kryeministrit Message-ID: <61.4a1e968.267f88eb@aol.com> In a message dated 6/19/00 9:44:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, albana at zool.unizh.ch writes: << intervista me kryeministrin (aty ku ai fliste per Van Dammin dhe Schwarzenegger si heronjte e tij), botuar ne liste kohe me pare, ishte nje krijim i imi, nga fillimi deri ne fund. Une kujtova, edhe nga disa reagime te anetareve te listes, qe kjo ishte e qarte dhe e vetekuptueshme ne atmosferen humoristike ku edhe u ngjiz intervista. >> Lidhur me intervisten e kryeministrit, une kam marre nje e-mail nga keshilltari i tij Zoti Ilir Gjoni javen e kaluar ku na shpjegonte se do te dergonte pergjigjet e nje pjese te pyetjeve shume shpejt dhe kerkonte falje per vonesen e shkaktuar per aresye te axhendes se ngjeshur te Kryeministrit ne kete periudhe. Tani une nuk di se cfare eshte botuar ne Klan dhe i lutem dikujt te me dergoje ne adresen personale shkrimin ne fjale. Sa per ate qe shkruajti Albana, ne se Klani ka menduar se kane qene vertet pergjigjet e kryeministrit, me duket shume shqetesuese dhe nuk do doja kurre qe per shkak te kesaj situata te perfundoje.....fluturon....fluturon.....intervista! From mondib at yahoo.com Mon Jun 19 14:06:14 2000 From: mondib at yahoo.com (edmond baho) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 11:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Kerkohet nje mjek ! ! !..dhe AnilaM001 u gjet! Message-ID: <20000619180614.8463.qmail@web6203.mail.yahoo.com> I dashur GH, Me vjen mire qe me ne fund e kuptove se duhet te kerkosh ndihmen e kompetenteve per gjendjen ne te cilen ndodhesh. Me vjen mire gjithashtu qe tani qe e gjete AnilaM001 (sipas te gjitha gjasave duhet ta kesh gjetur; vetem keshtu shpjegohet qe nevoja e psikiatrit eshte akute ne kete pike, plus leverdise qe mund te ndani shpenzimet e vizites me njeri tjetrin)me ne fund mund te kemi shprese per normalizimin e diskutimeve ne kete liste. Te fala dhe sherim te shpejte te dyve, Mondi > > > Kerkoj te kontaktoj sa me shpejt qe te jete e mundur > me nje mjek psikiater, > i cili flet shqip ne hapsieren K?ln - Basel ; > Stra?burg - Mynih. Ju lutem > kontaktoni direkt me mua, per te sqaruar hollesite e > tjera. > > Falemnderit > > GH > _________________________________________________ > Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com > http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From A4902 at dho.edu.tr Mon Jun 19 11:13:14 2000 From: A4902 at dho.edu.tr (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Shkelqim_AGOLL=DD?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:13:14 +0300 Subject: [Alb-club] Prof. Ramadan Sokoli - 80 vjec Message-ID: Falenderoj nga zemra Altinin per Shkrimin Mbi Intelektualin e shquar Shqiptar Prof.Ramadan Sokolin... Me mirenjohje Shkelqim Agolli From URAN37 at aol.com Mon Jun 19 21:19:57 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:19:57 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] mirnjohje per brezat qe sakrifikuan Message-ID: Shume i emocionuar lexova shkrimin e Altinit per Pr, Ramadan Sokolin. mu kujtuan shume histori qe im vella me tregonte mbi punen monumentale te tij per prezervimin e folklorit Shqiptar. Sa here qe fjala binte per ndonje kenge qe mbante ne vetvete historite mistike, te origjinalitetit , te autorit, te historise apo vendit nga ku vinte debati sillte pa dyshim emrin e Pr. Ramadanit .ne vitet qe dote vine puna e tij do te jete pa dyshim per shume studjues dera qe doti drejtoje ata ne zemer te vlerave te folklorit Shqiptar . Gjej rastin te falenderoj Altinin per respektin qe i ben brezave qe punuan per nje jete te tere te na lene sot nje pasuri te ktille. From Adela0320 at aol.com Mon Jun 19 18:50:15 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:50:15 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Kerkohet nje mjek ! ! !..dhe AnilaM001 u gjet! Message-ID: ky Mondi qenka i vonuar ne procesin e kapitalizimit. 2 paciente nuk ndajne dot nje bill ore mik ... unless shikojne ndonje 1/2 psikiater ... hey by the way u could practice some role playing if u are that desperate to help. From albania at mail.com Mon Jun 19 20:38:40 2000 From: albania at mail.com (Tirana Albania) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Mashtrimi i rradhes qe kerkon te beje DIKTATOR Berisha. Message-ID: <385186989.961461520318.JavaMail.root@web135-mc.mail.com> Vizita e Berish?s n? Franc? n? kongresin e partis? s? Shirakut ka q?n? nj? d?shtim i plot? p?r liderin demokrat. Shirak ka refuzuar takimin me Berish?n, duke shmangurr ?do lloj kontakti me t?. Duket se pas d?rgimit t? ftes?s p?r n? kongres, kryetari i partis? s? Shirak ?sht? penduar duke ndjer? n? k?t? rast edhe pesh?n e kund?rshtimit t? komunitetit nd?rkomb?tar p?r mb?shtetjen e Berish?s. Gjat? gjith? dit?ve t? vizit?s n? Franc?, ku thuhet se ka marr? pjes? n? kongresin e Shirak, pasi burime t? pakonfirmuara sakt?sojn? se ka mb?rritur n? Paris p?r vizit?n e tij vjetore mjek?sore, Berisha nuk ka mundur t? marr? asnj? kontakt me Shirak, madje as me kryetarin e partis?, ?ka l? prapa shum? dyshime n? lidhje me k?t? vizit? t? tij, m? sakt? p?r destinacionin e vizit?s s? tij, pasi vet?m dy vjet m? par?, Berisha n? kongresin e Internacionales kristiandemokrate ?sht? nxjerr? jat? me ceremoni nga presidenti Ruperez, por q? Berisha n? m?nyr? t? paturpshme e ka konvertuar n? nj? vizit? t? suksesshme, madje edhe me fjalime n? k?t? kongres, aq sa e ka detyruar Ruperez t? nis? p?r t? gjitha agjensit? e huaja dhe shtypin shqiptar nj? deklarat? p?rg?njeshtruese, duke sqaruar gjith? episodin n? kongres dhe duke e cil?suar Berish?n nj? mashtrues t? paskrupullt. Gazeta e Berish?s n? Tiran? ka shkruar p?r vizit?n e kryetarit t? fraksionit t? par? n? PD se ai ?sht? takuar me nj? num?r personalitetesh t? partive t? djathta q? kan? marr? pjes? n? k?t? kongres t? partis? s? Shirak, pa cil?suar asnj? em?r, ?ka tregon se Berisha n? t? v?rtet? nuk ka q?n? n? takime bilaterale me k?ta lider? t? partive t? djathta, me gjith? p?rpjekjet disa mujore t? ish-ambasadorit shqiptar n? Franc?, aktualisht shef i misionit t? jasht?m t? PD, p?r t?i siguruar Berish?s nj? vizit? me t? v?rtet? komode dhe me bashk?bisedues. Deri mbr?m? von? Berisha ende nuk ka realizuar asnj? takim, ?ka tregon se komuniteti nd?rkomb?tar, pjes? e r?nd?sishme e t? cilit ?sht? edhe Franca, si edhe partit? e djathta europiane, ku b?n pjes? edhe partia e Shirak nuk kan? ndrysh zeta e Berish?s, n? tentativ?n p?r t? treguar n? vizit? pompoze t? udh?-heq?sit t? saj shpirt?ror, n? m?nyr? tep?r t? pafajshme ka nxjerr? n? sken? edhe sekretin se Berisha nuk ?sht? takuar me asnj? personalitet politik real n? vizit?n e tij n? Franc?. YMER LALA ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From pifto at ngi.de Tue Jun 20 02:32:02 2000 From: pifto at ngi.de (GH) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:32:02 +0200 Subject: Fw: [Alb-club] Kerkohet nje mjek ! ! !..dhe AnilaM001 u gjet! Message-ID: <006601bfda8a$9c0e7b40$3a07993e@000751651040062214124630001> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [Alb-club] Kerkohet nje mjek ! ! !..dhe AnilaM001 u gjet! > *** Alb-Club Discussion List *** > > > > ky Mondi qenka i vonuar ne procesin e kapitalizimit. > 2 paciente nuk ndajne dot nje bill ore mik ... unless shikojne ndonje 1/2 > psikiater ... hey by the way u could practice some role playing if u are that > desperate to help. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: GH To: Xxxxx Xxxxxx Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:41 PM > Hej Xxxxxx, sic mund ta kesh vene re, sapo kam hedhur nje lajm ne albclub per > nje mjek psikiater. Eshte nje djale nga Shkodra, i cili ka nje histori shume > te gjate, por vetem javen e fundit ka ndermarre dy tentativa per te vrare > veten. Une jam ne spital nje dite po dhe nje jo (eshte shume bukur atje ) > dhe me nje mjeke qe fola, ajo kishte nevoje te komunikonte me nje mjek > psikiater shqiptar, per te krijuar nje ide mbi menyrat dhe mundesite e > kurimit ne Shqiperi. Une i thashe, se do te mundohem te kontaktoj me nje > psikiater shqiptar, dhe ata do t'i shkruajne vete nje leter Xxxxxxxx, ku me > teper do t'i kerkojne informacione te rendomta, si per shembull nese dritaret e > spitali psikiatrik i Elbasanit jane te gjitha te siguruara me hekura > apo nese psikiatria shqiptare ka aderuar ne Konvenden Nderkombetare per > Mosaplikimin e Klizmeva me Vaj Recini gjate mjekimit te psikozave depresive. > Te lutem me dergo pak adresen e postes elektronike te tij. > > Falemnderit > > Zzzzzz > > p. s. shume te bukura shkrimet [ cut ] From diana35_1 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 03:44:06 2000 From: diana35_1 at yahoo.com (D.) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] . Re: LUTJE. URAN37 mos precipito! Message-ID: <20000620074406.1220.qmail@web3403.mail.yahoo.com> "zonja djana ne vend qe te pergezosh sakrificat e nje te riu qe me dashuri dhe pasion po konsolidon nje gje te cilen shume llapazane ketu se bejne dot mundohesh te besh ironi me lutjet etua pa vlere." E para e punes une jam femer. Burra si Olsi nuk presin pergezime nga grate, apo jo? Nga ana tjeter une s'jam zysha kujdestare e alb-clubit qe te pergezoj cunat qe zgjedhin nje rruge apo nje tjeter. As dua te di se kush je ti apo Olsi. Une pergjigjjem per te deshmuar se ka njerez qe mendojne ndryshe nga disa te tjere. Tullat e fondamentalizmit qe ka gelltitur Olsi, une s'i gelltis dot. Ceshtje gurmazi: kur e ke te vogel je i detyruar te zgjedhesh c'ha e ta pertypesh mire para se ta gelltisesh. "ndoshta nje dite do te arrish te kuptosh se zgjedhja e Olsit ne jete eshte shume me dinjitoze dhe e moralshme se dikush tjeter qe rri rugeve dhe shoqerohet me drogaxhi ." Une nuk i seleksionoj njerzit nga ajo qe bejne ne jete, sepse shpesh ajo qe bejne s'eshte zgjedhja e tyre. Olsi dhe ai"dikush tjeter qe rri rugeve dhe shoqerohet me drogaxhi ." meritojne te njejtin respekt nga une. Sikur te kish me shume njerez "comprehensible" ndaj tyre qe te mos i gjykonin pa i njohur,por t'iu jepnin nje shans ne jete, bota do me pelqente me shume. "oll you need is (te tregohesh me serioze ne gjykim )" Olsi nuk kthehet nga rruga e zotit nga nje melodi huma ne si "all you need is love". Per mua kjo fraze eshte shume me e gjere se c'e mendon ti dhe Olsi qe me fryu mailbox-in. Cdo gje , nga nje veper arti, tek mendimi per Zotin e deri tek gelltitja e nje luge receli, per mua, ia vlen te jetohet me dashuri. Mundet qe te gjitha keto qe thashe t'i bejme me seriozitet ne vend te dashurise...........por jeta do ishte teper gri dhe mat. ===== D. all you need is love __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From olsi at rocketmail.com Tue Jun 20 07:58:29 2000 From: olsi at rocketmail.com (Olsi) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] nga Olsi per Uranin! Message-ID: <20000620115829.12054.qmail@web2901.mail.yahoo.com> I dashur vella Uran! Pershendetje! Te me falesh qe nuk te kam shkruar me pare, por kam qene pak i zene keto dite me disa probleme, dhe me perkthimin e nje historie te bukur rreth Shqiptareve nga nje orientalist qe i jep historise Shqiptare nje trajtim mjaft me real dhe me ngjyra mjaft te bukura mesjetare te historise se Evropes ne: "HISTORIA E SHQIPTAREVE, NGA ILIRET E LASHTE, NE EREN E ISLAMIT" ne: http://www.egroups.com/message/alb-muslimnews/919?&start=891 ... Histori te cilen shume shpejt besoj se do ta vendos ne homepage-in tim ne: http://www.geocities.com/djalosh Ku mendoj qe ta pajis me disa piktura te bukura nga mesjeta e Ballkanit ... keshtu qe listen tani po e 'skanoja'. :)) Vella Uran! Jam me te vertet i merzitur neper keto listat e internetit kur disa fanatike (e) te baba Janullatosit terbohen me Shqiptaret qe nuk pranojne qe ti puthin doren gjarperinjeve te Athines... por une me ata lloj tipesh kam gjetur INJORIMIN. Jo pse ata mundet te jene ATO, dhe se une nuk pranoj qe te argumentoj me disa nga ATO, por ne shume raste ATO kthehen ne shume histerike, saqe pervec gjuhes se tyre, me ata nuk ha buke ndonje gjuhe tjeter, keshtu qe ne menyre qe te "save my face" ne publik perpara ketyre lloj njerezish, mendoj se gjeja me e mire eshte me i thene: - Bjeri, lale, bjeri, pse i bie bukur :) Te falenderoje per kohen vella i dashur Uran, dhe shpresoj qe te lexohemi shpejt ne privat. Nese je musliman, me lejo qe te te salutoj si te paret tane te mire Shqiptar kane salutuar njeri tjetrin me: Assalamu aleikum :) sinqerisht Olsi Jazexhi Chiao Kit', Kuala Lumpur __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From diana35_1 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 06:49:42 2000 From: diana35_1 at yahoo.com (D.) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 03:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] kush di te luaje guracokthi? Message-ID: <20000620104942.7320.qmail@web3402.mail.yahoo.com> Me ka marre malli te luaj guracokthi, por nuk me kujtohen rregullat e lojes. A di njeri ku mund te gjej nje "guracokthi kit" qe te kete edhe manualin me hollesira mbi: historikun, origjinen e vertete, kostumin e nevojshem per te luajtur, gjendjen shpirterore te lojtareve,kampionet e sotem e te djeshem, efektet fiziologjike dhe psikike mbi individet e ndryshem, pasojat kur aplikohet me pasion e pa kufi. Faleminderit per interesimin tuaj diana __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From Alban.Tartari at media-stud.ankara.edu.tr Tue Jun 20 08:36:35 2000 From: Alban.Tartari at media-stud.ankara.edu.tr (Alban Tartari) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:36:35 +0300 (WET) Subject: [Alb-club] Shallvaret e gjysherve! poezi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: nga alban tartari hoqem shallvaret qe gjysherit na i kishin lene kur iken, dhe pushket e tyre ne lume i hodhem, se te tjera arme ne shpikem. u zbritem gomareve, qe dikur me ta ngjitnim rruget e fshatit, i lidhem ne hunjte e gardheve, i leshuam pyjeve siper monopatit. i nderruam qylafet, me kapelet moderne qe nje dite ngjeshem ne koke, jane shkruar mbi to mijera emra, Nike, Adidas, Paris, New York... i harruam kenget, qe dikur kenduam ne dasma e gezime, dhe tani tundemi si drunj te shtrember, nen ritmet amerikano-latine... harruam gjithcka. takimet mes rrugeve fjalet pershendetjet, luften e gunave mbi tela, dhe i zgjuam nga gjumi merite, urrejtjet. i hoqem shallvaret, qe gjysherit na i varen para syve kur iken, dhe pushket e tyre me mureve s`varen, se arme te tjera vdekjeprurese shpikem. i hoqem shallvaret, qe bota te na shohe sa poshte zbritem... pershendetje te gjitheve..... albani From A4902 at dho.edu.tr Tue Jun 20 08:07:29 2000 From: A4902 at dho.edu.tr (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Shkelqim_AGOLL=DD?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:07:29 +0300 Subject: [Alb-club] Kasapi i Zemrave Message-ID: > ---------- > From: Shkelqim AGOLL?[SMTP:a4902 at dho.edu.tr] > To: 'Busulla_Letrare at egroups.com' > Subject: [Busulla Letrare] Kasapi i Zemrave > > Ditari i nje kasapi Zemrash > > Dje ishte e hene, > e fillova javen duke thyer nje Zemer > te nje vajze te re nga Tirana, > e bera copa copa me sopaten e dashurise... > > Sot eshte e marte, > e fillova diten duke prere zemren > e nje te riu qe donte atdheun... > e bera copa copa me thiken e atdhe-dashurise. > > Neser eshte e merkure, > dhe une kam ne plan > te ther nje zemer te pafajshme > E ?faj kam une...a nuk jam kasap... ?! > > > gjithe te mirat! > Shkelqim Agolli > > > Lista te tjera Shqipetare: > [Elita Intelektuale Kombetare] > elita-kombetare at egroups.com > [Shkenca dhe Jeta] shkenca at egroups.com > > From dstenia at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 10:18:47 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] AMERICANS, WAR CRIMINALS! Message-ID: <20000620141847.6148.qmail@web4201.mail.yahoo.com> Pershendetje djema, Me thoni ju ngjan si krim lufte ky veprim i amerikaneve gjate Luftes se Gjirit apo jo? Lexojeni dhe me thoni. Materiali eshte pak i vjeter dhe eshte e cuditshme pasi shume prej nesh nuk kemi degjuar kurre me pare per kete. Best, DStenia P.S. Materiali eshte marre nga www.deoxy.org. Fotoja e ngjitur nuk ka nevoje per komente. Incinerated body of an Iraqi soldier on the "Highway of Death," a name the press has given to the road from Mutlaa, Kuwait, to Basra, Iraq. U.S. planes immobilized the convoy by disabling vehicles at its front and rear, then bombing and straffing the resulting traffic jam for hours. More than 2,000 vehicles and tens of thousands of charred and dismembered bodies littered the sixty miles of highway. The clear rapid incineration of the human being [pictured above] suggests the use of napalm, phosphorus, or other incindiary bombs. These are anti-personnel weapons outlawed under the 1977 Geneva Protocols. This massive attack occurred after Saddam Hussein announced a complete troop withdrawl from Kuwait in compliance with UN Resolution 660. Such a massacre of withdrawing Iraqi soldiers violates the Geneva Convention of 1949, common article 3, which outlaws the killing of soldiers who "are out of combat." There are, in addition, strong indications that many of those killed were Palestinian and Kuwaiti civilians trying to escape the impending seige of Kuwait City and the return of Kuwaiti armed forces. No attempt was made by U.S. military command to distinguish between military personnel and civilians on the "highway of death." The whole intent of international law with regard to war is to prevent just this sort of indescriminate and excessive use of force. (Photo Credit: ? 1991 Kenneth Jarecke / Contact Press Images) "It has never happened in history that a nation that has won a war has been held accountable for atrocities committed in preparing for and waging that war. We intend to make this one different. What took place was the use of technological material to destroy a defenseless country. From 125,000 to 300,000 people were killed... We recognize our role in history is to bring the transgressors to justice." Ramsey Clark Ramsey Clark served as U.S. Attorney General in the administration of Lyndon Johnson. He is the convener of the Commission of Inquiry and a human rights lawyer of world-wide respect. This report was given in New York, May 11, 1991. The material in this book was compiled by the Commission of Inquiry for the International War Crimes Tribunal. Most of the material in the first part of the book was originally presented at the first hearings of the Commission of Inquiry in New York City on May 11, 1991. More than 1,000 people attended the hearings held at Stuyvesant Auditorium. Since the announcement of the formation of the Commission of Inquiry, organizations world-wide have come foreward to participate and to offer evidence and testimony. A few selections of this additional testimony from other Commission hearings have been included where space permits. Commissions of Inquiry have been established in fifteen countries around the world, and public hearings where new testimony was presented were held in twenty-eight cities in the U.S. Obviously a great deal of this valuable material could not be presented in the short confines of this book. At the May 11, 1991 hearing in New York, former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark outlined the 19-point indictment of the U.S. government's conduct in the Gulf War that served as the basis of the Commission's work. For seven hours eyewitnesses who had traveled to Iraq during and following the war presented evidence on the extensive and deliberate destruction of Iraq's infrastructure. Compelling video testimony was shown. Images of destroyed neighborhoods, shrapnel and burn victims, dehydrated and undernourished children in hospitals lacking electricity and necessary drugs were diplayed in the photo exhibit. Some of these photos are also included in this book. The Commission of Inquiry for an International War Crimes Tribunal was initiated by Ramsey Clark and the Coalition to Stop U.S. Intervention in the Middle East following Mr. Clark's February trip to Iraq. Accompanied by a video filmmaker and a photgrapher, Mr. Clark traveled 2,000 miles through Iraq during a time when the U.S. was running up to 3,000 bombing sorties a day. He first documented the systematic destruction of the civilian infrastructure, a view later confirmed by a number of other delegations and even by the United Nation's own team of investigators. The Commission of Inquiry was established to gather testimony and evidence on an international basis and to present the testimony in a series of public hearings. Evidence gathered at all these hearings is to be presented to an International Tribunal of Judges on February 27, 2, and 29, 1992 in New York--the one-year anniversary of the war. This book contains in the Appendix the information detailing the extent for the destruction that Ramsey Clark originally presented in a letter to then United Nations Secretary General Javier P?rez de Cu?llar and President George Bush and released to the world press. Other eyewitness reports and passages from several of the international laws and conventions along with U.S. Representative Henry Gonzalez's Resolution of Impeachment of President Bush on the basis of violations of the U.S. Constitution, the United Nations Charter and international laws have also been included. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: torched.jpg Type: image/pjpeg Size: 19021 bytes Desc: torched.jpg Url : http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/alb-club/attachments/20000620/b60015c7/attachment.bin From orienti at hotmail.com Tue Jun 20 10:08:33 2000 From: orienti at hotmail.com (sadat shabani) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:08:33 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Fadils university shop Message-ID: <20000620140833.5428.qmail@hotmail.com> Nga k?ndi im Fadil?s university shop Tregon cilin e ke shok do t? tregoj se kush je ti, thot? nj? fjal? e urt? popullore, mbase e nj?jt? ne t? gjith? guh?t e bot?s. Kjo porosi e urt? vetvetiu imponohet kur merr njeriu t'i analizojw tezat e kritikuesve t? ndrysh?m t? kursit politik t? PDSH-s?. Koh?t e fundit ?sht? hapur nj? front i gjer? kund?r PDSH-s?, ku mercenar? sojesh dhe botkuptimesh t? ndryshme, me nj? orkestrim t? dirigjuar mir? e kritikojn? PDSH-n? dhe drejtuesit e saj duke p?rdorur gjat? t?r? koh?s argumente t? nj?jta. Pos kritikave n? adres? t? PDSH-s? k?ta kritikuc? kan? edhe nj? em?rues t? p?rbashk?t: veprimi n? terrenin kosovar, p?rkat?sisht kontaminimin e opinionit kosovar. Pas ?lirimit t? Kosov?s shum? d?shtak?, demagog?, manipulant?, besa edhe deformues t? paguar t? opinionit publik u bart?n n? Kosov?, p?r t? vazhduar me avazin e vjet?r derisa t? mos zbulohen kush jan? dhe p?r ?ka angazhohen. K?ta persona q? kan? shum? pak kredibilitet dhe ndikim n? opinionin shqiptar? t? Maqedonis?, paraqiten n? faqet e shtypit kosovar me analizat, komentet, komunikatat e tyre plot teza bombastike q? krijojn? huti. Ata din? q? opinioni kosovar nuk i njeh mir?, ashtu si k?tu njihen, prandaj sulmet e tyre i nisin nga terreni kosovar, ngaq? po t'i nisnin nga k?tu, at?her? s'do t? kishte asnj? efekt: atyre k?tu askush nuk u beson. Sa m? shum? q? ata e kritikonin PDSH-n? k?tu, aq m? shum? asaj i rritej rejtingu. Prandaj q?llimi i tyre nuk ?sht? Maqedonia, ku ata njihen si paraja e kuqe, por Kosova ku n? m?nyr? filigranike punohet q? t? delegjitimohet kredibiliteti i subjekteve politike. Ata duhet t'i bindin kosovar?t, pjes?n m? idealiste t? kombit shqiptar se nuk vlen t? flijohen p?r projektet shqiptare ngaq? kudo q? jan? shqiptar?t, aty jan? telashet, sharjet, deformimet. P?r t'i bindur ata duhet folur p?r ??shtjet shqiptare, n? gjuh?n shqipe, qofshin ato edhe t? p?rkthyera nga gjuha serbe, si ?sht? rasti me at? Iso (me at? "O" sipas vokativit sllav q? i zbulon rr?nj?t) Rusi, me Kim Mehmetin q? asnj?her? s'ka qen? i ngroht? p?r k?to ??shtje, apo me at? Milaim Fejzi, ish deputet i parlamentit jugosllav, tash mbrojt?s i paguar i kauz?s private. Se si k?ta t? tre kan? nj? gjerem t? p?rbashk?t, nj? mang?si n? vete, nj?ri sufiks "o" sllav, njeri emrin kozmetik Kim pa kurfar? dometh?nie, tjetri mbiemrin Fejzi, pa sufiksin karakteristik shqiptar "u". Ata gjithsesi do t? ishin t? pav?rejtsh?m n? shoq?rin? tolerante shqiptare, po t? mos ishin mbrojt?s kaq t? ekspozuar, t? panatyrsh?m t? shqiptarizm?s nga vet? shqiptar?t, po t? mos kishin qen? m? katolik? se Papa. N? k?t? varg t? kritikuc?ve hyjn? edhe paradokset e natyr?s tjet?r si bie fjala: i paarsimuar, i pagdhendur prof. dr. Fadil Sulejmani e mbron konceptet dhe standardet e tija t? arsimit nga ato evropiane q? i ironizon me emrin e Van der Stulit. K?ta deformues t? opinionit publik nj? koh? t? gjat? punojn? q? ta bindin faktorin e jasht?m madje edhe vet? shqiptar?t se ata vet? nuk vlejn? asnj? dysh: jan? t? mallkuar t?jen? t? p?r?ar?, t? pap?rgjegjsh?m, cuba grabitqar, t? pakorigjuesh?m, anues delirant p?r veprime kriminogjene. K?ta isoxhinj? se si zun?, ashtu paduruesh?m, papritur, kur PDSH-ja i dha gjith? ato provime t? r?nda politike, sidomos ato lidhur me zhvillimet n? Kosov?, ku ata tash e p?rhapin helmin dhe rrjetin e tyre, t? kumtojn? z?sh?m se edhe ajo, PDSH-ja na pask?sh d?shtuar. K?t? tez? ata e bluajn? n? momentin kur rejtingu i partis? u rrit tejmase, sa q? aktualisht ?sht? parti e dyt? me forc? politike n? t?r? Maqedonin?. Kumtimin e tyre ogurzi ata nuk e mb?shtesin me asnj? argu-ment politik, me asnj? sondazh t? opinionit, madje as me sondazhin privat t? tyre, por me etiketime, p?rkat?sisht mesazhe q? t'i mos i besohet k?saj partie. K?to mesazhe flasin p?r frik?n e tyrejo p?r kredibilitetin, rejtingun e PDSH-s?. K?to skile q? i qepen sken?s politike shqiptare si usbujza, kund?r PDSH-s? fabrikojn? k?to argumente, tashm? t? st?rp?rdorura nga ana e propagand?s serbe: marksiz?m-leniniz?m ose, n? var?si nga mediumi q? p?rpunohet, fundamentalizmin. N? radh?t e PDSH-s? sipas k?tyre pohimeve, ose atyre t? sh?rbimeve t? kund?rzbulimit ende jugosllav t? Maqedonis? qenkan futur grupet ile-gale t? kuq?losh?ve marksist-leninist, ose t? jeshil?ve fundamentalist? q? dirigjojn? tinzisht me kursin politik t? k?saj partie. Pra k?ta t? PDSH-s? q? mb?shtesin projektet evro-amerikane na qenkan anti-per?ndimor. Mesazhi -kujdes prej tyre; -kriminalitet, korrupsion, kontraband? me cig-are, drog?, reketiz?m. Mesazhi: t? gjith? shqip-tar?tjan? t? till? ose sa m? shqiptar? q?je aq m? devijant je. Prandaj nuk ?sht? ?udi pse ky argu-ment ngritet sidomos kund?r atyre grupimeve politike q? veprojn? n? rrafshin komb?tar. Imagjinoni sa tendenca pat deri m? tani p?r njollosjen e U?K-s?. Koh?t e fundit me k?to اalor b?lb?zoi, me nj? maqedonishte t? serbizuar para mediumeve maqedonase edhe ?obani i rektor-izuar i UT-s?, Fadil Sulejmani q? n?nkryetarin e PDSH-s? e quajti kapobandit dhe ftoi autoritetet maqednase ta zbatojn? ligjin kund?r tij. Pra, ky person t? denoncon, ta k?put davan? dhe i fton autoritetet maqedonase ta zbatojn? gjykimin dhe denoncimin e tij; -veprimin kund?r Universitetit t? Tetov?s duke zbatuar metod?n e idealizmit jokritik t? gjith?kajes brenda UT-s?, pa analiza konkrete t? dukurive brenda dhe njollosjes s? gjith?kajes q? synon t? v? n? rregull, t? legalizoj?, nj?her?sh dhe ta transformoj? k?t? institucion t? fadilizuar t? arsimit sip?ror n? gjuh?n shqipe. Fillimisht kjo ide p?r universitet u brumos n? radh?t e q? tash e p?rb?jn? substanc?n e PDSH-s?, pastaj u uzurpua nga Sulejmani dhe Fejzi, gjithnj? pa at? "u" karakteristike t? shqipes n? fund dhe p?r-fundoi si dyqan personal apo grupor i tyre. Po t? mos ishte ashtu, at?her? ata ne interes t? arsimit sip?ror n? gjuh?n shqipe, n? interes t? legalizimit t? UT-s?, te pun?s se deritashme, n? interes t? transformimit evropian t? tij, pun? q? fundja i pret edhe institucionet e tjera t? ngjashme do t? duhej me t? dy duart ta p?rqafojn? projektin e Van der Shtulit, i cili n? esenc? i p?rmban t? gjitha k?to aspekte, pos q? financohet nga fondet evro-amerikane. Nga goja dhe mendja e ndyr? e k?tyre konta-minuesve t? opinionit kosovar, PDSH-ja q? k?t? ??shtje e shnd?rroi n? ??shtje me interes par?sor nd?rkomb?tar, del si anti-UT. T? gjitha ata q? nga jasht?, LSDM, PPD, q? sillnin kushtetuta anti-shqiptare apo q? d?rgonin autoblinda, bul-dozer? apo polic? p?r ta rr?nuar UT-n?, t? gjith? ata q? nga brenda e rr?nonin, e atro-fonin, e fadilizonin UT, duke shnd?rruar n? FADIL'S UNIVERSITY SHOP, pra Branko C?rvenkovski, Imer Imeri (edhe ky e zvog?lon alfabetin shqip p?r nj? germ?), Naser Ziberi (edhe ky), puthadori zulm?madh nga komentet e ATSH-s?, Mahi Nesimi, t? gjith? me nj? goj? flasin kund?r projektit t? Van der Shtulit, te PDSH-s? dhe t? qeveris? q? s'prek njeri, as universitet, as busta t? d?shmor?ve, as iniciativat e tjera qytetare, si bie fjala shoqat?n e sapo t? regjistruar t? ish t? burgosurve, q? sot aspak nuk merret me fatin, risocializimin e an?tar?ve t? vet, por me probleme q? s'ka ka?ik t'i zgjidh?. Sot ata t? gjith? jan? b?r? nje jo kund?r PDSH-s?, se asaj s'kan? ?'i b?jn?, as Van der Shtulit, as Evrop?s, se as atyre s'kan? ?'u b?jn?, por p?r ta kontaminuar hap?sir?n mentale kosovare, eventualsht t? diaspor?s se mos do t? fito-jn? cop? terren p?r allishvereshet e tyre. Kjo ?sht? ajo shok?ni q? trumbeton kund?r PDSH-s?, por mos t? harrojn? ata, prej Brankos e deri te Fadili se mulliri i PDSH-s? t? gjitha ata do t'i bluaj? me nj? dor?. Pra, tregom? k? e ke shok? te tregoi se kush je. Menduh Tha?i. Marrur nga FAKTI. E mart?, 20. Qershor 2000 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From pifto at ngi.de Tue Jun 20 10:06:56 2000 From: pifto at ngi.de (GH) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:06:56 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] nga Olsi per Uranin! References: <20000620115829.12054.qmail@web2901.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501bfdac4$78b905e0$4807993e@000751651040062214124630001> ----- Original Message ----- From: Olsi To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 1:58 PM Subject: [Alb-club] nga Olsi per Uranin! > Vella Uran! > Jam me te vertet i merzitur neper keto listat e internetit > kur disa fanatike (e) te baba Janullatosit terbohen me > Shqiptaret qe nuk pranojne qe ti puthin doren gjarperinjeve > te Athines... ----------------------------------------- Cilet gjarperinj kane duar dhe ku i kane ? GH From dstenia at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 09:17:00 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] WILLS OF THE FAMOUS! Message-ID: <20000620131700.5941.qmail@web4207.mail.yahoo.com> Pershendetje djema, Lexoni pak per testamentet e te famshmeve, dhe mendoni edhe per testamentin tuaj. Mbani mend se njeriu eshte aq i vjeter per te vdekur qe nga momenti qe lind. Best, DStenia P.S. Materiali eshte marre nga Court TV. WILLS OF THE FAMOUS Linda McCartney (1942-1998) On her death in April 1998, Linda McCartney, a crusader for animal rights and vegetarianism, left her substantial fortune to her husband Paul, the former Beatle. Linda McCartney set up a trust that makes her estate virtually exempt from taxes. John F. Kennedy, Jr. (1960-1999) John F. Kennedy, Jr. planned to leave the bulk of his holdings to his wife, Caroline Bessette-Kennedy, or their children. But John and Caroline died together in a plane crash last July without leaving any issue. Therefore, his property will go to the children of his sister, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg. The bulk of his estate is left to the beneficiaries of a trust he established in 1983. Kennedy also left the scrimshaw, or carved whale ivory, set once owned by his father to nephew John B.K. Schlossberg. Kennedy's cousin, Timothy P. Shriver was named executor of the will. Kennedy's estate is reportedly worth $100 million. Joe DiMaggio (1914-1999) According to his will, "The Yankee Clipper" set up trusts for Joseph Jr., his grandchildren Katherine and Paula, and his great-grandchildren, Kendall and Mitchell Stein, and Valerie and Vanessa Hamra. The Steins will receive $250,000 each while the Hamras will receive $500,000 each. The remainder of DiMaggio's estate will be divided among his son and his two grandchildren. Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) When Princess Diana died tragically on August 31, 1997 she left behind a 21.5 million pound (approximately $35 million) fortune, most of which was bequeathed to her sons, Prince William and Prince Harry. The inheritance will be held in trust for the two princes until they reach the age of 30. In her will made public on March 2, 1998, Diana also left 50,000 pounds to her former butler, Paul Burrell, and set aside personal momenta for her 17 godchildren. Marilyn Monroe (1926-1962) The legendary sex symbol, who tragically committed suicide in 1962, left most of her fortune to her friends and family. Warren Burger (1907-1995) The former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court left behind a self-written, 176-word will. He gave his entire estate to his two children. But he failed to give any power to his executors and made no provisions for estate taxes. These apparent oversights will cost the estate thousands of dollars. Doris Duke (1913-1993) The tobacco heiress had a $1.2 billion estate that was the subject of much litigation. A New York judge ordered the removal of two co-executors of Duke's $1.2 billion estate. The court found that Duke's butler Bernard Lafferty was squandering her estate to support his "profligate life style" and that United States Trust Company failed to slow down Lafferty's spending. Jerry Garcia (1942-1995) The leader of the Grateful Dead was a counterculture icon. In his will, he remembers friends and family, giving out personal mementos, including his guitars. Harry Helmsley The New York billionaire real estate magnate Harry B. Helmsley, whose holdings included the Empire State Building and some of New York City's most posh hotels, died Jan. 4, 1997, leaving an estate estimated at $1.7 billion. Except for a bequest to his secretary, Helmsley left his estate to his wife, Leona Helmsley, who is also named as executor of the will. David Packard (1912-1996) The co-founder of Hewlett-Packard left the majority of his holdings, estimated at $6.6 billion, to the charitable foundation named for him and his late wife. The transfer of assets made the David and Lucille Packard Foundation one of the wealthiest charities in the world. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson (1889-1951) The legendary baseball player was permanently banned from the game for his part in the "Black Sox Scandal" of the 1919 World Series. His will was the subject of litigation in 1995 when two charities who were beneficiaries of his wife's estate sued to gain possession of the original because of its value to sports memorabilia collectors. John Lennon (1940-1980) The Beatles' singer, songwriter and guitarist, who sang "imagine no possessions" in the popular hit "Imagine," left most of his property to an estate controlled by his wife, Yoko Ono. Richard Nixon (1913-1994) The only president to resign from office gave specific instructions for the handling and disposal of personal notes and records. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis (1929-1994) As first lady, Onassis planned the restoration of the White House and urged Congress to declare it a national museum. The art and personal possessions she collected have fetched large sums in recent years at celebrity auctions. Elvis Presley (1935-1977) Known as "The King," Presley sold more than 45 million records and starred in 33 motion pictured. He left much of his vast fortune to members of his family. Babe Ruth (1895-1948) "The Sultan of Swat" grew up in an institution for underprivileged boys. Dominating baseball as a home run hitter, Ruth became a national celebrity. Famous for his charitable deeds, he once promised to hit a homer for a hospitalized boy. A year before he died, he established and endowed the Babe Ruth Foundation for destitute children. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From mfatos at hotmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:43:33 2000 From: mfatos at hotmail.com (Fatos Mucha) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:43:33 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] introduksion i rastit. Message-ID: <20000620154334.70142.qmail@hotmail.com> ......Se dija sa kohe kisha qe po luaja, por e kuptova kur u nderua turni i dillerit. S'kisha humbur aq shume, por dhe s'kisha fituar. (Kush ka lozur nga ju blackjack, mbase me kupton me mire). Aty nga ora 11 pm fillova te kem pak fat. Two blackjacks in the row, one split aces, dy tre duar me 19 dhe.......degjoj mbrapa kurrizit nje buzeqeshje femre. Ishte krejt e papritur, flagrante, teper provokuese. Keni provuar ndonjehere qe mendimi: "shpresoj ta kete dhe portretin si kumbimi i zerit, te jete me i shpejte se veprimi mekanik i kthimit te kokes?? _ Exactly!!! Pra ktheva koken me ngadale dhe c'te shihja? Ikone. Tipare teper te bukura qe ulurinin per vemendjen e gjithekujt. Vendosa te vi ne vete nga ky corientim statik, te pakten si shpirt, jo si tru. Sepse truri vazhdonte jashte meje te analizonte pjeset e tjera koherente te asaj qenie. Hi, - i thashe me nje buzeqeshje te pafajshme. Don't be chicken, - she replied back to me, - you are so lucky, put some more! Ashtu bera, dyfishova sasine e parave. -Fitova. Wow, you see pergezime. Rreth tavolines u mblodhen kurreshtare. Perseri fitore, brohoritje, buzeqeshje, fjali te lena pergjysem. Atmosfera u be e kendeshme. Qe ti shprehja mirenjohjen kesaj krijese befasuese, i zgjata dy cipsa me vlere 50 dollaresh dhe shtoj: "Please, I am wining because of you". Oh thanks, -me thote, - you are so generous! Keshtu vazhdova sa here qe fitoja, i zgjasja vajzes pjesen qe i takonte tashme. Ajo qendronte prane meje me nje kenaqesi jo te zakonte dhe shpeshhere e shoqeronte me prekjen e dores. Kur fitoja me prekte ne koke e me thosh: "you are great, you are something". Kur humbisja me prekte ne sup e shtonte: "don't worry, you are going to make it back". Ekzaltimi me kish vene poshte. E humba perqendrimin dhe kontrollin e lojes. Who cares? C'do gje do te fshihej kollaj nga memoria. Vetem buzeqeshja e saj, jo. Fati ne bixhoz, miqte e mi, eshte si dallget. Erdhi momenti kur une po humbisja. Entuziazmi ra. Zhurmat u shuan. Kurreshtaret po largoheshin njeri pas tjetrit. Bashke me ta dhe "Ajo". E ndjeva, por se ktheva koken. Ndarjet me shqetesojne. Pernjehere mu kujtua: " If you think you are beaten, you are". And I really was. Pasi humba gjithshka, u largova nga tavolina e fillova te eci ngadale neper cazino mbi qylymin e bukur e te bute mashtrues, qe tashme po me genjente dhe per peshen trupore. Ishte e vertet. Une isha lehtesuar si nga pesha e parave ashtu dhe nga pesha e lajthitjes. Mireulexofshim, Fatosi. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dstenia at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 12:08:35 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] POLITIKA vs. PORNOGRAFI! Message-ID: <20000620160835.27517.qmail@web4205.mail.yahoo.com> Pershendetje djema, Politika time-out. Te gjithe kemi bindjet tona politike e idete ne lidhje me boten e nuk mund tu'a ndryshojme te tjereve as me argumenta e jo me mesharje e me vulgarizma. Dua te ndryshoj teme. Nuk e di sa prej jush jane jurista, por e imagjinoj se te gjithe kemi pare njehere apo njehere tjeter nje fotografi pornografike, me dashje apo pa dashje. Le te flasim pak per kete fenomen. Kodi penal shqiptar (me vone do tu jap citimin e nenit te sakte) nuk e denon pornografine, vetem nese ajo kryehet ne ambientet e te miturve. Ju si mendoni a duhet ndaluar apo jo pornografia, nes po pse e nese jo pse. Besoj qe tema t'iu interesoje. Megjithate do te me pelqente ideja e ndonjerit per te diskutuar mbi tema te ndryshem kryesisht ne lidhje me ligjin, nese mundeni. Gjithe te mirat per te gjitha ngjyrat e vecanerisht per ata bardh e zi. Best, DStenia __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From dstenia at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 12:11:00 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] SADDAM HUSSEIN WAR CRIMINAL! Message-ID: <20000620161100.13563.qmail@web4206.mail.yahoo.com> Pershendetje djema, A e dini se jo vetem lufta mund t'a mposhte armikun? Gjithashtu se ka shume taktika per te arritur thyerjen e tij? Lexoni pak se si mendohet te hiqet qafe S.Huseini. Best, DStenia P.S. Materiali eshte marre nga The Christian Science Monitor. An Unused American Tactic: Trying Saddam for WarCrimes Warren Richey, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor KUWAIT CITY -- Amid worldwide debate over the effectiveness of bombing as a means to pressure Saddam Hussein, experts say the US and its allies are overlooking a weapon of unlimited power that could help turn the tide against the Iraqi leader.Justice. International law specialists and human rights activists say the US could deliver a blow far more damaging to the Iraqi leader than any bomb, short of a direct hit on Saddam's Baghdad residence du jour. These experts advocate convening a special international tribunal to prosecute the Iraqi leader for alleged war crimes, crimes against humanity, andgenocide. A VICTIM OF SADDAM: Retired refinery worker Dawood Al-Oraier, whose sister died under mysterious circumstances during the 1990-91 Iraqi occupation, speaks outside his friend's barbershop in Kuwait City. 'If they catch Saddam Hussein and they actually get rid of him, I will feel very happy,' he says. (MELANIE STETSON FREEMAN - STAFF) Given Saddam's notoriety it is surprising to many analysts that there has been virtually no recent discussion of attempting to punish the Iraqi leader for his alleged major violations of international lawduring the past decade. The issue arises as the Clinton administration faces growing criticism of its anticipated military assault on Iraq and concerns that widespread American and British bombing might result in heavy Iraqi civilian casualties. International organizations, including the United Nations, claim they have gathered substantial evidence of Iraqi use of chemical weapons in the 1980s and a systematic campaign to eradicate Iraq's Kurdish population. Here in Kuwait, which endured seven months of atrocities following the 1990 Iraqi invasion, the idea of seeing Saddam stand trial is greeted withgreat enthusiasm. "If they catch Saddam Hussein and they actually get rid of him, I will feel very happy," says Dawood Al-Oraier, a Kuwait refinery worker whose sister died under mysterious circumstances during the Iraqioccupation. Former President George Bush once compared Saddam to Hitler. But his administration never took the next step to set up the 1990s equivalent of a Nuremberg-type tribunal. President Clinton's secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, has expressed interest in moving against Saddam in the international legal arena, but she has yet to take any public action.Some analysts say any push to indict and convict Saddam would face opposition from United Nations Security Council members Russia and China. And even the US might balk at the idea out of fear of setting a precedent that could leave American peacekeeping forces vulnerable to politically-motivated charges ofwar crimes. International law experts applaud Mr. Clinton for taking a firm stand against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction during the current crisis with Iraq. But they also say that when a world leader actually uses those weapons, the international community has an obligation under long-established treaties to investigate and punish that criminalconduct. Nuremberg was not a substitute for D-day.' - Ken Anderson, American University law professor andhuman rights activist "After World War II we said, 'Never again,' " says Diane Orentlicher, a war crimes expert and law professor at American University in Washington. "There are certain crimes that can't be countenanced, and if we do not condemn them, we have,in effect, condonedthem." Analysts say it remains unclear to what extent the Clinton administration has pushed for an international investigation of Saddam. But they suggest the same Security Council members who now oppose military action against Iraq are likely to object to atribunal. "There is some question of how sincere the US proposal was, but it illustrates the problem where a quiet veto in the Security Council is able to prevent an issue from going forward," says William Pace, executive director of the World Federalist Movement, an international peace group based in New York. "Up until now any talk about holding Saddam Hussein accountable for [war] crimes has all fallen victim to geopolitics," says Ms. Orentlicher. "There hasn't been the kind of convergence of geopolitical forces that create the groundswell of support for these kinds ofefforts." Part of the reason some nations might be reluctant to press for a criminal investigation of Saddam is that a wide-ranging probe could uncover embarrassing details of close cooperation of certain countries - including the US, Russia, and France - at the same time Iraq was using chemical weapons, developing long-range missiles with chemical warheads, and researching and producingbiological weapons. For example, during the Reagan administration the US provided extensive satellite-generated military intelligence reflecting Iranian troop movements during a critical phase of the Iran-Iraq war in 1987 and 1988. Iraq reportedly used that information to help direct its chemical weapons attacks, actions Washington chose to largely ignore at the time. Washington's big concern in the late 1980s was that Iran might defeat Iraq and the entire oil-rich Gulf would suddenly face a looming Islamic threat fromTehran. Critics of the tribunal approach say even if Saddam were convicted in absentia there would be almost no chance of arresting him. If US bombs can't find him, how would international bounty hunters, they ask? They also say in some cases involving weapons of mass destruction relying on the law is not an acceptable alternative to swift, decisive military action. To get bogged down in courtroom battles might further endanger global security, these analysts say. "Nuremberg was not a substitute for D-day," says Ken Anderson, a Washington-based human rights activist and American University law professor who investigated alleged genocide waged against Iraqi Kurds. In recent years special tribunals were set up to prosecute war crimes in the he former Yugoslavia andRwanda. In addition to those two special cases, efforts are under way to create an international criminal court that would have jurisdiction to prosecute future instances of genocide and war crimes. Details and groundwork for the court are set to be hammered out inJune and July. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From adani at stevens-tech.edu Tue Jun 20 14:03:52 2000 From: adani at stevens-tech.edu (Alban Dani) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:03:52 -0400 Subject: [Alb-club] Employement Message-ID: <394FB208.66BA831F@stevens-tech.edu> First my apologies to the moderators for my badly formated e-mails. Stevens Institute of Technology, a college located in Hoboken NJ, has three open positons. 1- NT administrator 2- Network Technician 3- WEB designer/programmer I do not have details on the last position as it came up this morning on our staff meeting but it requires Apache Web Server and Perl Programming knowledges. If anybody is interested or know others that are please sent your questions and resume to: adani at stevens-tech.edu . Albi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: adani.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 360 bytes Desc: Card for Alban Dani Url : http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/alb-club/attachments/20000620/c7cc2129/attachment.vcf From Annefon at aol.com Tue Jun 20 14:51:19 2000 From: Annefon at aol.com (Annefon at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:51:19 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Kurreshtar te mesoj si doli shfaqja e baletit Message-ID: <8e.6aac302.26811727@aol.com> Tungjatjeta Leonard! Faleminderit nga zemra per pergjigjen e dates 14 qershor. Gezohem shume qe harta artistike e atdheut shqiptar po i kapercen kufijt politik te Shqiperise dhe po zgjerohet meridianeve te botes, duke u shpaluar publikut artdashes boteror vlerat artistike e njerezore te botes shqiptare dhe te vetjeve (individeve) krijues te saj. Zgjerimi artistik dhe kulturor eshte i lejueshem pa na akuzuar per nacionalizem :) po vlerat e mirefillta e kane gershetimin fatlum te njesise autentike kombetare (idiomit shqiptar) bashke me kuptimin e tyre universal, qe i ben ato te admirueshme per publikun e gjere boteror. Besoj se, pas ushtrimeve rraskapitese, eshte nje lumturi e vecante te kaptoni majat artistike te artit te baletit, dhe njekohesisht te keni nderin te perfaqesoni temperamentin dhe shpirtin e atdheut tone te perbashket _Shqiperise, e cila i fali botes botes krijuesit e saj te rralle, te cilet ajo vete i krijoi ne gjirin e saj. Kjo me ben te besoj se artistet e medhenj shqiptare si Moisiu, Ibrahim Kodra, Tefta Tashko, Bekim Fehmiu, Rexhep Mitrovica, Angjelin Prelocaj, Inva Mula, Ehat Musa, e shume e shume te tjere si ju nuk lindet rastesisht, po u krijuat fale dashurise dhe devotshmerise se frymes artistike te vendit te origjines, e cila u misherua praktikisht ne drejtimin e urte e te mencur te priderve, familjes, dhe mesuesve te Juaj te pare te devotshem shqiptare. Eshte i bekuar atdheu qe lind dhe krijon artiste te mirefillte. Jane te bekuar, jo me pak, prinderit dhe familjet, qe ngrisin femije te tyre te talentuar e te vyeshem. Po me se shumti, mendoj, jane te lumtur mesuesit qe iu japin flatra artisteve si ju, qe ne femijeri, qe te mund te fluturoni lart, me plot besim e krenari - si shqipe - ne qiellin e gjere artistik te botes. Duke ju falenderuar Ju, falenderoj Shqiperine, familjet dhe mesuesit e e talentuar e te perkushtuar shqiptare, qe i ndrisin faqen atdheut duke e pasuruar kulturen boterore. Me mirenjohje Ferhat Ymeri Kent, Washington From ParidTurdiu at aol.com Tue Jun 20 15:46:02 2000 From: ParidTurdiu at aol.com (ParidTurdiu at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:46:02 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Shaft Message-ID: Kush pelqen aksion-filmat, duke pare "Shaft", ka rastin te shijoje nje nga prodhimet me te arritura mbi violencen urbane, te koheve te fundit. Jo me kot regjisori Singleton njihet si mjeshter i shquar. "Mission Impossible 2", megjithe yllin Tom Cruise e marifetet teknologjike dhe bile edhe "In 60 seconds", ndonesa permban nje ndjekje me makina vertet ngjethese plus Nicolas Cage, jane para tij vecse inxheksione momentale adrenaline. Kush pelqen gangsta-rap, vlereson vertesine energjike me te cilen ky film percjell jeten jeten e rrugeve te New York-ut, njesoj si ritmet e 2Pac-ut dhe Notorious B.I.G. Samuel L. Jackson aq metalik, luan detektivin Shaft, heroin misogynist te kohes sone, teper fizik, teper te vetecentruar, po aq te shpejte ne gjuhe sa edhe ne dore. Arena eshte konfuzioni racial i Gothamit te vitit 2000, i njohur si "Giuliani time". Nje djale i perkedhelur i bardhe (Christian Bale), per shkak te nje trilli racial, i thyen koken nje te ziu dhe ne perpjekjet per t'i ikur drejtesise futet ne marredhenie me nje gangster latino (Jeffrey Wright) e se bashku me Shaftin qe i ndjek te dy, krijojne nje trio karakeresh te fuqishme e te dhuneshme dhe aq magnetike per spektatorin (nje casting me i persosur zor se mund te gjendej). Por motivi i filmit nuk eshte racizmi. Ngjyrat raciale dhe etnike qe perfshijne komponentin wasp, neger, hispanik dhe italian te mozaikut njujorkez (mungon vetem ai cifut) e qe jane shkruar e drejtuar me realizem e humor, sherbejne vetem si dekor per nje perplasje ku shpalosen tiparet e individit te vitit 2000. Ne kete epoke begatie e paqeje, kur jetesa nuk eshte me problem, kur ideologjite jane shvleftesuar, individi perqendrohet introversialisht ne moralin, shijet, arrogancen, egon, kurajon, deshiren per te shkelqyer ndaj kerkujt por vetvetes. Aq sa, megjithe prezencen femerore ne film (Vanessa Williams), romanca mungon sepse kerkon nje doreshtrirje qe te dy palet pertojne ta bejne. Tamam ne stilin 2000, pothuajse mungojne edhe referencat seksuale. Keto ingrediente perhere te pranishem ne pothuajse cdo film tjeter, ne menyre qellimore dhe domethenese jane zevendesuar ketu me nje miqesi mbi baze projekti ndonese sensuale, por qe ka trajten e ortakerise. E kjo po behet e modes si ne art, ashtu edhe ne jete. Per ata qe si une jetojne ne NY, ky film eshte aq shume "si ne", natyrisht jo ne perleshjet e pergjakshme, por ne mendesi. Te tjeret neper bote, pervec skenave eksituese te aksionit, do te marrin edhe nje shije se c'behet kendej. From ParidTurdiu at aol.com Tue Jun 20 16:53:54 2000 From: ParidTurdiu at aol.com (ParidTurdiu at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:53:54 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] LOLOL! Message-ID: <2b.749e2ac.268133e2@aol.com> A nuk eshte e pabesueshme qe "Klan" ta njohe aq pak Kryeministrin (ne ndryshim nga AlbClub, tenda e Klanit eshte ne Tirane) dhe te mos jete ne gjendje te kape nje humor aq te mirefillte, sa te ngaterroje si autentike pergjigjet-shaka te Albanes nga Zvicra ndaj pyetjeve online per Kryeministrin? Duke patur parasysh formen e shkelqyer fizike (e te pazakonte per nje kryeminister) te shefit te ekzekutivit, pyetjes mbi aktoret e preferuar, Albana i pergjigjet "Shvarceneger dhe Van Dam". Klani, i lumtur qe ra ne material interesant, pak si me hile sepse nuk citon burimin AlbClub, nxitohet t'ia servire copen e shijeshme lexuesit te tij. Hej Klan, te befte mire sapuni qe e more per djathe! From mondib at yahoo.com Tue Jun 20 21:14:19 2000 From: mondib at yahoo.com (edmond baho) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] medical news (or social if you want to classify it that way) Message-ID: <20000621011419.3555.qmail@web6201.mail.yahoo.com> Kush e kishte degjuar kete me pare: Genet e homosexualeve te ashtuquajtura "Gay Genes" qenkan te trashegueshme nga nena. Pra homosekualizmi nuk eshte si pasoje e kushteve shoqerore por njerezit lindin si te tille. Kjo eshte me se e besueshme, sepse vetem keshtu mund te shpjegohet qe kishte homoseksuale dhe ne Shqiperi (ne kishim nje ne klase) qe dukeshin dy ore larg qe ishin te tille, megjithese shoqeria shqiptare e asokohe ushtronte nje shtypje te tille qe ishte e pamundur te mbijetoje po te ishe homoseksual. Jma i bindur qe shume vete (nga ata qe ishin te tille) as qe nuk e shprehnin fare kete ane te seksualitetit te tyre sepse kishin frike, nderkohe qe degjonim mynxyra ne forme thashethemesh nga ata qe kishin qene ushtare. Une per vete nuk di se cfare ndjej per homoseksualet. Megjithe civilizimin e shoqerise amerikane qe duket se ka filluar ta pranoje edhe kete pakice shoqerore me krahe hapur, une s'mund te fsheh ne asnje menyre neverine qe kam per ta, ashtu sic me zor mund te mbaja vite me para ne Shqiperi tundimin qe t'i veshja nje shqelm sa here e shikoja ate djalin qe kishim ne klase qe edhe fliste si femer. Sigurisht qe me kohe jam perpjekur te bind veten se duhet te jete biologjike megjithese pas ketij lajmit me poshte nuk jam i sigurt me. "Canadian scientists have refuted a National Cancer Institute geneticist's claim that there is such a thing as "gay genes" that are inherited from the mother." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rdervishi at hotmail.com Tue Jun 20 20:48:37 2000 From: rdervishi at hotmail.com (Redon Dervishi) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:48:37 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Pornografia eshte pjese e jetes dhe e drejte e njeriut Message-ID: <20000621004837.88697.qmail@hotmail.com> Interesant ai diskutimi i hedhur per pornografine, por ne Amerike gjerat jane me strikte nga c'mund te mendohet, 100 here me strikte se ne Evrope si dhe familjet, sidomos ne suburbs jane shume me konsevatore se familjet evropiane. E them kete si nje njeri qe i ka jetuar te dyja me botet me shume intensitet :) Une them megjithate qe eshte teme teper delikate dhe ka shume per t'u diskutuar. Nuk mund te diskutoj ne planin legal sepse nuk kam background te tille por vendimi i kongresit amerikan per te bllokuar kanalet televizive te orientuara ndaj seksit si p.sh. Playboy Television eshte hedhur poshte nga Gjykata e larte si shtypje e te drejtave te njeriut. ( A nigjut t'gjithe! Kena Xhykaten e Nolte me vete, he burra :) " The U.S. Supreme Court said Congress violated free speech rights when it sought to block sex oriented cable channel.The 5-4 decision said Congress went too far when it required cable TV systems to restrict sex-oriented networks to overnight hours if they do not fully scramble teir signal for non-subscibers" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From DedaArd at aol.com Tue Jun 20 20:55:02 2000 From: DedaArd at aol.com (DedaArd at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:55:02 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Pornografia (for the losers) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/00 8:49:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rdervishi at hotmail.com writes: << " The U.S. Supreme Court said Congress violated free speech rights when it sought to block sex oriented cable channel.The 5-4 decision said Congress went too far when it required cable TV systems to restrict sex-oriented networks to overnight hours if they do not fully scramble teir signal for non-subscibers" >> These people are sick...watching porn on TV! Why can't they get it off the internet like the rest of us? Wake up! It is year 2000! From Private1959 at aol.com Wed Jun 21 00:47:18 2000 From: Private1959 at aol.com (Private1959 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:47:18 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Guracokthi Message-ID: <39.6b792a6.2681a2d6@aol.com> Dijetari i shquar arberesh, Gjepeto Altibassi (i njohur edhe me pseudonimin Jeronimi i Riu), ne vepren e tij shumevellimeshe "Kompendium defrimesh tona popullore -- arti i kohes e lire ne epoken e Skenderbeut" (Compendio di divertimenti paesani nostrani -- l'arte dell'ozio ai tempi di Scanderbeg), jep kete definicion te lojes: << Loje qe luhet ne nje grup ushtaresh me pese guralece, duke hedhur njerin (me te madhin) lart dhe duke marre nje nga nje me shpejtesi kater te tjeret qe jane ne toke, po me te njejten dore >> Sic veren komentatori i shquar i vepres se Altibassit, prof. Ulisse Bassalti, loja kishte per qellim jo vetem kultivimin e cilesive te tilla karakteristike si solidariteti, koordinimi, burreria dhe kameratizmi, por edhe stimulimin e asaj pjese te korteksit te trurit ushtarak qe ka te beje me ndjesite taktile, e pergjithesisht taktike. Prof. Altibassi mendonte se loja e guracokthit ne trojet e Arbrit, me origjine doemos indoevropiane, u zhduk diku andej nga fundi i shekullit XVIII, kur u shkisherua nga Evriadhi, peshkopi grek i Nartes (kete e ka konfirmuar se voni edhe z. Marko Kristo); megjithate, disa germime te kryera poshte e lart nga arkeologu i palodhur prizrenasi Zeke Moikomi, i lene vend hipotezes se po luhej ende -- tashme i njohur me emrin monopolopthi -- ne avllite e Elbasanit te fillimit te shekullit XX, vetem se guralecet tradicionale tashme ishin zevendesuar me lira turke. D. H. In a message dated 6/20/00 9:56:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, diana35_1 at yahoo.com writes: << Me ka marre malli te luaj guracokthi, por nuk me kujtohen rregullat e lojes. A di njeri ku mund te gjej nje "guracokthi kit" qe te kete edhe manualin me hollesira mbi: historikun, origjinen e vertete, kostumin e nevojshem per te luajtur, gjendjen shpirterore te lojtareve,kampionet e sotem e te djeshem, efektet fiziologjike dhe psikike mbi individet e ndryshem, pasojat kur aplikohet me pasion e pa kufi. Faleminderit per interesimin tuaj diana >> From albana at zool.unizh.ch Wed Jun 21 03:24:37 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:24:37 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Alb-Club digest, Vol 1 #539 - 9 msgs In-Reply-To: <200006210401.e5L41vQ20443@alb-net.com> Message-ID: >Message: 7 >Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) >From: edmond baho >To: alb-club at alb-net.com >Subject: [Alb-club] medical news (or social if you want to classify it >that way) >Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com > >Kush e kishte degjuar kete me pare: >Genet e homosexualeve te ashtuquajtura "Gay Genes" >qenkan te trashegueshme nga nena. Pra homosekualizmi >nuk eshte si pasoje e kushteve shoqerore por njerezit >lindin si te tille. Teoria qe homoseksualizmi eshte produkt shoqeror eshte nej teori qe prej shume kohes i perket pseudoshkences. Sot eshte me se e besuar qe homoseksualizmi ehshte nje fenomen natyror, biologjik dhe si i tille nje parameter determinues i tij eshte gjeni. Ndersa qarqe religioze perpiqen ta shnderrojne paramentin gjenetik ne nje arme kunder homoseksualizmit, duke predikuar qe homoseksualizmi eshte nje semundje (qe nenkupton gjene difektoze) ne shkence gjerat shihen ndryshe. Se pari, nuk eshte zbuluar deri me sot as edhe nje gjen qe do te mbushte parametrin "gjen gay" apo "gjen lesbizem". Ekziston nje katalog gjenesh qe primarisht jane pergjegjes per fenomene krejt te ndryshme nga ai i sjelljes seksuale. Duhet theksuar qe ndermjet ketyre gjeneve me te analizuarit jane ata te Drosophila melanogaster. Kur them me te analizuarit, nenkuptoj qe keto gjene jane izoluar, sekuencuar dhe studiuar funksionalisht. Njeri nga keto gjene, qe cau rrugen e shtypit popullor, duke perfshire edhe ate me reputacion, quhet "white"(wh), i bardhe. Ky gjen ka pase qene izoluar qe ne koherat e fillimeve te gjenetikes. Eshte pergjegjes per formimin e ngjyres se syve tek drosophila. Cuditerisht, meshkujt qe jane mutant per kete mutant shfaqin elemente te homoseksualizmit. Cuditerisht, femrat mutante per gjenin "wh" nuk jane lezbike. Po keshtu, nje grup japonez raportoi se fundmi ne Pittsburg, Kongresin Amerikan te Drosophilisteve, qe gjeni Acp70, kur mbishprehet tek meshkujt drosophila i con ata ne homoseksualizem. Mbishprehje e nje gjeni nenkupton mbiprodhimin e produktit te ketij gjeni. Acp70 codon nje peptide shume te shkurter 32 aminoacide te gjate, te quajtur Sex -Peptide (shkurt SP), i shprehur eksluzivisht ne aparatin gjenital mashkullor. Eshte me se e njohur qe SP nuk ka ndonje rol tek meshkujt, perkundrazi, SP vepron tek femrat Drosophila pasi eshte cuar atje nepermjet aktit te koopulimit. SP eshte nje pheromon. (pheromonet jane substanca te prodhuara nga njeri sex qe kontrollojne, modulojne, ndryshojne sjelljen seksuale te seksit tjeter). Eshte shume i veshtire interpretimi i ketyre rasteve dhe nuk perjashtohet qe me shume se nje efekt paresor, shfaqja e homoseksualizmit te jete vetem nje efekt sekondar . Se si behet percaktimi yne seksual eshte nje pyetje qe akoma vertitet ne zyren e hypotezave, megjithate eshte nga te gjithe e pranueshme qe ne njerezit (dhe jo vetem njerezit) jemi kukulla ne duar e gjeneve dhe hormoneve (prodhime gjenike edhe keto). Formimi yne seksual ka dy momente, njeri eshte ai morfologjik dhe i dyti eshte funksional. Menjefjale, nje grup gjenesh (jane shume te tille hypotetike dhe jo te karakterizuar) jane pergjegjes qe nje femije lind mashkull dhe nje tjeter lind femer, gje te cilen ne menyren me te thjeshte e perkufizojme ne baze te pamjes se organeve gjenitale. Por, edhe pse ne jemi te diferencuar ne meshkuj dhe femra, kur lindim ne nuk jemi te tille funksionalisht. Pjekja seksuale, qe do te pasohet me riprodhimin seksual, ndodh gjate pubertetit. Ne kete faze, rolin kryesor e kane hormonet. Jane disa hormone qe e kryejne kete fenomen dhe raportet e tyre sasiore duket te jene vendimtar. Pra, ne se ne fillim diskutohej ne se nje gjen eshte mutant apo jo, sot pyetja shkon me shume ne drejtimin, cfare nivelesh te X apo Y hormon apo proteine jane prodhuar. Jane nivelet, sasite e prodhimit te hormoneve, qe ndoshta ne bashkeveprim edhe me nivelet (sasite) e prodhimeve gjenike akoma te panjohura,mund te cojne ne fenotipe nga me te cuditshmet dhe provokuese per shoqerine njerezore, edhe pse fare normale per boten biologjike. Kjo loje ben te mundur qe psh, nje mashkull te duket me shume si femer, por te jete seksualisht heteroseksual, qe nje mashkull te duket si mashkull dhe te jete gay, qe nje mashkull te jete fiziologjiksht dhe morfologjikisht mashkull, por te ndihet ne koke si femer dhe t'u hyje metamorfozafe kirurgjike per t'u dukur ashtu si imazhi ne koke. Kjo loje ben te mundur qe nje individ te ndihet heteroseksual ne rinine e tij dhe homoseksual ne pleqeri. Albana Kjo eshte me se e besueshme, sepse >vetem keshtu mund te shpjegohet qe kishte homoseksuale >dhe ne Shqiperi (ne kishim nje ne klase) qe dukeshin >dy ore larg qe ishin te tille, megjithese shoqeria >shqiptare e asokohe ushtronte nje shtypje te tille qe >ishte e pamundur te mbijetoje po te ishe homoseksual. >Jma i bindur qe shume vete (nga ata qe ishin te tille) >as qe nuk e shprehnin fare kete ane te seksualitetit >te tyre sepse kishin frike, nderkohe qe degjonim >mynxyra ne forme thashethemesh nga ata qe kishin qene >ushtare. >Une per vete nuk di se cfare ndjej per homoseksualet. >Megjithe civilizimin e shoqerise amerikane qe duket >se ka filluar ta pranoje edhe kete pakice shoqerore me >krahe hapur, une s'mund te fsheh ne asnje menyre >neverine qe kam per ta, ashtu sic me zor mund te mbaja >vite me para ne Shqiperi tundimin qe t'i veshja nje >shqelm sa here e shikoja ate djalin qe kishim ne klase > qe edhe fliste si femer. Sigurisht qe me kohe jam >perpjekur te bind veten se duhet te jete biologjike >megjithese pas ketij lajmit me poshte nuk jam i sigurt >me. > >"Canadian scientists have refuted a National Cancer >Institute geneticist's claim that there is such a >thing as "gay genes" that are inherited from the >mother." From Era18 at aol.com Wed Jun 21 03:31:30 2000 From: Era18 at aol.com (Era18 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 03:31:30 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] "Hey! I am not a queer!" Message-ID: <72.648e14.2681c952@aol.com> In a message dated 6/21/00 12:02:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Edmond Baho writes: << Une per vete nuk di se cfare ndjej per homoseksualet. Megjithe civilizimin e shoqerise amerikane qe duket se ka filluar ta pranoje edhe kete pakice shoqerore me krahe hapur, une s'mund te fsheh ne asnje menyre neverine qe kam per ta, ashtu sic me zor mund te mbaja vite me para ne Shqiperi tundimin qe t'i veshja nje shqelm sa here e shikoja ate djalin qe kishim ne klase qe edhe fliste si femer. >> Keshtu sic e shoh une, aresyeja kryesore per pjesen me te madhe te violences ndaj burrave homoseksualeve eshte se ca burra HETEROseksuale perpiqen t'i provojne, vetes dhe te tjereve, ( dhe nuk di pse eshte e nevojshme kjo) se ata vete nuk jane "te tille". Shkon pak a shume keshtu: (gjithnje perspektiva ime) Burrat, sidomos ata qe jane ne njefare menyre ne ca nenkultura tejet mashkullore te tipit sport, ushtri, polici, zdrukthari, kovac'hane, ndertim, pra perkatesisht sportistet, ushtaraket (oficeret dhe ish-oficeret), policet, zdruktharet, muratoret etj. lidhen midis tyre me nje lloj lidhje shume te fuqishme (e cila mundet nderkohe te jete fare e natyrshme) . Ata luajne futboll bashke, shohin futboll bashke, diskutojne futboll bashke, luajne tavell, poker, shah, domino, pine raki, birre, konjak, duhan, shkojne per peshk, tregojne barcaleta per biondet budallacka dhe gradualisht krijojne nje lloj lidhje midis njeri-tjetrit e cila sa vjen e forcohet, e forcohet me shume. Dhe vertet! Pse jo? Mua me duket si zbavitje e madhe, sinqerisht! Imagjino alternativen e merzitshme te terheqjes se karriges per nje femer ne restorant, "A mund te shkojme ne nje koncert sot?", hapjen e deres se makines, "kravata nuk te shkon fare me kemishen", mbajtjen e palltos," iiiiiii, i parruar!" etj, etj. Pra ata gjejne ne kete shoqeri burrerore gjera substanciale te cilat mungojne ne shoqerimin me femrat. Dhe keshtu kjo marrje shume per zemer e aktiviteteve "ala macho" con ne nje lloj lidhje te ngushte (bonding) qe zhvillohet midis djemve ("just us guys"), nganjehere aq teper sa, pasi kane pire dhe ndonje gote pas nje tavlle te mire e gjejne veten tek mendojne: "E di qe vertet cunat jane per se mbari! Berti per shembull, ka t'nolta ! Une vdes t' rri me Bertin!" ose " Hey, it is fun. Love'ya guys!" Dhe hop! Kjo deklarate e brendeshme e sinqerte ne te cilen e kapin papritur veten i frikeson menjehere. Dhe ne koken e tyre shtojne me shpejtesi :" ...por jo se jam ...hm..ashtu!" (Natyrisht jo te gjithe do merrnin mundimin t'i hynin nje analize introspektive te ndjenjave dhe te monologut te brendshem qe ben cdo njeri...) Pra kjo dileme e cuditeshme del ne siperfaqe papritur .Tani natyrisht qe logjika / instikti / "self-esteem" e do qe ata t'i provojne vetes se tyre, "cunave", familjes, vetes se tyre prape, dhe sidomos vetes se tyre per here te njezete, qe ata nuk eshte se kane ndjenja homoerotike...(te cilat s'po i diskutojme fare ne kete pike a jane pozitive apo negative) Dhe fillon shkallezimi emocional. Dhe nderkohe dilema fillestare: "... por jo se une jam homoseksual...", con menjehere tek : "Ne fakt une i urrej homoseksualet! Te kem t'i fus nje shqelm atij...", dhe vetem nje hap fare i vogel nga: " Une jo vetem qe i urrej e me neverisin, por te kem t'i vras keta homoseksualet nuk ngopem!" Dhe ajo qe ne fakt ata kerkojne te vrasin ne ate moment nuk eshte ai... djali pak i cuditshem (por pak si "morbid" ) aty jashte qe nuk i ka bere asgje, por homoseksuali qe kane frike se mund ta kene aty, brenda vetes se tyre. Dhe Mondi prape : <> Ah, humanizmi i humaneve! Ah keto specie te qujtura "humane"! Te dashur, te urrejtshem, urryes te dashur, barbare, te embel, te poshter, te zgjuar, perverse, bujare, makute, konfuze, idiote, kriminele....shkurt, gallate e madhe. Te vetemet specie qe sistematikisht urrejne, torturojne e vrasin llojin e tyre per kenaqesi apo perfitim. Dhe nuk ka poezi, simfoni, gjethe te kuqerremta ne vjeshte, tango, Shakespeare, natyre te qete ne akuarel qe do ta ndryshoje dot kete ndonjehere. Pike! Dhe po te me pyesni mua? Une me mire do preferoja te kisha ne shoqerine time 50 nga ata "te tillet" qe do shkelmonte me kenaqesi Mondi, sesa nje Deshmitar te Jehovait. Te pakten ata nuk perpiqen te te konvertojne sic bejne keta te bezdisurit e Jehovait. ( kam nje nga keta Deshmitaret ne ndertesen ku jetoj qe nuk ka te shtune qe nuk me sjell nga nje liber apo nuk me flet per konvertim. Dhe prit ndonje dite kur t'i arrije qellimit, sepse sic thote shpesh miku im Parid: "persistence beats resistence", proverbe qe u kthye tragjikisht ne aksiome te padiskutueshme per te kur Paridi i shkrete vete u be nje shembull i gjalle prove. Nje budist, te cilit i ka dhene shtepine me qira nderkohe, arriti me ne fund ta konvertoje me te njejten teknike) From azekolli at hotmail.com Wed Jun 21 10:25:07 2000 From: azekolli at hotmail.com (Arsim Zekolli) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:25:07 CEST Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Demagogues, war criminals! Message-ID: <20000621082507.31444.qmail@hotmail.com> Dalant, kot i ke provokimet. Nese ke se paku nje sy te shendosh mund te verejsh se ne ate foto eshte nje ushtarak irakian, dmth nje njeri qe ka drejtuar tyten e pushkes ndaj nje populli tjeter, ne Kuvajt dhe ne veri te Irakut. Lufta eshte vertet e keqe dhe 'it only helps the undertaker'. Por, nese do te kushtoje pak me shume vemendje ndaj se vertetes, se provokimit, do te mund te kuptoje vet ca gjera me te rendesishme: 1. USA nuk e kane shtyre Sadam-gangsterin te futet ne Kuvajt dhe te terorizon popullaten e atjeshme. Gjithsesi nuk e kane shtyre qe te planifikon edhe invadimin e Saudi Arabise... Keto ide gjeniale jane prone eskluzive e komunist-fundamentalist-demagogut tipik si qe eshte Sadam-gangsteri. 2. Kam pasur rast te shiqoj foto te krimeve qe i ka bere Sadami ne Kuvajt. Por po te pyes ty, Monsieur Agent Provocateur, nese ke pare pamjet e gjenocidit te Sadamit ne veri te Irakut? Fashatra te tera te likuiduara me helme lufte, pamjet e foshnjeve te vrara ne krahrorin e emave te vdekura? Qindra civile te vrare pa asnje pike faji ... 3. Deshem-nuk deshem, duhet pranuar se ndoshta asnje shtet ne bote nuk eshte me ne gjendje qe te pranon krimet e veta te kryera ndaj te tjerve sikur ShBA-te. Pse, mos valle po pret qe 'yjet e civilizimit modern' si Serbia, Iraku, Korea Veriore, Kina, Libija te tundin koken dhe te pranojne se c'kane bere ndaj te tjerve dhe popullit te vet? 4. Edhe une po te rekomandoj te vizitosh nje 'web-site': re?aku.com, gjakova.com, bllaca.com, llapushniku.com, koshara.com, obri.com ... Besoj se nje oportunist sikur ti megjithate do te preferon ndonje site tjeter sikur ai qe rekomandove. Por, kjo eshte e drejta yte. Ndersa e drejta ime eshte gjithashtu te te them: HAJT BRE BAC, SE E DIJME TE GJITHE SE PREJ CILIT BIRUC KE DAL!!! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From albana at zool.unizh.ch Wed Jun 21 07:03:15 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:03:15 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Alb-club] gene gay, part II In-Reply-To: <200006210401.e5L41vQ20443@alb-net.com> Message-ID: >Genet e homosexualeve te ashtuquajtura "Gay Genes" >qenkan te trashegueshme nga nena. Lajmi fillimisht doli nga praktikat psikoanalitike, ku psikiater apo analiste konstatuan se shume nga pacientet e tyre kishin ne familje nje daje homoseksual. Duke konsideruar qe e perbashketa midis nje daje dhe nipit nga pikepamja gjenetike eshte X-kromozom, u arrit ne konkuzionin, qe shenoi nje bum publicitar te papare disa vitete shkuara, qe gjeni gay trashegohet nga nena. Pavaresisht nga vezhgimi interesant i psikoanalisteve, mbeten te papergjigjura dhe te pashpjegueshme pyetjet, se perse atehere, vellezerit e ketyre gay-ve nuk jane gay por heteroseksuale, perse dy vellezer binjake identike kane preferenca seksuale te ndryshme, perse femijet e nje gay dhe nje lezbike jane heteroseksuale? Nje grua dhe nje mashkull kane te njejten pakete gjenike, me perjashtim te gjeneve ne kromozomin Y, kromozom pergjegjes per ekzistencen e seksit mashkull. Ndoshta do dal pak teme ketu, por eshte teper interesant fakti qe mendohet, dhe te pakten nga te dhenat e deritanime nga gjenomi human, kromozomi Y eshte pothuajse i boshatisur nga gjenet. Gjenomi human, me perjashtim te kromozomit 21 nuk eshte sekuencuar akoma i teri, por jane sekuencuar plotesisht gjenomet e Yeast, krimbit C. elegans dhe gjenomi i mizes se frutave, apo ndryshe miza e bananes, D. melanogaster. Eshte interesante qe te tre keto organizma pavaresisht se jane nje qelizore apo shumeqelizore, pavaresisht ne se jane te thjeshte apo te nderlikuar ndajne nje homologji gjenesh qe shkon deri ne vlera 40-50%. Nder te tre keto organizma, D.melanogaster ndan homologjine me te madhe me gjenomin human (me ato pjese te tij qe jane sekuencuar), duke perfshire nje teresi gjenesh qe kodojne proteina, enzima, transduction molecules etj, te involvuara ne procese te tilla si zhvillimi embrional, etablimi i akseve te trupit apo edhe semundje duke filluar nga kanceret e ndryshme deri tek semundjet neurodegjenerative. Sekuencimi i Y te drosophiles provoi ate qe ishte hypotezuar prej kohesh, qe Y eshte pothuajse i zbrazur nga gjenet. Ndersa ngelet mister se si ky kromozon percakton seksin mashkull tek njerezit, dihet se per te qene mashkull duhet te plotesohet kushti qe nje X dhe nje Y kromozom duhet te puqen se bashku ne vezen nga ku fillon zhvillimi i qenies njerezore. Pra nje mashkull ka kombinimin XY, kurse nje femer XX. Eshte me se e qarte qe X i mashkullit vjen eksluzivisht nga nena, ndersa tek femrat kontributi eshte i barabarte per nenen dhe babain, secili i jep asaj nje X kromozom. Por historia nuk mbaron ketu. Ekziston nje proces i quajtur "Dosage compensation" qe sic mund te nenkuptohet nga emri, ben dozimin e produkteve gjenike te X dhe Y. KY mekanizem, per kuriozitet, ekziston ne te gjitha speciet, edhe tek drozophila, edhe pse duhet theksuar qe strategjite qe ky mekanizem ndjek jane te ndryshme nga specie ne specie. Tek njeriu ky mekanizem ndjek nje strartegji shume interesante. Sic e thashe femrat jane XX kurse meshkujt XY. NE se te dy X e femres do te ishin funksionale femrat do te kishin 2 here me shume prodhime gjenike krahasuar me mashkullin qe ka vetem nje X. Ne te vertete vetem njeri nga X eshte funksionale tek femrat, tjetri caktivizohet nepermjet mekanizmit "Dosage compensation". Pyetja eshte cili nga X caktivizohet? I nenes apo i babait? Ne te vertete procesi i caktivizimit duket te jete rastesor, ne nje qelize caktivizohet X i nenes, ne nje qelize tjeter X i babait, duke bere qe femrat te jene as me pak dhe as me shume mozaike gjenetike. Le te kthehemi tek gjeni gay dhe te hypoteza qe gjeni gay trashegohet nga nena. Eshte e vertete qe kromozomin X nje gay, ashtu sic edhe te gjithe meshkujt, e marrin nga nena. Por a eshte ky X- kromozom nene? Kjo eshte pyetja qe asnje nga studimet e deritanishme nuk kane mundur ti pergjigjen. Per te bere te mundur pergjigjen do te ishte i domosdoshem nje eksperiment i tille ku te ndiqej brez pas brezi trashegimia e nje kromozomi X te fiksuar, ne ato raste kur kjo do te ishte e mundur (kujtoni dosage compansation). E pikerisht studime te tilla pothuajse nuk ekzistojne, dhe ehste edhe gati e pamundur te ndiqen histori familjesh ne te kaluaren per faktin qe homoseksualiteti ka qene nje tabu, si i tille i paraportuar dhe si rrjedhim gati inekzistent ne bibliotekat e te dhenave qe zoterohen sot nga shume laboratore te gjenetikes humane. Albana From dstenia at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 07:16:47 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Demagogues, war criminals! Message-ID: <20000621111647.28849.qmail@web4203.mail.yahoo.com> --- Arsim Zekolli wrote: > klanlist - http://www.klan.albnet.net Pershendetje Arsim, > Dalant, > > kot i ke provokimet. Nese ke se paku nje sy te shendosh mund te verejsh > se > ne ate foto eshte nje ushtarak irakian, dmth nje njeri qe ka drejtuar > tyten > e pushkes ndaj nje populli tjeter, ne Kuvajt dhe ne veri te Irakut. > Lufta > eshte vertet e keqe dhe 'it only helps the undertaker'. Por, nese do te > kushtoje pak me shume vemendje ndaj se vertetes, se provokimit, do te > mund > te kuptoje vet ca gjera me te rendesishme: Se pari te falenderoj qe iu pergjigje mesazhit tim. E vleresoj mjaft pasi te gjithe e kemi kohen te kushtueshme. Une e di se c'ka bere Iraku, por kjo nuk justifikon krime lufte. Nuk jam avokat mbrojtes apo provokator i askujt, por nje krim lufte ka kete emer pavaresisht se kush e ka bere Iraku apo US. Ti e di qe ka konventa nderkombetare qe percaktojne se c'lejohet e c'nuk lejohet ne kohe lufte, dhe se nese shkon pertej ligjeve ben krim, e natyrisht duhet te ndeshkohesh. Sesa mund te realizohet kjo, ajo eshte dicka tjeter. > 1. USA nuk e kane shtyre Sadam-gangsterin te futet ne Kuvajt dhe te > terorizon popullaten e atjeshme. Gjithsesi nuk e kane shtyre qe te > planifikon edhe invadimin e Saudi Arabise... Keto ide gjeniale jane > prone > eskluzive e komunist-fundamentalist-demagogut tipik si qe eshte > Sadam-gangsteri. Eshte e vertete, por as nuk po i japin fund njehere e pergjithmone, ashtu si nuk po i japin fund as Sllobodanit te FRY-se. Pra ideja ime eshte: lufta te realizohet sipas rregullave e te cohet deri ne fund. A nuk do te doje t'a shihje Sadamin ashtu si Sllobodanin ne Hage, e jo ne pushtet si c'jane kercenim jo vetem per popullin e tyre, por per gjithe boten. > 2. Kam pasur rast te shiqoj foto te krimeve qe i ka bere Sadami ne > Kuvajt. > Por po te pyes ty, Monsieur Agent Provocateur, nese ke pare pamjet e > gjenocidit te Sadamit ne veri te Irakut? Fashatra te tera te likuiduara > me > helme lufte, pamjet e foshnjeve te vrara ne krahrorin e emave te > vdekura? > Qindra civile te vrare pa asnje pike faji ... Natyrisht qe i kam pare. > 3. Deshem-nuk deshem, duhet pranuar se ndoshta asnje shtet ne bote nuk > > eshte me ne gjendje qe te pranon krimet e veta te kryera ndaj te tjerve > sikur ShBA-te. Pse, mos valle po pret qe 'yjet e civilizimit modern' si > Serbia, Iraku, Korea Veriore, Kina, Libija te tundin koken dhe te > pranojne > se c'kane bere ndaj te tjerve dhe popullit te vet? Jo aspak, por pres qe bota te reagoje, e nuk pres qe te justifikohemi se mire ua beme pasi ashtu na e bene edhe ata ne. > 4. Edhe une po te rekomandoj te vizitosh nje 'web-site': re?aku.com, > gjakova.com, bllaca.com, llapushniku.com, koshara.com, obri.com ... > Besoj se > nje oportunist sikur ti megjithate do te preferon ndonje site tjeter > sikur > ai qe rekomandove. Por, kjo eshte e drejta yte. Ndersa e drejta ime > eshte > gjithashtu te te them: HAJT BRE BAC, SE E DIJME TE GJITHE SE PREJ CILIT > BIRUC KE DAL!!! > Per frazen me germa kapitale nuk e kuptoj se per c'fare e ke fjalen. Te lutem mos fyej njerez qe ti nuk e di se kush jane apo c'fare bejne. Best, DStenia P.S. Edhe njehere falemnderit per pergjigjen. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to kl_list-unsubscribe at listbot.com > > Start Your Own FREE Email list with ListBot. > http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From dstenia at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 07:39:12 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] WANTED VALBONA COBO! Message-ID: <20000621113912.21369.qmail@web4201.mail.yahoo.com> Pershendetje djema, Nuk jua kam thene, po une jam nje admirues i Valbona Cobo-s e do te me pelqente te kisha ndonje foto te saj ne kompjuterin tim. A dini ndonje site te ndonje reviste shqiptare apo greke per te cilen ka pozuar Valbona kur ishte ne Greqi e ku mund te gjej ndonje foto te saj? Ju lutem me ndihmoni nese mundeni. Best, DStenia __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From URAN37 at aol.com Wed Jun 21 07:51:35 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:51:35 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] . Re: LUTJE. URAN37 mos precipito! Message-ID: <28.74746a5.26820647@aol.com> qe je femer e kuptova nga pergjigja qe s`je mesuese dhe kete ekuptoj se shpesh i ben shkrimet duke perdorur fjale ne anglisht ndoshta pasi e ke te veshtire te shprehesh vetem ne shqip por me cudit kur thua :( UNE NUK I SELEKSIONOJ NJEREZIT NGA ATO QE BEJNE NE JETE) me pas ve dhe nje presje per te vazhduar . nga se seleksonohen njerezit moj zonje ? nga rrobat, nga kenget qe pelqejne, apo nga budallalleqet qe thone .? ps: ha pak rrecel qe te te duket shkrimi im gri ( semi ) From albana at zool.unizh.ch Wed Jun 21 09:33:15 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:33:15 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Alb-club] gjeni gay (part III) In-Reply-To: <200006210401.e5L41vQ20443@alb-net.com> Message-ID: Se si percaktohet seksualiteti yne duket te jete nje proces shume me i komplikuar se sa konstelacioni realativisht i thjeshte X dhe Y mund te tregojne. Cfare e ben ate me te nderlikuar? Po kthehem edhe nje here tek pyetja e shtruar ne pjesen II: Por a eshte ky X- kromozom nene? Sigurisht qe eshte do ishte pergjigjja, nga do mund te ishte tjeter? Sigurisht X-i qe meshkujt trashegojne eshte i nenes, por a eshte ky nje X kromozom me histori vetem nene, apo eshte nje kromozom X me nje histori te ndare midis nenes dhe babait? Perse eshte kjo e rendesishme? Kjo eshte e rendesishme sepse fakti qe gjenet percaktojne identitetin e nje organizmi eshte vetem nje pjese e se vertetes. Pjesa tjeter eshte qe organizmat modifikojne gjenet, kromozomet. Ketu nuk behet fjale vetem per mutacione apo akumulime supresoresh, por per modifikime nga me te ndryshme te kromozomeve, te njohura apo akoma te panjohura. Si modifikohen keto X kromozome nga mbartesit e tyre nena dhe babai? SI modifikohet historia e tyre nga brezi ne brez, nga kapercimi ne kapercim? Si influencojne keto modifikime identitetin tone? Keto jane pyetje qe qendrojne thelle shume thelle ne vete identitetin molekular te gjeneve, ne vete identitetin molekular te kromozomeve, ADN-se dhe proteinave apo molekulave te tjera qe e mbeshtjellin ate. Keto jane pyetje pergjigjet e se cilave jane akoma mister ne kete fillim shekulli dhe jane nje nga preokupimet me te medha te shekullit te ri. Ne se vitet 1970-1990 ishin vitet e gjeneraleve, vitet '90 ishin vitet e "Juntave", apo networkeve e thene ndryshe. Cdo te thote kjo. Zhvillimet e saj gjenetika i mori ne vitet '60 kur zbulimi i struktures se ADNse i dha nje hov te fuqishem zhvillimit te teknikave per ta manipuluar ate. Keshtu u be e mundur zhvillimi dhe etablimi i krijimit te mutacioneve, rikthimi i tyre ne gjendjen fillestare, u be i mundur klonimi, sekuencimi e shume teknika te tjera qe bene te mundur qe shekulli te ishte shekulli i biologjise. NE fillimet e kesaj epoke u be e mundur zbulimi nje nga nje i gjeneve dhe zbulimi i funksioneve te tyre, qe coi ne nje konceptim shume te thjehste te cascadave dhe processeve biologjike, shume te ngjashme me ato shoqerore: kemi nje gjen celes, apo gjeneral ne krye, pastaj vjen niveli i dyte i hierarkise me gjene me pak te rendesishem, pastaj vijne te tretet, te katertet e keshtu me radhe. Me cdo gjen te ri te zbuluar, nje kandidat i ri per Cmimin nobel. Euforia nuk zgjati me hsume se njezet vjet, kohe e mjaftueshme per te saturuar te gjithe sistemin dhe per te bere nje katalog gjenesh te vetmuar dhe gjenerale. Ne se vitet 70 dhe 80 ishin vitet e triumfit dhe euforise, vitet 90 ishin vitet e frustacionit por edhe vitet e triumfit te kompleksitetit. Ne keto vite u be e mundur te shihej se faktikisht nuk ka gjene gjenerale, gjene me te rendesishem dhe me pak te rendesishem, por ka nje Junte, nje network gjenesh qe ne varesi reciproke nga njeri-tjetri bejne te mundur ekzistencen e tyre personale, optimizimin e kesaj ekzistence por edhe ekzistencen dhe optimizimin e ekzistences se mbartesit te tyre, organizmit. E bera kete koment per te treguar qe eshte shume e veshtire te mendohet sot qe nje gjen i vetem eshte ne gjendje te percaktoje identitetin e nje organizmi. Po keshtu eshte shume e pamundur qe nje gjen i vetem te jete ne gjendje te percaktoje identitetin seksual te organizmit. Problemi i disa shkencetareve sot eshte qe jane akoma te ngerthyer nga mentaliteti i paraqitjes se proceseve biologjike te nderlikuara ne ekuacione te thjehsta te tipit 1+1=2, nderkohe qe natyra eshte teper me e nderlikuar se kaq dhe i kapercen limitete e nje ekuacioni. Po keshtu edhe ne rastin e gjenit homoseksual. Duke u nisur nga fakti qe kromozomet X dhe Y (gjene te lokalizuar aty) jane te rendesshem per identitetin seksual, vemendja eshte perqendruar eksluzivisht vetem atje, nderkohe qe keto nuk jane te vetmet kromozome njerezore. Cfare bejne te tjeret, sa influencojne te tjeret ne percaktimin seksual te njeriut? Zor se mund te gjesh ndonje pergjigje dhe une nuk di te them se sa laboratore ne bote jane te interesuar ne ndjekjen e kesaj pergjegje, nderkohe qe nuk i mbajne te dy duart numrat e laboratoreve qe punojne vetem me kromozomin X. Ndersa shkencetaret ndjekin trende (dhe po keshtu edhe shoqeria njerezore) natyra nuk ndjek trende, ajo perpiqet te optimizoje ekzistencen e saj ne cdo lloj menyre apo alternative qe ja mundeson kete. Albana From ParidTurdiu at aol.com Wed Jun 21 10:32:28 2000 From: ParidTurdiu at aol.com (ParidTurdiu at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:32:28 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] "Hey! I am not a queer!" Message-ID: <57.757c104.26822bfc@aol.com> In a message dated 6/21/00 12:36:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Era18 at aol.com writes: << Dhe prit ndonje dite kur t'i arrije qellimit, sepse sic thote shpesh miku im Parid: "persistence beats resistence", proverbe qe u kthye tragjikisht ne aksiome te padiskutueshme per te kur Paridi i shkrete vete u be nje shembull i gjalle prove. Nje budist, te cilit i ka dhene shtepine me qira nderkohe, arriti me ne fund ta konvertoje me te njejten teknike) >> Oh jo, s'eshte ashtu. Me ngaterron me ndonje mik tjeter. Budist jam bere qe perpara, kur isha me specializim ne Kine se bashku me shokun Edmond Baho. Ndoqem kursin e tortures kineze per te burgosurit politike, qe ne thelb nuk eshte vecse nje gudulisje deri ne vdekje e kembeve te subjekteve, sipas parimit "persistence beats resistence". Me vone mua m'u prish biografia dhe nuk e ushtrova dot zanatin, ndersa shokun Baho e caktuan te torturoje homoseksualet. From ardi5 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 10:37:27 2000 From: ardi5 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?ardian=20kanina?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Historia perseritet [Nr-2] Message-ID: <20000621143727.24749.qmail@web703.mail.yahoo.com> Pra skenari per asimilimin e popullit Shqiptar ne Ballkan eshte sa i vjeter aq edhe i ri.Kohet e fundit pati zera ne vend qe "Shqiperine ta marre me mire Greqia " sepse ne nuk dime ta rregullojme .......keto zera dolen ne treg prej zbatuesve te skenarit Greke ne Shqiperi ........ata jane "?ntelektuale","politikane","mafioze" sa edhe njerez me "green card" te cilet me qellim apo pa qellim jane vene ne funksion te ketij skenari te erret antiShqiptar........ka njerez qe shprehen qe persona me ide te tilla qe reklamojne rrezikun Greke ne Shqiperi jane njerez shoviniste ,njerez me idee te vjeteruara. E kane gabim,shume gabim apo ndoshta ju nevojiten argumenta per tu bindur.Argumentat jane te shumte qe vertetojne ekzistencen e skenarit per asimilimin e Shqiperise. 1)Zyrat e gjendjes civile ne Shqiperi jane kthyer ne zyra shkombetarizimi, apo ne filiale te Megalidhese Greke.Nuk e kuptoj pse lejohet nje fenomen i tille....Po ! ne nje vend demokratike lejohet ndryshimi i emrit ,cdo njeri ka te drejte ta ndryshoje emrin........po ne rastin konkret Shqiptaret fatkeqesisht kane rene ne gracken e Skenarit te asimilimit dhe per te punuar ne Greqi detyrohen te frekuentojne zyrat e Megalidhese Greke ne Shqiperi .Pra emri nuk ndryshohet nga deshira por detyrohen prej skenarit te asimilimit. 2)Zyrat e megalidhese Greke ne Shqiperi ne Kor?e,Gjirokaster, dhe Tirane apo ne thonjeza Ambasada Greke dhe kosullatat.Kuptohet me lehte beheshe komunist ne kohen e dulles se sa te marresh nje vize Greke neper keto qendrat e Megalidhese me Shqiperi. 3)Reklamat Greke ne televizion. Po ne vendet demokratike reklamohen mallra te vendeve te ndryshme po reklamimi behet ne gjuhen kombetare.Ne Shqiperi behen ne gjuhen Greke. 4)Ngritja e shkollave Greke.Po tha shoku Ruka (ministri i arsimit) shkolla Greke do te ngihen edhe ne ato fshatra ku nuk ka Greke.......para dy muajsh lexova tek "koha jone " qe djali i Rukes studjonte ne nje universitet Greke ,detyrimisht Ruka do ti shperbleje Greket . 5)Prezenca e ushtareve Greke ne Shqiperi Pse nje presence e tille ,ne nuk jemi koloni Greke. Duke pasur parasysh qe ushtaret Greke gjate shekullit te 20 kane kryer masakra te papara ne jug.Ata sot kane nje mision te caktuar ...........misioni eshte paraqitja e Shqiperise si koloni Greke. 6) Pushtimi ekonomike qe po i behet vendit. Firma kote ,si Sarandopollos & Co po grabisisn fondet e caktuara nga komuniteti nderkombetar sepse investimet e tyre jane minimale.Ministri i Financave Anastas Angjeli(pjesemarres dhe foles ne kongresin PanHelenik ne SanDiego ne 1997) ka deklaruar qe ne Shqiperi vendin kryesor do ta zene Greket ne investime.Greket jane katundi i Evropes ,ekspertiza e tyre ne fushen ekonomike nuk i nevojitet Shqiperise,ne na nevojitet eksperienca Italiane,Gjermane etj. 7) Bankat Greke bejne transportin ilegal te parave nga Shqiperia ne Greqi dhe atje i investojne....japin ndonje kredi te vogel ne 99% te rasteve personave te Greqizuar.Pra ato nuk kryejne rolin ekonomik si banka po jane kthyer ne organizata mafioze .e kam pasur lexuar tek gazeta Ekonomia. vijon [Nr-3] Me nderime A.Kanina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From ardi5 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 10:02:25 2000 From: ardi5 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?ardian=20kanina?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Historia Perseritet [Nr -1] !!! Message-ID: <20000621140225.27053.qmail@web701.mail.yahoo.com> 170 vjete politike asimiluese,ndaj 2mijone Shqiptareve qe jetonin ne Greqi u ndoq nje politike e papare antinjerezore,antishqiptare e ngjashme me "endlesongun" Hitlerian.Ishte nje politike shteterore-fetare qe kerkonte zhdukjen e ekzistences Shqiptare ne tokat e tyre ne Greqi.Ne qofte se i referohemi historianit te nderuar Greke Herodotos Greqia perbehej prej ishujve dhe provinces se Athines ,jo shume larg Athines jetonin "Barbaret" sipas Herodotosit (sqarim : fjala barbar ne Greqishten e perdorur prej Herodotosit nenkupton "i huaj " pra "te gjithe personat jo Greke quheshin "barbar" pra te huaj......ndersa shekujt e fundit fjala barbar eshte nje sinonim qe eshte perdorur per te pershkruar dyndjen Sllave ne tokat Shqiptare -Kroate-Rumune ne ballkan dhe prej shekullit te 9 ka kuptim negativ........duke pasur parasysh terrorrin qe ushtruan sllabvet gjate pushtimit te trojeve Shqiptaro-Kroate-Rumune ne Ballkan.E kam fjalen aq shume intensive ka qene politika asimiluese Greke ndaj Shqiptareve Autoktone ne Greqi keto 170 vjete sa shume Shqiptare ndjehen sot me Greke se Greket. ..............Lind pyetja ? ............ Skenari i perdorur keto 170 vjete prej Grekerve i perkete se kaluares apo eshte present edhe sot ? Kjo me duket si nje pyetje retorike!Pse? Faktet jane te shumta qe vertetojne "Perseritjen e Historise" apo me sakte perseritjen e skenarit per te realizuar asimilimin e Shqiptareve ne Ballkan.Ne funksion te realizimit te Skenarit per zhdukjen e ekzistences Shqiptare ne Ballkan po perdoret nje propagande e papare ndonjehere ne historine e lashte Shqiptare.......individe jane vene ne dispozicion te qarqeve te erreta Greke per te diskretituar dhe mohuar ,kulturen,historine,gjuhen,traditat Shqiptare...........sa para pak kohesh po shifja nje fytyre te vuajtur ne televizionin satelitor Shqiptar i cili po kerkonte te modernizonte edhe muziken popullore Shqiptare ,,,,,,,,kerkonte modernizimin e folklorit Shqiptar.........me pak fjale kerkonte zhdukjen e kultures-muzikore Shqiptare ........nga fundi i emisionit mora vesh qe ky hajvan kishte qene ne nje seminar ne Greqi........dhe ishte kthyer pa dyshim me ide te tjera prej Elades. ?fare permban ky skenar ??????????? Kujt i kujtohet para pak kohesh vizitoj fshatrat e jugut Papandreu shoqerohej gjithashtu gjate vizites prej sherbetoreve te tipit Meta,Angjeli & Co. Te krijohej pershtypja sikur ne jug kishte ardhur jo Viktore Emanueli i 2 por Viktore Emanueli 3. Kur erdhi ne Shqiperi Viktore _Emanueli 2 pati pak respekt per kulturen Shqiptare .........po Papandreu apo Viktore _Emanueli 3 nuk tregoj asnje fare respekti ......te krijohej ideja sikur Papandreu po vizitonte ndonje fshat Greke .........megjithese misionet e Viktore-Emanuelave nuk ndryshojne ,qellimet e tyre mbeten te njejta format e veprimit ndryshojne sipas kohes.Pra Historia po perseritet. Vijon me nr-2 Me nderime A.kanina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From LasiewiczN at aol.com Wed Jun 21 10:02:21 2000 From: LasiewiczN at aol.com (LasiewiczN at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:02:21 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] KFOR Web Master on Tribunal Watch Message-ID: <6f.68db8dd.268224ed@aol.com> Beginning today, Major Kristian Kahrs from KFOR in Pristina will be joining the Tribunal Watch bullitan board as a Special Guest. Internet users who would like to join in the discussion with us can sign-on to Tribunal Watch immediately using the instruction at the end of this message. Major Kristian Kahrs is responsible for KFOR's official web pages. The site has been logging over 90,000 hits per week and the international interest in Kosovo is very high. He describes the environment at KFOR by saying "every day is Monday." Please join us in a discussion about KFOR's information policies, recent weapons confiscations, reporting crimes and other duties that confront the international peacekeeping forces in Kosovo. We will continue the dialog for a few days, depending on interest from the readers. KFOR Online Homepage http://kforonline.com/ To join Tribunal Watch, send an e-mail to: LISTSERV at LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU In your message, type in the command: SUBSCRIBE TWATCH-L [name of person] Visitors can easily 'unsubscribe' from the list at any time. Tribunal Watch archives are on-line at: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/ For any assistance, contact Nalini Lasiewicz, Lasiewicz Foundation, LasiewiczN at aol.com From Adis68 at aol.com Wed Jun 21 11:19:05 2000 From: Adis68 at aol.com (Adis68 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:19:05 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Shaft Message-ID: <7a.6e8ca1a.268236e9@aol.com> Pa dyshim qe Shaft eshte nje nga prodhimet me te mira te koheve te fundit. Megjithate kush pelqen Samuel L. Jackson dhe filmat realiste "action" mos te lere pa pare "Rules of Engagement" (besoj se shpejti ne video). Do te keni rast qe midis te tjerave te ri-perjetoni shijen dhe spektaklin e largimit te personelit te ambasades Amerikane (dhe te tjerave) nga Shqiperia. Por ky film si shume te te tjere te koheve te fundit nuk eshte per tifozat e super-heronjve te krijuar nga Stalone, Shvarzenegger, Stallone apo te tjere. Edhe Shaft megjithe sofistikimin e spotit promocional dhe look "sci-fi" eshte nje agjent i thjeshte dhe shume "afer rruges". Qe mos ta zgjas shume ENJOY THE SHOW or whatever you do From ardi5 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 11:19:07 2000 From: ardi5 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?ardian=20kanina?=) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Historia Perseritet [Nr-3] Message-ID: <20000621151907.4445.qmail@web703.mail.yahoo.com> 8)Nuk e di te sakte por me duket se eshte beri aprovimi nga shteti per ngritjen e lapidareve krimineleve Greke te rene gjate masakrave ,vjedhjeve dhe djegjeve qe i bene popullsise se zones kufitare keta kriminele gjate luftes se dyte boterore.Tragjedia Shqiptare nuk perfundon me kaq .....Papandreut apo [Viktore Emanuelit te-3 ] ju premtua qe lapidare do te ngrihen edhe per vrasesit e femijeve ?am prej forcave ushtarake Greke qe rane gjate asaj qe quhet "?am Final Solution " prej shtetit Greke.?do idee Greke aprovohet prej qeverise Shqiptare .......me pak fjale turp kombetar. 9) Me e Rendesishmja !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Roli Kishes Greke ne Shqiperi !!!!!!!!!!!!! Filiali Kishes Greke ne Tirane i drejtuar prej gjarprit Janusllatos punon non-stop ashtu si paraardhesit e gjarprit Janusllatos asimiluan Arvanitasit,apo terrorrizuan zonen kufitare ne fillim te shekullit.Para pak kohesh theksova ate citatin e te mallkuarit ,antiShqiptarit Top 5 ne bote "Nikollas Stavros" i cili shprehej ne librin "Greece and the new Ballkans" qe Pushtimi i kishes Shqiptare ishte hapi me i madh Greke ne Shqiperi ne shekullin e 20.Nje historian Belg me tha para pak vjetesh pushtimi i kishes eshte teper i rrezikshem duke pasur parasysh qe kisha Greke perfaqeson shovinizmin Greke.Janusllatosi ka nje plan disa fazash per shkaterrimin e Shqiperise. !!!!!!!Faza 1!!!!!!! 1)Kalimi i te gjitja kishave momentale sot nen juridiksionin Greke. 2)Mbajtja e meshave neper kisha ne Gjuhen Greke . 3)Ndertimi i kishave te reja sipas modelit Greke . 4)Edukimin dhe arsimimin e femijve ne gjuhen Greke neper manastiret perkatese. 5)Emerimin e femijve Shqiptare me emra Greke. !!!!!!! Faza e 2 !!!!!!!!! 1)Duke pasur parasysh qe femijet Shqiptare tashme me emra Greke,ndjekjen e studimeve ne gjuhen Greke dhe mesimin e historise Greke e cila e ka fshire nga harta Shqiperine ,ky brez kur te rritet nuk do te kete me dashuri per Shqiperine sepse eshte edukuar per te dashur Greqine.Pra Shqiperia eshte diclka e huaj per kete brez. !!!!!!!!!! Faza e 3 !!!!!!! Pas nje periudhe kohe gjarpri Janusllatos do te kerkoje pushtet politike ashtu si kryepeshkopi Greke Kristodulus gezon sot ne Greqi .Pa fjalen e tij nuk aprovohet asnje ligje ne Greqi.Duke pasur parasysh qe brezi i ri ka perjetuar fazen e pare dhe te dyte te Greqizimit dhe ky brez ka kaluar ne asimilim Janusllatosi do ti beje thirrje ketij brezi qe ta mbeshtese ate politikisht ne hapat e tij te erreta. !!!!!!! Faza e 4 "Final Solution " !!!!!!!!! Faza e 4 dhe perfundimtare do te jete e ngjashme me ate qe ndodhi ne Qipro ne 1974.Pra Janusllatosi do te beje thirrje per te shkaterruar popullsine Turke ne Shqiperi ........ e njejte me thirrjen qe ekuivalenti i Janusllatosit beri ne Qipro ,,,,,,,sepse ne librat qe femijet Shqiptare studjone ne shkollat Greke ne Shqiper Shqiptaret myslymane paraqiten si Turq ndersa Orthodokset si Greke.Aventurieri Janusllatos mendon ta realizoje kete plan ne nje kohe jo shume te gjate ne qofte se do t'ju referohemi fjaleve te superantiShqiptarit apo terrorristit si e quajne Amerikanet "Teodoros Pangallos" i cili u shpreh para pak kohesh qe : pas pak vjeteve do te shikojme sa Shqiptare jetojne ne Shqiperi .Fjala "pas pak kohesh "nenkupton procesin e asimilimit qe po perjeton Shqiperia. ::::::::: Perfundimisht ::::::::::::::: Duhet te sabotojme planin antiShqiptar te Janusllatosit. Te kerkojme urgjentisht ?lirimin e kishe Shqiptare prej zgjedhes Greke.Nuk eshte e lehte por jo e parealizueshme........duhet te kemi parasysh krimet qe kryeu kisha Greke ndaj prifterinjve te shquar Shqiptare ne Shqiperi ne fillim te shekulli.Apo perkrahesit e Janusllatosit qe kerkojne sot te diskretitojne figuren fetare te Fan Nolit vetem e vetem per te legjitimituar pushtimin e kishes Shqiptare. Jemi qytetare te Shqiperise ,brenda apo jashte atdheut kemi detyrim atdhetar qe te sabotojme Helenizimin dhe planet e erreta te Megalidhese Greke. God Bless Albania! !! Fund !! Me nderime A.Kanina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com Wed Jun 21 12:28:53 2000 From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:28:53 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Pornografia eshte pjese e degjeneruese jetes dhe e drejte e ariut ! Message-ID: <20000621162853.74721.qmail@hotmail.com> >Pornografia eshte pjese e jetes dhe e drejte e njeriut Kush nuk do familjen dhe femijet e tij, le t'i bjere kesaj muzike. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From Ovid_Online at ovid.com Wed Jun 21 11:35:40 2000 From: Ovid_Online at ovid.com (Ovid_Online at ovid.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic diseases? Message-ID: <200006211535.JAA18302@ovid.com> Ovid Technologies, Inc. Email Service ------------------------------ Full Text of: Bailey: Behav Genet, Volume 29(2).March 1999.79-86 Behavior Genetics © Plenum Publishing Corporation 1999. All Rights Reserved. ---------------------------------------------- Volume 29(2) March 1999 pp 79-86 ---------------------------------------------- A Family History Study of Male Sexual Orientation Using Three Independent Samples [Article] Bailey, Michael J.1,6; Pillard, Richard C.2; Dawood, Khytam1; Miller, Michael B.3; Farrer, Lindsay A.4; Trivedi, Shruti1; Murphy, Robert L.5 1 Department of Psychology, Northwestern University, 2029 Sheridan Road, Evanston, Illinois 60208-2710. 2 Department of Psychiatry, Boston University School of Medicine, Massachusetts. 3 Department of Psychology, University of Missouri, Columbia, Missouri. 4 Department of Neurology, Boston University School of Medicine, Massachusetts. 5 Department of Medicine, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago Illinois. 6 To whom correspondence should be addressed. Fax: (847) 491-7859. e-mail: jm-bailey at nwu.edu Received 8 Sept. 1998-final 25 Dec. 1998 ---------------------------------------------- Outline Abstract INTRODUCTION SUBJECTS AND METHODS Ascertainment Family Histories RESULTS Siblings Maternal Versus Paternal Transmission DISCUSSION Recurrence Rates for Siblings X-Linked Transmission Limitations CONCLUSIONS ACKNOWLEDG REFERENCES Graphics Table I. Recurrence ... Table II. Rates of H... ---------------------------------------------- Abstract Available evidence suggests that male homosexuality is both familial and somewhat heritable and that some cases may be caused by an X-linked gene. However, most studies have recruited subjects in a relatively unsystematic manner, typically via advertisements, and hence suffer from the potential methodological flaw of ascertainment bias due to volunteer self-selection. In the present study we assessed the familiality of male homosexuality using two carefully ascertained samples and attempted to replicate findings consistent with X-linkage in three samples. The percentage of siblings of the probands rated as either homosexual or bisexual, with a high degree of certainty, ranged from 7 to 10% for brothers and 3 to 4% for sisters. These estimates are higher than recent comparable population-based estimates of homosexuality, supporting the importance of familial factors for male homosexuality. Estimates of [gamma]S for male homosexuality ranged from 3.0 to 4.0. None of the samples showed significantly greater proportion of maternal than paternal homosexual uncles or homosexual male maternal first cousins. Although our results differed significantly with those of some prior studies, they do not exclude the possibility of moderate X-linkage for male sexual orientation. ---------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTION During the past decade interest has surged in possible familial-genetic determinants of male sexual orientation (Bailey and Pillard, 1995; Hamer and Copeland, 1994). Relevant studies have all found evidence that male homosexuality is familial (Bailey and Bell, 1993; Bailey and Pillard, 1991; Bailey et al. 1991; Hamer et al., 1993; Pillard and Weinrich, 1986) Furthermore, with one exception (King and McDonald, 1992) male twin studies have found evidence for a genetic contribution (Bailey et al., 1999; Bailey and Pillard, 1991; Buhrich et al., 1991; Eckert et al., 1986; Whitam et al., 1993). Regarding the nature of genetic influences, two studies have found evidence from pedigrees that male sexual orientation is influenced by an X-linked gene (Hamer et al., 1993; Rice et al., 1995). In both cases, there were more homosexual uncles and cousins on the maternal than on the paternal side. Both studies ascertained families because they had at least two gay brothers. Finally, two studies (Hamer et al., 1993; Hu et al., 1995) found significant linkage to genetic markers on chromosomal region Xq28. Results of another study (Rice et al., 1995) were negative with respect to Xq28 linkage and differed significantly from results yielding positive findings (Bailey, 1995). Although positive evidence for familial-genetic influences on male sexual orientation has been generally consistent, previously published data sets have at least two possibly related limitations. One significant limitation concerns ascertainment. In all available studies subjects were recruited using relatively unsystematic procedures, especially via advertisements in homophile publications. In contrast, studies of psychopathology have used systematic proband ascertainment schemes such as consecutive admissions to medical services. Although this recruitment strategy may result in samples that are unrepresentative in certain respects (e.g., their psychopathology may be more severe), it avoids other, potentially more problematic biases. For example, subjects recruited via advertisements may weigh their siblings status before deciding whether to participate in the study, thus potentially inflating familial resemblance (Kendler and Eaves, 1989). This seems particularly likely for characteristics that lead to social ostracism, such as homosexuality. In contrast, it seems less likely that subjects recruited as consecutive admissions would weigh siblings statuses in their decision to participate. Furthermore, consecutive admissions methodology allows more precise estimation of the proportion of eligible probands who participate. If this proportion is high, then subject self-selection cannot importantly affect results. In contrast, the sampling schemes used in studies to date cannot eliminate the possiblity of substantial biases. The second problem with the current evidence is that the magnitude of recurrence rates has varied markedly across studies. A recent review (Bailey and Pillard, 1995) found that published estimates of the rate of homosexuality in brothers of homosexual male probands ranged from 9 to 22%, and the extreme rates differed significantly. These differences cannot be attributed to different assessment criteria. The study yielding the highest rate (Pillard and Weinrich, 1986) used criteria similar to, if not more stringent than, those yielding the lowest rates (Bailey and Bell, 1993; Bailey and Pillard, 1991). Twin concordances have varied even more markedly, with concordances for male MZ pairs ranging from 20% (Bailey et al., 1999) to more than 60% (Whitam et al., 1993). It is noteworthy that the lower rate came from the study with the most systematically ascertained sample (obtained using the Australian Twin Registry). Uncertainty about recurrence rates has led to controversy regarding the interpretation of linkage results for male sexual orientation (Risch et al., 1993). Risch (1990) introduced a multiplicative genetic model that is useful in computing statistical power for affected-relative-pair linkage analysis and for interpreting results of linkage studies. In the multiplicative model, the risk of having a particular phenotype is determined by the product of the effects of one or more loci. These individual and cumulative effects can be expressed as relative risk values. For example, if the risk of homosexuality in the brother of a homosexual man were three times the risk of homosexuality to a man selected at random from the general population, the relative risk to a sibling ([lambda]s) would be 3.0. If aggregation of male homosexuality in sibships were due entirely to sharing of genes by siblings, and Rischs (1990) multiplicative model applied, we could conclude that the product of several individual locus effects was equal to 3.0. In such a situation there might be two loci, one with [lambda]1S = 2 and one with [lambda]2S = 1.5, such that their product was 3.0. Or there might be a single locus with [lambda]s = 3. The power to detect an individual locus by affected sibling pair linkage analysis depends only on the sample size and on the individual [lambda] value of that specific locus because the [lambda] value determines the probability of identity by descent at that locus. The major problems for power computations in studies of complex genetic phenotypes, like male homosexuality, are the lack of knowledge regarding (1) a good estimate of [lambda]s, (2) how many genes combine to create risk, and (3) the appropriateness of the multiplicative model. Thus we are unable to estimate [lambda]:XS for an X-linked locus, but we know that its individual effect must be less than the overall relative risk, at least under the multiplicative model. The identity-by-descent data of Hamer et al.'s (1993) linkage study yielded an estimated [lambda]:s of 2.9. However, Risch et al. (1993) questioned whether ls for male homosexuality is plausibly as high as 2.9 and suggested that plausible estimates of [lambda]:S ranged as low as 0.9. Their point is perhaps overstated because it implies that sharing genes with a homosexual brother might reduce a man's chances of being homosexual himself. We believe that Risch et al.'s statistical arguments are flawed, or at least oversimplified, but we see legitimacy in their implication that the probability of linkage given Hamer et al.'s linkage finding is not high because the prior probability of such a high lod score was low. That is, the Hamer et al. result could easily have been a false-positive finding of linkage. However, the legitimacy of this argument depends entirely on the size of the effect that Hamer et al. could reasonably expect to exist. If the effect might be large, the linkage result is more likely to be genuine. Thus precise knowledge of risk to siblings is very important because of what it tells us about statistical power and because of what it tells us about the probability that reported linkages are genuine. Improved precision in the estimation of [lambda]s is important in planning future research as well as interpreting the results of prior studies. The present study examined familial patterns of male homosexuality in three independent samples ascertained in quite different ways. We focused on two issues. First, we assessed the recurrence rates in brothers and sisters of male probands. Second, by comparing rates of homosexuality in male relatives on the maternal versus the paternal side, we attempted to replicate pedigree findings consistent with X-linkage. SUBJECTS AND METHODS Ascertainment Probands of the first sample were recruited from consecutive admissions to Northwestern Memorial Hospital HIV Center. For the duration of the study, we attempted to approach every male patient and ask whether he would consent to complete an anonymous questionnaire about the degree to which certain characteristics run in families." Of patients approached, 85% cooperated. Asked to rate their sexual orientation categorically, 312 of the probands rated themselves as "homosexual," 38 as "bisexual," and 34 as "heterosexual." Because the focus of this study is on the familiality of homosexuality and bisexuality, and 34 subjects is inadequate to comprise a control group, the results reported herein exclude the heterosexual subjects. The mean age of the nonheterosexual probands was 37.6 8.1 years (range: 20-67 years), and their mean educational level was nearly equivalent to a college degree. Sexual orientation was also assessed for both sexual fantasy and behavior during the past year, using 7-point Kinsey scales (Kinsey et al., 1948), on which "0" signifies complete heterosexuality and "6" complete homosexuality. As would be expected, the homosexual probands exceeded the bisexuals in their degree of homosexual fantasy (5.8 ± 0.4 vs. 3.7 ± 1.6, respectively; t = l7.6, df = 343, p < .001). Homosexual probands also exceeded bisexuals in their degree of homosexual behavior during the last year (6.0 ± 0.1 vs. 4.7 ± 2.0, respectively; t = 8.6, df = 279, p < .001). Probands from the second sample were recruited at the postparade rally of the 1997 Chicago Gay Pride parade. Interviewers approached men and asked if they would participate in a study on the origins of sexual orientation. Interviewers then inquired if respondents were gay, and only those who were gay were interviewed. The cooperation rate was 95%. Ages ranged from 16 to 69, with a mean of 34.4 ± 9.0. Probands of a third sample were comprised of sibling pairs sample recruited via advertisements in homophile publications. The advertisements asked for gay men with gay brothers and specified that qualifying individuals should call our laboratory. Probands included 65 gay men, each having at least one gay brother, who called our laboratory. Probands ages ranged from 17 to 64, with a mean of 35.1 ± 9.1. Family Histories Probands from all three samples provided data about relatives' sexual orientations, though the precise methods differed. In the HIV sample, probands anonymously completed written questionnaires which assessed the sexual orientations of (biologically- related) siblings and uncles. (Prior experience had suggested that questionnaire assessment of cousins' orientations would be time-consuming and provide questionable data.) Specific instructions were provided for completing the questionnaire, and staff were available to answer questions. Probands rated both siblings' orientations and their certainty regarding the siblings' orientations. For uncles, probands merely counted the number in each category (e.g., gay uncles on the mother's side). For these relatives, probands were instructed to count as homosexual or bisexual only those relatives about whose nonheterosexuality they were either "completely certain," meaning that their relatives had told them directly, or "virtually certain," indicating that probands had a high degree of certainty that was based on observation alone. Furthermore, they were instructed to assume that relatives are heterosexual unless they had good, solid evidence of homosexual feelings and or behavior." Probands from the Gay Pride rally were interviewed at the rally, and they provided relevant data regarding parents, siblings, uncles, aunts, and first cousins. In this sample, we tabulated only homosexual (as opposed to bisexual) relatives, in order to be consistent with Hamer et al. (1993; Hu et al., 1995), who reported that X-linkage could be established only for homosexual individuals, and not for bisexual ones. Because we spoke directly with these probands, we were able to ask for specific information regarding how they knew relatives were homosexual. Interviewers counted as homosexual only those relatives about whose orientations probands had unambiguous information. Probands from the gay siblings sample were interviewed via telephone, and similar criteria were used for determining whether relatives were nonheterosexual. This sample was obviously inappropriate for assessing recurrence rates in brothers but was included to replicate the finding of Hamer et al. (1993) that pedigrees of families with multiple gay brothers were especially consistent with X-linked transmission. RESULTS Siblings Table I provides results of recurrence rates in siblings of the HIV (Sample 1) and Gay Pride (Sample 2) probands. Probands from the HIV center provided information regarding 453 brothers and 394 sisters at least 18 years old. (Probands claimed only seven brothers and nine sisters below that age.) Rates of homosexuality and bisexuality in these siblings are given in Table I, for both high and low degrees of proband certainty. Of the entire sample of brothers of the male HIV probands, 7.3% (33/453) were rated nonheterosexual with high certainty. The analogous figure for sisters was 3.8% (15/394). The difference between the two figures was significant ([chi]2 = 4.7, df = 1, p <.05), most likely reflecting the lower population base rate for women. Of the siblings of the Gay Pride probands, 9.7% (25/259) of brothers and 2.8% (6/214) of sisters were reported with certainty to be homosexual. These rates also differed significantly ([chi]2 = 9.0, df = 1, p < .01). ---------------------------------------------- Table I. Recurrence Rates in Siblings ---------------------------------------------- We investigated two other previously reported associations concerning the siblings of homosexual men. Specifically, gay men appear to be later born among their sibships, and at least the most feminine gay men tend to have more brothers than sisters (Blanchard, 1997). In order to investigate birth order in our samples, we computed Slater's index, or the ratio of the number of older siblings to the total number of siblings (which can only be computed for probands with at least one sibling). For the HIV sample Slater's index, 0.537, was in the expected direction but did not differ significantly from 0.5 [t(285) = 1.5, p = .12]. For the Gay Pride sample, Slater's index, 0.569, was significantly greater than 0.5 [t(154) = 2.1, p < .05]. The sibling sex ratio, computed as the ratio of number of brothers to total number of siblings, exceeded the proportion of male live births in the general population (0.5146) for both the HIV sample (0.535) and the Gay Pride sample (0.526), but the excess of brothers was not significant for either [ t(285) = 1.0, p = .33; t(154) = 0.4, p = .69]. Maternal Versus Paternal Transmission If male homosexuality is influenced by an X-linked gene, then father-son transmission should be rare, and maternal uncles, and male cousins through maternal aunts, should both have elevated rates of homosexuality compared with paternal uncles and other cousins, respectively. Table II contains rates of homosexuality among maternal and paternal relatives for all three samples. The questionnaire given to the HIV sample did not ask separately about maternal cousins through aunts versus uncles, and thus, the relevant comparison for that sample (male cousins on the maternal versus paternal side) is less precise. ---------------------------------------------- Table II. Rates of Homosexuality in Male Maternal and Paternal Relatives ---------------------------------------------- For the HIV sample, there was a slight, nonsignificant excess of gay maternal uncles (4.4%), compared with gay paternal uncles (3.1%; [chi]2 = 1.1, df = 1, p = .30). The other relevant comparison for that sample was opposite that predicted by an X-linkage hypothesis, with a slightly higher rate of homosexuality among male cousins on the paternal (5.5%) versus the maternal (4.4%) side. For the Gay Pride sample, the rate of father-to-son transmission, 0.6%, was extremely low, consistent with either an X-linkage hypothesis or with the greatly reduced fecundity of gay men, which is approximately 20% that of heterosexual men's (Bell and Weinberg, 1978). The rates of homosexuality in maternal (2.5%) and paternal (2.1%) uncles were quite similar and did not differ significantly ([chi]2 = 0.1, df = 1, p = .71). The rate of homosexuality among male cousins through maternal aunts (4.6%) was also quite similar to the rate of homosexuality among other male cousins, (4.4%; [chi]2 = 0.1, df = 1, p = .81). For the sibling pairs sample, the rate of homosexuality among fathers, 6.2%, was rather high compared with the aforementioned population prevalence of 2.4% (Laumann et al., 1994) and also significantly exceeded the father-son transmission rate in the Gay Pride sample (Fisher exact probability = .023). This result conflicts with that of Hamer et al. (1993), who found no gay fathers in a "randomly" selected group of gay male probands. It is possible either that gay men with gay brothers may be more likely to have gay fathers or that gay men with gay fathers were especially likely to volunteer for our sibling pairs study. Supporting the latter interpretation, none of the 23 gay men with gay brothers from the Gay Pride sample had a gay father. The rate of homosexuality among maternal uncles of the sibling pairs sample, 4.5%, was less than that rate among paternal uncles, 6.8%. Similarly, the rate of homosexuality in male cousins through maternal aunts, 4.1%, was less than that in other male cousins, 7.2%. Both of these differences were opposite in direction to those predicted by an X-linkage hypothesis, though neither was statistically significant. We also investigated another phenonemon that has been hypothesized to relate to X-linkage. Turner (1995) found that a sample of gay men had more maternal aunts than maternal uncles. He speculated that this was due to a semilethal X-linked gene that also causes male homosexuality. This interpretation is almost certainly incorrect, because it suggests that gay men should have a relative dearth of brothers, but if anything, gay men have more brothers than sisters (Blanchard, 1997). Nevertheless, Turner demonstrated a large effect, which was replicated in our HIV sample. Probands claimed 564 maternal aunts, 454 maternal uncles, 481 paternal aunts, and 511 paternal uncles. The number of maternal aunts was significantly greater than the number of maternal uncles [t(317) = 3.0, p < .01]. Furthermore, the difference between the rate of aunts and that of uncles on the maternal side exceeded the respective difference on the paternal side [t(317) = 3.0, p < .01]. For the Gay Pride sample, however, there was no significant excess of maternal aunts (321) over maternal uncles (320). DISCUSSION Recurrence Rates for Siblings The present study is generally consistent with past studies in suggesting elevated rates of homosexuality among siblings of homosexual men. The rates for brothers reported for our two relevant samples, 7.3 and 9.7%, are similar to the median figure of 9% found in other family studies (Bailey and Pillard, 1995). Insufficient control data were collected from heterosexual probands in the present study to provide a direct test of the difference in the two rates. However, three recent large surveys of sexual behavior from Great Britain (Wellings et al., 1994), France (Spira et al., 1993), and the United States (Laumann et al., 1994) have provided estimates of adult homosexual behavior. These estimates vary sensibly with the stringency of the respective definitions. For men, the least stringent definition examined in the studies, any homosexual experience ever, yielded an estimate of 4.1% in the French survey (Spira et al., 1993) 6.1% in the British survey (Wellings et al., 1994), and 7.1% in the American survey (Laumann et al., 1994). A much more stringent criterion, same-sex activity during the year preceding the survey, yielded rates of 1.1, 1.1, and 2.7% for the three samples, respectively. The criterion closest to that explored herein, self-identification as "gay" or "bisexual," was employed only in the American study (Laumann et al., 1994), and applied to 2.4% of men. The 95% confidence interval for the rate of non-heterosexuality among brothers in the HIV study ranged from 5 to 10%; for the rate of homosexuality among brothers in the Gay Pride sample it ranged from 6 to 14%. In a direct comparison of nonheterosexuality among brothers in our samples with the rate of male nonheterosexuality in the American survey (Laumann et al., 1994), both the HIV sample ([chi]2 = 23.5, df = 1, p <.001) and the Gay Pride sample ([chi]2 = 33.6, df = 1, p < .001) yielded significantly elevated rates. The two rates were not significantly different from each other ([chi]2 = 1.2, df = 1, p > .25). Assuming a rate of 2.4% for the population prevalence of male nonheterosexuality, the respective estimates of [lambda]s are 3.0 and 4.0. We believe that these are the best current estimates of [lambda]s, and they should be considered in power calculations in future linkage studies. The present estimates for brothers are lower than that for dizygotic (DZ) twins obtained in some recent genetics studies of homosexuality (Bailey and Pillard, 1991; King and McDonald, 1992; Whitam et al., 1993) which range from 12% (King and McDonald, 1992) to 30.4% (Whitam et al., 1993). There are at least two possible explanations. First, twins share some aspects of environment (e.g., prenatal influences and contemporaneous rearing) that siblings do not, and these are plausibly related to sexual orientation. Second, the recent twin studies have recruited probands using advertisements that clearly revealed the nature of the sudies, which probably magnified concordance-dependent ascertainment bias (Kendler and Eaves, 1989). Consistent with this interpretation, recurrence rates for both fathers and sisters appeared to be inflated in the sibling pairs sample, which was also recruited via advertisements. To determine if the rate for DZ twins is greater than that for nontwin brothers, it will be necessary to recruit twins more systematically, as in the present study. The three large prevalence studies also yielded rates of female homosexuality which can be compared with the rate of nonheterosexual sisters of the HIV probands. Rates of lifetime homosexual experience in the British (Wellings et al., 1994), French (Spira et al., 1992), and American (Laumann et al., 1994) samples were 3.4, 2.6, and 3.8%, respectively. The respective figures for homosexual experience during the previous year were 0.4, 0.3, and 1.3%, respectively. The most comparable definition employed in the prevalence studies, self-identity as "homosexual" or "bisexual," yielded a rate of 1.4% (Laumann et al., 1994). The 95% confidence interval for the rate of nonheterosexual sisters in the HIV sample ranged from 2 to 6%; for homosexual sisters of the Gay Pride probands it ranged from 1 to 6%. In a direct comparison with the American sample (Laumann et al., 1994), sisters of the HIV probands had a significant excess of nonheterosexuality ([chi]2 = 12.9, df = 1, p < .001), but sisters of the Gay Pride probands did not ([chi]2 = 2.9, df = 1, p = .08). The rate of sisters counted as nonheterosexual did not differ between our two samples, however ([chi]2 = 0.4, df = 1, p > .50). Familial clustering of male and female homosexuality has also been found in some previous studies (Bailey and Bell, 1993; Pattatucci and Hamer, 1995), but not in others (Bailey and Benishay, 1993; Bailey et al., 1993). The most influential biologic theory of sexual orientation is that male homosexuality results from incomplete masculinization of relevant brain structures during prenatal development; female homosexuality has an analogous, opposite, explanation (Ellis and Ames, 1987; Friedman and Downey, 1993 LeVay, 1996). It is, thus, unclear how the same familial factors would affect both male and female homosexuality. X-Linked Transmission This study found no evidence that male sexual orientation is influenced by an X-linked gene. This contrasts with the work of Hamer and colleagues, who found evidence for X-linkage both in pedigree (Hamer et al., 1993) and linkage (Hamer et al., 1993; Hu et al., 1995) studies. Because this study reported only pedigree data, we focus on the differences between it and the original study by Hamer et al. (1993), which also included pedigree data. Both of our relevant samples (N = 350 and N = 167) were substantially larger than that of Hamer et al. (N = 76), and our sibling pairs sample was also somewhat larger than theirs (65 versus 38 families, respectively). Thus, each of our samples had greater power to detect familial patterns consistent with X-linkage than the corresponding sample in Hamer et al.'s report. We were, however, unable to do so. Although our results differed from the pedigree data in Hamer et al.'s initial report, they are not strong evidence against X-linkage. For example, consider the HIV sample, which yielded a rate of 7.3%. Even if all familial aggregation were attributable to an X-linked gene, this would imply a rate of homosexuality of approximately 3.7% among maternal uncles. But that sample obtained a rate of 4.4%, which is even higher than the unrealistic model would predict. The power to detect differences in maternal versus paternal transmission of the magnitude that realistic models would predict is surely low. One conceivably relevant difference between our studies concerns ascertainment. Our HIV sample was ascertained entirely through an HIV clinic, and our Gay Pride sample was ascertained exclusively at a Gay Pride rally. Hamer et al. ascertained a portion of their random sample through an HIV clinic, but the rest was recruited via two gay mental health clinics. It is possible that gay men recruited from the latter sites are more likely to carry an X-linked gene for homosexuality compared with those from HIV clinics. Sampling bias would not, however, explain the different results of the two studies' sibling pairs samples, which were recruited similarly. Assuming that our samples are representative of gay men in the general population, our data suggest that X-linked genes account for relatively few cases of male homosexuality. Limitations Although we conducted the most systematically ascertained family study of male homosexuality to date, our results have several limitations. First, no control group was studied within this investigation. However, prevalence estimates of male homosexuality obtained from several recent large epidemiological surveys (Laumann et al., 1994; Spira et al., 1992; Wellings et al., 1994) have yielded figures that are both generally consistent with each other and lower than those obtained for brothers in the present study, and one study (Laumann et al., 1994) used very similar criteria to those used herein. Furthermore, it seems likely that control estimates derived from careful epidemiological samples are superior to estimates that would be obtained from a family history study of heterosexual probands, because such probands' knowledge of homosexuality among their relatives is likely to be limited. The second limitation concerns our use of the family history method, in which proband reports were used to assess sibling sexual orientation. Because relatives in this study were not interviewed, it is crucial to establish the validity of the family history method for studies of sexual orientation. Although homosexual and bisexual people often hide their sexual orientations from relatives, there is little incentive for nonheterosexual relatives to conceal their sexual orientations from each other. Available evidence supports this contention. Studies of both men (Bailey and Pillard, 1991; Pillard and Weinrich, 1986) and women (Bailey and Benishay, 1993; Bailey et al., 1993; Pillard, 1990) have shown that homosexual probands' reports of their siblings' sexual orientations correspond closely to siblings' self-reports, with at least 95% agreement, and [kappa]'s exceeding .80. Errors are not especially likely to be false positives compared with false negatives. Reports of more distant relatives' sexual orientations are undoubtedly less accurate, though such reports have uniformly been employed in the prior pedigree studies of X-linkage (Hamer et al., 1993; Rice et al., 1995) and have yielded significant results. Although prior studies have found such assessments to be highly accurate [as high as 97% (Bailey and Bell, 1993; Bailey and Pillard, 1991)], those studies used interviews, which may provide more accurate information than questionnaires such as that used in the HIV sample. On the other hand, we did interview our Gay Pride probands, and the similarity between the results for that sample and our HIV sample, as well as those of some other studies that used an interview strategy (Bailey and Bell, 1993; Bailey and Pillard, 1991) is reassuring. The third limitation, to which we have already alluded, concerns the representativeness of our samples. Probands with HIV or who attend Gay Pride rallies may not be representative of all homosexual men. For example, HIV-infected homosexual men tend to have had more homosexual partners than uninfected homosexual men (Jaffe et al., 1983). Men attending Gay Pride rallies are probably more self-accepting of and open about their homosexuality than are other gay men. However, no theory of which we are aware predicts different patterns of familiality for HIV-positive and HIV-negative homosexual men or that homosexuality associated with openness and self-acceptance is transmitted differently than other homosexuality. These are ultimately empirical matters, however, and they await further study. CONCLUSIONS We studied two samples of gay men ascertained randomly with respect to family history, as well as a sample of gay male sibling pairs. Consistent with prior studies, male homosexuality appeared familial. Female homosexuality was also more common among the sisters of gay male probands compared with the population prevalence for female homosexuality. None of the samples yielded results consistent with X-linkage, but this is not inconsistent with the most recent linkage findings. Maternal loadings in pedigrees due to an allele within Xq28 will require large samples to be detectable. ACKNOWLEDG We thank Deanna Hladek, Kristin Nielsen, and Deepti Sahrawat for their assistance in this research. REFERENCES Bailey, J. M. (1995). Sexual orientation revolution [news]. Nature Genet. 11 353-354. [Medline Link] Bailey, J. M., and Bell, A. P. (1993). Familiality of female and male homosexuality. Behav. Genet. 23:313-322. [Medline Link] Bailey, J. M., and Benishay, D. S. (1993). Familial aggregation of female sexual orientation. Am. J. Psychiatry 150:272-277. [Medline Link] Bailey, J. M., and Pillard, R. C. (1991). A genetic study of male sexual orientation. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 48:1089-1096. [Medline Link] Bailey, J. M., and Pillard, R. C. (1995). Genetics of human sexual orientation. Annu. Rev. Sex Res. 6:126-150. Bailey, J. M., Willerman, L., and Parks, C. (1991). A test of the maternal stress theory of human male homosexuality. Arch. Sex. Behav. 20:277-293. [Medline Link] Bailey, J. M., Pillard, R. C., Neale, M. C., and Agyei, Y. (1993). Heritable factors influence sexual orientation in women. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 50:217-223. [Fulltext Link] [Medline Link] Bailey, J. M., Dunne, M. P., and Martin, N. G. (1999). The distribution, correlates, and determinants of sexual orientation in an Australian twin sample (submitted for publication). Bell, A., and Weinberg, M. (1978). Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women, Simon and Schuster, New York. Blanchard, R. (1997). Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual versus heterosexual males and females. Annu. Rev. Sex Res. 8:27-67. [Medline Link] Buhrich, N., Bailey, J. M., and Martin, N. G. (1991). Sexual orientation, sexual identity, and sex-dimorphic behaviors in male twins. Behav. Genet. 21:75-96. [Medline Link] Eckert, E. D., Bouchard, T. J., Bohlen, J., and Heston, L. L. (1986). Homosexuality in monozygotic twins reared apart. Br. J. Psychiatry 148:421-425. [Medline Link] Ellis, L., and Ames, M. A. (1987). Neurohormonal functioning and sexual orientation: A theory of homosexuality-heterosexuality. Psychol. Bull. 10:233-258. Friedman, R. C., and Downey, J. (1993). Neurobiology and sexual orientation: Current relationships. J. Neuropsychiatry Clin. Neurosci. 5:131-153. [Medline Link] Hamer, D., and Copeland, P. (1994). The Science of Desire: The Search for the Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior, Simon & Schuster, New York. Hamer, D. H., Hu, S., Magnuson, V. L., Hu, N., et al. (1993). A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation. Science 261:321-327. [Fulltext Link] [Medline Link] Hu, S., Pattatucci, A. M. L., Patterson, C., Li, L., Fulker, D. W., Cherny, S. S., Kruglyak, L., and Hamer, D. H. (1995). Linkage between sexual orientation and chromosome Xq28 in males but not in females. Nature Genet. 11:248-256. [Medline Link] Jaffe, H. W., Choi, K., Thomas, P. A., Haverkos, H. W., Auerbach, D. M., Guinan, M. E., Rogers, M. F., Spira, T. J., Darrow, W. W., Kramer, M. A., et al. (1983). National case-control study of Kaposi's sarcoma and Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia in homosexual men. Part 1. Epidemiological results. Ann. Intern. Med. 99:145-151. Kendler, K. S., and Eaves, L. J. (1989). The estimation of probandwise concordance in twins: The effect of unequal ascertainment. Acta Genet. Med. Gemellol. Twin Res. 38:253-270. King, M., and McDonald, E. (1992). Homosexuals who are twins. A study of 46 probands. Br. J. Psychiatry 160:407-409. [Medline Link] Kinsey, A. C., Pomeroy, W. B., and Martin, C. E. (1948). Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, W. B. Saunders, Philadelphia and London. Laumann, E. O., Gagnon, J. H., Michael, R. T., and Michaels, S. (1994). The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States, University of Chicago Press, Chicago, pp. 283-320. LeVay, S. (1996). Queer Science: The Use and Abuse of Research into Homosexuality, MIT Press, Cambridge, MA. Pattatucci, A. M. L., and Hamer, D. H. (1995). Development and familiality of sexual orientation in females. Behav. Genet. 25:407-420. [Medline Link] Pillard, R. C. (1990). The Kinsey scale: Is it familial? In McWhirter, S. A. S. J. M. R. D. P. (ed.), Homosexuality/Heterosexuality: Concepts of Sexual Orientation. The Kinsey Institute Series, Vol. 2, Oxford University Press, New York, pp. xxvii, 423. Pillard, R. C., and Weinrich, J. D. (1986). Evidence of familial nature of male homosexuality. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 43:808-812. [Medline Link] Rice, G., Anderson, C., and Ebers, G. (1995). Male homosexuality: Absence of linkage to microsatellite markers at Xq28. Paper presented at the Twenty-First Annual Meeting of the International Academy of Sex Research, Provincetown, MA, Sept. 20-24. Risch, N. (1990). Linkage strategies for genetically complex traits. I. Multilocus models. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 46:222-228. Risch, N., Squires-Wheeler, E., and Keats, B. J. B. (1993). Male sexual orientation and genetic evidence. Science 262:2063-2065. [Fulltext Link] [Medline Link] Spira, A., et al. (1993). Les Comportements Sexuels en France, La documentation Francaise, Paris. Spira, A., Bajos, N., Bejin, A., Beltzer, N., et al. (1992). AIDS and sexual behaviour in France. Nature 360:407-409. [Medline Link] Turner, W. J. (1995). Homosexuality, type 1: an Xq28 phenomenon. Arch. Sex. Behav. 24:109-134. [Medline Link] Wellings, K., Field, J., Johnson, A., and Wadsworth, J. (1994). Sexual Behavior in Britain: The National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles, Penguin, New York. Whitam, F. L., Diamond, M., and Martin, J. (1993). Homosexual orientation in twins: a report on 61 pairs and three triplet sets. Arch. Sex. Behav. 22:187-206. [Medline Link] KEY WORDS:: Family history;; male sexual orientation;; X-linked gene;; male homosexuality ---------------------------------------------- From albana at zool.unizh.ch Wed Jun 21 14:33:28 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:33:28 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic diseases? In-Reply-To: <200006211704.e5LH4YQ04160@alb-net.com> Message-ID: >Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are >genetic diseases? Une nuk i kam hasur nocionet PKU dhe Tourette, a e di ndonjeri se kujt i referohen? Mua me lene pershtypjen qe i referohen homoseksualitetit (dhe kjo me teper duke iu referuar artikullit qe e pason). Ne rast se eshte keshtu, do thoja qe e vetmja gje qe nuk eshte e pranueshme eshte vetem titulli i ketij mesazhi. Nuk ka asnje shkencetar serioz qe do te quante "semundje gjenetike" homoseksualitetin sepse nuk eshte provuar qe eshte rrjedhim i nje defekti gjenik. Dhe kjo eshte e rendesishme. Se dyti, homoseksualiteti nuk eshte semundje. Semundja eshte e lidhur me keqfunksionim, ne njerin aspekt apo tjetrin, te organizmit. Ka semundje qe jane rrjedhoje e mutacioneve gjenike, sic eshte rasti i kancerit. Ne rastin e kancerit dy gjene p53 dhe p21 jane gati esenciale. p21 eshte pergjegjes per ndarjen qelizore, kurse p53 kontrollon funksionin e p21. Si behet kjo, po marr rastin kur shkojme ne plazh dhe digjemi. p53 eshte ai qe sensitivizohet dhe qe i jep sinjalin p21 te ngadalesoje ritmin e punes, qe do te thote ulje e ritmit te ndarjes qelizore. Ulja e ritmit te ndarjes qelizore i jep mundesi organizmit qe t'i ekspozoje sa me pak qeliza diellit dhe njekohesisht i jep mundesi mekanizmit reparues te ADN-se te riparoje demtimet, dhe kur rreziku largohet, dielli, p53 i thote p21, tani mund te vazhdosh normalisht. Kur ndodh nje mutacion ne p53, p21 nuk kontrollohet me dhe vazhdon ne menyre te vazhdueshme te inicioje ndarje qelizore, qe con ne lindjen e tumoreve, metastazave. Ne kete rast organizmi nuk funksionon si duhet, gje qe e privon individin nga nje jete normale dhe nga nje jete e shendetshme, e fut ate ne seanca trajtimi rrezesh dhe ne kura mjekesore teper te renda dhe me efekte dytesore, dhe tek e fundit, e con ne vdekje. Ndryshe eshte rasti i gripit, apo i te ftohurit, apo HIV per shembull. Ne kete rast individi eshte i semure, kurohet me medikamente, mund edhe te vdese, por gjenet i ka fare ok. Te qenurit heteroseksual apo homoseksual nuk eshte semundje sepse as nuk i shkakton dhimbje individit dhe as nuk con ne keqfunksionime te organizmit. Ashtu si te gjithe, homoseksualet e shijojne jeten ne cdo aspekt dhe ne te njejtin kualitet si ata qe jane ndryshe nga ta. Bile, gjeja qe duhet ndoshta theksuar me shume ketu eshte qe homoseksualet gezojne virilitet te plote, pra, ata kane nje potencial te njejte si dhe heteroseksualet te prodhojne pasardhes, ne rast se e deshirojne. Kjo do te thote qe natyra vete i konsideron ata plotesisht nje alternative te pranueshme dhe si lojtare te barabarte ne lojen e riprodhimit. Sidoqofte, kushdo qe je, faleminderit per artikullin. I dha nje shembull praktik essese time. Ndoshta duhet theksuar qe ne ndyrshim nga koleget e tyre qe punojne ne sisteme te tjera kafshesh gjenetistet humane kane disavantazhin te punojne me statistike, nje shkence kjo e pasakte. Ata qe punojne ne kete fushe e dine se sa me rrezik eshte t'i futesh klonimit te nje gjeni human (apo te nxjerresh konkluzione) duke u bazuar ne te dhenat statistike, eshte nje lloj llotarie. Gjeneticienet dhe gjeneticienet molekulare e dine gjithashtu qe e vetmja menyre per t'u siguruar per funskionin e gjeneve eshte" t'i kesh ata ne dore", gje qe ata qe punojne ne fushen e gjenetikes humane nuk e bejne dot , heperhe, per kompleksitetin dhe veshtiresine, se pari te sekuencimit te gjenomit njerezor, por edhe te kompleksitetit te networkeve ku gjenet punojne. Po keshtu, eshte shume e veshtire te perdoresh njeriun si nje model, ku mund t'i mutosh keto gjene, ndoshta te gjithe networkun, ti riparosh perseri dhe te marresh vesh tamam sec ndodh. E te tjera e te tjera .... Albana From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Wed Jun 21 19:35:29 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:35:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic diseases? Message-ID: > Une nuk i kam hasur nocionet PKU dhe Tourette, a e di ndonjeri se kujt i > referohen? Mua me lene pershtypjen qe i referohen homoseksualitetit (dhe > kjo me teper duke iu referuar artikullit qe e pason). Ne rast se eshte > keshtu, do thoja qe e vetmja gje qe nuk eshte e pranueshme eshte vetem > titulli i ketij mesazhi. Nuk ka asnje shkencetar serioz qe do te quante > "semundje gjenetike" homoseksualitetin sepse nuk eshte provuar qe eshte > rrjedhim i nje defekti gjenik. Ditto, nuk ka absolutisht asnje prove qe homoseksualiteti eshte problem gjenetik; Nuk ka prova bindese per shoqerimin e homoseksualitetit me asnje gjen, (e aq me pak te jete provuar ndonje lidhje shkak-pasoje e ndonje gjeni me homoseksualitetin;) Studimet qe jane bere kanse studiuar vellezerit. Ne qofte se eshte e vertete qe gjenet percaktojne homoseksualitetin, (meqenese vellezerit kane material gjenetik te ngjashem) kur njeri vella eshte homo, do pritet qe vellai tjeter, meqe ka material te ngjashem, do kete edhe ai shanse te larta per te qene homo; Nga statistikat eshte vene re se kur kemi 2 vellezer binjake homozigote, nese njeri nga ta eshte homo, atehere ne 52% te rasteve edhe tjetri eshte homo. (binjaket homozigote jane me material gjenetik 100% te njejte). Kur vellezerit jane binjake johomozigote, shanset e konkordances jane rreth 25%; Kur vellezerit jane thjesht vellezer -- jo binjake -- konkordanca eshte mjaft me e vogel; Me sa di une nuk ka pasur studime te monozigoteve te ndare nga njeri tjetri. Nga ana tjeter ka pasur nje studim te konkordances te homoseksualitetit ne vellezerit e adoptuar. Vellezer te tille nuk kane pse te kene homoseksualitet te njejte nese homoseksualiteti eshte i trashegueshem, porse ne fakt konkordanca per vellezerit e adaptuar ishte e ngjashme me ate te vellezerve natyrale jobinjake. Interpretimi im i ketyre te dhenave eshte se nuk ka baze gjenetike te homoseksualitetit. Ngjashmeria ne seksualitetin e vellezerve spjegohet me kushtet sociale e familiare te njejta. Vellezerit binjake, sidomos ata monozigote, vishen edhe me te njejtat rroba, shoqerohen gjithmone bashke, dhe natyrisht, per shkak te rrethanave te tilla ata zhvillojne te njejtat sjellje ndaj botes te jashtme. Nese statistika te tilla bindin ndokend se homoseksualiteti eshte gjenetik / i trashegueshem, atehere duhet te besojme se edhe kepucaria eshte profesion qe transmetohet me gjenet. Puna ngaterrohet nga ca te dhena te tjera. Eshte pare per shembull se ne familjet e homoseksualeve ka me shume teze sesa daja. Kjo nuk eshte aq e thjeshte te spjegohet. Ka pasur hipoteza, po me sa di une, prape se prape ka pak prova se homoseksualiteti eshte gjenetik. (Nje hipoteze ishte se nje gjen ose disa gjene te lidhra me X shkaktojne edhe homoseksualitetin, edhe abortimin e hershem te shumices te embrioneve te dajave, prandaj homoseksualet kane me shume teze sesa daja. Jane permendur gjenet X_ce, X_ist, etj.) Si perfundim, homoseksualiteti _mundet_ te jete problem gjenetik, i trashegueshem, etc. Por duhet mbajtur mend se sot eshte ne mode qe cdo gje qe ndodh t'i atribuohet gjeneve. Sot supozohet se vrasesit, kriminelet (dhe homoseksualet) i bejne ato qe bejne sepse "kane gjenet e tilla". Kjo eshte pak ekstreme, deterministe, etj. Ka te ngjare qe homoseksualiteti te jete dicka e mesuar gjate jetes, aspak dicka e trasheguar. Dikur ne mesjete ishte ne mode qe te digjeshin shtriga sa here qe ndodhte ndonje gje e padeshirueshme; mbase ne te ardhmen shprehja "gjueti shtrigash" do zevendesohet me "gjueti gjenesh"). Derisa gjenetistet te na mbushin mendjen se kemi te bejme vertet me nje problem gjenetik, homoseksualiteti mbetet nje crregullim psikologjik. Albi P.S. PKU duket se jane inicialet e "phenylketonuria", qe eshte semundje gjenetike klasike, pasoje e mungeses te fenilalaninehidroksilazes; Tourette's syndrome eshte problem neurologjik, me etiologji jo fort te njohur, por supozohet qe eshte ca e trashegueshme. ____albi_______________________________________________________________ http://icarus.cc.uic.edu/~aqeli1 From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Wed Jun 21 22:22:14 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:22:14 -0700 Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic diseases? Message-ID: <002501bfdbf0$aefe5240$3eacf880@xyz.uic.edu> read this article -- related to the discussion: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/284/5414/571 ". . . Discovery of 'Gay Gene' Questioned Ingrid Wickelgren Six years ago, molecular geneticist Dean Hamer and his colleagues at the National Cancer Institute (NCI) announced to great fanfare that they had found a genetic link to male homosexuality. Their work indicated, they said, that an as yet unidentified gene on the X chromosome influences who develops the trait (Science, 16 July 1993, p. 321). Researchers were excited by the possibility of one day learning the biological basis for sexual orientation but also wary, given that initial reports of genetic linkages for other complex traits, such as manic depression and schizophrenia, had fallen apart under further scrutiny. Now the "gay gene" linkage may be suffering a similar fate. . . ." ------------------------------ Po ashtu, nje nga propozuesit e teorise "homoseksualiteti eshte i trashegueshem" eshte Bailey J.M., i Northwestern University ketu ne Chicago. Below is a reply from a Yale psychiatrist to one of his articles in the "archives of general psychiatry": ". . . To the Editor.--I am surprised that the article by Bailey and Pillard was carried out, written, and published in the December 1991 edition of the Archives with so little regard for the problems in the numerous studies of the genetics of schizophrenia based on the comparison of incidence in monozygotic (MZ) and dizygotic (DZ) twins as well as the various adoption studies that have caused so much misunderstanding and confusion in the field. Are we now to go through the same misapplications of methodology and statistics to homosexuality? Kallmann misled psychiatrists into the belief that schizophrenic disorders were almost entirely genetically determined. His very high concordance rate for MZ twins appears to have been due to his sampling of twins hospitalized for schizophrenia where concordance was generally only noted when both twins were schizophrenic. Further, the fact that DZ twin sisters were almost as concordant as MZ sisters went unnoted. Eventually both Kringlen and Tienari carried out population register studies that showed that the concordance rate for schizophrenia in monozygotic twins was not more than 30%, and perhaps much less. The recruitment procedure used by Bailey and Pillard, advertising in gay magazines, may have produced a biased cohort. Then, although I do not fully understand their recruitment, I am puzzled that 115 twins would have 46 adoptive brothers when not much more than 2% of all children are adopted. Various studies of twins have suggested, if not demonstrated, that factors other than genetics can be responsible for similar behavioral traits in identical twins, including psychopathology, as well as strikingly different behavioral characteristics. The problem is more important in homosexuality than in schizophrenia because the twins grow up with mirror images of themselves that can magnify their so-called narcissism, they are apt to be raised more similarly than DZ twins, etc. As the authors recognized, there is at least one flaw in the data they assembled. Relying on genetics alone, 9.2% of the nontwin brothers were believed by the homosexual proband to be homosexual or bisexual in contrast to 22% of the DZ cotwins (and 11% of the adoptive brothers). Of course, reasons for the discrepancy can be offered, as the authors did. However, if we look past the findings, an alternative explanation can be just as valid, namely that the genetic influence is being overvalued. The difficulties presented by adoption studies can be noted in the studies of Rosenthal, Kety, and Wender, carried out at great expense of time and money, all of which, despite the authors' claims, failed to show any clear-cut evidence of a notable genetic factor. These authors' erroneous claims misguided schizophrenia research for many years, and still do. Tienari appreciated the considerable difficulty of carrying out a properly controlled adoption study, and took stringent measures to compare the environmental milieu of the adopting index and control families. It is noteworthy that the adopted-away offspring of schizophrenic biologic mothers only became schizophrenic when raised in seriously disturbed adoptive families, whereas only several adoptees of nonschizophrenic mothers became schizophrenic in such disturbed adoptive families. Bailey and Pillard take the anthropologic studies of Stoller and Herdt to suggest that "sexual orientation is not conditioned by sexual experiences in adolescence." Among the Sambia people Herdt studied, homosexuality is virtually enforced prior to adolescence and until the young men marry, when they are very likely to have serious difficulties with heterosexuality. Moreover, among some New Guinea peoples along the Papuan Gulf, such as the Marind Anim, the men continue to practice homosexuality after marriage. Such knowledge may be esoteric, but, in ancient Athens and Sparta, it was considered an honor for a youth to become the homosexual partner of a nobleman. In brief, there may be a genetic component to homosexuality; it is the current fashion to find a major genetic component in all behavioral conditions. I simply wish to emphasize there is still need for more, and clearly better, studies. Theodore Lidz, MD Department of Psychiatry Yale University 25 Park St New Haven, CT 06519 . . ." From Fifapi at aol.com Thu Jun 22 01:28:40 2000 From: Fifapi at aol.com (Fifapi at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:28:40 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] ca informacion per genetic engineering(Part I) Message-ID: <7e.6922cca.2682fe08@aol.com> Improving human race by means of genetic engineering goes back to Plato's Republic. Plato proposed selective breeding as a means of improving society. English scientist Francis Galton, to describe the study of human improvement by genetic means, first used eugenics as a term. Louise Brown was the first test tube baby in 1978.Human genome project is a worldwide cooperative effort to map the entire human genetic make-up. In the end of 1997 only 2-3 % has been finished, but it is considered before schedule. Cloning is the process of producing genetically identical individuals through asexual reproduction. The production of large quantities of specific specie of DNA into a vector in-vitro followed by infection and replication of the recombined vector in a host cell. Blastocryst (embryo) splitting happens when there are only two to eight cells. Preembryo. No organs have formed yet. First happened in 1993 in George Washington University. The other kind is Nuclei transfer that is subdivided into two categories: Nuclei transfer using fetal and embryonic cells - nucleus from an early embryo is transferred to an unfertilized egg from which the original nucleus has been removed. First success in vertebrate animals was in 1952. Nuclei transfer using adult cells means taking the cell of an adult and transferring it into a mature egg from which the nucleus has been removed. It has been successful in plants, used to increase durability and usefulness. This is the kind of cloning that Dolly was produced from. Before all failed on mammals. Genetic engineering- the general practice of manipulation of DNA using restriction enzymes and vectors in order to form large quantities or new combinations of genes or gene products or to put genes into a new cell. It includes both gene therapy, in which a new gene is introduced to override a defective gene, and genetic enhancement. Genetic enhancement involves the manipulation of the germ cell to improve the genetic code of a being. In-vitro recombination- the formation of new combinations of DNA sequences outside a cell (in a test tube) using restriction enzymes and DNA ligase. Vector- an infectious DNA that can be used to carry pieces of non-infectious DNA into a cell Other: DNA ligase, Restriction enzymes. 1997 Cloning Prohibition Act outlaws for a period of 5 years research on cloning with government money or in government institutions. From Fifapi at aol.com Thu Jun 22 01:03:00 2000 From: Fifapi at aol.com (Fifapi at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:03:00 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Re: loja guraxhokthi Message-ID: <4e.73cf9d3.2682f804@aol.com> Kjo loje loje luhej ne Durres mbaj mend kur isha i vogel, por jo me gura por me berthama pjeshkash ne kampin e kantierit ne Durres, ne plepa. loja mbaj mend kishte disa hapa per vec mbledhjes se berthamave te pjeshkave kishte levizjet e pirunit, luges e te tjera si keto qe une nuk i mbaj mend. Disa mund te qeshin por esht e evertete. Tani ka kohe qe nuk luhet me. Pra jam kunder asaj teze qe eshte zhdukur si loje From rozafa at egroups.com Thu Jun 22 02:15:49 2000 From: rozafa at egroups.com (rozafa at egroups.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 02:15:49 -0400 Subject: [Alb-club] O c'na kenaqi - Mehdu Thaci! Message-ID: <3951AF15.3F38@egroups.com> O c'na kenaqi - Mehdu Thaci! A e merr rrogen ne Qeverine e shtetit kukull ky Mehduh Thaci i cili nuk le gja pa thene per Fadil Sulejmanin, ne gazeten FAKTI( lexo SHPIFJA) dhe na e ngre ne qiell Van der Shulin ( ja kam hequr t qellimisht), dhe natyrisht PDSH e Maqedonise, ketij shtet'thi te sajuar, shtet'thi magjypesh e ciganesh. E dine shqiptaret kush eshte Fadil Sulejmani e nuk ka mbetur Menduhi ti beje biografine. Fadil Sulejmanin e futen ne burg magjypet e Shkupit, por nuk e preken as me pupul Mehduh Thacin i cili i lepihet magjypeve te Maqedonise mire e bukur.. Prandaj levereve te tij mos ja vini veshin sepse mesa duket ha corbe te prishur nga kazani i Grigorovit... Nuk e vini re qe i qelbet goja. O c'na kenaqi - Mehdu Thaci! U baj salam gjithe Shkerdho-Maqedonise Kol Tuxhari nga Tivari --------------------------------- Sadat Shabani shkruan: | Nga k?ndi im ;Fadil?s university shop ... e berlloge te tjera shkupjane-magjypjane From olsi77 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 22 02:19:38 2000 From: olsi77 at hotmail.com (Olsi .) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:19:38 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Xhami për shqiptarët dhe emigrantët e tjerë në Athinë Message-ID: <20000622061938.68714.qmail@hotmail.com> Xhami p?r shqiptar?t dhe emigrant?t e tjer? n? Athin? http://alb.albaniannews.com/privateadn/2000/06/22/page12.asp ATHIN? - T? mart?n, Parlamenti i Greqis? ka miratuar vendimin p?r t? nd?rtuar nj? xhami dhe qend?r kulturore n? rrethinat e Athin?s, q? t? sh?rbej? si vend ku 60 mij? emigrant?t mysliman? n? qytet t? kryejn? sh?rbesat e tyre fetare. Kompleksi do t? nd?rtohet 18 kilomentra larg qendr?s s? qytetit, n? Paeania. K?shtu ka njoftuar e p?rditshmja Kathimerini. Kjo xhami parashikohet t? p?rfundoj? brenda vitit 2004. Mysliman?t e Athin?s, kryesisht emigrant? nga Shqip?ria, Lindja e Af?rt, Pakistani dhe Bangladeshi, aktualisht, nuk kan? nj? vend p?r t'u falur, ndon?se n? apartamentet private jan? improvizuar nj? s?r? xhamish ilegale. ************************ Athens Mosque to Serve Moslem Albanians, other Emigrants http://www.albaniannews.com/privateadn/2000/06/22/page11.asp ATHENS - Greece?s Parliament on Tuesday voted in favor of building a mosque and cultural center on the outskirts of Athens to serve the religious needs of the capital?s estimated 60,000 Muslim residents. The complex will be built 18 kilometers out of the center of town, in the rapidly vanishing farmland of Paeania, Athens daily Kathimerini said. It is scheduled for completion by the 2004 Olympics. The Muslims of Athens - mainly immigrants from Albania, the Near East, Pakistan and Bangladesh - currently have no official place of worship, although a number of illegal mosques operate in private apartments and rented buildings. Out of the 100 MPs constituting Parliament?s summer session, 55 voted in favor of the project, 40 against, three remained neutral and two abstained. In a roll-call vote called by opposition New Democracy, all but one of the socialist members supported the mosque action, along with Synaspismos Left Coalition?s deputies and independent MP Giorgos Psaharopoulos - who was elected on the conservative New Democracy ticket. ND voted against, while the three Greek Communist Party (KKE) members declared themselves ?present.? KKE noted that, while it favors an Islamic place of worship in the capital, it feels it should be built in the depressed Gazi area of central Athens, where many Muslims live. One of the two MPs who abstained was PASOK?s Alexandros Chryssanthakopoulos, who vehemently opposed the scheme, claiming a mosque in Paeania could come to serve as a focal center for Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From shkodra at gmx.de Thu Jun 22 05:48:53 2000 From: shkodra at gmx.de (== Shkodra ==) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:48:53 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [Alb-club] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Phoenix_-_revist=EB_e_re_shqip_n=EB_WWW_-_http://www.darda?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?nia.com/phoenix?= Message-ID: <22679.961667333@www9.gmx.net> Phoenix - revist? e re shqip n? WWW PHOENIX - e p?rkohshme Kulture http://www.dardania.com/phoenix Botues: Bashkimi Katolik i Publicist?ve Shqiptar? Kryeredaktor: Dr. Romeo Gurakuqi Email: Romeo at unishk.albnet.net ? Phoenix - Bashkimi Katolik i Publicist?ve Shqiptar? http://www.dardania.com/phoenix kliko k?tu
-- Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net From Fifapi at aol.com Thu Jun 22 01:29:18 2000 From: Fifapi at aol.com (Fifapi at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:29:18 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] genetic engineering (part II) Message-ID: Moral issues of cloning and genetic engineering. Human Dignity According to Kant, human dignity requires that humans be treated as ends in themselves, never as a means only. Cloning treats humans as means to an end, because clones are valued only for their desirable genome. Because it is wrong to use a human to carry out someone else's desires, cloning is not morally acceptable. However, it is pointed out that the argument that it is undignified for one person to have the same genome as another is questionable, since we do not consider it an affront to dignity to be one of a set of identical twins. Clones are just delayed twins. Going on this line of thought it is said that cloning reduces people to their genetic codes, so cloning violates human dignity in a way that natural twinning does not. Because cloning includes the destruction of surplus embryos, it also raises the same issues of personhood found in the abortion debate. Some say that cloning violates the personhood and dignity of preembryos, while others maintain that embryos are not persons and therefore do not deserve our moral concern. Also clones, as human inventions, might be denied the rights of personhood. Or since clones, because of their more desirable genomes, might become a new master race, while natural humans are relegated to an inferior role. Also since cloning creates children based on parent's desires, it also harms children's right to an open future and to decide who they are. However the argument against this is that whether we value children for the desirable genomes does not mean that we do not also respect them for who they are. The Right To Be Unique Cloning robs the clone him/itself of the sense to be unique. Since twins occur naturally does not give us the right to put it into mainstream society. Clones have clones of parents that have already lived, thus creating a serious self-identity problem. However, even natural twins have a sense of identity. Although genes are the building blocks for individuals, they do not determine who we are. Nature versus nurture debate. There is also nature and environment that help build somebody's identity. Thus the fear of cloning 100.000 Hitlers if we want to, has no scientific basis. If cloning becomes the mainstream culture children will be the desires of their parents, thus stopping progress, since they might become the rule and being perfect will not try to change. Interfering With Nature Two strands to this argument, one says that only God has the right to change, and make life, and the second is, we cannot interfere with nature. This is one of the poorest arguments, since first, not all people do believe in God, and second since we cannot interfere with nature, then should we stop science, doctors or astronomy, since most modern science is dedicated to humanity and interfering with nature in every aspect. Redefining Parenthood And Family Kass argues that cloning would change our ideas of parenting and family. Particularly would it be wise to separate sexuality and family, which is the fundamental unit of all societies. Also, cloning would take the men's role in reproduction. A man that wants to clone himself would need a womb and the egg, a woman that wants to clone herself would not need a man. However, it is maintained that the right to have two parents is an artificial right, not a genuine one. As for making men superfluous, cloning does not rule out fathers, the clone might have two social parents anyway. This actually, might be the only way for some couples to have children. Autonomy And Reproductive Rights According to many philosophers, autonomy is the most fundamental human right. So, the right to procreate, including procreation through cloning is part of this fundamental right. People might have strong feelings against people trying to clone themselves, or cloning the dead, or using genetic engineering to make the perfect child, but feelings do not make these practices morally wrong so long as the children's interests are protected after birth. On the other hand, looking at the high cost of reproductive cloning and genetic engineering, making it available could severely curtail reproductive freedom of parents that cannot afford it. The parents might be afraid of making a less-than-perfect child in a society full of perfect system, because of risks of their children of failure and discrimination. Justice As Fairness Some people are concerned that since cloning is expensive, it might be only a commodity of the rich people, thus deepening the difference between the classes, and increase the gap, thus making it very difficult to move up. Rawls acknowledges that eugenics could create a caste system that divides society into separate biological populations. Since justice would be to use the ones whose talents are the best, then the clones might be used always, but would this be justice, and fair, since it is underlined that only some classes can use the wisdom of Eugenics. Also, being on this train of thought (justice as fairness) using genetic tests to identify harmful genes, what would they bring to insurance companies policies, and the workplace in general. From albana at zool.unizh.ch Thu Jun 22 06:43:49 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:43:49 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic diseases? In-Reply-To: <200006220402.e5M42sQ11477@alb-net.com> Message-ID: Albi, >nuk ka absolutisht asnje prove qe homoseksualiteti eshte problem gjenetik; E ke thene josakte. Duhet thene: Nuk ka asnje prove bindese qe nje gjen apo nje grup gjenesh shkaktojne drejteperdrejt homoseksualizmin. Perse e bej kete verejtje: eshte nje tendence per ta reduktuar cdo gje ne nje sistem te thjeshte mendelian, ku nje gjen eshte pergjegjes per nje fenotip. Kjo nuk do te thote qe ligjet e trashegimise se mendelit nuk jane te verteta, ato thjesht nuk shpjegojne cdo gje. Te thuash qe ka nje gjen per homoseksualizmin do te thote qe ky gjen duhet te jete pergjegjes ne gjendjen e tij te shendetshme edhe per heteroseksualizmin (sepse te gjithe njerezit kane te njejten pakete gjenesh). Ne rast se ke arritur ne kete pike ke thene qe homoseksualizmi eshte nje semundje gjenetike. Pavaresisht nga fakti qe Mendel eshte themeluesi i Gjenetikes dhe do kujtohet per kete deri ne fund te jetes, eshte nje fakt qe gjenetika sot eshte avancuar ne koncepte dhe kompleksitete trashegimie shume te elaboruara dhe sofistikuara. Ka shume te ngjare qe homoseksualiteti te jete nje problem gjenetik por shume ndryshe nga sa njerezit kuptojne sot me problem gjenetik. Une u mundova te jepja disa shembuj nga nje model shume me intensiv i studiuar sic eshte drosophila, ku shume gjene duket te cojne ne homoseksualitet. Por asnje nga keto gjene nuk eshte pergjegjese direkt per homoseksualitetin, rolin e tyre primar ata e kane ne percaktimin e fenotipeve shume te ndryshme nga sjellja seksuale, dhe secili nga keto gjene con ne homoseksualitet vetem ne nje background te caktuar gjenetik (qe eshte i ndryshem per secilin prej tyre) , gje qe flet me shume per nje rol anesor te shume gjeneve ne sjellje seksuale. Me sa duket sjellja seksuale ehste e ndjeshme ndaj ndryshimeve gjenetike. >Derisa gjenetistet te na mbushin mendjen se kemi te bejme vertet me nje >problem gjenetik, homoseksualiteti mbetet nje crregullim psikologjik. Crregullimet psikologjike jane edhe probleme gjenetike. Psh, ekziston nje evidence qe agresiviteti eshte i shoqeruar me nivele te larta serotonine. Qe te kesh nivele te larta serotonine kjo percaktohet se pari nga shprehja e gjeneve te involvuar ne sintezen e serotonines.Se dyti, serotonina eshte nje neurotransmitter dhe si i tille gjendet ne synapset e neuroneve i akumuluar ne vezikulat sinaptike. Neurotransmitterit leshohen jashte ketyre vezikulave atehere kur ato nevojiten. Pyetja eshte, jane nivelet e larta te serotonines rezultat i mbishprehjes se gjenit, apo i mbileshimit te serotonines nga vezikulat ku gjendet e akumuluar? Ne se eshte kjo e dyta e vertete, kush e percakton kete leshim? Perse kjo molekule X qe ben sinjalizimin duhet te jete e mbiaktivizuar? Kush e inicion kete mbiaktivizim? Ne se eshte shoqeria sinjali, atehere si perkthehet nje sinjal shoqeror nga molekula dhe si nderfutet apo inicion nje cascade reaksionesh biologjike? Cilet jane perktheysat? Duke pasur parasysh qe edhe keto perkthyesa jane prodhime gjenetike pyetja eshte cfare ndryshon sinjali shoqeror tek keto molekula? Konformacionin apo nivelet? Si? Problemi eshte qe njerezit duan pergjigjet dhe i duan ato sa me shpejt, nderkohe qe ne akoma nuk dime se si funksionon ADN-ja jone, dhe akoma nuk dime se sa mistere te tjera duhet te zbulohen per te pare se sa gabim apo mire i kemi ditur gjerat deri tani. Albana From silke.blumbach at t-online.de Thu Jun 22 07:00:24 2000 From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:00:24 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] [Fwd: Fundi i nje dashurie te madhe] Message-ID: <3951F1C7.80EEE114@t-online.de> Silke Blumbach schrieb: > klanlist - http://www.klan.albnet.net > > Te dashur miq, > > sic e dine disa prej jush, para dy javesh e humba dashurine e jetes, me > te cilin isha gati fejuar, per shkak te dashurise sime per Shqiperine > (ndonese perpiqesha t'i tregoja qe ai ishte ne radhe te pare dhe me ne > fund isha e gatshme te jetoj me ate portugezin ne Portugali). Pas > kancerit kjo eshte nje goditje tjeter edhe me e rende ... > - Ne fund eshte me mire per ne te dy qe ka ndodhur ashtu; dhe une di qe > nuk jam e vetme qe ishte detyruar t'ia sakrifikoj dashurine Shqiponjes > tiranike ... > > Silke Liria Blumbach > > *********************************************************************************************** > > Letra e fundit e Carlosit (e perkthyer nga portugalishtja) > > Preferoj q? t? jetosh n? Shqip?ri duke menduar p?r mua n? vend q? t? > jetosh me mua duke menduar p?r Shqip?rin?. > > E konsideroj si te pamundur q? ndonj? her? p?rkushtimi yt ndaj > Shqip?ris? t? ulet kurse ti nuk ke jetuar atje, s? paku p?r nj? koh?, n? > form? t? rregullt. > (nj? form? e rregullt do t? ishte po t? punoje dhe t? jetoje atje n? > m?nyr? t? vahdueshme p?r nj? afat kurr? m? t? shkurt?r sa dy vjet dhe > gjate t? cilit ti do t? ishe e pavarur nga ?dofar? p?rkrahjeje themelore > nga t? tjer?t: sht?pi, ushqim, pun?, shpenzimet e jet?s s? p?rditshme, > sh?ndet; duke jetuar vet?m nga vetja) > > 100% e mendimeve te tua jan? lidhur me Shqip?rin?: -T? jetosh n? > Shqip?ri - Miq shqiptar? - Kosova - Shqipja - Sht?pia jote n? > Stuttgart - Ushqim - ?ndrrat e t? gjitha net?ve. > > Kush nuk ?sht? shqiptar ose me bindje 100% shqiptare, vet?m duke t? > dashur shum? ai mund t? jetoj? gati i mbytur n? k?t? "Det Shqiptar" q? > ?shte jeta jote. > Vetem kush e njeh thell?sisht pasionin t?nd p?r Shqip?rin? dhe > zbraz?tin? q? e krijove p?rreth p?r ?do gj? q? nuk ?sht? shqiptare, mund > t? pranoj? nj? p?rkushtim aq t? fort? ndaj k?saj ??shtjeje duke ditur q? > nuk mbetet gati asgj? nga burimet tuaja (materiale, fizike dhe > emocionale) p?r t'ua p?rkushtuar ??shtjeve t? tjera, pavar?sisht nga > ?'mund t? jen?. > > N? mendimin tim (nuk jam psikolog ose kompetent n? k?t? fush?), nj? > p?rvoj? p?r t? jetuar n? Shqip?ri do t? kishte p?r ty dy rezultate t? > mundshme: > a) Sjell p?rsosm?rin? dhe mund t? jetosh e lumtur dhe p?rgjithmon? n? > Shqip?ri > b) I plot?son nje her? e p?rgjithmon? nevojat e tua p?r nj? lidhje aq t? > thell? me Shqip?rin? dhe i shteron k?to nevoja duke lejuar pastaj nj? > jet? joshqiptare, dmth. ku burimet e tua mund t? p?rdoren edhe p?r > ??shtje t? tjera. > > Un? nuk pranoj q? t? shnd?rrosh secilin q?ndrim me mua n? Portugali n? > nj? banj? tjet?r n? klim? shqiptare; me k?t? dua t? them shum? qart? q? > nevojat e tua shqiptare duhet t? jen? t? plot?suara qartas ose t? > p?rcaktuara (vet?m pasi jetove n? Shqip?ri) para se t? shkosh n? > Portugali. > > Po t? mund t? pikturoheshin jeta jote, interesat e tu, p?rpjekjet e tua > dhe ?ndrrat e tua n? nj? piktur? t? vetme, at?her? kjo piktur? do t? > ishte Shqip?ria dhe un? do t? isha vet?m nj? turist n? pejzazh. Nuk dua > q? ky imazh t'u transmetohet njer?zve q? m? duan p?rve? teje, sepse kjo > do t? m? b?nte t? vuaj dhe do t'i b?nte t? vuajn? ata njer?z. P?r mua > ?sht? i pranuesh?m sepse i njoh motivimet e tua t? menj?hershme, por p?r > t? tjer?t do t? ishte i pakuptuesh?m. Un? nuk dua t? kaloj p?r k?t? > situat?. Definitivisht. > > K?to jan? arsyet se pse kurr? nuk k?rkoj t? t? largoj nga Shqp?ria dhe > pse p?rpiqem t? t? ndihmoj n? lidhjen t?nde me Shqip?rin? duke pothuajse > t? detyruar t? v?sh n? praktik? disa prej ideve t? tua t? pun?s > pro-shqiptare, duke madje i kund?rv?n? tendenc?s sate t? shtysh per me > von? pun?t dhe vendimet. > > Sa p?r vendbanimin tim: > - Nuk do te jetoj n? Shqip?ri > - Vet?m do t? shkoj t? jetoj n? Gjermani kur dhe n? qoft? se nevojat e > tua shqiptare t? jen? plot?suar (?sht? e logjikshme q? nuk do t? shkoj > p?r n? Gjermani p?r t? jetuar n? kushte t? pasigurta duke rrezikuar > pun?n dhe mbijetes?n nd?rsa ekziston mund?sia t? ik?sh p?r n? Shqip?ri) > - N? t? gjitha raste t? tjera do t? jem n? Portugali (me p?rjashtim t? > gjendjeve periodike t? pun?s n? ndonj? vend tjet?r) > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to kl_list-unsubscribe at listbot.com > > GET PAINLESS BUSINESS FINANCING! > Comparison shop for, apply for, and secure financing from the > nation's best-known financial institutions. One short application > gets you the financing your business needs. Get the financing you > need today at LiveCapital.com! > > http://www.bcentral.com/fcsponsor/livecapital -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: silke.blumbach.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 365 bytes Desc: Visitenkarte f?r Silke Blumbach Url : http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/alb-club/attachments/20000622/6630e8f7/attachment.vcf From ardi5 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 22 07:30:43 2000 From: ardi5 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?ardian=20kanina?=) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 04:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Phoenix !!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <20000622113043.16839.qmail@web702.mail.yahoo.com> Nga emri mu duk si gazete Amerikane po kur e hapa sitin mora vesh qe eshte gazete Shqiptare .Trajtonte ?eshtje te ndryshme ,por ajo qe nuk me pelqeu ishta gjuha qe perdoret prej kesaj gazete.U mundova te lexoj ate shkrimin e Prof. Dr. Kristo Maloki por ishte veshtire .Me pak fjale artikujt jane shkruar ne dilektin Shkodran.Me duket di?ka jo pozitive .Pse nuk perdoret gjuha letrare Shqiptare?Pse? Po t'ju referohemi shkrimeve rreth Shqiperisie te personave te autoreve te huaj ata shprehen qe neper trojet Shqiptare praktikohen gjuhe te ndryshme komunikimi.Kjo nuk eshte e vertete sepse dialektet Shqiptare jane pak a shume te kuptueshme ne te gjitha trojet Shqiptare.Mendimi im eshte qe ne shtyp dhe media plus internet te perdoret gjuha letrare Shqiptare.Shiko perdorimi i dialektit Shkodran tek Phoenixi nuk perben ndonje mekat aq te madh per gjuhen Shqipe ne krahasim me poshterimin qe po i bejne gjuhes Shqipe gazetat e tipit Koha-Jone,Shekulli, etj te cilet po perdorin neper shkrimet e tyre me shume fjale te huaja sesa Shqiptare. Ne faqen kryesore lexova : Bashkimi Katolik i Publicist?ve Shqiptar? Shkoder ......nje emerim i tille shkon andej nga polarizimi i shoqerise Shqiptare.Emerime te tilla si ,Bashkimi Katolik,Bashkimi Myslyman,apo Bashkimi i Publicitesteve Orthodokse nuk me pelqejne ...........eshte mendimmi im personal. !!!!! Te depolarizojme shoqerine Shqiptare !!!!!!!!! Me nderime A.Kanina. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 10:39:34 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:39:34 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] roli i gjenetikes ne semundje vs variante te normes Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/00 3:47:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, albana at zool.unizh.ch writes: nxitur nga bashkebisedimi mes albit dhe albanes po hedh ca rradhe sic me erdhen duke lexuar. Albi > >nuk ka absolutisht asnje prove qe homoseksualiteti eshte problem gjenetik; albana > E ke thene josakte. Duhet thene: Nuk ka asnje prove bindese qe nje gjen apo > nje grup gjenesh shkaktojne drejteperdrejt homoseksualizmin. a i bie ne sy ndokujt qe ne strukturen e gjuhes se perdorur ka ca si shume perjashtime? fjalet " absolutisht" dhe "asnje " tingelllojne ca si te forta ne veshin tim te ndergjegjshem per faktin qe ne nuk posedojme te verteten absolute. albana >Te thuash qe ka nje gjen per homoseksualizmin do te thote qe ky gjen duhet te >jete pergjegjes ne > gjendjen e tij te shendetshme edhe per heteroseksualizmin (sepse te gjithe > njerezit kane te njejten pakete gjenesh). dakort me pjesen qe kemi nje pakete genesh megjithate ka shkare ca argumenti pasi edhe ne paketa te njejta genesh, genet alele edhe pse percaktojne te njejtin tipar mund te shprehen fenotipikishte si te ndryshem - per miqte tane qe studiojne ne fusha te kitheta me gjenetiken do te perdorja shembullin e thjeshte te ngjyres se syve qe dikush i ka blu e dikush te verdhe. ajo qe me gacmon me shume ne fakt eshte perdorimi i togefjaleshit " gjendje e shendeteshme" - pasi kuptoj qe assumet ahead of time qe norma nenkupton gjendjen e shendeteshme. Norma eshte koncept statistikor, eshte ajo qe haset me shpesh ne popullate dhe jo domosdoshmerisht mbart vlerat e korrektesise apo te te qenit e shendeteshme. Le pastaj po te fusim koeficientin social ne mes, duke patur parasysh konvencionet e percaktuara nga nuk di se kush, ku e kur ... shkojme edhe me larg me argumentin e normalitetit. albi > >Derisa gjenetistet te na mbushin mendjen se kemi te bejme vertet me nje > >problem gjenetik, homoseksualiteti mbetet nje crregullim psikologjik. hehe, dallimi mes leaders and followers. ca kane nevoje qe informacioni te serviret ne medium konvencional ne menyre qe te te bejne vend ne kokat e tyre per kontribute te dhene nga njerez unconvencionale. pastaj perseri kjo fjala crregullim. po nuk e di xhanem cilat jane referencat tuaja? pasi pavaresisht nga studimet dhe kerkimet e panumerta, ne cdo moment te dhene ne kohe ka nje qendrim shkencor te pranuar nga te gjitha palet deris ate provohet ndryshe. edhe kush ka kuriozitet ne fushen per te cilen poflasim ia thone emrin klasifikimi DSM-IV qe liston te gjitha crregullimet dhe semundjet PSIKIKE ( jo psikologjike) nga i cili homoseksualizmi ka dale me kohe dhe nuk konsiderohet tashme crregullim i orientimit seksual por thjesht eshte nje zgjedhje dhe lifestyle. Meqe ju operoni me burimet konvencionale them. albana > Crregullimet psikologjike jane edhe probleme gjenetike. jo domosdoshmerisht. ka crregullime me baze gjenetike sikurse ka te tjera me mekanizma te tjere. e kuptoj qe deduktimi i ketij gjeneralizimi eshte munduar te shpjegohet me shembuj., te cilet persa i perket secilit individualisht qendrojne, por perseri ju lutem mundohuni te perdorni fjale qe nuk perfshijne apo perjashtojne gjithcka. albana > Problemi eshte qe njerezit duan pergjigjet dhe i duan ato sa me shpejt, > nderkohe qe ne akoma nuk dime se si funksionon ADN-ja jone, dhe akoma nuk > dime se sa mistere te tjera duhet te zbulohen per te pare se sa gabim apo > mire i kemi ditur gjerat deri tani. e thene drejt PS: nice exchanging with you From ardi5 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 22 10:56:24 2000 From: ardi5 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?ardian=20kanina?=) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Sikur vizitova ndonje site Serb ! Message-ID: <20000622145624.21796.qmail@web702.mail.yahoo.com> Rastesisht vizitova sitin Shqiptar "ICC "nje tip guide Shqiptare .Nder te tjerash vizitova linksin "Travel in Albania" mendova se do te gjeja ndonje informacion turistik rreth Shqiperise.Jo! Aty ishtte futur nje tip "Travel Warning" prej Departamentit Amerikan te Shtetit.U habita ne nje site Shqiptare reklamohet urrejta e Departamnetit Amerikan te Shtetit ndaj Shqiperise.Po,departamenti pse nuk informon pak rreth statistikave te fundit te krimeve ne bote ku metropolet Amerikane zene vendin e pare te kriminalitetit per 100mije banore .Neper getot Amerikane vriten me miljona njerez ne vite ,vjedhje te jashtezakonshme ,perdhunime ,etj.....ku lexova ne nje gazete para pak kohesh ne Amerike ?do vite zhduken rreth 400mije femije u habita,padyshim departamenti nuk do te informoje boten rreth krimeve dhe vjedhjeve ne Amerike.departamenti amerikan deshiron ta paraqese ameriken si "best country in the world".Shume shtete bejne nje gje te tille ,pasqyrojne vetem anet pozitive. Ndersa Shqiptaret jane te paret qe me nje apasionim te jashtezakonshem informojne boten rreth aneve negative te Shqiperise.Rreth Shqiperise behen filma ,shkruhen libra ku Shqiptaret paraqiten si injorante dhe primitive edhe shteti yne nuk proteston fare ....ai justifikimi liri shtypi. Me kujtohet nje shprehje e vjeter popullore : edhe po te jesh i varfer mos e shpreh varferine.....teper kuptimplote .Kadare pati te drejte kur u shpreh ata persona qe shajne Shqiperine jashte shtetit jane jashteqitja e vendit.Ndoshta disa ndjehen krenare kur shajne Shqiperine dhe himnizojne keto shtetet e tjera ku kane shkuar .Mendojne se duke share,fyer Shqiperine justifikojne injorancen qe i ka mbuluar. !!! Kush shan atdhun shan vetveten !!!!!!!!!!!! Me nderime A.Kanina! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From Fifapi at aol.com Thu Jun 22 01:29:55 2000 From: Fifapi at aol.com (Fifapi at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:29:55 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] genetic engineering(part III) Message-ID: <62.49c3f8e.2682fe53@aol.com> Consequentialist Arguments. These arguments weigh the harms of cloning against the benefits. Since no data is available, these are mostly speculations (in the scientific term). Bioethicists maintain that because of the possibility for misuse of cloning is so great, all human cloning ought to be banned. G.E. some argue that cloning will lead to the commodification, and possibly even the mass production, of children and in the breakdown of parent/child relationship. While others point out the benefits of cloning to infertile couples. Also cloning does not harm the offspring, since the clone owes its own existence to the cloning process, and as such by his parents. Also the parent/child relationship might be strengthened since child has a desirable genome. Some scientists are concerned that cloning will undermine human diversity. Primary challenge in social interaction is accepting other people-as other, rather than mirror of ourselves, and this includes our children as well. If we throw out genes that are harmful today, the recessive genes would make us less flexible genetically. This makes us less capable of adapting to new climates or new illnesses. Also, there is concern about breeding of cloned animals and agricultural species, producing a homogenous population. In these cases, genetic diversity, necessary about adaptation, may fall below acceptable limits, and the consequences might be that a single disease might wipe out a whole species. In 1970 half of maize crop in the USA was lost to one disease. The loss was attributed to lack of genetic diversity. The case would be the same for humans, a drastic change in the climate might have disastrous effects. We also do not know the effect of using adult cells to create clones. As a matter of fact, earlier this year, in the Florida Times Union, there was an article about Dolly, her cells were aging faster than normal, meaning that Dolly would die faster than other sheep. A lot has been seen about the cloned mammals, like sheep or cows, it has been observed that the rate of miscarriages is very high, and birth defects, as well as unexpected alterations that affect development. However in spring of 1998 Dolly gave birth to a healthy lamb, Bonny, so some of these fears have been allayed. Also, what does it mean to be perfect, who defines what is perfect or not. Is perfect based on consequences, or a choice of the parents? Parents would impose their ideas of perfect to the new generation. By doing so they will control the destiny of the future. So the reject of today might be the genius of tomorrow, the world goes on and progresses. Today's genius might be tomorrow's past Also would cloning be the best remedy to producing drugs. In one hand we would evaluate the costs of genetic engineering, and in the other hand we would weigh the costs of today's methods. Also, important to say, a utilitarian would balance this with the pain and suffering caused to animals used to produce these drugs. The Rights Of Nonhuman Animals It has been proved that animals and humans have more scientific relationships than the myths would predict. In fact, sheep and dogs have more chromosomes than humans. On this issue, it would be interesting to see what the animal-rights group has to offer us From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Thu Jun 22 13:23:41 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:23:41 -0700 Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic diseases? Message-ID: <015f01bfdc6e$9d092a00$3eacf880@xyz.uic.edu> >Albi, > >> nuk ka absolutisht asnje prove qe homoseksualiteti eshte problem >>gjenetik; > > E ke thene josakte. Duhet thene: Nuk ka asnje prove bindese qe nje gjen > apo nje grup gjenesh shkaktojne drejteperdrejt homoseksualizmin. Perse > e bej kete verejtje: eshte nje tendence . . . . Albi: nuk ka asnje prove qe blerja e domateve zemerkau ne vend te domateve bullgare eshte problem gjenetik. Albana: E ke thene josakte. Duhet thene: Nuk ka asnje prove bindese qe nje gjen apo nje grup gjenesh shkaktojne drejteperdrejt blerjen e domateve zemerkau ne vend te domateve bullgare. Perse e bej kete verejtje: eshte nje tendence per ta reduktuar cdo gje ne nje sistem te thjeshte mendelian, ku nje gjen eshte pergjegjes per nje fenotip. Kjo nuk do te thote qe ligjet e trashegimise se mendelit nuk jane te verteta, ato thjesht nuk shpjegojne cdo gje. Te thuash qe ka nje gjen per blerjen e domateve zemerkau do te thote qe ky gjen duhet te jete pergjegjes ne gjendjen e tij te shendetshme edhe per blerjen e domateve bullgare (sepse te gjithe njerezit kane te njejten pakete gjenesh). . . . > Me sa duket sjellja seksuale ehste e ndjeshme ndaj ndryshimeve gjenetike. > Crregullimet psikologjike jane edhe probleme gjenetike. Psh, ekziston nje Albana: Me sa duket, zgjedhja e lojit te domateve eshte e ndjeshme ndaj ndryshimeve gjenetike. Crregullimet ne berjen e pazarit te domateve jane edhe probleme gjenetike. Albana, Ka ca qe thone se te gjitha semundjet, pa perjashtim, shkaktohen nga agjente infektive, nga viruse, etj. Gjenet nuk kane gje te bejne me kete pune ose jane thjesht te perfshira pasivisht. Jo vetem e ftohura, por edhe kanceret, budallallepsjet, impotenca, qe te gjitha shkaktohen nga agjente infektive. Edhe mutacionet e delecionet e gjeneve shkaktohen nga agjente infektive. Natyrisht ky eshte qendrim ekstrem, po per ta bere me te kapshem po jap shembullin e ulceres. Para 15 vjetesh nuk dihej se cfare e shkaktonte ulceren. Ulcera ishte semundje teper e keqe, me vuajtje, operacione, etj. Neper librari gjeje libra me 1000 faqe me teori per ulceren. Cfare roli kane gjenet e trashegimia?, Cfare e shkakton rritjen e aciditetit?, pse behet vrima ne stomak?, etj., etj. Pastaj u gjet nje bakter i vogel gram-negativ (Helicobacter pylori) dhe u mor vesh se ai eshte shkaktar i shumices te ulcerave. Sot, me 2 muaj antibiotike ulcera sherohet. (Per kuriozitet, H. pylori supozohet se nxit edhe kancerin e stomakut, kurse kusheriri i tij Campylobacter jejuni eshte pare se paraprin rastet e nje crregullimi neurologjik me emrin "sindroma guillan barre"). > Problemi eshte qe njerezit duan pergjigjet dhe i duan ato sa me shpejt, > nderkohe qe ne akoma nuk dime se si funksionon ADN-ja jone, dhe akoma nuk > dime se sa mistere te tjera duhet te zbulohen per te pare se sa gabim apo > mire i kemi ditur gjerat deri tani. Prandaj eshte e rendesishme te jesh 100% i qarte qe misteret do mbeten mistere deri sa te mos jene me mistere. > sofistikuara. Ka shume te ngjare qe homoseksualiteti te jete nje problem > gjenetik por shume ndryshe nga sa njerezit kuptojne sot me problem > gjenetik. Une u mundova te jepja disa shembuj nga nje model shume me > intensiv i studiuar sic eshte drosophila, ku shume gjene duket te cojne ne > homoseksualitet. Por asnje nga keto gjene nuk eshte pergjegjese direkt > per Me sa kuptoj une, drozofila eshte model i papershtatshem per krahasime e per njohjen me seksualitetin njerezor. Studimet e drozofiles ndihmojne fare pak ose aspak. Se c'ishin ca franceze qe kishin shkruar per kete pune, porse crregullimet ne prodhimin e feromoneve ose ne molekulat e kitines tek drozofila nuk kane asnje dukuri homologe ne njerezit. Seksualiteti i njerezve eshte shume larg koopulimit mekanik te drozofiles. From albana at zool.unizh.ch Thu Jun 22 11:34:16 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepaj) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:34:16 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] ... and my heart goes boom ... In-Reply-To: <200006221501.e5MF15Q26569@alb-net.com> References: <200006221501.e5MF15Q26569@alb-net.com> Message-ID: > Adela0320 at aol.com, sigurisht qe ke te drejte ne shume nga ato qe thuhet, por duhet ta shohesh te gjithen nen kendeveshtrimin se si i jepet nje publiku qe nuk e ka idene , apo ka ide fare siperfaqesore mbi nje teme kaq te komplikuar, nje mundesi per ta kuptuar ate dhe nje mundesi per te hyre ne muhabet. Une jam fare e vetedijshme per te gjitha thjeshtezimet, rrumbullakimet qe kam bere, etj, sepse i kam bere duke pyetur veten se sa i kupton ai tjetri ato qe them une. Ne rast se ti do te diskutosh me saktesi shkencore, te lutem, hajde per nje vizite private dhe i shoshitim keto rafinesa dhe ju veme dukurive dhe fenomeneve edhe emrat e tyre teknike. Mua me duket qe per kompleksitetin e temes nuk i kam rene shume ne qafe saktesise shkencore. Ajo qe une nuk e di eshte se sa e kuptuan apo sa u argetuan ata qe e ndoqen kete diskutim. Me qe jemi tek argetimi, une kam nje sharlatan indian ketu ne radion time qe kendon nje kenge, nen ritme tekno, nje kenge qe nuk ka emer ta pershkruaj. Shkon keshtu: chicken curry in the morning chicken curry in the evening chicken curry allways chicken curry when I sleep I am Rajeev, but not Rajeev Ghandi but however we still share smthing we share our big love for chicken curry Chicken curry in the morning Chicken curry in the evening chicken curry allways chicken curry even when I sleep Ju mori uria? Albana From AGA74 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 12:15:28 2000 From: AGA74 at aol.com (AGA74 at aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 22 12:15:28 2000 Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Menduh Thaci Message-ID: <200006221615.e5MGFkQ27991@alb-net.com> Miredita vellezer dhe motra shqipetar Ky eshte shkrimi im i pari per alb-klubin.Une kisha vetem te shkruaj dicka ne lidhje me intervisten e Thachit dhane revistes Fakti. Une Kim Memetin e kam tezak dhe para 3 javesh ishte te une misafir ne SHBA dhe kishiom biseda si i bejne te gjith shqipetaret (per politike). Une Kimin e njof shum mire dhe eshte nje nder publicistet ma te shquar shqipetar ne Maqedoni, une nuk e thame kete pse ne jemi te afertet po e tham qe ai (Kimi) e flet realitetin se cka ndodh ne Maqedoni. Gabimin me te madh Fadil Sulejmani e beri kur e vury Univirsitetin e Tetove ne duart e partive qe partite te luajne me te. Neve e dime se ne cdo shtet te perendimit univirsitet kane autonomine e vet. Ata te PDSH deri dje e genjejshin popullin se UT do te pranohet nese populli shqipetare e votojen per ate parti. Sot PDSH-ja na thot se neve jemi me perendimin dhe do te bashkpunojme me perendimin dhe e perkrahin idene e Stulit. A e dine se cka ne planin e Stulit????????!!!! Shkurt asgje. Plani i Stulit thot qe univirsiteti i Tetoves te jet si nje college i vogel qe do te meseohen ne Anglisht.!! Shmica prej nesh e dime dieferencen prej collegit dhe Univirsitetit. Poiticharet shqipetare e marrin rroges qofshin ata te PPD para disa viteve edhe keta te PDSH. Pyetja vjen se cka kane bere politicharet tane per keta vitet e fundit ne Maqedoni pervech rritjen e pasunive te tyre??!?!!?!? Kush ka humbur ma teper ne kete situate??? Studentet e UT-s.Me vjen keq per ata student qe e humben kohen ne Tetove.Sot ata politichare i fajsojne disa intelectual apo shkrimtar shqipetar. Turp ju qoft PDSH-PPD qe i kan genjyer deri tani popullin. Propzimi im do te ishte qe te mos pranophet Propozimi i Stulit. Studentet shqipetar qe studijojne neper shtet e huaje tju drejtohen PDSH qe mos pranojne asgje te STUlit dhe te rrijne ne fjalen qe ja dhane popullit dhe studentave te UT-s se do te pranohet UT nese fitone coalicion PDSH/VMRO e sedi kush tjer.... Agron Ademi.P.S From DedaArd at aol.com Thu Jun 22 12:36:09 2000 From: DedaArd at aol.com (DedaArd at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:36:09 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] I hate genes! Message-ID: I really do hate the genes and I am sick of this discussion on the genes...I think medical science have taken everything too far...My concern has nothing to do with the "gay genes" at all and let's forget about the ongoing discussion for a moment. I am just growing kinda sick and tired hearing on the news that some guy needs a new liver or a new lung to keep going...Why? What is the point for that guy to keep going? Why is that news? Why do i need to know about this? Nature used to eliminate the imperfect kids so they don't live long enough to reproduce their flaws and pass their bad genes to the next generation. For me this is just MEDICAL ARROGANCE and it works against nature's plan. I am sick and tired of hearing about a baby kept alive on a resuscitator while doctors wait for a kidney to be flown in on a private jet contibuted by some corporation seeking good publicity because they just killed 6000 people in Pakistan with a chemical spill. I am tired of this sh** being presented on the context of real news. Gossip about sick people is not news and I don't really care about it. This is emotional pandering. From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Thu Jun 22 14:25:59 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:25:59 -0700 Subject: [Alb-club] roli i gjenetikes ne semundje vs variante te normes Message-ID: <017601bfdc77$50f64900$3eacf880@xyz.uic.edu> >>> Derisa gjenetistet te na mbushin mendjen se kemi te bejme vertet me nje >>> problem gjenetik, homoseksualiteti mbetet nje crregullim psikologjik. > > hehe, dallimi mes leaders and followers. he-he, dallimi midis leaders e followers; rrofsh, se po me ben te qesh me zor; > ca kane nevoje qe informacioni te serviret ne medium konvencional ne menyre > qe te te bejne vend ne kokat e tyre per kontribute te dhene nga njerez > unconvencionale. Une per vete me duket se jam i informuar per keto pune (gjenetike, biokimi, fiziologji, patologji, etj). C'eshte me e rendesishmja, jam familiar me sistemet informatike te specializuara aq sa te mund ta lokalizoj informacionin qe me duhet brenda 5 minutash. Tani mbase ka ca ketu ne liste qe nuk jane thjesht "followers", po ata faktikisht i shpikin vete ato qe une i lexoj tek Nature, Lancet, etj. Njerezve te tille une i heq kapelen, i nderoj, dhe i them "bravo". Bravo 1000 here. > edhe kush ka kuriozitet ne fushen per te cilen poflasim ia thone emrin > klasifikimi DSM-IV qe liston te gjitha crregullimet dhe semundjet PSIKIKE ( > jo psikologjike) nga i cili homoseksualizmi ka dale me kohe dhe nuk > konsiderohet tashme crregullim i orientimit seksual por thjesht eshte nje > zgjedhje dhe lifestyle. Vertet qe nuk konsiderohet me si 'crregullim', por qendrimi zyrtar i APA eshte qe "homoseksualiteti eshte i lindur, jo dicka qe mund te zgjidhet me vetedije". Ne per kete pune po diskutonim. (a eshte keshtu?, pse eshte keshtu?, etj.) "Crregullim" apo jo kishte pak rendesi ne ate moment. Per audiencen e listes: DSM eshte nje liber i madh me kritere per diagnozen e semundjeve nervore. Per te vene diagnozen e nje problemi, (uh. . . ne njerin nga 5 akset) psikologu numeron simptomat dhe pastaj lexon ne fund ku thote "ne qofte se pacienti ka 5 nga 8 simptomat e rreshtuara me siper, atehere pacienti e ka filan semundje". DSM eshte rishikuar disa here, dhe pasi 25 vjet me pare APA ra ne konsesus se homoseksualet nuk ishin te semure, DSM e ka hequr h omoseksualitetin nga listat e semundjeve. DSM-IV eshte "politically correct" si dhe pjesa tjeter e shoqerise amerikane. From Admir2000 at netscape.net Thu Jun 22 13:10:02 2000 From: Admir2000 at netscape.net (Admir Bezhani) Date: 22 Jun 00 10:10:02 PDT Subject: [Alb-club] Ardi Deda, welcome back! Message-ID: <20000622171002.23310.qmail@www0x.netaddress.usa.net> Ardi Deda is back guys, did you notice? And he isn't talking about the stock market for once in this list. Ardi, where have you been man? I always thought they cut you out of the list because of some disagreements on your moderation. What I don't understand is why the hatred and the anger. What have you been doing all these months? Were you working as an intern in a Nut House or a Retirement home that all of a sudden you come up with a Hitlerian stand on people's tragedies? How can you be so indifferent to life tragedies like uncurable sicknesses, death etc. I think you are overdoing it. We all have parents, sick realtives and health problems in our families and we are sensitive about these issues. Spare us your arrogance please! ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From mfatos at hotmail.com Thu Jun 22 12:49:18 2000 From: mfatos at hotmail.com (Fatos Mucha) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:49:18 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] cregullira ne harmonizim Message-ID: <20000622164918.79230.qmail@hotmail.com> ...Per ata qe mi kane ndjekur shkrimet, tashme eshte e qarte se te qenit atmosferik do te thote ti pershtatesh motit. E pra sot ne New York aspak si dita e pare e veres, ben ere, eshte zagushi, shpesh here bie shi, dielli eshte fshehur nuk e di se ku e une ndjej cregullime ne harmonizimin tim emocional e mendor. Pra koka me zemren s'po nderlidhen. Ky proces me shtyn te marr vendime jo te zgjuara. Me kete dua te them, te ndejtura qe nuk rrjedhin. Meqe ra fjala per rrjedhjen, mua me pelqejne mendimet e rrjedhura te njerezve te rrjedhur. Edhe une rrjedh. Po, po me ndodh shpesh. S'me pelqen te perseris fjale te perseriteshme, por ju lutem merrni kuptimin fizik te kesaj fjale, jo ate psiqik. Rrjedhja per mua paraqit levizje, rezonim, rrugedalje. You me te drejte mund te thoni: Mos na ngatero tashti, e le tek mendimet e tua jo te zgjuara!!! Keni te drejte, po vazhdoj: P.sh. ne vend qe te bej dicka "worthy"me perfitim, (sic thone amerikanet e natyralizuar) rri e shkruaj ne alb-club. Nje shoqja ime me thote: Pse merresh me gjepura? Ju mund te thoni se ka te drejte. E besoj. Per mendimin tim kotesia eshte fusha me e pafundme e shpirtit njerezor. Te endesh neper te, do te thote se kerkon dicka, ose do ti sherbesh nje ceshtjeje apo dikujt. E pra ta marre e mira, ky eshte REZONIM, rezonim njerezor. E une s'mund ta bej kaq mire me kombesi te tjera, vecse me JU. Shqiptaret. Nuk eshte ky nje privilegj????? Mireulexofshim, Fatosi. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 15:36:05 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:36:05 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic... Message-ID: pershendetje perseri, eshte evidente qe me interesoka kjo puna e menyres se te shprehurit edhe bie ne terma me albanen. thjeshtezimi i gjuhes eshte i pranueshem deri ne ate pike ku nuk cenon nxjerrjen e konkluzionit e sidomos kur per target group kemi audiencen qe nuk eshte aq e mireinformuar. partiality ne informacion ne keto raste konsiderohet po aq joetik sa edhe shtremberimi i informacionit. >> Une u mundova te jepja disa shembuj nga nje model shume me > > intensiv i studiuar sic eshte drosophila, ku shume gjene duket te cojne ne > > homoseksualitet. Por asnje nga keto gjene nuk eshte pergjegjese direkt > > per > > Me sa kuptoj une, drozofila eshte model i papershtatshem per krahasime e per > njohjen me seksualitetin njerezor. Studimet e drozofiles ndihmojne fare pak > ose aspak. Se c'ishin ca franceze qe kishin shkruar per kete pune, > porse crregullimet ne prodhimin e feromoneve ose ne molekulat e kitines > tek drozofila nuk kane asnje dukuri homologe ne njerezit. Seksualiteti i > njerezve eshte shume larg koopulimit mekanik te drozofiles. mesa jo thjesht kuptoj por edhe njoh une, modelet gjenetike te perdorura ne eksperimentim duhet te plotesojne kushte te caktuara qe te jene te pershtatesheme. pak me shume besim ne zgjedhjet e atyre mendjendriturve per te cilet duartroket 100o here Bravo!!! From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 15:23:06 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:23:06 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] roli i gjenetikes ne semundje vs variante te normes Message-ID: <17.73abaa3.2683c19a@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/00 9:42:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu writes: > >>> Derisa gjenetistet te na mbushin mendjen se kemi te bejme vertet me nje > >>> problem gjenetik, homoseksualiteti mbetet nje crregullim psikologjik. > > > > hehe, dallimi mes leaders and followers. > > he-he, dallimi midis leaders e followers; rrofsh, se po me ben te qesh me > zor; > > > ca kane nevoje qe informacioni te serviret ne medium konvencional ne > menyre > > qe te te bejne vend ne kokat e tyre per kontribute te dhene nga njerez > > unconvencionale. > > Une per vete me duket se jam i informuar per keto pune (gjenetike, biokimi, > fiziologji, patologji, etj). C'eshte me e rendesishmja, jam familiar me > sistemet informatike te specializuara aq sa te mund ta lokalizoj > informacionin qe me duhet brenda 5 minutash. e kisha fjalen qe si gjithnje ne shkence ka situata e tema te cilat kohe me pare se hipoteza te vertetohet e pranohet quhen lajthitje dhe shume njohes te mire te fushave jo gjithnje jane mbeshtetes te ideve te reja e ndodh te perdorin shprehje te tipit " derisa te na mbushin mendjen gjeneticienet " . kjo nuk deshmon per mungese profesionalizmi apo njohje te mire te fushes, ndonjehere eshte thjesht ceshtje shpirti eksperimentues e mendjeje te lire e unconventionale .. ndoshta edhe nje thes me para qofte per te shpenezuar kohe duke investiguar " lajthitjet" qofte per te ngrene buke ne rast se qellon te jene " politically incorrect". > Tani mbase ka ca ketu ne liste qe nuk jane thjesht "followers", po ata > faktikisht i shpikin vete ato qe une i lexoj tek Nature, Lancet, etj. > Njerezve te tille une i heq kapelen, i nderoj, dhe i them "bravo". Bravo > 1000 here. bravo dhe nga une!!!! > > edhe kush ka kuriozitet ne fushen per te cilen poflasim ia thone emrin > > klasifikimi DSM-IV qe liston te gjitha crregullimet dhe semundjet PSIKIKE > ( > > jo psikologjike) nga i cili homoseksualizmi ka dale me kohe dhe nuk > > konsiderohet tashme crregullim i orientimit seksual por thjesht eshte nje > > zgjedhje dhe lifestyle. > > Vertet qe nuk konsiderohet me si 'crregullim', por qendrimi zyrtar i APA > eshte qe "homoseksualiteti eshte i lindur, jo dicka qe mund te zgjidhet me > vetedije". Ne per kete pune po diskutonim. (a eshte keshtu?, pse eshte keshtu? > , etj.) "Crregullim" apo jo kishte pak rendesi ne ate moment. ah, per mua ka rendesi nese e quajme cregullim apo jo, pasi etiketimi i asaj pjese te shoqerise qe ka orientim te ndryshem seksual nga imi dhe yti nuk ka pse te mbarte emrin e gabuar nderkohe qe pasojat ne mireqenien sociale te ketij grupi preken ne menyre te konsiderusheme nese ne deshtojme te perdorim termin e duhur. dhe nese marrim persiper te studiojme e argumentojme per nje tem te caktuar duhet se pari ta definojme. ca si larg definacioni i crregullimit me lifestyle apo qofte edhe variacion i normes. > > Per audiencen e listes: DSM eshte nje liber i madh me kritere per diagnozen > e semundjeve nervore. Per te vene diagnozen e nje problemi, (uh. . . ne > njerin nga 5 akset) psikologu numeron simptomat dhe pastaj lexon ne fund ku > thote "ne qofte se pacienti ka 5 nga 8 simptomat e rreshtuara me siper, > atehere pacienti e ka filan semundje". > DSM eshte rishikuar disa here, dhe pasi 25 vjet me pare APA ra ne konsesus > se homoseksualet nuk ishin te semure, DSM e ka hequr h > omoseksualitetin nga listat e semundjeve. DSM-IV eshte "politically correct" > si dhe pjesa tjeter e shoqerise amerikane. ja qe dalim tek termat perseri qe nuk qenkan aq te parendesishem. semundjet dhe crregullimet jane dy kaegori te ndryshme. jo cdo crregullim eshte semundje. homoseksualizmi nuk ka qene konsideruar ndonjehere semundje, por crregullim i orientimit seksual. dhe kjo perseri mund te mos kete rendesi per albin qe gezon shendet e rregullesi te plote po ka per ata qe jane te prekur dhe shpresojne te gjejne ndihme nga ne qe paskemi marre persiper te studiojme e paguhemi per ta ofruar kete ndihme. edhe behet fjale per psikiatrine edhe njehere jo per neurologjine. ai libri per te cilin behet fjale ka karkuar shume mund qe te hartohet edhe pervec aresyeve te hamendesuara lidhur me rishikimin e informacionit ne te , ka eshe aresye te natyres " shkenca dhe njohurite e shoqerise njerezore edhe ne fushen e mjekesise evolojne" dhe si gjithe referencat e tjera kane nevoje tu nenshtrohen proceseve qe sigurojne saktesi dhe vertetesi me aq sa na e lejojne njohurite as of NOW e jo para 100 shekujsh. From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 15:01:21 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:01:21 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] ... and my heart goes boom ... Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/00 9:10:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, albana at zool.unizh.ch writes: > sigurisht qe ke te drejte ne shume nga ato qe thuhet, por duhet ta > shohesh te gjithen nen kendeveshtrimin se si i jepet nje publiku qe > nuk e ka idene , apo ka ide fare siperfaqesore mbi nje teme kaq te > komplikuar, nje mundesi per ta kuptuar ate dhe nje mundesi per te > hyre ne muhabet. Une jam fare e vetedijshme per te gjitha > thjeshtezimet, rrumbullakimet qe kam bere, etj, sepse i kam bere duke > pyetur veten se sa i kupton ai tjetri ato qe them une. Ne rast se ti > do te diskutosh me saktesi shkencore, te lutem, hajde per nje vizite > private dhe i shoshitim keto rafinesa dhe ju veme dukurive dhe > fenomeneve edhe emrat e tyre teknike. Mua me duket qe per > kompleksitetin e temes nuk i kam rene shume ne qafe saktesise > shkencore. Ajo qe une nuk e di eshte se sa e kuptuan apo sa u > argetuan ata qe e ndoqen kete diskutim. meqe une mund te flas vetem per vete them se jo vetem u argetova me mesazhin por edhe me erdhi mire qe ne vend te debateve persa i perket financave te albklub lexova nje mesazh qe qellon te jete ne fushen time te interesit. persa i perket saktesise shkencore mendoj qe informacioni origjinal i paraqitur ishte mjaftueshmerisht shkencor dhe i detajuar per te thene qe nje sugjerim i natyres " le te jemi me te hapur dhe perfshires ne terma" te jete i pranueshem. nuk pretendoj qe e gjithe lista te jete e perfshire ne shkence sa te preokupohet domosdoshmerisht me te gjitha shkrimet e ne gjithcka qe thuhet. egoja ime profesionale zakonisht mbetet ne qarqet profesionale dhe edhe njehere rafinesat ishin jo me te komplikuara se mesazhi origjinal i paraqitur. Ndaj ne ate visiten private nuk kemi nevoje te citojme referenca e autore them une, por mund te diskutojme per kete chicken curry, thai chicken apo cdo variant tjeter interesant te gatimit te pules. ju befte mire From kbejko at hotmail.com Thu Jun 22 14:51:13 2000 From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:51:13 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Tales from the INS crypt Message-ID: <20000622185113.78783.qmail@hotmail.com> Taken from todays Wall St. JournalJune 22, 2000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Undocumented Students Are Guaranteed K-12 by Law, But College Isn't So Easy By DANIEL GOLDEN Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL BARNSTABLE, Mass. -- Monique Silva's tangled odyssey through the American education system began one day in 1988, when she showed up at an elementary school in this Cape Cod resort. She was a cherubic eight-year-old from Brazil, deaf and unable to communicate in any language. As she learned sign language and began to read and write in English, she blossomed into a stellar student and captain of her high-school track team. In 1999, she was accepted at Gallaudet University in Washington, D.C. But Ms. Silva never enrolled. Instead, in a sweltering warehouse, she presses 65 shirts an hour for $6.50 -- ten cents a shirt. A language barrier divides her from her Brazilian co-workers. They don't know English or sign language; she knows no Portuguese. When the boss has something to tell her, he scribbles a brief note. Asked how she endures the monotony, the 20-year-old hangs another wrinkled shirt by its sleeves on the machine press, then writes in a neat hand, "Sometimes I stop working and start daydreaming about college." Ms. Silva is unlikely to achieve that dream for one reason: although she emigrated to this country 12 years ago, she doesn't have a green card. And for undocumented immigrant students -- many of whom have spent nearly their entire lives here -- coming to America can both unlock their potential and prevent them from fulfilling it. The students are entitled by law to a subsidized education through high school. If they do well enough to get into college, though, they are caught in a financial vise: Ineligible for federal aid, they are also charged nonresident or international tuition rates -- generally double or triple the standard tab. "My heart goes out to these kids who were brought here by their parents surreptitiously," says University of Houston Prof. Michael Olivas. "They really are in no man's land." Since 1990, the undocumented proportion of the nation's foreign-born population has increased from one-eighth to one-fifth. Of the estimated six million undocumented immigrants, about 1.5 million are children under 18. About 50,000 graduate from U.S. high schools each year. Under a 1982 Supreme Court decision, undocumented children can attend public elementary and secondary schools for free and enjoy equal access to services. In that ruling, the court struck down a Texas statute authorizing public schools to turn away undocumented children or to charge them nonresident tuition. In Ms. Silva's case, she was provided with interpreters in the Barnstable schools. Then the school system and the Massachusetts Department of Education split her $40,000 a year tuition at the private American School for the Deaf in West Hartford, Conn. But the aid stops there. The 1965 Higher Education Act, which spawned federal financial aid, limited it to citizens, permanent residents, refugees and those granted asylum. Ever since, undocumented immigrants have been denied student loans when they reach the college level. Unless they move to one of the six states where they can establish residency, they also must pay higher out-of-state tuition at public universities -- and out-of-district fees at community colleges. Ms. Silva is even more constrained in her options. Gallaudet, which is private but federally supported, is the country's only liberal-arts university for the deaf. The school would charge Ms. Silva the international-student rate of $25,480 -- double its tuition for domestic students. No law bars the undocumented from receiving private aid. But most colleges see little benefit and high risk in aiding undocumented students. Uncertain of the legal ramifications and wary of antagonizing federal officials, colleges are also reluctant to allocate scarce scholarship dollars to applicants who may never be able to work legally or participate openly in U.S. society. The last amnesty program for the undocumented expired in 1989. But before 1996, a student like Monique who had been in the U.S. for seven years, with demonstrable good character and hardship, could still have qualified for a green card at a judge's discretion. The exemption was then restricted after immigration foes complained it was being overused. Now, Ms. Silva would qualify only if her situation caused hardship to a spouse, parent or child who is a permanent resident. "I helped Monique get her sights set on college," says Susan Anarino, a teacher and Ms. Silva's mentor. "Now it's like, 'Just kidding!' She's the girl without a country. America has created this unique cultural specimen. Don't we have a responsibility to continue to help her grow?" Are these students embodiments of the American dream or gate-crashers? Advocates of tougher immigration enforcement question whether the government should be in the business of funding their higher education. "By the time these students get to college, they're adults. If we start providing taxpayer funding beyond K-12, where do we draw the line? Postgraduate studies? Residencies?" asks Daniel Stein, executive director of the Washington-based Federation for American Immigration Reform. "At some point, you throw up your hands and say, 'Why do we have immigration laws at all?" Even students who qualify for permanent residency often have to delay college for years while papers are processed. As the son of a permanent resident, Adan Carranza, a Mexican immigrant and the valedictorian this year at a Houston high school, applied for a green card six years ago -- but never received it. The U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service told the family it has no record of the filing. Adan reapplied this year, but faces a seven-year backlog and possible deportation. After his case was publicized in the Houston Chronicle, Texas Southern University in Houston awarded him a scholarship from privately donated funds. Generally, high schools don't even know whether a student has a green card. Still, undocumented seniors often turn to guidance counselors for help. One undocumented immigrant from British Guyana, who topped her class at her Boston high school, is struggling to scrape together tuition for a technical college she plans to attend next fall. The guidance office steered her to several private scholarships that don't ask about immigration status. The valedictorian, who requested anonymity because she fears deportation, also intends to save money by commuting to campus, while her blue-collar parents hope to find second jobs. The Cultural Divide Ms. Silva lives with her mother and sister in a $700-a-month apartment in a faded duplex. College dreams linger in her room, from the Gallaudet stationery pad to her bedtime reading: "College and Career Programs for Deaf Students," "A Dictionary of American Idioms," and "Chicken Soup for the College Soul." Her high-school graduation gown hangs on the wall. The room is an American island surrounded by Brazilian culture. While she watches "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" on television or e-mails former classmates now in college, her mother and sister are glued to Brazilian news programs via satellite or Portuguese-language magazines in the living room. Monique's sister, Camille Silva, and her mother, Zelia Ottoni, patronize Brazilian coffee shops, groceries and video stores. Every weeknight, Camille worships at a Brazilian evangelical church. But Monique prefers going to the mall or eating a wrap at the Lunch Box on Main Street with American friends. "She's American," says Camille Silva, 25, who came to the U.S. in 1994 and works as a home health aide. "She doesn't know anything about Brazil." Mrs. Ottoni, 62, doesn't know English or sign language. One afternoon, in their living room, Ms. Silva tells her story through an interpreter. She signs with vivid gestures reinforced by smiles, pouts and noises of disgust. When her mother interrupts, she shushes her with a raised arm. "Is my daughter happy?" Ms. Ottoni asks timidly. "Yes," the interpreter says. "Thank you, God," Mrs. Ottoni says, sighing. "My life is Monique." Monique Silva hasn't seen her father, Ernani Silva, since he moved to Florida in 1992. (He returned to Brazil two years later.) When he calls, her mother sometimes hands her the phone. Her father shouts, "I love you." "My hopes for Monique are study, study and study," Mr. Silva, 69, recently wrote from Brazil. "I would like she spend her life in United States, especially if we get college and green card for her." As a child in the city of Belo Horizonte, in the state of Minas Gerais, Monique was full of curiosity. She drew pictures to ask questions. A hearing aid proved useless. She was sent to a public school, where the teachers didn't know sign language. As busywork, they made her copy her name and the alphabet day after day. But word was sweeping Minas Gerais of plentiful jobs in Cape Cod's hotels and restaurants. Mr. Silva, who had fallen on hard times as a buyer and seller of beef cattle, migrated in 1986 to the area, where he had relatives. He worked as a dishwasher and landscaper. Long Overstayed Monique and her mother followed two years later. Since no employers were recruiting them, and no U.S. citizens or permanent residents were in their immediate family, the Silvas could enter the country only on six-month tourist visas, which they have long overstayed. Monique's immigration status made no difference to the Barnstable schools. Mrs. Anarino, a kindergarten and special-education teacher, tried for hours to elicit a response from the girl. Finally exasperated, Mrs. Anarino crumpled up a sheet of paper and threw it in a wastebasket -- making the sign for "trash." To the teacher's surprise, Monique beamed, grasping the connection between object and gesture. She signed back, "Trash." Then she ran down the hall, dragging Mrs. Anarino by the hand and emitting loud, guttural sounds of joy as she pointed at everything from the nurse's office to a painted cow jumping over a moon, demanding their signs. Soon Mrs. Anarino became Monique's godmother. They spent every Sunday together, first in church, where Mrs. Anarino would translate the sermon into sign language, then often going to the beach. Playing in the sand one afternoon, Monique began shivering with fear and signing, "Ghosts, ghosts." The fog was rolling in -- and she had no idea what fog was. At Mrs. Anarino's urging, Monique was moved into a class with hearing students in fourth grade in 1990. Two years later, Monique's mother naively asked the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service for advice on how to straighten out the family's status. The INS moved to deport the family. After Barnstable school officials intervened, praising Monique's academic promise and warning she would sink into "extreme depression" if forced to return to Brazil, an administrative judge gave the family until June 30, 1993, to leave voluntarily, which they didn't do. The deportation order then took effect, but was never executed. Mrs. Anarino persuaded Barnstable officials to enroll Monique in eighth grade at the American School for the Deaf, a K-12 private school where American sign language was developed. About 40% of its graduates go to college. Half of the students commute; half reside in dorms during the week and go home on weekends, as Monique did. At the school, Monique quickly displayed a talent for art, winning a national poster-design contest for the deaf. Her paintings adorn several campus buildings. One canvas, finished a week before her graduation in June 1999, envisions that ceremony on the school's front lawn. Amid flowers, balloons and butterflies, three girls toss their tassled caps in the air. One of the girls, wearing jeans under her purple gown and signing "I love you" at the audience, resembles Monique. A Late Start When she enrolled, Monique's sign-language skills lagged behind other students, reflecting her late start. Most of her teachers expected that she would attend community college. Monique had other ideas. At the end of her sophomore year in 1997, she asked school psychologist Billie McNealey how to improve her vocabulary to get into Gallaudet. The psychologist encouraged her to read more. "I never saw her after that without a book in her hand," says Dr. McNealey. "You can't let a child with so much potential and so much motivation fall through the cracks." >From May 1997 to January 1999, Monique's reading comprehension on the Stanford Achievement Test increased from fourth-grade to seventh-grade level, higher than 80% of deaf students. Her math leaped from just under fifth-grade to 10th-grade equivalency -- the 84th percentile. Yet she was having difficulty following class discussions. Her teachers soon realized that she was unaware of sign-language comments by students outside her direct line of sight. In June 1998, she was diagnosed with Usher Syndrome, a genetic disorder characterized by deafness, tunnel vision and, eventually, blindness. Monique was devastated -- and even more determined to make it to Gallaudet, which offers support services for students with the syndrome. A big-sister program paid her way to Washington for an interview. Danny Lacey, Gallaudet's admissions counselor, greeted her with the news: She was in. "When I reviewed her application file last year," Mr. Lacey says, "I was pleased to see how much progress she had made. If she is a student at Gallaudet, her reading level will skyrocket." But Monique's immigration status was catching up to her. For months, her French class had been raising money for a trip to Paris. She collected $200 by baking cookies and washing cars. But when she confided to her teachers that she lacked a green card, they realized that if she left the U.S., she couldn't return. In April 1999, her classmates boarded the plane without her. 'I Had Lost Hope' Last summer, Ms. Silva was filling out the federal student-aid application, when she saw that it required an alien-registration number, which the immigration service uses to identify permanent residents. For the first time, she realized that her immigration status stood in the way of going to college. "I felt I had lost everything. I had lost hope," she says. Once they learned at the end of her junior year that Monique was undocumented, her mentors at the American School for the Deaf had begun consulting immigration lawyers about her case. The outlook was bleak. Then the school arranged for Monique to win four private scholarships totaling nearly $1,500. Those barely dented Gallaudet's tuition. Under 1992 amendments to the Education of the Deaf Act, all Gallaudet students who aren't citizens or permanent residents must be categorized as foreign students -- with a 100% tuition surcharge. Ordinarily, according to Mr. Lacey, Gallaudet doesn't provide any aid at all for international students in their freshman year because they must be self-supporting to qualify for student visas in the first place. But the university draws from a small pool of funding to offer $3,000 per semester to selected foreign students. The school did award Ms. Silva that aid, hoping, Mr. Lacey says, that she could supplement it from other sources. But that still left her $18,000 short. In Barnstable, Mrs. Anarino pitched for donations everywhere from Brazilian churches to the Kiwanis Club, to no avail. Last August, as seven of her 33 American School of the Deaf classmates entered Gallaudet, Ms. Silva began looking for work. Dozens of employers spurned the undocumented deaf girl before she landed the laundry job this spring. Although she is in the country and working illegally, taxes are deducted from her paycheck. She is saving her pay for college -- if not Gallaudet, which deferred her acceptance for a year, then a community college. But a community college would charge her extra, out-of-district tuition, and wouldn't have adequate services for her disability. "I feel stuck," she says. "I've always wanted to be a professional, a teacher. I would dearly love to teach deaf children. I don't want a menial job." ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From Era18 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 16:03:03 2000 From: Era18 at aol.com (Era18 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:03:03 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] My two cents on "life tragedies" Message-ID: <24.6b4954c.2683caf7@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/00 1:28:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Admir Bezhani writes (to Ardi Deda) : << Were you working as an intern in a Nut House or a Retirement home that all of a sudden you come up with a Hitlerian stand on people's tragedies? How can you be so indifferent to life tragedies like uncurable sicknesses, death etc. >> Hm...Life tragedies...I would have to object to the abuse of the word "tragedy". Every time some guy stops breathing is called a "tragedy". The word "tragedy" has totally been devalued. You can't call every death a "tragedy" and expect the word to mean anything. A tragedy is a literary work in which the main character comes to ruin as a consequence of a moral weakness or a fatal flaw. For example a multiple death doesn't automatically qualifies as a tragedy. If a guy shots his wife dead, along with the Domino's pizza guy who was sleeping with her, and then blows his brains out, doesn't mean that a tragedy has occurred. But when you see a fat bastard on the street with his belly hanging out, walking with a poor woman with bruises and broken teeth and you know that he has beaten her up the night before and that he is going to make her sleep with him at night, that YES, that is a tragedy. I think that all this is media's fault. We are fed a large ration of other people's troubles ( ironically called "tragedies"), that are intentionally or unintentionally designed to keep our minds off our own real problems, the ones that each and everyone of us has. They make us sit around feeling sorry for every sick, injured, dead person that they can dig up and we find ourselves having less and less time to think about how screwed up our own life really is. I guess the media is pretty much aware of that feeling of comfort that we all have when we know that no matter how bad our life is, there is always someone else whose life is worse. So if you are choking to death with a fish bone stuck in your throat, it definetely feels good at that moment knowing that somebody else has tumorr in his groin.So if we are in the mood to do some logical deductions here, it comes down to having somebody always who is worse than you, somebody being worse than him, and then somebody else being worse than the third guy. ( I really would like to find that poor guy who is worse than 6 billion people) But as you go down the pile, it will be harder and harder of course to compare if a blind paralyzed maniac is really worse than a fat parkinsonic imbecile . Very tough call indeed... I guess all I am saying, to keep on the subject (which is hard for me as soon as I start writing while at work :) I am not this much opposed to the grief or empathy per se, but the public media grief and the exaggerated or distorted meaning or the word "tragedy" My attitude would be...varja!( in Albanian because the English word would be obscene) I don't have time to feel sorry for every sick person out there. The marketing of empathy has been elevated to a fine art. I am sick of hearing about a one-legged veteran who is iceskating in Canada to help raise money for reasearch on the effectiveness of Paxil suppositories. p.s. If anyone cares, I am really having a bad day today...plus, I have a toothache. :( From ib2 at sunmuw1.MUW.Edu Thu Jun 22 17:27:53 2000 From: ib2 at sunmuw1.MUW.Edu (Iva Bimi Ballard) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:27:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Alb-club] (no subject) Message-ID: Let`s see what you would think if that person waiting for a transplant was a family member?! In a way you are right whoever you are, but consider all the people that die with organs in perfect conditions. If I was one of them, I would not mind to longate someone else`s life by signing a donor card. You are not going to need those organs when you are are dead anyhow, unless you are part of some cult. Anyway... Live long and have faith, Iva -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Study and, in general, the pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all of our lives." Einstein _________________________________________________________________________ From Private1959 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 20:24:34 2000 From: Private1959 at aol.com (Private1959 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:24:34 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] pyetje per gjeneticienet Message-ID: <77.5c9a82b.26840842@aol.com> Duke u perpjekur te kuptoj disa mesazhe shume teknike qe u afishuan ketu ne lidhje me bazat gjenetike te homoseksualitetit, me lindi deshira te them edhe une disa gjera, po si profan qe jam, e vetmja menyre sesi mund te marr pjese ne diskutim eshte duke pyetur. 1. A pranohet se ka nje dallim cilesor esencial midis seksualitetit te mizes se uthulles dhe seksualitetit te njeriut? 2. A eshte e vertete se ndryshe nga c'ndodh me kafshe te tjera ne gjendje te eger, seksualiteti te njeriu nuk eshte domosdoshmerisht i lidhur me riprodhimin, e as u nenshtrohet cikleve sezonale? Dhe nese kjo eshte e vertete, a ka kuptim te nxirren konkluzione per seksualitetin te njeriu ne baze te disa hulumtimeve te gjenomes se mizes se uthulles? 3. A eshte e vertete se pervecse tek njeriu, shtrirja e aktivitetit seksual gjate gjithe vitit vihet re edhe ne shume kafshe shtepiake? Nese eshte keshtu, nuk eshte me e arsyeshme te mendohet se modifikimi i seksualitetit lidhet me nje ndryshim te rrethanave materiale te jeteses? 4. Cfare avantazhi biologjik (evolucionar) sjellin tiparet unike te seksualitetit njerezor? Cilat jane avantazhet biologjike te prishjes se korrelacionit absolut midis aktivitetit seksual dhe riprodhimit? 5. Nese pranohet qe homoseksualiteti ka baze gjenetike, si mund te shpjegohet ky tipar nga pikepamja evolucioniste? Cfare avantazhi i sjell species? 6. Pse eshte ruajtur ne kohe baza gjenetike (e supozuar) e homoseksualitetit tek njeriu? Cfare avantazhi ka sjelle kjo per specien njerezore? Cfare avantazhi biologjik ka nje grup i cili perfshin homoseksuale ne gjirin e vet, nga nje grup qe nuk ka homoseksuale? 7. Cfare kihet parasysh kur flitet per homoseksualitet tek kafshet? A eshte fjala per preferenca seksuale, per zgjidhje te imponuara nga restriksione objektive, apo per mungesa pretendimesh ndaj partnerit te mundshem? 8. Hipotezat per gjenet (ose konfiguracionet gjenike) qe percaktojne homoseksualitetin a perfshijne edhe homoseksualitetin te femrat? Nese jo, si shpjegohet qe i njejti fenomen (preferenca ndaj partnereve seksuale te te njejtit seks) nuk kushtezohet nga e njejta baze gjenike? 9. Nese homoseksualiteti mendohet te kete nje baze gjenetike, atehere pse te mos kete edhe homofobia nje baze gjenetike? D. H. From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Thu Jun 22 19:30:22 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:30:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic... Message-ID: > mesa jo thjesht kuptoj por edhe njoh une, modelet gjenetike te perdorura > ne eksperimentim duhet te plotesojne kushte te caktuara qe te jene te > pershtatesheme. > pak me shume besim ne zgjedhjet e atyre mendjendriturve per te cilet > duartroket 100o here Bravo!!! Adela, une nuk e ve ne dyshim qe drozofila ka bere shume per gjenetiken; po kur vjen puna tek spjegimi i homoseksualitetit, tek blerja e domateve, dhe tek stock market, drozofila thjesht nuk ben per ate pune -- te pakten deri sot nuk e ka treguar veten; po dite ti ndonje fakt qe une s'e di ma thuaj qe edhe une te mesoj ndonje gje te re; Une s'e kam mbaruar filloren dje, dhe jam mesuar te jem skeptik e mos te besoj cdo gje qe shoh te shkruar nga "shkencetaret"; Kam 2 vjet qe frekuentoj nje laborator biologjie molekulare; Lexoj pak a shume rregullisht shtypin profesional. Me thirrje kot me kot per "besim ne ne zgjedhjet e atyre mendjendriturve" as mos m'u drejto fare se s'ka lezet. ____ From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 20:44:12 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:44:12 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] I hate genes! and medical arrogance Message-ID: <14.552529d.26840cdc@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/00 9:41:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DedaArd at aol.com writes: > I really do hate the genes and I am sick of this discussion on the genes...I > think medical science have taken everything too far...My concern has nothing > to do with the "gay genes" at all and let's forget about the ongoing > discussion for a moment. I am just growing kinda sick and tired hearing on > the news that some guy needs a new liver or a new lung to keep going...Why? > What is the point for that guy to keep going? Why is that news? Why do i > need to know about this? Nature used to eliminate the imperfect kids so they > don't live long enough to reproduce their flaws and pass their bad genes to > the next generation. > For me this is just MEDICAL ARROGANCE and it works against nature's plan. > I am sick and tired of hearing about a baby kept alive on a resuscitator > while doctors wait for a kidney to be flown in on a private jet contibuted > by some corporation seeking good publicity because they just killed 6000 people > in Pakistan with a chemical spill. I am tired of this sh** being presented > on the context of real news. Gossip about sick people is not news and I don't > really care about it. This is emotional pandering. > me pelqen fakti qe Ardi shkon pertej permbushjes se kuriozitetit shkencor ne lajmet qe degjon. edhe kurdo qe ardi jeton emotional pandering, i feel for u ardi... por kjo puna e lajmeve shkon me tej sesa lajmet mjekesore. eshte menyra se si e ushtron pushtetin e saj media dhe it's alleys, si e perdorin kohen qe ne blejme per tu informuar per c'ka e si ndodh rreth nesh qe le vend per te diskutuar. une preferoj te degjoj mbi zhvillimet ne shkence vs se ne cilin hotel fjeti Denis Rodman dhe se sa bags me potato chips iu sherbyen ne casino. per mua lajme te tilla jane me shume se emotional pandering, jane insult of my intelligence dhe sheprdorim i kohes dhe mjeteve financiare me te cilat une kontriboj qe te informohem. le pastaj kur qellon ndonje aeroplan qe rrezikon te mos vazhdoje ne kursin e parashikuar dhe emri i vetem qe permendet eshte ai i ndonje aktori qe paguhet sa 100 mjeke bashke, nderkohe qe 120 jete te tjera injorohen edhe qellon qe ne karrigen ngjitur me kete artistin mund te jete duke fluturuar ndonje nga ato mendjet e ndritura qe e sakrifikojne jeten laboratoreve. persa i perket medical arrogance. maredheniet mes mjekut dhe pacientit jane me komplekse dhe te rregulluara sesa e njeh praktika shqiptare dhe shumica e lexuesve te kesaj liste qe ka jetuar pjesen me te madhe te kohes ne shqiperi. dua te them qe ne kete boten e zhvilluar ku transplanti i organeve po kthehet ne procedure rutine, parimet etike baze sigurojne qe marrja e vendimit per cilesine e jetes apo per te jetuar at all eshte e drejte e personit. padyshim me zhvillimet ne shkence njerezit nderhyjne gjithnje e me shume ne kursin natyror te jetes, por si ne cdo aspekt tjeter, sherbimet ofrohen per sa kohe ka kerkese. nuk me duket me vend te fajesojme sherbyesin ( ne kete rast komunitetin mjekesor). ah, mu ftoh kafja .. po shkoj te bej nje tjeter. later From DedaArd at aol.com Thu Jun 22 20:46:50 2000 From: DedaArd at aol.com (DedaArd at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:46:50 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Unusual Masturbation Techniques (Part I) Message-ID: Oven: Preheat the oven to 425 degrees Fahrenheit. Do NOT shake and most importantly DO NOT chop at this point. Heat for 10-15 minutes. Microwave: Heat on high power for 1 1/2 to 2minutes, turning it over once. Let stand for 1 minute. Shake for better results. Fryer: Preheat the oil to 350 degrees Fahrenheit and fry for two minutes. Don't overdo it here to avoid complications from arising. This is thought to be the quick method, widely known as a "quickie" Toss with your favorite marinara cream sauce for better results Now, the best would be dipping it in a youghurt sauce and top with diced celino, Vlora olives, black pepper, finely grated Tirana garlic and at the end you can always wash it off with medlar juice (medlar=nespulla, kishte shume te tilla ne Vlore - shenim i mesazh-shkruesit) The above are guidelines only. Copyright: Maxi Poultry Co. LTD., Laurentides (Quebec) Canada J0R 1C0 From Private1959 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 20:56:30 2000 From: Private1959 at aol.com (Private1959 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:56:30 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Unusual Masturbation Techniques (Part I) Message-ID: <97.71c641a.26840fbe@aol.com> Kids, do not try this at home, please! In a message dated 6/22/00 8:53:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DedaArd at aol.com writes: << Oven: Preheat the oven to 425 degrees Fahrenheit. Do NOT shake and most importantly DO NOT chop at this point. Heat for 10-15 minutes. Microwave: Heat on high power for 1 1/2 to 2minutes, turning it over once. Let stand for 1 minute. Shake for better results. Fryer: Preheat the oil to 350 degrees Fahrenheit and fry for two minutes. Don't overdo it here to avoid complications from arising. This is thought to be the quick method, widely known as a "quickie" Toss with your favorite marinara cream sauce for better results Now, the best would be dipping it in a youghurt sauce and top with diced celino, Vlora olives, black pepper, finely grated Tirana garlic and at the end you can always wash it off with medlar juice (medlar=nespulla, kishte shume te tilla ne Vlore - shenim i mesazh-shkruesit) The above are guidelines only. >> From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 20:57:55 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:57:55 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Are PKU or Tourette's acceptable just because they are genetic... Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/00 5:28:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu writes: > > mesa jo thjesht kuptoj por edhe njoh une, modelet gjenetike te perdorura > > ne eksperimentim duhet te plotesojne kushte te caktuara qe te jene te > > pershtatesheme. > > pak me shume besim ne zgjedhjet e atyre mendjendriturve per te cilet > > duartroket 100o here Bravo!!! > > Adela, > > une nuk e ve ne dyshim qe drozofila ka bere shume per gjenetiken; po kur > vjen puna tek spjegimi i homoseksualitetit, tek blerja e domateve, dhe tek > stock market, drozofila thjesht nuk ben per ate pune -- te pakten deri sot > nuk e ka treguar veten; po dite ti ndonje fakt qe une s'e di ma thuaj qe > edhe une te mesoj ndonje gje te re; > > Une s'e kam mbaruar filloren dje, dhe jam mesuar te jem skeptik e mos te > besoj cdo gje qe shoh te shkruar nga "shkencetaret"; Kam 2 vjet qe > frekuentoj nje laborator biologjie molekulare; Lexoj pak a shume > rregullisht shtypin profesional. Me thirrje kot me kot per "besim ne ne > zgjedhjet e atyre mendjendriturve" as mos m'u drejto fare se s'ka lezet. > > ____ > albi, nuk marr ne shqyrtim kontributin e drozofiles, por esha te them qe respektoj perpjekjen e albanes per te kontribuar informacion dhe mundimin e saj per te parashtruar informacion mbeshtetes. ana teknike e ceshtjes eshte tjeter pune. padyshim Miza e uthulles dhe humans jane larg, e megjithate ato kriteret per te cilat fola lidhur me modelet gjenetike nuk i injorojme dot, s'bejme dot pa to. le te themi qe numri i kromozomeve e ben ca me te lehte studimin, shtojme faktin qe jetegjatesia eshte e atille qe per periudha kohe te favoreshme mund te studiojme disa gjenerata duke mundesuar te studiojme percueshmerine dhe penetrancen e tipareve, dhe statistikisht kemi favorin qe numri i offspring eshte mjaftueshmerisht i madh per ta mbajtur gabimin ne perpunimin e te dhenave brenda kufijve te pranueshem per ta quajtur konkluzionin reliable. le pastaj te mendosh qe deri me sot nuk ka ndonje konvente nderkombetare qe merr ne mbrojte te drejtat e drosofiles hence ne nuk rrezikojme te gjendemi ne defendant's stand before the judge and sideways from the jury ( i hate the idea that the jury members can keep looking at my nose's profile for that long). adela From Adela0320 at aol.com Thu Jun 22 22:59:32 2000 From: Adela0320 at aol.com (Adela0320 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:59:32 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] fjelet e huazuara nga anglishtja Message-ID: <6.7b554b7.26842c94@aol.com> eh, nje miku im me dashamiresi me vuri ne dukje qe hera heres aty ketu, futet si pyke anglishtja ne shkrimet e mia. mesa duket vitet ne mergim kane bere te tyren. po ja me thoni ju o miq, cila do te ishte ekuivalentja e "alley " ne shqip. Mesa mbaj mend une , ne kurriz te ndertesave shqipetare nuk para ka patur " alley". Shume shume kishte vendstrehime edhe midis tyre dhe nderteses Kalami ( nje burre i urte dhe punetor sipas vleresimeve te fqinjeve) me duart e tij kish ngritur nje bace e cila pervec prodhimtarise se konsiderueshme per siperfaqen qe zinte, sillte edhe miza e mushkonja plot ne stinet e ngrohta. Le pastaj kur Pjetri ( fqinji perkundruall Kalamit) mendoi te shtonte edhe vezet e fresketa ne menune e mengjesit. Na u desh te perballonim jo vetem bashkesine e pulave por edhe ate kendesin i cili na zgjonte qe pa gdhire, te cilin im vella beri ne plan ta shponte qe pertej gardhit me nje shtize celiku te cilen daja e ia kish siguruar mamase me ato menyrat e njohura nen dore, pasi shtizat komerciale qene shume te buta thosh mamaja ime. kishe edhe nj kumbull shahine aty pas pallatit. ate vit qe shpertheu Chermobili e patem pisk... im ate nuk na la te kepusnim kumbullat e pabera duke argumentuar se kish shume rrezatim.. bente edhe ca kalkulime te 1/2 jetes radioaktive te elementeve edhe fytyra e tij celej sa here qe i binte qe doza e rrezatimit te qe pergjysmuar apo cerekfishuar. po ne s'patem fat kumbullat i kishin ngrene femijet e tjere te lagjes deri sa erdhi ajo dite. eh, anglishtja. ja me thoni ju o miq, cila eshte ekuivalentja e "alley"? From bakigal at hotmail.com Thu Jun 22 23:55:39 2000 From: bakigal at hotmail.com (Genc Baki) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:55:39 PDT Subject: [Alb-club] Une do te doja... Message-ID: <20000623035539.65068.qmail@hotmail.com> Une do te doja disa informacione mbi lojen "shkopa-cingli". Me ka marre malli sa s'ka ku te shkoje. Ketu perdorim shkopat per te ngrene por mua nuk me hyjne ne sy se nuk mund ti fluturoj dot ke orizi i tjetrit. Informacioni qe kam per kete loje eshte shume i kufizuar. Di vetem qe luhet me dy shkopa, nga nje grup cunash heteroseksuale, gocat luajne vec dhe nje shkop eshte sa 0.345 e gjatesise se shkopit tjeter. Do te me interesonin informata te natyres si kur eshte luajtur per here te pare kjo loje, si quhej ne ilirisht, cfare rregullash ndiqeshin ne kohen e Skqenderbeut, me c'emer e ka rregjistruar Kostandin Kristoforidhi ne veprat e tij, kur eshte zhvilluar loja e pare zyrtare, midis kujt e sa ka qene rrezultati, a do te propozohet kjo loje nga Shqiperia per tu perfshire ne lojrat olimpike kur keto te fundit te zhvillohen ne Shqiperi, a ka ndermend Alb-Clubi te organizoje ndonje loje midis ekipit te tij dhe atij te Bronx-it e te tjera te dhena si keto. Do ti isha mirenjohes kujt do te sillte informata edhe per lojra te tjera te luajtura ne Shqiperi qe nuk e kane patur fatin te luhen ne arenen nderkombetare sepse te huajt nuk jane aq te zote sa te fitojne kunder nje Shqiptari. Po permend ca lojra p.sh si botash, me kopaca, me zara, biz, e-ka-kush-e-ka, roza-rozina, fluturon-fluturon, bjeri ziles se komshiut dhe mbathja, lag me zorre nga ballkoni, mos shkel puseten, therrit nga prapa "O hunderr" e tjera e te tjera lojra te mrekullueshme si keto. Sigurisht jane te mirepritur ata qe do te donin te shpjegonin se si perfshihet shpirti i shqiptarit ne keto lojra, perpjekjet titanike per ti shpetuar keto thesare kulturore nga asimilimi serbo-greko-ortodokso-komunist, heronjte e rene per keto lojra e te dhena te tjera te kesaj natyre. Uroj me gjithe zemer qe tani e tutje, nen kujdesin e partise, keto lojra te luhen haptazi dhe ne ambjente e me mjete moderne ku te gezoje fukaraja. Shendet, qellofshi e fitofshi, Genci. PS: Kur thuhet vetem 50 rrjeshta per mesazh kjo eshte me te rejat? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From bakigal at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 05:24:07 2000 From: bakigal at hotmail.com (Genc Baki) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 02:24:07 PDT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendoni? Message-ID: <20000623092407.32849.qmail@hotmail.com> Pershendetje te gjitheve. Dje me erdhi motra nga Tirana. Do kaloje ca kohe ketu ne Japoni. Nuk me kishte ndodhur me pare te prisja dike te familjes ne aeroport por pashe se ishte stresuese. Me syte ngulur tek tabela elektronike e fluturimeve me zemer te ngrire shikoja se si numrat ne kutite e ores se mberritjes se avionit nderroheshin vazhdimisht duke treguar se avioni po vonohej. Hej dreqi ta haje. Pse vetem ne na vonohen avionet? Dhe pse vonohet? C'po ndodh atje siper? Mos kane rene gje maskat e oksigjenit para hundeve atyre ne aeroplan? Nejse. Aeroplani me ne fund u ul. 30' me vonese. Kush po pyet ne fund te fundit, deri sa erdhi. Tani po prisja qe motra te vuloste pashaporten, te merrte valixhen dhe te dilte tek dalja e udhetareve. Prit e prit e s'ka. Sa gjate prita? Nuk po e kuptoja por kur pashe oren kishte kaluar me shume se 30' qe kur avioni kishte mberritur. E po kjo tani. I kisha dhene motres numrin tim te celularit per te me marre ne telefon po te kishte ndonje problem kur te mberrinte por fillova te dyshoj ne se asaj do ti jepej mundesia te me telefononte. Kur ne kete moment bie celulari im. Shoh numrin se nga vinte telefonata dhe ekrani i celularit tregon nje numer celulari ne Tokjo. Po kjo c'te jete? Hap telefonin kur ne anen tjeter degjoj zerin e motres: "Genc c'kemi? Duket se do te vonohem pak se ka shume, shume njerez." "Mire" i them "Po te pres. Telefonin e kujt po perdor" e pyes. "Po perdor telefonin e nje vajze ketu qe ma dha pasi i thashe qe ti mund te beheshe merak." E po mire. Te pakten u qetesova pak sepse ajo do te dilte se shpejti. Me ne fund doli, u takuam pas disa vitesh e te tjera e te tjera qe shoqerojne takimin e motres e vellait qe jane nga Shqiperia ne nje vend te huaj. Ulemi diku per nje kafe para se ti hypim trenit. Pasi mbaruan pyetjet e para e pyes se kush ishte ajo qe e ndihmoi me telefonin. Pa te keq me pergjigjet "Nje Jugosllave." "Jugosllave" i them une i habitur. "Me mua tallesh, c'do te thuash me kete "Jugosllave"? Mos e ke fjalen gje per Serbe?" "Nuk e di" me thote. "Kur e pyeta se nga je mu pergjigj "Jam Jugosllave" keshtu qe une nuk e ngava me tej". Nejse thashe me vete, kushdo qe te jete duhet falenderuar. Numri i telefonit te saj kishte mbetur ne memorjen e telfonit tim qe nga momenti kur motra me mori duke perdorur ate telefon. Pse shpresoj qe ajo te mos jete serbe? Budallalleqe. Edhe po qe serbe cfare? Nuk e di. Te nesermen i bie telefonit per te folur me Majen(emer i bukur), keshtu quhej ajo vajza. I bie numrit dhe nje ze vajze pergjigjet. I them "Miredita. A mund te flas pak me Znj.Majen?" "Une jam" vjen pergjigja. "Une quhem Genci" i them "dhe jam vellai i Gentjanes, asaj shqiptares qe takuat dje ne avion." "Oh, po" thote ajo "si jeni?" "Jam mire" i them. "Ju morra qe tiu falenderoj per diten e djeshme." "Oh, s'ka perse" thote ajo "Qe kenaqesia ime" Pasi folem pak marr guximin dhe e pyes "A mund tiu pyes se nga jeni?" "Pse nuk iu tha motra se nga jam?" vjen pergjigja pak e ftohte. "Motra me tha qe jeni nga Jugosllavia por nqs do kishte mundesi do te doja nga c'pjese e Jugosllavise?" "Une jam serbe, nga Beogradi" vjen pergjigja si teh akulli. E prisha fare. E dh... I them edhe nje here faleminderit dhe nje "Take care" dhe e mbyll telefonin. Dreqi ta haje. Pse na ndjekin hijet nga prapa. Pse gjykojme njerezit se nga jane? E pastaj se ishte serbe? Po le te ishte edhe Greke, Maqedonase a ku di une. Ishte njeri dhe ndihmoi nje njeri. A do te ndihmoja une nje serb ne te njejtat rrethana? Nuk e di por them se PO! Ndoshta u zgjata por kjo ishte ajo qe doja tiu tregoja sot .Po deshet te thoni dicka rreth kesaj ndodhie jeni te mirepritur. Genci. PS: Dikush para dy ditesh ne liste ngriti pretendimin se lufta duhet zhvilluar sipas rregullave. Po te zbatoheshin rregullat nuk do te kishte lufte. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From erjonsinani at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 23 07:11:47 2000 From: erjonsinani at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?erjon=20sinani?=) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:11:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alb-club] mirdita Message-ID: <20000623111147.28644.qmail@web3906.mail.yahoo.com> Jam nje dial qe ndodhem ne Londer dhe po dergoj nje letter tek alb- club per te me derguar andresen Intervista n.q.s eshte e mundur . Ju faliminderit. Erjoni ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Fri Jun 23 06:55:32 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 03:55:32 -0700 Subject: [Alb-club] pyetje per gjeneticienet Message-ID: <000901bfdd01$8ee5e4c0$dbacf880@xyz.uic.edu> Gjysma e pyetjeve m'u duken pyetje retorike, po nejse :) Une po pergjigjem ne 3 te nates, e kush gjen gabime apo i vjne per te qeshur -- lutem mbani parasysh orarin e vone dhe shpejtesin me te cilen do shkruaj; > 1. A pranohet se ka nje dallim cilesor esencial midis seksualitetit te mizes > se uthulles dhe seksualitetit te njeriut? Jo gjithmone. Per ca dallimi eshte thjesht sasior, jo cilesor. > 2. A eshte e vertete se ndryshe nga c'ndodh me kafshe te tjera ne gjendje te > eger, seksualiteti te njeriu nuk eshte domosdoshmerisht i lidhur me > riprodhimin, e as u nenshtrohet cikleve sezonale? Dhe nese kjo eshte e > vertete, a ka kuptim te nxirren konkluzione per seksualitetin te njeriu ne > baze te disa hulumtimeve te gjenomes se mizes se uthulles? Jo vetem per njeriun, po per shumicen e primateve seksi nuk eshte thjesht dukuri riproduktive. Kjo nuk e perjashton mundesine -- me probabilitet kozmik -- qe nje crregullim seksual i drozofiles te jete i ngjashem me te pakten nje nga llojet e homoseksualitetit ne njerezit. Megjithate, (prape pa e perjashtuar mundesine qe ndonje zbulim t'u ktheje mendjen te gjitheve,) sot per sot nuk ka kuptim te nxirren perfundime mbi homoseksualitetin e njerezve nga studimet e drozofiles. > 3. A eshte e vertete se pervecse tek njeriu, shtrirja e aktivitetit seksual > gjate gjithe vitit vihet re edhe ne shume kafshe shtepiake? Nese eshte > keshtu, nuk eshte me e arsyeshme te mendohet se modifikimi i seksualitetit > lidhet me nje ndryshim te rrethanave materiale te jeteses? Nuk e di se si eshte puna me kafshet shtepiake, mbase e marr vesh neser. Per pjesen e dyte te pyetjes, natyrisht, shume teorista te tradites konstruktiviste do thone se homoseksualiteti (si dhe dukuri te tjera) jane rezultat i rrethanave ne te clat ndodhet individi. I gjendur ne nje kohe tjeter e ne nje ambient tjeter individi do manifestonte sjellje te tjera. > 4. Cfare avantazhi biologjik (evolucionar) sjellin tiparet unike te > seksualitetit njerezor? Cilat jane avantazhet biologjike te prishjes se > korrelacionit absolut midis aktivitetit seksual dhe riprodhimit? ?? Pyetje e bukur, po qe une nuk ia di pergjigjen. Spekulimi im eshte se ne rrethanat kur rritja e femijeve ze nje pjese te konsiderueshme te jetes te njerezve, nje lidhje midis prinderve(ne kete rast seksuale joriprodhuese) rrit shanset e zgjatjes te "marteses", dhe pastaj kjo natyrisht shpie ne perkujdesje me te madhe per femijet. > 5. Nese pranohet qe homoseksualiteti ka baze gjenetike, si mund te shpjegohet > ky tipar nga pikepamja evolucioniste? Cfare avantazhi i sjell species? Nese homoseksualiteti do ishte i trashegueshem, seleksioni natyral do duhej te sillte zhdukjen e ngadalshme te homoseksualitetit. Sipas nje perralle qe kam lexuar une, nje avantazh i homoseksualitetit mbase eshte shmangia e konkurences midis vellezerve. Supozohet se sa here qe lind nje femije, ai ekspozohet ndaj niveleve te androgjeneve me te ulura, d.m.th., djali i 5-te ekspozohet ndaj niveleve me te ulta te hormoneve mashkullore gjate zhvillimit dhe kjo e predispozon drejt homoseksualitetit. Duke qene se djali i peste eshte me pak viril se djali i pare, midis tyre konkurenca (per femra) pakesohet. Edhe kjo teori eshte e paprovuar. > 6. Pse eshte ruajtur ne kohe baza gjenetike (e supozuar) e homoseksualitetit > tek njeriu? Cfare avantazhi ka sjelle kjo per specien njerezore? Cfare > avantazhi biologjik ka nje grup i cili perfshin homoseksuale ne gjirin e vet, > nga nje grup qe nuk ka homoseksuale? Nese homoseksualiteti eshte vertet hereditar, atehere baza gjenetike e tij mund te jete ruajtur sepse shumica e homoseksualeve jane pjellore. Kjo nuk duket se perben ndonje lloj avantazhi biologjik. > 7. Cfare kihet parasysh kur flitet per homoseksualitet tek kafshet? A eshte > fjala per preferenca seksuale, per zgjidhje te imponuara nga restriksione > objektive, apo per mungesa pretendimesh ndaj partnerit te mundshem? Tek majmunet, sipas Kaplanit, homoseksualiteti eshte boll i perhapur, dhe nenkuptohen majmuner ne rrethana natyrale (jo ne kafaz). > 8. Hipotezat per gjenet (ose konfiguracionet gjenike) qe percaktojne > homoseksualitetin a perfshijne edhe homoseksualitetin te femrat? Nese jo, si > shpjegohet qe i njejti fenomen (preferenca ndaj partnereve seksuale te te > njejtit seks) nuk kushtezohet nga e njejta baze gjenike? Hipotezat epr homoseksualitetin e meshkujve nuk jane te lidhura me ndonje gjen te vecante. U be njehere zhurme kur dikush ne NCI tha se kishte gjetur nje lidhje midis nje pjese te kromozomit X (Xq28) dhe homoseksualitetit ne meshkuj qe kishin me shume teze sesa daja, dhe qe i kishin keta daja me perqindje te larta homoseksualiteti. Ndaj ketij artikulli pati verejtje, po edhe sikur ta marresh 100% te qene, Xq28 spjegon vetem nje lloj te vecante te homoseksualitetit. Homoseksualiteti mbetet pa gjen. As nuk flitet per ndonje gjen tek femrat. Per homoseksualitetin e femrave, (ashtu si edhe te tjera probleme te femrave), nuk u merakosen shume "shkencetaret". Homoseksualiteti u be problem mjekesor ne shekullin e shkuar, me ca psikiater gjermane ne krye qe supozonin se homoseksualiteti ka baza morfologjike. Keta masnin diametrat e testeve dhe vezhgonin per mbinervim ne rektumin e meshkujve. Pastaj erdhi psikoanaliza me Frojdin qe dukurine "femer" e permend vetem shkarazi. Sipas S. Freud, homoseksualiteti eshte ngecje ne fazen anale te zhvillimit, po kjo nuk e spjegon homoseksualitetin femeror. Me pas, aktivistet gay ngriten zerin dhe e detyruan APA qe ta hiqte homoseksualitetin nga listat e semundjeve. Gjate gjithe kesaj kohe, homoseksualiteti femeror mbeti jashte piktures. Prevalenca e homoseksualitetit ne femra eshte sa gjysma e homoseksualiteti ne meshkuj, dhe duket se faktoret etiologjike jane te ndryshem per homoseksualitetin ne femrat dhe ne meshkujt. > 9. Nese homoseksualiteti mendohet te kete nje baze gjenetike, atehere pse te > mos kete edhe homofobia nje baze gjenetike? Ehe, edhe zgjedhja e domateve zemerkau. Meqe u permend homofobia, ca "shkencetare" te lojtur vajten dhe i lidhen ca tela (tek vendi i keq) njerezve qe ishin homofobe heteroseksuale, dhe atyre qe ishin hetero johomofobe. I moren te dy grupet dhe i vune te shihnin foto porno te cifteve meshkuj-femra dhe pastaj foto te homoseksualeve. Ne fund, gjithnje sipas "shkencetareve" qe kryen studimin, homofobet eksitoheshin me shume se johomofobet nga imazhet homoseksuale. Ky rezultat incidentalisht eshte ne perputhje me teorine e Frojdit, i.e., homofobia eshte reaksion represiv ndaj ndjenjave homoseksuale te pavetedijshme. From albana at zool.unizh.ch Fri Jun 23 05:21:49 2000 From: albana at zool.unizh.ch (Albana Rexhepi) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:21:49 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] Pyetje per gjeneticistet In-Reply-To: <200006230401.e5N41TQ06847@alb-net.com> References: <200006230401.e5N41TQ06847@alb-net.com> Message-ID: > Pershendetje DH, > >1. A pranohet se ka nje dallim cilesor esencial midis seksualitetit te mizes >se uthulles dhe seksualitetit te njeriut? Kjo eshte gati nje pyetje retorike. Sigurisht qe ka dallime midis dy sistemeve, sikur per asgje tjeter, nje njeri mund te rrefeje per seksualitetin e tij kurse Drozofila jo. Perdorimi i modeleve te tjera animale per te kuptuar fenomene biologjike njerezore lidhet me faktin qe keto modele ndajne nje homologji sekuencore dhe funksionale me molekulat e njeriut. Se dyti, ka shume procese biologjke qe jane te konservuara ne te gjitha filat duke perfshire edhe njeriun. Ky eshte themeli ku mbeshtetet argumentimi i perdorimit te ketyre sistemeve te tjera per kerkime shkencore. Persa i perket sjelljes seksuale de riprodhimit, kjo eshte shume e ndryshme nga njera specie ne tjetren. Ne kete pike natyra duket se ka arritur ndryshueshmerine me te madhe. Cila eshte arsyeja qe evoluconi ka favorizuar nje ndryshueshmeri te tille, ne mund ta diskutojnme ne vazhdimesi e ketij diskutimi. Pavaresisht nga ndryshueshmerite e secilit sistem mbetet i perbashket fakti qe format e heteroseksulitetit dhe homoseksualitetit jane te pranishme ne pothuaj te gjitha sistemet animale. Une nuk mendoj qe shkencetaret kerkojne te thjeshtezojne gjerat dhe te perpiqen qe te shpjegojne homoseksualizmin njerezor me ate animal. Une personalisht mendoj qe interesante ne tere kete histori eshte te kuptohet se perse ekzistojne keto forma te seksualitetit? A ka elemente te perbashket ne te gjitha sistemet qe mund te ndihmojne ne kuptimin e mekanizmave qe cuan ne lindjen e ketyre formave por edhe ne propagimin e tyre, ne mbijetesen e tyre? > >2. A eshte e vertete se ndryshe nga c'ndodh me kafshe te tjera ne gjendje te >eger, seksualiteti te njeriu nuk eshte domosdoshmerisht i lidhur me >riprodhimin, e as u nenshtrohet cikleve sezonale? Seksualiteti i njeriut ishte i lidhur me riprodhimin ne fillimet e historise se tij shoqeroe. Seksualiteti i njeriut nuk eshte me i lidhur me riprodhimin (unless ne shoqeri te vogla qe jetojne akoma ne gjendje te pacivilizuar). Pyetja jote i perket termit "sjellje" dhe kjo sjellje eshte e organizuar ne menyra nga me te ndryshme ne gjithe boten animale, sepse e ndryshme eshte jeta e kafsheve te ndryshme. Ajo qe dua te them eshte qe sjellja eshte shume me plastike dhe e adaptueshme ndaj situatave te pazakonta te lidhura midis te tjerave me klimen, terrenin, se sa nje cascade reaksionesh kimike. >Dhe nese kjo eshte e >vertete, a ka kuptim te nxirren konkluzione per seksualitetin te njeriu ne >baze te disa hulumtimeve te gjenomes se mizes se uthulles? Nuk ka kuptim te nxirren konkluzione persa i perket sjelljes. Por ka kuptim persa i perket aspektit molekular te seksualit. Une mund te te jap ty nje shembull. Eshte nje gjen tek njeriu i quajtur Pax, eshte nje nga gjenet me te studiuar dhe shume i redesishem, duke filluar qe nga formimi i syrit, apo etablimi i axit anterior-posterior te embrionit dhe organeve. Ky gjen ka nje homolog tek drozofila me te cilin ndan nje homologji sekuencore dhe funksionale. Kjo do te thote qe ky homolog, i quajtur paired (prd), ben tek Drsophila te njejtat gjera, merr pjene ne formimin e axit a-p, te syve et. Por te drspophila ky gjen kontrollon midis te tjerave formimin e organeve gjenitale dhe sintezen e feromoneve mashkullore. Sigurisht qe duke u mbeshtetur ne nje te dhene te tille ata qe punojne tek gjitaret perpiqen te studiojne ne se Pax eshte i involvuar ne situata te ngjashme, apo eshte i involvuar ne steriliteti mashkullor. Kjo ehste pak a shume logjika, qe sigurisht nuk ja redukton Pax vlerat vetem ne sistemin drozofiloid, ai mund te bej shume me teper se kaq, ndoshta edhe gjera shume me te komplikuara. >3. A eshte e vertete se pervecse tek njeriu, shtrirja e aktivitetit seksual >gjate gjithe vitit vihet re edhe ne shume kafshe shtepiake? Nese eshte >keshtu, nuk eshte me e arsyeshme te mendohet se modifikimi i seksualitetit >lidhet me nje ndryshim te rrethanave materiale te jeteses? Shih me siper. >4. Cfare avantazhi biologjik (evolucionar) sjellin tiparet unike te >seksualitetit njerezor? Cilat jane avantazhet biologjike te prishjes se >korrelacionit absolut midis aktivitetit seksual dhe riprodhimit? Seksualiteti njerezor ne anen e tij mekanike permban nje katalog elementesh qe jane te gjetshme ne kafshe te ndryshme. Me qe Drozophila duket si me e largeta dhe me abstraktja per shume njerez une po e marr si shembull: tek Drosophila ka nje ritual kopulimi qe ndjek pak a shume me rigorozitet nje linje te tille: 1. mashkulli ndjek femren 2. pastaj begins tapping 3. licking 4. attemption for copulation, mashkulli perpiqet te hipi ne kurrizin e femres 5. Copulation, (zgjat 10-15 minuta). I gjithe ky proces zgjat midis 20-30 minuta. Kjo duket e gjitha komike, dhe duket edhe me komike po ta vezhgosh ne nje video. Por, dua te them qe une nuk di nje element te kopulimit te nje mashkulli me nje femer tek njerezit qe nuk gjendet tek nje X kafshe. Persa i perket evolucionit dhe unikennes se njeriut une do thoja qe ne se ne njerezit jemi unike jemi unike ne ate qe cdo specie eshte: mund te riprodhohemi vetem me specien tone dhe jo me specie te tjera. Evolucioni nuk e ka favorizuar kryqezimin interspecior. Raporti midis nje mashkulli dhe nje femre ne te gjithe boten shtazore, duke eprfshire edhe njeriun, percaktohet nga interesa biologjike te njejta: nje mashkull kerkon te kete sa me shume femije, kurse nje femer kerkon te kete pak dhe te investoje te njejten energji tek secili prej tyre. Nje mashkull dhe nje femer e zgjedhin njeri-tjetrin nepermjet influences se feromoneve apo sjelljeve te tjera qe tek e fundit i japin sinjale njeri-tjetrit mbi"fitness"in e gjeneve te tyre.Ne kete pike interesat e te dyve jane te zgjedhin ate qe ka gjene me fitte dhe qe do beje te mundur qe pasardhesit te mbijetojne ne menyre te sukseshme. Une, personalisht, e quaj kete nje akt ku secili nga lojtaret kerkon makinen me te mire ku mund t'i ngarkoje gjenet e tij per nje trip te larget. >5. Nese pranohet qe homoseksualiteti ka baze gjenetike, si mund te shpjegohet >ky tipar nga pikepamja evolucioniste? Cfare avantazhi i sjell species? Pranohet qe homoseksualiteti mund te kete nje baze gjenetike, dhe kjo e bazuar ne faktin qe homoseksualiteti eshte prezent vertikalisht ne te gjithe boten shtazore dhe ate te insekteve. Kjo nuk perjashton qe homoseksualiteti mund te kete edhe nje baze epigjenetike (mbigjenor), ose te pakten une nuk e perjashtoj.Une nuk e di se si shkenca e shpjegon kete, nuk kam hasur ne ndonje material. Une mund te them se si e shpjegoj une ate.Se pari, nuk ka homoseksualitet absolut (ndoshta vetem ne nje perqindje te vogel), kjo do te thote qe kufijte midis homoseksualitetit dhe heteroseksualitetit jane te ujshme. Termi me i mire do te ishte biseksual. Ne kete pike homoseksualiteti nuk bie ne kundershtim me interesat e individit, apo me mire te themi, interesat e gjenit selfish, sepse ky individ mund t'i percoje gjenet e tij ne breznine tjeter. Ne se riprodhimi eshte loje e gjeneve selfishe edhe homoseksualiteti dhe heteroseksualiteti eshte i tille (per ate pjese qe percaktohet nga gjenet). Keto dy interesa nuk bien ne kontradikte me njeri-tjetrin per sa kohe qe gjenet qe i perfaqesojne keto interesa i lene hapesire mbijetese njeri-tjetrit, dhe jo vetem kaq, por ata nuk mund te rrojne pa njeri-tjetrin vecse ne nje kompromis. Ne kete pike evolucioni nuk ka nderhyre sepse kontradikta eshte e zgjidhur. Avantazhi? Evolucioni (edhe pse emri e kamuflon) jo domosdoshmerisht punon ne seleksionim avantazhesh. Jo vetem kaq, por ajo qe selseksionohet si avantazh mund te shnderrohet ne disvantazh ne long term. Ka edhe shume gjera perkundrejt te cilave evolucioni ehste indiferent. Une do thoja qe ne se homoseksualiteti, apo biseksualiteti, nuk eshte avantazh, ai nuk eshte te pakten dizavantazh. >6. Pse eshte ruajtur ne kohe baza gjenetike (e supozuar) e homoseksualitetit >tek njeriu? Ndoshta per te njejtat arsye qe shpjegova me siper >Cfare avantazhi ka sjelle kjo per specien njerezore? Tek speciet njerezore avantazhet ne kuptimin biologjik une do i shihja si me siper. >Cfare >avantazhi biologjik ka nje grup i cili perfshin homoseksuale ne gjirin e vet, >nga nje grup qe nuk ka homoseksuale? >Eshte shume e veshtire te flasesh per avantazhe biologjike tek >njeriu. Interesat biologjia tek njeriu modifikohet fuqishem nga >parametri social itij,kaq fuqishem sa qe mund te flitet per >ekzistence kontradiktash. Njeriu mund edhe te pyesi se cfare >avantazhi biologjik i sjell njeriut planifikimi familjar. Po keshtu >njeriu mund te pyesi se cfare avantazhi i sjell njeriut dhe >fittnessit te species njerezore martesat e stisura, ku ligjet >biologjike nuk funksionojne me? > > >7. Cfare kihet parasysh kur flitet per homoseksualitet tek kafshet? A eshte >fjala per preferenca seksuale, per zgjidhje te imponuara nga restriksione >objektive, apo per mungesa pretendimesh ndaj partnerit te mundshem? Tek kafshet perfundimisht nuk flitet per zgjidhje te imponuara. Behet fjale per zgjedhje midis dy opsionesh te kunderta. Dhe ai i zgjedh te dyja. > > >8. Hipotezat per gjenet (ose konfiguracionet gjenike) qe percaktojne >homoseksualitetin a perfshijne edhe homoseksualitetin te femrat? Nese jo, si >shpjegohet qe i njejti fenomen (preferenca ndaj partnereve seksuale te te >njejtit seks) nuk kushtezohet nga e njejta baze gjenike? Ky eshte edhe kunderargumenti im per te gjitha gjenet e cilesuara "gay", dhe kjo oeshte arsyeja qe per mendimin tim ne kete moment qe flasim nuk ka asnje prove konkrete qe X apo Y gjen eshte eprgjegjes per homoseksualitetin. >9. Nese homoseksualiteti mendohet te kete nje baze gjenetike, atehere pse te >mos kete edhe homofobia nje baze gjenetike? Njeriu duhet te ndaje dy nivele ne kete pyetje. Njera ka te beje me ate se pse ne mendojme, perse ne ndiejme, urrejme apo duam, perse ne fantazojme, perse ne enderrojme. Po ta shohesh problemin keshtu sigurisht qe gjithe keto tipare qe percaktojne unikalitetin tone si qenie inteligjente, kane nje baze gjenetike dhe molekulare dhe ndoshta edhe shume me shume se kaq. Niveli tjeter ka te beje me ate se cfare ne mendojme, se cfare enderrojme se cfare duam apo urrejme. Kjo percaktohet nga raporti yne me eksperiencat e perditshme, qe jane te pavarura nga proceset biologjike apo gjenetike. Homofobia eshte tipike njerezore (nuk di ndonje specie tjeter qe te kete homofobi) i perket pikerisht ketij te fundit, dhe eshte pasqyrim i intolerances njerezore, tolerance e kultivuar fillimisht nga militantet religioze dhe se fundi edhe nga agendat politike. (po keshtu qe te em korrekte edhe homoseksualiteti e ka care rrugen drejt agendave politike, edhe planifikimi familjar). Albana From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Fri Jun 23 14:11:07 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:11:07 -0700 Subject: [Alb-club] Pyetje per gjeneticistet Message-ID: <002a01bfdd3e$67a460c0$dbacf880@xyz.uic.edu> Hej Albana, u desh ca kohe po prape se prape arrite tek tema tende e preferuar -- politika, intoleranca, liberalizmi, etj. Me ne fund. Sipas asaj qe na propozove ti, homoseksualiteti eshte i trasheguar, dhe duhet toleruar, kurse homofobia nuk eshte gje tjeter vecse intolerance njerezore (dhe natyrisht, gjenet nuk kane te bejne gje me te). Une po them prape se nuk eshte arritur asgjekundi ne perfundimin se homoseksualiteti eshte hereditar, dhe ashtu sic thote Albana qe homofobia eshte pasqyrim i intolerances njerezore, une mund te them _me_po_aq_objektivitet_shkencor_ se homoseksualiteti eshte rezultat i perversitetit njerezor. Lutem qe ata qe jane homo mos nxehen se ky eshte thjesht nje argument per hir te argumentit (edhe po u nxehen homot mua nuk me prishet fort puna). > Homofobia eshte tipike njerezore (nuk di ndonje specie tjeter qe te > kete homofobi) i perket pikerisht ketij te fundit, dhe eshte pasqyrim > i intolerances njerezore, tolerance e kultivuar fillimisht nga > militantet religioze dhe se fundi edhe nga agendat politike. (po > keshtu qe te em korrekte edhe homoseksualiteti e ka care rrugen drejt > agendave politike, edhe planifikimi familjar). From albfilm at yahoo.com Fri Jun 23 11:52:38 2000 From: albfilm at yahoo.com (andi murataj) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] law student looking for job Message-ID: <20000623155238.4555.qmail@web3406.mail.yahoo.com> A ishte dikush ne kete liste para ca ditesh qe kerkonte te dinte nese ka ndonje qe njeh dike qe interesohet per perkthime materialesh juridike nga shqiperia. Nese po me dergo email albfilm at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From A4902 at dho.edu.tr Fri Jun 23 11:41:03 2000 From: A4902 at dho.edu.tr (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Shkelqim_AGOLL=DD?=) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:41:03 +0300 Subject: [Alb-club] lamtumire Message-ID: Javen e ardhshme po ma solli zoti mbare do te shkoj ne Atdhe. Lamtumire ...te gjitheve... Gjithe te mirat! Shkelqim Agolli From URAN37 at aol.com Fri Jun 23 12:46:14 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:46:14 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendoni? Message-ID: <65.60258e2.2684ee56@aol.com> pasi darkes po i vinte fundi dhe njerezit po rralloheshin mora guximin dhe pyeta Gjergjin mbi historine e arratisjes nga Shqiperia ne ish jugosllavi.kemi hikur me thote kur enveri ishte me pushime ne pogradec.per te mos e zgjatur e pyeta per trajtimin qe i bene mbasi arriti. me kane torturuar serbet tha shume, por pasi vendosen qe nuk isha i derguar i sigurimit cdo gje ndryshoi.si ndryshoi e pyes. me shpune ne hotel shume te shtrejte me veshen e ushqyen si prindi femine ,me ofruan dhe femra sikur te isha sulltan. je ne vete i them ? po mor po se ata e kishin dhe bileten time per amerike gati ., pasi edinin qe do te ikja ne amerike pse jo -me thote.spo te kuptoj i them .degjo ketu serbet jane shume te zgjuar dhe dinake . ne fillim te marrin erzin nderin lavdine krenarine ., pasi mbarojne fazen e pare te trajtojne si qen i pasanikut te krehin e te lajne ,po ce do ne fillim te shnderojne pastaj te bejne shok. greket e bejne me hipokrizi ndersa serbet me dhune dhe frike.pasi ta kesh ngrene mire drurin ti e di vete se kush eshte padroni . (kete mentalitet kane zagaret me thote) pyet shqiptaret qe jane arratisur nga jugosllavia .shumica kane te njejten histori me thote .ata qe ishin karafila dhe sot kane nostalgji per kabarete e jugosllavise dhe po ti pyesnje para lufte kishin dhe kurajon te thonin se serbet kane civilizim <<. mu kujtua civilizimi ne afriken e jugut ku tek prifti meshonte per krisht ne anen tjeter te rruges nje afrikani i thyenin krahun me gure ,ose pamje nga filmi (la mission) me Deniron ku kisha si institucion nuk paraqet besimin ne zot por i sherben te civilizuarve europiane qe shisnin dhe blenin njerez. >> thashe me vete ne duhet te jemi te fundmit e moikaneve ne europe ndaj dhe se kuptojme kete lloj civilizimi qe fqinjet na ofrojne . sot dita erdhi qe Gjergji te jete perkthyes me trupat amerikane ne kosove ndoshta kur te vi do te me rrefeje me shume per arsyet dhe shkaqet mbi veshtiresite qe Shqiptaret kane per tu sjelle me edukate ndaj atyre qe na konsiderojne si njerez me bisht te pagdhendur etj etj . greket thone : i akri tis kakias su emfanisete me tis kalosinis muri : qe dote thote -- e keqja me e madhe (vete djalli) te paraqitet me fytyren e miresise . Shqiptaret thone : mos i shih gunen po shikoi punen . From mondib at yahoo.com Fri Jun 23 13:28:54 2000 From: mondib at yahoo.com (edmond baho) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] New York City and Era18@aol.com Message-ID: <20000623172854.27532.qmail@web6201.mail.yahoo.com> Era, I always like to think of you as a very nice and witty girl who is above all very social and friendly. But I have started to think that New York City is getting into you slowly and you have developed a very bitter tongue with time. Your English is better than most people here by the way, but this is exactly one of the reasons that makes me believe that you choose the words you choose not because you can't choose some softer synonyms, but because you want to convey agressivity at that moment. The same thing in Albanian. Your message on homosexuals was too much, especially because I was trying to be honest and say what I really feel about them. The same goes for yesterday messages where even guy like myself would find it as too agressive the meaning of the words : fat bastard, parkinsonic imbecile, blind paralysed maniac, etc. How can you be sure that you don't have "fat" people in this list who might be offended, or people with parkinsonic blind relatives, etc. You might be smart enough to put a disclaimer there (as having a bad day)just to excuse your language, but that doesn't change the total insensitivity displayed earlier about death, sickness etc. And all this is absurd to me when one day before you write the most poetic message on humanity. I sometimes can't explain what goes on in your mind. You write well one way or the other, but I have trouble predicting your reactions. Just my honest opinion. Best regards, Mondi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu Fri Jun 23 15:58:49 2000 From: aqeli1 at tigger.cc.uic.edu (Albi Qeli) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:58:49 -0700 Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendoni? Message-ID: <004101bfdd4d$739491c0$dbacf880@xyz.uic.edu> Edhe Genc edhe Urani po e bejne qimen tra. Genci, eshte e vertete qe historia e viteve/dekadave/shekujve te fundit e ka bere komunikimin me serbet te veshtire, po pune e madhe. Meqe tani ti e di kete pune, heren tjeter kur te takosh ndonje serb mos e prish gjakun dhe sillu normalisht. E mos prit qe te jene njerez me bisht. Urani nga ana e tij nxitoi t'i jape pergjigjen standard Gencit: "Na ler rehat me gjithe serbet." Ky eshte stili me i kollajte po problemi me te eshte se nuk na ndihmon qe te ecim perpara fare. Me serbet -- duam apo s'duam -- do komunikojme e do merremi vesh se s'ben se jemi gjitone. Natyrisht, nuk ka nevoje t'i duam e t'i dashurojme shume, historine do ta mbajme mend, po duhet te sillemi njerezisht. From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 14:07:50 2000 From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:07:50 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendoni? Message-ID: <20000623180750.37368.qmail@hotmail.com> Per kete ndryshe mendim mund te japin persona qe nuk jane implikuar nga konflikti historik Serbo-shqiptar, ndryshe mendim japin shqiptaret, ndryshe mendim japin edhe ato shqiptare qe jane viktima te ketij konflikti. Take a look in this story : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gjate WWII nje ushtar croat - pro Nazist kujton : ".........partizanet serb erdhen dhe me vrane para syve te mi nenen dhe dy femijet e mi Milla dhe Miranda, me krisma qe akoma i degjoj si rrufe mbi koke, megjithate une se di, nuk e di pse s'leviza nga ferrat ku isha i fshehur e te qelloja megjithese isha i armatosur............... Qaja, qaja, dhe vura re se kisha grisur pothujase menget e kapotes nga shtrengimi i dhembeve............ Pas ca kohe ,ne fakt se mbaj mend se sa ore kaluan ashtu, partizanet iken dhe aty ndenji vetem nje roje (ne fakt pervec kufomave te familjes time s'kishte asgje tjeter), qe nga theksi e kuptova qe ishte serb........ Ishte shume i ri, ndoshta 20 ndoshta 22, i gjate, me sy kaf dhe paksa i dobet...... Ai la armen e mbeshtetur mbi porten time dhe filloi te pinte duhan ........ Une dola si i terbuar nga isha me automatikun e drejtuar nga ai, kurse ai filloi te bertiste a qante, Jo, Jo, Jo, JO dhe aty mu duk akoma me i vogel, ndoshta 17 ndoshta 18, me sy qe qanin.......... nuk e lashe te qante shume.......sikur nuk e lashe edhe te vuante... E qellova direkt ne koke sepse nuk doja ta shihja e te me vinte meshire per te ........ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>... >From: "Genc Baki" >Reply-To: alb-club at alb-net.com >To: alb-club at alb-net.com >Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendoni? >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 02:24:07 PDT > > *** Alb-Club Discussion List *** > > > >Pershendetje te gjitheve. > >Dje me erdhi motra nga Tirana. Do kaloje ca kohe ketu ne Japoni. Nuk me >kishte ndodhur me pare te prisja dike te familjes ne aeroport por pashe se >ishte stresuese. Me syte ngulur tek tabela elektronike e fluturimeve me >zemer te ngrire shikoja se si numrat ne kutite e ores se mberritjes se >avionit nderroheshin vazhdimisht duke treguar se avioni po vonohej. Hej >dreqi ta haje. Pse vetem ne na vonohen avionet? Dhe pse vonohet? C'po ndodh >atje siper? Mos kane rene gje maskat e oksigjenit para hundeve atyre ne >aeroplan? Nejse. Aeroplani me ne fund u ul. 30' me vonese. Kush po pyet ne >fund te fundit, deri sa erdhi. Tani po prisja qe motra te vuloste >pashaporten, te merrte valixhen dhe te dilte tek dalja e udhetareve. Prit e >prit e s'ka. Sa gjate prita? Nuk po e kuptoja por kur pashe oren kishte >kaluar me shume se 30' qe kur avioni kishte mberritur. E po kjo tani. I >kisha dhene motres numrin tim te celularit per te me marre ne telefon po te >kishte ndonje problem kur te mberrinte por fillova te dyshoj ne se asaj do >ti jepej mundesia te me telefononte. Kur ne kete moment bie celulari im. >Shoh numrin se nga vinte telefonata dhe ekrani i celularit tregon nje numer >celulari ne Tokjo. Po kjo c'te jete? Hap telefonin kur ne anen tjeter >degjoj >zerin e motres: "Genc c'kemi? Duket se do te vonohem pak se ka shume, shume >njerez." "Mire" i them "Po te pres. Telefonin e kujt po perdor" e pyes. "Po >perdor telefonin e nje vajze ketu qe ma dha pasi i thashe qe ti mund te >beheshe merak." E po mire. Te pakten u qetesova pak sepse ajo do te dilte >se >shpejti. Me ne fund doli, u takuam pas disa vitesh e te tjera e te tjera qe >shoqerojne takimin e motres e vellait qe jane nga Shqiperia ne nje vend te >huaj. Ulemi diku per nje kafe para se ti hypim trenit. Pasi mbaruan pyetjet >e para e pyes se kush ishte ajo qe e ndihmoi me telefonin. Pa te keq me >pergjigjet "Nje Jugosllave." "Jugosllave" i them une i habitur. "Me mua >tallesh, c'do te thuash me kete "Jugosllave"? Mos e ke fjalen gje per >Serbe?" "Nuk e di" me thote. "Kur e pyeta se nga je mu pergjigj "Jam >Jugosllave" keshtu qe une nuk e ngava me tej". Nejse thashe me vete, kushdo >qe te jete duhet falenderuar. Numri i telefonit te saj kishte mbetur ne >memorjen e telfonit tim qe nga momenti kur motra me mori duke perdorur ate >telefon. Pse shpresoj qe ajo te mos jete serbe? Budallalleqe. Edhe po qe >serbe cfare? Nuk e di. Te nesermen i bie telefonit per te folur me >Majen(emer i bukur), keshtu quhej ajo vajza. I bie numrit dhe nje ze vajze >pergjigjet. I them "Miredita. A mund te flas pak me Znj.Majen?" "Une jam" >vjen pergjigja. "Une quhem Genci" i them "dhe jam vellai i Gentjanes, asaj >shqiptares qe takuat dje ne avion." "Oh, po" thote ajo "si jeni?" "Jam >mire" >i them. "Ju morra qe tiu falenderoj per diten e djeshme." "Oh, s'ka perse" >thote ajo "Qe kenaqesia ime" Pasi folem pak marr guximin dhe e pyes "A mund >tiu pyes se nga jeni?" "Pse nuk iu tha motra se nga jam?" vjen pergjigja >pak >e ftohte. "Motra me tha qe jeni nga Jugosllavia por nqs do kishte mundesi >do >te doja nga c'pjese e Jugosllavise?" "Une jam serbe, nga Beogradi" vjen >pergjigja si teh akulli. E prisha fare. E dh... I them edhe nje here >faleminderit dhe nje "Take care" dhe e mbyll telefonin. Dreqi ta haje. Pse >na ndjekin hijet nga prapa. Pse gjykojme njerezit se nga jane? E pastaj se >ishte serbe? Po le te ishte edhe Greke, Maqedonase a ku di une. Ishte njeri >dhe ndihmoi nje njeri. A do te ndihmoja une nje serb ne te njejtat >rrethana? >Nuk e di por them se PO! >Ndoshta u zgjata por kjo ishte ajo qe doja tiu tregoja sot .Po deshet te >thoni dicka rreth kesaj ndodhie jeni te mirepritur. > >Genci. > >PS: Dikush para dy ditesh ne liste ngriti pretendimin se lufta duhet >zhvilluar sipas rregullave. Po te zbatoheshin rregullat nuk do te kishte >lufte. >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > >***Alb-Club*** >____________________________________________________ >Alb-Club mailing list: Alb-Club at alb-net.com >http://www.alb-net.com/mailman/listinfo/alb-club ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From marsi at vcn.bc.ca Fri Jun 23 15:13:17 2000 From: marsi at vcn.bc.ca (Margarita Ifti) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] pyetje per gjeneticienet In-Reply-To: <77.5c9a82b.26840842@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 Private1959 at aol.com wrote: > Duke u perpjekur te kuptoj disa mesazhe shume teknike qe u afishuan ketu > ne lidhje me bazat gjenetike te homoseksualitetit, me lindi deshira te > them edhe une disa gjera, po si profan qe jam, e vetmja menyre sesi mund > te marr pjese ne diskutim eshte duke pyetur. Dale, pyetjet e tua se pse me duken thelbesore ;-) Ne fakt, pyetjet qe kane te bejne me biologjine i takojne Albanes (eshte domeni i saj). Fusha ime e studimit eshte sistemet komplekse/qe vetorganizohen, dhe ne kete kuader teoria e lojrave/evolucionit. Pra, po merrem me pyetjet qe adresojne gjera qe jane ne domenin tim. > 3. A eshte e vertete se pervecse tek njeriu, shtrirja e aktivitetit seksual > gjate gjithe vitit vihet re edhe ne shume kafshe shtepiake? Nese eshte > keshtu, nuk eshte me e arsyeshme te mendohet se modifikimi i seksualitetit > lidhet me nje ndryshim te rrethanave materiale te jeteses? Pyetje retorike? ;-) > 4. Cfare avantazhi biologjik (evolucionar) sjellin tiparet unike te > seksualitetit njerezor? Cilat jane avantazhet biologjike te prishjes se > korrelacionit absolut midis aktivitetit seksual dhe riprodhimit? Pyetja jote no. 3, dhe pergjigjja e Albit sikur na bejne pune. > 5. Nese pranohet qe homoseksualiteti ka baze gjenetike, si mund te > shpjegohet ky tipar nga pikepamja evolucioniste? Cfare avantazhi i sjell > species? Redukton konkurrencen per ushqim/mjete jetese, duke kufizuar numrin e pasardhesve, nderkohe qe nevojat seksuale te anetareve te grupit vazhdojne te plotesohen. Gje qe me ben te kujtoj dy qendrime diametralisht te kunderta ne dy popuj te ndryshem ne boten antike: cifutet dhe greket. Cifutet jetonin ne kushte te veshtira, ku mbijetesa e atij grupi etnik ishte vazhdimisht ne pikepyetje, per shkak te lufterave, dhe, pra, cdo anetar i ri i grupit ishte i mirepritur si uji i pakte. Pasoja? Homoseksualiteti ishte krejtesisht i papranueshem nga pikepamja morale, pikerisht sepse ishte e nevojshme qe mundesisht cdo akt seksual te ngjizte nje ushtar te ri. Nga ana tjeter, greket jetonin ne kushte ku ushqimi ishte i pakte, dhe, pra, sa me pak lindje te reja, aq me pak vdekje nder popullaten ekzistuese. Si mund te kenaqen nevojat seksuale te njerezve, pa krijuar pasardhes? Sipas njerit nga udheheqesit e mi shkencore, nje eticist dhe filozof (qe e njeh shume mire teorine e lojrave), kjo eshte pikerisht rrenja e aresyes qe homoseksualiteti tolerohej nder greket e lashte e ishte i papranueshem nder cifutet, prej nga u mbart edhe ne moralin e krishtere (duke u bere baze per homofobine, sic e ve ne dukje Albana). > 6. Pse eshte ruajtur ne kohe baza gjenetike (e supozuar) e > homoseksualitetit tek njeriu? Cfare avantazhi ka sjelle kjo per specien > njerezore? Cfare avantazhi biologjik ka nje grup i cili perfshin > homoseksuale ne gjirin e vet, nga nje grup qe nuk ka homoseksuale? Ruajtur?! Duket sikur kemi hyre ne fushen e kompleksitetit. As eshte ruajtur, as eshte zhdukur. Thjesht ekziston. Mua me duket se Albana ishte shume eksplicite dhe e kuptueshme, kur tha qe nuk ka nje gjen ose grup gjenesh pergjegjes per homoseksualitetin, gjithsesi eshte nje devijim gjenetik. (Fjala devijim me duket me e sakte, sepse jep idene e shmangjes nga mesatarja dhe aq, pra dhene gjykime emocionale lidhur me ceshtjen). Pergjegjes per orientimin seksual te njerezve eshte rezultantja e aktivitetit te tyre hormonal, gje qe ka (padyshim) baze gjenetike, por eshte rezultat i BASHKEVEPRIMIT te gjeneve te njeriut. E pare ne kete drite, s'eshte aspak e cuditshme qe seksualiteti i njerezve nuk eshte i ndare me thike, por kufijte jane te ujshem, pikerisht sepse aktiviteti hormonal nuk eshte i kuantizuar, por perkundrazi, eshte madhesi e vazhduar. Atehere fakti qe nuk mund te "fajesohet" nje gjen ose grup gjenesh per homo- ose bi-seksualitetin rrjedh natyrshem, ashtu si edhe fakti qe nuk mund te percaktohet seksualiteti i femijes paraprakisht (varet se si do te bashkeveprojne gjenet e prinderve ne rastin konkret te atij femije), si edhe fakti qe vellezer (motra), madje edhe binjake, mund te jene te ndryshem ne seksualitetin e tyre (sepse gjenet e prinderve kane bashkevepruar ndryshe ne njerin e tjetrin femije). Me fjale te tjera, eshte nje sistem ne te cilin te njejtet ingrediente mund te perzihen ne menyra te ndryshme dhe te japin rezultate fare te ndryshme (keto jane njeri nga rastet e sistemeve komplekse, qe vetorganizohen ne menyra te ndryshme, e ne as mund ta ndikojme organizimin perfundimtar, e madje as ta parashikojme ate). Shendet, Margarita -- Properly understood, NASDAQ is Bingo for Yuppies. From Era18 at aol.com Fri Jun 23 15:13:24 2000 From: Era18 at aol.com (Era18 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:13:24 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] New York City and Era18@aol.com Message-ID: In a message dated 6/23/00 1:32:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mondib at yahoo.com writes: << The same goes for yesterday messages where even guy like myself would find it as too agressive the meaning of the words : fat bastard, parkinsonic imbecile, blind paralysed maniac, etc. How can you be sure that you don't have "fat" people in this list who might be offended, or people with parkinsonic blind relatives, etc >> Mondi, I think that it is very flattering the fact that you take the time to analyze me, my vocabulary, my reactions, my behavioral inconsistencies, etc. Very flattering indeed. Regarding the language that I used, I don't know why it could be offensive to you or anybody. I think that I just used descriptive language, no criticism or insult intended. I am not very fond of euphemisms. The Americans have taken them too far by trying to be politically correct and to me that is ridiculous. We had enough trouble learning basic English when we first came here, and now all of a sudden we are told that whatever was basic could get you in trouble? If you want me to go ahead and call that fat guy "gravitationally challenged" I will do so. I can even call him big boned (which is descriptive only to dinosaurs in my opinion). But please note that the guy was FAT, (I saw him) he was very fat and he had beaten his wife. We better see things the way they are not the way we wish they were. Wait! They also have a term for wife-beating. They call it "intermittent explosive disorder". And then, where do I find a term for "bastard"? Would "morally unattractive" do in this case? After all, what is wrong with "blind"? In my head I translate it directly from the Albanian "i verber". Jo "qorr" por "I verber". Or shall we say " optically challenged"? Or maybe "visually impaired"? Doesn't it sound ridiculous? What was the other one that I should correct? Ah, "paralyzed"! OK, let me see if I can find a replacement for this one. How about "physically disadvantaged", or "differently-abled" ? (which I am not making up at all, because I am involving the whole office here and they are confirming to me that this is how the politically correct term goes, even though it is totally ridiculous) . But aren't we all differently-abled? Some of us scratch their heads with the left hand and some with the right. So much for those language freaks! The meanings of the words have been so grotesquely distorted that it is not even fun anymore. And I can bet you, the reason why these words are invented is because since the society finds itself totally unable to do anything meaningful about its victims, the least to be done is walk around and invent stupid hyphenated words to make them feel better while some politicians promote their agendas by sounding like they are protecting the helpless and the minority victims. A midget or a dwarf is not a midget anymore, but "vertically challenged". If you ask me, my friend Alban Gjyrezi is vertically challenged, who might be 1m80cm but who will do that bungee jumping thing every week-end. No sense of verticality or height whatsoever ( Alban, ta kam thene 100 here: do thyesh qafen ndonje dite! ) People are not "in love" anymore, but "emotionally involved". Phe! The ugly are now called "esthetically challenged" Lying on a job application is now " resume enhancement" People dying from bombs are just "collateral damages" Baldness for men is "acquired uncombable hair" (of course I am using all the electronic vocabularies and the thesaurus that I can find here...) Come on Mondi! Get real! Use them yourself if you can. I am fine with fat and ugly. It is short and right to the point. Have a nice week-end! Era P.S. Mondi, your message on gay people was ugly. I am really sorry you felt I was exaggerating, but I firmly believe that you were the one exaggerating. P.S.S. A ka ndonje qe mund te na jape shembuj te ngjashem ne shqip? Fjale "ofensive" qe mund te me bien ndermend tani mund te jene te njejtat qe permendem me lart: i shemtuar, tullac, buf...e shume e shume te tjera qe s'ma ka qejfi t'i ze me goje tani se po me prishet fare pa te drejte imazhi i njeriut te sjellshem, punetor dhe liridashes :) From silke.blumbach at t-online.de Fri Jun 23 16:36:47 2000 From: silke.blumbach at t-online.de (Silke Blumbach) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:36:47 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] I am ... (poetry) Message-ID: <3953CA5E.74D28D42@t-online.de> I am the sheep in mountain grass and the eagles in the wind. I am death and life in Tirana's buzzing streets. The screaming mouths and silent bones of Kosova - that's me. Despair and hope in hundreds of eyes on drowning hunger ships - that's me. I am the rainbow in the poisoned petrol lakes of Ballsh. I am the dead fish along the canalized and polluted Lana. The unreal turquoise streaming of beautiful Vjosa - that's me, too, And the glittering, caressing waves of Saranda's smiling and forgetting beach - that's me. I am a thousend Albanian wombs colonized by war and patriarchy, But I am, too, the power of Teuta, Shota Galica, Flora Brovina and my friend Mrika from Allias. One day my body will be rotting into my beloved Albanian earth, Yet from my chest will rise my soul with golden eagles' wings To melt eternally into the Golden Sun. (C) 2000 Silke Liria Blumbach -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: silke.blumbach.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 365 bytes Desc: Visitenkarte f?r Silke Blumbach Url : http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/alb-club/attachments/20000623/53abdfe2/attachment.vcf From Dritan68 at aol.com Fri Jun 23 17:35:51 2000 From: Dritan68 at aol.com (Dritan68 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:35:51 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] pyetje per gjeneticienet Message-ID: <5a.6f72334.26853237@aol.com> In a message dated 6/23/00 2:18:15 PM Central Daylight Time, marsi at vcn.bc.ca writes: << Nga ana tjeter, greket jetonin ne kushte ku ushqimi ishte i pakte, dhe, pra, sa me pak lindje te reja, aq me pak vdekje nder popullaten ekzistuese. Si mund te kenaqen nevojat seksuale te njerezve, pa krijuar pasardhes? Sipas njerit nga udheheqesit e mi shkencore, nje eticist dhe filozof (qe e njeh shume mire teorine e lojrave), kjo eshte pikerisht rrenja e aresyes qe homoseksualiteti tolerohej nder greket e lashte e ishte i papranueshem nder cifutet, prej nga u mbart edhe ne moralin e krishtere (duke u bere baze per homofobine, sic e ve ne dukje Albana). >> Teori interesante, kinezet dhe indianet duhet te ishin kthyer me kohe ne dylbera siaps kesaj teorie per frenuar shtimin e poppullsise ne vendet respektive. From altin_topi at yahoo.com Fri Jun 23 20:41:24 2000 From: altin_topi at yahoo.com (altin topi) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Sexual Jokes Message-ID: <20000624004124.26928.qmail@web3303.mail.yahoo.com> Sexual Jokes - Parental discretion is advised(R) There was a young woman who lived with her grandmother. One night the granddaughter came bouncing down the stairs dressed to go out to a party wearing a see through blouse without a bra. her grandmother told her to go back upstairs and dress decent. The young woman said," No, I want to show off my rosebuds" and went out the door, The next day the granddaughter came outside to find her grandmother on the porch wearing the see through blouse without bra. "grandmother!! What are you doing? My boyfriend and a couple of other friends are coming over any time now." She cried, "Please go change your blouse. I'm so embarrassed!!!" The older women replied, "Well if you can show off your rosebuds the I can show off my hanging baskets! .... A 90-year old man announced his intention to marry a woman of 30, He is persuaded to have a medical exam first. "everyone tells me I need a checkup to see if I'm sexually fit", he says to the doctor. "O.K. says the medic,"let me see your sex organs. "so the old guy sticks out his tongue and his middle finger. .... A man goes to a doctor and says. "Doctor, I have a sexual performance problem. Can you help me?" "Oh, that's not a problem anymore! announces the proud physician. "They just came out with this wonder drug, Viagra, that does the trick! You take some pills and your problems are history. "So, the doctor gives the man a prescription and sends him on his merry way. A couple of months later, the doctor runs into his patient on the street. "Doctor, Doctor!" exclaims the man excitedly. " I've got to thank you!. This drug is a miracle! It's wonderful!" "Well, I'm glad to hear that," says the pleased physician. "What does your wife think about it?" "Wife?" asks the man. I haven't been home yet." The Generals The Pentagon recently found it had too many generals and offered an early retirement bonus. They promised any general who retired his full benefits plus $10,000 every inch measured in a strait line between any two points on the general's body, with the general getting to select any pair of points he wished. The first man, an Air Force general, accepted. He asked the pension man to measure from the top of his head to the tip of his toes. Six feet. He walked out with a check of $720,000. The second man, an Army general, asked them to measure from the tip of his outstretched hands to his toes. Eight feet. He walked out with a check of $960,000. When a third general, a grizzly old Marine, was asked where to measure, he told the pension man..." From the tip of my penis to the bottom of my testicles." The pension man suggested that perhaps the Marine general might like to reconsider, pointing out the nice checks the previous generals had received. The Marine insisted and the pension expert said that would be fine, but that he'd better get the medical officer to do the measuring. The medical officer attended and asked the general to drop'em. He did. The medical officer placed the tape on the tip of the general's penis and began to work back. "My God" he said. "Where are your testicles?" The general replied, "In Vietnam." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From rdervishi at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 21:53:42 2000 From: rdervishi at hotmail.com (Redon Dervishi) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:53:42 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Pyetje per gjeneticienet Message-ID: <20000624015342.46241.qmail@hotmail.com> Te dashur gjeneticiene, Une kam vetem nje pyetje per te gjithe juve: Cfare duhet te bejme ne anetaret jogjeneticiene te kesaj liste qe t'jua kthejme mendjen nga ky subjekt qe keni nisur? Mos kini turp! Thjesht na thoni "what it takes". A t'ju dergojme te gjitheve nga $30? A te bejme kurban nje virgjereshe? Vetem na thoni aman nje ore e me pare se u cmendem. Tani qe bete mesimin uje ne kete liste, na lini rehat me gjithe gjenet se s'paska pasur gje me te merziteshme. Une propozojme qe kete javen qe vjen t'ua dedikojme te drejtave te kafsheve. Kush nga ju eshte kunder "animal testing"? Te fala dhe...mjaft! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From altin_topi at yahoo.com Fri Jun 23 20:40:57 2000 From: altin_topi at yahoo.com (altin topi) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] Shkrimtari dhe vepra e tij letrare - Pjesa I Message-ID: <20000624004057.26867.qmail@web3303.mail.yahoo.com> CFARE E BEN UNIVERSALE NJE VEPER LETRARE ? Perseri e perseri duke iu rikthyer leximit te autoreve qe kemi per zemer bindemi se ato edhe pas rileximit te vepres se tyre kane aftesi te na befasojne serishmi. Shkrimtaret e medhenj na mahnisin me universalitetin e tyre, sepse ata nuk jane thjesht nje miniere apo forxhe ideshe, por gjithmone edhe nje "kuti e magjikeshme" prej ku dalin panderprere gjera te reja e te befasueshme, qe ne jemi ne gjendje t'i percojme sensualisht apo t'i abstragojme vetem pas nje ripertypje te gjate. Te pushton frika se ndoshta kurre nuk mund te depertosh plotesisht ne boten e tyre. E larget, e huaj perngjan magjia e tyre ne njohjen e pare, shume larg ne rete e pafundesise eshte mendimi i tyre, shume i vecante mesazhi i tyre. Per te hedhur veshtrimin ne ate univers te ri, te sapohapur e per t'a shendruar ate ne nje qiell familiar duhet ne rradhe te pare thelle ne brendesine tone te temperojme forcen e te kuptuarit. Per te arritur ne ate mundesi te re e me te gjere thithjeje duhet te arrime ne labirinthet e ujedhesat me te fundme te qenies tone. Vetem atje mund te bashkohemi me shkrimtarin, per te zbuluar humanizmin e tij ne fillim fantastik e me tej mahniterisht te vertete. Agimet boreale misterioze e te gjakosura nuk duken pjese e botes tone, nuk perngjajne aspak me diellin e ngrohte, ato kercenojne oret e prehjet tona te embelta. E ne duam te ndalojme, te trembur duam te kthehemi ne boten tone me te ngrohte, me te sjelleshme, por ndoshta shume me te ngushte. Por megjithate ne nuk ndalemi, shpirti jone pas reqethjes se pare pak nga pak kupton se ankthi eshte kthyer ne nje dashuri te zjarrte, sapo kemi filluar te zbresim ne zemren e Titanit. Fjale pas fjale, faqe pas faqe, ne cdo njeren prej krijesave te tij hapet nje galeri qe te con poshte ne labirinthet tokesore demoniake, apo te ngre ne nje fluturim me krahet e te cilit mund te prekish vete Zotin.Titanet nuk zgjasin doren per te na ndihmuar te arrime tek ato, asnje bulevard apo monopat nuk na con ne nje kufi te fundme. Ato kurre nuk a tradhetojne idene e tyre, kurrsesi nuk i perkushtohen individeve te vecante, pjesa e dukeshme e perditeshme se tyre eshte thjesht nje maskim, e ne vetem genjejme veten ne se mendojme se portat e jetes se tyre jane te hapura per te lejuar zhbirimin e cfaredo kurioziteti, pergjigjen e cdo lloj pyetje. Por nga ana tjeter shkrimtaret e jetojne te perditeshmen e tyre si bashkekohes te lexuesve te padurimte e vazhdimisht kerkues per emocione te reja. Detyra per te nxjerre punime qe t'i pergjigjen kerkeses te pameshireshme te lexuesve per cilesi e prodhimtari, kontratave me shtepite botuese per te siguruar buken e perditeshme, e shendron ekzistencen e tyre ne nje "quandary", nje orvatje e perpjekje Titanike, nje ankth te perditshem. Historia na sjell shume shembujt heroike te letersise, ku nen trusnine e kreditoreve, borxheve, afateve dhe detyrimeve kontraktuale e financiare karshi shtepive botuese duhej te shkruanin vazhdimisht, te krijonin e te conin ne shumicen e rasteve ne doreshkrim e te pakorrektuara ato punime qe me vone do te shendroheshin ne kryevepra boterore e ndoshta me kurre te arriteshme. Po si mund te ndodhe kjo; te jetuarit e krijuarit ne nje bote kaq te komplikuar e banale njekohesisht? Shkrimtari i vertete, poeti i vertete, ka nje dhunti te vecante, jashte normes, dicka te jashtezakoneshme. Kjo eshte menyra e te kerkuarit brenda vetes, vazhdimisht ne gjurme te fytyres te vertete e te fshehur, autenticitetin, te verteten e vet njerezore. Kjo eshte arsyeja qe sic thote Heminguei ai nuk pushon se befasuari, te kerkuari duke e bere universal mesazhin e tij. Ai duke germuar ne thellesi te vetes, arrin te zbuloje, te nxjerre qenien e tij si njeri, gjithshka qe nuk ka te beje thjesht me veteveten, por me te gjithe te tjeret, ajo qe e afron me shume me te verteten, me thelbin e natyres njerezore, me universin e pamate njerezor. Dualizmi e unifikimi jane kuantumi fizik i ekzistences te vet shpirtit te fuqishem te shkrimtarit. Duke i pasur rrenjet te lidhura pazgjidhshmerisht me token e njerezit e perkatesise te tij kombetare ai eshte njekohesisht edhe qytetari i botes. Imagjinata e tij behet ajo ura njerezore, kontribon te fuqizoje ate zinxhir njerezor. Poetikisht nepermjet mesazhit kristian e te cdo feje tjeter, e qe ne fakt nuk eshte gje tjeter vecse emeruesi i perbashket i gjinise njerezore - humanizmi, poeti italian Leopardi na e ka sjelle me Gjineshtren... " ...Fisnikeria njerezore eshte ajo / cmuese e cdo bashkimi njerezor / ne nje qellim e perqafim te perbashket / duke i afruar ne nje dashuri te vertete / duke pritur prej tyre / ndihmen e vlefshme e te shpejte / ne rreziqet e ndersjellta / e ne ankthet e luftrave te kota / ...." Duket qe kete t'a kete ndjere e menduar edhe Ismail Kadareja(kjo eshte edhe arsyeja qe renditet ne shkrimtaret me emer te kohes sone). Personalisht per mua kur une e lexova per here te pare 'Bisedat me Eric Faye' per Roiterin vite me pare(prill - nentor 1991) u entuziazmova e mendova: Ky eshte "chagrin-i" i vertete i nje pende te fuqishme. Intervista hapet me pyetjen: "Perse shkruani ju Z. Kadare ?" Kjo pyetje nxjerr koke vazhdimisht e vazhdimisht qe nga lashtesia e megjithese nuk kemi evidenca, patjeter duhet t'i jete drejtuar edhe endacakut te verber Homer. Pergjigjet kane qene nga me te ndryshmet, e Kadareja instiktivisht duke ditur perkatesine e tij pergjigjet: "Sepse i perkas races te shkrimtareve, qe eshte krijuar per te shkruar. I bindem e i pergjigjem instinktit tim racor..." E pastaj ai vazhdon.. "Ne se nje shkrimtar shkruan mire e qe te vazhdoje te shkruaje me cilesi duhet te disponoje rezerva te medha, pa te cilat nuk mund te shkruaje. Ai eshte si nje rafineri nafte, qe funksionon ne saje te rezervave te "arit te zi" te grumbulluara nen toke". Pra shkrimtari i mirefillte nuk eshte nje lojtar, xhongler apo alkimist fjalesh, por nje njeri qe kerkon e germon ne thellesite e pafund te vetes e punon si nje rafineri qe perpunon rezerven e pafund te "arit" te tij. "Instinkti i races te shkrimtarit" - te kerkuarit e gjen rezerven e pare ne femijerine e vet shkrimtarit, ne token e vendin qe e lindi. Kjo ngjan te kete qene burimi i pare i te gjithe qemtonjesve, meditonjesve e gdhendesve te fjales. E si simbol mahnites vepra merr formen e fatit te vet njeriut, te vet shkrimtarit. Per shumicen e tyre ndoshta femijeria eshte nje njolle gri e nje vajtim i larget. Shumica e poeteve e shkrimtareve duke veshtruar thelle ne syte femijeve - krijesave te veprave tyre, percjellin deshmine e fuqishme se ato kane njohur shikimin e zjarrte te tyre, nje pjese e tyre nga fantazia e ndezur e gati alucinante, e mbushur plot me deshira te pasigurta, shqetesuese per t'u rritur shpejt, fanatizmi e idealizmi i rrembyer rinor per te ndihmuar njerezimin rriten ne imagjinaten e shkrimtarit e tonen para kohe. Midis tyre gjen vogelushe te mbushur me friken e ankthet e shpjegueshme qe rrjedhin nga mjerimet shtepiake, mungesat prej varferise, por megjithate stoike per te mos kallzuar te verteten e te mbrojne familjen e te afermit e tyre. Ne kufijte e skajshem te femijerise, ne hyrjen e muzget te adolishences, ato gjejne strehe ne qytetin perjetesisht te lire, ne qoshen e te harruarve e te gjithe te pakenaqurve, ne boten e librave. Por bota e librave eshte nje bote e ndryshme dhe e rrezikeshme, qe te largon gjithmone e me shume nga realiteti duke te futur ne "tunele te nendheshme", ne ato udhe te erreta te shthurjes te te gjitha veseve te fshehta te mendimit e shqisave. Por ja perseri Kadareja na befason me pohimin per femijerine e tij te lumtur. Per cudi te te gjitheve ai pohon se... "te gjitha teorite sipas te cilave origjina e kreativitetit eshte e lidhur me nje femijeri te palumtur jane fallso." Ai pastaj vazhdon... Megjithese femijeria ime perkoi me nje periudhe te turbullt historike, une mbaj mend se kam qene nje femije i lumtur... i rritur ne nje shtepi trekateshe qe ndryshonte me stinet... Nje shtepi e madhe, gjithmone i jep hapesire me te madhe mendimeve." E pikerisht ne ate "shtepi te madhe", midis atyre "mendimeve te medha", ne ate "femijeri te lunmtur" e ka origjinen e tij romani "Kronike ne Gur, e po ashtu edhe "Pallati i Endrrave", e shume subjekte te tjera te veprave te Kadarese. Pra cdo gje ka kaluar ne ato ujdhesa te padukeshme nentokesore qe bulerojne e hulumtojne thellesine e tij njerezore. E cdo njeri nga ne perpiqet te kapertheje ne mendjen, gjykimin, fantazine e tij modeste, se si e pse nje numer i heronjve te tij jane ca enderrues eremite, qe pothuajse vite te tera e ndoshta perjetesisht i kalojne te strukur si krisalide, ne ate gjendje te paforme e te erret vetmije. Ne heshtje, e ne ate frike shpesh hipokondria te sulmon, nje pesimizem mistik per vdekjen te pushton, nje frike e pashpjegueshme here prej vetes e here prej botes, nje tmerr i pafund i kaosit te shpirtit te trazuar. vazhdon... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From PimSem at aol.com Fri Jun 23 22:52:34 2000 From: PimSem at aol.com (PimSem at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:52:34 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] law student looking for job Message-ID: <76.7d17ae.26857c72@aol.com> Une jam e interesuar. semi From VKALAJA at aol.com Sat Jun 24 09:14:25 2000 From: VKALAJA at aol.com (VKALAJA at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:14:25 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Si mendoni? Message-ID: Desha te shfaqja disa mendime mbi ato qe tregon Genc Baki, per nje serbe te mire dhe te sjellshme... Jane te bukura ndjenjat e miqesise mbarenjerezore. Nje serbe ofron nje bisede telefonike ne celularin e saj dhe ne I bejme asaj nje poezi. Me kete duam te tregojme se ne jemi te gjere, falim. Dhe bile ftojme edhe shqiptaret e tjere qe ta shohin afersine me serbet , gjere e me tolerance. Pasi keshtu e do edhe komuniteti nderkombetar? Ne vend qe te jete shenje kulture dhe emancipimi, kjo eshte ne rradhe te pare shenje e nje dobesie te thelle. Dje me dt 23 qershor, nje vit e ca pas ofensives masakruese serbe, ne afersi te Gjakoves, u zbulua nje varr tjeter masiv me 90 kufoma shqiptaresh. Specialistet e Hages deklaruan dje se jane per t'u hapur edhe 300 gropa te perbashketa, te tjera, vendet e te cilave jane identifikuar. Keta shqiptare te vrare e te varrosur tok me gra burra e femije jane rezultat i nje kulture fqinje qe ka gjeneruar e gjeneron urrejtje qe vret, therr dhe mbyt. Gjithe keto kufoma natyrisht nuk i ka vrare e varrosur ajo, Maja me celular, bile ajo mund te mos kete vrare asnje! Por ama as Milloshevici nuk i ka vrare! Ato i kane bere SERBET, si kategori si komb. Ne jemi ne armiqesi me kombin serb. Jemi ne gjak me ta. Keto nuk jane instikte te pakrehura qe vine nga thellesite e shekujve por nga thellesite e arsyes njerezore. NE DO TE FILLOJME TE KONSIDEROJME BASHKJETESEN ME SERBET KUR ATA NE MENYRE MASIVE TE KERKOJNE FALJE APO TE SHKRUAJNE ME ZEMERIM E TE DENOJNE MASAKRAT MBI SHQIPTARET. DERI TANI ATA NUK E KANE BERE KETE, AS NE MASE AS INDIVIDUALISHT. Prandaj ftesat e miqve tane nderkombetare qe duan qetesi (sa bile te mos degjohen as te qarat mbi te vraret), nuk do t'i degjojme. Bile kercenimet me epitetet "fashist", qe perdorin sherbetoret e tipit Surroi, duhen flakur tej me perbuzje. Si mund te falet nje njeri qe nuk ka kerkuar falje?!!! Eshte zvetenim moral, zbruqje e virtuteve te larta te dikurshme, ky vrapimi per te falur, vrapimi per te bere poezi mbi bashkjetesen me serbet! Ju nuk keni asnje te masakruar ne familjen tuaj. Dhe me sa duket as imagjinate... Historia juaj me Majen qe kish celular nuk kishte asgje te keqe, me qe ka ndodhur ashtu. Ju perse na e tregoni? Perse e shkruani? Morali qe nxirrni ju dhe pyetjet qe na beni ne fund te shkrimit jane nje flligeshtim i mjere! VIktor Kalaja From olsi77 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 24 10:45:05 2000 From: olsi77 at hotmail.com (Olsi .) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:45:05 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendojme? Message-ID: <20000624144505.80958.qmail@hotmail.com> Te nderuar! Per disa persona, fryma ksenofobe qe disa shoqeri njerezore merr ne raste lufte, shihet si njefare fashizmi, absurditeti apo anti-humanizmi. Ne keto raste, kur turrmat njerezore, te revoltuara nga krimet barbare qe nje grup human ia ka bere tjetrit, i vetmi akt qe mund ti uli ato turrma eshte hakmarrje / drejtesi. Megjithate, ne mesin e ketyre turrmave te vuajtura ne cdo kohe, ekzistojne edhe disa individe qe per keto realitete jane "te huaj", "ALIEN" , pasiqe me ate qe nga shoqeria ne fjale e sheh si "EVIL" te keqe, per keta individe te tjere, ky "EVIL" nuk ka ndonje sens, pasiqe keta persona: a) nuk e njohin te keqen e tij, b) kane jetuar ne lluks si zagare e langoje te kesaj poshtersie. Keshtuqe sot e kesaj dite mes Shqiptareve ka shume "pacifiste" tip majmune si inferioiret e rritur - Surroi i kosoves, qe sjelljen dhe kerkesen per hakmarrje nga populli Shqiptar i Kosoves e shohin si "nazizem" ??? Po, eshte e vertete qe mes Serbeve ka njerez te mire, sic eshte edhe e vertete qe mes Shqiptareve ka njerez te keqinje, por lufta eshte lufte... Ne lufte nuk ka te mire e te keqinje, nuk ka te bardhe e te zinje, por ka kende ne te cilat rracat njerezore grupohen dhe ne mendjet e tyre ata krijojne idete "NE" dhe "ATA"... ku te dy grupacionet luftojne per MBIJETESE. Kjo veti njerezore, shume mire shprehet edhe ne shkrimet Bibliko - Kuranore, ku Bibla tregon se kur 2 popuj jane ne lufte edhe fete e tyre jane ne lufte, e ku Kurani flet te peraferten. Po a duhet qe ne te kemi meshire ndaj Serbeve? Ne pozita individuale edhe mundet qe ne te kemi miqesi me Serbet nese ata nuk jane Serbe, por jo me ate popull... Jo me ideologjine e tij, jo me kulturen dhe Historine e tij, te cilen me paturpesine me te madhe, frankofili Ismail Kadare ma lavderon. Jo, Shqiptaret e Serbet jane armiq te perjetshem. Kjo nuk eshte pse Shqiptaret e duan kete por se: 1. Serbet jane barbar, mizor dhe me objektiva shfarrosese per kombin Shqiptar 2. Serbet kane nje fe e cila synon zhdukjen e fese dhe te rraces Shqiptare. 3. Serbet jane armiq te betuar te Shqiptareve, ashtu sic jane edhe Greket... qe vijne nga historia e shkojne deri ne diten kur: a) Serbo - Greket dhe kisha e tyre, do te zhdukin kombin Shqiptar b) Shqiptaret me aleatet e tyre, apo nese Evropa do ti lejoje 7.000.000 Shqiptaret qe te krijojne RAJHUN e tyre, te vendosin BALANCE OF POWER ne Ballkan apo te kene Serbet dhe Greket nen pushtetin e tyre direkt ... apo indirekt sic ndodhi ne disa periudha te sundimit Osman ne Shqiperi. Per ata qe nuk kane jetuar nen pushtetin Sllavo-Ortodokso-Grek, ndonjehere shkrimet e shume Shqiptareve do te duken si "naziste"... por nese ata do te jetojne vetem per nje periudhe te shkurter nen ate tirani "YOKE" Bizantine, atehere, e vetem atehere ata do ta arrine qe ta kuptojne se: a) Kush jane Serbo-Greket per Shqiptaret b) Kush eshte kuptimi i kultures, fese dhe shtetit per Shqiptaret. Femijet si Surroi, Kadare etj... qe ne njeren menyre apo tjetren lavderojne kulturen/ historine Serbe, qe "qajne" me lot krokodili per fitoren e Osmanllive dhe clirimin qe ata i ben Kosoves nga Shqahu, dhe qe duan qe te ngjallin heronje me nena sllave mes Shqiptareve, qe vullnetin e Shqiptareve per te shporrur zgjedhen Sllave dhe sllavofile e shohin si "nazizem" etj... i vetmi rast i mire qe mund ti mesoje ata se kjo gje eshte e drejte, eshte HISTORIA E HEBREJVE dhe sjellja e tyre pas luftes se II boterore kunder Gjermaneve... sjellje qe vazhdon edhe sot e kesaj dite (une nuk po marr 'sides' ketu). Per kete Surroistat mund te pyesin me mire padronin e tyre Xhorxh Sorros, se cili eshte shkaku qe edhe sot e kesaj dite cifutet ane e mbane botes targetojne kompanite Gjermane per kompensime sikur ti kene te babes se tyre :) Kurse nje grup tjeter ne shoqerine Shqiptare qe nuk eshte i kenaqur me sjelljen e Shqiptareve ndaj Serbeve, pasiqe ata vete kane lidhje gjaku (dhe ne raste fetare) me ata (edhe pse mbajne pashaporta Shqiptare)... ceshtja e tyre eshte e qarte, sic ishte e qarte kolona e 5te e Frankos ne Spanje... te fala Olsi ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From FSaqellari at aol.com Sat Jun 24 11:57:17 2000 From: FSaqellari at aol.com (FSaqellari at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:57:17 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Re: Si mendoni? Message-ID: if it is for me............... i wont like to be friend to a serb ..... maybe to bulgarians rumanians polish rusians but never to serbians............... florean saqellari From olsi77 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 24 10:08:57 2000 From: olsi77 at hotmail.com (Olsi .) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:08:57 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Fwd: PERDORIMI I DUHANIT?! Message-ID: <20000624140857.25872.qmail@hotmail.com> From: To: alb-muslimstudents at egroups.com Date: Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:02pm Subject: PERDORIMI I DUHANIT?! PERDORIMI I DUHANIT Shumica e atyre q? e pijn? duhanin, pak e besojn? se bota civilizuese para pak koh?sh, ka mundur t? jetoj? pa p?rdorimin e tij. Duhani ka ardh? n? Europ?, tek mbas zbulimit t? Amerik?s, dhe n? fillim p?rdorimi i tij ishte n? form? p?rtypjeje. Kolomboja dhe p?rcjell?sit e tij, as nuk e kan menduar se vet?m prej atyre far?ve t? duhanit q? ua dhan? indian?t e Amerik?s, do t? b?het kjo q? u b? dhe do t? shtohet aq shum?, sa do t? b?het si epsh i bot?s s? shekullit XX. Nuk kan kaluar as nj?qind vjet? nga paraqitja e cigares s? par?, e q? ve? e ka pushtuar globin tok?sor?. Esht? p?rdorur edhe m? par? me an?n e llull?s, por n? nj? sasi shum? t? vog?l se po p?rdoret sot. LLogaritet se sot, gati ?do i dyti banor? i rruzullit tok?sor? (t? mosh?s madhore) e p?rdorin duhanin. Cigarja n? goj?, ose n? mesin e gisht?rinjve, ka qen? para gjys?m shekulli sjellje armiq?sore e shpesh edhe i ndaluar (me ligj). Sot ajo e ka fituar t? drejt?n e jet?s n? mas?n ma t? gj?r? t? bot?s. P?rdorimi (pimja) e duhanit dikur? shum? ka qen? i ndaluar dhe p?rdoruesit e tij kan qen? t? d?nuar. Papa urban VIII i ka d?nuar n? shekullin 17 me p?rjashtim nga kisha, inkuizicjon me ndezje n? turr? t? druve; Sulltan Murati i IV me t? rrasur n? hu; perandori rus Mihailo me rrahje me shkop...Me rastin e zhvillimit t? shpejt? t? mardh?njeve ekonomike kane paraqitur mundsi t? shumta p?r t? fituar me k?t bar (duhan) aq t? d?msh?m, dhe p?rdorimi i duhanit jo q? asht lejue t? perdoret por asht ba edhe monopol shtetror?. N? disa qindra p?rb?rje, t? cilat kimist?t i gjet?n n? cigare, si dhe studiuesit medicional, p?rb?rjet m? t? r?nd?sishme (negative) jan?: nikotini, Katrani dhe monoksidi i th?ngjillit.N? cigare ka 2% nikotin, por p?r fat n? organiz?m ndalet nj? sasi shum? e vog?l. Themi p?r fat t? mir?, sepse nikotini ?sht? helm shum? i rreziksh?m nervor. Vet?m nj? pik? e nikotinit (50 mg) paraqet doz?n e vdekjes p?r ata q? nuk e pijn? duhanin. Nj? cigare n? vehte p?rmban 1-3 mg nikotin gj? q? mvaret prej llojit t? duhanit. Doza ditore prej kat?rdhjet cigaresh, kur ?sht? n? pyetje gruaja shtatz?n?, rrjellon vdekjen e frytit t? saj t? palindur. Katrani ?sht? produkt i destilimit t? that? procesi i s? cil?s, paraqitet n? temperatur?n prej 600`C, e cila zhvillohet me rastin e ndezjes (n? majen) e cigares. Kush e pin duhanin 20 vjet? nga 20 cigare n? dit?, thith? rreth 6 kg ?agj? ecila shtron n? sip?rfaqe t? m?l?is?. Monoksidi i th?ngjilit, shkaktohet at?her? kur ndezja e cigares nuk b?het plot?sisht. Esht? helm i rrezikshem i gjakut, icili nd?rpret mund?sin? p?r t? sjell? oksigjenin. Pimja e 20 cigareve n? dit?, shkakton humbjen prej 5% homoglobin?s. Ky zvoglim i oksigjenit n? organiz?m, zvoglon fuqin? punuese (aft?sin?) aq sa njeriu b?n pun?n e tij 2300 m n? nivelin mbidetar?. Sipas disa statistikave thuhet:P?rdoruesi duhanit icili fillon ta pij? n? moshen 25 vje?are dhe icili vazhdimisht pin nga 40 cigare n? dit?, jeton 8 vjet? m? pak se ai icili nuk e pin duhanin. N? mosh?n 85 vje?are, do t? arrijn? vet?m 19,2% q? nuk e pijn? duhanin. Aj q? heret fillon ta pij? duhanin, ai edhe heret do t? vdes?.T? dh?na t? tilla na jep edhe komisioni i mjek?sis? Britaneze "Roy Al College of Physicians 1962". Sipas k?tij komisioni ?sht? th?n? se duhani ?sht? armiku m? i madh i t?r? njerzimit. Prej 20 t? s?mur?ve nga kanceri, vet?m nj?ri ?sht? q? nuk e p?rdor? duhanin, por edhe ai thith? tymin e duhanit sepse ?sht? n? kontakte t? shumta me ata q? e pijn? duhanin... Cdo i gjashti person, p?rdorues i duhanit, vdes nga kjo s?mundje e tmerrshme. Katrani i duhanit, icili sa p?r prov? qitet n? l?kur?n e minit, b?het shkak i vdekjes n? 90% t? rasteve. Megjithate b?het e njohur se kancerin nuk e fitojn? t? gjith p?rdoruesit e duhanit, por mesiguri ekziston edhe ndonj? arsye tjet?r deri tani e panjohur. N?se u besojm? statistikave, p?rdorimi i duhanit konsiderohet tragjedia m? e madhe bortrore. Kjo nuk ?sht? nj? loj? me an?n e s? cil?s mund t? humbasish nj? sasi t? caktuar pasurie ose t?r? pasurin?, por ?sht? loj? me jet?n e vet. Sikur p?rdoruesit e duhanit t? ishin prezent dhe ta kuptonin nj? vdekje t? till?, ose sikur ai t? mund ta shihte m?l?in e vet, mesiguri se kishte me u lirue nga ai ves i mbrapsht?. Dikur KUGA, ishte shkaku m? i madh i vdekjes, pastaj lajmrohet tuberkolozi... k?shtu me radh?, statistikat gjithashtu tregojn? p?r vdekjet e hershme (te moshave n?n pesdhjet? vje?are) nga Infrakti. Prej 20 personave t? cil?t infraktohen, 19 jan? p?rdorues t? duhanit. (Heglin CiriX). Prej 205 t? infraktuarve para mosh?s 44 vje?are, jan? vet?m dy q? nuk e pijn? duhanin (klinika e Hamburgut EPENDORF). Nuk ka asnj? organ n? trupin e njeriut, e q? duhani t? mos ndikoj? negativisht. Por pasijat m? t? m?dha, i kan? organet e frym?marrjes. Mushk?rit? e nj? njeriu tridhjet vje?? icili e pin duhanin jan? t? nj?jta me mushk?rit? e nj? njeriu t? mosh?s 50 vje?are q? nuk e pin duhanin. Aft?sia e fuqis? fizike, humbet, b?het e pathyeshme. Krahas kancerit, infraktit, bronhitistit... ekzistojn? edhe disa s?mundje tjera lokale. - P?rdorimi i duhanit zvoglon t? pamunit, p?r k?t? arsye edhe pilotave ushtarak amerikan, n? koh?n e fluturimeve t? nat?s, u ?sht? e ndaluar pimja e duhanit. - PImja e duhanit t? shpie n? impotencim (Enciklopedia mjek?sore Zagreb) sepse 45% t? njer?zve q? e pijn? duhanin, nuk kan f?mij? (Bernhard). - Duhani negativisht ndikon n? zorr?. - Prej 200 njer?zve t? s?mur? nga raku n? girgilan, vet?m nj?ri ?sht? ai q? nuk e pin duhanin. - P?rdorimi i duhanit ndikon edhe te diabitisi po edhe n? tensionin e lart? t? gjakut. - L?kura e njeriut 40 vje?ar? icili e pin duhanin, ?sht? e ngjajshme me njeriun e mosh?s 60 vje?are q? nuk e pin duhanin. - Njeriu q? e pin duhanin trurin e ka m? t? dob?t, prandaj n? t? shumt?n e rasteve, studentat q? e pijn? duhanin jan? m? t? dob?t. Duhani p?rmban helme t? shumta, nd?r t? cilat, m? t? rrezikshmet jan?: avulli i katranit, monoksidi i karbonit, nikotini etj. Pirja e duhanit konsiderohet nd?r helmet m? t? rezikshme. Ajo shkakton rritjen e numrit t? rrahjes s? zemr?s dhe e shkatrona at?. Sikur t'i jepen kat?r (4) pika nikotin nj? lepuri, do ta mbytnin, nd?rsa njeriun do ta mbytnin 60 mgr. - Pirja e 20 cigareve n? dit?, e pengon trupin e njeriut nga fitimi i 15% t? hemoglobin?s, ecila ?sht? l?nda kryesore p?r formimin e rruzave t? kuqe t? gjakut. - Personi i cili pin duhan ?sht? i rrezikuar nga s?mundja e kancerit t? buz?ve, goj?s, laringut, gabzherrit dhe mushk?rive. - Duhanxhiut poashtu i ekspozohet arterioskleroz?s n? trup, ve??narisht n? arterjet e zemr?s apo t? trurit icili shkakton vdekjen e papritur apo paralizimin. - Duhanxhiu i ekspozohet edhe kalljes kronike t? hund?s e t? goj?s, fytit, laringut, gabzherit, dhe mushk?rive (pneumonia) e kjo shkakton v?sht?rsimin e frym?marrjes dhe t? kollitjes kronike. - T? pirit e duhanit shkakton dob?simin e oreksit p?r ushqim, pastaj kalljen kronike n? mukoz? t? stomakut, e ndonj?her? ndihmon edhe formimin e t? thatit (?ibanit) n? shtomak. - Pirja e duhanit shkakton dob?simin e aft?sis? seksuale, nga ndikimi i d?msh?m q? b?het n? qendrat nervore, t? cilat e rregullojn? procesin seksual. - Duhani ?sht? shkak i humbjes s? fuqis? (aft?sis?) trupore. Duhanxhiu i ekspozohet lodhjes s? shpejt. Ajo ndikon negativisht edhe n? aft?sit? e t? menduarit, andaj edhe nx?n?sit e shkollave t? larta jan? m? t? dob?t ata q? e pijn? duhanin. - N?se pin duhan n?na shtatz?n?, shkakton prapambetejen metale t? f?mij?s dhe b?n ?rregullime trupore t? embrionit, ngase nikotini mbartet me thithjen e qumshtit. Nuk kemi ndonj? tekst Kur'nor? po as n? synet t? pejgamberit, icili drejt? p?r s? drejti ndalon p?rdorimin e duhanit. Kjo ?sht? shkak q? disa duhanxhij t? thon? se pirja e duhanit nuk ?sht? haram. Mir?po, kjo ?sht? p?r shkak t? mosnjohjes s? sherjatit Islam, gjat spjegimit t? hallallit dhe t? haramit. Q?ndrimi ndaj duhanit dihet nga rregullat dhe tekstet e p?rgjithshme, andaj t? k?rkosh argument t? ve?ant? q? ndalon p?rdorimin e duhanit ?sht? kok?fort?si, t? cil?n nuk e pranon feja as logjika, p?r arsye se n? koh?n e Pejgamberit duhani nuk ?sht? p?rdor?. Ai i cili v?ren me kujdes rregullat e sherjatit Islam, sheh dhe kupton qart? se pirja e duhanit dhe tregtia me t? ?sht? haram p?r shkaqet dhe arsyet q? vijojn?: 1. Esht? tep?r i d?msh?m p?r sh?ndet, p?r arsye se t? sjell n? prak t? vdekjes. K?tu, pasiq? jemi t? bindur se ?sht? k?shtu, kemi ball? p?r ball? ajetin Kur'anor?: "dhe mos e mbyteni vehten (as nj?rit - jetrin)! Allahu ndaj jush ?sht? shum? i m?shirsh?m". (IV:29) Ose ajeti tjet?r: "...por vehten mos e ?oni n? shatrrim" (II:195). Ruajtja e vetvehtes ?sht? nj?ra prej pes? domosdoshm?rive p?r t? cilat pajtohen t? gjitha sherjatet. 2. D?met nga pirja e duhanit, nuk p?rq?ndrohen vet?m n? smundje t? p?rdoruesit, por ato kalojn? edhe tek antar?t e tjer? t? familjes dhe t? njerzimit q? rrijn? me t?. Ajri t? cilin duhanxhiu e qet ?sht? me pasoja t? d?mshme me p?r njerzit q? rrijn? p?r-rreth. T? gjith dijet?rt e sherjatit jan kompakt dhe thon? se "Nuk guxohet t'i b?het kurrfar d?mi askujt (as vetvehtes)", d?mi duhet t? evitohet. 3. D?met nga p?rdorimi i duhanit shkaktojn? edhe dob?si mentale, sepse ajo zvoglon forc?n e koncentrimit. K?to v?rehen tek duhanxhiu vet?m n? faz?n p?rfundimtare. Mbrojtja e mendjes ?sht? ?sht? nj?ra prej 5 domosdoshm?rive mbi domosdon? e ruajtjes s? t? cilave jan? kompakte t? gjitha sherjatet. 4. Duhanxhiu shopenzon pasurin?, ajo ?sht? baz? e jet?s. Me t? Allahu ka begatuar gjinin njerzore dhe ua ka caktue rrug?n e shpenzimit t? saj. Andaj besimtari pasurin? e tij duhat ta harxhoj? vet?m atu ku e ka urdh?ruar All-llahu. E Allahu thot?: "...Jepnu nga pasuria q? ua ka dh?n? juve All-llahu..." (Nur?:33). K?shtu njeriu do t? jap? dhogari p?r pasurin? e tij dit?n e gjykimit. Transmeton Tirmidhiu se Muhamedi n? nj? rast ka th?n? "Asnj? njeri dit?n e gjykimit nuk do t? l?viz? nga vendi, p?rderisa t? mos jap? llogari dhe t? mos p?rgjigjet n? kat?r pyetje - N? ?ka e ka harxhe rinin? e tij, - N? ?ka e ka kaluar jet?n e tij, - P?r diturin? e tij dhe ?ka ka punuar me t?, - P?r pasurin? e tij prej nga e ka fituar dhe ku e ka shpenzuar..." Prandaj shpenzimi i pasuris? n? blerjen e duhanit, ?sht? humbje e pasuris? aty ku nuk ka dobi. 5. Duhani ?sht? i d?msh?m p?r pasardh?sit, nga n?nat q? e pijn? duhanin gjat? shtatzanis?. Nd?rkaq mbrojtja e pasardh?sve nga gj?rat e d?mshme ?sht? ?sht? detyrijm fetar? i parapar? nga ana prindore. 6. Duhani ?sht? nj?ra prej gj?rave t? k?qia, andaj gj?rat e k?qija Zoti na i ka ndaluar me an?n e ajetit Kur'anor? (shih kaptin?n El-A`raf n? ajetin 157). 7. Duhani ?sht? prej narkotik?ve, kurse i d?rguari i Allahut ka ndaluar ?do pije deh?se dhe narkotike n? hadithin t? cilin e transmeton Imam Ahmedi dhe t? tjer?t. 8. P?rdorimi i duhanit, duhanxhiun e shtyn? q? ti urrej? disa ibadete fetare e ve?mas agj?rimin e ramazanit. Nganj?her? disa njer?z e kan lan? agj?rimin e ramazanit p?r shkak t? pirjes s? duhanit. N?se vet?m nj?ra nga k?to tet? arsye gjendet tekkjo veti e sh?mtuar, at?her? nuk do mend se duhani ?sht? HARAM. Disa hulumtues t? psikologjis? kan v?rejt? se duhanxhiu ?sht? person i shqet?suar, andaj ky shqet?sim e shtyn? ate t? fus? duhanin n? goj?, p?r t? ndier nj? k?naq?si. N?se nj?ri nga prind?rit pijn? duhan, at?her? f?mij?t p?rpiq?n q? ti emitojn? prind?rit e vet.Brez?t e ri pijn? duhan sepse ata p?rpiqen ta v?rtetojn? burr?rin? e tyre, duke emituar k?shtu disa personalitete t? m?dha t? cil?t pijn? duhan. B?hu shembull i mir? p?r f?mij?t apo nx?n?sit tu, menj?her? l?re duhanin dhe mos e p?rdor m? kurr?. Duhet t? ngritet vet?dija e f?mij?s p?r rrezikun e p?rdorimit t? duhanit. N?se don ta l?sh duhanin, k?rko s? pari ndihm?n e All-llahut, jepja bes?n vet?vehtes p?r forcimin e vullnetit dhe vendos menj?her? e p?rfundimisht p?r nd?rprerjen e p?rdorimit t? duhanit. Do t? jet? m? leht? t? vendoset nj? gj? e till? n?se shpesh i kujtojm? rreziqet q? mund t? na vijn? prej tij. Menj?her? ndaju prej shoq?ris? q? pin duhan dhe mos rri n? mesin e duhanxhnjve. Puno n? forcimin e vullnetit me p?rkujtimin e m?simeve Islame duke u larguar nga gj?rat t? cilat e d?mtojn? njeriun. N? baz? t? nj? emisioni televiziv, n? 25 vjet?t vijuese n? bot?, nga pasojat e duhanit do t? vdesin 500 milion njer?z. Kjo ?sht? e pakrahasueshme nga numri i njerzve t? cil?t jan vrar? nga luftrat e gjertanishme. K?t? e them p?r shkak t? atyre musliman?ve t? cil?t duan t? pranojn? k?shill?, t? cil?t nuk jan? kok?fort? dhe t? cil?t thon? se duhani si haram nuk ?sht? i cekur as n? Kur'an as n? hadith?. As droga nuk ?sht? e cekur n? Kur'an, por pa dyshim t? gjith pajtohemi se ?sht? haram. Duhani, pra zhduk? m? shum? njer?z, sesa droga, vet?mse droga vepron m? shpejt, e duhani e infekton organizmin t?r? jet?n, e mbi t? gjitha k?to t?r? familja e paguan ?mimin e dob?sis? suaj. P?r k?t?, ju o musliman, q? d?shironi vet?m t? flisni, l?nije duhanin sepse ithtar?t e disa religjioneve tjera, kaher? e kan l?n? duhanin, n? vend q? t? zhvillojn? diskutime t? gjata e shterpe rreth duhanit. (Preporod 11/90) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dstenia at yahoo.com Sat Jun 24 13:13:27 2000 From: dstenia at yahoo.com (Dalant Stenia) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Alb-club] LONE NAVIGATOR! Message-ID: <20000624171327.20049.qmail@web4204.mail.yahoo.com> Pershendetje o liste e heshtur, E tha mire nje nga ata djemte e listes (me fal qe nuk ta mbaj mend emrin) qe nga 400 e kusur veta vetem dy tre jane violina (apo ndoshta daulle) te para e te tjeret vetem spektatore. Sot qe ne mengjes po check-oj e-mail-in dhe askush nuk shkruan per asgje. Nuk besoj qe te mos kemi asgje me vlere per te thene, mbi gjerat e botes. Besoj se duke qene se eshte koha e provimeve apo e plazhit, internetit e listes i ka rene vlera. OK, e mbylla se ndoshta jam bere i besdisur duke shkruar kaq shpesh. do te degjohemi andej nga java e pare e Korrikut. Dua "te degjoj" ca mesazhe te reja nga njerez qe nuk kane shkruar me pare, e prandaj une po bej nje periudhe pushimi. Best, DStenia P.S. Be brave to say today what you think. Tomorrow you might not be able to think anymore. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From kbejko at hotmail.com Sat Jun 24 16:13:06 2000 From: kbejko at hotmail.com (Kreshnik Bejko) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:13:06 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendojme? Message-ID: <20000624201306.60978.qmail@hotmail.com> Olsi shkroi: >Kjo veti njerezore, shume mire shprehet edhe ne shkrimet Bibliko - > >Kuranore, ku Bibla tregon se kur 2 popuj jane ne lufte edhe fete e >tyre >jane ne lufte, e ku Kurani flet te peraferten. O Olsi, kur argumenton per dicka mbaj parasysh audiencen. Ne kete rast audienca nuk e can koken shume se c'thote Bibla e Kurani. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From shqiponja at gmx.de Sat Jun 24 15:18:50 2000 From: shqiponja at gmx.de (Ketri) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:18:50 +0200 Subject: [Alb-club] Nacionalizmi. Message-ID: <002e01bfde11$a3dad0a0$88db9b3e@cyborg> Juded nuk i kane falur dhe sot e ksaj dite gjermaneve, ndersa ne behemi shpirtmedhenj migjithse na moren Kosoven dhe vrane vllezerit dhe motrat tona ne Kosove. Kujt i kane vrare vllain i kane perdhunuar motren ai ska per te falur ne asnje menyre!!!!!! Nuk po them qe serbet jane te gjith vrasesa, por ata jane gjithmon si ai gjarpri qe fshatari e gjeti te ngrire ne are dhe e futi ne shpi sa shkriu u mundua ta kafshonte fshatarin. Armiku ngelet armik. Mbi Judet kam rrespektin me te madh. Ne mes te armiqve dhe terrorristave formuan shtetin e tyre. !!!!!!!! Kur populli serb sna ka dashur asnjeher, pse neve ti duam. Populli Serb as e cau koken per Kosoven dhe per Kosovaret qe vdisnin neper burgje. Mos u beni naiv. Rrini vigjilente dhe behuni te zgjuar. !!!!!!!!!!!!! Vetem nje nacionalizem i forte, ai do na mblidhte dhe do na bente te forte. Asnjehere percarja. Kaq mendimi im. -------------- next part -------------- HTML attachment scrubbed and removed From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:36:04 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:36:04 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] greku dhe serbi pjesa 2 Message-ID: In addition of being introduced to that religion, were also introduced to the hate towards the Latin Church of the Pope and more in general to everything else representing that time the West. A hate, that will be carried all the way to our days, reminder not so much of political differentiations but of Religious manipulations. Politics were later much later introduced into the lives of the simple peasants of Slav origins that arrived in the Greek Peninsula mostrly searching for work rather than as conquerors. Relations with Byzantium were mostly in good terms especially during the period of the first Autochthon Patriarch of theirs and later St. Savvas, while during the years of the Dussan reigning we have the first treaty between the Slav Serbs and the Empire. And yet once the instructions were given for the populations in the western parts of the empire to learn the Gospel in the Slav language, their intentions were changed. They became the ones that at any occassion will try to get another piece of Hellenian land, a little farther to the South. Byzantium's last Emperor had Serbian blood running in his vains from his mother Eirhnh, daughter of Konstantine Dragasis, Serbian chieftain in the lands around the Axios river. Greek princesses were the Queens of Serbia and Bosnia right before the Ottoman arrival in the Kosovo lands and above them. Just to show you some of the connections among the people. In 1804 time arrives for the Serbs to seek independence and ask the Greeks for help. Nikotsaras, Georgakis Olympios, Rodofoinikhs, and Konstantinos Ypsilantis and many others most of them VLACHS, arrived to assist them. Karageorgis one of their leaders promised in 1817 for himself and for the Serbian Nation eternal friendship towards the Hellenic Nation. We on the other hand, once we created the Greek Kingdom busy with the "Megalh Idea" completely forgot the Serbs, trying to understand what was going on in Europe. We did have some good chances in 1861 and 1866 to create better relations with them, things thought didn't work out during the revolution in Herzegovina, or during the signing in Voeslau on August 14th 1867 of the Alliance Treaty. Matter of fact after that signing, Serbia became part of Greece's ""Slav Enemies"" for most of the Greeks, with the exeption of Trikoupis seeking a collaboration with the Slavs of the Austrian-Hungarian empire against the Ottoman one, a notion that few other Greek Polticians will share in the near future. Trikoupis was considering a National Action to the South of the line running from Durres to Axrida, to Monastiri, to Serres practically South to the Northernmost boundaries of Ancient Makedonia, a line that is pretty close to that of Jirecek. From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:30:49 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:30:49 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] degjoni se c`thote nje greko-vllah Message-ID: Good evening to all Since among us still are existing incorrigible, unrepentant, and politically uneducated, perpetuant believers of the false notion of Panslavic Supremacy, having as leaders the Orthodox Russia, and as docile puppy the Serbian nation, and since every other month we have few nostalgic supporters of that lost Panslavic supremacy coming into our boards praising and glorifying the lost Orthodox Empire, inciting, pledging and at times promising collaboration with Serbia, I decided to post a short History of the REAL relations between us and the Serbians. Not so much among our people, but among our goverments. I do believe that the notion existing that the Serbs were always our friends and allies is a false one and a result of the Anti-Americanism or for better Anti-USA sentiments around the world, combined with notes of past dreams of grandeur for the creation of a Panslavic Orthodox Empire which will include Greece. These dreamers must realize that the Byzantine Empire with it's Patriarchical Orthodoxy, a remnat of the old ARAMEAN carriers of that religion into our lands, that attempted to cover their roots renaming themselves as ROMIOI, very sheldom if ever helped Hellenism, let alone fight in favor of it. It couldn't be different this time, no matter what kind of Orthodox Empire we are talking about, it couldn't be different with Russia ahead, it couldn't be possible collaborating with Serbia, a country with which for centuries we are neighbors, a country that for centuries had been looking and attempting the annihilation and complete destruction of Greece and Hellenism. The Serbs were NEVER our friends, and ALWAYS were working AGAINST our National interests, they are not going to change now, and like their cousins the BULGARS and the RUSSIANS, in their minds have one and only one primary objective, that of raising their flag atop of THESSALONIKI'S White Tower. My notes are taken from several books, including those of Kyrou, Modis, Liakos and others. My recount is not aimed against the people of the land, but against its leaders, leaders like MILOSHEVIC the butcher of the Balkans, who's removal from power will be the ONLY way for the Serbs to become free again and work on new foundations regarding collaboration and good will with their neighbors, under a new way of thinking, for future improvements of their relations and acceptance of their hammered country in the arms of United Europe, rather than pursuing an unrealizable dream of Panslavic Orthodox Empire. And here a short History of the people, whom, because of their each time leaders, were and are posing a threat to our National security and Interests. The Serbs are part of the Slavs that originate in the PRIPETIAN marshes and moved Southward with the rest of the Slavic contingents, under the legs of the Avars, in the end of the 6th century. Emperor Herakleios placed them into the South of the river Danube lands as field workers and handymen, while the relations between them and the Empire were in good terms. It was the time when the Serbs were introduced to the Orthodox Religion brought from Jewdea by the ARAMEANS shortly to become ROMIOI. pjesa e pare---------------- kur greket zihen me serbet degjojme shume traktate te firmosura nga dy palet nen kurrizin e tokave Shqiptare . vijon ----------------- From Dritan68 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:02:15 2000 From: Dritan68 at aol.com (Dritan68 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:02:15 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendojme? Message-ID: <38.7add7e4.26867bd7@aol.com> In a message dated 6/24/00 3:42:43 PM Central Daylight Time, kbejko at hotmail.com writes: << Olsi shkroi: >Kjo veti njerezore, shume mire shprehet edhe ne shkrimet Bibliko - > >Kuranore, ku Bibla tregon se kur 2 popuj jane ne lufte edhe fete e >tyre >jane ne lufte, e ku Kurani flet te peraferten. >> A mund te na sqaroni se ne cilin varg te Bibles thuhet kjo qe pretendoni ju? Ne Bibel Jezu Krishti fali ata qe e rrahen dhe e varen ne kryq duke thene:"Fali o Ate, se nuk dine c'ka bejne", gjithashtu ne nje varg tjeter te Bibles thuhet"Hakmarrja eshte e imja -thote Perendia -une do t'ju shpaguaj ju" . "Let us not enjoy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of hatred and bitterness"-Martin Luther King From skerdi_s at hotmail.com Sat Jun 24 22:51:44 2000 From: skerdi_s at hotmail.com (Skerdi Shyti) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 02:51:44 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] The rated films Message-ID: <20000625025144.11477.qmail@hotmail.com> Te dashur miq, E kam shume te veshtire te kuptoj keto "ratings" qe bejne amerikanet per filmat. A ka ndonje qe te me shpjegoje cfare eshte rated "R", "G", PG-13" double feature, rated X etj etj. Me thoni ju lutem cfare do me thene sejcili nga inicialet ne menyre qe t'i mbaj mend. Ka rrezik qe te kem pare ndone film qe nuk eshte "rated" per mua dhe te mos e kem ditur. Asnjehere s'i kam kuptuar dhe kam harruar fare te pyes ata amerikanet qe kam ne pune megjithese s'besoj se i dine as ata se s'jane vecse kamariere te botes se trete si puna ime. Eshte nje film tani qe eshte rated G. Ta shoh apo mos ta shoh? :) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 18:15:08 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:15:08 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] moderatoreve Message-ID: meqe do te largohem me pushime mendova ti dergoj te gjithe pjeset e shkrimit te greko- vllahut sot . ju mund ti botoni nga 2-3 ne dite nese mendoni se per lexuesin do te jete shume material me respekte A .KUMI From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:46:56 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:46:56 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] kur zihet greku me serbin pj-4 Message-ID: Serbia was looking towards an exit in the Adriatic with a possible annexation or unification of Dalmatia, was looking for a possible use of the ports in what was later to become Albania, and was looking for the use of the port of Thessaloniki, or at least part of it as a free Serbian Zone. The first two objectives were almost unreachable due to the fact that the Great Powers were involved one way or another. So the Serbian Politicians turned all their attention to the latest objective, that of using Thessaloniki's port, adding matter of fact an article, article 7, in the alliance of June the 1st 1913. The non collaboration by the goverments of Zaimis and Skouloudis, drove Serbia into believing that Greece's collaboration wasn't needed anymore and that they could act against the territorial integrity of Greece. In Thessaloniki had already moved in the Serbian Parliament and also the city was the seat of the Serbian Field Commander, and when on May 26th 1916 we had the well know adventure in Roupel, the city of Thessaloniki almost..........almost became a SERBIAN one. Here comes the Ethnic Defence, and right away the revolution by Venizelos, Kountouriotis, Dagklis. A new era begins, there was not anymore even a remote possibility speaking of a Serbian Thessaloniki, especially after all those Serbian lands liberated by the Greeks. And yet............the SOLUN idea never got of the heads and dreams not only of the Serbs, but more in general of the Slavs and Panslavists. Not only this but when Greece ask for the RETURN of Monastiri, the town GIVEN to them almost as present, they kick back and they refuse to return it most likely as reprisals for the loss of Thessaloniki. It was the beginning of the Serbian Isolation, not only from Greece, but from the rest of the Balkan countries and of course from Italy and the other European countries. On May the 10th 1914 we signed an agreement regarding the ""Thru Thessaloniki Serbian Movement"", giving them part of our port for their use, however that agreement was signed BEFORE Serbia as part of Jugoslavia later had any access to the sea, any sea. On May the 10th 1923 a new agreement is signed regarding the port of Thessaloniki, and for reasons not very well understood yet, the Greek represenation is giving into the requests of the Serbian goverment and in such a way we have the creation of the ""Free Serbian Zone"". Two months later the Serbs were buying 77 kilometers of railway tracks all the way to SKOPIA, and on September 29th of the same year were signing a new agreement with many unspecified terms and conditions, meaning only one thing, more humiliating troubles for Greece in years to come. From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:40:25 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:40:25 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] kur zihet greku dhe serbi pjesa 3 Message-ID: <8e.6dccab7.268684c9@aol.com> In 1892 the Serbs with their Ambassador Vladan Djordjevie sent us their reply. The Serbs wanted for themselves the ENTIRE vilayets of Kosovo, and Monastiri including the Verati of Korytsa and Kastoria INCLUDING the Northern part of Thessaloniki's Vilayet all the way to Nevrokopi and Meleniko. Basically they were asking since 1892 the ENTIRE MAKEDONIA. And yet.............the Serbs were expecting from us to face the Bulgarian danger together! We didn't accept their proposals, and after that we got involved into that terrible adventure of 1897, after which and during the second face of the Makedonian struggle, we were almost pushed in partial collaboration with the Serbs against the Bulgars. We arrive in such way to the point of the Greek-Serbian alliance of 1913, and at the end of whatever existing friendship between the two countries, or for better between their goverments, in 1914. In 1913 we signed an alliance with the Serbs, an alliance that according to its terms in case of an Austrian attack against the Serbs ( and later a Bulgarian one) we should run into their help and defence. What was contained into that alliance and the spirit under which that alliance was signed were two different things, especially regarding article 1 and article 5 of such said alliance. When Austria attacked Serbia, under the written articles of the alliance, Greece should send 150,000 men to fight against the Austrians. However..............if we were to send 150,000 Greek Soldiers to help the Serbs, we were going to leave Thessaloniki open to anyones attacks and especially of course to the Bulgars who were included as ours and Serbian enemies, in that treaty of Alliance. And when in October 1915 the Bulgars attacked the Serbs from the back, the Serbs that were fighting against Makensen, Greece did NOT conform to the articles of the alliance. The Serbs of course could remember for ever such behavior by us and condemn us, however something strange took place. We were the first ones to recognize such a behavior and consequently create oun Ethnic Division that ultimately created Thessaloniki's Mutiny. We were expiated for the happenings during those three months from October to December of 1913, with the blood of our children in the battlefields of Skra and Doirani and the complete annihiliation of the German-Bulgarian lines in Makedonia and the liberation of the Serbian lands. And the old Serbs, inhabitants of those lands, seing and knowing what took place in there, appreciated the Greek efforts declaring eternal obligations towards Greece one more time. From AlbanaM at aol.com Sun Jun 25 09:43:23 2000 From: AlbanaM at aol.com (AlbanaM at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:43:23 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Sqarim per Skerdi Shytin lidhur me filmat ( Albana Lifschin) Message-ID: <4a.73b22c0.2687667b@aol.com> Po i bie shkurt: R = restricted to children under 17 years old. X = extensive violence or sexual scenes G = General audience means open to anyone PG 13 = Parental guidance for children under 13 ( prinderit u sugjerojne femijve te kesaj moshe, nese duhet pare apo jo ky apo a film ) From Voltro75 at aol.com Sun Jun 25 01:40:18 2000 From: Voltro75 at aol.com (Voltro75 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:40:18 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] NJOFTIM!!!!!The Detroit chapter presents the 54-th annual AANO, 2000 convention Message-ID: The Detroit Chapter Presents The 54-th Annual Albanian American National Organization 2000 Convention August 4, 5, 6 at The Ritz Carlton 300 TownCenter Drive Dearborn, MI 48126 (313)441-2000 Hotel reservations can be made by calling 1800-241-3333 Please state that you are with AANO convention to receive the discounted rate. Covention rates are guaranteed until 7/13/00 Hotel rates: $125.00 plus taxes/per night Tickets are: Adults: $76.00 members, Children: (under age 13) $35.00 $83.00 Non-members Early Bird Savings for tickets purchased before July 13: $73.00 member and $80.00 Non-member Price includes: Friday: Dance (Proper attire) After hrs Hospitality Suite & DJ Saturday: Dinner and dance (Proper evening attire) Albanian Entertainment. After hrs Hospitality Suite & DJ (Proceeds go to the AANO Scholarship Fund. Scholarship Awards for 2000 will be presented at Saturday's Diner.) *Albanian Artwork Display. All interested artists should contact Nancy Veliu at (248)-848-1945 Sunday Evening: Diamond Jack Detroit River Cruise $35.00 per person Horsd'ouevres, DJ, Dancing Cash Bar Please make checks payable to: 54th AANO Covention Daytime information contact: Rose Black (248) 625-0275 (Tickets must be paid in advance.) Rose Black 2551 Voorheis Waterford, MI 48328 Para se ta mbyll kete njoftim, ju lutemi mos nguroni te pyesni per sqarime. Me shkruani ne Voltro75 @aol.com ose telefononi Rosin tek numri i persiperm. Shpresoj te kalojme nje kohe te kendshme se bashku ketu ne Detroit! Me te mira! Voltisa From olsi77 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 25 04:05:38 2000 From: olsi77 at hotmail.com (Olsi .) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:05:38 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendojme? Message-ID: <20000625080538.9901.qmail@hotmail.com> << Olsi shkroi: >>Kjo veti njerezore, shume mire shprehet edhe ne shkrimet Bibliko - >> >Kuranore, ku Bibla tregon se kur 2 popuj jane ne lufte edhe fete e >> >tyre jane ne lufte, e ku Kurani flet te peraferten. >> >A mund te na sqaroni se ne cilin varg te Bibles thuhet kjo qe >pretendoni >ju? Ne Bibel Jezu Krishti fali ata qe e rrahen dhe e varen >ne kryq duke >thene:"Fali o Ate, se nuk dine c'ka bejne", gjithashtu ne >nje varg tjeter >te Bibles thuhet"Hakmarrja eshte e imja -thote >Perendia -une do t'ju >shpaguaj ju" . >"Let us not enjoy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of > >hatred and bitterness"-Martin Luther King Dritan! E kam njoh nje protestane qe me thoshte keshtu versetesh, por tashme nuk e di se ku ajo ndodhet... Megjithate gjeta dicka qe po ta sjell me poshte... dhe eshte 100 % e ditur se ne Kosove ata qe vrane Shqiptaret merrshin bekime nga bace Janulla i Tiranes, nga Artemija i Serbise dhe nga Priftucat Serb e Sllav te te gjithe botes... Eshte e ditur se edhe perpara PRESIONIT Perendimor, kisha e pushtuar nga Janullatosi ASNJEHERE nuk e denoi Serbin mizor ne Kosove, dhe asnjehere NUK E MBESHTETI NATO-n per nderhyrjen e saj ne Kosove, per te shpetuar FOSHNJET E KOSOVES, te cilat nen klithjet e Artemijes dhe Peshkopeve te tjere Serb po u MASAKRONIN per te shpetuar kishat Serbe???!!! Edhe pse ne nuk duam ta pranojme nje gje te tille, ajo eshte reale. Une vet kam marre shume e-maila nga Serb, Grek, Amerikane fanatike etc... sic edhe ne alb-net.com kane ardhur shume, qe shprehnin urrejtjen e tyre te thelle kunder Shqiptareve Musliman, e qe betoheshin ne kryq per kryqezaten e tyre kunder Shqiptareve... Per kete, referenca me e mire eshte vete Drashkovici Serb dhe punimet e tija, qe mbrojne kryqezaten Serbe ndaj Shqiptareve Musliman... qe ai u mundua tia shiste Evropes qe te gjente mbeshtetje per luften e tij. A thote Bibla keshtu apo jo, kjo eshte nje ceshtje e hapur ndaj manipulimit, por HISTORIA e atyre qe kane besuar ne Bibel e KA TREGUAR VETVETEN. Zoti te udhezofte! te fala Olsi me poshte verseti qe 'germova'... nuk duket edhe aq i forte :) And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation King James version, num.31: 27 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:16:39 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:16:39 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] po e perseris per ata qe se kane lexuar Message-ID: <7e.6b1c72f.26867f37@aol.com> Subj: atyre qe marrin kulture dhe nenvleresojne te tjerat Date: 3/24/00 To: alb-club at alb-net.com shume nga ne te emigruarit jashte vendit me deshiren per te kryer arritje me te medha ne cdo fushe si, profesionale, edukative , (me shume ata te vegjlit te cilet u larguan pa marre dhe mesimet e plota te edukates ne familje) kulturore eshpirterore gelltisim ka raste cfaredo qe naserviret ne kete pjese te botes ku sic dihetprinderit tane skishin aspak eksperience dhe si rrjedhoje ju paraqitem ketij realiteti me naivitetin me te madh.te arrish te kuptosh natyren dhe lartesine e ndjenjave njerezore te vendeve udheheqese ne ekonomi dhe te mundohesh ti a dhurosh vendit tend mendoj se eshte nje detyre fisnike.por ghithmone duhet te kuptojme se traseja per zhvillim nuk vjen duke injoruar faktin se keto vende vete e kane pasur te pa mundur te arrine ne kete lartesi pa marre parasysh lighet natyrore, te me pare sigurise per ekzistence ,mbijeteses dhe fitores mbi te kunderten gje qe historikisht eshte bere me lufte me gjak dhe sigurisht me shkelje te aspiratave te cilat sot jane tempull per te tjere.ne kete konteks mendoj se duhet pare mardhenia me te gjitha ato forca te cilat punojne per shkaterrimin dhe eleminimin e faktorit shqiperi -shqipetar .te mos harrojme se kur flasim per rrespektim te te drejtave njerezore me njerez qe na trajtojne si jo njerez rreziku eshte zhdukje nga faqja e dheut .si shembull kemi rastin e sebrenices ku bosnjaket ne kampin e kaskave blu ju dorezuan serbeve si nje veprim njerezor bazuar ne te gjitha virtytet shpirterore njerezore dhe historia na dha dhe nje here proven se megjithe qe serbet ishin femi te kishes (BURIM IASPIRATAVE ME TE LARTA HYJNORE E NJEREZORE)prap vepruan ne rraportin serbet jane njerez ndersa bosnjaket jo te tille si rrjedhoje vrasje masive pike.ndaj mendoj se te gjithe ata qe adhurojne lirine te kujtohen se ajo vjen dhe brohet me gjak .dhe vete amerika vendi me liri te persosur ne historine njerezore nuk harron te dergoje bijte esaj te luftojne per ate qe ne e quajme liri njerezore, dhe e dini cfare mire eben se edi mesimin e historise.ndaj atyre qe nakeshillojne te trajtojme greket me kulture e edukate ti kujtojme se historikisht jane greket ata qe na vrane mesuesit gje qe na demtoi ne forcimin me te ardhme intelektuale per nje kohe shume te gjate.atyre qe na kerkojne te rrespektojme rracat tu themi qe po jemi dakort me ju por mos harroni se fakti qe ju predikoni per kete nuk ju jep te drejten ete pareve ne eksperimentimin e zhvillimit njerezor dhe si pasoje ti kujtojme se ato gjithashtu gabojne nese mendojne qe si te tille atyre ju lejohet te na vrasin ne emer te zhvillimit te tyre por neve sna lejohet te mbrohemi pasi shkelkemi ne parimet qe ata zbuluan .te jesh njerezor do te thote ne rradhe te pare te mbrosh njerezimin dhe nese nevoja e do aty ska vend per sentimentalizma ose tolerance njerezore . e kunderta ka humbur llogjiken njerezore ndaj mjaft me me njerzillek ,pergjigja eshte LIRIA MROHET ME GJAK. From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:54:24 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:54:24 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] greku tregon per serbin pj-5 Message-ID: <77.5de94cb.26868810@aol.com> The exit for Jugoslavia towards the Adriatic was by now closed. Due to the following the Balkan Wars and WWI, treaties, agreements, alliances, like the ones of Rapallo in 1920, the Adriatic one of 1924, the Nettuno agreement of 1925, etc.etc.etc. the Serbs found themselves sitting on the side of the losers no matter what. And when the creation of Jugoslavia took place, with the Italians on one side and the Germans on the other, the creation of a Greater Serbia including ALBANIA, became impossible. They were losing FIUME and the Albanian ports, however they had made their first step towards a base in Thessaloniki with the above mentioned agreement. It was time for the second Serbian step for the creation of an independent piece of land for them in Thessaloniki. And it came in the form of the Denunciation of the 1913 treaty for various reason. It happened on November the 17th 1924. One of the reasons--excuses for the Denunciation, was the signing of an agreement between the Greek POLITIS and the Bulgar KALFOF on September 29th, regarding the ""BULGARIAN"" minorities in Greece. The Bulgars for a moment had, due to the above mentioned protocol , the Greeks recognizing such a Bulgar minority. There were Two main requests by the Serbs, not for the signing for another alliance, but for a SIMPLE AGREEMENT GUARANTYING THE COMMON BORDERS, and these were: 1st, that the agreement between POLITIS and KALFOF was NOT TO GO IN EFFECT and 2nd, that the surrender of the zone in Thessaloniki was to take effect immediately. The second humiliating request for us, took effect on February the 25th 1925, and when the Greek representation arrived in Belgrade for the new talks, having the rest of Europe and the United Nations against her, because of the rejection by the Greeks ( thanks God ) of the Geneva accords two months earlier, she was subjected to more and more humiliating requests by the people with whom fought on their side 3 times in 12 years, and for whom we liberated more land than they did on their own. Beograd was asking 1. for the expancion of the zone, 2. for limitations on the Greek presence around it, , 3. for full concessions regarding the railways from Geygeli to Thessaloniki, 4. for the signing of a special agreement according to which ANY PERSON CLAIMING JUGOSLAVIAN ORIGINS, THEY COULD BECOME JUGOSLAVIAN CITIZENS, WITHOUT BEING SUBJECTING TO IMMIGRATION (S)!!!!!!!!!!! Poor Bulgars.............there they were asking for recognition of Bulgarian Minority, and the Serbs were creating Serbian COLONIES.................... It was impossible for us, it was impossible for the Greek Nation to accept such Humiliating Terms and Conditions by our EX-ALLIES From FSaqellari at aol.com Sun Jun 25 11:43:52 2000 From: FSaqellari at aol.com (FSaqellari at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:43:52 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] Si mendojme? Message-ID: degjo o olsi asnje nga shqiperia nuk ka bekuar serbet qe vrisnin po perkundrazi i ndihmuan kosovaret me strehe dhe ushqim dhe u gjenden afer tyre si te krishtere orthodokse dhe musliman.. besoj se e di kte . serbet vrane dhe prene ne kosove dhe kjo eshte arsyeja qe une them se ne nuk duhet te shoqerojme me ta jo sepse une jam shqiptar dhe ne jemi ne hasmeri me to po sepse une i shof tash e tutje serbet si nje komb barbare. dhe te pa civilizuar per te aritur ne standartet e nje shoqerie te atille qe meritojne te kene falje.. mendoj se ne qofte se e shofim situaten ne kete menyre ne nuk do te arijme as atje sa te politizojme dhe fene..... sepse cdo fe e pa politizuar ka si qellim pastrimin e njeriut dhe sjelljen e tij ne nje shoqeri te civilizuar dhe te paster. me respekt florean saqellari From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 18:00:07 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:00:07 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] greku zihet me serbin pj-7 Message-ID: Finally it was time for the Greeks to get MAD, it was time for us to say to the SERBS, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! And on August of 1927 the Greek Parliament, after a series of Humilating situations against our National pride, rejected the accords of 1926 In the next 10 years, God only knows what was said in Jugoslavia against Greece, and what was done against the people of Greek ETHNICITY, especially the ones in my family's lands in and around MONASTIRI. New books had to be printed presenting Greece under the new situation, speeches were giving in any occassion at any time at any place against Greece, diminishing her accomplishments during the Balkan Wars and WWI, our race became the worst on this planet, etc.etc.etc. Their ego and their inferiority complex drove them to the pricipal that the leader in the Balkans was since Byzantine times the SERBIAN nation and that STILL is. It was the time of the creation of the SERBIAN chauvinism against its neighbors, incduding BULGARIA, and the other states within the Jugoslavian Union ,but clearly from different Ethnic backgrounds, like the Slovenes, Bosnians, Montenegrians, Dalmatians, etc.etc. not to forget of course the ..............""MAKEDONIANS"" !!! And so we arrived in 1934, a year when many were believing the slogan "" THE BALKANS FOR THE BALKANIANS"", while the Serbs and the rest of the PANSLAVISTS PROPHETS were declaring among other things.......DURRES,SKODRA, THESSALONIKI FOR THE SERBS................KAVALLA, KOMOTINI, KONSTANTINOUPOLIS TO THE BULGARS. Serbs and Bulgars were talking for the future of the Balkans, with Greece feeling that the articles of that Balkan Agreement could place us against Italy. For the Tsaldaris goverment was a great political victory, for Venizelos and the rest of the opposition a grave mistake. In the end with an additional article excluding Greece from her obligations in case of an Italian involment, in 1936 Greece signed the papers of the Counsil for Balkan Communication . It was one more defeat for the Greek State, and a victory for the Slav countries of the Balkan Peninsula, while the black clouds of Fascism, Communism and uncontrolled Panslavism were already arriving in the Greek skies from any direction. From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 17:57:23 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:57:23 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] ja si na e moren kosoven(greku dhe serbi ) pj-6 Message-ID: <6c.818ebb.268688c3@aol.com> And yet...........as soon as PANGALOS' dictatorship arrived in Greece, in the summer of 1926, the Serbs obtained : 1. The Serbian Zone was modified in a REAL SERBIAN port, 2. The limits of such Serbian port were to be increased, 3. Such port was supplied with so many priviledges as to be in a better position than the Greek one with regards to the Inernational competition, 4. The organization of such port was becoming completely independent and ships could arrive and depart without any search, 5. The Serbian port was to be recognized not only as such, but also as an International one with grave damages to the Greek marine fleet and more in general to the Greek Interests, 6. The railway tracks from Greek were to become Greek-Jugoslavian, with a French arbitrator, operating actually as part of the Jugoslavian Railways System having its workers communicating in the Serbian language. Additionally and after this second step for the SERBIZATION of Thessaloniki a speacial agreement was signed recognizing 500 people with their families as Jugoslavians, all of them from the Serbian Makedonia, INCLUDING THE GREEKS FROM MONASTIRI ................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SPEAKING OF TRAITORS..............................OF COURSE!, including also all the Israelis that during the war took the Serbian citizenship, without the knowledge of the Greek state. Two more agreements were opening the doors for the destruction of HELLENISM in Thessaloniki, compliments of the SERBS. 1. The Greek Foreign Minister recognized the direct control of Jugoslavia over the priviledges of the Monastery of HILIANDARION in mountain Athos, based upon the articles regarding minorities, after the Treaty of Sevres and 2. Greece was becoming responcible for any kind of problems due to Minority Rights not towards the United Nations, but DIRECTLY towards...........Jugoslavia!!!!! And what they were offering the Serbs?.................A three years agreement of friendship and cooperation!!!!!!! Thanks God, we had people like MICHALAKOPOULOS and IOANNIS POLITIS, there were wolves waiting all around, wolves like TURKEY, ENGLAND, BULGARIA, and few others all of them telling us to have talks with the Serbs, all of them exept..............ITALY ! My good old Italy! Italy seeking after its protectorate in Albania and after its Adriatic lake. Italy signing agreements with Greece, agreements of friendship and cooperation, agreements that made the Serbs to suspect us that we were collaborating with them in an Greeco-Italian conspiracy against the Natioanl interest of Serbia. Obviously they had forgotten their secret talks with them regarding Kosovo and the use of the Albanian ports and facilites, ultimately seeking the full annexation of Kosovo and Albania and the creation of a Greater Serbia. From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 18:07:35 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:07:35 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] greku dhe serbi pj 9 dhe fund Message-ID: Who will ever forget the battle of VITSI, the battle of FLORINA, the NAMES OF ORGAZINATIONS THAT ACTED AGAINST HELLAS AND HER PEOPLE, HAVING BEHIND THEM THE SERBS? Organizations like AKODM,AMBKK, AVNOJ,IMRO,KBO,CPY, CPM, NOF,SOMF, etc.etc.etc. Organizations that were made up from the SERBS, by the SERBS and for the SERBIAN SUPREMACY in the Balkan Peninsula. These are the people whom few of us are supporting and TRUSTING for a future cooperation for the creation of an ORTHODOX ALLIANCE ! ORTHODOX ALLIANCE my foot! Which kind of ORTHODOXY ever took care of HELLENISM, in order to have this NEW one to do it ? Since when a tribe of FOTIO's GENTLE CHILDREN will care more for OUR interests first rather than their own ones, for which they have been fighting for more than 14 centuries if not more now? What we do need is a NEW genaration of SERBIAN LEADERS, a generation that will educate itself from what the SERBIAN peasants knew about the people living to the South of their lands. A generation that will allow the constituents of the state to VOTE FREELY and DECIDE FREELY about their leaders and the objectives that need to be followed in order for SERBIA to become part of Europe. MILOSEVIC is not the kind of leader that could UNIFY SERBIA or have her advance and offer happiness to its people. He is, like almost all the previous leaders of SERBIA, dividing his people, and separate them from us. For as long as SERBIAN intentions do exist, regarding Thessaloniki, or any other Hellenian lands, the SERBS will be and should be considered as ENEMIES. And with enemies one can not talk about signing agreements, especially ones based not upon good understanding between the two people, but upon their RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS ! We paid plenty following the games of the Patriarchate from Konstantinoupolis, we don't need to find out about the dark plans of the Russian Patriarchate, and it's PANSLAVIC domination. Regards to all...................L. ""Vlachs, the Autochthonous Of The Hellenic Peninsula"". autori ka adresen Lyngos at aol.com ky shkrim u kopjua nga cati politik grek. From URAN37 at aol.com Sat Jun 24 18:03:36 2000 From: URAN37 at aol.com (URAN37 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:03:36 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] greku dhe serbi pj-8 Message-ID: Suddenly, on January of 1937, Bulgaria is signing a Pact of ETERNAL FRIENDSHIP with who else............but the Serbs! All of a sudden the old Slav rivals are back together, with Bulgaria this time as winner in the political and diplomatic game in the Balkans. Pure SERBS, they never realized that were opening the door, with friendly approach towards Sofia, to future arrivals of the Bulgarian hordes in the lands of Southern Serbia, SKOPIA and the rest of the Serbian Makedonia, and from there into my town of Florina, having their base in Monastiri. It was their turn to destroy that Southern SERBIA, that at that time of WWII was nothing more nothing less but OUR Makedonia, the one that was GIVEN to the SERBS back in 1913. And it was THEIR fault, it was the SERBS' fault if the Bulgarians arrived in our lands seeking to finish what they couldn't accompish during the Makedonian Struggle. When the Greeks succesfully defended their borders from the Italians troops in 1940, their victories were accepted with great satisfaction by the SERBIAN peasants of Soumadia, the same ones that received their lands back from the Greek Army back in 1913, they had remained credible believers in the friendship among the PEOPLE of the two Nations. However their political establishment had other ideas and on March the 25th 1941, National Holiday in Greece, the SERBS are becoming part of the tri-axel Germany-Italy-SERBIA. As DECENT PAYMENT for such agreement they receive the recognition of their SERBIAN ETHNIC CLAIMS towards OUR THESSALONIKI. Two days later, on March the 27th 1941, the LAST FRIENDLY EXPRESSION OF SOLIDARITY BY THE SERBS TOWARDS US TOOK PLACE, WHEN A NATIONAL UPRISING HAPPENED. The Germans got their revenge with the ""Operation Punishment"", and Serbia with Greece became occupied countries by the Germans. And while up in the Serbian and Greek mountains TITO, EAM-ELAS and EDES were fighting together with the local populations against the Germans against each other, against themselves, the land especially the MAKEDONIAN land was suffering one more time,as we saw from the arrival of KALTSEF and the rest of his OXRANA boys, COURTESY OF COURSE TO THOSE SERBS BACK IN 1937. Of course of the SERBIAN friendly ""DISPOSITION"" towards Greece, there is much more to say, from the CREATION OF THE POPULAR REPUBLIC OF MAKEDONIA, ALL THE WAY to the SERBIANS that by now had become..............COMMUNISTS OVERNIGHT, offering their lands and their supplies against our NATION. Who, when, where and how could forget the SERBS and the damages that THEM with their COMMUNIST ALLIES INFLICTED TO THE GREEK PEOPLE AND COUNTRY BETWEEN 1946 TILL 1949 ? From glaus_tirana at hotmail.com Sun Jun 25 15:36:06 2000 From: glaus_tirana at hotmail.com (glaus tirana) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:36:06 GMT Subject: [Alb-club] Kostumet popullore Shqiptare ! Message-ID: <20000625193606.54859.qmail@hotmail.com> >Did you know the Celtic word for Scotland is "Alban" And is it more than >coincidence that the kilt is worn in both Scotland and Albania? True, there >is little comparison between the design of the 'fustanella' (or, to give it >its full name, 'Fustanella e Fameshme e Shqipetarit) and the >tartan-patterned kilt of the Scottish clans, but isn't it strange that even >the two countries' clan-system bear a remarkable resemblance? > > The Hungarian sociologist, Baron Nopcsa, believed that the Albanian, or >Illyrian, kilt set the original pattern for the Roman military dress and, >because of its similarity to the Celtic kilt, he also theorized that the >Roman legions in Britain, through the presence of its Illyrian element, >could have started the fashion among the Celts. > The Albanian kilt was common dress for men in the 13th century where it >was regularly worn by a tribe of Dalmatians, on of the Illyrian ancestors >of >the Albanians. At that time, the kilt was called "Dalmatica". But theories >exist that the kilt had its origins during much earlier times as a long >shirt called 'linja' which, when gathered at the waist by a sash, gave the >appearance of a knee- or calf-length kilt. Depending on the social status >of >the wearer, materials used in fabricating the fustanella (thereby defining >the number of pleats) ranged from coarse linen or woollen cloth for >villagers to luxurious silks for the more affluent. Although the kilt was >worn by men throughout Albania, today it is seen only on special occasions >in southern Albania, especially in the Gjirokaster area and in the Albanian >regions of Montenegro, KosovA, Serbia, Macedonia and Greece. > And the Albanian and Scottish clan-systems have a number of >similarities. Noel Malcolm makes reference to them in his 'Kosovo: A Short >History': "...at some time in the sixteenth century the Ottoman authorities >gave up trying to impose their normal administrative or feudal >system...letting the clans run their own affairs in virtual 'zones of >self-government' instead. Curiously, the development of the clan system in >Scotland was taking place at precisely the same time, and for much the same >reason: a breakdown of central power and feudal structures in the fifteenth >and sixteenth centuries. Scottish clans also developed the idea of common >ancestry..." > But back to the kilt. Two noted writers referred to it, in CHILDE >HAROLD'S PILGRIMAGE, observed the "...Albanian kirtled to the knee", while >T.S. Finlay in his TRAVELS THROUGH GREECE AND ALBANIA states, >unequivocally, >that "it was the fame of the Albanians which induced the modern Greeks to >adopt the Albanian kilt as their national costume." ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ALBODean1 at aol.com Sun Jun 25 22:24:38 2000 From: ALBODean1 at aol.com (ALBODean1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:24:38 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] KONTRIBUTI I MUSLIMANEVE NE SHKENCE (#1) Message-ID: <8e.6e7c78f.268818e6@aol.com> KONTRIBUTI I MUSLIMANEVE NE SHKENCE (Pjesa e par?) Nga universiteti i Endalusit, n?n ndikimin e civilizimit lindor? Islam, i cili u sh?ndrrua n? civilizimin internacional, nga p?rkthimet Europjane t? legjislatur?s Islame, lindi l?vizja rilindase Europjane (Renesansa) n? shekullin kat?rmb?dhjet? dhe pas tij. Poashtu lindi edhe nj? l?vizje e re shkencore, sidomos metoda eksperimentale n? shkenc?. Feja islame sh?ndriti me civilizimin e tet, derisa halifi nuk mund?te t? merrte asnj? mendim, pa e l?shuar fetvan? Shejhyl - islami, apo m?ftiu, n? baz? t? sherjatit. Derisa xhamija ishte xhami (vendtubim, vendkuvendim, vend edukim, vend lutje); derisa imami e luante v?rtet? rrolin e imamit (prijsit fetar?, politik, ushtarak, arsimor? dhe edukativ t? nj? xhemati); derisa imami ishte n? nivelin m? t? lart? arsimor?, edukativ dhe moral, sesa xhemati i vet; derisa zeqati ishte zeqt? me plotkuptimin e fjal?s; derisa haxhill?ku nuk ishte turiz?m, por ishte kongres islamik i p?rfaq?suesve t? t? gjitha viseve islame; derisa agj?rimi nuk b?hej me iftar? e me syfyr, por n? radh? t? par? me zem?r, me shpirt? e me nd?rgjegje; derisa kurbani nuk ishte nj? ceremoni, nj? adet, por nj? obligim moral; derisa Kur'ani nuk u lexohej t? vdekurve p?r shpirt? t? tyre, por u lexohej e u spjegohej njerzve p?r s? gjalli, n? m?nyr? q? frytet e Kur'anit t'i shfryt?zoj? n? k?t? bot?; derisa ekzistonte toleranca dhe harmonia fetare, bota islame kishte ep?rsi n? ?do pik?pamje mbi bot?n e krishter?. Kjo periudh? e art? ishte nj?mij?vje?are, deri n? fundin e shekullit XVII, kurse nga shekulli XVIII e deri n? dit?t tona, bota islame ?sht? duke p?rjetuar nj? kriz?, p?rkund?r bot?s s? krishter?, e cila duke i p?rvet?suar disa nga parimet e islamit, ajo mu n? k?t? periudh? historike, u p?rtri, u ringjall dhe arrijti prosperitetin e saj. K?shtu p?r s? af?rmi u b? nj? rrokad?, krishterizmi u sh?ndrrua n? islamin modern, kurse islami u sh?ndrrua n? krishterizmin primitiv (*1). Historian?t e Grenad?s, kan? sh?nuar se Amir Jusufi Bin Islamil, i cili erdhi n? pushtet (t? Grenad?s), pas Muhamed Rabit, ka ngritur punkte arsimore dhe e ka financuar ate n? ?do qytet dhe fshat. K?shtu ?donj?ri kishte mund?si q? t? ndiqte m?simet n? t?. N? ?do vendbanim, me 12 ose m? shum? banor?, kishte nd?rtuar nga nj? shkoll? dhe xhami me shpenzime t? qeveris?. Amir Jusufi, u mb?shtet fuqish?m n? nj? dihciplin? t? promovuar me ushtrimin e namazit. Namazi kolektiv i s? premtes ishte shum? i r?nd?sis?m, andaj u b? detyrim (ligjor) i obliguesh?m p?r ?do musliman. Dita e xhuma ishte dit? pushimi, dit? ibadeti, dit? e vizitave t? t? s?mur?ve, dit? arg?timi. N?se s?mundja apo paaft?sia, e pengonte ndonj?rin p?r tu prezentuar n? xhemat?, t?r? xhemati e ndjejshin vehten t? obliguar q? ta vizitojn?. Qytetar?t e pasur dhe b?mir?s, ishin t? obliguar me dekretin mbret?ror?, t? interesoheshin p?r njer?zit e paaft? dhe p?r sigurimin e vendbanimeve t? tyre. Kur vdiste i zoti i sht?pis? s? ndonj? familjeje, icili e lente ate pa mjete t? nevojshme p?r ekzistenc?, at?her? zyrtar?t e regjistronin at? rast dhe q? nga ai moment, shteti merrte p?rgjegj?sin? p?r at? familje. Historia nuk sh?non ndonj? koh? kur varf?rija, papun?sia dhe urija, jan? t? panjohura, ve? koh?s s? sundimit t? Amir Jusufit n? Grenad? p?r 20 vjet? t? sundimit t? tij. .Derisa nj? dit?, kur masa e popullit t? Grenad?s, zente t? falte namazin e Idul Fitrit (bajramit t? ramazanit) nj? agjent i mbretit t? Krishter? (fqinj), nxitoj nga turma dhe i dha nj? goditje vdekjepruse Amir Jusufit. Kordoba n? mesjet? kur arrijti qyteterimin Islam kishte 1.000.000 banor?, 200.000 sht?pi, 600 xhami, 80 institucione m?simore dhe librarin? publike me m? shum? se 600.000 volume(*2).Th?n? ndryshe ajo ishte qendra m? e madhe kulturore n? Europ?(*3). Prej vet? intelektualve t? krishter?, thuhet se kultura Islame ka patur ndikim mjaft t? madh n? gravitimin e dijetar?ve m? t? njohur t? krishter?. Bile roli i ipeshk?ve, ka qen? q? me mesazhin e veprave Islame ta sh?ndrrojn? n? mesazh t? krishter? (*4). Musliman?t ishin ata q? e bart?n thesarin e filozofis? Greke n? Per?ndim. Me frutet e kontributit t? tyre, Sot sh?rbehet Europa. Qyeteti HEREFORD gjat? shekullit XI ka qen? qend?r e v?rtet? Angleze p?r studime arabe. Pak m? von? mund t? thuhet se p?rkthimi i Kur'anit, i inicuar nga Petri i Madh (1155), i ka nxit? p?rkthyesit e m?vonsh?m, t? p?rkthejn? nga filozofija, sidomos n? qytetin TOLAND, sepse veprat e filozofis?, ishin m? t? preferueshme. Pas shkatrrimit t? Perandoris? Romake, jan? njohur vet?m nj? ose dy vepra t? Aristotelit, por nga viti 1125, e k?ndej, u gjet?n p?rkthimet e disa veprave t? Aristotelit nga Boethiusi q? deri at?her? njiheshin si t? humbura. Me k?t? rast, jan? b? edhe ngatrresa, sepse libri q? njihet me titullin "TEOLOGJIA" e Aristotelit, i ?sht? mveshur Aristotelit, sepse p?rndryshe ?sht? i Platonit. Pastaj "LIBER DE CAUSIS", p?rmban nj? pjes? nga libri i Perikleut: "Elementatio Theologica". N? t? nj?jt?n koh? n? Prendim, kan fillua t? p?rkthehen vepra origjinale t? autor?ve musliman, si "DE INTELLECTA" e Kindiut (873 - 270 H) dhe "DE INTELLECTA" e Ebu Nas?r El Farabiu, si dhe me veprat e tij "DE SCINETIS", "DE ORTU SCINETIARIUM", pastaj veprat e Ibni Sinas?, e sidomos ato t? Teologjis?, "libri mbi shpirtin", vepr?n e Gazaliut: "Q?llimet e Filozof?ve", dhe "BURIMI I JETES" s? Ibni Xhebruilit ? njihet me emrin Avicebron (1508 / 450 H).M. Gibson thot? se libri "DE ANIMA" i Gundisalvit, paraqet fillimin e dep?rtimit t? mendimeve t? Ibni Sinaut nd?r intelegjenc?n e krishter?. Gjat? shekullit XIII / 7 H, nj? dep?rtim i k?till? v?rehet edhe n? veprat e Williamit nga Auvergne (1249) n? veprat e prift?rve t? njohur fran?eskan e q? ishin Profesor? n? Univerzitetin e Parisit. Aleksandri i Halesit (1245), Jean De la Rochele (1245), St Bonavantura (1274). Tek fran?eskan?t Anglez: Robert Gaorseteste (1254), John Pechkam (1292).M?simet e Ibni Sinas? dhe t? Farabiut, kan ndikuar edhe n? idet? e Roxher Bejkonit, sa q? teorija e tij mbi shenjt?rin? e pap?s, ?sht? identike me teorin? e Ibni Sinas? mbi hilafetin.Gjithashtu n? veprat e Toma Akvinskit gjejm? huazime t? m?dha nga veprat e Sinas?, n? formulimin e elementeve, metod?s dhe terminologjis?.Ibni Rushdiu, si p?rkthyes i njohur i veprave t? Aristotelit, n? prendim e merr titullin "komentator par excelence". N? vitin 1210, idet? e tija u ndaluan n? Univerzitetin e Parisit. Veprat e tija dep?rtuan m? von?, t? cilat n? fillim u mir?priten, nga arsyeja se askush nuk e v?rente rrezikun q? u kanosej prej ideve t? tij.Ata gati i pranuen idet? e tij dhe i mvet?suan, mir?po kjo ide ishte katastrofale p?r fen? dhe shkencat e saja (krishtere n? Prendim), sepse simbas mendimit t? tyre, feja dhe shkencat e saja mund t? jen? n? kund?rshtim, me intelektin n? pikat elementare.Rreziku i madh ?sht? se Ibni Rushdiu, psikologjin? e m?suesit t? tij, e komentoi n? m?nyr? materjaliste... Kur Ibni Rushdiu m? ishte harruar n? vendet Islame, veprat e tija botoheshin n? Veneci (1481, 1482, 1484, 1489, 1500). Kompleti i tij ribotohet m? 1553, 1557. P?rve? botimeve t? Padov?s n? shekullin XVI, kan dal? botime t? reja dhe n? Napoli, Bolonj?, Paris, Lion, Strasburg etj, mir?po pas vitit 1580, numri i lexuesve t? veprave t? Ibni Rushdiut bie. Veprat e tija ribotohen m? 1608, n? Gjenev?, por i mbulon pluhuri i biblotekave(*5). Krahas ndikimit t? Ibni Sinas? dhe Ibni Rushdiut n? filozofin? e prendimit, duhet t? cekim edhe vepr?n e Ebu Bekr Ibni Tufej - lit: "HAJJ IBN JAKLLAN" (1185 / 581 H). Autori me an?n e nj? lloji t? posa??m t? shkrimit filozofik q? njihet n? latinisht si "PHILOSOPHUS AUTODIDAKTUS" ka dashur t? b?j? harmonizimin e intelektit dhe t? fes?. Protagonisti i ngjarjes Haj Ibn Jakdhani, f?mij? pa bab? dhe pa n?n?, i l?n? n? nj? uj?dhes? t? shkret? t? Oqeanit t? Indis?, p?r t? cilin kujdeset ta ushqej? nj? drenush?, fillon t? rritet dhe gradualisht ta kuptoj? jet?n p?rreth, ti zbuloj? ligjet e natyr?s, derisa m? n? fund arrin? t? besoj? n? ekzistimin e Allahut, Krijuesit t? botrave, pra arrin? t? kuptoj? t? v?rtetat e fes?. Kjo vep?r konsiderohet si margaritar? i let?rsis? Arabe, e cila ka arrijt? sukses shum? t? madh n? Prendim.N? shekullin XIV (8 H), ?sht? p?rkthyer n? hebreisht, kurse n? gjysm?n e dyt? t? shekullit XIV (8 H), ?sht? p?rkthye n? gjuh?n Latine nga PICO DELA MIRANDOLLA (1494). M? 1671, n? latinisht ?sht? p?rkthyer edhe nj? her? nga EDVARD POCOCK THE YOUNGER e ?sht? ribotuar n? vitin 1700. Pastaj nga latinishtja n? anglisht e ka p?rkthyer G. KEITH (1674) ithtar? i sekt?s "QUARKEZ" icili k?t? vep?r e ka vler?sue si p?rforcues i besimit. N? gjuh?n holandeze, ?sht? p?rkthyer nga nj? person anonim (diku 1672 - 1701). M? 1726 ?sht? p?rkthye n? gjermanisht. Ka p?rjetuar shum? p?rkthime deri m? 1900 PONS BOIGUES, e p?rktheu n? Spanisht dhe GONZALES PALENCIA (1934). Rusisht e ka p?rkthyer J. KUZMIM (1920). Studjuesit e kan? vler?suar se shkrimtari i tregimit "ROBINSON KRUSO" i DANIEL DEFO-s? ?sht? inspiruar nga "HAJJ IBN JAKDHANI"(*6) . Astronomi N? vitin 1509, astronomi i njohur gjerman Johanes Kepler botoj nj? artikull, n? t? cilin konkludoj se "jo vet?m planetet rrotullohen reth diellit n? menyr? eliptike, por edhe reth boshtit t? tyre me nj? shpejt?si t? caktuar." Kjo e arritur shkencore, i mund?soj Evropjan?ve q? t'i spjegojn? shum misteri t? mekanizmit n? sistemin solar? dhe sh?ndrrimin e nat?s n? dit?. Sa i p?rket nat?s dhe dit?s, Kur'ani e p?rdor? foljen arabe "kawara", t? cil?n e spjegon se, sh?ndrrimi i nat?s n? dit? apo i dit?s n? nat?, ka t? b?j? me l?vizjen apo rrotullimin e tok?s rreth boshtit t? vet: "Ai krijoj qiejt dhe tok?n me q?llim t? caktuar. Ai nat?n ja mb?shtjell (vendit t?) dit?s dhe dit?n ja mb?shtjell nat?s; Ai n?nshtroi diellin dhe h?n?n, q? secili l?viz? deri n? nj? afat t? caktuar, pra Ai ?sht? ngadhnjyesi, m?katfal?si". (Kur'an 39:5) Dhe pastaj: "Ai ?sht? q? krijoj nat?n e dit?n, diellin e h?n?n, dhe secili prej tyre noton n? orbit?" (Kur'ani 21:33). N? k?t? m?nyre?, Zoti i madh?ruar, na ka dh?n? spjegime t? qarta lidhje me trupat qiellor?, t? cil?t qarkullojn? n? orbit? dhe k?shtu formohet dita dhe nata. Shekuj me radh? shkenctar?t dhe filozof?t Europjan, kan qen? t? mendimit se toka nuk l?viz? fare, por q?ndron n? mes t?gjith?sis?, kurse t? gjith planetet tjera (bashk? me Diellin) sillen rreth tok?s. N? Prendim, kjo teori e gjeocentrizmit ka ekzistuar pa kurrfar mohimi, prej koh?s s? Ptolemeut (n? shekullin e II-t? p.e.r), e deri n? shekullin XVI, kur Nikolla Koperniku e v?rtetoj, se toka sillet rreth diellit. Disa shekuj m? par?, musliman?t e kan njohur k?t? t? v?rtet? shkencore, dhe ate p?rmes Kur'anit. E gjith ?ka u ?sht? dashur atyre ?sht? v?shtrimi i asaj t? v?rtete Kur'anore. Studimi p?r nj? musliman t? v?rtet? ?sht? obligim me t? cil?n Allahu e ka ngarkue njeriun t? studjoj p?rb?rjen (krijimin) e tij, n? m?nyr? q? t? kuptoj? bot?n fizike, bot?n e mbrendshme dhe q?llimin e jet?s n? k?t? planet?. Shenjat p?r t? arrijtur deri te kjo njohuri, jan? shum? t? qarta. Fakti se dielli ?sht? burimi i vet?m i drit?s, kurse h?na ?sht? vet?m nj? trup qiellor? q? e reflekton k?t? drit?, sot ?sht? nj? evidenc? e pamohuar. Para kat?rmb?lljet? shekujve, Allahu (xh.sh), e p?rshkruan drit?n e H?n?s si "monier", ecila ka kuptimin e reflektimit apo t? huazimit, derisa Diellin e krahason me nj? llom? ndri?uese "wahaj" ose "siraj". Abdul Vafi zbuloi ndrrimin e tret? t? h?n?s, 600 vjet? para Tycho Braches?. Tabelat e Toledos, q? besohet t? ken? p?r autor Ibrahim Az - Zarkaliun, q? i referohen l?vizjes s? planeteve, q?ndruan nj? koh? t? gjat? themel i astronomis? Europjane.Al Biruni, ekspozoi hipotez?n, se toka e jo qielli, rrotullohet rreth boshtit t? vet.Ibn Baxha, madje parashihte mund?sin? q? rruga e planeteve t? ket? form? elipsi, e jo form?n e rrethit (*7). Astronom?t musliman si El Kindi, El Farabi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Hamza, Ibn Tufejl etj, Astrologjin? dhe t? shikuarit FALL HIROMANI me ndihm?n e yjve e kan konsideruar "marr?zir? pa argumente dhe pa analogji. Ibn Haz?n, shkruan se yjet nuk paraqesin kurrfar ngjarjesh lidhje me ardhm?rin?, e poashtu nuk ka ndikim n? pun?n ton?, n?qoft?se n? k?t? nuk n?nkuptohet ndikimi natyral i tyre te njeriu n? sip?rfaq?n tok?sore dhe ujore. Shumica e astronom?ve musliman, astronomin? e kan? konsiderue m? tep?r si matematik? t? bazuar n? v?zhgime dhe llogaritje. Xhabir Ibn Efleh, n? vepr?n "ASTRONOMIA" paraqiti v?rtetime se Marsi pas H?n?s dhe Vener?s ?sht? trupi qiellor? m? i af?rti prej tok?s. Sipas pohimit t? vet? Kopernikut, gjat? p?rpunimit t? l?vizjes s? trupave qiellor?, ai ka patur n? dor? vepr?n e Xhabir Ibn Eftehit. Vepra e Ebu Is'hak Betrugjit, ka arrijtur t? tund? kuptimet e Ptolomeut, dhe n? k?t? m?nyr? ai i ka kontribue Kopernikut t? rr?zoj? sistemin gjeocentrik, i cili shekuj me radh? konsiderohej si i sakt?. Vepra e Betrugjit, ?sht? p?rkthyer n? gjuh?n latine nga Mishel Skot (1217) dhe e botuar n? Bilonj? m? 1220. Shumica mendojn? se Newton-i, ka shfryt?zuar veprat e El Kahviut (t? p?rkthyera n? gjuh?t Europjane), gjat? themelimit t? llogaritjes diferenciale dhe integrale.Shum? prej planeteve u zbuluan nga musliman?t dhe u emruan prej tyre n? shkenc?n e astronomis?. Sa p?r ilustrim ja disa prej tyre: Alchernar, Aldebran, Deneb, Algol, Fornex, Fomalhaut, Betelgeuse, Rigel, Sirius, Mira, Altair, Taurus, etj.(*8) Njohja e Astronomis? si shkenc? ishte e domosdoshme p?r caktimin e koh?s s? disa ceremonive fetare, si p?rshembull koha e namazit, koha e agj?rimit, caktimi i drejtimit t? Kibles, etj. Abdurrahman Es-Sufi ka shkruar nj? vep?r t? madhe t? ilustruar p?r yjet e pal?vizsh?m, t? cilat gjenden mbi 1420 dhe planete t? ilustruara n? form? t? njerzve dhe t? kafsheve, emrat e t? cil?ve edhe sot gjenden n? p?rdorim, si: Arusha e madhe, Arusha e vog?l, peshku, virgj?resha, etj. El Kindi, z? vend si astronom m? i njohur n? shekullin e mes?m. Bile Italiani Xherollamo Kordano (1501-1576) si matamaticjent, mjek astrolog dhe filozof i natyr?s, sicili ka dh?n? formul?n p?r zgjidhjen e shkall?s s? tret?, El Kindin n? mesin e 12 personaliteteve gjeniale, t? cil?t jan? paraqit? n? bot?. Es-Sufi, sipas SARTONIT ?sht? Astronomi m? i njohur n? bot?. Ibni Jonusi ka shkruar tabelat e njohura t? Astronomis?, ka v?zhguar t? z?nunit e Diellit dhe t? H?n?s dhe ka zbuluar ligjin e Oshilimit t? tij, si dhe mund?sin? e aplikimit t? lavjerrsit n? matje t? koh?s, disa qindra vjet? para Galileut. El Batani, p?rve? tabelave astronomike, n? baz? t? Diellit ka llogarit? gjat?sin? e vitit diellor? dhe ka v?rtetuar mund?sin? e z?nijes s? plot? t? Diellit, ecila shkaktohet kur nd?rmjet saj dhe tok?s ?sht? h?na. Ai ka dh?n? edhe konstribute tjera t? shumta n? fush?n e astronomis?. Shkenctar?t musliman kan mat? gjet?sin? e meridianit t? tok?s, kan regjistruar barasdit?n pranverore dhe vjeshtore, kan caktue dimensionet e planeteve dhe larg?sin? nd?rmjet tyre para Galileut, Keplerit dhe Kopernikut.(*9) (vijon) Hajrudin Muja From ALBODean1 at aol.com Sun Jun 25 22:29:12 2000 From: ALBODean1 at aol.com (ALBODean1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:29:12 EDT Subject: [Alb-club] KONTRIBUTI I MUSLIMANEVE NE SHKENCE (#2) Message-ID: Hidrologji Filozofi I njohur Greke Aristoteli, ka menduar se avulli prej tok?s kondenzohet n? shpellat e bjeshk?ve t? ftohta dhe k?shtu formohen liqejt n?ntok?sor?. N? shekullin e shtat? (p.e.r) nj? filozof tjet?r i quajtur Talesi nga Miletusi, besonte se st?rpikat e ujit nga sip?rfqet e oqeaneve, mblidhen dhe me an?n e er?s ngriten mbi tok? dhe sh?ndrohen ne rreshje atmosferike. M? von?, dietari i njohur Bernard Palissy, e prezentoj nj? p?rshkrim tjet?r t? qarkullimit t? ujit n? natyr?. Ai sqaroj se uji avullohet nga nxehtesia e diellit, ngritet lart? n? qiell, prej nga formohen mjegullat. Era i shp?rndan? n?p?r kontinente dhe k?shtu kondenzohet dhe formohet shiu. Shiu mblidhet n?p?r lumej e liqej dhe n?p?rmes burimeve kthehet s?rish n? oqeane. Sot, bile edhe f?mij?t e shkollave fillore e dijn? k?t? fenomen, kurse, n? koh?n e Muhamedit (a.s), kjo ide e p?rhapur ka qen? e trajtuar m? tep?r si spekulim, se sa fakt i v?rtet?. Mu n? at? koh? Kur'ani tregoj: "A nuk e ke par? se si Allahu drejton ret?, pastaj i bashkon i b?n grumbull ato dhe at?her? e sheh shiun se si rrjedh prej tyre. Ai l?shon prej s? larti, nga ret? e m?dha si kodra bresh?r dhe me t? godet k? do, e ja largon atij q? do. Shk?lqimi i vet?tim?s s? drit?s s? res?, gadi se s't? merr t? t? parit" (Kur'an 24:43). Shum versete Kur'anore flasin p?r k?t? t? v?rtet?, por ata nuk p?rq?ndrohen vet?m aty. Ata flasin gjithashtu edhe p?r ndrrimin e stin?ve: "A nuk e sheh se Allahu l?shon uj? nga qielli dhe at? e shp?rndan? n? tok? n?p?r burime, mandej me t? mbijn? bim? t? llojeve dhe ngjyrave t? ndryshme, pastaj ajo thahet dhe ti e sheh at? t? zverdhuar dhe pastaj e b?n? at? t? llomitur. Ska dyshim se n? k?t? ka argument p?r t? zot?t e mendjes." (Kur'ani 39:21) "Nga argumentet e Tij ?sht? edhe ajo q? ua d?fton vet?tim?n dhe si frik? e edhe si shpres?, dhe nga qielli l?shon shi e me te e ngjall? tok?n pas vdekjes s? saj. N? k?t? ka argumente p?r nj? popull q? di t? mendoj?" (Kur'ani 30:24). Biologji Kur'ani ?sht? shpallur 600 vjet? p?rpara se shkencetari musliman, Ibn Nafis, e zbuloj qarkullimin e gjakut dhe 1000 vjet? para se William Harvey e sqaroj detalisht para shkenctar?ve Prendimor?. Kur`ani gjithashtu p?rmendi edhe procesin e tretjes s? ushqimit dhe shp?rndarjen e materjeve ushqyese: "Ju edhe n? kafsh?t keni m?sim (p?rvoj?). Ne nga nj? pjes? e asaj q? e kan n? barqet e tyre mes ushqimit t? tyre dhe gjakut, ju japim t? pini qumsht? t? past?r, t? shijsh?m (t? leht?) p?r ata q? e pin?" (Kur'an, 16:66). Kur'ani tutje vazhdon t? na njoh? me bot?n q? na rrethon. Krijimi i njer?zis?, mund t? v?rehet n? secil?n qenje individuale. Ajetet Kur'anore, sa i perket fekondimit dhe zhvillimit embrional t? qenjes njer?zore, jan? t? ?uditshme p?r shkenctar?t e koh?s son?: "Dhe Ai ?sht? q? krijoj llojet, mashkullin dhe femr?n. Nga pika e far?s q? hidhet". (Kur'an, 53:45-46). "Pastaj at? e b?m? pik? uji n? nj? vend t? sigurt?" (Kur'an, 23:13). "Lexo! me emrin e Zotit t?nd, icili krijoj (?do gj?). Krijoj njeriun prej nj? gjaku t? ngjizur (n? mitr?n e n?n?s)" (Kur'an, 96:1-2). M? pas, at? pik? uji e b?m? cop? gjaku, e at gjak t? ngurt? e b?m? cop? mishi, e at? cop? mishi e sh?ndrruam n? eshtra dhe eshtrave ua vesh?m mishin, pastaj at? e b?m? krijs? tjet?r (me shpirt?). I lart? ?sht? Allahu m? i miri krijues" (Kur'an, 23:14). Embrioni gjat? zhvillimit, kalon n?p?r faza, ku shumica jan? disproporcionale. "O ju njer?z! n?se dyshoni p?r ringjalljen, at?her? (mendoni krijimin tuaj q?) Ne u krijuam ju prej dheu, pastaj prej uji, pastaj prej nj? gjaku t? ngjizur, pastaj prej nj? sa kafshat? mishi q? ?sht? krijes? e formuluar ose e pa formuluar, n? m?nyr? q? t'ju sqarojm?. Nd?rsa at? q? d?shirojm? nNe, e p?rq?ndrojm? n? mir?t deri n? nj? afat t? caktuar, e mandej u nxjerrim foshnje dhe ashtu e arrini pjekurin? tuaj. Ka q? dikush prej jush vdes heret, e dikush t? jetoj? deri n? pleq?ri t? thell?, n? m?nyr? q? t? mos dij? asgj? nga dija q? ka patur. E ti e sheh tok?n e thar? t? vdekur, e kur Na ja l?shojm? asaj ujin, ajo gjall?rohet, shtohet dhe nga t? gjitha llojet rrit? bim? t? k?ndshme." (Kur'an, 22:5). "Mandej, Ai e form?son at? (n? barkun e n?n?s) dhe nga ana e vet i jep shpirtin atij dhe Ai ?sht? q? juve u pajis? edhe me d?gjim, me t? par? e me zem?r, e pak send ?sht? ajo q? ju fal?nderoni".(Kur'an, 32:9). Fizik? Kur'ani parasheh edhe fazat e zhvillimit njerzor?. Ai na jep dituri mbi fluturimet kozmike, dhe thot?: "O turm? e xhin?ve dhe e njer?zve, n?se keni mund?si t? dilni p?rtej kufijve t? qiejve e t? tok?s, dep?rtoni pra, por nuk mundeni vet?m me ndonj? fuqi t? fort?". (Kur'an, 55:33). Tani duhet t? jemi t? vet?dijsh?m se organizmi i ?uditsh?m i lindjes, mekanizmi i pakufish?m natyror?, zhvillimi i jet?s n? tok? e t? gjitha t? tjerat t? ngjajshme me kto, nuk jan? vet?m nj? koincident. Shkenctar?t duke u zhytur edhe m? thell? n? n?nbot?n e atomit, apo m?sheft?sit? e gjith?sis?, arrijne horizonte t? reja t? dituris?. K?shtu ato konfrontohen me pyetje t? cilat m? par? jan? konsideruar vet?m si ??shtje t? bot?s fetare. Shkenca, si nj? form? relative e dituris?, asnj?her? nuk do t? jet? n? gjendje tu p?rgjigjet t? gjitha k?tyre pyetjeve. Mir?po, duke realizuar t? v?rtet?n q? Kur'ani p?rmban, ne do t? mundemi t? arrijm? njohuri t? pazbuluara, duke hulumtuar p?r dituri shkencore. Para m? shum? se 14 shekujve, njeriu nuk i ka njoh? faktet shkencore p?r t? cilat flet Kur'ani. Athua, ?ka p?rmban tjet?r Kur'ani p?r t? na ofruar n? fush?n shekncore? Athua, ?far? do t? mund t? zbulonin pasardh?sit tan? nga Kur'ani q? p?r syt? ton? ?sht? misterioze dhe e pakuptueshme? Ky realizim, do t? b?het duke qen? t? vet?dijsh?m se jeta ?sht? e mvarur apo e nd?rlidhur me gjith diturin? fetare dhe spirituale. Ajetet Kur'anore jan? zbulimet m? t? reja t? nj? tradite t? gjat? t? men?uris? s? zbuluar. Pra, t? gjitha zbulimet e mistereve ende t? panjohura, mund t? b?hen vet?m n?p?rmes studimit t? pand?rprer? shkencor?. Matematik? N? koh?n e rregullimit t? mardh?nijeve brenda shtetit Islam prej Kin?s (n? lindje) e deri n? Franc? (n? prendim), shkenctar?t Islam menj?her? filluan p?rkthimet e veprave nga kultura greke, romake, indiane, kopte,aramejase dhe hinduse. Kalifi HARUN ER-RESHID ka marr? hara?in n? libra, nd?rsa kalifi Al Me'mnun pesh?n e vepr?s s? p?rkthyer e ka paguar me ari. N? fillim, n? qend?r t? venmendjes ishin p?rkthimet, nd?rsa m? von? erdhi periudha e krijimit origjinal n? l?menjt e ndrysh?m shkencor?. Kan folur p?r evolocionin, krijimin dhe zhvillimin e jet?s si dhe ndikimin e mjedisit n? qenijet e gjalla. P?r k?t?, disa shekuj para Lamarkit dhe Darvinit kan shkruar Ibn Maskavej, Ihvan As-Safa dhe Ibn Haldun. Kan caktuar ligjin e p?rgjithsh?m t? gravitetit dhe kan precizuar kuptimet themelore t? mekanik?s, shpejt?sin?, pesh?n dhe hapsir?n, edhpse k?to m? von? i jan? p?rshkruar Njutnit. Esht? v?rtetuar historikisht se p?r k?to kan? shkruar Al Hazin e shum? t? tjer? me qindra vjet? para Njutnit. Ibn An-Nefis, disa shekuj para Herit, ka sqaruar qarkullimin e vog?l t? gjakut, nd?rsa Ibn An Hejsem natyr?n e drit?s, shpejt?sin? dhe ligjin e thyerjes s? saj, shum? m? heret se shkenctar?t Europjan. AL HAVARIZMI nd?r t? par?t ka p?rdorur numrat n? matematik?, n? vend t? llogaritjes shkrimore (me shkrim). Ai ka caktuar dy seri t? numrave. E PARA: ?sht? e njohur me emrin, si numra Indian, nd?rsa kjo e dyta p?rdoret n? pjes?n Prendimore, arabe dhe Europjane. El Havarizmi, ka sistematizuar deri at?her? diturin? e shp?rndar? nga matematika, duke ja v?n? themelet k?shtu matematik?s dhe algjebr?s. N?se gjeometria ?sht? greke, at?her? pa dyshim trigonometria ?sht? arabe. Me p?rdirimin e Sinusit, ata kan zgjedhur shum? probleme t? trigonometris?, duke lidh? mardh?nijet n? mes sinusit dhe tangensit. El BEJRUNI ka shkruar shum? vepra n? l?min? e trigonometris?. EL BEJRUNI, n? m?nyr? shum precize ka caktuar pesh?n specifike t? 18 metaleve deri te decimalja e kat?rt, ecila nuk ndryshon prej llogaritjeve m? t? reja, kur jan? zbuluar instrumentet m? t? p?rsosura. ER RAZI ka p?rshkruar 25 instrumente t? metalit dhe t? qelqit t? cilat kan? qen? t? njohura deri at?her?. EL IDRISI, EL HAZIN, EL BEJRUNI kan caktuar ligjet themelore t? gravitetit. El Hazin gjithashtu ka konstruktuar aparatin p?r matjen e pesh?s s? trupave n? uj? dhe n? aj?r. El Bejruni ka konstruktuar aparatin p?r p?rfitimin e pesh?s specifike t? shum? mineraleve, l?ngjeve dhe trupave t? cilat treten n? uj?. Ibn Junusi ka konstruktuar lavjerrsin t? cilin astronom?t arab e kan? p?rdorur n? eksperimentet e tyre. Kan matur shtypjen atmosferike dhe kan dijtur se trupi ?sht? m? i leht? n? aj?r sesa n? tok?. Shkenctar?t arab kan shkruar gjithashtu nj? num?r t? madh veprash nga biologjia, mineralogjia, astronomia, gjeometria, mjek?sia, muzika etj. Shkenctar?t arab n? k?t? m?nyr? kan vendosur themelet e metodave t? reja t? metodologjis? s? pun?s k?rkimore dhe shkencore. CAGORI, thot?: "Ne Europjan?t mendojm? se kemi dh?n? dhe se kemi v?rtetuar shum teori shkrime dhe mendime, por n? fund prap? konstatohet se arab?t n? to kan? kaluar shum? m? heret. Popujt arabo-Islam kan bajtur flamurin e Rilindjes kulturore disa shekuj me radh?, n? koh?n kur Europa ka qen? n? detin e err?sir?s. Mendimi shkencor? n? periudh?n Islame, i dhuroj njerzimit shum? forma t? rehatis?, kultur?s, mir?qenijes duke i dhuruar m?suesit Al Farabi dhe Ibn Sina...". Gjeografi Zgjimi i Europ?s nga gjumi, filoj me p?rkthimet e gadi t? gjitha veprave, nga gjuha arabe n? gjuh?n latine. VASCO DE GAMA, lundroj rreth Afrik?s dhe arrin? deri te Arkipelagu i Malezis?. Kapiteni i anijes n? k?t? rrug? ishte IBN MEXHID. KRISTOFOR KOLOMBO, duke k?rkuar rrug?n p?r Indi, Arrijti n? Amerik?.N? vitin 921, Ibn Fadlan ishte n? Bullgari ku b?ri p?rshkrimin e par? me shkrim, q? ekziston edhe sot. P?rshkrimet ishin lidhur me poziten gjeografike, popullsin? dhe m?nyr?n e jet?s n? at vend. Al Biruni ka qen? i pari q? i dha emrin lumit Angara dhe p?rshkroi popullaten e Krahin?s s? Baikalit n? Siberin Veriore. Ai ka dh?n? informata edhe rreth Afrik?s s? jugut dhe Mozambikut.Ai shkoi n? Indi, studjoj gjuhen sanskrishte artin dhe shkencen Indiane dhe shkroi librin KHITAB UL-HIND. Muhallabi, ka qen? autor i punimit gjeografik q? kishte t? b?nte me Sudanin. Ai ishte autor i librit q? ishte libri i par? q? b?nte fjal? p?r k?t vend, n? vitin 985. Sulejman Tajir n? vitin 851, udh?toi n? Indi dhe n? Kin?. N? indi pak m? von? udh?toi edhe Ibn Hawqal. Kurse Ibn Khurdadhih e spejgoi Indin? dhe poziten gjeografike t? saj n? detaje. Ibn Rustah ?sht? autor i ENCIKLOPEDISE shtat volume prej t? cilave jan marr? me gjeografi Kjo enciklopedi sot gjendet n? Muzeun Britanik dhe ka qen? e publikuar n? vitin 903 (290 H).(*10) Ahmed Sahl b.Hisham al Marvazi ka qen? nd?r t? par?t q? ka b?r? hartat gjeografike dhe ka p?rshkruar poziten gjeografike t? Kin?s, Indis? e disa vendeve tjera t? Lindjes. Ka vdek? m? 934. (*11) Kontribuesit tjer? n? gjeografi jan?: Al Masudi : udh?toi dhe p?rshkroi Indin, Kin?n, Ceylon, Kankan, Malabar, Zezibar, Detin Kinez, Madagaskar Uman... Al Istakhri: b?ri harten e shteteve duke e ngjyros? secilin shtet me ngjyra t? ndryshme (Viti 951) Al Haik: gjeograf dhe astronomer m? 945 ka shkruar gjeografin? e Arabis? Al Maqdisi: gjeograf shum i njohur edhe n? prendim (lindur n? Jerusalem m? 947) Jaihani, Hamadani, Balkhi, gjeograf t? njohur. Al Bakri: (Spanj? 1040) Botoi fjalorin e njohur gjeografik. Muhamed Al-Tariqi: shkroi p?r Afriken e Jugut Al Munajjim: fjalorin gjeografik q? spegonte t? gjitha qytetet, poziten gjografike, popullsin?, ekonomin? etj. Ibn Jubair Al-Kinani: shkroi librin shum t? r?nd?sish?m "Udh?timet e Ibn Jubairit". Ibn Said al Maghribi ka b?r? harten klimatike at?her? t? vendeve t? njohura. Al Idrisi (1099) ka b?r? harten e bot?s dhe ka qen? personalitet i njohur n? shkencen e gjeografis?. Emrat tjer? t? njohur n? shkencen e gjeografis? i p?rmendim shkurtimisht: Abul Fida (1273), Hamdullah Mustawfi (1340), Al Damishqi (1327), Abdul Razzaq (1413), Amin Ahmad Razi, Harun B.Ali (ka projektua instrumentet e par? astronomik), Maslama al-Majriti (1007) ka b?r? tabelat gjeografike. Umar al-Marrakushi (1230), etyj, etj. Oftalmologjia Merita e oftamolog?ve arab (specijalist? p?r s?mundjen e syrit), v?rtet? ?sht? e madhe. Nj?ra nga punimet e r?nd?sishme (t? shquara) klasike me emrin: "OFTALMOLOGJIA MEMORIALE" e shkruar nga Ali Ibn Isa (viti 1000 i er?s son?), ?sht? i hartuar nga materjali grek: "DHJET LIDHJET E SYRIT" t? Galenit, icili solli njohuri t? reja. N? librin p?r kalifin, (i shkruar rreth vitit 1260), p?rmenden 18 punime t? b?ra n? oftalmologji, nd?rsa punimet greke q? nga Hipokrati e deri te Paulusi (periudh? kohore kjo e 1000 vjet?ve), jan? t? shkruara vet?m 5 vepra, n? k?t? l?nd?. T? gjitha veprat tjera q? i kan shkruar musliman?t mbi oftalmologjin?, jan? afro 30. Veprat m? t? r?nd?sishme jan? shkruar nga specjalist?t e s?mundjeve t? syve, dhe 14 sosh ekzistojn? edhe sot. Vepra m? komplete e Ali Ibn Isa, ?sht? "TEDHKIRETUL KANHALIJN" (Ditari i mjekut t? syve), vepra m? e mir? lidhje me s?mundjet e syve. Kjo vep?r u p?rkthye dhe u komentue n? gjermanishte m? 1904, nga Hirschbergu dhe Lipperti. M? 1936 u p?rkthye n? gjuh?n angleze nga Casey Wood. P?rkthimi i par? i k?tij libri u b? n? gjuh?n persishte, e pastaj n? gjuh?n latine, dhe u publikua n? venedik m? 1497. Abdul Hasan Ahmed Ibn Muhamed Al Tabari, n? vepr?n e tij "KITABUL MUALEXHETUL BUKRATIJJA" (Libri mbi mjekimin hipokratian) ka shkruar v?shtrime t? gjata mbi s?mundjen e syve, vep?r kjo q? fatkeq?sisht nuk ekziston m?. Ammar Ibn Ali nga Mosuli, sukseset e tija m? t? m?dha i arrijti rreth vitit 1010, me librin "KITABUL MUNTAK HAB FI LLAXHUL AJN" (libri i opcijoneve p?r mjekimin e s?mundjeve t? syve). Libri i tij ka t? b?j? me anatomin?, patologjin? dhe gjasht rasteve t? operimit t? kataraktit dhe rastin neuristik optik.! Ammari ka shqyrtuar 48 s?mundje t? syve n? nj? vep?r t? vog?l prej 1500 fjal?sh. Ky dor?shkrim (nr 894) gjendet n? bibloteken ESCORIAL t? adridit n? Spanj?. Kjo vep?r ?sht? p?rkthye n? hebraisht (shek. XVIII) dhe n? gjermanisht (1905). Ammari, ishte i pari q? kishte b? operimin e kataraktit me an? t? thithjes, duke p?rdorur nj? gjilp?r? me zgav?rr, t? cil?n e fuste n? "limbus". Ky lloj? operacioni aplikohet edhe sot (n? raste t? tilla). N? Europ? nuk ?sht? dijt? p?r k?t? lloj? operacioni, deri n? fund t? shekullit XVIII. Abu Ruh Muhammad Ibn Mansur Bin Abdullah, i njohur si AL XHURXHANI, mjek i shquar nga Persia, sukseset e veta i arrijti rreth vitit 1088 n? vepr?n "NUR UL AJN" (Drita e syve), n? dhjet volume. Vet?m volumi i shtat?, p?rshkruan rreth 30 operacione t? syrit. N? k?t? vep?r b?n fjal? p?r anatomin? dhe fiziologjin? e syrit; p?r s?mundjet SCLERAL dhe CORNEAL, p?r problemet e kapak?ve t? syve, paraliz?n e nervit t? tret?, ?'rregullimet e qarkullimit t? gjakut, toksikimin p?r s?mundjet sh?ruese dhe josh?ruese dhe metoda p?r sh?rimin e tyre, kirurgjis? s? syve, p?r anastazionin q? e kan? p?rdor? mjek?t e syve, etj. Nj? em?r tjet?r q? p?rmendi Hirschberg, n? ligj?rat?n e tij t? mbajtur n? "Asociacion American", t? medicin?s m? 1905 ishte EBU MUTARIE nga Sevila (e Spanj?s), icili sukseset e tija i arrijti rreth shekullit XI, specijalist i s?mundjeve t? syve, icili nj?koh?sisht ishte edhe vezir. Fatkeq?sisht, veprat e tija sot kan humbur pa gjurm?. MUHAMMED IBN KASSUM IBN ASLAM (AL GHAFIQI) /... - 1165/ i cili veproj n? shekullin XII, n? vepren e tij t? njohur "AL MURSHID FIL KHUL" (Udh?rr?fyes i drejt? n? oftalmologji). P?rve? s?mundjeve t? syrit, ky jep t? dh?na edhe p?r kok?n dhe s?mundjet e trurit. Ky jep sh?nime, edhe p?r instrumentet q? jan? p?rdor? n? kirurgjin? e syve. Ajo q? filloj t? lul?zoj? n? fillimin e shekullit XX n? Amerik? dhe n? Europ?, ?sht? b?r? n? shekullin XII n? Spanjen muslimane. KHALIFA IBN AL MAHASIN nga Halebi (Aleppo) i Siris? m? 1860, shkroi nj? lib?r prej 564 faqesh n? t? cilin p?rshkruan dhe jep skica t? ndryshme t? instrumentave kirurgjike, duke p?rfshi 36 instrumenta p?r kirurgjin? e syve. Ai gjithashtu shqyrton lidhjet midis syrit dhe trurit. Shkruan edhe p?r 12 lloje t? operacioneve t? kataraktit. SALAHUDDIN IBN JUSUF nga Hammah (Siri) m? 1290, shkrou vepren "DRITA E SYVE", n? t? cil?n b?n fjal?, mbi teorin? optike t? t? pamunit. IBN HEITHEM (965-...) ishte i pari q? spjegoj se t? pamunit ?sht? i mund?suar p?r shkak t? p?rkthyerjes s? rrezeve t? drit?s.Q? nga viti 800 - 1300, bota Islame pati jo m? pak se 60 specjalist t? syve (me fam?). Autor? t? veprave dhe monografive, lidhur me oftalmologjin?, nd?rsa n? Europ? para shekullit XX, as q? ?sht? d?gjuar p?r ndonj? mjek t? syve.Sipas revist?s s? Asociacionit Amerikan t? Medicin?s (viti 1935), n? librarin? e Vatikanit, ?sht? nj? dor?shkrim nga Ibn Nefisi (...-1288) me titull: "KITABUL MUHAZ FI TIBB-IL AJN" (lib?r koreksionesh n? medicin?n e syve). Ky lib?r p?rmban p?rshkrimin e syve t? shtaz?ve dhe v?shtrimin lidhur me shum?llojshm?rin? e ngjyrave t? syve t? njeriut. Gerard Of Cremona Kaloj n? Toledo t? Spanj?s 40 vjet? (1147 - 1187),t? jet?s s? vet, duke p?rkthyer veprat e Ar-Raziut dhe Ibn Sinaut.Mjek?t arab ishin t? par?t q? parandalonin v?rbimin, q? nga viti 100 i er?s son?, kur Ar-Razi u b? mjeku i par? icili p?rshkrou veprimin refleksiv t? bebz?s s? syrit. Gjat? k?saj err?sire t? plot? n? Europen e Mesjet?s, ata (Musliman?t) i ndri?uan edhe pishtar?t e shkenc?s son? (oftalmologjis?) nga Gualdalkuviri (Spanj?), deri te Nili (Egjipt) dhe lumi Oxus (Rusi). Ata ishin mjeshtrit e vet?m t? oftalmologjis? n? Europen mesjetare (*12). AL RAZI (vdiq rreth vitit 930 pas Krishtit) qe m? i madhi i mjek?ve t? mesjet?s, dhe sh?rbeu p?r nj? koh? si mjeku kryesor? n? spitalin e madh t? Bagdadit. Al Raziu, n? europ? i njohur si Rrazes, shkroj 220 vepra medicionale, prej t? cilave edhe disa enciklopedi. Shum? prej tyre jan? p?rkthyer n? gjuh?n latine dhe jan? studjuar shekuj me radh? n? katedrat medicionale t? Europ?s. IBNI SINA (i njohur si AVICENA), si dhjet vje?ar? ka qen? hafiz i Kur'anit, kurse si shtatmb?dhjet? vje?ar? mjek. Ka shkruar shum? libra, por m? e r?nd?sishmja ?sht? "KANUNI". Kanuni ?sht? p?rkthyer n? disa gjuh?, nd?rsa vet?m n? gjuh?n latine ka p?rjetuar 15 botime, e vet?m nj? her? n? gjuh?n hebreje. M? shum? se 600 vjet?, "Kanuni" ka qen? baz? e studimeve medicionale n? Europ?. P?r Ibni Sinan?, Dr Taller thot?: "Njohja e tij e s?mundjeve t? psikogjenez?s, shkaqeve t? s?mundjeve psiqike dhe simpomofologjis? s? k?tyre s?mundjeve, simboleve t? g?zimeve psiqike, ja tejkalon larg asaj q? sot i di nj? mjek mesatar?. Ib?n Rushdi n? Shkenc?n Europjane, ?sht? radhitur n? radhen e filozof?ve m? t? mir? arab. Mbi t?, Ernest Renan ka shkruar nj? studim shum? t? mir? me titull "L'AVERROISME" 1852. Kjo ?sht? botuar n? veprat e zgjedhura t? E. Renanit me titull "OUVRES COMPLETES", t III1, 1-365 Paris 1949. Dubrovnikasi Nikola Vu?etiq ka shkruar nj? komentim mbi veprat e Averrosit, botuar n? Venedik m? 1580.(*13) ******************************************************** Sh?nimet: *1) DITURIA ISLAME 32/1991 *2. FUNK & WAGNALLS NEW ENCYCLOPEDIA Volumi i VII-t?. New York 1972 ` *3 .Po aty, faqe 97-98 *4. Alija Izetbegoviq ISLAM IZMEDU ISTOKA I ZAPADA *5 MUSLIM CONTRIBUTION TO SCIENCE *6. Po aty *7. Alija Izetbegoviq 'ISLAM IZMEDJU ISTOKA I ZAPADA *8. Op. Cit n? DITURIA ISLAME 55/1994 *9.KONTRIBUTI I MUSLIMAN?VE NE SHKENCE nga Abdulhalim Muntanis *10. Nafis Ahmad: MUSLIM CONTRIBUTION TO SCIENCE Lahore, 1972 *11Sarton:: INTRODUCTION OF HISTORY OF SCIENCE Volumi i par?, faqe 621 *12 ISLAMI ESHTE DITURI DHE KULTURE Sh. Ahmeti botuar n? EDUKATA ISLAME, Nr.1, Prishtin? 1971 *13. Dituria Islame ********************************** FUND Hajrudin S. Muja